Out in the open

[David Luntz]

Well, now that the rally is over I am wondering what the future holds.  Tonight in my speech to the community I announced that I have started a militia... I'm sure the word will spread now. My boss was in the audiance. that was interesting... we will see where that goes. The local troopers kind of eyed me over. It feels good to be out in the open.. I'm not hiding anything and i don't want to live in fear. Those who have the potential to threaten our Constitution should live in fear, for this gives them a reminder of the office they hold and oath they have taken.
 
In Service of the Republic.

Dave

[Ironartist]

I stand with you Dave, its about standing up for what you see as
right, and defending what made our country great!

[FrankeSchein]

Welcome into the light.
Now—your life just changed to some degree.

I applaud your strength and conviction to this cause, and as I stated
at the DZ meeting, never be afraid to stand up for the principals that
you hold firm in your heart. For that is the core of what keeps
America above the rest—heartfelt patriotism and the desire to see this
country grow.

But be warned, that not everybody will agree with you, or even want to
hear your side of the story. To many you will be labeled as a “Right
Wing Extremist”, A “Whacko With A Gun”, and many other similar tags.

Sadly, even from within the movement you will encounter a select group
that plays against your own Declaration of Independence. Some will
label you as an infiltrator, informant, gov’ment agent, and all of
this because you are just arising from the shadows.

Learn to have patience with these types of personalities, and keep
your nose pointed toward your goals. Not everybody will agree with
what you stand for, or even lift a finger or speak a kind word in your
defense. That is the nature of the beast.

If we all listened to the “Nay Sayers” in this world, we would still
be tending sheep and huddling around campfires to keep us warm at
night. This is the lesson that I learned since my own transition.
Whenever I am faced with opposition on a subject or idea, I listen to
what’s being said, and what’s not being said—and then resolve to
create a solution or answer that alleviates those fears and anxieties.
For when you overcome the objection with credible solutions—therein
lays the framework that brings us from out of the shadows and into the
light of discovery.

BUT—you will never be able to make believers out of everyone out
there. There are some people that are deathly afraid of the
consequences of being a Patriot. They, for their own reasons, hide
behind the cloak of fear, and sometimes work behind the scenes to
destroy your credibility—simply because they do not agree with your
views or opinions.

Stay the course, hold the line—for eventually others will recognize
them for what they represent, and for what you stand for.

Good Luck…

[Norm Olson]

Dave.   Good speech.  

 

Nothing will happen to militia folks who stand openly and confidently.   The "enforcers" will try

to trip a few emotional flares along your perimeter to see if you will piss your britches and

turn tail. 

 

Visibility gives way to legitimacy and credibility.  Being secretive and illusive promotes distrust

and suspicion.   Not only that, but slinking around in the shadows creates paranoia where a

militia member(s) will create an imaginary threat to justify the fear and the very reason to hide.

 

I've never been arrested or shot at, although I've been threatened many many times. In the perilous

days following Oklahoma City, the leadership of the Michigan Militia felt as though arrests were

imminent, yet there were no arrests.   Even when Clinton declared that the Michigan Militia

were domestic terrorists, there were no arrests.   We were there and we were everywhere.

Any kind of roundup would have put the entire country on alert and the game would be on!

 

Consider that you will get attention from those who want to be rid of you, but by standing

and declaring that you are willing to fight for your God-given liberties, the opposition must

also consider whether to engage.    Consider that fedgoons are externally motivated by money

and power.  That makes them far more vulnerable than those who are internally motivated by

vision, duty, or love.   The fedgoon's threat will end with the collapse of the economy.  I suspect

that as anarchy increases, more and more enforcers will break ranks.  The spirit of the Oath Keepers

is rather powerful.     We've got to ask the question, "Just what is to be gained by central government enforcers

when they come against Constitutional patriots who simply want to be left alone?"  

 

Let's also remember that the enforcers also live among us. They must consider that how they

deal with the militia will have far-reaching consequences. 

 

There are very real dangers ahead, but the militia is not in danger except when people say or do things

that trigger a response. Yes, there will be incidents where an individual or small cell of resisters will be targeted

but the militia itself will only grow stronger and larger and smarter.

 

Our greatest enemy is fear.

