Pro-Life Movement
Carmen Farmer
You know my opinion on abortion: Before 16 wks (when fetus feels nothing)
abortion is just like any other surgery. After 16 wks it's murder. If
you think I'm wrong, I'm open to lsiten to you. ANYWAY -------
The pro-life movement should not be just about abortion. I know that
most are well-meaning, but what about these things:
1. Housing for pregnant women? Who would take in a pregnant woman (such
as a teenager whose parents tossed her out for not getting the
abortion)? Or is it one of those things where folks are pro-life
as long as it doesn't interfere with their own time/convenience?
2. Provide assistance w/ getting into VoTech so she can get a certificate
or job? Help w/ locating subsidized daycare after the birth so she
can work/go to school? I say this because no one deserves to be an
EWC (Eternal Welfare Case). transport to &from Dr appts? Convince
her
to use Birth Control so this does not happen again?
3. I know a lot of men are on this newsgroup, and I may get flamed, but
someone in the pro-life movement should transport her to the DA or
Welfare Office to file for Child Support on whoever fathered the baby
even if he IS married, prominent, or whatever.
4. I'm not a "religious freak", but these women need to know that God
will indeed forgive them even if those on this newsgroup do not.
Glenn
Carmen Farmer wrote:
>
> You know my opinion on abortion: Before 16 wks (when fetus feels nothing)
> 3. I know a lot of men are on this newsgroup, and I may get flamed, but
> someone in the pro-life movement should transport her to the DA or
> Welfare Office to file for Child Support on whoever fathered the baby
> even if he IS married, prominent, or whatever.
> 4. I'm not a "religious freak", but these women need to know that God
> will indeed forgive them even if those on this newsgroup do not.
I am a man but I'm not here to flame you. Usually only small minded
people get insulting on the web. I agree with you on many points.
Especially about 15 year olds who need help. I've seen young teenage
women brought to an abortion clinic with shackles on their legs and
handcuffed in a county sherrif's car. Not only do they have nobody to
support them during and after the procedure, they have to go right back
to prison afterwards. No way does a pregnant teenager belong in prison.
Most of the antis i've met are much more interested in threatening and
condemning young women than helping them. I hope your point gets across
that they need help.
Harvin Queen
On 5 Oct 1996, Carmen Farmer wrote:
> You know my opinion on abortion: Before 16 wks (when fetus feels nothing)
> abortion is just like any other surgery. After 16 wks it's murder. If
> you think I'm wrong, I'm open to lsiten to you. ANYWAY -------
Still a little too "cut and dried" for my taste... but ok....
Personally I hold my cut-off point at viability (natural) where sentience
would have begun in the fetus as well....
> The pro-life movement should not be just about abortion. I know that
> most are well-meaning, but what about these things:
>
> 1. Housing for pregnant women? Who would take in a pregnant woman (such
> as a teenager whose parents tossed her out for not getting the
> abortion)? Or is it one of those things where folks are pro-life
> as long as it doesn't interfere with their own time/convenience?
The assumption is that the teenage girl would actually STAY at a halfway
house. Some would, but what about those that don't? Pro-lifers would not
only limit someone's personal freedom with their body, but would also
limit WHERE they can go or live (effectively thats what would happen..live
with us OR face the streets..)
> 2. Provide assistance w/ getting into VoTech so she can get a certificate
> or job? Help w/ locating subsidized daycare after the birth so she
> can work/go to school? I say this because no one deserves to be an
> EWC (Eternal Welfare Case). transport to &from Dr appts? Convince
> her
> to use Birth Control so this does not happen again?
Again, the assumption is that simply providing the opportunity is all that
is needed for someone to succeed. I personally am pro-choice, however
even I recognize that shuttling people back-and-forth like a taxi service
without mention of any committment to stay in school on the girl's part,
would simply be substituting one form of welfare for another...
> 3. I know a lot of men are on this newsgroup, and I may get flamed, but
> someone in the pro-life movement should transport her to the DA or
> Welfare Office to file for Child Support on whoever fathered the baby
> even if he IS married, prominent, or whatever.
