Grass and its greenness
SpiritTroll
grass is not green at lot, one begins to wonder if any of that type of
thinking matters. Maybe all that really matters is I experience grass and I
like it.
Everything from the way the blades twist. The light shining through giving
texture and nuance. Chewing on the fleshy and sweet tender middle core. The
tiny flowers on the end of stalks piroquetting in the gentle breeze.
Maybe thats what is really important that the grass and I experience each
other without any labels or need to understand more than I like the grass
and maybe the grass likes me. If only I could be wider and just tell go more
I think things would be better.
--
"To me, Dejah Thoris was all that was perfect; all that was virtuous and
beautiful and noble and good."
John Carter - Edgar Rice Burroughs
toto
<angry...@home.com> wrote:
>So in thinking more about why I think grass is green and then realizing
>grass is not green at lot, one begins to wonder if any of that type of
>thinking matters. Maybe all that really matters is I experience grass and I
>like it.
>
>Everything from the way the blades twist. The light shining through giving
>texture and nuance. Chewing on the fleshy and sweet tender middle core. The
>tiny flowers on the end of stalks piroquetting in the gentle breeze.
>
>Maybe thats what is really important that the grass and I experience each
>other without any labels or need to understand more than I like the grass
>and maybe the grass likes me. If only I could be wider and just tell go more
>I think things would be better.
Would it really matter even if you didn't like *everything* about
the grass, Mark?
Dorothy
There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
source unknown
SpiritTroll
> the grass, Mark?
Probably not. I'm sure there are quite a few things I don't like.
It strikes me as a bit odd that in a ng about recovery I talk about grass
and whether it is green or not.
It's just I was taught (conditioned ?) to see things from such a wrong
perspective and it has taken me so long to find my own perspective.
Sometimes I feel I have to explore this new way of *seeing* at the deepest
possible levels.
Not sure if that makes any sense. Sometimes when I click into a new concept
I get carried away with it.
--
"The less doubler I get, the more me-er I become"
AngryTroll
zeldagl...@poopsprings.com
what it's there for.
polly wog
"SpiritTroll" <angry...@home.com> wrote:
:-)> Would it really matter even if you didn't like *everything* about
:-)> the grass, Mark?
:-)
:-)
:-)Probably not. I'm sure there are quite a few things I don't like.
:-)
:-)It strikes me as a bit odd that in a ng about recovery I talk about grass
:-)and whether it is green or not.
:-)
:-)It's just I was taught (conditioned ?) to see things from such a wrong
:-)perspective and it has taken me so long to find my own perspective.
:-)Sometimes I feel I have to explore this new way of *seeing* at the deepest
:-)possible levels.
:-)
:-)Not sure if that makes any sense. Sometimes when I click into a new concept
:-)I get carried away with it.
:-)
:-)
:-)--
:-)"The less doubler I get, the more me-er I become"
:-)AngryTroll
:-)
:-)
and the greatest of these is love
toto
<angry...@home.com> wrote:
>> Would it really matter even if you didn't like *everything* about
>> the grass, Mark?
>
>
>Probably not. I'm sure there are quite a few things I don't like.
>
I don't know... I kinda thought you might be thinking metaphorically
and that the metaphor could apply to people...
>It strikes me as a bit odd that in a ng about recovery I talk about grass
>and whether it is green or not.
>
>It's just I was taught (conditioned ?) to see things from such a wrong
>perspective and it has taken me so long to find my own perspective.
>Sometimes I feel I have to explore this new way of *seeing* at the deepest
>possible levels.
>
>Not sure if that makes any sense. Sometimes when I click into a new concept
>I get carried away with it.
I think it's kind of cool, myself... I enjoy your posts even if you
think they are off-topic..
SpiritTroll
> and that the metaphor could apply to people...
Me ?! Think metaphorically ... No ....
/me thinks Panther is not the only one that is sarcastic
Alot of things that I 'toss' here are metaphors .... For some reason that
makes the ideas more real to me. Somethings are hard to put into concrete
terms.
I had not been thinking about the grass as a metaphor for human contact. I
really was thinking about grass and the nature of 'seeing' .. maybe more
about the nature of 'interpretting'
but yes this idea applies to people as well. Perhaps more so in that people
are more complex than grass.
SpiritTroll
Much of what you wrote is similar to my experiences lately about cognition
of the world around us.
It is easy to put labels on things and accept the label as the truth. But
this often fails or denys us the pleasure of true interaction.
