Should militias communicate with each other.

[FrankeSchein]

The difficulty is, and always has been—should militias communicate
with each other.

Some out there would argue that militia units should remain distant
from each other-citing various examples such as culpability in case
one unit does something illegal, the other unit isn’t drawn into the
problem.

Other arguments center around the concept that all militias have been
infiltrated, and by keeping each unit separate from each other,
lessens the exposure to all concerned.

Since 1776, the American militias have been separated,
disenfranchised, split apart, and relegated to the four winds. At no
time have they ever came together for one single cause, under one
single banner—to do anything…

That’s a pretty dismal record indeed, considering the number of
constitutional militias that are operating in the USA-and when one
factors in the number of patriots that remain outside of these
militias, the numbers increase exponentially and explosively therein.

So what’s the problem….?

The problem is seem, is the mere fact that everyone is afraid. Afraid
to the point that fear and worry overcomes the normal rationalization
that there is strength in numbers, that having somebody on our side
isn’t a bad thing, and that by relying on our neighbors, good will
eventually be resultant.

I’ve listened as people tried to explain to me that having a
communications network is bad.
I’ve sat quietly while somebody attempted to tell me that intelligence
gathering is a waste of time.

I’ve been told that I’m crazy for even suggesting strategies for
dealing with natural disasters, much less predictable disasters and/or
scenarios.

But I listened, and I watched their body language, and I learned a
little from these conversations. I walked away from these negative
bounded “Nay Sayers” and took their worst fears, and built a solution
around them. In other words, it became a matter of overcoming their
objections with reasonable answers.

So let’s examine the first problem—communications…
I’ll start with this little snippet; “The Rules and Modis Operandi
Have Changed”.
Recall Ruby Ridge, Waco, OK City Bombing, and many of the other high
to medium profile case against the militia, and you will start to see
a certain pattern.
Chiefly all of these started with media demonization, character
assassination, and eventually legal revenge that ultimately resulted
in direct action against the people involved.

The FBI/ATF raids against the Hutaree changed all that…

They came in the middle of the night, hit residences and locations in
nine different states, and took everybody down like something from a
Hollywood movie script. No prior demonizing, no building up pubic
support, no getting lawyers and children services people involved—just
snap-crackle-pop, and Hutaree is sitting in jail.

But you gotta ask yourself one simple question throughout all of this…

If Hutaree was already in jail, then why did the LEO show up in
armored vehicles with a heavily armed company sized force, simply to
execute a search warrant on an empty property?

They expected counter-resistance…

Could it be that LEO gave the militias more credit than they deserve?
Did they think that these militia units had a cohesive communications
network? We will never know the true extent of that question, but it
does show that the rules have changed, and militias will have to
likewise change with the times.

What if the next time they don’t stop at just one location, but
proceed to the next militia commanders house, and then the XO of the
next unit, and continue on through the night until all the militia
members of a certain unit are systematically taken down one by one…

What Then?

How do you counter a threat like this? What basis for a counter-
strategy can you build around that scenario?

At the very minimum, a strategy around this type of threat would
entail an immediate alert network that flows outwards to every militia
and patriot unit in the entire state, and then across the entire
country.

Only then, could somebody close by have the ability to come to your aid
—even if it’s to get your family to a safe area, provide moral
support, and videotape the entire episode for later scrutiny. A
communications network that allows everyone to reach out during times
of crisis, and touch those people that are best able to respond.

Let’s take this one step further…
The Pakistani and Russian UN Troops are coming up the Glenn Highway;
cells phones, and land lines are down—how will you and yours be able
to mount an effective response to this invasion, if we are all relying
on a word of mouth network..

Let’s think about this…

[David Luntz]

Agree,
 
Even if informal, we need a POC List so we Commanders can reach out and contact whos on our left, right, front or rear. At a minumum this will also aid in maintaining situational awarness for Commanders...
 
We need a formal Commanders meeting to further the discussions this past week (AORs, Triggers, Commander's Critical Information Requirements, and establishing Lines of Communication), We must start working togeather now not after the SHTF.
 
If anything we can discuss those on this forum, as well as individually posting POC info I.e. name, phone, email and AOR. We can each build our own contact list then.
 
It was a pleasure meeeeting folks this past weekend, i am not sure all who attended are on this forum, but if not why not?
 
There is another site we could utilize as well.  It is called the America Militia Network and is an information site for all Militias to post on. Each State has a forum and each individual group can start thier own thread under Alaska or all Commanders can use one thread and just pass info that way.
 
I also think that in addition to our own musters / gatherings or meetings, that we should have a State wide gathering one once a year so members from each organization can attend / meet others from around the State, see what other folks patches and uniforms look like so we get to know our allies and maybe do some common skill / education training.
 
In Service of the Republic
 
Dave Luntz
Central Alaska Militia
Interior Alaska (Delta, Tok, Glenallen, Salcha)
907-590-9140 Cell
David...@hotmail.com
I am Working on establishing a website
 
 
 
> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 23:24:46 -0700
> Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Should militias communicate with each other.
> From: franke...@hotmail.com
> To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com

> --
> Welcome to the Alaska Citizens Militia forum.
> To post send email to alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe send email to alaska-citizens-m...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/alaska-citizens-militia?hl=en
> Web Site: www.alaskacitizensmilitia.com
>
> "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

[Joe Bradley]

The average citizen just didn't wake up one day in bed and decided to
become part of a militia, it took years / months / days to decide if
thats what would be the best direction for that individual, not to
mention what that individuals beliefs are to even want to join a
militia that may have differant views of others.. each person has to
decide weather to be the lone wolfe / have just a few close freinds
that they know they could count on or go out full bore and be out in
the open or w/e, i dont see a problem with any of these choices, but
for me personaly i believe strength is in numbers. there are many ways
to get people involved in a militia, the problem is whats the best
way. at the last meet up i sensed that everyone was in agreement (or
if they didn't they did not speak up) that the commander in chief was
the governor of there state , this was a total wake up for me, I dont
care if the Governor is Smedly Butler, if he/she is corupt then i
would be a fool to go along with that logic even though it states that
the militia falls under those rules, so however one wants to interpret
the militia , un-organized militia or freedom fighter i will just go
on what i know is factual.....the second amendment pertains to me as
an individual and not just the state militia or the un-organized
militia but for that individual to decide how he/she will use that
right. Maybe i heard it wrong at DZ and if i did i will delete it
from my memory....best to all......Joe

[FrankeSchein]

The governor isn't my commander..[sic]

*Alaska Watchmen reserves the right to deny aid or assistance to any
person, party, or agency that we deem are funded or operating in
contradiction of established Constitutional rights.
We will ABSOLUTELY NOT render assistance to ANYONE, in any operation
of the following nature:
A) Participation in weapons/firearms sezures, forced evacuations,
forced resettlement, and/or forced anything.
B) Participation in any blockade of essential services, utlities, or
restriction of the right to travel.
C) Assistance in any manner, that in anyway, denies Alaskan citizens
due process, fair trial, or legal address.

Pretty much sums things up right here. [ http://www.alaska-watchmen.com/Code-of-Conduct.html
]

[david...@hotmail.com]

I am not an expert in Constitutional Law. However if I wanted to serve the State, I could of joined the ASDF. My feelings are that the ASDF could be used against the people so our group chooses to remain seperate. That doesn't mean that we could not support the ASDF or the state if the cause supported the Constitution.
I found the meeting at DZ to be benificial as it gives us a chance to put faces to these emails, and understand the philosphies and operational ideaqs behind each group; this will build the relationships that will be needed later. As stated there, we probably all will neverf agree on everything.
Dave

Joe Bradley <joan...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[david...@hotmail.com]

If we had an established poc list and knew what each commander's critical information requirements are, we would be able to feed that information as required increasing our Intel range farther than our front door
Dave

[Elizabeth]

This is the type of organizing that makes sense to me.

The Joy of the Lord is my strength

---

From: David Luntz <david...@hotmail.com>

Sender: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:56:01 -0800

To: <alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com

Subject: RE: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Should militias communicate with each other.

[FrankeSchein]

The wonders of cell phone and modern technology come into play once
again.
I'm almost sure that even suggesting something like this will cause an
uproar here and there.


On Oct 13, 6:55 am, "david.lu...@hotmail.com"

> >For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/alaska-citizens-militia?hl=en
> >Web Site:  www.alaskacitizensmilitia.com
>
> >"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[FrankeSchein]

The object is to build strategies NOW before they are needed.
The first and foremost is the safety of our respective families, then
communications within each unit, and finally having the ability to see
beyond the horizon.
If we are all too busy and too concerned with our own respective
areas, then we will eventually be blindsided by our lack of forward
thinking.
I am a firm believer in a very simple concept---If you want to be
successful in anything in life or business, then emulate those that
have already successfully accomplished what you seek. You cannot fail
if you work it that way.

I use the gov’ment’s own system called ICS—(Incident Command System)
It works for them, and it works here in this situation. It allows for
the rapid funneling of time and resources, and brings certain requite
skills and attributes to any scenario.
Imagine what it takes to drop a battalion of firefighters from
different areas of the country, into one single area of Alaska.
Consider all of the resources that must be met, provided for, and
executed within a small time frame. I call this system “MICS”—short
for Militia Incident Command System.

Critical information and strategies aren’t divulged to everyone, but
commanders are the ones that become the resource in these situations.
They provide the impetus for movement, allocation of resources, and
ultimately determine interaction with other groups within the sphere
of influence.

Contrary to what others might say—there can be no single person in
charge of this system. One person cannot dictate policies to another
group. The group affected called the shots, and those that participate
offer their input/suggestions.

[David Luntz]

Agree all commanders should support the combatant commander.
 