 

Norm Olson

 

 

--
Welcome to the Alaska Citizens Militia forum.
To post send email to alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe send email to alaska-citizens-m...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/alaska-citizens-militia?hl=en
Web Site: www.alaskacitizensmilitia.com
 
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

[Norm Olson]

Amen!

We have the necessary elements to win. Competent and courageous leaders
are standing up across Alaska. Their determination evokes confidence from
those who are looking for strong leadership. As Franke says, "Stay the
course."

I'm sure that central government enforcers WILL test our mettle to see what
will
happen. In Montana, during the "Freemen" episode, the federals were
everywhere
measuring not only the actions of the militia, but also watching how the
general
public was reacting to situation. It wasn't long before the controlled
media began
to blame the militia for a "mind set" that justified illegal activities.
The public
soon bought this BS and turned against the militia for bringing down the
full weight
of the federal government on the small quiet community.

Along that line, let me predict a dynamic that can potentially tear apart
our
cohesiveness. When a few Alaska Citizens Militia members are arrested
on bogus charges with "throw down (planted)" evidence, there will be call
within
the militia community to fight the charges in a kangaroo court. Someone
will suggest a "legal defense
fund". Those who give won't be able to give enough and those who don't
give will be called turn-coats. (One needs to ask the question of whether
ANY
defense will free political prisoners, knowing that by freeing militia
members
will give the militia greater strength). In other words, if you are
arrested, you
will not see daylight for a long time, even though you are innocent.

It's time to consider that IF YOU ARE ARRESTED on trumped up charges
with phony evidence, you may have to suffer ALONE simply because there
is no way that the patriot community can (or will) help. If you are taken
prisoner
will you continue to be as strong a patriot IN JAIL as you were before?

In this scenario, we are vulnerable. Are you willing to go to jail and
still maintain
true faith and allegiance to the cause? Are you willing to suffer alone,
knowing
that freedom from incarceration is unlikely? And for all those who
witness
the event, are we willing to pick up the fallen standard and keep pressing
forward?

The truth hurts, but we've got to consider that if one or a few of us are
arrested,
that we must maintain our unity of purpose. The fact is that casualties
are likely
long before the shooting starts. What I don't want to see is a
fragmentation and
falling out by other militia members because of all the wrangling and noise
and
finger pointing that will come.

Ask the question: "Am I willing to stand alone if necessary and to suffer
alone?" If I can't answer that question, I need to reassess my decision
to be
involved in the citizens militia.

Norm Olson

----- Original Message -----
From: "FrankeSchein" <franke...@hotmail.com>
To: "Alaska Citizens Militia" <alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 8:47 AM
Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Out in the open

Welcome into the light.
Now�your life just changed to some degree.

I applaud your strength and conviction to this cause, and as I stated
at the DZ meeting, never be afraid to stand up for the principals that
you hold firm in your heart. For that is the core of what keeps

America above the rest�heartfelt patriotism and the desire to see this
country grow.

But be warned, that not everybody will agree with you, or even want to

hear your side of the story. To many you will be labeled as a �Right
Wing Extremist�, A �Whacko With A Gun�, and many other similar tags.

Sadly, even from within the movement you will encounter a select group
that plays against your own Declaration of Independence. Some will

label you as an infiltrator, informant, gov�ment agent, and all of

this because you are just arising from the shadows.

Learn to have patience with these types of personalities, and keep
your nose pointed toward your goals. Not everybody will agree with
what you stand for, or even lift a finger or speak a kind word in your
defense. That is the nature of the beast.

If we all listened to the �Nay Sayers� in this world, we would still

be tending sheep and huddling around campfires to keep us warm at
night. This is the lesson that I learned since my own transition.
Whenever I am faced with opposition on a subject or idea, I listen to

what�s being said, and what�s not being said�and then resolve to

create a solution or answer that alleviates those fears and anxieties.

For when you overcome the objection with credible solutions�therein

lays the framework that brings us from out of the shadows and into the
light of discovery.

BUT�you will never be able to make believers out of everyone out

there. There are some people that are deathly afraid of the
consequences of being a Patriot. They, for their own reasons, hide
behind the cloak of fear, and sometimes work behind the scenes to

destroy your credibility�simply because they do not agree with your
views or opinions.

Stay the course, hold the line�for eventually others will recognize

them for what they represent, and for what you stand for.