You are right I think too about us seeing the archetypes in people;
Father, Mother, Lover, Enemy ... whatever they are ... getting past labels
seems important ... because the labels can often hide or deny the truth..
--
"It seems we are all but drops in the great ocean of humanity, but some of
the drops do sparkle Pelli, some of them DO sparkle"
King Arthur - Lerner & Lowe
Andy
"Greg" <gre...@asarian-host.org> wrote in message
news:2000070603...@asarian-host.org...
<snip>
>
> I don't think you were in #cave when I was talking, some time ago, about
> changing my way of 'seeing' the maple tree next door. In short, I used to
> 'see' really nothing more than the label "tree", with location information
> and attributes like "shade" and "can't walk through" attached to it. I
mean
> quite literally, a label.
Yes, Greg, I think every single one of us has limitations on our
perceptions, what we can see and what we can't, based upon what
developmentalists call 'salience' -- the meaning of external things for us.
With this comes the lack of consciousness or awareness of other attributes
or dimensions -- we can't see it, but we aren't aware that we are missing
something.
>
> To describe this from another direction: At the optomotrist, I must be
very
> careful NOT to exercise this skill on the visionchart. Somewhere near the
> limit of my vision I start to use a sophisticated set of filters, so that
I
> can distinguish, for example, "F" from "P" - even though my eyes cannot
> physically see through my astigmatism. The filters are completely
> unconscious and not deliberately employed. It is a wonderful skill for
> reading, but counterproductive for measuring the optics.
>
> Getting back to the tree, one day after considerable effort, I was able to
> see the true image of that tree: the numerous patches of different colours
> instead the abstract label. Like keeping a bicycle upright, I guess, a lot
> of semi-random stuff happened in my head until I recognized and latched on
> to the result I wanted. I still normally see labels; but I CAN, if I pause
> and will it, 'see' true images.
I know what you're getting at. I'd like to add that there are more
attributes to the tree than its visual image, of course, and that we can
perceive it with all five senses, but still not perceive the whole truth of
the tree. If you attempt a still-life, or water-colour impression, this can
reveal yet more to you about your perception of the tree.
>
> I have since learned that it is quite common for depressed people to have
> no or few visual-image memories. I haven't studied Jung so I don't know
how
> accurate this is: In Robertson Davies, 'The Manticore', a Jungian analyst
> proposes the theory that we rarely see people clearly. Instead, we see the
> archetypes, the roles,
> we assign to people. I suppose we do exactly the same for
> situations and relationships. It is a wonderful skill for
> navigating a modern city where one will literally never again see most of
> those we encounter. But counterproductive to meeting and relating to real
> persons.
Yes, this again suggests the notion of salience. That's why so many people
ask a stranger what they work at, what car they drive etc., so that they
have some archetype (or stereotype) from which to base their judgment.
Problems arise when we react to real people as though they really were the
role or the stereotype we have created in our minds. I visualise this as
having a sort of 'hedgehog' in my head, where all the spines are the things
I know about them. The more I know, the more the spines become a texture, a
real entity, rather than just a poor sketch, a skeletal thing; too poor to
base any accurate judgments upon. The hedgehog does have a correlation to
brain structures, where the dendrytes and synapses etc, actually alter in
their structure when new perceptions are made.
>
> For me, whatever it is I do to trees is very similar to what I do to
> people, in rapportorial as well as physical senses. That is, I can pause
> and will the filters out of the way. I'm finding that there are several
> layers. I'm finding people 'feel' very different.
>
> For now, I am concentration on learning to switch my filters on and off
> smoothly.
Interesting contribution, Greg.
Andy.
SpiritTroll
> ask a stranger what they work at, what car they drive etc., so that they
> have some archetype (or stereotype) from which to base their judgment.
> Problems arise when we react to real people as though they really were the
> role or the stereotype we have created in our minds. I visualise this as
> having a sort of 'hedgehog' in my head, where all the spines are the
things
> I know about them. The more I know, the more the spines become a texture,
a
> real entity, rather than just a poor sketch, a skeletal thing; too poor to
> base any accurate judgments upon. The hedgehog does have a correlation to
> brain structures, where the dendrytes and synapses etc, actually alter in
> their structure when new perceptions are made.
Yeah ... I have converted a few people into hedgehogs recently... They
deserve it ... for being mean to me...
And hedgehogs they will remain until they are just forgotten ...