Also agree many are focused on thier areas of concern or thier agenda, and by not looking at the big picture they are blind.
 
The great thing about establishing lines of communication is we all have access to resources and information that othrs can use.
 
Consider each group out there a collector of information.. "eyes and ears" as Norman Schwarzkopf described the 5th Legion during Desert Storm
 
If I know what information you deem critical and I see and report that to you, you are better off, same here.. that info could be 6 hrs or an hour away from and i may never know if you didnt tell me.
 
 
I am familiar with the ICS structure.
 
Any group could fall into this structure if all are familiar with.. additionall if your group needed to support the State, your group should be familiar with this as well.
 
 
Dave
 

 
> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 22:04:34 -0700
> Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Should militias communicate with each other.
> From: franke...@hotmail.com
> To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
>
>

[bob bob]

A agree but in ICS it is assumed that all those participating are professionals I have no issue working with you Franke I trust you your command and your abilities as for some of the other groups I'd be afraid to pull point

Dropzone

Bill 

> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 22:04:34 -0700

> Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Should militias communicate with each other.
> From: franke...@hotmail.com
> To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
>
>

[nicole smyth]

lol --- On Wed, 10/13/10, bob bob <dzfo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

[FrankeSchein]

Great! Then who brings the damned beer and pizza to the next shin-
ding...

Professionalism comes about as a result of training, training, and
then some more training.
It entails scenario training as well as cross training. These are the
hallmarks of what brings cohesion to a unit.
Doesn't matter if it's training to counter a medical pandemic, or the
russians skipping across the bay to plunder and pilage--training is
all the same--and much needed.

It's much to easy these days to live in this delusional world were
reality doesn't exists. But when SHTF, things change drastically, and
in a hurry. It's the training that one falls back onto. The
instinctive ability to allow your training to take over...(if you have
been in the military or law Enforcemnt, then you know what I mean.)

We all pull point to some degree or another..

On Oct 13, 9:45 pm, bob bob <dzfoxf...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> A agree but in ICS it is assumed that all those participating are professionals I have no issue working with you Franke I trust you your command and your abilities as for some of the other groups I'd be afraid to pull point
> DropzoneBill
>
>
>
> > Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 22:04:34 -0700
> > Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Should militias communicate with each other.

> > From: frankesch...@hotmail.com

> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/alaska-citizens-militia?hl=en
> > Web Site:  www.alaskacitizensmilitia.com
>

[FrankeSchein]

Roger That!

On Oct 13, 9:30 pm, David Luntz <david.lu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Agree all commanders should support the combatant commander.
>
> Also agree many are focused on thier areas of concern or thier agenda, and by not looking at the big picture they are blind.
>
> The great thing about establishing lines of communication is we all have access to resources and information that othrs can use.
>
> Consider each group out there a collector of information.. "eyes and ears" as Norman Schwarzkopf described the 5th Legion during Desert Storm
>
> If I know what information you deem critical and I see and report that to you, you are better off, same here.. that info could be 6 hrs or an hour away from and i may never know if you didnt tell me.
>
> I am familiar with the ICS structure.
>
> Any group could fall into this structure if all are familiar with.. additionall if your group needed to support the State, your group should be familiar with this as well.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> > Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 22:04:34 -0700
> > Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Should militias communicate with each other.

> > From: frankesch...@hotmail.com

> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/alaska-citizens-militia?hl=en
> > Web Site:www.alaskacitizensmilitia.com
>

[Norm Olson]

 

Bill hit the real issue squarely.   No matter what kind of operational plan you put down on paper, you must have the

physical resources able to carry out the mission.    Back in 94-95, the fledgling militia grew rapidly, even faster

than our organizational structure could accommodate.   Our initial goal was to get all four divisions and 83 county

brigades to be networked so that information could flow freely up and down the chain.   We found, however, that Command CONTROL

Communication was not possible because brigade commanders were dealing with people who did not like to be

"commanded" or "controlled"    When commands were given, some groups rebelled because they didn't have the

opportunity to input their ideas, while others felt left out because they did not have the resources necessary to carry

out the directive.   Essentially, we were dealing with volunteers who wanted to be part of the militia, but who knew

nothing of how a military unit should work. Many of our leaders were not ex-military which made it very difficult 

for a unit to function.    Interestingly enough, we were experiencing what is was like for the regional and

local militias before the American Revolution.   Imagine what the militias of Lexington and Concord thought when

militias across the state line in Pennsylvania refused to get involved.   Imagine what Gen. Washington thought

when militia volunteers refused to fight and simply walked away.

    No matter what plan you put down on paper, unless you have experienced people AND those with unwavering dedication and loyalty,

that plan will fail.

 

     For this reason, I've supported the idea of Command Communication over Command CONTROL Communication.

Many local/regional/geographic militia units, networked to share intel, resources, etc., but each militia unit

should remain autonomous and self-regulating.     There should be no State Commander who actually

COMMANDS others to act.   I was recently asked by a national media writer, "How big is the Alaska Militia?"

I said, "We have dozens of militia units spread across the state, each unit having hundreds of members...and

we are growing every day."     This is the message we need to send.   We are far larger than anyone can

actually gauge or measure.    We are everywhere and we are networked.     Local militia leaders must have

the courage and necessary talent to deal with situations in their own operational theater.    Other militia

units may or may not join in to support a militia group that is confronted with a situation.    I have heard it said

that "if one militia unit is attacked, all the militia should respond."    That's fine in theory, but it doesn't work

that way.   It doesn't mean that the militia unit not responding is less patriotic or less supportive of the cause,

it simply means that the militia unit not responding has exercised their conscience and have chosen to not

get into the fray.   Whether it is a single individual who refused to obey an order or an entire unit, the

reality is still there, without the motivation, volunteers will make up their own mind what they will do.

 

    There is a lesson in all this.   It's that a cohesive body of troops must be somehow motivated by

internal or external factors that will compel them to work together.    What do you do with a militia member

who will not obey an order or directive if he/she is not compelled by conscience to do so?  

 

     The fact is that we are all genetic rebels to begin with.   We don't want be under the authority of another

human being.  We're skeptical of those who order us to do this or that. We want ALL the information before

we make up our mind, and usually we want our own ideas to be listened to and considered, and if our

idea is dismissed, usually the individual with the idea won't be showing up when the bugle sounds.

   You see, we're no different than those who were in the militia long ago.     It will take a very near and

present threat to bring us together, such as a Lexington/Concord event!     We won't really act as a

cohesive body until we are bloodied.   We won't work together until we have to.    What is, is!

 

     Our loose "command" structure is suited to networking INFORMATION.   The burden of organizing

and training and equipping and informing a local militia unit must fall on the local leadership.    We all

need to encourage and support growing units in the state and lend a hand in providing information to

assist. 

   

      I commend Bill at Drop Zone for serving as the "Supply Sergeant" for many units.  He and others

hold the vision of a mighty force upon the plain able to send a clear and unmistakable message to

tyrants:  Don't Tread on Me.    To do so is to unleash the dogs of war and to calculate a butcher bill

that the central government may not want to pay.

 

Norm Olson  

[JJ Alaska]

This subject has come up countless times over the years we need a
central organization or, we need to network all communications. In
theory this seems GREAT like the internet right everyone on the same
network working for the same goals to do the same things and get stuff
done, all right lets rock. That is never how it works and not how it
should work. We will not partake in a centralized system of any kind,
it is OUR choice, we have been burned badly in the past and those I
surround myself with, I can trust with not only my life but the life
of those I love and am fighting for in the first place, my family.

Remember the founding fathers did not fight for there own freedom,
those that fight for freedom almost never get to enjoy it and they
know it as I know it, I am not fighting for my freedom, but the
freedom of the next generation and the many generations to come.

Militia's not networking and fighting as one is NOT a bad track
record how can that even be said. I look at the track record of the
American Militia and see the founding and building of the greatest
nation the world has ever seen in human written history. They fought a
war that was very brutal, very long, against the most powerful nation
and army on the planet at that time, an army that would later beat the
unbeatable Napoleon, a general that won more battles then most of the
great generals combined.

A Central command system or communication system is a bad idea, even
our own military does not truely practice a central command system, it
has MASSIVE flaws the least of which is leaks, false reports, and
misleading intel.

The colonial militia's stayed apart for good reason very good reason.
One they had different wants, needs, and goals, nothing is wrong with
this, if your cause be just and noble you need not call for aid, it
will come without asking. They did not fight as one unit , but they
did fight for the SAME cause and goal that is what is most important.

What are we fighting for ?
What do we want to protect and preserve?
What are your beliefs?
What do you want the end goal to be?

When this is asked most will have different answers and different
goals, some just want to make sure their family is safe and secure,
some are acting on their beliefs and preparing for what they feel and
believe is coming, others are enraged with the destruction of their
nation and rights as I am. A wise man once said if you and I were the
same, there would be no need for one of us. I feel that is the same
with the militia each in time will do not matter what we want what
they feel is best for the men and women they have surrounded
themselves with.

If someone wants to form and be a part of a central communication hub
that is their choice, we will not partake that is our choice, but make
sure you do not turn your backs on those that do not wish to partake,
it could be the very neighbor you need help from that you have turned
away from.

This forum serves as a good way for some to chat and convey
information and Ideas, something like it is not a bad idea to pass on
information and intelligence, but some are looking at the militia like
the army and you need to lose that thinking right away, the Militia is
in so many ways far far better, in others not.

Example, General Oslon orders my unit to line up near the center and
prepare to repel the british attack, I will tell him the same thing so
many told General Washington, with respect no sir we shall not line up
as targets for the crowns riflemen to practice on, and those units
went back to conducting a very effective guerilla war that yeilded
alot of resources for General Washington's army. In the army stupid
orders cost the lives of thousands it is fact it has happened before
it continues to happen now and it will happen in the future. In the
militia if you are a stupid commander you soon have no troops as they
will rightly leave you in the dust, you are forced to make wise and
smart choices and forced to respect the lives of everyone that has
trusted and voted you into leadership.