Good Luck�

[JJ Alaska]

Feels good doesn't it David, like weights have been lifted from your
shoulders, being very public has alot of benefit that is for sure and
sadly alot of hurt, my family has been punished for my activities even
when most do not support me, and are not even awake or aware, be
strong and stay the course if this happens to you brother.

Norm Olson, you bring up so very very good points, I have thought
about this many times, and when I made my choice I sat down with all
those I know and trust and told them what I would do if feds came to
arrest me.

I have thought hours upon hours looked in the mirror and made the
choice, I will die on my feet and free never in a cage to the best of
my abiliity. The way I see it is I do nothing wrong at all, I have a
spotless record with not even a ticket in almost a decade. My family
knows everything about me I hide nothing so they would know in their
heart if I died fighting to stay free the allegations against me would
be false.

In a cage I can not defend my family, I can barely defend myself, I
will take as many with me before I go down as I can, but I will not be
hauled off to sit on display for the enemy to poke and laugh at.

It is a choice you have to make this was my choice I fight to the
death period, I HIGHLY recommend against even letting them get you in
a cage look at what has already happened to so many, years and years
in a cage for nothing at all, TIME is the most valueable thing you
have, you have a limited amount , noone can give you more, but the
system is damn good at stealing it away from you.

God Bless you all, and if there is anything I can help you with David
PLEASE just ask I will do what I can to support you in your effort.

> Now your life just changed to some degree.

>
> I applaud your strength and conviction to this cause, and as I stated
> at the DZ meeting, never be afraid to stand up for the principals that
> you hold firm in your heart. For that is the core of what keeps

> America above the rest heartfelt patriotism and the desire to see this

> country grow.
>
> But be warned, that not everybody will agree with you, or even want to

> hear your side of the story. To many you will be labeled as a Right
> Wing Extremist ,  A Whacko With A Gun , and many other similar tags.

>
> Sadly, even from within the movement you will encounter a select group
> that plays against your own Declaration of Independence. Some will

> label you as an infiltrator, informant, gov ment agent, and all of

> this because you are just arising from the shadows.
>
> Learn to have patience with these types of personalities, and keep
> your nose pointed toward your goals. Not everybody will agree with
> what you stand for, or even lift a finger or speak a kind word in your
> defense. That is the nature of the beast.
>

> If we all listened to the Nay Sayers in this world, we would still

> be tending sheep and huddling around campfires to keep us warm at
> night. This is the lesson that I learned since my own transition.
> Whenever I am faced with opposition on a subject or idea, I listen to

> what s being said, and what s not being said and then resolve to

> create a solution or answer that alleviates those fears and anxieties.

> For when you overcome the objection with credible solutions therein

> lays the framework that brings us from out of the shadows and into the
> light of discovery.
>

> BUT you will never be able to make believers out of everyone out

> there. There are some people that are deathly afraid of the
> consequences of being a Patriot. They, for their own reasons, hide
> behind the cloak of fear, and sometimes work behind the scenes to

> destroy your credibility simply because they do not agree with your
> views or opinions.
>
> Stay the course, hold the line for eventually others will recognize

> them for what they represent, and for what you stand for.
>
> Good Luck
>

> --
> Welcome to the Alaska Citizens Militia forum.
> To post send email to alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe send email to
> alaska-citizens-m...@googlegroups.com

> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/alaska-citizens-militia?hl=en

> Web Site:  www.alaskacitizensmilitia.com
>
> "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,

> the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[wildbill]

Dave,
Well stated sir,I think that you will find more supporters for your
stand than you will find detracters.As has been stated on this forum
many times,there are many who feel as we do,but are afraid of making
their sentiments public for fear of unknown consequences,but will step
forward in times of crises because their inner nature as a patriot
will not allow them to stand silent anymore.I do not spend enough time
on this local forum as I should since I spend an inordinant amount of
time on national forums defending our conservative views and fighting
the progressive/socialist lies and agenda.When I post something
humerous here it is because we all need a break from the seeming
constant assault on our republic that we are fighting day and
night.You are not the people who need to be educated as we are of the
same mold,but,there are way too many "out there" in the general
population who are confused and ignorant regarding the true dangers we
face if we do not take action to maintain this country as a free
republic.VOTE,VOTE,VOTE, and PREPARE,PREPARE,PREPARE,in the meantime
keep your powder dry as there are no "givens" in our immediate future.
Bill

On Oct 14, 9:12 pm, David Luntz <david.lu...@hotmail.com> wrote:

[Rattlehead]

My hat is off to you Dave. It's better to be transparent, there is
less cause for suspicion. Besides that, you have nothing to hide.
Unless one of the objectives of your unit is to commit crimes against
other people or attempt to overthrow the government, you are not doing
anything illegal anyway. Stand proud and be counted!