Oh about a few months back (in a somewhat manic phase) when I met people I
would ask them "unorthodox" questions to get to know them;
Do you like butterflies ?
What is your favourite butterfly ?
Do you feel tranquil in the mist ?
Stuff like that .. no freakin' pedantic archetype questions;
Next time someone asks you what you do ? Don't tell them about your job..
Tell them you like to dance, sing, read stories to your niece ... its fun !
But people react strangely to it.
spike
society or ourselves. I can perceive sound as touch or feeling, being tone deaf
to tune the guitar (with a tuning fork) it all done by touch. When the strings
resonate together they are in tune you can feel only one sound from two strings.
I bet there are tons of other things like that. We perceive stuff like we are
programed to, it can change.
The one thing i would like to have experienced is the tasting color and smelling
sound that some ppl report having tried lsd.
spike
Andy wrote:
> Yes, this again suggests the notion of salience. That's why so many people
> ask a stranger what they work at, what car they drive etc., so that they
> have some archetype (or stereotype) from which to base their judgment.
> Problems arise when we react to real people as though they really were the
> role or the stereotype we have created in our minds. I visualise this as
> having a sort of 'hedgehog' in my head, where all the spines are the things
> I know about them. The more I know, the more the spines become a texture, a
> real entity, rather than just a poor sketch, a skeletal thing; too poor to
> base any accurate judgments upon. The hedgehog does have a correlation to
> brain structures, where the dendrytes and synapses etc, actually alter in
> their structure when new perceptions are made.
>
> >
james monroe dooley
that). here's my simple take. i love grass. even with weeds. i only get
a few of the weeds by pulling them, or throwing a lesser amount of weed
killer than recommeded. people say to me, "why tiktok, do you cut your
grass so often?" they really take their lawns seriously and seem to
suffer for me, thinking i am trying too hard or something. first of all
i have a simple push mower i bought for next to nothing. it has for over
seven years, cut acres of grass, literally. i used it on five acres when
my friend's riding mower continuously lost its belts. furthermore, i
think cutting grass more frequently helps it grow, and is easier on me
and the life of the mower. i know painting grass, as in art, is a true
skill. i wish i took time to paint. watercolor is so instant in
technique (but i hear this is changing with more advanced art products).
but basically, i love to cut grass, and watch it grow. i don't know why
i like to spend time with it, i even choose to walk on it, instead of
using sidewalks. thanks, tiktok
banshee
do ya wear shoes when ya walk on it? If not, do ya look
down and only step forward after the targeted section has
been carefully examined?
I always examine what's about to be tickling my toes very,
very carefully.
jean
SpiritTroll
Do you have a garden too ?
I so wish I had a garden .. it is my biggest long term goal to have my own
garden someday.. more than a house even...
I would convert the lawns to gardens .. just leaving a bit as walkways ...
--
SpiritTroll
Leader of the ThunderClan
spike
spike
spike
So that's it hun? Spikey or Spiketroll.
Well what's in a name.
Hope you are well,
spike
crisisgal wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> I believe you already have the name of Spiketroll. I thought you were a
> member.
>
> Bufordtroll
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: spike <sp...@asarian-host.org>
> Newsgroups: alt.abuse.recovery
> Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 12:36 AM
> Subject: Re: Grass and its greenness
>
> > So can like just any one join this ThunderClan? spike SpiritTroll wrote:
> >
> > > Hi TikTok,
> > >
> > > Do you have a garden too ?
> > >
> > > I so wish I had a garden.. it is my biggest long term goal to have my
> > > own garden someday.. more than a house even...
> > >
> > > I would convert the lawns to gardens.. just leaving a bit as walkways
> ..
>
> > > --
> > > SpiritTroll Leader of the ThunderClan
>
> --
> For more information about this posting service, contact:
> he...@asarian-host.org -- for all info about our server.
> If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page:
>
> http://asarian-host.org/emailform.html
SpiritTroll
>
> both original spikes. :-)
>
> > Well what's in a name.
>
>
> We've got SpiritTroll, Saabitroll (second in command), AzziTroll,
> BufordTroll, EbbiTroll, BatTroll and I'm so sleepy that I know I'm leaving
> out half of the other Trolls.... I think there are like 14 trolls in all
> now. Trolls get free woggles... and have lots of fun 'specially when the
> benign dictator isn't there, cause I'm more fun of course. :-)
Of course! ...Benign dictator is too serious sometimes ...