Not all units work this way, but that is another thing so many do not
understand, leaders in the militia should be voted into place, 90% of
the units I am familiar with do so, it keeps the leadership in check,
your choice but I do recommend it.

My point is central command and/or central networking has benefits, I
strongly feel however the faults out way the benefits greatly. Not
just spies which you should expect and prepare for no matter what, but
the worse part which is the misleading information that gets pumped
into networks of this type, the idea is nothing new and they have
failed may times because of the lies and misinformation that sends
people in 50 directions. Also almost always the people with the
resources and want to set up these networks turns out to be an enemy.

I am so tired and stressed have done three hours of radio interviews
today and not sleeping well so please forgive my fragmented thoughts
on this, I have attempted to give a large picture of things for
everyone to think of, to each their own, I recommend against central
anything.

To give a more modern example, during the cold war the order to fire
was not what was waited for some will not understand this but it is
history and fact not an idea. The order to fire was the standing
orders, the call that was being waited for was the order to NOT FIRE
that day. WHY? Seems crazy doesn't it. This is fact this is how it is
still done in some nuclear powers because it is understood central
communcations can be very very easily shut down or tampered with to
give false launch orders and the like, it also prevents other nations
from wanting to knock out the communications knowing full well it will
cause a launch.

Another example of how badly central anything can muck up military
forces is what we did in Iraq - 1991-, Saddam listened to us,
centralized everything, and we took over the entire system, used the
TV's and radios against them, sent fake orders to units, and even
powered down entire defense networks. The AA systems we inputed ghost
targets, put areas on alert with no aircraft in the area while
clearing the screens on areas we where bombing.

Have you ever sat back and really thought hmm how did we defeat the
4th largest army in the world that had a considerable veteran force
from fighting Iran, they were not cowards running at first site of us
as the media wants everyone to think. We put them into complete chaos
before even arriving, and the air force personnel doing it laughed so
hard and had alot of fun doing it, it was like a video game for them.
And you know what side note, Saddam had a SIZEABLE amount of American
equipment, equipment that to this day is still missing that we gave
him, where is it, we didn't blow it all up.

You can not count on Cell phones.

You can not count on GPS Units.

You can not count on the Internet.

You can not even count on your land line phones.

>   > From: frankesch...@hotmail.com

>   > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/alaska-citizens-militia?hl=en

>   > Web Site:www.alaskacitizensmilitia.com
>
>   > "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
>
>   --
>   Welcome to the Alaska Citizens Militia forum.
>   To post send email to alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
>   To unsubscribe send email to alaska-citizens-m...@googlegroups.com

>   For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/alaska-citizens-militia?hl=en
>   Web Site:www.alaskacitizensmilitia.com
>

[David Luntz]

JJ, I've been following this and I don't see anyone talking Central Command. I dont see anyone talking Central Communications Network.
 
What i have heard and am for is knowing whos out there that I can call on for assistance.  This is not only during dark times, but maybe next month I want to have a range and need some range safety assitance or trainers.
 
You stated that you are against central anything.  Isnt this centralized comms we are using right now?
 
I think what folks are talking about is putting togeather a commander's POC list so you, I or any other commander can pick up the phone and discuss one on one or send an email if they want and in worse conditions use to pop that flare..
 
As CDR Olsen stated, we should not be afraid to put our name on paper as our fore fathers did years ago.
 
You point out some great OPSEC concerns and I too believe that we can not put great faith in Cell phones., GPS Units, the Internet, or land line phones, We discussed this last saturday during the DZ mtg, where we agreed that couriers may be needed. I do like CDR Schein's radio idea.  And as CDR Fulton stated, we may never need to talk to any other unit except those on our left, right, front or rear, but it would be nice to be able to if we needed too at least as long as the phones and or internet are usable.

 
In Service of the Republic
 
Dave
 
 
 

> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:12:47 -0700

> Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Should militias communicate with each other.

> From: JasonR...@yahoo.com
> To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com

> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/alaska-citizens-militia?hl=en

[bob bob]

and lets remember the only thing the internet can agree on is porn

Dropzone

Bill

> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:12:47 -0700

> Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Should militias communicate with each other.

> From: JasonR...@yahoo.com
> To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com

> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/alaska-citizens-militia?hl=en

[JJ Alaska]

The internet has porn ?? where I want some :)

David it was not directly spoken of but beat around by the comment
about the Colonial Milita that we would not be here today if not for,
do not forget they held the line 14 months before a formal declaration
of war was even made and a regular army talked of. Shot fired April
1775

They did fight for the same cause but they did so the way they felt
was best and the same way it will happen again, learn from history to
know the future it always repeats itself, only the time between cycles
changes.

I do fully agree with Franke statement that people need to stop
hiding in fear, they are only hiding from allies, but again history
teaches us this is not going to change it sucks guys but we are going
to need to face the fact we will not have a 50 million man patriot
revolution, only 3% of the Colonies population picked up arms and
fought for several years, the percentage grew over time, and those
supporting from the shadows grew over time, remember not all can
fight, regular life has to continue just as it had to in the colonies,
food must be gathered , children tended to and protected, basic things
like clothing or shoes, war materials these things must be acquired,
and not all can be taken from the enemy your going to put holes in
alot of it, or you should be, no spray and pray. So please do not get
discouraged by what seems a lack of numbers, I will take Quality over
Quanity any day.

And let me clear something up about Hutaree, I am friends with some
of them and speaking from first hand knowledge. They were set up from
the inside, it can happen to ANYONE so do not even kid yourself that
it can not happen to you, people have been betrayed by friends,
family, and even brothers, fathers, mothers and sisters. They were
ambushed at a FUNERAL set up from the get go. The company size unit
was actually several hundred personnel from 4 counties , DHS, Michigan
state police, and BATFE ( ATF ) they locked down the entire area , hit
the Stone family, also a few other members in Ohio and Indiana, not
nine other states, other raids that are not related are being linked
to this. And what about the Stone family, let us not call them
Hutaree, the entire unit was not hit just the core of it, the Stone
family, and they hit them all a entire family and only a few of us
still remember and are still trying to help them, still no evidence,
still no real charges against them, still no trials and justice, and
they are STILL IN JAIL, but so quickly forgotten by most.

Did hundreds of units mobilize no, but dozens DID, we forget our fun
toys of instance communications go alot faster then units trying to
respond to what ended up being a hit and run operation setting them up
at a pre known and planned location to hit them, and flee fast , which
sadly they did and actually performed it well.

I do agree having support in your local area is good, and very
helpful, but right now , I do not need to know any information about
units in fairbanks, they can not respond in even a semi timely matter
to aid me dealing with a ruby ridge , or waco , or Hutaree swoop and
scoot, when they can respond they will know what is going on by then
as even without the internet or cell phones news travels fast, I do
want to know about friendly units in my AO, but nothing more so I can
not even accidently give out potentially damaging information to the
enemy, just my personal preference and how I will operate.

Please do not take my comments as an attack, this forum is supposed
to be a medium for which we can exchange ideas, opinions and beleifs,
these are mine.

Death to the NWO , we shall prevail

SSGT Jensen Mat-Su Arctic Cats

On Oct 14, 11:51 pm, bob bob <dzfoxf...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> and lets remember the only thing the internet can agree on is porn
> DropzoneBill
>
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:12:47 -0700
> > Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Should militias communicate with each other.

> > From: JasonR.Jen...@yahoo.com

> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -

[david...@hotmail.com]

Thanks JJ. All views are necessary and valued.

JJ Alaska <JasonR...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[FrankeSchein]

I do believe that the initial thread herein was referencing
communications ability.
Without effective communications, the world just got suddenly smaller
and much more dangerous.
Command & Control functions are needed, but the primary function of a
C&C is to rapidly execute orders. Orders flow downwards as a result of
both strategy and allocation of resources--and it all culminates with
communications.

An investment of resources is worthless unless there is a capable
dissemination of critical information during critical times. Since we
are spread geographically across the map, and the mere fact that time,
distance, and other factors work against us—it makes sense that each
militia unit have the ability to both transmit and receive critical
information.

Let’s look at one particular example:
The opposition stages a pre-dawn raid against a select group of
targets. Primarily the mission is to “Snatch & Grab” two leaders of
the resistance.

Units are transported to the target area via a centralized plan
structure.

Shock troops and scouts are deployed first--in order to contain the
target area.

Main force troops enter the target area with the intent of saturation
the target with high volume of troops, and overwheliming any
opposition.

Yet-one lone rider can breach these plans, throw disarray into the
entire plan spectrum, and create conditions that lessen the
oppositions ability to carry out and execute their plans. His name was
Paul Revere, and the theory of “One If By Land, and Two If By sea” on
that momentous night of April 18th 1775 was the predecessor of modern
communications, as was his epic ride.

Paul Revere was instrumental in establishing an intelligence and alarm
system that eventually lead to a cohesive communications network that
sent other 40 riders on that fateful night galloping away to warn
other patriot that the British were enroute, with the intent of
killing Samuel Adams and John Hancock.

Were it not for Revere’s communication network, history and the
revolution could have turned out very different.

Thank you for allowing me to join this group and share my ideas
herein. It’s a pleasure to be part of such a great group of patriots.

[ray southwell]

JJ,

Frequently we forget things change when you exercise your Second Amendment right by actively being involved in an "Unorganized Militia." As co-founder of the Michigan Militia in 1994, we frequently had difficulty controlling the speech of members.

 

People always want to talk about “what if” scenario. We’ll tell our friends what we will do if the government does this or that. That speech is fine outside the militia. It becomes a “terrorist threat” within the militia structure.