I think its fair to say that the Militia movement in Alaska is still
in its infancy compared to states like Michigan and so on. Thats most
likely why we dont get a whole lot of law enforcement or media of
attention, we are not really a threat to anyone at this point.

What we appear to have up here at least so far as I have seen, is
several different groups of 1000 or less who bear extremely loose
affiliation, and no formal communications with each other outside of
this forum, and word of mouth. If there were a statewide energency of
some kind tomorrow, getting everyone together under one flag would be
extremely difficult if not impossible at this point, and even if we
did, we would be talking about an active force of less than 10,000 men
that were actually prepared to defend anything. In effect, what we
have in Alaska at this point are small pockets of resistance scatterd
throughout the state, and we have a long way to go if we ever wanted
to form an actual state militia that is united in its common intrest.

Given the size of the state and the distances between our different
groups, it is a logistical nightmare, and even more so if we lose the
transportation system. (That means no more snow plows in the winter).
It is almost ovewhelming to think about. So in a way its good that we
have our little groups here and there, but they must be self
supporting and able to function as a unit which means communication
and coordinated efforts.

We have a long way to go.


Travis

[nicole smyth]

Travis,  its a little deeper then that, i know Norm and Ray personaly, to joint venture into other groups that i could call my brothers with no prior knowledge of would not be a smart move on my part, not saying i dont disagree with all that has been said, but without actualy knowing more about each group and there views i will forever be at a distance......joe --- On Fri, 10/15/10, Rattlehead <travis...@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Rattlehead <travis...@yahoo.com> Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Out in the open To: "Alaska Citizens Militia" <alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com>

-- Welcome to the Alaska Citizens Militia forum. To post send email to alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com

To unsubscribe send email to alaska-citizens-militia+unsub...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/alaska-citizens-militia?hl=en

[Rattlehead]

Well, therein lies my point. If we dont talk to each other and get to
know about each other, we will all always be forever at a distance. No
one has a chance alone hold up in their house with no phone and no
internet. How else would we communicate with each other if the
internet went down? This forum is a good venue, however our registered
members is a pretty modest number. Certainly the 65 or so of us on
this forum are not going to be able "rally the troops" on a statewide
level in the event of an emergency of some kind.


Just my two cents,

Travis

[Ironartist]

Travis did you make it to dropzone last weekend? Theres also a few
others that should have shown up also just to know other patriots
faces in the area. Thanks for the spot to get together DZ.

[Rattlehead]

I was there John, and I went home disappointed. I was hoping to see a
group of like minded people that was at least somewhat agreed on its
common purpose. What I found was a group of people who apparently dont
want anything to do with each other outside of the internet, unless
the shit hits the fan, but then it will be too late. I'm a little
bummed out it, but I'll get over it. We'll get there eventually, but
we have a long way to go.

Travis

> > Travis- Hide quoted text -

[Ironartist]

I think guys were cautious to really have much of a meeting it was
just more to meet who was who. I know you now by sight now along with
dave, his boy, dz bill along with frank and pete. There was a couple
others that I will remember also by face but not by name and that for
me is normal. I would like to meet jj and a few of the penn guys. If
any guys are out for a drive in the valley don't hesitate to give me a
call I would be happy to buy a cup of coffee.

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[bob bob]

