The Saga of the South Carolina Clinic Regulation Act
nyi...@bellsouth.net
_Life and Learning XV: Proceedings of the Fifteenth
University Faculty for Life Conference, 2005_,
ed. by Joseph W. Koterski, S.J., copyright 2006
by University Faculty for Life, 120 North Building,
Georgetown University, Washington, D. C. 20057
ISSN 1097-0878
The usual "fair use" and anti-plagiarism rules apply.
This first post only gives the brief introduction; the rest will be
posted in installments to this thread. To the introduction might be
added: the story continued until 2003, when the regulations finally
went into effect.
The Saga of the South Carolina Abortion Clinic Regulation Act
by Peter Nyikos
Professor of Mathematics
University of South Carolina
Pro-life laws, even if successfully enacted, usually have a long and
eventful history, complete with long court battles.
The South Carolina Abortion Clinic Regulation Act is an especially
striking example.
It was signed into law back in January of 1995, but its story
goes back to at least five years earlier and over eight years later,
and is full of unexpected twists and turns.
nyi...@bellsouth.net
So far, I have been able to trace the saga back to the 1989-90
legislative sessions, when the pro-life movement scored its first real
victory with a parental consent law. It was signed by then-Governor
Carroll Campbell on March 1, 1990. The same day, an informed consent
law finally was approved by a subcommittee of the SC House, far too
late to have any hope of passage in that session [1]. [Sessions last
little more than five months each year, and bills have to make it all
the way through both houses of the Legislature in two sessions. After
each election, they have to be introduced as if they were new bills.]
If memory serves, there was also a clinic regulation bill floating
around somewhere in the Senate,
but making even less progress. Large parts of both bills were
destined eventually to become part of the Abortion Clinic Regulation
Act, but they had a rocky road ahead. The informed consent bill, for
example, had the
kinds of provisions (waiting period, fetal development information,
information on alternatives to abortion and hazards of abortion) that
were destined to be declared constitutional in *Casey v. Planned
Parenthood*, but that never stopped the abortion rights proponents
from using all kinds of legislative tricks to stall such bills.
The informed consent bill was re-introduced in the House in the
1991-92 sessions, but public attention was mostly drawn towards a far
more dramatic bill introduced by SC Representative David Beasley,
later to become Governor
of South Carolina (1995-1998). This, the Human Life Protection Act,
would have banned all abortion except to save the mother's life.
These were heady days for the pro-life movement, in the wake of the
watershed 1989 Supreme
Court decision, *Webster v. Reproductive Health Services*, when it
seemed to many as though one more Supreme Court decision might consign
*Roe v. Wade* to the dustbin of history.
The Beasley Bill, as it was widely called, was eventually voted down
by the House Judiciary Committee. The informed consent bill was held
up for a long time, until the pro-life lobbyists learned that the
opposition was
afraid that the Beasley Bill would be tacked on as an amendment. Once
the pro-life legislators and lobbyists agreed not to propose such an
amendment, the bill was soon brought to the floor of the House and
passed by a three-fourths majority despite the insistence of abortion-
rights lobbyists that it was ``unconstitutional''. Too much time had
gone by, however, and it only made it through one Senate subcommittee
hearing before the session was over,
and he whole process had to be started from scratch after the 1992
Fall elections.
Reference:
[1] _Greenville News_, March 1, 1990, p. 1C
nyi...@bellsouth.net
1. Early Precursors [Continued]
Two who testified during the House and Senate in 1991-92 were destined
to play prominent roles in South Carolina. Lisa van Riper, a
spokeswoman for the Upstate Coalition for Life, would be appointed by
Governor Beasley to head up the nationally award-winning South
Carolina program, Putting Families First, 1995 through 1998. She is
now
President of South Carolina Citizens for Life, the state affiliate of
National Right to Life.
Ironically enough, Beasley also appointed a lobbyist for the mis-named
abortion rights group, South Carolina Family Research Foundation, to a
prominent educational committee, apparently forgetting who she was.
This lobbyist, Inez Tenenbaum, was to use this post as a springboard
for a successful campaign to be the State Superintendent of Schools
and then made a strong run for the United States Senate in 2004,
garnering more votes than Kerry did against Bush but still losing to
Jim DeMint. Tenenbaum might well have won were it not for her extreme
views on, and active lobbying against, the informed consent bills of
both 1989-1990 and 1991-92. Already on March 1, 1990, she was quoted
as calling the informed consent bill ``a blatantly unconstitutional''
effort to ``heighten [a woman's]
anxiety and subject her to more stress.''[2]
One lesson to be learned from this is how important it is to keep
track of who the lobbyists for abortion are. One scenario that
occurred to me in 2004 was Beasley winning the Republican primary for
Senate [he actually got a plurality, but lost to Jim DeMint in the
runoff] and then being defeated by Tenenbaum [who had no real
opposition for
the Democratic nomination] in November. This would have been a
perfect illustration of the Aesop fable of the eagle who, on being
shot down by hunters, noticed that the arrow had been tipped with some
of its own feathers.
Spartakus
> Ironically enough, Beasley also appointed a lobbyist for the mis-named
> abortion rights group, South Carolina Family Research Foundation, to a
> prominent educational committee, apparently forgetting who she was.
> This lobbyist, Inez Tenenbaum,
played a significant role in raising South Carolina's ranking in
average SAT scores from 50th to 18th. President-elect Obama had her
on his short list as a candidate for Secretary of Education. Governor
Beasley seems to have appreciated her skills and ability enough to
overlook her politics. Would that other chief executives could have
been so perceptive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inez_Tenenbaum
Ya heerd of weekeepeedeeah, turkey?
nyi...@bellsouth.net
The outlook for the clinic regulation bill seemed even more bleak, to
judge from a July 19, 1992 article in _The State_, Columbia's only
major daily newspaper. It said that the Department of Health and
Environmental control [DHEC] had recommended regulations, but "the
report never went further than the agency. ... The reason? DHEC,
like other agencies, didn't think it had the authority to make clinics
a priority.''
But the turning point was just four months away. Ironically, we may
have the callousness of the late Dr. Jesse Johnce Floyd, the
notorious Columbia abortionist who ran several enormously successful
Ladies' Clinics, to thank for the fact that the bill made it through
the State Legislature in 1993-94.
Floyd gained national notoriety many years ago in a case that was
taken all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. Of that famous case,
there is an account in _Abortion: the Silent Holocaust_ [3]:
In the summer of 1974, the liberty to kill
[...] was given further legal sanction in
the case of Dr. Jesse T. [*sic*] Floyd,
of Columbia, South Carolina. Dr. Floyd
aborted what seemed to be a seven-month-old
baby. The mother of this child had paid
$250 for an abortion, and the abortion was
caused by an injection of prostaglandins.
The baby boy, marked for death, was born alive
and lived for twenty days. He apparently died
from injuries that were caused by the
prostaglandins.
The legal milestone of this case is that
the judge, Chief Circuit Judge Clement Haynsworth,
held Dr. Floyd innocent without trial. In his
judgment, Haynsworth assumed that the baby boy
who lived twenty days had not been a viable fetus
because he had not lived indefinitely.
Occasionally, one still hears claims that abortion history might have
been totally different, had Haynsworth's nomination to the Supreme
Court not been rejected by the Senate: this rejection was followed by
the elevation of Harry Blackmun to the Supreme Court. But this
bizarre ruling, coming after *Roe v. Wade*, suggests otherwise. It is
indeed doubtful that Haynsworth could have been any less pliant in the
hands of Justice Brennan, the real mastermind of the ruling in *Roe v.
Wade*, than Blackmun was.
Of course, the State of South Carolina appealed Haynsworth's bizarre
ruling to the United States Supreme Court, and on March 5, 1979, the
Supreme Court vacated the lower court ruling [4], criticizing
Haynsworth for misreading the Supreme Court rulings on the concept of
"viability." The case was remanded to South Carolina, where it "died"
not long thereafter due to the difficulty of obtaining witnesses, some
of whom had moved away in the intervening five years.
And yet, the baby boy did not die in vain. A 1980's article in _The
Philadelphia Inquirer_ related how this case ``chilled the climate"
for second and third trimester abortions in South Carolina. They
account for less than one percent of all South Carolina abortions,
while the nationwide figure is about ten percent. Similarly, the
deaths of numerous other victims of Floyd set in motion an odd chain
of events which led to the successful passage of the clinic
regulations.
References:
[3] By John Powell, S. J. Argus Communications, Allen, Texas, 1981,
ISBN 0-89505-063-3, p. 52
[4] *Anders v. Floyd*, 440 US 445. [i.e., _United States Reports_,
volume 440, article commencing on page 445.]
nyi...@bellsouth.net
> nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > Ironically enough, Beasley also appointed a lobbyist for the mis-named
> > abortion rights group, South Carolina Family Research Foundation, to a
> > prominent educational committee, apparently forgetting who she was.
> > This lobbyist, Inez Tenenbaum,
>
> played a significant role in raising South Carolina's ranking in
> average SAT scores from 50th to 18th.
Would that it were so! The 18th represents the *participation rate*
of students. Maine, with 100 percent participation, was dead last in
SAT scores of 50 states plus DC (which was included, but even it
topped Maine). South Carolina beat these two, but no other state.
>President-elect Obama had her
> on his short list as a candidate for Secretary of Education.
I wonder if he was fooled by the same Wikipedia article you were
fooled by.
> Governor Beasley seems to have appreciated her skills
>and ability enough to overlook her politics.
I doubt it. The story I was told was that somebody in his
congregation recommended her to Beasley and that person's word was
evidently good enough for him.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inez_Tenenbaum
You meant the following yokelish spelling in irony, but the irony is
on you:
> Ya heerd of weekeepeedeeah, turkey?
Yep, and I also know that it is not very reliable, and that footnotes
need to be checked out. I did so in the case of excommunication and
saw that it sent me to the official Vatican website. I did it again
now, and the linked USA Today article in Footnote 3 told me the real
story, which the turkey who wrote the article hilariously misread.
Thanks to you, I've created an account in Wikipedia and corrected the
error.
Peter Nyikos
Spartakus
> 2. The Great Catalyst
>
> The outlook for the clinic regulation bill seemed even more bleak, to
> judge from a July 19, 1992 article in _The State_, Columbia's only
> major daily newspaper. It said that the Department of Health and
> Environmental control [DHEC] had recommended regulations, but "the
> report never went further than the agency. ... The reason? DHEC,
> like other agencies, didn't think it had the authority to make clinics
> a priority.''
>
> But the turning point was just four months away. Ironically, we may
> have the callousness of the late Dr. Jesse Johnce Floyd, the
> notorious Columbia abortionist who ran several enormously successful
> Ladies' Clinics, to thank for the fact that the bill made it through
> the State Legislature in 1993-94.
>
> Floyd gained national notoriety many years ago in a case that was
> taken all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. Of that famous case,
> there is an account in _Abortion: the Silent Holocaust_ [3]:
Ah, so you are repeating lies and unfounded speculations that were
debunked some two months ago. That is more characteristic of a
polemicist, not a reasoner. Here is what I wrote at the time:
"And there lies the tipping point for this case.
The fetus (or neonate, if you prefer) survived for
20 days and even underwent surgery. There is no
way that Floyd was guilty of murder. At 22 weeks
gestational age, there is no way the fetus/neonate
would have survived more than a few days. If the
fetus/neonate was indeed at 28+ weeks gestational
age, it at least had a fighting chance. The fact that
it underwent surgery surely indicates that something
was seriously wrong.
"You don't have enough facts at your disposal to say
with reasonable certainty that Floyd was guilty of any
crime, let alone murder. Of course, your standards
may differ from that of the courts. That is often the
case for polemicists who claim to be reasoners.
Father Powell (author of Abortion: The Silent Holocaust) claimed that
the fetus/neonate may have died from injuries induce by
*prostaglandins*. What sort of injuries can prostaglandins inflict
that would be corrected by surgery?
> Occasionally, one still hears claims that abortion history might have
> been totally different, had Haynsworth's nomination to the Supreme
> Court not been rejected by the Senate: this rejection was followed by
> the elevation of Harry Blackmun to the Supreme Court. But this
> bizarre ruling, coming after *Roe v. Wade*, suggests otherwise.
Given the facts of the case and the law, it is the only ruling that
Haynsworth could hand down. Only a polemicist would call such a
ruling "bizarre".
One more thing - do you have any idea how offensive that book title is?
Spartakus
> Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > Ironically enough, Beasley also appointed a lobbyist for the mis-named
> > > abortion rights group, South Carolina Family Research Foundation, to a
> > > prominent educational committee, apparently forgetting who she was.
> > > This lobbyist, Inez Tenenbaum,
> > played a significant role in raising South Carolina's ranking in
> > average SAT scores from 50th to 18th.
> Would that it were so! The 18th represents the *participation rate*
> of students. Maine, with 100 percent participation, was dead last in
> SAT scores of 50 states plus DC (which was included, but even it
> topped Maine). South Carolina beat these two, but no other state.
That's still a significant achievement - it shows that more graduating
students are taking the SATs, which shows that more of them are
pursuing higher education. The average scores went up only a few
points. But on the other hand, the article says this:
"The College Board cautions against ranking states by
scores. The reason: Scores vary greatly by how many
students take the exam. The more who take it, the
lower the state's score is likely to be."
So any gains in average SAT scores appear to have been offset by
higher participation.
> >President-elect Obama had her
> > on his short list as a candidate for Secretary of Education.
> I wonder if he was fooled by the same Wikipedia article you were
> fooled by.
Sour grapes - my, my, my.
> > Governor Beasley seems to have appreciated her skills
> >and ability enough to overlook her politics.
> I doubt it. The story I was told was that somebody in his
> congregation recommended her to Beasley and that person's
> word was evidently good enough for him.
The story I was told was that Nyikos 2.0 molests small, defenseless
animals.
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inez_Tenenbaum
> You meant the following yokelish spelling in irony, but the irony is
> on you:
More sour grapes.
> > Ya heerd of weekeepeedeeah, turkey?
> Yep, and I also know that it is not very reliable, and that footnotes
> need to be checked out. I did so in the case of excommunication
> and saw that it sent me to the official Vatican website. I did it again
> now, and the linked USA Today article in Footnote 3 told me the real
> story, which the turkey who wrote the article hilariously misread.
It did show that your dismissive tone toward Ms. Tenenbaum was
entirely unwarranted.
> Thanks to you, I've created an account in Wikipedia and corrected
> the error.
I think that notice to the original author is generated whenever
someone edits a Wiki article. Have fun playing edit wars.
Ray Fischer
>On Jan 14, 10:29 pm, Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>> > Ironically enough, Beasley also appointed a lobbyist for the mis-named
>> > abortion rights group, South Carolina Family Research Foundation, to a
>> > prominent educational committee, apparently forgetting who she was.
>> > This lobbyist, Inez Tenenbaum,
>>
>> played a significant role in raising South Carolina's ranking in
>> average SAT scores from 50th to 18th.
>
>Would that it were so! The 18th represents the *participation rate*
>of students. Maine, with 100 percent participation, was dead last in
>SAT scores of 50 states plus DC (which was included, but even it
>topped Maine). South Carolina beat these two, but no other state.
Anybody with a background in math would know that it's easy to get a
high average score if you simply eliminate all of the low-scorers from
the testing.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
nyi...@bellsouth.net
2. The Great Catalyst (concluded)
>Similarly, the
> deaths of numerous other victims of Floyd set in motion an odd chain
> of events which led to the successful passage of the clinic
> regulations.
It began in November of 1992 when two employees of the Ladies Clinic
in Charleston filed reports with DHEC. The employees, Celeste Danish
and Lori Saunders, revealed that Jesse Floyd was using a kitchen
garbage disposal to grind up the bodies of aborted babies, some past
the 12th week of development, and flush these human remains into the
public water system.
Because SC state law did not regulate first trimester abortion
centers, DHEC's ability to investigate the workers' complaint was
limited to possible violations of the Hazardous Waste Management
Act. But Danish and Saunders also reported the goings-on to
Charleston's CBS affiliate Channel 2, which aired a three-part series
exposing the allegations against Floyd. A transcript is given in the
following section, featuring footage of one reporter attempting twice
to interview Floyd and being ordered off the property, and excerpts
from interviews with Saunders, Danish, a DHEC official, a State Health
Department official, and State Senator Glenn McConnell.
3. The I Team Reports
In this section, a transcript is given of most of three newscasts
given by the ``I Team,'' a team of Channel 2 (CBS-Charleston, SC)
reporters. The only things left out are irrelevant
general comments about the abortion issue, and repetitions of scenes
from earlier broadcasts. The first newscast began with two I Team
members, Leslie Lyles and Dan Ashley, in the studio speaking directly
into the camera.