There are thousands of fathers who dont pay, or get paid "under the
table"...it usually takes a VERY active court system and a number of
garnished-wage appeals to get money out of a "dead-beat dad"./
> 4. I'm not a "religious freak", but these women need to know that God
> will indeed forgive them even if those on this newsgroup do not.
I'm sure your intentions are well, and you're more "moderate" than most of
the folks here who would mention God, but I again question whether these
women NEED to be forgiven??
Some may feel they need to be, and thats fine...but for someone who feels
comfortable...we should leave them to themselves...
Harv
Deborah Garrett
Carmen Farmer wrote:
>
> You know my opinion on abortion: Before 16 wks (when fetus feels nothing)
> abortion is just like any other surgery. After 16 wks it's murder. If
> you think I'm wrong, I'm open to lsiten to you. ANYWAY -------
>
> most are well-meaning, but what about these things:
>
> 1. Housing for pregnant women? Who would take in a pregnant woman (such
> as a teenager whose parents tossed her out for not getting the
> abortion)? Or is it one of those things where folks are pro-life
> as long as it doesn't interfere with their own time/convenience?
Agreed. And many pro-life workers do assist with crisis pregnance centers... donating baby
goods and money, offering parenting classes and support, and assisting in any way they can to
ensure the woman " and" baby are cared for after delivery.
> 2. Provide assistance w/ getting into VoTech so she can get a certificate
> or job? Help w/ locating subsidized daycare after the birth so she
> can work/go to school? I say this because no one deserves to be an
> EWC (Eternal Welfare Case). transport to &from Dr appts? Convince
> her
> to use Birth Control so this does not happen again?
Communities offer this kind of help, but think we could do a more efficient job of connecting the
woman with services.
> 3. I know a lot of men are on this newsgroup, and I may get flamed, but
> someone in the pro-life movement should transport her to the DA or
> Welfare Office to file for Child Support on whoever fathered the baby
> even if he IS married, prominent, or whatever.
Child support would be very appropriate... I don't know Child Support laws (and know they
differ by state), but would be surprised (though not to much) if this didn't already happen.
> 4. I'm not a "religious freak", but these women need to know that God
> will indeed forgive them even if those on this newsgroup do not.
Absolutely!!! Jesus is called our Redeemer - one who redeems...
redeem (rｾ-dTm2)
1. To recover ownership of by paying a specified sum.
2. To pay off (a promissory note, for example).
3. To turn in (coupons, for example) and receive something in exchange.
4. To fulfill (a pledge, for example).
5. To convert into cash.
6. To set free; rescue or ransom.
7. To save from a state of sinfulness and its consequences.
8. To make up for.
9. To restore the honor, worth, or reputation of. 脚e0deem2a0ble adj.
Thanks for your time.
Debbie
John Addis
Carmen Farmer <cjfa...@chickasaw.com> wrote in article
<536ano$1...@picard.chickasaw.com>...
> You know my opinion on abortion: Before 16 wks (when fetus feels nothing)
> abortion is just like any other surgery. After 16 wks it's murder. If
> you think I'm wrong, I'm open to lsiten to you. ANYWAY -------
--
Well I've heard that at little as 12 weeks pain can sometimes be felt, but
there seems to be a *lot* of debate among doctors as to what proves fetal
pain and what is just reflexes, etc. Either way, should whether someone
feels "pain" really be the determining factor? Surely through drugs and
other methods I could murder a much older individual- does the fact that he
or she feels no pain as they die make the act any less vicious?
--
> The pro-life movement should not be just about abortion. I know that
> most are well-meaning, but what about these things:
>
> 1. Housing for pregnant women? Who would take in a pregnant woman (such
> as a teenager whose parents tossed her out for not getting the
> abortion)? Or is it one of those things where folks are pro-life
> as long as it doesn't interfere with their own time/convenience?
--
There are many organizations which do this.
--
> 2. Provide assistance w/ getting into VoTech so she can get a
certificate
> or job? Help w/ locating subsidized daycare after the birth so she
> can work/go to school? I say this because no one deserves to be an
> EWC (Eternal Welfare Case). transport to &from Dr appts? Convince
> to use Birth Control so this does not happen again?
--
I can think of several which do, this, too. I used to donate money to one.