Travis you did see a group of like minded people.......I enjoy it when we get together but each group has its own basis for existence some are groups because of common religious beliefs some are there because of wrongs perpetrated on them by the powers that be some are there because they believe in the constitution, and some are there for there own personal reasons there is no common ground when the basis of your groups are as wide as the groups operating in Alaska. I wanted to work out a common purpose but two of the most influential groups leaders were unavailable (Norm, and Mr. Cox) they represent the majority of the boots on the ground up here and without there participation what was suppose to be a a meeting of the minds became coffee and conversation. I don't want anything to do with any other group as I shouldn't unless the shit hits the fan. Each of those groups represents there own views and beliefs if I believed what they did I would be part of there group I don't so I'm not. I have no issue with dealing with the command structure of each group working with those we trust and not working with those who leave a bad taste. As a commander I have a responsibility for the safety and security of not only myself and my family but the safety of every man and his family under me, I will not risk those men without being sure of the situation I'm putting them in. As for defending your house on your own I do not believe any of my men would need to do that they would have all of the men in there group behind them, that's why we have groups if you feel the need to communicate fro your own defense with other groups maybe you should form your own group, I know most of the commanders and fell comfortable working with about half of them as for the rest I don't work with them and wont even when the shit hits the fan that's one of the decisions required of me as a commander and something your going to need to figure out on your own.
 
Dropzone
Bill 
 
> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 10:25:42 -0700

> Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Out in the open

> From: travis...@yahoo.com
> To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com

> --
> Welcome to the Alaska Citizens Militia forum.
> To post send email to alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com

> To unsubscribe send email to alaska-citizens-m...@googlegroups.com

[nicole smyth]

Bill, I came solely for the dougnuts that wern't there, come on man.. spread the wealth! --- On Sat, 10/16/10, bob bob <dzfo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

[Rattlehead]

As I've said before Bill, I see your point, I understand it, and I
respect it. We are just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.
If we can have no faith in our fellow man, and we cant come together
(despite our differences) in times of need, (with all due respect)
this is all just that... coffee and conversation. THIS RIGHT HERE is
exactly what is wrong with our country. Maybe we will be able to pull
it together under fire, maybe we wont? Only time will tell...

Hit me back when you get a minute!

Travis

On Oct 16, 10:47 am, nicole smyth <joand...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Bill, I came solely for the dougnuts that wern't there, come on man.. spread the wealth!
>

> --- On Sat, 10/16/10, bob bob <dzfoxf...@hotmail.com> wrote:

[david...@hotmail.com]

Travis I'm not sure I agree, I don't believe Franke or I feel that way.
Dave

[Norm Olson]

Travis

 

Your observation was apparently made against a backdrop of what you

think the militia should be rather than what it is.  WTSHTF, it won't be

too late.  In fact, when things REALLY begin to fall apart, the militia

will grow stronger and tighter.    It won't be too late, it will be the beginning.

Once while being interviewed on a CNN "Cross Fire" program, I made the

statement (shortly after G.Bush had lulled people to sleep) that we need

another Waco to ignite the militia.   The feds know very well what happened

the last time.   They won't make the same mistake again.

 

The rise of the militia in America over the past two years is not surprising

based on the fact that a leftist socialist was elected Prez.  The feeling of

danger has brought forth the militia!     With the elections, the Republicans

will be back in office.   With Obama and the regime contained, the militia

may diminish again just as it did shortly after Bush was elected and Clinton/Reno

and Freeh deposed.

 

I think you see a different level of danger than may actually exist and therefore

your sense of what the militia should be or do is more poignant.  

 

I would suggest that you determine first, who the real enemy is and what

are the tactics, weapons, and battlefield on which that enemy will be poised.

Then assess the actual threat vs.. the perceived threat.   Then determine what

defense can be raised against the actual threat.   

 

You might use this forum to ask these questions of others. 

I don't see any "conventional" enemies, nor can I imagine a tyrannical

regime successfully call for nationwide martial law.  There will be no gun

confiscation.   What is coming is social collapse because of hyperinflation

and the death of the dollar.   Hard times ahead, but not the death knoll for

liberty.  

 

Norm Olson

[Rattlehead]

Perhaps you are right Norm. I stand corrected. I dont want to get too
far into "what if's" I just would like to see us prevail and be
victorious rather than accidentally shooting at each other out there
rather than the enemy, whoever that may be.