Dan Ashley: Workers at a Lowcountry abortion clinic have stepped
forward to tell me horror stories about what they say is happening
inside an abortion doctor's clinic.
Leslie Lyles: Many of you have called concerned about the subject of
this report, so we want to warn you that some of what you will hear
may be upsetting.
Ashley: Now you will not see any graphic pictures, only hear
disturbing descriptions; but nonetheless you may want your children to
leave the room.
Lyles: Tonight Dan begins a special I Team investigation into the
Ladies' Clinic of Dr. Jesse Floyd.
Ashley: Dr. Floyd operates an abortion clinic on Rivers Avenue in
North Charleston. I want to make it very clear that this is not a
story about the issue of abortion, pro or con. This *is* a story about
shocking allegations made by former employees of Dr. Jesse Floyd.
[There followed a sequence on how controversial abortion is, featuring
news clips, after which came a scene showing Jesse Floyd entering the
Ladies' Clinic.]
Ashley, off-camera: For all sorts of reasons, women turn to the
Ladies' Clinic in North Charleston to end their pregnancies. The
clinic is operated by Dr. Jesse Floyd, a Columbia-based gynecologist.
Every Wednesday and Friday afternoon, he drives to Charleston to
operate his clinic and to perform abortions.
NEXT: THE INTERVIEWS IN THE FIRST PROGRAM
Spartakus
> It began in November of 1992 when two employees of the Ladies Clinic
> in Charleston filed reports with DHEC. The employees, Celeste Danish
> and Lori Saunders, revealed that Jesse Floyd was using a kitchen
> garbage disposal to grind up the bodies of aborted babies, some past
> the 12th week of development, and flush these human remains into the
> public water system.
Maybe my memory is failing me, but isn't Jesse Floyd *dead*. It
sounds like he wasn't a good doctor, but what is the point of exhuming
his story?
nyi...@bellsouth.net
Channel 2 (Charleston) we come to the actual interviews by Channel 2
reporter Dan Ashley of the two women who reported certain events in
the Ladies' Clinic in Charleston. The rest of this post is taken from
my Copyright 2005 article in _Life and Learning XV_.]
Ashley, in voice-over:
Lori Saunders says she worked for Dr. Floyd for about a year. She
says she started as a lab technician but ended up working in the
termination rooms, where the abortions are done. It was back in those
two termination rooms that Lori says she saw things that disturbed
her.
Ashley, speaking to Lori:
Tell me about the way the, the, the fetuses were disposed of
dur...after the abortion.
Saunders: They put it in a colander just like you'd strain your rice,
and swish it around and put it down a disposal and turn this disposal
on.
Ashley, in voice-over: Lori says the disposal wasn't any sort of
special equipment, but an ordinary garbage disposal like you have in
your home.
Saunders: It wasn't as bad when it was just, like, tissues and stuff.
But when it got to be bones and stuff and it was, like...that's what
really turned me against it.
Ashley: Describe what you've seen.
Saunders: I've seen a leg about as big as my pinkie, and a little tiny
foot on the end of it. And that kind of, like, really did it for me.
That was it. I couldn't take any more after that.
Ashley, in voice-over: Lori says that shortly after that, she quit
working at the Ladies' Clinic.
[Cut to an interview with Celeste Danish.]
Ashley: Just so people understand, this is not something you, you've
heard happened.
Danish: No, it's something I saw; something I did myself.
Ashley, in voice-over: Celeste Danish said she quit her job at the
Ladies Clinic this summer, after only working there for a month.
Ashley, to Danish: Tell me what you do after the abortion.
Danish: Hand the doctor the jug with what was taken out of...the
female. He'd dump it in a strainer and he'd look, and he'd dump it in
the garbage disposal, and then he'd leave the room and I'd turn the
garbage disposal on, and rinse out the jugs and everything.
[Cut to a scene showing the Ladies' Clinic, with Ashley narrating in
the foreground.]
Celeste says one day while working in the Ladies' clinic she saw
something that was the last straw. She says she was flushing an
aborted fetus down the disposal when she recognized what was a fetus's
leg. That was the day she quit.
[Return to interview with Danish]
Ashley, in voice-over: Celeste says she used to work at an abortion
clinic in Massachusetts.
Ashley, to Danish: They did not put the fetal tissue down the garbage
disposal.
Danish: No, no, not at all. Nothing went down the garbage disposal.
Especially not anything contaminated with blood or body fluids.
NEXT: An unsuccessful attempt to interview Dr. Floyd himself.
nyi...@bellsouth.net
Your recollection is correct, and the point is, without the events
narrated here, South Carolina might not have any clinic regulation
act. And that includes such things as the woman being told at what
stage her pregnancy is at, along with other things mentioned in an
earlier post.
Peter Nyikos
nyi...@bellsouth.net
employees of Jesse Floyd. Now comes an attempted interview with Floyd
himself. Recall that Dan Ashley is one of the two reporters covering
this story for Charleston's CBS affiliate Channel 2. Just before the
interviews with the two women, my article had:
> Ashley, off-camera: For all sorts of reasons, women turn to the
> Ladies' Clinic in North Charleston to end their pregnancies. The
> clinic is operated by Dr. Jesse Floyd, a Columbia-based gynecologist.
> Every Wednesday and Friday afternoon, he drives to Charleston to
> operate his clinic and to perform abortions.
[...]
Ashley: We wanted to ask Dr. Floyd about some of the allegations being
made about how he runs his abortion clinic. He didn't want to talk to
us.
Ashley, walking up to Jesse Floyd:
Dr. Floyd! I'm with Channel 2 here in Charleston. I wonder if I could
ask you a question.
Jesse Floyd, walking away:
No-o-o-o-o! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Ashley, following him:
Why do you dispose of fetuses in the sink?
Floyd, walking into the clinic and slamming the door:
Get the hell out of here!
Ashley, talking through the door:
I'd just like to ask you a couple of questions. Why don't you answer
the questions?
[From inside, Floyd shouted ``I said get out!'' and slammed an inner
door, then continued shouting with words ``private property'' and
``arrested'' audible.]
Ashley: I just have a couple of questions to ask you. I'd just
like to know why you dispose of fetuses in the sink. Is that according
to DHEC regulations?
Ashley, back in the studio:
Now you should know that I spoke with a respected obstetrician who
told me that what Lori and Celeste claimed they saw was entirely
possible. The obstetrician told me that by the 12th week of pregnancy
the fetus is well developed---developed enough for arms
and legs to be completely recognizable.
Tomorrow, as this investigative I Team series continues, you will hear
what health officials have to say about the allegations that you've
just heard. Also, I'll have another chance to question Dr. Floyd.
Hope you will join us tomorrow.
elizabeth
http://www.webmd.com/baby/healthtool-fetal-development-timeline
But at three inches total, you have to look mighty close to see them!
Looks kinda like a Gummi Bear.
12 Weeks
The fetus measures about 6 to 7 cm (2.3 to 2.75 inches) from crown to
rump. The fetus will start to make its own movements. Your chance of
miscarriage drops considerably after this week.
nyi...@bellsouth.net
[The second evening's report began with preliminary comments and news
clips similar to those at the beginning of the first evening's
report. The Ladies' Clinic was then shown from a distance.]
[Reporter Dan ] Ashley, off-camera:
Every year, for a variety of reasons, thousands of women choose to end
a pregnancy. For most, it is a very difficult decision. Many women
have their abortions at clinics like this one in North Charleston.
You'd never know the Ladies' Clinic on Rivers Avenue was
a medical building. There's only a small sign, and it is sandwiched
between a pawnshop and an adult bookstore.
Every Wednesdday and Friday afternoon, Dr. Jesse Floyd arrives at his
clinic.
Dr. Jesse Floyd lives in Columbia. He travels to this clinic in North
Charleston. He also operates a clinic in Columbia and one in
Greenville.
In his years as an abortion doctor he has seen a lot of controversy.
In the early '70's, Dr. Floyd was accused of raping a student nurse in
a Columbia hosptal. The charges were later dropped. In 1975, Dr.
Floyd was indicted on charges of murder and perforiming an illegal
abortion, for aborting a third trimester fetus. The fetus [*sic*]
lived for three weeks after the abortion. Those charges were also
dropped.
And Dr. Floyd is now involved in a lawsuit with the family of a 14
year old girl. The suit alleges that Dr. Floyd performed an abortion
on the teenager without her parents' knowledge.
During the course of this investigation, I spoke with two women who
used to work for Dr. Floyd.
[There followed excerpts from interviews that had been aired the
previous
evening with Saunders and Danish, with background information on them
that had
been given the previous evening.]
Ashley: I tried twice to give Dr. Floyd an opportunity to respond. He
declined.
[There followed excerpts from the attempted interview shown in the
first night's broadcast, followed by a scene showing Floyd walking
down the street towards his clinic.]
Floyd, with some parts of words edited out in the TV broadcast:
I said get off this ***damn property, you son of a b****.
Floyd, after a short pause:
Stand here and let's talk a little bit. When the police hear you *****
me you'll have your ass arrested, you son of a b****.
Ashley, back to camera, facing Floyd:
I'm not insulting you.
Floyd: You ought to get off this property with your ass.
Ashley: You just told me to stand here.
Floyd: I told you to get off - this - property.
Ashley: You do not want to answer any questions about this.
Floyd: I said get - off - this - property!
[inaudible expletives by Floyd follow]
Ashley: Thank you for your time.
Ashley, back in studio:
Dr. Floyd didn't want to answer any of my questions about the
allegations they made about his clinic. But he may have to answer to
the Department of Health and Environmental Control. DHEC has started
an investigation.
[Cut to DHEC official Wayne Fanning, being interviewed by Dan Ashley.]
Fanning: We'd like to know details about the, the information you have
so we can pursue whether there is compliance with infectious waste
regulations.
[Cut to South Carolina State Senator Glenn McConnell, being
interviewed by Dan Ashley.]
Ashley, off camera:
Your reaction to the idea that fetal material is just being flushed
down a disposal like you have in your kitchen?
Sen. McConnell: I'm astounded, and I guess I, I'm *horrified* about
it. It's just hard to, to swallow that our law allows that. And, and
if it does allow that, it needs clearing up.
Ashley, back in the studio:
So what *does* the law say? Can fetal tissue be dumped into a garbage
disposal and into the public sewer system? You'll hear what officials
have to say about that information that we've brought to light coming
up tomorrow, as I continue this I Team investigation.
nyi...@bellsouth.net
> nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > Ironically enough, Beasley also appointed a lobbyist for the mis-named
> > > > abortion rights group, South Carolina Family Research Foundation, to a
> > > > prominent educational committee, apparently forgetting who she was.
> > > > This lobbyist, Inez Tenenbaum,
> > > played a significant role in raising South Carolina's ranking in
> > > average SAT scores from 50th to 18th.
> > Would that it were so! The 18th represents the *participation rate*
> > of students. Maine, with 100 percent participation, was dead last in
> > SAT scores of 50 states plus DC (which was included, but even it
> > topped Maine). South Carolina beat these two, but no other state.
>
> That's still a significant achievement - it shows that more graduating
> students are taking the SATs,
You have no basis for claiming this. In another thread, "Request to
Nyikos 2.0 for a source," you revealed that you actually thought it
had increased 20-fold, but that was a hilarious misreading of the USA
Today article, which gave only statistics for 2007, and you somehow
got the idea that, because the lowest state had a participation rate
of 3 percent, the 62 percent participation rate for South Carolina
reflected a jump from a 50th rating less than two years earlier!!
You have no evidence that they went up AT ALL during Tenenbaum's 8-
year tenure as state superintendent of schools.
>which shows that more of them are
> pursuing higher education.
Do you really think 100% of all Maine high school students are
pursuing higher education???
>The average scores went up only a few
> points.
And this reflects a failure on your part to compare the Wikipedia
entry with the one in USA Today. The scores went DOWN, not up.
>But on the other hand, the article says this:
>
> "The College Board cautions against ranking states by
> scores. The reason: Scores vary greatly by how many
> students take the exam. The more who take it, the
> lower the state's score is likely to be."
Hence the unusually low scores for Maine. It would be interesting to
see how high the participation in Maine was when South Carolina was
dead last instead of 49th among the states.
> So any gains in average SAT scores appear to have been offset by
> higher participation.
Garbage in, garbage out.
> > >President-elect Obama had her
> > > on his short list as a candidate for Secretary of Education.
> > I wonder if he was fooled by the same Wikipedia article you were
> > fooled by.
>
> Sour grapes - my, my, my.
These grapes are delicious from my POV: they show that the only pro-
choicer who tries to engage me in extended conversation on on-topic
issues has incredibly poor reading comprehension.
What did you say your SAT scores were on that? ;-)
[deletia of things to be responded to later]
> > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inez_Tenenbaum
> > You meant the following yokelish spelling in irony, but the irony is
> > on you:
>
> More sour grapes.
You'll be eating sour grapes, not me.
> > > Ya heerd of weekeepeedeeah, turkey?
> > Yep, and I also know that it is not very reliable, and that footnotes
> > need to be checked out. I did so in the case of excommunication
> > and saw that it sent me to the official Vatican website. I did it again
> > now, and the linked USA Today article in Footnote 3 told me the real
> > story, which the turkey who wrote the article hilariously misread.
>
> It did show that your dismissive tone toward Ms. Tenenbaum was
> entirely unwarranted.
Garbage in, garbage out.
>
> > Thanks to you, I've created an account in Wikipedia and corrected
> > the error.
>
> I think that notice to the original author is generated whenever
> someone edits a Wiki article.
Yeah, and he made a botch of the re-editing. See below.
>Have fun playing edit wars.
I will, eventually. Now I am just sitting back, enjoying the irony
of the turkey having contradicted him/herself in a single paragraph.
Peter Nyikos
nyi...@bellsouth.net
Of course. Thanks for reinforcing my observation that Spartakus
misread the two articles, one in Wikipedia, the other in USA Today.
The turkey who wrote the former article was evidently so embarrassed
by the fact that 'e had misread the latter, 'e removed the reference
altogether.
'e was probably a Tenenbaum fan who wanted to erase such an
unflattering counterexample to Inez's "noted that".
Peter Nyikos
Ray Fischer
>On Jan 21, 10:44 pm, rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>> <nyik...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> >On Jan 14, 10:29 pm, Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> >> nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>> >> > Ironically enough, Beasley also appointed a lobbyist for the mis-named
>> >> > abortion rights group, South Carolina Family Research Foundation, to a
>> >> > prominent educational committee, apparently forgetting who she was.
>> >> > This lobbyist, Inez Tenenbaum,
>>
>> >> played a significant role in raising South Carolina's ranking in
>> >> average SAT scores from 50th to 18th.
>>
>> >Would that it were so! The 18th represents the *participation rate*
>> >of students. Maine, with 100 percent participation, was dead last in
>> >SAT scores of 50 states plus DC (which was included, but even it
>> >topped Maine). South Carolina beat these two, but no other state.
>>
>> Anybody with a background in math would know that it's easy to get a
>> high average score if you simply eliminate all of the low-scorers from
>> the testing.
>
>Of course. Thanks for reinforcing my observation that Spartakus
Your "observations" are worthless garbage.
And look - there's nothing left.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Spartakus
> Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > > Ironically enough, Beasley also appointed a lobbyist for the mis-named
> > > > > abortion rights group, South Carolina Family Research Foundation, to a
> > > > > prominent educational committee, apparently forgetting who she was.
> > > > > This lobbyist, Inez Tenenbaum,
> > > > played a significant role in raising South Carolina's ranking in
> > > > average SAT scores from 50th to 18th.
> > > Would that it were so! The 18th represents the *participation rate*
> > > of students. Maine, with 100 percent participation, was dead last in
> > > SAT scores of 50 states plus DC (which was included, but even it
> > > topped Maine). South Carolina beat these two, but no other state.
> > That's still a significant achievement - it shows that more graduating
> > students are taking the SATs,
> You have no basis for claiming this.
Now that I see your game and have done some research, I'll amend my
response - even Tenenbaum's adversaries acknowledge that the average
SAT *scores* for South Carolina students improved during her tenure.
And they improved even though participation also increased. As we
have noted previously, average scores tend to *decrease* with
increased participation.
[--FauxNy's obfuscatory blarts deleted--]
> > > Thanks to you, I've created an account in Wikipedia and corrected
> > > the error.
> > I think that notice to the original author is generated whenever
> > someone edits a Wiki article.
> Yeah, and he made a botch of the re-editing. See below.
Are you sure you want to run with that? You wouldn't be
misrepresenting things here, would you? Like you did with the
dialogue between Mark Cochran and Donovan Verrill?
> >Have fun playing edit wars.
> I will, eventually. Now I am just sitting back, enjoying the irony
> of the turkey having contradicted him/herself in a single paragraph.