 

There have been many prosecuted for their speech to other members within the militia. Unfortunately, those other members may be government plants, to get the membership talking in areas that will get them arrested.

 

The Hutaree arrests revolved around this type of speech.

 

Norm and I have never been arrested in our 16 years of public discussion and militia activities. When members start to talk in areas inappropriate, we would stop the conversation or walk away.

 

Be smart. Understand your Militia group has informants within. Stop conversations involving the “what if” scenarios or walk away.

 

Ray Southwell 

---

From: JJ Alaska <JasonR...@yahoo.com>
To: Alaska Citizens Militia <alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 5:29:49 AM

--
Welcome to the Alaska Citizens Militia forum.
To post send email to alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com

To unsubscribe send email to alaska-citizens-militia+unsub...@googlegroups.com

[Robyn Noel]

Lists are bad. Many times they fall into the wrong hands, makes it easy to find militia members.  Better verbal plans and places to gather that all know.  I am not afraid to put my name on a list.  I just want to give myself and other the best chance possible. 

Today's enemy (for lack of a better word right now) is a different one from the one in the revolutionary war days.  Like night and day.  Different tactics need to ge used.  Giving them a list to go by is not a good idea to go by.  My own opinion, and why my name will never appear on any list.   R

---

From: David Luntz <david...@hotmail.com>

To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, October 14, 2010 9:38:41 PM

[Robyn Noel]

I agree, the less people that know your intentions the easier it is to be invisible and able to carry out the necessary work.  Nothing is ever easier the more people that know your business.  R

---

From: ray southwell <rai...@yahoo.com>
To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 9:11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Should militias communicate with each other.

To unsubscribe send email to alaska-citizens-m...@googlegroups.com

[ray southwell]

Robyn,

We are all on the list. I have always said if I am on a list, I want to be at the top. I wonder why we are frightened on being on a list?

 

Please tell me anyone you know who has been arrested for being on a list.

 

Ray Southwell

---

From: Robyn Noel <noel...@yahoo.com>
To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 9:15:42 AM
Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Lists are bad

[ray southwell]

Robyn,

 

Sorry I did not make myself clear.

 

The Unorganized Militia needs to be well-regulated. It has nothing to do with an individuals intention's or being invisible. We are and should be visible. Your statements imply we have something to hide. This is the type of statements that generates fear and cause people to avoid the militia.

 

Ray Southwell 

---

From: Robyn Noel <noel...@yahoo.com>

To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 9:19:11 AM

[nicole smyth]

Ray, i believe that Robyn already knows" he/she?" is on a list, but is catious not to get on a red alert list, please dont say "whats the difference what kind of list your on" a difference could be as an example to you quoting you never got arrested while in the MM to individuals in the Hutaree that have, some people come here for info and have no intentions of joining a militia untill they know more about that unit, if they even want to get involved at all.........joe --- On Fri, 10/15/10, ray southwell <rai...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Ironartist]

Ray I totally agree can I be second

On Oct 15, 10:05 am, ray southwell <rait...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Robyn,
> We are all on the list. I have always said if I am on a list, I want to be at
> the top. I wonder why we are frightened on being on a list?
>
> Please tell me anyone you know who has been arrested for being on a list.
>
> Ray Southwell
>
> ________________________________

> From: Robyn Noel <noelr...@yahoo.com>

> To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 9:15:42 AM
> Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Lists are bad
>
> Lists are bad. Many times they fall into the wrong hands, makes it easy to find
> militia members.  Better verbal plans and places to gather that all know.  I am
> not afraid to put my name on a list.  I just want to give myself and other the
> best chance possible. 
>
> Today's enemy (for lack of a better word right now) is a different one from the
> one in the revolutionary war days.  Like night and day.  Different tactics need
> to ge used.  Giving them a list to go by is not a good idea to go by.  My own
> opinion, and why my name will never appear on any list.   R
>
> ________________________________

> From: David Luntz <david.lu...@hotmail.com>

> > From: JasonR.Jen...@yahoo.com

> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -

[ray southwell]

“Red Alert list” It that the top of the list. It is all about fear.

As I said earlier, the Hutaree people were arrested for  “what if scenario.” It was all about talk (see- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/03/michigan-militia-members-_n_561337.html) It will be difficult for them to get a fair trial.

 All groups have been infiltrated. (including family and friends) Individuals will attempt to get you talking about areas that will get you arrested.

You are correct, people come to get information and run scared when we continue to perpetuate the fear within this group.

Ray Southwell

---

From: nicole smyth <joan...@yahoo.com>
To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 10:27:04 AM

[ray southwell]

Ironartist,

Competition is the American way. Lets compete for the top of the list.

Ray

---

From: Ironartist <vision...@gmail.com>
To: Alaska Citizens Militia <alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 10:53:55 AM
Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Lists are bad

--
Welcome to the Alaska Citizens Militia forum.
To post send email to alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com

To unsubscribe send email to alaska-citizens-militia+unsub...@googlegroups.com

[Robyn Noel]

My intention was not to imply that we had something to hide or that anyone has reason to be afraid.  If anyone wanted to point me out and identify me as a Militia member today in any town in Alaska it doesn't bother me in the least.  I just like to know that any list that I am on, will not fall into the wrong hands when the Militia is needed most.  I believe the amendment reads "well organized Militia". 

 

Don't get me wrong, I feel like there is a great need for patriots to band together before it is too late.  I just have had a really hard time figuring who everyone is in the organization part of the Militia here on the Peninsula. 

 

Who will hold the paperwork with peoples names on it (the list), will they protect the information (who has what, who knows what) ?  On the peninsula who is the training NCO or whatever name you want to call it.  Are there regular monthly meetings, training schedules, topic of interest training, (video, internet, or in booklets ). I know that there are plenty of you folks out there that have the knowlege to share.  A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Without training a weak link, like me, could cause others to lose their lives.  Marines are marched until they sweaty and then stood at attention in swarms of sand fleas, so that they learn not to sway at the fleas, because something so simple can give away the position of a whole platoon of men.  In a war, and this will be war, something as simple as swatting a flea can get a bunch of people killed.  I know this is an extreme example but it does show that things can go south with the smallest cause. No matter how much training I get I will never be compared to a Marine, but I want to learn so that I can give things my best shot.

 

As a group who of us is best suited to each part of the unit? Who can do the best in each job, who has the best chance of success, who will go with them?

 

 

I am not trying to stir up an argument that will take up the list space for days.  I guess I just want someone to explain to me how the Militia is organized on the Peninsula. Who is in charge?  Who will call us out to support other Militia members?  If I am called I would at least like to know the person well enough to recognize their voice.  Is there any places chosen for us to rally to prepare  for whatever situation we are called for?  These are some of the things related to the "list" that makes me hesitant. I am not hesitant about sharing my beliefs.    Robyn

 

 

 

 

---

From: ray southwell <rai...@yahoo.com>
To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 10:20:02 AM

[Robyn Noel]

It is your right to compete for anything you want to, if you want to be the top of the list then so be it.  Here goes, which is more important, the mission or being on the top of the list? If a list is obtained wrongly, you might noe even get the chance to compete.  Good luck with the Competition.  Robyn

---

From: ray southwell <rai...@yahoo.com>

To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 11:46:44 AM
Subject: Re: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Lists are bad

To unsubscribe send email to alaska-citizens-m...@googlegroups.com

[Norm Olson]

 

You've got to work hard to get on the RED list.   I made the SPLC's list this summer along with other Patriots

 

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/summer/meet-the-patriots?page=0,0

 

I was also mentioned by name in the Project Megiddo Report http://permanent.access.gpo.gov/lps3578/www.fbi.gov/library/megiddo/megiddo.pdf

 

As Ray says, "If you're going to be on a list, shoot for the top."   

 

There are many reasons that people don't want to be on anyone's list, and there are many lists that

one would not want be on, but being on a list of patriots shouldn't be one of them.    

 

The big question that I would ask is "Why are you concerned about being on a list?"  What is the actual

measureable and rational reason why a patriot should avoid being on a list of patriots who stand and

defend the Constitutiion against all enemies, both foreign and domestic?  The answer of course is

very personal, but I don't want fear to be that reason.   Fear is an strange critter...It's hard to catch and

hard to stop and like a skunk, it's effect is far reaching.     Isn't it better to be listed

with hundreds of others as being a real threat to tyrants?

 

This forum is read by people everywhere.   Every posting is public and the names and email addresses

of every individual is well known by both the state and the feds.    But why should that trouble anybody?

 

I only regret that I didn't do more.  So many lists and so little time.

[Rattlehead]

Ive heard the arguments on communication from both ends of the
spectrum, on this forum, locally, and talking with a few folks in
other states. Each side has its merits, and its faults. There are
those who do not want to end up under a microscope for being involved
in a militia. One person is afraid that the next guy is gonna do
something illegal, and bring law enforcement into their lives. This is
perfectly understandable, and it tends to be the argument of those who
have a lot more to risk such as families with children. Some folks
like their current lifestyle despite all the stuff that is going wrong
with our country (not to say they dont care), but are are not going to
be ready to risk it all until the situation requires it.

The problem with that is, if the SHTF, all those people you were
afraid to associate with, and have a direct line of communication with
before because you were afraid they were gonna do something stupid and
bring you down, are gonna be out of contact and nowhere to be found
when you are pinned down in your house for whatever reason. You'll be
saying "I wish those crazy bastards were here now, I could realy use
some help here!"

I'm gonna have to go with Frankie on this one, there needs to be some
form of communication aside from the internet, and phones. There needs
to be at least one, and preferably two poc's for each unit in the
event the first poc can not be reached. A simple telephonic alert
system would be a good start. Take the Peacemakers, and "The Liberty
Bell" for instance. It's in my opinion an ingeneous idea, and probably
quite functional for its purpose.

