Sure...I think best "out loud" around other people, so I hope you don't mind
going "back and forth!"

I don't think I can call myself a compete Smalltalk "novice" anymore, though
I still feel like it compared with everyone else out there.  My programming
experience is purely procedural:  Assembly, VisualBasic, etc..., but I was
always trying to do Smalltalk-ish stuff.  It has taken me a LONG time to be
able to do "useful work."

Also keep in mind that I COMPLETELY missed the web-programming movement
while I was in the Army.  I have NO experience with HTML, CSS, Javascript,
etc, etc, etc...

With that in mind, I found Seaside challenging because it builds on your
[pre-existing] web knowledge.

Aida, in my mind, is much "simpler" in this regard, or at least more
"abstract."  I could actually (for the most part) "figure it out" by
browsing the classes and the WebDemoApp methods.

The idea of "naming conventions" confused me at first about Aida--you MUST
have a domain object (MyObject) that is the domain model for your
application (MyObjectApp).  Starting and stopping your site is a bit rough,
and styling your site can be confusing.  I can change the style now, but am
no good at CSS, so I am limited in what I can change.

For Squeak, Nicolas is doing some great Scriptaculous work (
http://nico.bioskop.fr/).  I found all the Ajax integration in Aida much
easier to understand than in Seaside, where I just didn't have a clue what
was going on.  In fact, Ajax is buried at the bottom of the Aida framework,
so it feels very much "built-in."

I the big reason I am using Aida is because it was "simple enough" for me.
 I always thought of myself as a "smart" programmer:  I have a long-ago
degree in Physics, and have been "programming" since I was 11.  I do process
improvement and Decision Support work at a hospital.  But Seaside still
escapes me because I am NOT a programmer, meaning I need to program to "get
things done," not to write a "great program," and so Aida was a great choice
for me because I could almost just sit down and get started, and Janko and
the Aida community are VERY willing to help when you have a question.  There
are very few things I have wanted to do that they haven't been able to
explain to me--usually within HOURS.

So...depending on what you are writing (I am working on basic business
data-collection applications), and depending on how you feel about the CSS
style guidelines, you can very quickly and read ably get many components up
and running, nicely pre-wired to your domain model object(s). I mention the
style guidelines only because the easiest way for me to layout forms in Aida
is using tables, which does not bother me for the applications I am writing,
but is apparently a big faux pas in the CSS world!

I would be happy to help any way I can; I have been given much by the Aida
community and have been lax in my duties to provide more promised
documentation on the Aida web site!  (There are so many interlocking pieces
of a good demonstration showing off the many parts of Aida that I get lost
in "Scope Creep.")  So...ask away, and I will answer as best I can!

Hope this is somewhat useful,

Rob

P.S.  I should really figure out this IRC thing someday as well...

On 5/10/08, Germán Arduino <gardu...@gmail.com> wrote:

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Le samedi 10 mai 2008 à 10:47 -0400, Rob Rothwell a écrit :

It's not only for Squeak, but for the next Aida release (6.0) in
general. So it will be available for Squeak, VW and Gemstone/S :)

Cheers!

Nico
--
Nicolas Petton
http://nico.bioskop.fr
            ___
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