Are you *sure* you want to run with that?
Spartakus
> rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
> > Anybody with a background in math would know that it's easy to get
> > a high average score if you simply eliminate all of the low-scorers
> > from the testing.
> Of course. Thanks for reinforcing my observation that Spartakus
> misread the two articles, one in Wikipedia, the other in USA Today.
What a crazy, crazy non sequitur! It's more and more apparent that
you've gone completely bonkers since your previous stay in the
abortion newsgroups.
james g. keegan jr.
<bf861b97-d1aa-482b...@e1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
Spartakus <spar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
this iteration of the peter nyikos persona seems far, far less sane than
the original. i wonder what happened to him since he disappeared in
1994, if, of course, he is the same person who posted as peter nyikos
back then.
--
"osprey knows that the people who see him as such a characterless,
scumbag liar are seeing an accurate reflection of that he really is.
osprey hates himself, as he should. so he strikes out at everyone who
he feels is better than he is, which is everyone."
--"james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com>
<jgkeegan-C249BB...@individual.net>
nyi...@bellsouth.net
> Ashley, back in studio:
> Dr. Floyd didn't want to answer any of my questions about the
> allegations they made about his clinic. But he may have to answer to
> the Department of Health and Environmental Control. DHEC has started
> an investigation.
>
> [Cut to DHEC official Wayne Fanning, being interviewed by Dan Ashley.]
>
> Fanning: We'd like to know details about the, the information you have
> so we can pursue whether there is compliance with infectious waste
> regulations.
The third and final evening of this series opened with Leslie Lyles
and Dan Ashley in the studio, saying:
Ashley: As a direct result of the special I Team investigation you've
seen here on TV 2 this week, a North Charleston abortion clinic is
under investigation.
Lyles: Health officials are looking into allegations about how the
clinic disposes of aborted fetuses, allegations that Dan brought to
light this week.
[There followed comments and news
clips similar to those at the beginning of reports of the first two
evenings.
The Ladies' Clinic was again shown from a distance, with off-camera
comments like those before. There followed a new clip from
the interview with Celeste Danish.]
Danish: I give the doctor credit, he's running a place that's
constantly getting hounded by pro-life people, but it needs to be run
right if it is to be run at all.
Ashley, in voice-over:
What Celeste Danish means by being run right is the way she claims
fetuses are disposed of at the Ladies' Clinic after an abortion.
[There followed more clips from interviews with Celeste Danish and
Lori Saunders, and the confrontations with Jesse Floyd, all repeating
some of what was seen the first two evenings, with narration by Dan
Ashley. Then came an excerpt from an interview with DHEC's Wayne
Fanning, beginning with Fanning's words above and continuing as
follows.]
Ashley, in voice-over:
As a result of the information we brought to light, DHEC is
investigating.
Fanning: It doesn't seem appropriate ... um, whether it's legal or not
is not in question.
[Cut to a scene of workers removing medical waste.]
Ashley, off-camera:
The new state Infectious Waste Management Act defines medical waste,
among other things, as blood and blood products, tissues and organs,
and various body tissues.
[Cut to an interview with Dr. Joe Chambers of the Health Department.]
Chambers: Fetal tissue would be looked on as the products of
conception and, and it...I would assume it would be a type of body
tissue.
[Back to the scene at a medical facility.]
Ashley, off-camera:
The law says infectious medical waste must be packaged, labeled, and
either buried or incinerated. There is an exclusion in the law for so-
called small waste generators that may apply to the Ladies' Clinic.
Ashley, on camera:
That law was designed to help doctors and dentists who generate small
amounts of medical waste every day---shuck pads and gauze and that
sort of thing. But the law was *never* designed to allow someone to
dispose of fetal material in a sink.
[Cut to an interview with State Senator Glen McConnell.]
McConnell:
I don't think that *anybody* has ever imagined that it would allow
fetuses to be just, uh, flushed down a drain, so to speak, or chopped
up and drained. And I mean, that's...it's shocking. The whole thing
is, is really horrifying.
Ashley, back in studio:
Senator McConnell told me that if the law allows an aborted fetus to
be put down a garbage disposal, it shouldn't. And as a direct result
of our I Team investigation, Senator McConnell says he plans to
introduce legislation to require first-term abortion clinics to be
certified by the Deptartment of Health and Environmental Control.
As far as DHEC is concerned, officials tell me they will re-word the
regulations to forbid aborted fetuses from being put into the public
sewer system.
[end of third broadcast]
nyi...@bellsouth.net
> nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > 2. The Great Catalyst
>
> > But the turning point was just four months away. Ironically, we may
> > have the callousness of the late Dr. Jesse Johnce Floyd, the
> > notorious Columbia abortionist who ran several enormously successful
> > Ladies' Clinics, to thank for the fact that the bill made it through
> > the State Legislature in 1993-94.
>
> > Floyd gained national notoriety many years ago in a case that was
> > taken all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. Of that famous case,
> > there is an account in _Abortion: the Silent Holocaust_ [3]:
>
> Ah, so you are repeating lies and unfounded speculations that were
> debunked some two months ago.
Wrong. I am repeating information that I have not yet documented
(except for what you see below) and which you challenged with the same
Truth by Blatant Assertion that you are using below.
> "And there lies the tipping point for this case.
> The fetus (or neonate, if you prefer) survived for
> 20 days and even underwent surgery. There is no
> way that Floyd was guilty of murder.
Wrong. South Carolina law says that abortion is murder, but that law
has been unenforcable since RvW, EXCEPT for the part not touched by
RvW, namely abortions done in the third trimester for reasons other
than the life or health of the mother. It is this legal background
that DA Anders worked under during his long prosecution of the case.
> If the
> fetus/neonate was indeed at 28+ weeks gestational
> age, it at least had a fighting chance.
Legally that was irrelevant. What was relevant is that it was,
according to the Supreme Court itself, a third trimester abortion,
without any record of the woman's health being involved.
>The fact that
> it underwent surgery surely indicates that something
> was seriously wrong.
Where did you see any indication that it underwent surgery?
> "You don't have enough facts at your disposal to say
> with reasonable certainty that Floyd was guilty of any
> crime, let alone murder.
False, see above.
> Of course, your standards
> may differ from that of the courts.
See above and below.
> Father Powell (author of Abortion: The Silent Holocaust) claimed that
> the fetus/neonate may have died from injuries induce by
> *prostaglandins*. What sort of injuries can prostaglandins inflict
> that would be corrected by surgery?
Again, where did you get the information that it underwent surgery?
Prostaglandin abortions produce violent contractions that can
seriously injure or even kill a fetus in the course of delivery. It's
different from just using oxytocin.
> > Occasionally, one still hears claims that abortion history might have
> > been totally different, had Haynsworth's nomination to the Supreme
> > Court not been rejected by the Senate: this rejection was followed by
> > the elevation of Harry Blackmun to the Supreme Court. But this
> > bizarre ruling, coming after *Roe v. Wade*, suggests otherwise.
>
> Given the facts of the case and the law, it is the only ruling that
> Haynsworth could hand down.
False. Read the source you deleted:
[4] *Anders v. Floyd*, 440 US 445. [i.e., _United States Reports_,
volume 440, article commencing on page 445.]
And read the following bizarre rationalization, which you also
deleted:
In his judgment, Haynsworth assumed that the baby boy
who lived twenty days had not been a viable fetus
because he had not lived indefinitely.
> One more thing - do you have any idea how offensive that book title is?
The relevant question is: was it offensive back when it was written
(1981) to more than a small minority of Jews?
Peter Nyikos
nyi...@bellsouth.net
> nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > > > This lobbyist, Inez Tenenbaum,
> > > > > played a significant role in raising South Carolina's ranking in
> > > > > average SAT scores from 50th to 18th.
> > > > Would that it were so! The 18th represents the *participation rate*
> > > > of students. Maine, with 100 percent participation, was dead last in
> > > > SAT scores of 50 states plus DC (which was included, but even it
> > > > topped Maine). South Carolina beat these two, but no other state.
> > > That's still a significant achievement - it shows that more graduating
> > > students are taking the SATs,
> > You have no basis for claiming this.
>
> Now that I see your game and have done some research, I'll amend my
> response
I too have done some research. For one thing, I actually watched the
whole 45 or so minutes of the program, John Stossel's 20/20 "Stupid in
America" on the YouTube, using the link given in the Wikipedia article
on Inez. It is a fascinating indictment of our public school system,
teachers' unions, and individual schools and educators. It lays a lot
of stress on conditions right here in South Carolina, none of the ones
aired being flattering.
>- even Tenenbaum's adversaries acknowledge that the average
> SAT *scores* for South Carolina students improved during her tenure.
Yeah, let's just see how one of her "adversaries, " the 20/20
interviewer, made that acknowledgement. He said that South Carolina
public schools are last in the country, to which Inez responded "If
you look at every indicator for South Carolina schools, South Carolina
is not last."
But the only specific example she brought up was "We are ranked number
1 in the country for improvement on the SAT."
Interviewer: "When you're at the bottom, it's easier to improve. [He
gave the figure of a 32 point overall improvement on scores during
Inez's tenure up to that point.] You've improved, and you're *still*
last!"
Inez: "SAT is an indicator that really shouldn't be used to judge any
state."
What a politician! She didn't just move the goalposts, she tore down
the only ones she set up! But then, I'm not surprised--you would have
done the same thing in her shoes, woudn't you, "Spartakus"?
> And they improved even though participation also increased.
What is your source for this information? Not the Wikipedia article,
and not the USA Today article, that's for sure. And keep in mind that
they went DOWN in the year after the interview was made, while Inez
was still State Superintendent.
These are some of the "blarts" you deleted. Did you think they
weren't germane to the discussion?
> > > > Thanks to you, I've created an account in Wikipedia and corrected
> > > > the error.
> > > I think that notice to the original author is generated whenever
> > > someone edits a Wiki article.
> > Yeah, and he made a botch of the re-editing. See below.
>
> Are you sure you want to run with that?
Yes. He paraphrased a statement that Inez made at the interview, and
claimed that at that time Inez had already been replaced as
Superintendent!! but the date Inez was replaced was almost exactly a
year AFTER the interview.
Y'see, the part before the last sentence is taken verbatim from the
original version, and that part was followed in that version by the
erroneous claim that SC had jumped to 18th in overall scores by the
time of the USA Today article. And THAT was the thing that made the
last sentence of the paragraph make sense. As it is, here is how the
end reads now:
"Tenenbaum defended South Carolina schools, noting that South Carolina
was poised for vast improvements in the next few years.[citation
needed] She had been replaced as Superintendent of Education by then,
by Democrat Jim Rex on January 10, 2007."
What that first sentence is paraphrasing is Inez's closing words, "we
will see remarkable success in the next few years."
Anyone here want to take bets on that? In other words, did Inez
really "note that" or did she just blindly assert that?
Peter Nyikos
james g. keegan jr.
<889da612-69fa-4b6c...@j39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
nyi...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> On Jan 21, 3:10 pm, Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
[...]
> > Ah, so you are repeating lies and unfounded speculations that were
> > debunked some two months ago.
>
> Wrong. I am repeating information that I have not yet documented
i'd expect that of an osprey, not of an allegedly educated man.
Spartakus
> Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > But the turning point was just four months away. Ironically, we may
> > > have the callousness of the late Dr. Jesse Johnce Floyd, the
> > > notorious Columbia abortionist who ran several enormously successful
> > > Ladies' Clinics, to thank for the fact that the bill made it through
> > > the State Legislature in 1993-94.
> > > Floyd gained national notoriety many years ago in a case that was
> > > taken all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. Of that famous case,
> > > there is an account in _Abortion: the Silent Holocaust_ [3]:
> > Ah, so you are repeating lies and unfounded speculations that were
> > debunked some two months ago.
> Wrong. I am repeating information that I have not yet documented
> (except for what you see below) and which you challenged with the
> same Truth by Blatant Assertion that you are using below.
Iow, you ARE repeating lies and unfounded speculations that were
debunked some two months ago.
> > "And there lies the tipping point for this case.
> > The fetus (or neonate, if you prefer) survived for
> > 20 days and even underwent surgery. There is no
> > way that Floyd was guilty of murder.
> Wrong. South Carolina law says that abortion is murder, but that law
> has been unenforcable since RvW,
There are still laws in some states that say that motor vehicles must
be preceded by a man on foot carrying a red flag.
> EXCEPT for the part not touched by RvW, namely abortions done in
> the third trimester for reasons other than the life or health of the mother.
> It is this legal background that DA Anders worked under during his long
> prosecution of the case.
Was he the same prosecutor who doubted that he could obtain a
conviction that passed constitutional muster?
> > If the fetus/neonate was indeed at 28+ weeks
> > gestational age, it at least had a fighting chance.
> Legally that was irrelevant. What was relevant is that it was,
> according to the Supreme Court itself, a third trimester abortion,
> without any record of the woman's health being involved.
> > The fact that it underwent surgery surely indicates that
> > something was seriously wrong.
> Where did you see any indication that it underwent surgery?
I read it somewhere on the Googles when I was gathering background
information for our previous exchange on this topic. I can't find the
source now, so consider the statement withdrawn.
> > "You don't have enough facts at your disposal to say
> > with reasonable certainty that Floyd was guilty of any
> > crime, let alone murder.
> False, see above.
True, ditto.
> > Of course, your standards
> > may differ from that of the courts.
> See above and below.
Yup, your standards do appear to be differ.
> > Father Powell (author of Abortion: The Silent Holocaust) claimed
> > that the fetus/neonate may have died from injuries induce by
> > *prostaglandins*. What sort of injuries can prostaglandins inflict
> > that would be corrected by surgery?
> Prostaglandin abortions produce violent contractions that can
> seriously injure or even kill a fetus in the course of delivery. It's
> different from just using oxytocin.
Another word for those "violent contractions" you describe is
"labor". Prostaglandin is often used to induce labor, and the main
difference from oxytocin is that the former "ripens" the cervix as
well as stimulates the uterus to contract. It says a lot about Father
Powell (and you) that he (and you) would rely on people's ignorance of
these things to score anti-abortion rhetorical points.
> > > Occasionally, one still hears claims that abortion history might have
> > > been totally different, had Haynsworth's nomination to the Supreme
> > > Court not been rejected by the Senate: this rejection was followed by
> > > the elevation of Harry Blackmun to the Supreme Court. But this
> > > bizarre ruling, coming after *Roe v. Wade*, suggests otherwise.
> > Given the facts of the case and the law, it is the only ruling that
> > Haynsworth could hand down.
> False.
Oh? Are there facts that Haynsworth wasn't aware of, and if so, why
weren't they presented in court?
> Read the source you deleted:
>
> [4] *Anders v. Floyd*, 440 US 445. [i.e., _United States Reports_,
> volume 440, article commencing on page 445.]
Which orders the case to be remanded and retried under Colautti v.
Franklin, a decision that was handed down more than a year *after*
Haynsworth's ruling!
> And read the following bizarre rationalization, which you also
> deleted:
>
> In his judgment, Haynsworth assumed that the baby boy
> who lived twenty days had not been a viable fetus
> because he had not lived indefinitely.
Truth by Blatent Assertion.
> > One more thing - do you have any idea how offensive that book title is?
> The relevant question is: was it offensive back when it was written
> (1981) to more than a small minority of Jews?
I take that as an affirmation that you don't know how offensive the
book title is.
Spartakus
> > > > > > > This lobbyist, Inez Tenenbaum,
John Stossel? "Libertarian" John Stossel? Anti-government, anti-
public-education John Stossel? Oh, that guy is a piece of work -
first he denied global warming, then he tried to argue that global
warming is *good* for the human race! Yeah, you sure have a nose for
credible sources, Peter.
NOT!
Sorry to say, John Stossel is simply Bill O'Reilly with a slightly
better attitude.
> > > > > Thanks to you, I've created an account in Wikipedia and corrected
> > > > > the error.
> > > > I think that notice to the original author is generated whenever
> > > > someone edits a Wiki article.
> > > Yeah, and he made a botch of the re-editing. See below.
> > Are you sure you want to run with that?
> Yes.
Whatever. Have fun playing edit wars.
nyi...@bellsouth.net
written off by pro-lifers; occasionally, it comes through with an
unexpectedly powerful feature that leads to real reform.
It is also clear from this transcript that the pubic can still be
shocked by features of abortion far less monumental than the ending of
a human life it entails. Where born human beings (both adults and
children) are concerned, our civilization has deep-seated aversions to
improper treatment of their corpses, be it grinding and flushing,
dismemberment, or cannibalism. This evidently carries over to the same
treatment accorded to unborn children. Recent reports of cannibalism
of aborted fetuses in China [5] are another example of this, as are
trafficking in fetal tissues and organs [6].