A step up from that would be some kind of long range radio
communication, even if it was one base station per unit, it could be
used in the event that the grid goes down. If no one knows you are in
trouble, how do you expect to get any help?

Once again, my two cents

Travis

[R Reed]

Hello Robyn, I am the training officer here on the peninsula, as well as the rest of the state so far, as I have been needed. I was formerly holding weekly training classes in Nikiski, Soldotna and Sterling, until a few months ago when the weather warmed and all of the regular attendees of the classes started to enjoy the great outdoors more, than training. We have recently returned to some limited training in Nikiski but, I see our classes resuming for the rest of the Militia in the days to come, and as always, you and all the members here are welcome, as space allows.   1st Sgt. Reed Tactical Training Officer Alaska Citizens Militia --- On Fri, 10/15/10, Robyn Noel <noel...@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Robyn Noel <noel...@yahoo.com> Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] The "List" To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com

[nicole smyth]

all those people you were afraid to associate with, and have a direct line of communication with before because you were afraid they were gonna do something stupid and bring you down, are gonna be out of contact and nowhere to be found when you are pinned down in your house for whatever reason. You'll be saying "I wish those crazy bastards were here now, I could realy use some help here!"

obvious im not afraid to meet up with any one or any group seeing that i got a hold of Norm a few years ago, ive had the IRS with the US marshals at my door at gunpoint,been to many court battles with the irs..im all in favor for meetups to get to know everyone, as far as wishing i could count on units to help me if it came down to it?  if a person hasn' t fought on paper, they will never fight with guns, ive learned that first hand i doubt very much that i would ever join a militia unless i knew everyone for many years.     i already have that part coverd ( without going in detail) of meeting patriots in my area when i woke up in the early 80s......  your wording that i posted tells me you think anybody that dont joint venture a militia doesn't have there shit together, a prime example would be when the truant officers come to my house with the US marshals to take my son because i didnt inroll him in a public school or the property tax goons come to kick me out of my home because i chose not to pay them, can you honestly say your unit or any will come and help if there is a firefight? ...all the best.....joe

From: Rattlehead <travis...@yahoo.com> Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Lists are bad

To: "Alaska Citizens Militia" <alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com>

[david...@hotmail.com]

Agree Travis

Rattlehead <travis...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>To unsubscribe send email to alaska-citizens-m...@googlegroups.com

[Joe Bradley]

" Ray say's, If you're going to be on a list, shoot for the top? well
hell, shoot for the moon Ray, quit paying your income and property
taxes, that way people will know who talks the talk and walks the
walk.. or is that the ''super duper'' red list that nobody wants to
get on? I meant this as a joke, but then again maybe i
didn't.......joe

On Oct 15, 4:02 pm, "Norm Olson" <normandm...@alaska.net> wrote:
> You've got to work hard to get on the RED list.   I made the SPLC's list this summer along with other Patriots
>

> http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-...
>
> I was also mentioned by name in the Project Megiddo Reporthttp://permanent.access.gpo.gov/lps3578/www.fbi.gov/library/megiddo/m...

>
> As Ray says, "If you're going to be on a list, shoot for the top."    
>
> There are many reasons that people don't want to be on anyone's list, and there are many lists that
> one would not want be on, but being on a list of patriots shouldn't be one of them.    
>
> The big question that I would ask is "Why are you concerned about being on a list?"  What is the actual
> measureable and rational reason why a patriot should avoid being on a list of patriots who stand and
> defend the Constitutiion against all enemies, both foreign and domestic?  The answer of course is
> very personal, but I don't want fear to be that reason.   Fear is an strange critter...It's hard to catch and
> hard to stop and like a skunk, it's effect is far reaching.     Isn't it better to be listed
> with hundreds of others as being a real threat to tyrants?
>
> This forum is read by people everywhere.   Every posting is public and the names and email addresses
> of every individual is well known by both the state and the feds.    But why should that trouble anybody?
>
> I only regret that I didn't do more.  So many lists and so little time.
>
>  Norm Olson
>
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: nicole smyth
>   To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
>   Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 11:27 AM
>   Subject: Re: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Lists are bad
>
>         Ray, i believe that Robyn already knows" he/she?" is on a list, but is catious not to get on a red alert list, please dont say "whats the difference what kind of list your on" a difference could be as an example to you quoting you never got arrested while in the MM to individuals in the Hutaree that have, some people come here for info and have no intentions of joining a militia untill they know more about that unit, if they even want to get involved at all.........joe
>

>         --- On Fri, 10/15/10, ray southwell <rait...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>           From: ray southwell <rait...@yahoo.com>
>           Subject: Re: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Lists are bad
>           To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
>           Date: Friday, October 15, 2010, 10:05 AM
>
>           Robyn,
>           We are all on the list. I have always said if I am on a list, I want to be at the top. I wonder why we are frightened on being on a list?
>
>           Please tell me anyone you know who has been arrested for being on a list.
>
>           Ray Southwell
>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>           From: Robyn Noel <noelr...@yahoo.com>

>           To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
>           Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 9:15:42 AM
>           Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Lists are bad
>
>           Lists are bad. Many times they fall into the wrong hands, makes it easy to find militia members.  Better verbal plans and places to gather that all know.  I am not afraid to put my name on a list.  I just want to give myself and other the best chance possible.  
>           Today's enemy (for lack of a better word right now) is a different one from the one in the revolutionary war days.  Like night and day.  Different tactics need to ge used.  Giving them a list to go by is not a good idea to go by.  My own opinion, and why my name will never appear on any list.   R
>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>           From: David Luntz <david.lu...@hotmail.com>

>           To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
>           Sent: Thu, October 14, 2010 9:38:41 PM
>           Subject: RE: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Should militias communicate with each other.
>
>           JJ, I've been following this and I don't see anyone talking Central Command. I dont see anyone talking Central Communications Network.
>
>           What i have heard and am for is knowing whos out there that I can call on for assistance.  This is not only during dark times, but maybe next month I want to have a range and need some range safety assitance or trainers.
>
>           You stated that you are against central anything.  Isnt this centralized comms we are using right now?
>
>           I think what folks are talking about is putting togeather a commander's POC list so you, I or any other commander can pick up the phone and discuss one on one or send an email if they want and in worse conditions use to pop that flare..
>
>           As CDR Olsen stated, we should not be afraid to put our name on paper as our fore fathers did years ago.
>
>           You point out some great OPSEC concerns and I too believe that we can not put great faith in Cell phones., GPS Units, the Internet, or land line phones, We discussed this last saturday during the DZ mtg, where we agreed that couriers may be needed. I do like CDR Schein's radio idea.  And as CDR Fulton stated, we may never need to talk to any other unit except those on our left, right, front or rear, but it would be nice to be able to if we needed too at least as long as the phones and or internet are usable.
>
>           In Service of the Republic
>
>           Dave
>
>           > Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:12:47 -0700
>           > Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Should militias communicate with each other.

>           > From: JasonR.Jen...@yahoo.com

> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -

[ray southwell]

Robyn,

It is “A well regulated Militia…” It is made up of the organized and unorganized.

You raise some great points about the importance of training. We sometime think the Militia is command/control. It is not an army. The Militia is command/information. Leadership is not going to order you to do anything that your conscious would not allow you to do. The leadership informs individuals about the situation and the membership responds accordingly

George Washington had difficulty with controlling the Militia. The Militia is not under any individual control. At Lexington/Concord the Militia stood and fought because they wanted, not because they were ordered.

I think google is holding the current list of members.

Ray Southwell

---

From: Robyn Noel <noel...@yahoo.com>
To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 3:05:34 PM
Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] The "List"

[ray southwell]

I guess I am not at the top of their list. I will have to try harder.

 

Perhaps it is because I sued them for libel/defamation back in the 90's.

 

Ray Southwell

---

From: Norm Olson <norma...@alaska.net>
To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 4:02:40 PM

[Rattlehead]

Hey Joe,

I wasnt attempting to imply that you dont have your shit together in
any way, so please dont take offense bud. If my wording is negative in
nature, its because I was tired, and I will say I am a little
frustrated with the present situation. We are in a world of shit, and
we dont have the boots for it, and we dont have a lot of time to
prepare and organize. No one is willing to trust anyone it seems like
until after its too late. I have no problem admitting to anyone that I
am scared shitless of what lies ahead for us as a country. We are
going to need all the help we can get!

I applaud you for your courage to stand up to the IRS in court. I do
not envy you the nightmare that must have been. I have had my dealings
with the system in other venues such as Social Security, Veterans
Affairs, and the local courts, on the behalf of my father, so I can
only imagine how it must have been dealing with the IRS.

However you did comment about "those who wont fight on paper wont
fight with guns". I would say thats not entirely accurate. There are
plenty of us out there who believe that the situation is beyond
repair, are finished talking, and are simply waiting and preparing for
the inevitable.

To answer you question, all im saying is that if we had some crude
form of communication, we would be in a better position to help each
other out.

Take care,

Travis

[ray southwell]

Joe,

My fight has always been at the federal level. I have not filed with the IRS for 19years. I have taken the IRS to their "Tax Court" three time since 1996. I have used the same Constitutional stand from the beginning.

 

In March of this year the IRS started to take 90% of my payroll check. To date they have taken $40,000. I am in financial ruin. I am not in despair. My God has kept me warm,dry and certainly well fed. I just had a miracle last week when I received my Permanent Fund check. To those non-believers, perhaps the IRS has become kinder and gentler and let me have the check.