Travis

[bob bob]

Travis not picking on you here but using what you said to illustrate my point

"accidentally shooting each other instead of the enemy"

Who is the enemy? it may very well be other groups .................I have been pushing groups and commanders to get there logistics in order for years the first talk I had with Norm was about how much food they needed to have how many of these groups have a years worth of food for each member and that members family (remember men wont fight till there sure there families are safe). How many groups are ready, many have guns ammo some training but how many have enough food and medical equipment?  In a collapse where there is no power and no food how many of these groups would come take your food not because there necessarily bad people but because there wife and children are starving, and freezing to death. I would to save the lives of my children there are not to many people I wouldn't put a bullet into rather than watch my little girls die, war is a terrible thing and weather it be an economic war or one with bullets many people will be busy just surviving, can I blame them no can and will I defend against them "hell yes". All groups prepare in different ways and depending on what happens some will be better off than others those that rant as prepared will not just come and hand us there guns and then die they will find a way to survive, make no mistake as society brakes down the standard human being will revert quicker than you'll believe back to an animal some already have look at the inner city. 

 when theres nothing to loose then that person becomes more dangerous than you've ever imagined

Dropzone

Bill

> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 14:19:14 -0700

> Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Out in the open
> From: travis...@yahoo.com
> To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
>

[bob bob]

Travis

Thats why I said we all should know our flanks if your in My AOR by all means say hi tell me what area your operating in and how I can identify you same goes for me I will be more than happy to provide that same information to all those on my flanks by doing that before hand we can fix a lot of these issues what I don't agree with is getting involved with what ifs, triggers, internal politics, or communicating tactical information with other groups/units the less technical details we know about each other before the ballon goes up the better that way if one goes down for being stupid or set-up or both, the rest of us are clean. I'm not saying we should hide in the shadows by any means I just think tactical planning should stay within individual groups.

Get to know the guys and groups around you cut up the land scape like a pie each group having its own AOR it is responsible for. If your a lone operator it may just be your house or block but disseminate that information to the group or groups that butt up against you. Get a map of your area draw boundary lines, but that is all that should be on it. I have no problem sitting down with you or any of the other guys operating out of the Anchorage bowl and hacking out areas that way we all know each other and where everybody will operate the larger issues come when we start sharing plans and other tactical information.

I also am very glad this conversation sprang out of our meeting this needs to be had better now then later and this bulletin board is a great resource allowing us all to develop our thoughts and really take the time to hammer this out we all owe Norm a thank you for making this venue available to us. 

Dropzone 

Bill

> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 15:30:32 -0700

> Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Out in the open
> From: travis...@yahoo.com
> To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
>

> Hey Bill,
>
> I would certainly expect you to secure your family first. I would
> expect anyone else to do the same, as will I. You will get no argument
> from me on that.
>
> The enemy is anyone who would do you or your family harm or infringe
> upon your god given rights.
>
> I have no problem admitting that am pretty new to all this. I'm not
> expecting anyone to cut their own throat to help someone who is doing
> something blantetly stupid and asking to get in trouble.
>
> But after hearing what you said at last sunday's meeting and I quote,
> "If I see someone walking up in my area in camoflauge, i'm gonna put a
> bullet in their head." How the hell am I supposed to know where not to
> go? You and I are in the same AOR for christ's sake and we have this
> problem. Do you see where I am going with this?
>
> Dont you think we are gonna have enough to deal with without friendly
> fire? I'm not saying we should all be in constant contact on a daily
> basis, but It would be nice if I could let you know where I am going
> to be ahead of time so you dont shoot me.
>
> I am a totaly new to all this, I'm far less experienced than some, and
> I'm not afraid of a little constructive critisism here, so please do
> tell where I am wrong on this one?
>
> I'm all ears...
>
> Travis

>
>
>
> On Oct 16, 1:56 pm, bob bob <dzfoxf...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Travis not picking on you here but using what you said to illustrate my point
> > "accidentally shooting each other instead of the enemy"
> > Who is the enemy? it may very well be other groups .................I have been pushing groups and commanders to get there logistics in order for years the first talk I had with Norm was about how much food they needed to have how many of these groups have a years worth of food for each member and that members family (remember men wont fight till there sure there families are safe). How many groups are ready, many have guns ammo some training but how many have enough food and medical equipment?  In a collapse where there is no power and no food how many of these groups would come take your food not because there necessarily bad people but because there wife and children are starving, and freezing to death. I would to save the lives of my children there are not to many people I wouldn't put a bullet into rather than watch my little girls die, war is a terrible thing and weather it be an economic war or one with bullets many people will be busy just surviving, can I blame them no can and will I defend against them "hell yes". All groups prepare in different ways and depending on what happens some will be better off than others those that rant as prepared will not just come and hand us there guns and then die they will find a way to survive, make no mistake as society brakes down the standard human being will revert quicker than you'll believe back to an animal some already have look at the inner city.
> >  when theres nothing to loose then that person becomes more dangerous than you've ever imagined
> > DropzoneBill
>

[JJ Alaska]

Your wrong in that I am going to shot you before Bill has a chance
because I want that nice pair of boot you have.