By the way, fetal tissue transplants can be called ``cannibalization''
just as one can speak of ``cannibalizing'' machines for their spare
parts. Some of the most outspoken foes of fetal tissue transpants are
ardently pro-abortion, but they are concerned for what
might happen to women. Gena Corea, author of
_How_American_Medicine_Mistreats_Women, has stated, ``Women will be
pressured by doctors and families, or by economic need, to become
fetal factories.'' [7].
Similar concerns have been voiced by President Bush about women,
particularly poor women in developing countries, being pressured to
provide eggs for cloning and for producing embryonic stem cells.
[Strange, isn't it, what a hot topic fetal tissue transplants were a
decade ago, touted to promise cures for Parkinson's disease and
various other problems. Now, to judge from the media coverage, all
this hype has been transferred to embryonic stem cells, while fetal
tissue transplants have gone down the memory hole.]
Endnotes:
[5] [At this point, the original essay contained a url for a website
that is apparently defunct, and I have no documentation of cannibalism
in China to replace it.]
[6] Suzanne Rini, _Beyond _Abortion: A_Chronicle_of
_Fetal_Experimentation_, Magnificat Press, Avon, New Jersey, 1988.
Reprinted by TAN Books and Publishers, Inc., Rockford, Illinois,
1993.
[In 1994, I had a telephone conversation with Suzanne Rini in which
she told me that the French cosmetics company Californie Esthetique,
based near Marseilles, has a brochure which explicitly states that
they use collagen from human fetuses in their cosmetics.]
[7]``Fetal Attraction," by Michael Fumento, The American Spectator,
July 1992, page 33.
TO BE CONTINUED
Peter Nyikos
nyi...@bellsouth.net
> nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
> > > Anybody with a background in math would know that it's easy to get
> > > a high average score if you simply eliminate all of the low-scorers
> > > from the testing.
> > Of course. Thanks for reinforcing my observation that Spartakus
> > misread the two articles, one in Wikipedia, the other in USA Today.
>
> What a crazy, crazy non sequitur!
Save the ham acting for a more appropriate occasion. This issue has
been discussed on more than one thread, you know.
>It's more and more apparent that
> you've gone completely bonkers since your previous stay in the
> abortion newsgroups.
On another thread, where we were both very active, the following
exchange took place between us:
[Nyikos:]
> > Only the SAT score STANDING of South Carolina improved from 50 to
> > 49 among the states, because someone in Maine, who deserves heaps
> > of praise by your ignorant standards, got 100% of the high school
> > students in Maine to take the SAT tests, even flunkies who
> > had no intention of going on to college.
[Spartakus:]
> So? According to your logic, South Carolina should have stayed in the
> basement.
[Nyikos:]
Too bad they did away with verbal reasoning. You would have done
abysmally in that too, judging from this stupid comment.
How do you know Maine didn't increase its participation hugely from
2005 to 2007, hmmmmmn?
--"Request to Nyikos 2.0 for a source,"
Wednesday, January 28, 2009 4:39:15 PM
Peter Nyikos
nyi...@bellsouth.net
> In article
> <bf861b97-d1aa-482b-858f-6cb732314...@e1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>
> > > > Anybody with a background in math would know that it's easy to get
> > > > a high average score if you simply eliminate all of the low-scorers
> > > > from the testing.
>
> > > Of course. Thanks for reinforcing my observation that Spartakus
> > > misread the two articles, one in Wikipedia, the other in USA Today.
>
> > What a crazy, crazy non sequitur! It's more and more apparent that
> > you've gone completely bonkers since your previous stay in the
> > abortion newsgroups.
As I documented in my follow-up to Spartakus a few minutes ago, the
above was pure bullshit on his part.
> this iteration of the peter nyikos persona seems far, far less sane than
> the original.
Did you actually believe Spartakus was right??? You know by now what a
con artist he is, so perhaps your blind loyalty to him caused you not
to care at all whether he was right or wrong.
[GIGO rumination by Keegan deleted]
"osprey knows that the people who [claim massively to ]
see him as such a characterless, scumbag liar are seeing
an accurate reflection [of their own selves in their words.
they hate osprey, as their agenda forces them to do] .
so he strikes out at everyone who
[behaves in this despicable manner,] which includes many
[who are allied with] "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com>
<jgkeegan [ were he an honest man]-C249BB.15222220022...
@individual.net>
nyi...@bellsouth.net
> <nyik...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >On Jan 21, 10:44 pm, rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
> >> <nyik...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >> >On Jan 14, 10:29 pm, Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >> >> nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> >> >> > Ironically enough, Beasley also appointed a lobbyist for the mis-named
> >> >> > abortion rights group, South Carolina Family Research Foundation, to a
> >> >> > prominent educational committee, apparently forgetting who she was.
> >> >> > This lobbyist, Inez Tenenbaum,
>
> >> >> played a significant role in raising South Carolina's ranking in
> >> >> average SAT scores from 50th to 18th.
>
> >> >Would that it were so! The 18th represents the *participation rate*
> >> >of students. Maine, with 100 percent participation, was dead last in
> >> >SAT scores of 50 states plus DC (which was included, but even it
> >> >topped Maine). South Carolina beat these two, but no other state.
>
> >> Anybody with a background in math would know that it's easy to get a
> >> high average score if you simply eliminate all of the low-scorers from
> >> the testing.
>
> >Of course. Thanks for reinforcing my observation that Spartakus
>
It is your undocumented lies that are worthless garbage, like the one
you have made just now. See my reply to Spartakus's post that
parallels yours for documentation that confirms the fact that you
reinforced my observation. I've documented his misreadings many
times in this thread and also in that "Request..." thread.
TEST OF FISCHER-SIMULATING SOFTWARE :-)
>I've documented his misreadings many times in this thread
>and also in that "Request..." thread.
As usual fauxNy merely declares himself correct in all things as
ignores and facts which are inconvenient.
END OF TEST :-)
Peter Nyikos
nyi...@bellsouth.net
Looks like Spartakus finally got around to reading the Wikipedia
article, folks. :-)
> John Stossel? "Libertarian" John Stossel?
So what? Your ally Partick Humphrey is a Libertarian too. Do you
happen to know whether the following sentence also fits Patrick?
> Anti-government, anti- public-education John Stossel?
>Oh, that guy is a piece of work -
I'm sure you don't want to say THAT about Patrick.
> first he denied global warming,
the whole thing? or just the assertion that it is mostly man-made?
The latter is disputed by many reputable climatologists and
meteorologists. Look up "Maunder minimum" in Wikipedia for the other
main contender for what it is mostly due to.
>then he tried to argue that global
> warming is *good* for the human race! Yeah, you sure have a nose for
> credible sources, Peter.
I didn't say *he* was credible. What I saw with my own eyes was all I
needed for making the above statements, and everything I said about
your beloved Inez Tenenbaum.
Peter Nyikos
james g. keegan jr.
<283fc807-a1a2-4ffc...@l1g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
nyi...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> On Feb 4, 7:12 pm, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As I documented in my follow-up to Spartakus
and ran away from my remarks.
cute of you to reply to one of my posts and foolishly try to divert
attention to another exchange.
Spartakus
[...]
> It is also clear from this transcript that the pubic can still be
> shocked by features of abortion far less monumental than the ending of
> a human life it entails. Where born human beings (both adults and
> children) are concerned, our civilization has deep-seated aversions to
> improper treatment of their corpses, be it grinding and flushing,
> dismemberment, or cannibalism. This evidently carries over to the same
> treatment accorded to unborn children. Recent reports of cannibalism
> of aborted fetuses in China [5] are another example of this,
Since PiNhead recently expressed some hurt feelings about
"BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!", I am struggling mightly to not laugh right now.
And losing. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Surely, PiNhead is not so completely out of it that he doesn't know
that this is an URBAN LEGEND that was debunked years ago.
http://www.snopes.com/horrors/cannibal/fetus.asp
> as are trafficking in fetal tissues and organs [6].
And this was debunked years ago as well. Time for a repost:
**************************************************************
From: M is for Malapert <M_mem...@newsguy.com>
Subject: "HE LIED THROUGH HIS TEETH" about selling baby body parts!
Date: 2000/03/10
Message-ID: <8abkq5$1l...@drn.newsguy.com>
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
The "Sale of Baby Body Parts" scandal screeched to an abrupt halt
yesterday when star witness Lawrence Dean Alberty recanted the stories
he had told and that had sparked a Congressional inquiry.
His admission of dishonesty left those gullible enough to have
believed the absurd charges with (fertilized?) egg on their faces.
Alberty admitted that he was paid by the anti-abortion group Life
Dynamics Inc., run by sleazemeister Mark Crutcher of "Slime 5" infamy,
to make a video about unscrupulous "harvesting" practices, including
the allegation that some fetal tissue samples were taken from live
babies.
Rather than supporting his allegations of wrongdoing, Alberty's
testimony centered around his conversion from supporting a woman's
right to abortion to opposing abortion instead, according to CNN.
Republicans, who had supported Alberty and called the hearing on the
basis of his claims, distanced themselves from him during his
questioning.
"I found so many inconsistencies in your testimony that your
credibility as far as this member is concerned is shot," Rep. Richard
Burr, a Republican from North Carolina, told Alberty.
The inconsistencies were between the story Alberty told on the video
and an affidavit he signed in January.
"When I was under oath I told the truth," Alberty said. "Anything on
video is a different story." He later added he made allegations on the
Life Dynamics video because he thought "that's what they wanted to
hear."
ROTFL&L&LOL!!!!
And so, another PRO-LIAR bites the dust, taking his sleazy, dishonest
rumors along with him.
Papa Jack, are you reading this?
**************************************************************
[...]
> Endnotes:
>
> [5] [At this point, the original essay contained a url for a website
> that is apparently defunct, and I have no documentation of cannibalism
> in China to replace it.]
Heh.
> [6] Suzanne Rini, _Beyond _Abortion: A_Chronicle_of
> _Fetal_Experimentation_, Magnificat Press, Avon, New Jersey, 1988.
> Reprinted by TAN Books and Publishers, Inc., Rockford, Illinois,
> 1993.
Indeed.
> [In 1994, I had a telephone conversation with Suzanne Rini in which
> she told me that the French cosmetics company Californie Esthetique,
> based near Marseilles, has a brochure which explicitly states that
> they use collagen from human fetuses in their cosmetics.]
Why should we believe her? She lied about harvesting fetal body parts.
Spartakus
> Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
> > > > Anybody with a background in math would know that it's easy to get
> > > > a high average score if you simply eliminate all of the low-scorers
> > > > from the testing.
> > > Of course. Thanks for reinforcing my observation that Spartakus
> > > misread the two articles, one in Wikipedia, the other in USA Today.
> > What a crazy, crazy non sequitur!
> Save the ham acting for a more appropriate occasion. This issue has
> been discussed on more than one thread, you know.
Irrelevant! It's still a crazy, crazy non sequitur.
> > It's more and more apparent that you've gone completely bonkers
> > since your previous stay in the abortion newsgroups.
>
> On another thread, where we were both very active, the following
> exchange took place between us:
[...]
Yep. You've become the coal car on the crazy train.
Spartakus
> Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > I too have done some research. For one thing, I actually watched the
> > > whole 45 or so minutes of the program, John Stossel's 20/20 "Stupid in
> > > America" on the YouTube, using the link given in the Wikipedia article
> > > on Inez. It is a fascinating indictment of our public school system,
> > > teachers' unions, and individual schools and educators. It lays a lot
> > > of stress on conditions right here in South Carolina, none of the ones
> > > aired being flattering.
[--clumsy attempt at a cheap shot deleted--]
> > John Stossel? "Libertarian" John Stossel?
> So what? Your ally Partick Humphrey is a Libertarian too. Do you
> happen to know whether the following sentence also fits Patrick?
Patrick is a small "l" libertarian, and not all libertarians march in
lock step. Nor indeed do Democrats and Republicans. Patrick Humphrey
has about as much in common with John Stossel as Hubert Humphrey had
in common with Strom Thurmond.
> > Anti-government, anti-public-education John Stossel?
> >Oh, that guy is a piece of work -
> I'm sure you don't want to say THAT about Patrick.
And I didn't, chuckle-nuts.
> > first he denied global warming,
> the whole thing? or just the assertion that it is mostly man-made?
> The latter is disputed by many reputable climatologists and
> meteorologists. Look up "Maunder minimum" in Wikipedia for the
> other main contender for what it is mostly due to.
(rolls eyes) Do your own homework.
> > then he tried to argue that global warming is *good* for the human
> > race! Yeah, you sure have a nose for credible sources, Peter.
> I didn't say *he* was credible. ...
Once again, I am struggling mightly not to laugh.
Oh, hell... BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Spartakus
> > As I documented in my follow-up to Spartakus
> and ran away from my remarks.
>
> cute of you to reply to one of my posts and foolishly try to divert
> attention to another exchange.
Given that his "Saga" has the trappings of a research paper, what are
the odds he will take out the references to fetal cannibalism and
fetal body parts trafficking?
james g. keegan jr.
<07f18d66-1e87-472b...@p2g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Spartakus <spar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > As I documented in my follow-up to Spartakus
>
> > and ran away from my remarks.
> >
> > cute of you to reply to one of my posts and foolishly try to divert
> > attention to another exchange.
>
> Given that his "Saga" has the trappings of a research paper, what are
> the odds he will take out the references to fetal cannibalism and
> fetal body parts trafficking?
ha ha. he is in deep trouble if his 'research' is similar to his posts
here. he has no clue how to make an argument and support it with facts.
worse yet, when the facts refute his argument, he simply lies.
that must be one great university.
nyi...@bellsouth.net
> nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
> > > > > Anybody with a background in math would know that it's easy to get
> > > > > a high average score if you simply eliminate all of the low-scorers
> > > > > from the testing.
This leaves out Spartakus, as seen in the following exchange, where he
completely ignores the possibility that Maine may have hugely
increased its participation, and that if it had not done so, SC might
still have come in dead last:
------------------------------------- begin excerpt--------
Nyikos:]
> > Only the SAT score STANDING of South Carolina improved from 50 to
> > 49 among the states, because someone in Maine, who deserves heaps
> > of praise by your ignorant standards, got 100% of the high school
> > students in Maine to take the SAT tests, even flunkies who
> > had no intention of going on to college.
[Spartakus:]
> So? According to your logic, South Carolina should have stayed in the
> basement.
[Nyikos:]
Too bad they did away with verbal reasoning. You would have done
abysmally in that too, judging from this stupid comment.
How do you know Maine didn't increase its participation hugely from
2005 to 2007, hmmmmmn?
--"Request to Nyikos 2.0 for a source,"
Wednesday, January 28, 2009 4:39:15 PM
At the time Spartakus wrote the above, the only things he had to go on
were the two sources I mention next:
> > > > Of course. Thanks for reinforcing my observation that Spartakus
> > > > misread the two articles, one in Wikipedia, the other in USA Today.
Note the misreading, "by your logic, SC should have stayed in the
basement".
Neither of those sources had anything to say about what the
participation levels of Maine and SC were in the year that the
Wikipedia article talks about, when SC was dead last. But Spartakus,
misreading the USA Today article, completely missed out on the fact
that it had NO information about how participation had changed in the
intervening time.
> > > What a crazy, crazy non sequitur!
> > Save the ham acting for a more appropriate occasion. This issue has
> > been discussed on more than one thread, you know.
> Irrelevant! It's still a crazy, crazy non sequitur.
Deny, deny, deny. Grow the _____ . [Insert the word that you used
when you used the formula in a dishonest way against me.]
You've buried your head in the sand (or should I say coal?) about the
exchange which I documented above. I documented it below your
accusation in my previous post, and you deleted it. Will you delete
it again, and repeat your insult?
> > > It's more and more apparent that you've gone completely bonkers
> > > since your previous stay in the abortion newsgroups.
>
> > On another thread, where we were both very active, the following
> > exchange took place between us:
>
> [...]
>
> Yep. You've become the coal car on the crazy train.
If so, you are deep inside the coal, along with Fischer and Keegan.
Better take care that the fireman does not shovel one of you into the
fire. :-)
Peter Nyikos
nyi...@bellsouth.net
> "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > As I documented in my follow-up to Spartakus
> > and ran away from my remarks.
>
> > cute of you to reply to one of my posts and foolishly try to divert
> > attention to another exchange.
Keegan is a 99 44/100 pure [1] polemicist. He shows no interest in the
actual facts presented in my reply to Spartakus, deletes the remarks I
am supposedly running away from, and makes accusations whose
falsehood is only clear to readers having this information in front
of them. I suppose his fans who have killfiled me will take him at
his word, and that's all he cares about.
[1] an allusion to a long-standing slogan about Ivory (Snow?) (Soap?),
not to be taken with complete literalness.