 

I have made my IRS stand very public. I have handed out 1200 campaign brochures and expressed my Tax stand in them. I have also spoken with the media. (See the end of this article- http://redoubtreporter.wordpress.com/2010/05/19/militia-leader-on-the-ballot-%e2%80%94-ray-southwell-challenges-mike-chenault-for-district-34/

 To those in Region I, voting in Alaska, look on page 54 (voter guide) and see my written thoughts concerning the IRS.

 

It does not cause any change to hide your behavior. If you are in a Militia do it boldly and openly. If you have a tax stand, do it openly and boldly. Hiding never changes a thing and causes distrust.

 

Ray Southwell

---

From: Joe Bradley <joan...@yahoo.com>

To: Alaska Citizens Militia <alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Sat, October 16, 2010 6:32:35 AM

Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Lists are bad

--
Welcome to the Alaska Citizens Militia forum.
To post send email to alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com

To unsubscribe send email to alaska-citizens-militia+unsub...@googlegroups.com

[nicole smyth]

thanks Travis, all is good, theirs more brothers out there then you realise, its never going to be too late to prepare, untill more people start losing their homes and cant pay their bills it will be a struggle to wake them up to organize, we are lucky to be here in Alaska (not counting anchorage), more then likely we will see it hit in the lower 48 before shtf here, my local gun store wich is very small didn't sell 80k rounds of ammo in 2 days b/c people like to plink at targets... i'm sure your right that people will stand up, i try to tell myself they will as well... all the best to you...........joe --- On Sat, 10/16/10, Rattlehead <travis...@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Rattlehead <travis...@yahoo.com> Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Lists are bad To: "Alaska Citizens Militia" <alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com>

[nicole smyth]

Ray, i am aware of your isues with them and commend you on your fight...one day my father and i were watching Donahue sometime in the early 90s i believe, here we saw a bunch of guys dressed up in fatigues speaking out against the fed,my father said to me ''these guys got brass''   i never forgot that show that day and is why i recognised you when we first met, you can't emagine what it was like for me to meet someone that was actualy awake, at the time that show aired it seemed that nobody was, shortly after we met i went to the rev march in DC and also the RNC where i seen first hand of total coruption, i loved every minute of it just to be around similar mindsets as to the same with everyone here ...........joe

--- On Sat, 10/16/10, ray southwell <rai...@yahoo.com> wrote:

To unsubscribe send email to alaska-citizens-m...@googlegroups.com

[Norm Olson]

Personal Responsibility, Choices, and Consequences.

 

If someone chooses to not pay taxes or chooses to grow pot in the back bedroom and

subsequently brings the law down on them, doesn't it follow that the person has made choices

KNOWING the consequences?      Going to the defense of other militia members who

have made such choices won't be well supported.    Do I have the right to refuse

to obey laws that might bring enforcers to my door?   Yes, of course I do, but do I have

the right to expect that the militia will defend my lawbreaking?    I don't think so.

 

Here's the problem.   We all live in our own private world.  We alone know what we do

and why we do it.   It's only when one of us is arrested and our private world becomes

public that we ATTEMPT to explain and justify our actions.  But at this point, it's too late.

 

Some years ago, a person associated with the Michigan Militia had a meth lab at his

rural farm.    The sheriff of Charlevoix County called me to explain

why they were launching a raid that very night.   He wanted to know if there would be

a confrontation with the militia if this guy went down or if a stand-off took place at the farm.

I assured him that if indeed the individual(s) was cooking meth, he would not have a

problem.  I called the local militia commander and briefed him.    The dude was taken

down while trying to drive away across the back 40.   

 

If we really believe that what we do is worthy of the consequences, we ought to share

with others what we're doing and why.   If you're building bombs in your basement and

really believe it's a good idea, then by all means share your reasons with those you expect

to help you when the SWAT team shows up.    It's not fair to others to expect them to

understand why you're doing what you're doing or expect their immediate support when

the enforcers arrive.

 

Each of us holds to different standards and values of what is right or wrong.   It is unfair

to expect other people will support my behavior without questioning what I do and why

I do it.   But since we live our private and secret lives, others simply do not know WHY

we behave as we do.  If you expect the support of the militia AFTER the fact, then you'd

better discuss your activities with the militia before.   Just ask the question to your

group:  Can I expect your support if I'm busted for  ________________ (fill in the blank).  

 

I feel this way about it:   If I make a choice to break the law, I must also accept the

the consequences.  That's the mature way to accept responsibility.

I don't expect others to come to my aid AFTER the fact if I haven't briefed them BEFOREHAND

on what I'm doing and why.    It's very difficult to communicate with your friends when you're

in lock-up or in a stand-off situation.    If you expect my support, you need to tell me NOW exactly

what you're doing and why.  I'll then advise you and let you know if you can expect support.

If you want my support, keep me in the loop...don't wait till your deeds are published in

the newspaper.    

 

If a militia member is breaking the law, he/she needs to  confer with all the others who

he/she expects to support the deed BEFORE the law arrives.    Don't try to justify

your deed after being busted and don't automatically expect the militia to come running

if they were never fully briefed on what you're doing.   It's just not fair.

 

Norm Olson 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: nicole smyth

To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com

To unsubscribe send email to alaska-citizens-m...@googlegroups.com

[nicole smyth]

Norm, you need to look over again what was said, im not expecting any help from a militia that you and other likeminded patriots are forming, weather you think not paying taxes is breaking the law or not is irrelivent,      by the way,  dont you think having a meth lab is just maybe a little differant then not enrolling your kids in school or not paying income taxes?  and yes im aware of the difference between lawfull and legal,        should i come right out and say it that i'm looking for like minded patriots from here that have more of an aggresive standards?  no, not at all, you have already explained to me your units intentions and i respect that, but for me and a lot of other patriots, waiting around and getting ready for martial law is going to come here sooner or later so why not bang heads with the feds on the isues of taxation and indoctrinating public schools? your next door neighbor is in a way, is he not? --- On Sat, 10/16/10, Norm Olson <norma...@alaska.net> wrote:

[Norm Olson]

Robyn,

 

    It is impossible to prepare for every possible situation.  Many of the questions you ask don't have

answers...yet.   Since the militia is reactionary, you can that there won't be much activity until the

threat level increases.   Right now, the biggest "enemy" we face is economic collapse.   How does

one train to fight against hyper-inflation?  At present, there is no threat from the central government of Alaska

or the federal government and no real threat of foreign invasion or terrorist attack.   What is happening is that our conventional

enemies are falling apart...they are marching into the sea.   The collapse of America's economy will

change the balance of power back to the people.  The central government will be greatly weakened

and the emergence of local governance will increase.    Expect to see the creation of sheriffs in

smaller communities as the people themselves take responsibility for law and order.   The militia

will be a vital asset to the local sheriff.  

 

   When the economy collapses, widespread anarchy will increase.  There will be the threat of

home invasion from those bent on taking what you have.   What kind of training will you need

to protect your family and your own property?   How can you defend yourself 24/7?   There is no

way that each and every one of us will have the support of the militia completely, but by creating

the office of sheriff, with a posse of militia, law and order can be maintained.   

 

   Please don't fret yourself about the lack of "organization" within the militia.   This forum is perhaps

more beneficial than militia meetings since it gives us a place to discuss what needs to be done.

Right now, each individual needs to train mentally, physically, emotionally, and spiritually in order

to face what is coming.

 

   You may want to read more.   I suggest books such as "Patriots" by James Wesley Rawles 

and "One Second After" by William R. Forstchen.    These are ESSENTIAL reads if you want

to prepare for social meltdown and how to prepare.   Perhaps you'll want to visit survival websites

to make sure you have needed supplies when everything collapses.

 

   We are going to be fighting a different kind of enemy this time around.  It won't be a war against

the central government's forces.   It will be a war against social anarchy and chaos.   

The militia will have new responsibilities as it assists local law enforcement to maintain order

without falling into tyranny.      In this respect, Alaska is very fortunate to be isolated from the

lower 48.    We will not experience widespread panic and rioting but there will be rationing

and hardship for those who are not prepared.

 

Norm Olson

 

  

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: ray southwell

To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com

[ray southwell]

Joe,

Thanks for your kind words.

My point is to show individuals how to face their fears. Some believe they can face their fear if others will join them.  I face my fear because of my faith system. I am frightened. 

I believe most have a weak faith system and fear overpowers them.

Here is the Donahue’s show on YouTube.  (1994-5 parts in total) Watch part one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obOFZY77tnQ&feature=related  at the 6:44 minute mark when I brought up the concern of the National Debt.  Listen to Donahue’s  Ignorance.

I understand economics more today and understand how they have propped it up over the years. It cannot last forever.

Are we ready?

Ray Southwell

---

From: nicole smyth <joan...@yahoo.com>

To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, October 16, 2010 10:03:01 AM

[JJ Alaska]

Please do not misunderstand me or think in anyway I fear my name on
paper, as I clearly do not being as public and vocal as I am. I am on
radio, forums and publicly speak out and stand against corruption in
Alaska driving to Anchorage to help fight that gay rights crap again
and aiding to remove the weapon prohibited signs proudly walking in
the building with many others armed, soon after they were removed.

I know my name is on a list, more then one I have no doubt, I kinda
like it makes me feel like what I am doing is working to piss them off
and stand against them. I only fear having my own list, that it seems
I poorly communicated. I do not want a list in my hands with any of
your names and numbers outside my AO. It is just a personal choice
just the thought of even accidently causing a fellow patriot heartache
and problems bothers me, which is why I spoke against something like
that.

We should make unique forms of communication, just please no grand
super hub that everyone works from. The founding fathers were
ingenious, couriers were only a small part of how messages were
exchanged if I am not mistake they still try to keep some of the
methods classified. Messages were hidden in local bulletins, posters,
and the book Common Sense which was very very popular 1 in 5 homes
having a copy was used a great deal as well to pass on messages. A
reason I ask everyone in my unit to carry a citizens rule book, a
small little book that can be used to pass on countless coded messages
over radio, by courier or whatever.