Plus he is a little stiff about who gets OFFICIAL TROLL STATUS too. Its an
exclusive group ..there used to be only one ...I have to watch out or god
knows we might end up with undesireables in our midst which would ruin the
Clan and require my termination as leader.
spike
And he is taking you to do the paper work?
Take care,
spike
crisisgal wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> I am - going to bed. Buford has a vet appointment tomorrow, early.
>
> Then lunch with friends.
>
> Talk to you tomorrow.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: spike <sp...@asarian-host.org>
> Newsgroups: alt.abuse.recovery
> Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 1:56 AM
> Subject: Re: Grass and its greenness
>
> > Hi Crisis; So that's it hun? Spikey or Spiketroll. Well what's in a name.
> > Hope you are well, spike
> >
> > crisisgal wrote:
> >
> > > x-no-archive: yes
> > >
> > > I believe you already have the name of Spiketroll. I thought you were a
> > > member.
> > >
> > > Bufordtroll
> > >
>
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: spike <sp...@asarian-host.org>
>
> > > Newsgroups: alt.abuse.recovery
> > > Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 12:36 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Grass and its greenness
>
> > > > So can like just any one join this ThunderClan? spike SpiritTroll
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi TikTok,
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you have a garden too ?
> > > > >
> > > > > I so wish I had a garden.. it is my biggest long term goal to have
> > > > > my own garden someday.. more than a house even...
> > > > >
> > > > > I would convert the lawns to gardens.. just leaving a bit as
> > > > > walkways..
> > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > SpiritTroll Leader of the ThunderClan
>
spike
i miss the old daze when i was just poor little spike.
take care,
spike
womanchild wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> > Hi Crisis; So that's it hun? Spikey or Spiketroll.
>
> Well.... I like them both... Spikey and SpikeTroll.... of course they are
> both original spikes. :-)
>
> > Well what's in a name.
>
> Huh??? "What's in a name"???
>
> We've got SpiritTroll, Saabitroll (second in command), AzziTroll,
> BufordTroll, EbbiTroll, BatTroll and I'm so sleepy that I know I'm leaving
> out half of the other Trolls.... I think there are like 14 trolls in all
> now. Trolls get free woggles... and have lots of fun 'specially when the
> benign dictator isn't there, cause I'm more fun of course. :-)
>
> Oh... the other good thing about trollhood!! We don't have to worry about
> correct spelling and all because we are allowed to
> make up spellings as we go along. BUT, we can still fine
> non-Trolls. (I was the one who put that in the official
> charter.) :-)
>
> > Hope you are well,
>
> Me too BufordTroll and you too spikey aka SpikeTroll,
>
> SaabiTroll
zeldagl...@poopsprings.com
what I do!
polly wog
"SpiritTroll" <angry...@home.com> wrote:
:-)> Yes, this again suggests the notion of salience. That's why so many people
:-)> ask a stranger what they work at, what car they drive etc., so that they
:-)> have some archetype (or stereotype) from which to base their judgment.
:-)> Problems arise when we react to real people as though they really were the
:-)> role or the stereotype we have created in our minds. I visualise this as
:-)> having a sort of 'hedgehog' in my head, where all the spines are the
:-)things
:-)> I know about them. The more I know, the more the spines become a texture,
:-)a
:-)> real entity, rather than just a poor sketch, a skeletal thing; too poor to
:-)> base any accurate judgments upon. The hedgehog does have a correlation to
:-)> brain structures, where the dendrytes and synapses etc, actually alter in
:-)> their structure when new perceptions are made.
:-)
:-)
:-)Yeah ... I have converted a few people into hedgehogs recently... They
:-)deserve it ... for being mean to me...
:-)And hedgehogs they will remain until they are just forgotten ...
:-)
:-)Oh about a few months back (in a somewhat manic phase) when I met people I
:-)would ask them "unorthodox" questions to get to know them;
:-)
:-)Do you like butterflies ?
:-)What is your favourite butterfly ?
:-)Do you feel tranquil in the mist ?
:-)
:-)Stuff like that .. no freakin' pedantic archetype questions;
:-)
:-)Next time someone asks you what you do ? Don't tell them about your job..
:-)Tell them you like to dance, sing, read stories to your niece ... its fun !
:-)But people react strangely to it.