> Given that his "Saga" has the trappings of a research paper, what are
> the odds he will take out the references to fetal cannibalism and
> fetal body parts trafficking?
I't's been published already, with the reference right in the first
post to this thread. If I re-publish it, the material on fetal body
parts trafficking stays, perhaps with more up to date documentation,
and the stuff on fetal cannibalism goes unless I can find a reliable,
permanent source.
This illustrates why printed matter will never become completely
obsolete: websites can be deleted with a few keystrokes.
Peter Nyikos
james g. keegan jr.
<857a0787-44ea-4e1c...@v15g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
nyi...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> On Feb 11, 7:53 pm, Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > As I documented in my follow-up to Spartakus
> > > and ran away from my remarks.
> >
> > > cute of you to reply to one of my posts and foolishly try to divert
> > > attention to another exchange.
>
> Keegan is a 99 44/100 pure [1] polemicist.
you should have admitted to your failed efforts and apologized to me and
readers.
instead you start with your meaningless and most often inaccurate labels.
you should be ashamed.
james g. keegan jr.
<c470c669-0778-4928...@o11g2000yql.googlegroups.com>,
nyi...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> On Feb 11, 7:41 pm, Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > > rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
> > > > > > Anybody with a background in math would know that it's easy to get
> > > > > > a high average score if you simply eliminate all of the low-scorers
> > > > > > from the testing.
>
> This leaves out Spartakus, as seen in the following exchange, where he
> completely ignores the possibility that Maine may have hugely
> increased its participation, and that if it had not done so, SC might
> still have come in dead last
were that the case, readers would have seen it without your feeling the
need to dishonestly suggest it.
Spartakus
> Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > > rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
> > > > > > Anybody with a background in math would know that it's easy
> > > > > > to get a high average score if you simply eliminate all of the
> > > > > > low-scorers from the testing.
> This leaves out Spartakus, as seen in the following exchange, where
> he completely ignores the possibility that Maine may have hugely
> increased its participation, and that if it had not done so, SC might
> still have come in dead last:
Resorting to drive-by postings?
Spartakus
With your lies about fetal cannibalism and trafficking in fetal body
parts still fresh in readers' minds, it will take more than an empty
display of bravado to pull your puffy ass *out* of the fire.
Don't invest too much in your smilies. People are laughing *at* you,
not *with* you.
Spartakus
> Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
[--FauxNy runs away from Keegan's remarks again--]
> > Given that his "Saga" has the trappings of a research paper, what
> > are the odds he will take out the references to fetal cannibalism
> > and fetal body parts trafficking?
> I't's been published already, with the reference right in the first
> post to this thread. If I re-publish it,
An honest author/researcher/ahem/reasoner would, you know.
> the material on fetal body parts trafficking stays, perhaps with
> more up to date documentation,
Good luck finding any. The hysteria over "fetal body parts" pretty
much evaporated once Alberty recanted his testimony before Congress.
> and the stuff on fetal cannibalism goes unless I can find a reliable,
> permanent source.
Beware the snopes.com monster!
Ray Fischer
>On Feb 11, 7:53 pm, Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>> > > "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > As I documented in my follow-up to Spartakus
>> > and ran away from my remarks.
>>
>> > cute of you to reply to one of my posts and foolishly try to divert
>> > attention to another exchange.
>
>Keegan is a 99 44/100 pure [1] polemicist.
Unlike yourself who is only 99.996% polemicist.
> He shows no interest in the
>actual facts presented in my reply to Spartakus, deletes the remarks I
Whew! You're the match for heishman in irony!
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
james g. keegan jr.
<4a1ae940-2341-4b66...@o11g2000yql.googlegroups.com>,
Spartakus <spar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > > "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [--FauxNy runs away from Keegan's remarks again--]
as he so often does.
nyi...@bellsouth.net
> nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > It is also clear from this transcript that the pubic can still be
> > shocked by features of abortion far less monumental than the ending of
> > a human life it entails. Where born human beings (both adults and
> > children) are concerned, our civilization has deep-seated aversions to
> > improper treatment of their corpses, be it grinding and flushing,
> > dismemberment, or cannibalism. This evidently carries over to the same
> > treatment accorded to unborn children. Recent reports of cannibalism
> > of aborted fetuses in China [5] are another example of this,
In view of what transpires below, if I ever re-publish this paper
elsewhere, this will be changed to read something like this:
Western disgust over false rumors of cannibalism of
aborted fetuses in Taiwan, and unsubstantiated
rumors of the same thing happening in the
so-called "People's Republic" of China, [5]
are another example of this.
Unless, of course, reliable reports emerge of such cannibalism there
or elsewhere.
> Since PiNhead recently expressed some hurt feelings about
> "BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!",
Don't flatter yourself. What I said was that inappropriate uses of
this expression by you are suggestive of your having bipolar
disorder. If you seriously think *I* have hurt feelings about that,
this could be another symptom of bipolar disorder--or worse.
>I am struggling mightly to not laugh right now.
>
> And losing. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
You're losing it, all right, since this is yet another inappropriate
use. You are guilty of two misreadings, one excusable and one so
egregious that it calls your competence at interpreting sources into
question, just like your multiple misreadings of Wikipedia and USA
Today documented elsewhere on this thread.
> Surely, PiNhead is not so completely out of it that he doesn't know
> that this is an URBAN LEGEND that was debunked years ago.
I don't have the time to keep abreast of any but the most important
developments in the area of abortion.
> http://www.snopes.com/horrors/cannibal/fetus.asp
This has primarily to do with TAIWAN, about which I said nothing--when
I say "China" I mean the PRC. Even if *you* go along with the
official fiction that Taiwan is a part of China, you should still have
seen that their criticism of rumors pertaining to the PRC are less
definitive than those pertaining to Taiwan.
There have been authenticated instances of cannibalism (always where
the victim was allegedly dead already) in China; I'll report briefly
on one in a separate followup.
> > as are trafficking in fetal tissues and organs [6].
>
> And this was debunked years ago as well.
Here you are guilty of the basic fallacy of hasty generalization. You
believe Malapert's one expose negates the mountain of evidence that
had already been accumulated long before LDI was founded. But then,
this is SOP with you, isn't it, to think that one falsehood negates
everything pro-lifers ever wrote, isn't it?
>
> **************************************************************
> From: M is for Malapert <M_mem...@newsguy.com>
> Subject: "HE LIED THROUGH HIS TEETH" about selling baby body parts!
> Date: 2000/03/10
> Message-ID: <8abkq5$1l...@drn.newsguy.com>
> Newsgroups: talk.abortion
>
> BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
This is all Malapert's interpretation of the news, isn't it?
> The "Sale of Baby Body Parts" scandal screeched to an abrupt halt
> yesterday when star witness Lawrence Dean Alberty recanted the stories
> he had told and that had sparked a Congressional inquiry.
>
> His admission of dishonesty left those gullible enough to have
> believed the absurd charges with (fertilized?) egg on their faces.
> Alberty admitted that he was paid by the anti-abortion group Life
> Dynamics Inc., run by sleazemeister Mark Crutcher of "Slime 5" infamy,
Malapert seems to think that _Lime 5_ consists only of lies by
Crutcher, whereas it has one example after another taken directly from
reports in the mainstream press. Perhaps I should add her to the list
of "pro-abortionists": people who defend certain abortionists who
injure, rape, seduce, and sometimes kill women through negligence or
worse, against the people suing them for these atrocities.
> to make a video about unscrupulous "harvesting" practices, including
> the allegation that some fetal tissue samples were taken from live
> babies.
[remainder of Malapert's post deleted]
LDI was founded in 1992. Now look at the date of Suzanne Rini's book:
> > [6] Suzanne Rini, _Beyond _Abortion: A_Chronicle_of
> > _Fetal_Experimentation_, Magnificat Press, Avon, New Jersey, 1988.
> > Reprinted by TAN Books and Publishers, Inc., Rockford, Illinois,
> > 1993.
>
> Indeed.
The reprint is the same as the original 1988 edition, except for a
biographical sketch and some ads at the end of the latter. I have
copies of both. You should take a look at it some time; its first
example is taken directly from the _Washington Post_ .
Mrs. Rini is an excellent writer--I wish I could write as well, at my
best, as she does routinely.
> > [In 1994, I had a telephone conversation with Suzanne Rini in which
> > she told me that the French cosmetics company Californie Esthetique,
> > based near Marseilles, has a brochure which explicitly states that
> > they use collagen from human fetuses in their cosmetics.]
>
> Why should we believe her? She lied about harvesting fetal body parts.
If you retract this baseless charge in your follow-up (no actual
apology required), I won't hold it against you.
Peter Nyikos
nyi...@bellsouth.net
> nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > I too have done some research. For one thing, I actually watched the
> > > > whole 45 or so minutes of the program, John Stossel's 20/20 "Stupid in
> > > > America" on the YouTube, using the link given in the Wikipedia article
> > > > on Inez. It is a fascinating indictment of our public school system,
> > > > teachers' unions, and individual schools and educators. It lays a lot
> > > > of stress on conditions right here in South Carolina, none of the ones
> > > > aired being flattering.
>
> [--clumsy attempt at a cheap shot deleted--]
>
> > > John Stossel? "Libertarian" John Stossel?
> > So what? Your ally Partick Humphrey is a Libertarian too. Do you
> > happen to know whether the following sentence also fits Patrick?
>
> Patrick is a small "l" libertarian,
I got a different impression from the following exchange between us on
the thread, "talk.abortion old-timers":
------------------------------begin excerpt from Humphrey post
On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:39:33 -0800 (PST), nyik...@bellsouth.net
<nyik...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> On the thread, "Obama continues to falsify his infanticide record,"
> Patrick Humphrey wrote about our new President-elect:
>> Well, if he's elected tomorrow, you'll have something to do...
> Oh, I'll be informing people from time to time about the meaning of
> things like FOCA, which we're sure to be confronted with soon, but I
> never was much of a political activist.
Neither have I, and if I was, I'd have done something for the LP, but
almost
no one pays attention to the two 800-pound gorillas in the voting
booth.
>> Dale and I voted early, and I didn't vote for either of the Ds or Rs.
> Good for you, Patrick. I'd be very sorry if third parties vanished
> from the USA. Some of them have brought about some really good
> changes.
In my experience, the main difference between the Republicans and
Democrats
is: one is in power, and the other isn't.
------------------------end of excerpt
[about Stossel:]
> > > first he denied global warming,
> > the whole thing? or just the assertion that it is mostly man-made?
++++++++++++++Spartakus posting style on
<crickets chirping>
++++++++++++++Spartakus posting style off
> > The latter is disputed by many reputable climatologists and
> > meteorologists. Look up "Maunder minimum" in Wikipedia for the
> > other main contender for what it is mostly due to.
>
> (rolls eyes) Do your own homework.
I've done lots of it. wrt climate change, and I was only giving you a
clue as to where YOU could start your own research. But I get the
impression that you are only interested in doing research when it
gives you a leg up on your adversaries.
> > > then he tried to argue that global warming is *good* for the human
> > > race! Yeah, you sure have a nose for credible sources, Peter.
> > I didn't say *he* was credible. ...
>>What I saw with my own eyes was all I
>>needed for making the above statements, and everything I said about
>>your beloved Inez Tenenbaum.
I watched the whole ~45 minute video that is referenced in the
Wikipedia article on Inez; you haven't given a clue about whether you
watched any of it yourself.
> Once again, I am struggling mightly not to laugh.
>
> Oh, hell... BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Yet another inappropriate use of this manic laughter. The evidence of
you suffering from bipolar disorder continues to pile up.
Peter Nyikos
nyi...@bellsouth.net
> In article
> <07f18d66-1e87-472b-92c6-378d22ee8...@p2g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > Given that his "Saga" has the trappings of a research paper, what are
> > the odds he will take out the references to fetal cannibalism and
> > fetal body parts trafficking?
>
> ha ha. he is in deep trouble if his 'research' is similar to his posts
> here. he has no clue how to make an argument and support it with facts.
When did YOU ever try to make an on-topic argument and support it with
facts? You refused to come up with a single instance when I
challenged you in 1997, and in the whole of 1992-1997 I could find
just ONE post in which you said something meaningful about ABORTION,
as opposed to what various people are saying about it.
Peter Nyikos
> worse yet, when the facts refute his argument, he simply lies.
>
> that must be one great university.
>
> --
> "osprey knows that the people who see him as such a characterless,
> scumbag liar are seeing an accurate reflection of that he really is.
> osprey hates himself, as he should. so he strikes out at everyone who
> he feels is better than he is, which is everyone."
> --"james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com>
> <jgkeegan-C249BB.15222220022...@individual.net>
nyi...@bellsouth.net
was writing to see whether there were other comments by Keegan that
should be dealt with. I do so now.
On Feb 16, 11:22 am, nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> On Feb 11, 8:42 pm, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > ha ha. he is in deep trouble if his 'research' is similar to his posts
> > here. he has no clue how to make an argument and support it with facts.
>
> When did YOU ever try to make an on-topic argument and support it with
> facts? You refused to come up with a single instance when I
> challenged you in 1997, and in the whole of 1992-1997 I could find
> just ONE post in which you said something meaningful about ABORTION,
> as opposed to what various people are saying about it.
> > worse yet, when the facts refute his argument, he simply lies.
Yet another lie by Keegan to add to the multitude that I wrote about
in the tenth post in the "Sort by reply" tree of "Below-40-IQ
Simulation of the Month (Jan. 2009)".
> > that must be one great university.
The only time I run into the kind of dishonesty that I see day in and
day out from Keegan, Spartakus and Fischer is when I catch a student
cheating. Then I have to be prepared for an avalanche of as many lies
as the student thinks 'e [usually he, in my experience] can get away
with.
One case was especially memorable. I caught a student who wasn't even
enrolled in the class, turning in a test paper to which he put the
name of a student who WAS in the class. He kept insisting he WAS that
student. Even after I called a colleague in from the hall, to witness
just who was lying to me, the student stuck by his guns and said "I am
_________ and I can prove it. Just let me get back to my dorm and
I'll show you my ID card." On the advice of my colleague, I let him
go.
Of course, the person who returned was not him, but the actual student
for whom he had taken the test. He knew the jig was up, since he
didn't even resemble the other student physically, and my colleague
could easily have come by and said, "I saw the guy who claimed he was
you, and you aren't him." So he admitted that he had gotten the other
guy to take the test for him.
But for months, he refused to say who the other guy was, until,
threatened with expulsion and a promise of relative leniency for both
him and his pal, he got his pal to confess.
The result of the hearing before the committee on academic discipline
was a one-semester suspension for both of them. During the hearing, my
student even excused his unwillingness to identify his friend by
saying that this was considered by his peers to be even worse than
cheating--ratting on someone who had helped him.
Like Keegan, Spartakus and Fischer, he valued loyalty above truth.
Peter Nyikos
"osprey knows that the people who [claim massively to ]
see him as such a characterless, scumbag liar are seeing
an accurate reflection [of their own selves in their words.
they hate osprey, as their agenda forces them to do] .
so he strikes out at everyone who
nyi...@bellsouth.net
The first eight posts in the Google "Sort by reply" tree in "Below-40-
IQ Simulation of the Month (Jan. 2009)" show, beyond a reasonable
doubt, that it would be folly to believe anything Fischer, Keegan, or
Spartakus says without complete documentation.
On Feb 13, 12:12 am, rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
> <nyik...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >On Feb 11, 7:53 pm, Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >> "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> >> > > "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > As I documented in my follow-up to Spartakus
> >> > and ran away from my remarks.
>
> >> > cute of you to reply to one of my posts and foolishly try to divert
> >> > attention to another exchange.
>
> >Keegan is a 99 44/100 pure [1] polemicist.
>
> Unlike yourself who is only 99.996% polemicist.
A pure SOBA, this utterly false claim.
SOBA = Simulated Opinion Blatantly Asserted, a kissing cousin of TbBA
(Truth by Blatant Assertion).
> > He shows no interest in the
> >actual facts presented in my reply to Spartakus, deletes the remarks I
>
> Whew! You're the match for heishman in irony!
I am glad Fischer thinks Osprey is almost free of unintended
irony. :-)
Peter Nyikos
nyi...@bellsouth.net
Spare us the Keegan-style idiocy. These abortion newsgroups are all
too full of it as it is.
Peter Nyikos
james g. keegan jr.
<0d7214cb-145a-4b8c...@f20g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>,
nyi...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> Ray is indulging in puerile unsupported repartee below.
if that were truly the case, then readers would have seen that without
your assistance. of course, that was not the case, was it?
nyi...@bellsouth.net
> nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > Yep. You've become the coal car on the crazy train.
> > If so, you are deep inside the coal, along with Fischer and Keegan.