We want to beable to respond and aid anyone at anytime that we can,
sadly our communications today even messages passed by relay one hub
to another, which is how it works for the most part right now in
Alaska, from one end to the other messages get thru some slower then
others but always faster then units can move. If we could form a full
out real Airborne unit that would make for a fast response team.

Jack booted thugs have kicked up the harassment as of late, they
sneaked in breaking out a window on my fathers truck, nothing missing
or altered just walked in and used what appears to be a baton from the
indent on the window, and they have harassed others in my unit as well
going so far as to attempt to burn down structures. They have also
been using CPS ( OCS ) to harass my family. This is why I get so
protective of my guys, we get in their face and it comes with a price.

God bless, and keep you powder dry
SSGT Jensen, Mat-Su Arctic Cats

On Oct 15, 10:05 am, ray southwell <rait...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Robyn,
> We are all on the list. I have always said if I am on a list, I want to be at
> the top. I wonder why we are frightened on being on a list?
>
> Please tell me anyone you know who has been arrested for being on a list.
>
> Ray Southwell
>
> ________________________________

> From: Robyn Noel <noelr...@yahoo.com>

> To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 9:15:42 AM
> Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Lists are bad
>
> Lists are bad. Many times they fall into the wrong hands, makes it easy to find
> militia members.  Better verbal plans and places to gather that all know.  I am
> not afraid to put my name on a list.  I just want to give myself and other the
> best chance possible. 
>
> Today's enemy (for lack of a better word right now) is a different one from the
> one in the revolutionary war days.  Like night and day.  Different tactics need
> to ge used.  Giving them a list to go by is not a good idea to go by.  My own
> opinion, and why my name will never appear on any list.   R
>
> ________________________________

> From: David Luntz <david.lu...@hotmail.com>

> > From: JasonR.Jen...@yahoo.com

> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -

[Norm Olson]

 

 

I wasn't labeling or making value judgments on anyone's behavior.  Please don't take offense. 

 

I was pointing out the fact that as a member of a larger group, an individual must be accountable.

If a person wants to be part of the militia, he/she needs to avoid things that would discredit

other members of that group.   And if a person persists in behavior that will discredit the

larger group, he/she should not expect support or defense.     The question is, will I accept

the consequences of my choices without becoming bitter toward those who do not accept

my behavior?

 

It is altogether predictable that eventually someone in the Alaska Militia will be arrested for

something that we all agree is a very bad deed.   When that happens, a great deal of conflict

and stress will be generated in and between militia groups.  There will be allegations that

the charges were trumped up, or that evidence was manipulated, etc. etc.    It's not a pretty

picture.   

 

Each and every militia member is responsible to others and is answerable for his/her actions.

 

It's bad enough when the enforcers have to manufacture evidence and frame a militia member

for something they did not do.  It's far worse, however, when the militia member is guilty

and tries to mitigate his/her behavior by hiding behind the militia or expecting others to come

to his/her defense.

 

Again, just ask the question to the others in your group:

  "Will you come to my defense if I ____________________ (fill in the blank)"?

[JJ Alaska]

I fully agree, unlawful and socially unacceptable actions and
behavior will get you zero support from militia or anyone else for
that matter, and being very open is important it protects you in many
ways when everyone knows everything about you, hard to trump things
up. That is why everyone knows what I do and why that I love and care
about, Hell then even know my bank account balance, which right now is
$ 1.19

Norm you really hit a great point that so many do not think about,
you are responsible for your own actions, good or bad. Example we have
chosen to not battle the state on taxes and battle in other areas,
knowing full well a day would likely come when the tax battle would be
upon us regardless.

That day has come, we can no longer afford to pay the insane property
taxes levied against us, food is more important. So before this
becomes an issue in newspapers I made sure to let everyone I know and
care about know, hey we can not afford to pay taxes this year, and I
will not be run off the land I have put so much into, they have no
right charging me RENT on my land anyway, so when the time comes I
will fight and die here guys, some offered aid should that happen, and
a few said I was a moron. Their choice and I respect them all, because
it was MY choice to stay right here on what is rightfully mine and
defend it.

Death to the NWO, we shall prevail

SSGT Jensen, Mat-Su Arctic Cats

>         --- On Sat, 10/16/10, Norm Olson <normandm...@alaska.net> wrote:

>                     From: Rattlehead <traviswsas...@yahoo.com>
>                     Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Lists are bad
>                     To: "Alaska Citizens Militia" <alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com>
>                     Date: Saturday, October 16, 2010, 1:41 AM
>
>                     Ive heard the arguments on communication from both ends of the
>                     spectrum, on this forum, locally, and talking with a few folks in
>                     other states. Each side has its merits, and its faults. There are
>                     those who do not want to end up under a microscope for being involved
>                     in a militia. One person is afraid that the next guy is gonna do
>                     something illegal, and bring law enforcement into their lives. This is
>                     perfectly understandable, and it tends to be the argument of those who
>                     have a lot more to risk such as families with children. Some folks
>                     like their current lifestyle despite all the stuff that is going wrong
>                     with our country (not to say they dont care), but are are not going to
>                     be ready to risk it all until the situation requires it.
>
>                     The problem with that is,
>

[Norm Olson]

I applaud your stand. Will it be paying taxes or buying food and
fuel to keep your family warm and safe?

Each of us has a choice to make. Your stand, just like Ray's is to
resist non-violently, for now anyway. It's going to require some
very serious soul-searching
and contemplation to make these kinds of decisions and to stand alone,
if necessary.

Norm

[Robyn Noel]

Norm, I have been reading survival sights since the late 90's, I have read hundreds of books, reading is my area, I read 500 words a minute.  I am rather well versed in many survival techniques.  I think this list is a wonderful resource for the people that it serves.  I have come to realize that the problem is not with the list or the Militia, the problem is me.  I am at a point in my preparation education that is beyond the lists information base. 

 

I get frustrated with political discussions.  That is not the fault of the list members, it is mine. I believe in most of the issues with the government and the slow stealing of our constitutional rights.  I just don't want to beat a dead horse over and over.  We are where, we are, and I guess you are saying we will stay were we are until economic breakdown. 

 

 I believe that you pretty much hit that one on the head. I am just not willing to set around and discuss the political situation in America, waiting for an economic meltdown.  I plan to learn as much as I can while I am waiting, and have the chance to try out what I learn.  I have just thought the list would include more helpful information for me than it does.  Me again, not the list.

 

I just want to be more active and learn more, so I think that I need to move on .  And by the way Norm, no one can make me do anything that I did not think was right, except, God and my Mother. Good Luck getting the police to accept Militia's help after the meltdown. No one will trust anyone they don't know, when you show up with your rifle your more likely to get shot than welcomed.

 

  Also just for a last jab of my opinion,  I don't think that you can compare a modern day militia with the Minute Men Militia.  Thats almost comical.  They lived within miles of each other, knew each other, and met regularly in secret.  They were fighting a common enemy.  In a town like Anchorage for example, after a meltdown, there would likely be more than one enemy and they would not be well defined, they probably will not wear redcoats to make it easy.  It just seems to me like not much is getting done except talk and bantering back and forward about your views on politics and life.  Just my thoughts.  I have read time and time again that the list is a place for people to express their thoughts.  So, these are my thought.  I am not trying to raise a fuss, just making my thoughts known, and again the problem is not with the list, the problem is mine.  R

---

From: Norm Olson <norma...@alaska.net>

To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, October 16, 2010 12:20:14 PM
Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] The Militia In The Midst of Social Unrest

[Norm Olson]

Robyn,

You raise some good points. No, we are not like the colonial
militia, but then again, neither was the French Resistance. We have
much to learn from the French Resistance fighters if we find ourselves
up against a central government force that operates within our country
in the same way that the Nazis did in France.

Personally, I don't anticipate that. The central government will be
hard pressed to keep a large force outfitted and motivated when the
bottom falls out of the dollar. The needs of hundreds of millions of
people will demand that the central government focus its resources to
quell the masses in large urban areas. No one is interested in
Alaska and Alaskans need not be overly concerned with threats of
martial law. Granted, Anchorage may see some problems, but it won't
be like Detroit or Newark or Philly.

The greatest threat will be hunger and cold and shortages that will
affect everyone. In a situation like that, one may find instructional
booklets on gardening, cannning, wilderness living, etc, far more
valuable than army field manuals.

There is no one-size-fits-all militia. Each group will have to do
its own force/threat analysis and determine what is best in its
situation.

I'm not sure you'll ever find the perfect outfit that has the
resources of time, money, material, and manpower to put together a
fighting force able to take on a modern, hi-tech opponent. It's not
going to happen. But again, maybe a conventional force is not what we
will be facing. Perhaps it will be starvation and hardships.

You read, but still you're not satisfied with the knowledge you've
amassed. You may be far more knowledgeable than any of us, but it
will take far more than book knowledge to win the day. There's got
to be a real "fire in the belly" to stay the course. There must also
be true faith and committment to not only the cause, but to each other
who stands against tyranny. But perhaps tyranny isn't the foe...what
if it's anarchy?

We do with what we have and with imperfect understanding. Each of
us comes to the table with our own little battles that we fight each
day. It won't be until the lights go out and we wake up hungry that
we will find that there are some things more valueable than the
material toys that surround us..

I sincerely hope you find what you're looking for.