:-)
:-)
:-)--
:-)"It seems we are all but drops in the great ocean of humanity, but some of
:-)the drops do sparkle Pelli, some of them DO sparkle"
:-)King Arthur - Lerner & Lowe
:-)
:-)
spike
Yeah that's what i'm trying to say. And also and perhaps especially when we
look at non earthly phenomena. If we do perceive on more levels we get more
info and can make better decisions. Know that saying, sleep on it? Many times i
have been struggling with problems and getting no where so i pack it in and the
next day usually very fast i fix the problem maybe i dreamed about it and
forgot or i'm in a different frame of mind i dunno but about 90% of the time it
works.
Yeah it's true and you get an endorphin release that can't be beat. If you just
immerse yourself into music, like if i play the guitar steady for two or three
hours after a point, i'm buzzed, but trance is a better word. Only the next
time you try for this, it takes longer and longer, that could explain bruce
springstien's (sp) 7 hour shows. It's like a water well you must go deeper and
deeper in the well to get the water. I will often go someplace where no one can
interrupt me because you can be distracted and have to start over. But i can
get a very good natural buzz after several hours of playing. It's true, and
neat.
I have heard music is just naturally flowing through space/time. And the person
just taps into or feels it. The same raw creative energy that can create a
classical song can be used to created a rock song. Some thing like that.
Take care,
spike
Greg wrote:
> So, if we refuse to ignore what we have been taught to ignore, we find
> other ways to accomplishing the same ends. I have often had the impression
> that musicians tuning their instruments were both listening and feeling.
> Maybe, if we can program ourselves several different ways to perceiving the
> same thing, we can get a truer understanding.
>
> I have observed musicians, and dancers, go into a trance-state. They seem
> no longer to "hear" the music, but somehow become much closer to it. They
> say they "become the music" or "become the voice of God". Certainly, they
> loosen the usual boundaries, they become free from formal timing and
> harmonic rules. Often it is awe inspiring.
>
> Greg
>
> spike wrote:
>
> > That could be true with the limitations, but for the most part the
> > imposed by society or ourselves. I can perceive sound as touch or
> > feeling, being tone deaf to tune the guitar (with a tuning fork) it all
> > done by touch. When the strings resonate together they are in tune you
> > can feel only one sound from two strings. I bet there are tons of other
> > things like that. We perceive stuff like we are programed to, it can
> > change.
> >
> > The one thing I would like to have experienced is the tasting color and
> > > Yes, this again suggests the notion of salience. That's why so many
> > > people ask a stranger what they work at, what car they drive etc., so
> > > that they have some archetype (or stereotype) from which to base their
> > > judgment. Problems arise when we react to real people as though they
> > > really were the role or the stereotype we have created in our minds. I
> > > visualise this as having a sort of 'hedgehog' in my head, where all the
> > > spines are the things I know about them. The more I know, the more the
> > > spines become a texture, a real entity, rather than just a poor sketch,
> > > a skeletal thing; too poor to base any accurate judgments upon. The
> > > hedgehog does have a correlation to brain structures, where the
> > > dendrytes and synapses etc, actually alter in their structure when new
> > > perceptions are made.
> > > >
> > > > For me, whatever it is I do to trees is very similar to what I do to
> > > > people, in rapportorial as well as physical senses. That is, I can
> > > > pause and will the filters out of the way. I'm finding that there are
> > > > several layers. I'm finding people 'feel' very different.
> > > >
> > > > For now, I am concentration on learning to switch my filters on and
> > > > off smoothly.
> > >
> > > Interesting contribution, Greg.
> > >
> > > Andy.
>
> --
> Not a few who wanted to drive out their devil
> have themselves entered into swine. Zarathustra
Andy
"Greg" <gre...@asarian-host.org> wrote in message
news:2000070804...@asarian-host.org...
> Hi, Andy,
>
> Andy wrote: <much snippage>
>
> > Yes, Greg, I think every single one of us has limitations on our
> > perceptions, what we can see and what we can't, based upon what
> > developmentalists call 'salience'
>
> Which is another label. 8)
Quite right, it's a label. It's a name for an attribute of 'something' in a
model of the 'real' thing. when (good) scientists use labels, they are aware
that they have not defined the phenomenon, but simply tagged it for further
exploration.
As your next comment indicates, there are lots of people who are not all
that good scientists, and who mistake the model for the phenomenon. Medical
models of disease are inappropriate in many therapeutic situations, imho. In
their defence, I would say that medical ppl. do not have the freedom
scientists have to experiment with so many different models, and are
constrained by medical ethics and conventions from straying far from
established practices, however unsatisfactory.