A few things have been mentioned here I want to pound on a minute. It
was mentioned we are going into a social and economic collapse, anyone
that can not see this is true and happening is a blind fool I will not
waste time on, this will be the FIRST wave of problems we as a whole
will have to deal with. It will cause gangs to form and roam looting,
trying themselves to survive because they have nothing saved up. Look
at what happened in Serbia/Kosovo a good modern example of collapse on
a large scale.

It did not take long for the cities to turn into snipe shooting
galleries, gangs forms and plundered all they could in the cities,
then moved out into the courty overwhelming almsot ever home and small
group they found. Only groups with equal or superior numbers and fire
power generally held back the gangs, forcing them to look for easier
targets. It took just a few weeks for almost everyone to have military
grade weapons that still lived.

Do I think this will happen in Alaska, no, small pockets perhaps in
Anchorage that get put down in Anchorage perhaps. I do see it
happening in the lower 48, and what happens there will have an effect
on us up here. This type of collapse gives all the reason the UN or
the like needs to install ( peace keeperin forces ) to restore law and
order in America. The presedent has already been set, instead of
keeping our damn nose out of other nations civil disputes we and many
others stuck our noose right in the mix, and now it seems justified in
the eyes of the UN and others to just stick your nose in the business
of any nation having an internal dispute or collapse. This is
something seriously to think about it has already happpened to many
others, let us not fool ourselves that it can not happen here.

For a long time everyone hide safe and secure behind our
technologically superior forces, forgetting that this edge has been
overcome countless times including by us and does not insure dominance
and control or safety, as it does not insure forced using adanced toys
coming against us of victory as well.

WW2 , Japan has the most advanced naval fleet on the planet, and an
army and navy until 1942 that had never lost a battle. German had the
most advanced airforce and army on the planet, loosing only to
stupidity on the part of leadership later in the war.

We fought them both at the same time with a weaker armed forced until
around late 1942 early 1943 when our new production was pouring our
and won, winning faster then the banksters wanted, they wanted another
WW1 that lined their pockets for a decade.

My point to this, our armed forced are being bleed dry and can not
save us form this coming collapse, can not save us from the invasion
of UN peace keepers that could happen and is a very real threat to
consider, or the threat of others taking advantage of your weakened
state, only we can and this is the only real enemy I see that we COULD
face that requires us working somewhat as a team here.

During the Social and Economic collapse, we many need to just keep
what we have, strengthen our numbers, but Quality is always better
then Quanity, and hold out in our local areas keeping some form of law
and order.

Our nation does not have the moral fiber of the 1920s and 30s, we
will see horrors in an economic collapse I care not to imagine and
will not kid myself we do likely face. Men revert to cannibalism on
average 21 days after going without food. Have you taught your people
how to tell someone has been eating human flesh, you can, eating
people plays havoc on your nervous system and will in time drive you
completely insane. And think of this on the eastern front of World War
2 Cannibal CHILDREN were commonly more of a threat then the soldiers.

I do not think single units can make it thru to the end of this
collapse alone, and I do not think our nation will ever be as we know
it today when this is done, but I am trying and going to fight to do
everything I can so my family can atleast grow up in free and safe
Alaska.

I think some of us are kidding ourselves on just how bad things are
going to get. But I do pray everyday that I am proven wrong.

> > Travis not picking on you here but using what you said to illustrate my point
> > "accidentally shooting each other instead of the enemy"
> > Who is the enemy? it may very well be other groups .................I have been pushing groups and commanders to get there logistics in order for years the first talk I had with Norm was about how much food they needed to have how many of these groups have a years worth of food for each member and that members family (remember men wont fight till there sure there families are safe). How many groups are ready, many have guns ammo some training but how many have enough food and medical equipment?  In a collapse where there is no power and no food how many of these groups would come take your food not because there necessarily bad people but because there wife and children are starving, and freezing to death. I would to save the lives of my children there are not to many people I wouldn't put a bullet into rather than watch my little girls die, war is a terrible thing and weather it be an economic war or one with bullets many people will be busy just surviving, can I blame them no can and will I defend against them "hell yes". All groups prepare in different ways and depending on what happens some will be better off than others those that rant as prepared will not just come and hand us there guns and then die they will find a way to survive, make no mistake as society brakes down the standard human being will revert quicker than you'll believe back to an animal some already have look at the inner city.
> >  when theres nothing to loose then that person becomes more dangerous than you've ever imagined