>
> > Better take care that the fireman does not shovel one of you into the
> > fire. :-)
>
> With your lies about fetal cannibalism and trafficking in fetal body
> parts
There were no lies in either category by me. See the long post I did
in followup to you earlier today for why you are closer to being
shoveled in than I am.
[GO half of Spartakus's GIGO deleted]
[baseless propaganda about people laughing at me, deleted]
Peter Nyikos
james g. keegan jr.
<b53d766e-f221-45b4...@t11g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>,
nyi...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> On Feb 11, 8:42 pm, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > In article
> > <07f18d66-1e87-472b-92c6-378d22ee8...@p2g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > Given that his "Saga" has the trappings of a research paper, what are
> > > the odds he will take out the references to fetal cannibalism and
> > > fetal body parts trafficking?
> >
> > ha ha. he is in deep trouble if his 'research' is similar to his posts
> > here. he has no clue how to make an argument and support it with facts.
>
> When did YOU ever try to make an on-topic argument and support it with
> facts?
oh whomever you are, don't be childish. people ee you based upon the
things you post. that is what dammed you. it' no one's fault but yours.
[...]
--
"osprey knows that the people who see him as such a characterless,
scumbag liar are seeing an accurate reflection of that he really is.
osprey hates himself, as he should. so he strikes out at everyone who
he feels is better than he is, which is everyone."
--"james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com>
<jgkeegan-C249BB...@individual.net>
james g. keegan jr.
<7b7b5bef-4a6c-46c5...@j35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
nyi...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> I was running short of time, so I forgot to scroll down below what I
stop making excuses for your failures.
[...remainder of self-serving garbage deleted...]
--
"osprey knows that the people who see him as such a characterless,
scumbag liar are seeing an accurate reflection of that he really is.
osprey hates himself, as he should. so he strikes out at everyone who
he feels is better than he is, which is everyone."
--"james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com>
<jgkeegan-C249BB...@individual.net>
james g. keegan jr.
<5ba053f3-dcfc-49ca...@l39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
nyi...@bellsouth.net wrote:
i see you're too intimidated by me to say anything like that in a direct
response to me. instead you tried to hide it in a response to spartacus.
Spartakus
> > Resorting to drive-by postings?
And you are now a leading contributor. Of idiocy, that is.
Thanks, I'll be here all week. Try the veal.
Spartakus
> Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > > Yep. You've become the coal car on the crazy train.
> > > If so, you are deep inside the coal, along with Fischer and Keegan.
> > >
> > > Better take care that the fireman does not shovel one of you into the
> > > fire. :-)
> > With your lies about fetal cannibalism and trafficking in fetal body
> > parts
> There were no lies in either category by me.
How can you tell such bald-faced lies and still take communion with a
clear conscience?
> See the long post I did in followup to you earlier today
> for why you are closer to being shoveled in than I am.
>
> [GO half of Spartakus's GIGO deleted]
>
> [baseless propaganda about people laughing at me, deleted]
That stung, huh?
Ray Fischer
>Ray is indulging in puerile unsupported repartee below.
fauNy is demonstraing his rank hypocrisy and dishonesty again.
> The first eight posts in the Google "Sort by reply" tree in "Below-40-
Irrelevant.
>On Feb 13, 12:12 am, rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>> <nyik...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> >On Feb 11, 7:53 pm, Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> >> "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>> >> > > "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > > As I documented in my follow-up to Spartakus
>> >> > and ran away from my remarks.
>>
>> >> > cute of you to reply to one of my posts and foolishly try to divert
>> >> > attention to another exchange.
>>
>> >Keegan is a 99 44/100 pure [1] polemicist.
>>
>> Unlike yourself who is only 99.996% polemicist.
>
>A pure SOBA, this utterly false claim.
Unlike your own, you dumbshit hypocrite?
Come on, asshole: Let's see YOUR objective evidence for YOUR claim.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
nyi...@bellsouth.net
published in:
_Life and Learning XV: Proceedings of the Fifteenth
University Faculty for Life Conference, 2005_,
ed. by Joseph W. Koterski, S.J., copyright 2006
by University Faculty for Life, 120 North Building,
Georgetown University, Washington, D. C. 20057
ISSN 1097-0878
The usual "fair use" and anti-plagiarism rules apply.
I repeat a few lines from an earlier post to set the stage.
> Ashley, back in studio:
> Senator McConnell told me that if the law allows an aborted fetus to
> be put down a garbage disposal, it shouldn't. And as a direct result
> of our I Team investigation, Senator McConnell says he plans to
> introduce legislation to require first-term abortion clinics to be
> certified by the Deptartment of Health and Environmental Control.
4. The Bill Passes
Senator McConnell was as good as his word, introducing the Abortion
Clinic Regulation Act in the 1993 General Assembly.
During Senate and House subcommittee hearings about the legislation,
post-aborted women told of bloody sheets, bloody cots, and dirty
bathrooms they encountered in various abortion clinics. One young
woman testified to a House subcommittee that she saw a dog in the
procedure room [8], and that the abortionist had cut her cervix
instead of dilating it properly.
Thanks to this testimony and the earlier public sensation created by
the TV special, the bill engendered very little opposition, and was
already passed by the Senate and approved by a House subcommittee
before the end of February 1994. Even
the executive director of Planned Parenthood of Central South
Carolina, professed to be in favor of it. [9] As Rep. Jim Klauber (R-
Greenwood) put it, ``This is not pro-life, pro-choice or pro-abortion
legislation. This is consumer legislation.''[10]
Endnotes:
[8] The State, Columbia, SC, Sunday, February 20, 1994, p. 1B
[9] *ibid*
[10] *ibid.*
TO BE CONTINUED
nyi...@bellsouth.net
> In article
> <c470c669-0778-4928-ad1f-e6ecd0275...@o11g2000yql.googlegroups.com>,
>
> nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > On Feb 11, 7:41 pm, Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > > > rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
> > > > > > > Anybody with a background in math would know that it's easy to get
> > > > > > > a high average score if you simply eliminate all of the low-scorers
> > > > > > > from the testing.
>
> > This leaves out Spartakus, as seen in the following exchange, where he
> > completely ignores the possibility that Maine may have hugely
> > increased its participation, and that if it had not done so, SC might
> > still have come in dead last
>
> were that the case, readers would have seen it
And they probably did see it, but they are either on your side and
will go along with any lie you tell about me or Spartakus, or they
know full well that if they start coming in on my side, they seriously
risk being accused of sucking up to me, just as I am repeatedly being
accused of sucking up to Osprey on the thread,
"Can Osprey get a fair trial in the abortion newsgroups?"
Peter Nyikos
nyi...@bellsouth.net
> nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > > > Yep. You've become the coal car on the crazy train.
> > > > If so, you are deep inside the coal, along with Fischer and Keegan.
>
> > > > Better take care that the fireman does not shovel one of you into the
> > > > fire. :-)
> > > With your lies about fetal cannibalism and trafficking in fetal body
> > > parts
> > There were no lies in either category by me.
The following loaded question by you is not only pure GIGO (Garbage
In, Garbage Out) but it also bespeaks a very superficial understanding
of the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist.
> How can you tell such bald-faced lies and still take communion with a
> clear conscience?
Go on, document what those alleged lies are. I'm curious to see
whether your explanation for why they are supposed to be lies
simulates any higher an IQ than your peremptory claim that the
following words of Osprey,
"You are truly insane, no wonder you've chosen your insane
allies in here."
constitute him alleging that
"asking for a source for a remarkable claim was a symptom of
insanity."
[Documentation in posts 2-7 in the thread, "Below-40-IQ Simulation of
the Month (Jan. 2009)" especially posts 2-4.]
> > See the long post I did in followup to you earlier today
> > for why you are closer to being shoveled in than I am.
The long post, done about seven hours earlier on February 16,
contained the reasons why none of what I said was a lie. After all
this time it remains unanswered by you, unless somehow Google split
this thread in two and there is another "The Saga" thread somewhere in
cyberspace.
> > [GO half of Spartakus's GIGO deleted]
>
> > [baseless propaganda about people laughing at me, deleted]
>
> That stung, huh?
Don't flatter yourself. What with you apparently running away from
my long post answering your charges wrt fetal cannibalism and
trafficking, and from your own shadow on posts 2-7 on the "Below-40-
IQ Simulation...(Jan 2009)" thread I mentioned above, you should
wonder whether people are laughing at you. As to why they don't say
so, only a very brave soul would dare incur the wrath of you, Keegan,
Fischer, Gwen, elizabeth, and the Chief Instigator by saying so.
Peter Nyikos
Ray Fischer
>On Feb 16, 10:07 pm, Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>> > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>> > > > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> > > > > Yep. You've become the coal car on the crazy train.
>> > > > If so, you are deep inside the coal, along with Fischer and Keegan.
>>
>> > > > Better take care that the fireman does not shovel one of you into the
>> > > > fire. :-)
>> > > With your lies about fetal cannibalism and trafficking in fetal body
>> > > parts
>> > There were no lies in either category by me.
>
>The following loaded question by you is not only pure GIGO (Garbage
>In, Garbage Out) but it also bespeaks a very superficial understanding
>of the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist.
LOL! Tell us, sleazebag: How long have YOU been an atheist?
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
nyi...@bellsouth.net
I almost became one when I was 36. Anyway, I have no idea why you are
asking the question.
This isn't the first time Spartakus showed his ignorance about the
topic. Over a month ago, he made some ignorant claims about
excommunication on the thread "When Person and Human Being Finally
Mean the Same Thing" and when I corrected him, he claimed he got the
"information" from his wife, who was an ex-Catholic.
There's more Spartakus-ignorance where that came from, but I'll wait
until I get some clue as to why you asked the question.
Peter Nyikos
nyi...@bellsouth.net
published in:
>
> _Life and Learning XV: Proceedings of the Fifteenth
> University Faculty for Life Conference, 2005_,
> ed. by Joseph W. Koterski, S.J., copyright 2006
> by University Faculty for Life, 120 North Building,
> Georgetown University, Washington, D. C. 20057
> ISSN 1097-0878
> The usual "fair use" and anti-plagiarism rules apply.
Meanwhile, the Women's Right to Know bill was being stalled by the
usual tactics of pro-``choice" legislators and organizations,
including intense lobbying against it by Planned Parenthood and NOW.
Finally it was pushed through the House where it won the overwhelming
endorsement of the Women's Caucus and passed by a lopsided (about 90%)
majority.
Then it got stalled for over two months in a Senate Subcommittee,
chaired by fanatically pro-``choice" Republican (!) State Senator
Holly Cork. It took took a televised press conference by the leaders
of American Victims of Abortion to even get her to schedule a
subcommittee meeting. It wasn't until May 1994, the last month of the
second legislative session, that
she even had her final subcommittee hearing on it. It seemed doomed
to die a death by delay, like its predecessors. ...
But then, in a move that made the pro-``choicers" howl
withindignation, Representative Roland Corning tacked the entire long
Women's Right to Know bill as an amendment onto the Clinic Regulation
Bill---and the House passed the whole new bill! Since the State
Senate had passed the original bill, the amended version circumvented
the subcommittee-committee process and went straight to the full
Senate floor. There, Holly Cork and her allies did their best to
either kill it or water it down, and they did succeed in watering it
down considerably, including the cutting down of the waiting period to
an essentially meaningless
1 hour. The House went along with the amendments because the
Lieutenant Governor at the time was a pro-choice Democrat, unlike pro-
life Republican Governor Carroll Campbell. [South Carolina has
separate elections for these two offices.] Had House and Senate not
agreed on a wording, the bill would have gone to a conference
committee and the Lieutenant Governor wouldprobably have appointed
Holly Cork as its chair. As it was, the bill finally passed before
the end of the session.
NEXT: The Long Wait and Its End
Spartakus
> Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Yep. You've become the coal car on the crazy train.
> > > > > If so, you are deep inside the coal, along with Fischer and Keegan.
> > > > > Better take care that the fireman does not shovel one of you into the
> > > > > fire. :-)
> > > > With your lies about fetal cannibalism and trafficking in fetal body
> > > > parts
> > > There were no lies in either category by me.
> The following loaded question by you is not only pure GIGO (Garbage
> In, Garbage Out) but it also bespeaks a very superficial understanding
> of the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist.
Because PiNhead says so.
> > How can you tell such bald-faced lies and still take communion with
> > a clear conscience?
> Go on, document what those alleged lies are. I'm curious to see
> whether your explanation for why they are supposed to be lies
> simulates any higher an IQ than your peremptory claim that the
> following words of Osprey,
Just about everything you have said about pro-choicers (including me)
are lies, PiNhead. You misrepresented the content and outcomes of
several threads from the early 1990s. Same applies for your claims
about abortion safety, "trafficking in fetal body parts", fetal
cannibalism, "fetal brain waves", and lots and lots of other topics
that don't immediately come to mind. You're a fucking liar.
> "You are truly insane, no wonder you've chosen your insane
> allies in here."
> constitute him alleging that
> "asking for a source for a remarkable claim was a symptom of
> insanity."
> [Documentation in posts 2-7 in the thread, "Below-40-IQ Simulation of
> the Month (Jan. 2009)" especially posts 2-4.]
That thread certainly didn't turn out the way you expected, did it?
> > > See the long post I did in followup to you earlier today
> > > for why you are closer to being shoveled in than I am.
> The long post, done about seven hours earlier on February 16,
> contained the reasons why none of what I said was a lie. After all
> this time it remains unanswered by you, unless somehow Google
> split this thread in two and there is another "The Saga" thread
> somewhere in cyberspace.
PiNhead, PiNhead, PiNhead. Please try to get something through your
head - if necessary, book some time at Stanford's linear accelerator
to drive this clue through your thick bonce - most people do not hang
on your every word. I missed that post, but for your peace of mind I
will backtrack and check it out. Not that I expect any thanks.
[--PiNhead's incoherent response to the news that people laugh *at*,
not *with* him deleted--]
Spartakus
> This isn't the first time Spartakus showed his ignorance about the
> topic. Over a month ago, he made some ignorant claims about
> excommunication on the thread "When Person and Human Being
> Finally Mean the Same Thing" and when I corrected him, he claimed
> he got the "information" from his wife, who was an ex-Catholic.
Stop lying, PiNhead. The Google is not your friend.
Spartakus
> > > This leaves out Spartakus, as seen in the following exchange, where
> > > he completely ignores the possibility that Maine may have hugely
> > > increased its participation, and that if it had not done so, SC might
> > > still have come in dead last
> > were that the case, readers would have seen it
> And they probably did see it, but they are either on your side and
> will go along with any lie you tell about me or Spartakus, or they
> know full well that if they start coming in on my side, they seriously
> risk being accused of sucking up to me, just as I am repeatedly
> being accused of sucking up to Osprey on the thread,
> "Can Osprey get a fair trial in the abortion newsgroups?"
Meanwhile, Occam is shopping for new razor blades.
Spartakus
> Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > It is also clear from this transcript that the pubic can still be
> > > shocked by features of abortion far less monumental than the ending
> > > of a human life it entails. Where born human beings (both adults and
> > > children) are concerned, our civilization has deep-seated aversions to
> > > improper treatment of their corpses, be it grinding and flushing,
> > > dismemberment, or cannibalism. This evidently carries over to the same
> > > treatment accorded to unborn children. Recent reports of cannibalism
> > > of aborted fetuses in China [5] are another example of this,
> In view of what transpires below, if I ever re-publish this paper
> elsewhere, this will be changed to read something like this:
>
> Western disgust over false rumors of cannibalism
> of aborted fetuses in Taiwan, and unsubstantiated
> rumors of the same thing happening in the
> so-called "People's Republic" of China, [5]
> are another example of this.
Why not delete the passage altogether? Otherwise, one could write
with equal authority:
"unsubstantiated rumors that FauxNy molests
small, defenseless animals are another
reason why the abortion newsgroups are
disgusted with him"
> Unless, of course, reliable reports emerge of such cannibalism there
> or elsewhere.
Unless, of course, reliable reports emerge of such molestations at USC
or the DoC.
Maybe it would be a good idea to invoke the Peggy Noonan rule*.
> > Since PiNhead recently expressed some hurt feelings about
> > "BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!",
> Don't flatter yourself. What I said was that inappropriate uses of
> this expression by you are suggestive of your having bipolar
> disorder. If you seriously think *I* have hurt feelings about that,
> this could be another symptom of bipolar disorder--or worse.
Get a grip, Mrs. Grundy.
[--PiNhead elaborates on his grundy-ness; deleted--]
> > Surely, PiNhead is not so completely out of it that he doesn't know
> > that this is an URBAN LEGEND that was debunked years ago.
> I don't have the time to keep abreast of any but the most important
> developments in the area of abortion.
That's rich, coming from someone who persists in using sources that
have been superceded by later research.