In fact, there are many organizations which provide free shelter, food,
clothing, daycare, tutoring, etc. to women who decide to keep their
child--- in fact, there are many more organizations that do this than there
are abortion clinics in this country.
--
> 3. I know a lot of men are on this newsgroup, and I may get flamed, but
> someone in the pro-life movement should transport her to the DA or
> Welfare Office to file for Child Support on whoever fathered the baby
> even if he IS married, prominent, or whatever.
--
This happens, too, although women still have inadequate legal protection in
some circumstances. Still, we try our best.
--
> 4. I'm not a "religious freak", but these women need to know that God
> will indeed forgive them even if those on this newsgroup do not.
--
I'm not really religious at all, so I never get into any religious side of
the issue. But I know of a few Christian-based pro-life organizations who
certainly stress forgiveness and I've really only met a handful of pro-life
individuals who believe otherwise. Most of us in the pro-life movement see
abortion as having two victims, and neither is forgotten.
John
Former President of the Pittsburgh Association for Life
--
{~._.~} John Kennedy Lowell Addis
( Y ) Michigan State University
()~*~() 517.355.8698
(_)-(_) http://pilot.msu.edu/user/addisjoh/
Felicia M. Ciaudelli
Carmen, ther pro-life movement is certainly about more than
abortion!! Here in the Philly area ea (oops, sorry about the
typo), there are many who help before during and after the preg-
nancy, taking girls in, helping them get training, jobs, etc.
I got pregnant when I was 19 (not married) and Catholic Social
Services was full of practical help, also helping girls to find
housing for themselves and thir children afterwards. CSS is the
largest and most efficient social service provider in all of
Southeastern PA, and helps whether you're Catholic or not.
There are plenty of services available to help girls out, they
have to be made more available - more publicized.
Felicia
(don't let the Cleveland Freent address fool you :-), it's my
alternate address, and the only way I can get decent Net access
for the moment!)
--
my other *address* is i00...@disch3.disc.dla.mil
:-)
Earl Blacklock
>You know my opinion on abortion: Before 16 wks (when fetus feels nothing)
>abortion is just like any other surgery. After 16 wks it's murder. If
>you think I'm wrong, I'm open to lsiten to you. ANYWAY -------
>The pro-life movement should not be just about abortion. I know that
>most are well-meaning, but what about these things:
>1. Housing for pregnant women? Who would take in a pregnant woman (such
> as a teenager whose parents tossed her out for not getting the
> abortion)? Or is it one of those things where folks are pro-life
> as long as it doesn't interfere with their own time/convenience?
Every city has this kind of facility. Were you unaware of this?
>2. Provide assistance w/ getting into VoTech so she can get a certificate
> or job? Help w/ locating subsidized daycare after the birth so she
> can work/go to school? I say this because no one deserves to be an
> EWC (Eternal Welfare Case).
Many jurisdictions do this, some better than others.
transport to &from Dr appts?
This tends to happen on a more person to person level. It would be hard to
coordinate such a program.
>Convince her to use Birth Control so this does not happen again?
Excellent idea. How?
>3. I know a lot of men are on this newsgroup, and I may get flamed, but
> someone in the pro-life movement should transport her to the DA or
> Welfare Office to file for Child Support on whoever fathered the baby
> even if he IS married, prominent, or whatever.
If asked, I would be happy to do so. And have done so. On a number of
occasions. (Would an NHL player be prominent enough?)
>4. I'm not a "religious freak", but these women need to know that God
> will indeed forgive them even if those on this newsgroup do not.
If they indeed care about whether God will forgive them, it wouldn't be the
place of anyone to imply that God will not do so.
earl
laura m, snowdon
I believe abortion is a choice every person should make for
themselves. I don't think it has anything to do with the age factor.
For myself, I do not agree with abortion, but I feel it should be an
individual choice made according to the circumstances.
Sharon Collins
On Sun, 13 Oct 1996, laura m, snowdon wrote:
> Date: Sun, 13 OCT 1996 20:25:17 +0500
> From: laura m, snowdon <ls2...@wcu.edu>
> To: Earl Blacklock <blac...@visia.net>
> Cc: ls2...@wcu.edu
> Newgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
> Subject: Re: Pro-Life Movement
Hi Laura! What circumstances do you feel warrant abortion?