> > DropzoneBill- Hide quoted text -

[Norm Olson]

Blowing away someone without knowing who he is may be a bad decision.
Seeing someone from your observation post without knowing who or why
he is there should alert us, but dropping the hammer without more
information may be a hasty decision that we might regret.

There are so many "what if's" that it's hard to handle. What if he's
a survivor from another group of patriots? What if he's a captive
being forced to walk into your area so as to give away YOUR position
by firing on him? What if he's disoriented but is carrying vital
information?

We call them observation posts for that reason. If you see someone,
radio in to your alert and wait for back up. Observe but be cautious.
But don't shoot until you know what the intent of your trespasser
is.

Get the book "Patriots" by James Rawles. He brings some very
important point to light about watching and listening in a defense
posture.

[Rattlehead]

JJ Alaska wrote:

"Your wrong in that I am going to shot you before Bill has a chance

because I want that nice pair of boots you have."


This is the level of cooperation we have even within our own unit...
my boots wont even fit his little girly feet! LOL!

...and when JJ gets bagged, I am gonna loot all his fancy new multicam
gear and leave him for the worms in his boxers! The clothes wont fit
me, but I can barter those off for some ammo or something.

Travis

[bob bob]

JJ makes a great point here 

He does live a lot closer to you than I do he would get the first shot if that doesn't work I'll trade ya for his multi cams before I kill you

Dropzone 

Bill

> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 18:24:09 -0700

> Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Out in the open
> From: travis...@yahoo.com
> To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
>

[Rattlehead]

Gee..thanks Bill! You are the best! I'm so relieved to know I've got
people I can count on in a tight spot!

LOL!

Travis

On Oct 16, 5:37 pm, bob bob <dzfoxf...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> JJ makes a great point here
> He does live a lot closer to you than I do he would get the first shot if that doesn't work I'll trade ya for his multi cams before I kill you
> Dropzone Bill
>
>
>
> > Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 18:24:09 -0700
> > Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Out in the open

> > From: traviswsas...@yahoo.com

> > To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
>
> > JJ Alaska wrote:
>
> > "Your wrong in that I am going to shot you before Bill has a chance
> > because I want that nice pair of boots you have."
>
> > This is the level of cooperation we have even within our own unit...
> > my boots wont even fit his little girly feet! LOL!
>
> > ...and when JJ gets bagged, I am gonna loot all his fancy new multicam
> > gear and leave him for the worms in his boxers! The clothes wont fit
> > me, but I can barter those off for some ammo or something.
>
> > Travis
>
> > --
> > Welcome to the Alaska Citizens Militia forum.
> > To post send email to alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
> > To unsubscribe send email to alaska-citizens-m...@googlegroups.com

> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/alaska-citizens-militia?hl=en
> > Web Site:  www.alaskacitizensmilitia.com
>
> > "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."- Hide quoted text -

[david...@hotmail.com]

If I were you two I would be coordinating what your boundaries are. Overlapping AORs leads to fratracide and takes way more coordination. I will be talking to the folks in Fairbanks about this. I don't want to have to play friend or foe games. If your in my AOR and you haven't pre-coordinated good luck. I wouldnt expext anything different from anyone else.
DAVE

Norm Olson <norm.ma...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> --
>> Welcome to the Alaska Citizens Militia forum.
>> To post send email to alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
>> To unsubscribe send email to
>> alaska-citizens-m...@googlegroups.com
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/alaska-citizens-militia?hl=en
>> Web Site: www.alaskacitizensmilitia.com
>>
>> "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,
>> the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
>>
>
>--
>Welcome to the Alaska Citizens Militia forum.
>To post send email to alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
>To unsubscribe send email to alaska-citizens-m...@googlegroups.com

>For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/alaska-citizens-militia?hl=en

[Kath McCubbins-Carlson]

hey, guys...you wouldn't shoot a GIRL, wouldja??

um...that was a joke, guys!

Kath