Norm Olson

[david...@hotmail.com]

nicole smyth <joan...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Norm, you need to look over again what was said, im not expecting any help from a militia that you and other likeminded patriots are forming, weather you think not paying taxes is breaking the law or not is irrelivent,      by the way,  dont you think having a meth lab is just maybe a little differant then not enrolling your kids in school or not paying income taxes?  and yes im aware of the difference between lawfull and legal,        should i come right out and say it that i'm looking for like minded patriots from here that have more of an aggresive standards?  no, not at all, you have already explained to me your units intentions and i respect that, but for me and a lot of other patriots, waiting around and getting ready for martial law is going to come here sooner or later so why not bang heads with the feds on the isues of taxation and indoctrinating public schools? your next door neighbor is in a way, is he not?
>
>--- On Sat, 10/16/10, Norm Olson <norma...@alaska.net> wrote:
>
>
>From: Norm Olson <norma...@alaska.net>

>Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Choices we make
>To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
>Date: Saturday, October 16, 2010, 10:44 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>Personal Responsibility, Choices, and Consequences.
> 
>If someone chooses to not pay taxes or chooses to grow pot in the back bedroom and
>subsequently brings the law down on them, doesn't it follow that the person has made choices
>KNOWING the consequences?      Going to the defense of other militia members who
>have made such choices won't be well supported.    Do I have the right to refuse
>to obey laws that might bring enforcers to my door?   Yes, of course I do, but do I have
>the right to expect that the militia will defend my lawbreaking?    I don't think so.
> 
>Here's the problem.   We all live in our own private world.  We alone know what we do
>and why we do it.   It's only when one of us is arrested and our private world becomes

>public that we ATTEMPT to explain and justify our actions.  But at this point, it's too late.

> 
>Some years ago, a person associated with the Michigan Militia had a meth lab at his
>rural farm.    The sheriff of Charlevoix County called me to explain
>why they were launching a raid that very night.   He wanted to know if there would be
>a confrontation with the militia if this guy went down or if a stand-off took place at the farm.
>I assured him that if indeed the individual(s) was cooking meth, he would not have a
>problem.  I called the local militia commander and briefed him.    The dude was taken
>down while trying to drive away across the back 40.   
> 
>If we really believe that what we do is worthy of the consequences, we ought to share
>with others what we're doing and why.   If you're building bombs in your basement and
>really believe it's a good idea, then by all means share your reasons with those you expect
>to help you when the SWAT team shows up.    It's not fair to others to expect them to
>understand why you're doing what you're doing or expect their immediate support when
>the enforcers arrive.
> 
>Each of us holds to different standards and values of what is right or wrong.   It is unfair
>to expect other people will support my behavior without questioning what I do and why
>I do it.   But since we live our private and secret lives, others simply do not know WHY

>we behave as we do.  If you expect the support of the militia AFTER the fact, then you'd

>better discuss your activities with the militia before.   Just ask the question to your
>group:  Can I expect your support if I'm busted for  ________________ (fill in the blank).  
> 
>I feel this way about it:   If I make a choice to break the law, I must also accept the
>the consequences.  That's the mature way to accept responsibility.
>I don't expect others to come to my aid AFTER the fact if I haven't briefed them BEFOREHAND
>on what I'm doing and why.    It's very difficult to communicate with your friends when you're
>in lock-up or in a stand-off situation.    If you expect my support, you need to tell me NOW exactly
>what you're doing and why.  I'll then advise you and let you know if you can expect support.
>If you want my support, keep me in the loop...don't wait till your deeds are published in
>the newspaper.    
> 
>If a militia member is breaking the law, he/she needs to  confer with all the others who
>he/she expects to support the deed BEFORE the law arrives.    Don't try to justify
>your deed after being busted and don't automatically expect the militia to come running
>if they were never fully briefed on what you're doing.   It's just not fair.
> 

>Norm Olson 
> 
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: nicole smyth
>To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com

>Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 4:22 AM
>Subject: Re: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Lists are bad
>
>
>
>
>
>
>all those people you were
>afraid to associate with, and have a direct line of communication with
>before because you were afraid they were gonna do something stupid and
>bring you down, are gonna be out of contact and nowhere to be found
>when you are pinned down in your house for whatever reason. You'll be
>saying "I wish those crazy bastards were here now, I could realy use
>some help here!"
>

>obvious im not afraid to meet up with any one or any group seeing that i got a hold of Norm a few years ago, ive had the IRS with the US marshals at my door at gunpoint,been to many court battles with the irs..im all in favor for meetups to get to know everyone, as far as wishing i could count on units to help me if it came down to it?  if a person hasn' t fought on paper, they will never fight with guns, ive learned that first hand i doubt very much that i would ever join a militia unless i knew everyone for many years.     i already have that part coverd ( without going in detail) of meeting patriots in my area when i woke up in the early 80s......  your wording that i posted tells me you think anybody that dont joint venture a militia doesn't have there shit together, a prime example would be when the truant officers come to my house with the US marshals to take my son because i didnt inroll him in a public school or the

> property tax goons come to kick me out of my home because i chose not to pay them, can you honestly say your unit or any will come and help if there is a firefight? ...all the best.....joe
>
>
>
>From: Rattlehead <travis...@yahoo.com>
>Subject: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Lists are bad

>To: "Alaska Citizens Militia" <alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com>

>Date: Saturday, October 16, 2010, 1:41 AM
>
>
>Ive heard the arguments on communication from both ends of the
>spectrum, on this forum, locally, and talking with a few folks in
>other states. Each side has its merits, and its faults. There are
>those who do not want to end up under a microscope for being involved
>in a militia. One person is afraid that the next guy is gonna do
>something illegal, and bring law enforcement into their lives. This is
>perfectly understandable, and it tends to be the argument of those who
>have a lot more to risk such as families with children. Some folks
>like their current lifestyle despite all the stuff that is going wrong
>with our country (not to say they dont care), but are are not going to
>be ready to risk it all until the situation requires it.
>

>The problem with that is, if the SHTF, all those people you were

>afraid to associate with, and have a direct line of communication with
>before because you were afraid they were gonna do something stupid and
>bring you down, are gonna be out of contact and nowhere to be found
>when you are pinned down in your house for whatever reason. You'll be
>saying "I wish those crazy bastards were here now, I could realy use
>some help here!"
>

>I'm gonna have to go with Frankie on this one, there needs to be some
>form of communication aside from the internet, and phones. There needs
>to be at least one, and preferably two poc's for each unit in the
>event the first poc can not be reached. A simple telephonic alert
>system would be a good start. Take the Peacemakers, and "The Liberty
>Bell" for instance. It's in my opinion an ingeneous idea, and probably
>quite functional for its purpose.
>
>A step up from that would be some kind of long range radio
>communication, even if it was one base station per unit, it could be
>used in the event that the grid goes down. If no one knows you are in
>trouble, how do you expect to get any help?
>
>Once again, my two cents
>
>Travis
>
>
>

[Joe Bradley]

Ray, have you seen this on Donahue? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbsmAVAgp4s
kind of makes Beck seem not so in controll of his show.

On Oct 16, 12:37 pm, ray southwell <rait...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Joe,
> Thanks for your kind words.
> My point is to show individuals how to face their fears. Some believe they can
> face their fear if others will join them.  I face my fear because of my faith
> system. I am frightened. 
> I believe most have a weak faith system and fear overpowers them.
> Here is the Donahue’s show on YouTube.  (1994-5 parts in total) Watch part one
> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obOFZY77tnQ&feature=related at the 6:44 minute
> mark when I brought up the concern of the National Debt.  Listen to Donahue’s
>  Ignorance.
> I understand economics more today and understand how they have propped it up
> over the years. It cannot last forever.
> Are we ready?
> Ray Southwell
>
> ________________________________

> From: nicole smyth <joand...@yahoo.com>

> To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Sat, October 16, 2010 10:03:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Lists are bad
>
> Ray, i am aware of your isues with them and commend you on your fight...one day
> my father and i were watching Donahue sometime in the early 90s i believe, here
> we saw a bunch of guys dressed up in fatigues speaking out against the fed,my
> father said to me ''these guys got brass''   i never forgot that show that day
> and is why i recognised you when we first met, you can't emagine what it was
> like for me to meet someone that was actualy awake, at the time that show aired
> it seemed that nobody was, shortly after we met i went to the rev march in DC
> and also the RNC where i seen first hand of total coruption, i loved every
> minute of it just to be around similar mindsets as to the same with everyone
> here ...........joe
>

> --- On Sat, 10/16/10, ray southwell <rait...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: ray southwell <rait...@yahoo.com>
> >Subject: Re: [AlaskaCitizensMilitia] Re: Lists are bad
> >To: alaska-citi...@googlegroups.com
> >Date: Saturday, October 16, 2010, 9:22 AM
>
> >Joe,
> >My fight has always been at the federal level. I have not filed with the IRS for
> >19years. I have taken the IRS to their "Tax Court" three time since 1996. I have
> >used the same Constitutional stand from the beginning.
>
> >In March of this year the IRS started to take 90% of my payroll check. To date
> >they have taken $40,000. I am in financial ruin. I am not in despair. My God has
> >kept me warm,dry and certainly well fed. I just had a miracle last week when I
> >received my Permanent Fund check. To those non-believers, perhaps the IRS has
> >become kinder and gentler and let me have the check.
>
> >I have made my IRS stand very public. I have handed out 1200 campaign
> >brochures and expressed my Tax stand in them. I have also spoken with the media.
> >(See the end of this

> >article- http://redoubtreporter.wordpress.com/2010/05/19/militia-leader-on-the...

>
> > To those in Region I, voting in Alaska, look on page 54 (voter guide) and see
> >my written thoughts concerning the IRS.
>
> >It does not cause any change to hide your behavior. If you are in a Militia do
> >it boldly and openly. If you have a tax stand, do it openly and boldly. Hiding
> >never changes a thing and causes distrust.
>
> >Ray Southwell
>
> ________________________________

> From: Joe Bradley <joand...@yahoo.com>

> ...
>
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