> I find I have a remarkable ability to label processes and think I have
> thereby solved them. The joke about the engineer, the physicist, and the
> mathematician comes to mind. Then there are all those therapists with
their
> DSM who are no help, or are even harmful, to survivors
>
> > If you attempt a still-life, or water-colour impression, this can reveal
> > yet more to you about your perception of the tree.
>
> My paintings are still very much in the abstract-real style of the
Canadian
> Lawren S Harris. I have until recently assumed that was due to my
> (physical) visual impairment. But I have also felt the attraction of his
> later, Transendentalist, abstracts.. I am disquieted over that.
Oh, didn't realise you were yourself an artist, Greg! (I'm not). Sorry to
say I haven't even heard of Lawren S. Harris, or seen any of his paintings
I'm aware of. In referring to still-lifes, I was recalling my attempt to
capture everyday objects on paper, when my repeated failures to manage it
were most revealing to me. Having to knock down whole layers of conceptual
and perceptual obstacles meant I had to start from even before scratch (if
you catch my drift) before anything I put down gave me any satisfaction. I
feel sure you will already be familiar with this process, if you can
remember so far back! But why are you disquieted by your attraction to a
particular style?
> > Yes, this again suggests the notion of salience. That's why so many
> > people ask a stranger what they work at, what car they drive etc., so
> > that they have some archetype (or stereotype) from which to base their
> > judgment.
>
> These are valuable clues to the personality, especially in an
> employment/consumerist economy. And it is suspect to ask what people do in
> their "spare" or private time.
I suppose that's true. I would question whether, in fact, these snippets of
info reveal very much of the personality, but they do narrow down the
infinite possibilities to something more manageable. I don't know if it's
suspect to ask people what they do in their private lives -- I suppose you
mean, upon first meeting?
>
> I wonder what results Mark (SpiritTroll) obtains in his efforts to break
> this convention. I wonder, too, that it might be worth the disapproval of
> the hundred people whom I will have no real contact with if it might
reveal
> the one who is as hungry as I to blather about Euripides.
But you just never know...there are limitless numbers of possible answers to
SpititTroll's questions, and only some will be disapproving, but they will
all reveal something. Don't know if you are making the same point, but of
course, we all want to talk about topics that interest us, without
necessarily desiring to bond only with Euripides monomaniacs (perish the
thought -- not to say that someone who devoted their entire life to the
scholarly study of his work may not be an exciting, well-rounded person, of
course!) But again, Euripides, in the sense you have mentioned him, is no
more than a label, just as the styles or schools of painting you referred
to. I have no idea what Euripides means to you, or Lawren S Harris, or yet
Transcendentalism. Each might be an exciting exploration, or a dull,
unengaging and unproductive exchange. What do these things mean to you,
Greg?
>
> > I visualise this as having a sort of 'hedgehog' in my head, where all
the
> > spines are the things I know about them.
>
> Mark twigged to this too. Who, really, is the hedgehog?
If this is not a rhetorical question, I'd say the 'hedgehog', as I spoke
about it, is a label for a mental model (which is a real thing) of a real
person. It isn't a person, although it has correlations/mappings with the
person it models. R.D. Laing once wrote about a curious type of conversation
between four 'people' (two real, the other two being the mental models each
has about the other) where the most painful confusions arise when the
different combinations of the four try to communicate with each other.
I'd be interested to hear more of your views on perception, modelling, Art,
and of course Euripides, Greg.
Andy.
>
> Greg
james monroe dooley
conventions
"'whew'"
Jean...i wear shoes. always, my shoes find the dogs' deliveries, and my
bare toes find the bees. green grass can be pretty, but its rough going
sometimes. tiktok (a careful ticker)
SpiritTroll
to
> SpititTroll's questions, and only some will be disapproving, but they will
> all reveal something.
Yes ... the exploration speaks more of the observer than the observed most
of the time. But I have stared at grass and trees for a lifetime now. I see
more in them all the time. I'm not sure if the trees have changed so much
but I bet I have. I am of the opinion that there is an objective truth to be
had and when my subjective interpretation of that objective truth get closer
together then that is when the 'magic' happens. I think this process gets
deeper and deeper all the time I am not sure if there is an ultimate end to
it all ... Being that the universe is so big and all, I am sure there will
be enough to fill my lifetime.