> >http://www.snopes.com/horrors/cannibal/fetus.asp
> This has primarily to do with TAIWAN, about which I said nothing--when
> I say "China" I mean the PRC. Even if *you* go along with the
> official fiction that Taiwan is a part of China, you should still have
> seen that their criticism of rumors pertaining to the PRC are less
> definitive than those pertaining to Taiwan.
This is just more of your typical obfuscation. The article deals with
several rumors of fetal cannibalism in both Taiwan and China. It
focused on the most famous example - the photograph, which turned out
to be that of a performance artist tucking into a duck carcass decked
out with a doll's head.
> There have been authenticated instances of cannibalism (always
> where the victim was allegedly dead already) in China; I'll report
> briefly on one in a separate followup.
Be sure to reflect on the horrific experience of the Donner Party
before posting.
> > > as are trafficking in fetal tissues and organs [6].
> > And this was debunked years ago as well.
> Here you are guilty of the basic fallacy of hasty generalization. You
> believe Malapert's one expose negates the mountain of evidence that
> had already been accumulated long before LDI was founded. But then,
> this is SOP with you, isn't it, to think that one falsehood negates
> everything pro-lifers ever wrote, isn't it?
One book that never achieved wide readership except among anti-
choicers does not a mountain of evidence make.
> > **************************************************************
> > From: M is for Malapert <M_mem...@newsguy.com>
> > Subject: "HE LIED THROUGH HIS TEETH" about selling baby body parts!
> > Date: 2000/03/10
> > Message-ID: <8abkq5$1...@drn.newsguy.com>
> > Newsgroups: talk.abortion
>
> > BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
>
> This is all Malapert's interpretation of the news, isn't it?
Oh, you just hate that laughter, don't you?
> > The "Sale of Baby Body Parts" scandal screeched to an abrupt halt
> > yesterday when star witness Lawrence Dean Alberty recanted the
> > stories he had told and that had sparked a Congressional inquiry.
> >
> > His admission of dishonesty left those gullible enough to have
> > believed the absurd charges with (fertilized?) egg on their faces.
> > Alberty admitted that he was paid by the anti-abortion group Life
> > Dynamics Inc., run by sleazemeister Mark Crutcher of "Slime 5" infamy,
> Malapert seems to think that _Lime 5_ consists only of lies by
> Crutcher, whereas it has one example after another taken directly from
> reports in the mainstream press. Perhaps I should add her to the list
> of "pro-abortionists": people who defend certain abortionists who
> injure, rape, seduce, and sometimes kill women through negligence or
> worse, against the people suing them for these atrocities.
Lime 5 is a poster child for bearing false witness. It got a good
going-over both in the mainstream press and in these newsgroups. It
is thoroughly discredited, as is everything else that Mark Crutcher
had a hand in creating.
> > to make a video about unscrupulous "harvesting" practices, including
> > the allegation that some fetal tissue samples were taken from live
> > babies.
> [remainder of Malapert's post deleted]
We always have the googles.
> LDI was founded in 1992. Now look at the date of Suzanne Rini's book:
> > > [6] Suzanne Rini, _Beyond _Abortion: A_Chronicle_of
> > > _Fetal_Experimentation_, Magnificat Press, Avon, New Jersey, 1988.
> > > Reprinted by TAN Books and Publishers, Inc., Rockford, Illinois,
> > > 1993.
And these rumors of "trafficking in fetal body parts" were drowned in
the bath tub by one of its principal purveyors in 2000.
It is now 2009, and the only people who play that particular gambit
are the sort of people who believe that Barack Obama is Malcolm X's
love child.**
[--PiNhead's fan mail to Suzanne Rini deleted--]
> > > [In 1994, I had a telephone conversation with Suzanne Rini in which
> > > she told me that the French cosmetics company Californie Esthetique,
> > > based near Marseilles, has a brochure which explicitly states that
> > > they use collagen from human fetuses in their cosmetics.]
> > Why should we believe her? She lied about harvesting fetal body parts.
> If you retract this baseless charge in your follow-up (no actual
> apology required), I won't hold it against you.
Like hell, you wouldn't.
* "Is it irresponsible to speculate? It would be irresponsible not
to."
** Yes, people are that crazy.
Spartakus
> Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > > I too have done some research. For one thing, I actually watched the
> > > > > whole 45 or so minutes of the program, John Stossel's 20/20 "Stupid in
> > > > > America" on the YouTube, using the link given in the Wikipedia article
> > > > > on Inez. It is a fascinating indictment of our public school system,
> > > > > teachers' unions, and individual schools and educators. It lays a lot
> > > > > of stress on conditions right here in South Carolina, none of the ones
> > > > > aired being flattering.
> > > > John Stossel? "Libertarian" John Stossel?
> > > So what? Your ally Partick Humphrey is a Libertarian too. Do you
> > > happen to know whether the following sentence also fits Patrick?
> > Patrick is a small "l" libertarian,
> I got a different impression from the following exchange between us on
> the thread, "talk.abortion old-timers":
He actually described himself in those terms - "lower case
libertarian", "small 'l' libertarian", etc. He lives in Texas, which
isn't exactly a battleground state, so he has the luxury of voting for
whatever candidates matches his political priorities - which could be
Libertarian, or whatever.
> > > > first [[Stossel] denied global warming,
> > > the whole thing? or just the assertion that it is mostly man-made?
>
> ++++++++++++++Spartakus posting style on
>
> <crickets chirping>
>
> ++++++++++++++Spartakus posting style off
Thanks for the clear demonstration of your unalloyed dickheadedness,
PiNhead.
> > > The latter is disputed by many reputable climatologists and
> > > meteorologists. Look up "Maunder minimum" in Wikipedia for the
> > > other main contender for what it is mostly due to.
> > (rolls eyes) Do your own homework.
> I've done lots of it. wrt climate change, and I was only giving you a
> clue as to where YOU could start your own research. But I get the
> impression that you are only interested in doing research when it
> gives you a leg up on your adversaries.
You can discontinue your test of your TotalDickHead posting software -
you've convinced me.
> > > > then he tried to argue that global warming is *good* for the human
> > > > race! Yeah, you sure have a nose for credible sources, Peter.
> > > I didn't say *he* was credible. ...
> >>What I saw with my own eyes was all I
> >>needed for making the above statements, and everything I said about
> >>your beloved Inez Tenenbaum.
> I watched the whole ~45 minute video that is referenced in the
> Wikipedia article on Inez; you haven't given a clue about whether
> you watched any of it yourself.
Actually, I'm pretty sure I *haven't* watched it. I'm also pretty
sure there is no compelling reason why I should.
> > Once again, I am struggling mightly not to laugh.
> >
> > Oh, hell... BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
> Yet another inappropriate use of this manic laughter. The evidence
> of you suffering from bipolar disorder continues to pile up.
Oh, you *really* hate being laughed at, don't you? Get used to it.
Ray Fischer
> Meanwhile, the Women's Right to Know bill was being stalled by the
>usual tactics of pro-``choice" legislators and organizations,
Because it has nothing at all to do with any right to know and is an
attempt to force pro-lie indoctrination upon women wanting an
abortion.
Women ALREADY have the right to know everything they want to know
about the subject.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
>On Feb 25, 10:43 pm, rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>> <nyik...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> >On Feb 16, 10:07 pm, Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> >> nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>> >> > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> >> > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>> >> > > > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> >> > > > > Yep. You've become the coal car on the crazy train.
>> >> > > > If so, you are deep inside the coal, along with Fischer and Keegan.
>>
>> >> > > > Better take care that the fireman does not shovel one of you into the
>> >> > > > fire. :-)
>> >> > > With your lies about fetal cannibalism and trafficking in fetal body
>> >> > > parts
>> >> > There were no lies in either category by me.
>>
>> >The following loaded question by you is not only pure GIGO (Garbage
>> >In, Garbage Out) but it also bespeaks a very superficial understanding
>> >of the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist.
>>
>
>I almost became one when I was 36. Anyway, I have no idea why you are
>asking the question.
Then you really are quite stupid.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Spartakus
> Meanwhile, the Women's Right to Know bill was being stalled
> by the usual tactics of pro-``choice" legislators and organizations,
In the interest of accuracy, shouldn't it have been called the
"Women's Right To Be Lied To By Their Doctors" bill?
The Chief Instigator
> nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>> Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>> > > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> > > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>
>> > > > > I too have done some research. For one thing, I actually watched the
>> > > > > whole 45 or so minutes of the program, John Stossel's 20/20 "Stupid in
>> > > > > America" on the YouTube, using the link given in the Wikipedia article
>> > > > > on Inez. It is a fascinating indictment of our public school system,
>> > > > > teachers' unions, and individual schools and educators. It lays a lot
>> > > > > of stress on conditions right here in South Carolina, none of the ones
>> > > > > aired being flattering.
>
>> > > > John Stossel? "Libertarian" John Stossel?
>
>> > > So what? Your ally Partick Humphrey is a Libertarian too. Do you
>> > > happen to know whether the following sentence also fits Patrick?
>
>> > Patrick is a small "l" libertarian,
>
>> I got a different impression from the following exchange between us on
>> the thread, "talk.abortion old-timers":
>
> He actually described himself in those terms - "lower case
> libertarian", "small 'l' libertarian", etc. He lives in Texas, which
> isn't exactly a battleground state, so he has the luxury of voting for
> whatever candidates matches his political priorities - which could be
> Libertarian, or whatever.
Indeed...and I didn't vote LP last November 5th, but I voted for former
Libertarian Ron Paul (who is still one of the locals in this part of Texas).
I appreciate the wonders of this world, where Phoney can't even fake himself
anywhere near credibly.
--
Patrick L. "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (pat...@io.com) Houston, Texas
www.io.com/~patrick/aeros.php (TCI's 2008-09 Houston Aeros) AA#2273
LAST GAME: Houston 2, Iowa 1 (SO, February 21)
NEXT GAME: Friday, February 27 vs. Rockford, 7:35
elizabeth
Yeah, us wimminfolk, we don't know nothin; that's why the menfolks
gotta tell us what we think and why all of us just want to be like
Nadya and spew cuntnuggets until our wombs fall out.
It's pretty clear that all antiabort males are the product of women
who should have been spayed like dogs.
james g. keegan jr.
<06311b4f-fa47-4050...@v31g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
nyi...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> On Feb 12, 6:28 pm, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > In article
> > <c470c669-0778-4928-ad1f-e6ecd0275...@o11g2000yql.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > On Feb 11, 7:41 pm, Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > > > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > > > > rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
> > > > > > > > Anybody with a background in math would know that it's easy to
> > > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > a high average score if you simply eliminate all of the
> > > > > > > > low-scorers
> > > > > > > > from the testing.
> >
> > > This leaves out Spartakus, as seen in the following exchange, where he
> > > completely ignores the possibility that Maine may have hugely
> > > increased its participation, and that if it had not done so, SC might
> > > still have come in dead last
> >
> > were that the case, readers would have seen it
>
> And they probably did see it, but they are either on your side and
> will go along with any lie you tell about me
you have yet to document that i ever posted any lie about you, whomever
you are.
as far as people being on my side relative to my discussions with you,
well of course they are you imbecile!!
--
"You tried to steal the identity of a James G. Keegan Jr. who did in
fact author a book, and you're trying to convince people that you are
the same person." -- corrupt prison clerk heishman lying as "Osprey"
in an effort to cover-up his earlier lie that i was not an author
<noneedtok...@mail.com>
in<v4qdndNQW_fFAMXanZ2dnUVZ_sOrn...@comcast.com>
nyi...@bellsouth.net
Judging from your wacko performance on the thread where you confused
Spartakus's assertions about un-named pro-lifers with my words, I
suspect either:
(1) you don't know why you asked the question either, and are just
trying to cover up by bluffing or
(2) my answer wasn't what you were hoping for, so you deleted almost
all of it so that your question might still seem plausible:
=====repost of rest of answer
This isn't the first time Spartakus showed his ignorance about the
topic. Over a month ago, he made some ignorant claims about
excommunication on the thread "When Person and Human Being Finally
Mean the Same Thing" and when I corrected him, he claimed he got the
"information" from his wife, who was an ex-Catholic.
There's more Spartakus-ignorance where that came from, but I'll wait
until I get some clue as to why you asked the question.
==================== end of repost
OR
(3) you didn't want me to go any further into Spartakus's ignorance,
SOME of which might have been avoided by him asking his wife for
information.
Peter Nyikos
Ray Fischer
Smirk. You really do have a selective memory.
>(1) you don't know why you asked the question either,
No, you really are stupid. Maybe if you weren't senile and could
remmeber making claims about other people's supposed atheism you might
be able to connect the dots. But as many people have noted, your
"intellect" isn't the sharpest.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
The Chief Instigator
Sharpest? Butter knives have a razor edge, compared to his "sharpness".
--
Patrick L. "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (pat...@io.com) Houston, Texas
www.io.com/~patrick/aeros.php (TCI's 2008-09 Houston Aeros) AA#2273
LAST GAME: Milwaukee 3, Houston 2 (March 1)
NEXT GAME: Thursday, March 5 vs. Grand Rapids, 7:05
Spartakus
[--FauxNy stupidity deleted--]
> =====repost of rest of answer
> This isn't the first time Spartakus showed his ignorance about the
> topic. Over a month ago, he made some ignorant claims about
> excommunication on the thread "When Person and Human Being Finally
> Mean the Same Thing" and when I corrected him, he claimed he got the
> "information" from his wife, who was an ex-Catholic.
>
> There's more Spartakus-ignorance where that came from, but I'll wait
> until I get some clue as to why you asked the question.
> ==================== end of repost
I called you out on these lies last week, perfesser. No response.
Did you run away?
[--FauxNy's stupidity deleted--]
nyi...@bellsouth.net
> nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > > > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Yep. You've become the coal car on the crazy train.
> > > > > > If so, you are deep inside the coal, along with Fischer and Keegan.
> > > > > > Better take care that the fireman does not shovel one of you into the
> > > > > > fire. :-)
> > > > > With your lies about fetal cannibalism and trafficking in fetal body
> > > > > parts
> > > > There were no lies in either category by me.
> > The following loaded question by you is not only pure GIGO (Garbage
> > In, Garbage Out) but it also bespeaks a very superficial understanding
> > of the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist.
>
> Because PiNhead says so.
No, because you obviously don't know what constitutes lying
sufficiently grave to bar one from communion. Did you know, for
instance, that this sacrament actually *removes* venial sins?
> > > How can you tell such bald-faced lies and still take communion with
> > > a clear conscience
I didn't even commit a venial sin of lying wrt those two topics,
because everything I posted was correct to the best of my knowledge; I
removed the one footnote from the original that I knew to be, at best,
undocumentable.
> > Go on, document what those alleged lies are. I'm curious to see
> > whether your explanation for why they are supposed to be lies
> > simulates any higher an IQ than your peremptory claim that the
> > following words of Osprey,
You ducked this challenge, rambling in undocumented meta-discussion
and indulging in several dirty debating tricks along the way.
Deleted, to be dealt with in my own good time. Look up "Koltanowski
Sanction" in Google if you are curious as to what I mean by that here.
Peter Nyikos
nyi...@bellsouth.net
I never started.
As usual, you didn't even try to claim what the truth was, let alone
document whatever claim you had in mind, if any.
But I'll help you along. I see now that I carelessly worded it so
that it seemed that you were saying you got more than one ignorant
assertion from your wife, when you only admitted to having used her
for a source for one. You made another stupid claim that you may not
have even had the prudence to check with her about it.
Happy now?
Peter Nyikos
nyi...@bellsouth.net
Hekhuis, Keegan, Spartakus, Fischer et l'Instigateur Principal"
<efran...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 26, 9:38 pm, Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > Meanwhile, the Women's Right to Know bill was being stalled
> > > by the usual tactics of pro-``choice" legislators and organizations,
>
> > In the interest of accuracy, shouldn't it have been called the
> > "Women's Right To Be Lied To By Their Doctors" bill?
No, the most accurate title would be "Women's right to be informed by
abortion providers about various things they may not have been able
to find out about bill."
For some idea of what might come under that rubric, see:
http://www.kfl.org
and click on
CLICK HERE FOR SB 238 info
to see how a similar Kansas bill reads.
> Yeah, us wimminfolk, we don't know nothin;
...and you want them kept ignorant of what the child they are carrying
looks like, eh? Here is one excerpt from the Kansas website:
KDHE will feature a medically accurate ultrasound video online
showing fetal development.
Unfortunately, the state’s fetal development pamphlet uses some static
photos and line art drawings. Women deserve an easy click to a state-
sponsored site using actual video sonography at 2 week increments, as
the bill requires, because deceptive abortion counseling and
withholding of pertinent information still occurs.
KayLyn, Carrie and Barb testified that they (and many women)
experience profound horror and depression when they later see an
ultrasound that matches the gestational age of the baby they aborted
and discover the actual advanced development and that it was NOT “just
a blob,” as the clinic had said.
2) KDHE will add a list of statewide locations for free sonograms to
the required information book.
76 pregnancy centers across Kansas offer maternal assistance and
counseling, without cost, to women; 14 of these centers, in 11 cities,
currently offer FREE ultrasound. The state of Kansas produces a
booklet, “If You are Pregnant.” last reprinted in 2005. It will be
easy to add a listing for free ultrasound services.
-------------end of excerpt
>that's why the menfolks
> gotta tell us what we think and why all of us just want to be like
> Nadya and spew cuntnuggets until our wombs fall out.
You just don't want women to know about all the free help they can get
from pro-life providers, do you? That's part of what's in the bill,
getting women informed about options they may not have heard about, as
above.
Here's antother excerpt:
4) 24 hours before an abortion, the abortion clinics will provide
contacts for free counseling and hospice for fetuses with lethal
diagnoses.. Too many women like conferees Brenda and Megan are
horrified to be sent to abortion clinics for their medically
challenging pregnancies, when free, top-notch coordinated assistance
is available in Kansas City and Wichita.
State law already requires information be secured by women one day
prior to abortion, and adding the connections to medical care, grief
counseling and disability support systems should pose no difficulty.
--------- end of excerpt
> It's pretty clear that all antiabort males are the product of women
> who should have been spayed like dogs.
And if women are coerced into abortion, tough apples, eh? A final
excerpt:
5) Abortion facilities will be required to post a prominent sign
onsite that a forced abortion decision is illegal and that law
enforcement is available to protect against real or threatened abuse.
Although abortion is technically an elective procedure, studies
indicate over 60% of abortions are coerced, such as the case Michelle
and Laurie testified about.
Coercion takes many forms. profit-driven "counseling," using of
biased literature; abuse of authority, threats to welfare and bodily
harm. Pressure to abort can come from friends, employers and loved
ones. Serious threats can escalate to violence or homicide – the
leading killer of pregnant women in America.
Peter Nyikos
nyi...@bellsouth.net
how the longer half of the saga was yet to come.
The whole article was published in:
> _Life and Learning XV: Proceedings of the Fifteenth
> University Faculty for Life Conference, 2005_,
> ed. by Joseph W. Koterski, S.J., copyright 2006
> by University Faculty for Life, 120 North Building,
> Georgetown University, Washington, D. C. 20057
> ISSN 1097-0878
> The usual "fair use" and anti-plagiarism rules apply.
5. The Long Wait and Its End
Even so, it was not until January 12, 1995 that Governor Carroll
Campbell,
in one of the last acts of his administration, finally signed the
bill.
Then DHEC went to work, as mandated by the bill, to draft the various
regulations themselves. The General Assembly then gave its approval
to the regulations, and the regulations were due to take effect on
June 28, 1996. One day before that, however, came the lawsuit
everyone
could have predicted, in the form of the Greenville Women's Clinic,
the Charleston Women's Medical Clinic, and abortionist William Lynn,
bringing suit in the Federal District Court. They alleged that the
regulations were ``unconstitutionally vague, unduly burdensome and
irrational.'' The District Court trial was delayed for almost two
years, during which time a temporary restraining order enjoined
defendants from enforcing the challenged regulations.
Arguments were finally heard on October 9, 1998, and the Act was
declared unconstitutional under the 14th Amendment on February
5, 1999. This decision was appealed to the US Court of Appeals for
the 4th Circuit, which reversed it on a 2-1 vote on August 15, 2000.
Then on February 26, 2001, the US Supreme Court declined to hear
the case, letting this decision stand.
Still the law could not go into effect, because a second suit was
brought alleging that the provision for turning over patient records
to DHEC was a violation of privacy. Again the District Court found for
the plaintiffs, and the Court of Appeals reversed this decision as
well.
The regulations finally went into effect when the US Supreme Court on
April 29, 2003 announced it would not hear the appeal of the decision
of the Court of Appeals. [11]
It wasn't long before the enforcement of the regulations had a
tangible
effect. In July, an abortion clinic in Greenville named the
Palmetto State Medical Center closed. According to abortionist William
Lynn, the straw that broke the camel's back was the safety regulations
in the Act: the people running the clinic did not think it would be
profitable to abide by the regulations.
[11] The State, Columbia, SC, Tuesday, April 29, 2003, p. 1B
TO BE CONCLUDED
Spartakus
As our esteemed eminence grise would say, "posting new lies to cover
up your previous lies isn't helping you".
> Deleted, to be dealt with in my own good time. Look up "Koltanowski
> Sanction" in Google if you are curious as to what I mean by that here.
OK, googling...
"A clue as to how the Koltanowski Sanction works may
be found in the talk.origins thread, 'Enough! (was Re:
Quiz For Peter And Steve)'."
Message-ID: <4foff6$g...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>
Doop-de-doo, googling way....
"A description of the Koltanowski Sanction will be given
next week."
Message-ID: <4fg3b9$p...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>
WTF? Another snipe hunt? Anyway, this sounds ominous!
Spartakus
> Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > This isn't the first time Spartakus showed his ignorance about the
> > > topic. Over a month ago, he made some ignorant claims about
> > > excommunication on the thread "When Person and Human Being
> > > Finally Mean the Same Thing" and when I corrected him, he claimed
> > > he got the "information" from his wife, who was an ex-Catholic.
> > Stop lying, PiNhead.
> I never started.
You're pulling the same crap that Nyikos 1.0 did 12 to 16 years ago!
Spartakus
> elizabeth " l'alt.abortion c'est moi, Gwen,
> Hekhuis, Keegan, Spartakus, Fischer et l'Instigateur Principal" <efran...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 26, 9:38 pm, Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > Meanwhile, the Women's Right to Know bill was being stalled
> > > > by the usual tactics of pro-``choice" legislators and organizations,
> > > In the interest of accuracy, shouldn't it have been called the
> > > "Women's Right To Be Lied To By Their Doctors" bill?
> No, the most accurate title would be "Women's right to be informed by
> abortion providers about various things they may not have been able
> to find out about bill."
You mean things like "abortion has been linked to breast cancer",
which IIRC, is mandated by the Texas Right-to-Lie Law?
Ray Fischer
>On Feb 27, 8:35 pm, elizabeth " l'alt.abortion c'est moi, Gwen,
>Hekhuis, Keegan, Spartakus, Fischer et l'Instigateur Principal"
><efran...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 26, 9:38 pm, Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>
>> > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>> > > Meanwhile, the Women's Right to Know bill was being stalled
>> > > by the usual tactics of pro-``choice" legislators and organizations,
>>
>> > In the interest of accuracy, shouldn't it have been called the
>> > "Women's Right To Be Lied To By Their Doctors" bill?
>
>No, the most accurate title would be "Women's right to be informed by
>abortion providers about various things they may not have been able
>to find out about bill."
They already have such a right, proliar.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
>On Feb 26, 10:18 pm, Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>> > This isn't the first time Spartakus showed his ignorance about the
>> > topic. Over a month ago, he made some ignorant claims about
>> > excommunication on the thread "When Person and Human Being
>> > Finally Mean the Same Thing" and when I corrected him, he claimed
>> > he got the "information" from his wife, who was an ex-Catholic.
>>
>> Stop lying, PiNhead.
>
>I never started.
Stop lying, fauxNy.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
james g. keegan jr.
<f87771ca-2d74-42c4...@u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
Spartakus <spar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
interesting behavior, isn't it?
james g. keegan jr.
<1b2fbd38-cb61-44c4...@i2g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
Spartakus <spar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> On Mar 4, 3:22 pm, nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
[...]
> > You ducked this challenge, rambling in undocumented meta-discussion
> > and indulging in several dirty debating tricks along the way.
>
> As our esteemed eminence grise would say, "posting new lies to cover
> up your previous lies isn't helping you".
gosh, i am flattered.
nyi...@bellsouth.net
> On Mar 4, 3:22 pm, nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 26, 10:05 pm, Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > > > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > > > > > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Yep. You've become the coal car on the crazy train.
> > > > > > > > If so, you are deep inside the coal, along with Fischer and Keegan.
> > > > > > > > Better take care that the fireman does not shovel one of you into the
> > > > > > > > fire. :-)
> > > > > > > With your lies about fetal cannibalism and trafficking in fetal body
> > > > > > > parts
> > > > > > There were no lies in either category by me.
> > > > The following loaded question by you is not only pure GIGO (Garbage
> > > > In, Garbage Out) but it also bespeaks a very superficial understanding
> > > > of the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist.
>
> > > Because PiNhead says so.
>
> > No, because you obviously don't know what constitutes lying
> > sufficiently grave to bar one from communion. Did you know, for
> > instance, that this sacrament actually *removes* venial sins?
[crickets chirping]
> > > > > How can you tell such bald-faced lies and still take communion with
> > > > > a clear conscience
>
> > I didn't even commit a venial sin of lying wrt those two topics,
> > because everything I posted was correct to the best of my knowledge; I
> > removed the one footnote from the original that I knew to be, at best,
> > undocumentable.
[crickets chirping]
> > > > Go on, document what those alleged lies are. I'm curious to see
> > > > whether your explanation for why they are supposed to be lies
> > > > simulates any higher an IQ than your peremptory claim that the
> > > > following words of Osprey,
[crickets chirping]
> > You ducked this challenge, rambling in undocumented meta-discussion
> > and indulging in several dirty debating tricks along the way.
>
> As our esteemed eminence grise would say, "posting new lies to cover
> up your previous lies isn't helping you".
The chirping crickets agree that you are talking about yourself, not
me. ;-)
> > Deleted, to be dealt with in my own good time. Look up "Koltanowski
> > Sanction" in Google if you are curious as to what I mean by that here.
>
> OK, googling...
>
> "A clue as to how the Koltanowski Sanction works may
> be found in the talk.origins thread, 'Enough! (was Re:
> Quiz For Peter And Steve)'."
> Message-ID: <4foff6$...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>
>
> Doop-de-doo, googling way....
>
> "A description of the Koltanowski Sanction will be given
> next week."
> Message-ID: <4fg3b9$...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>
>
> WTF? Another snipe hunt? Anyway, this sounds ominous!
I admit, I should have given you more of a clue. Rather than keep you
in suspense any longer (it's been almost a month since you said this,
I'll quote from the primary source.
...But when a player continues to play on in spite
of a lost game, be it a Queen and two Rooks down or
several Pawns down in a simple ending, then all
enjoyment goes, for the blindfold player as well
as the audience.
In an exhibition at Manazares, Spain, I started
at 11 P.M. against eight boards. By 2 A.M. I had
won three games and drawn one. Four wood-shifters
played on, each of them at least a Queen behind.
I was tired, and had to catch a train at 6 A.M.
for the next stop on my tour. The spectators were
starting to leave, and I decided to teach the
boys a lesson.
"Sen~ores!" I said. "You are good Spaniards. You
may be caballeros, or picadors. You may have knives
in your belts, and tempers as sharp as the edges of
your blades. No matter! I am going to be as rude
to you as you are to me. I am going to sleep!"
And so I did. I awoke at 5:15 A.M.--and they were still
there! I resumed play, mating one on the second move
and the others a few moves later. The officials of
the club managed to get me to the railroad station
safely. They were wild with anger, but so was I.
--George Koltanowski, _Adventures of a Chess
Master_, New York, David McKay Company, Inc.,
1955.
If you had persevered, you might have found this in the following
place:
Subject: Re: Enough! (was Re: Quiz For Peter And Steve)
Date: 1996/02/12
Message-ID: <4fo0fl$9...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>#1/1
newsgroups: talk.origins
In anticipation of Google shenanigans with the message-ID, the part
before the @ went like this: 4fo0fl$9sa
Peter Nyikos
nyi...@bellsouth.net
"the same crap" means, apparently, denying false claims about me. If
you disagree, post what you consider to be the truth about what I said
in this post.
Is it something as trivial as me saying she "was" an ex-Catholic
instead of *is* an ex-Catholic?
nyi...@bellsouth.net
> nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > elizabeth " l'alt.abortion c'est moi, Gwen,
> > Hekhuis, Keegan, Spartakus, Fischer et l'Instigateur Principal" <efran...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Feb 26, 9:38 pm, Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > > Meanwhile, the Women's Right to Know bill was being stalled
> > > > > by the usual tactics of pro-``choice" legislators and organizations,
> > > > In the interest of accuracy, shouldn't it have been called the
> > > > "Women's Right To Be Lied To By Their Doctors" bill?
> > No, the most accurate title would be "Women's right to be informed by
> > abortion providers about various things they may not have been able
> > to find out about bill."
>
> You mean things like "abortion has been linked to breast cancer",
> which IIRC, is mandated by the Texas Right-to-Lie Law?
...but not by the South Carolina law, which was drafted long before
such things were mandated by other states.
Peter Nyikos
nyi...@bellsouth.net
I didn't want to make the title any longer, but the point of the law
is that women are not *told* that they have the right to hear certain
facts, like what the gestational age of her child is, what
alternatives there are to abortion, etc.
Now they do, although I don't know whether the telling has to be
audible or whether it can just be buried in a huge bunch of written
verbiage, like those forms we all have to sign when going to a doctor
we're seeing for the first time.
I can find out, if anyone reading this is curious.
Peter Nyikos
nyi...@bellsouth.net
> TO BE CONCLUDED
Well, I didn't think it would take me this long to get around to it,
but here are the epilogue and coda to the main part of the Saga,
published at the end of the article I've been quoting from, which was
published in:
> _Life and Learning XV: Proceedings of the Fifteenth
> University Faculty for Life Conference, 2005_,
> ed. by Joseph W. Koterski, S.J., copyright 2006
> by University Faculty for Life, 120 North Building,
> Georgetown University, Washington, D. C. 20057
> ISSN 1097-0878
> The usual "fair use" and anti-plagiarism rules apply.
This final installment contains something that I believe will make
Spartakus, Fischer, and perhaps others salivate all over their
keyboards, Pavlov-dog-style, but I'm confident that I can cope with
whatever drool makes it from their keyboards to talk.abortion and
alt.abortion.
Here we go:
Epilogue
And what of Jesse Floyd, the man we have indirectly to thank for all
this? He died in an automobile accident on September 17, 1995, even
before DHEC had finished writing the regulations. His heirs tried
unsuccessfully to get someone to replace him at the Ladies' Clinics,
then decided to sell off the properties. I do not know what happened
to the ones in Greenville and Charleston, but the one in Columbia was
bought by Denis Yeo, a pro-life engineer, now retired. He then leased
the clinic portion of the building out to Bethany Christian Services,
an organization which does crisis pregnancy counseling and is an
adoption service that is opposed to abortion.
Just before Bethany Christian Services moved in, there was a Christian
ceremony dedicating the building to its new and fundamentally pro-life
purpose. This was in January of 1998, on the day of South Carolina's
annual Right to Life March and Rally, which took place just six blocks
away. We were invited to walk prayerfully through the building. In my
tour I saw strong evidence that the disposal of fetal remains was
carried
out there in the same way as it was in Charleston. Beneath each sink
was a large garbage disposal. Their brand name was fraught with
irony: In-Sink-er-Ator. I was reminded of the incinerators of
Auschwitz and other concentration camps, disposing of the remains of
those who were killed there.
In another ceremony, four years later, the Most Reverend Robert Baker,
Bishop of Charleston, blessed the move of the office of Citizens for
Life into the lower level of the same building. Bishop Baker has
spoken at the annual Right to Life rally every year
since he became Bishop of Charleston. The rent had dramatically
increased for the office Citizens for Life had been leasing, but Jesse
Floyd's old building is situated in a less pricey neighborhood, so
Citizens for Life was able to continue its work there without great
financial strain.
Back when Jesse Floyd was alive, that portion of the building had
been occupied by one Sylvia Floyd, who testified on Floyd's behalf
whenever Floyd brought charges of disturbing the peace against
sidewalk counselors.
CODA
...they shall beat their swords into plowshares
and their spears into pruning hooks.
--Isaiah 2:4
Ray Fischer
>On Mar 4, 10:58 pm, Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>> > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> > > nyik...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>> > > > This isn't the first time Spartakus showed his ignorance about the
>> > > > topic. Over a month ago, he made some ignorant claims about
>> > > > excommunication on the thread "When Person and Human Being
>> > > > Finally Mean the Same Thing" and when I corrected him, he claimed
>> > > > he got the "information" from his wife, who was an ex-Catholic.
>> > > Stop lying, PiNhead.
>> > I never started.
>>
>> You're pulling the same crap that Nyikos 1.0 did 12 to 16 years ago!
>
>"the same crap" means, apparently, denying false claims about me.
You deny inconvenient truths.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net