When starting off what were you more interested in : Salary / Doing what you liked / Establishing yourself ?

[Mostofa]

Well ..

When you started off your career in IT what motivated you to choose a
company ?

Was it the salary or something else ?

I had some negative experience on this recently and would like to know
what others think .

regards,
Mostofa

[Bas Vodde]

The amount of learning I would get.

I (and a couple friends) turned down an offer from a large company and
picked a small company with people we though were really good. Salary
would be perhaps the last decision point for me. :)

Bas

> --
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Agile Bangladesh" group.
> To post to this group, send email to agi...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to agilebd+u...@googlegroups.com
> .
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/agilebd?hl=en
> .
>
>
>

[srayhan]

I too took job that offered the most opportunity to learn and the
people I would get to work with. In fact, I turned down an offer with
higher salary. I am glad that I did that, in hind sight.

[Raisul Kabir]

I started in IT from interest not for money. In 2000, IT wasn't as high paying like now.
In my 5 years of entrepreneur life, I remember merely 2-3 people who told they left for salary. Yet, in a lot of cases reason was the same. But "Organization and Management" courses tell that, Salary isn't the happiness factor, it's hygiene factor ie. people won't be happy for higher salary but would be unhappy with lower salary.

From my experience I have seen that, if a company meets the other factors, like honesty, behavior, culture etc. and market salary rate, most people won't bother looking for job. People won't leave company for small increment. However, if the amount is higher like two three times, people will go to work in uncertain places or even very bad places.

The major problem is, in Bangladesh, India and some other outsourcing countries, this market rate is insanely varying. When I started my career a good salary meant around one third to one fourth of current. Inflation is not as high as the IT salary market is giving. However, this is an unavoidable fact when some company can charge twice or thrice than other company to their clients.

Conclusion is, if salary is nearly similar, then most people (80% from my experience) will consider the other facts. But when the salary is very high compared to other place, most people will not consider other things. 10-15% people will consider leaving even for small raise and 5-10% will consider other things anyway however high the salary is. I am very fortunate to come across such 3 people among my current 35 member team. The reason of such big mail is, I have seen many people, specially entrepreneurs about being very upset of this salary issue but from the statistics I have seen it's not that bad as it looks.

Best regards.

Raisul


--------------------
Raisul Kabir, BrainStation-23
H-480, R-32, Mohakhali, New DOHS,
Dhaka, Bangladesh
cell: +8801713458492
email: rai...@brainstation-23.com rai...@gmail.com
skype: raisulk gtalk: rai...@brainstation-23.com

[nhm tanveer hossain khan (hasan)]

Nice post indeed! really loved the topic!. thanks for the post!

I liked riasul bhai's comment, it explains a lot.

in 2003 i kicked started my IT career doing part time web development
job in a company,
i did my secondary and higher secondary school in commerce faculty as
my dad wanted me to study further on commerce.
after completing my higher secondary school, i was suppose to choose
my business college to complete my under grad.
at that time i took the risk i invested myself. ate my own fear and
kicked myself to ignite.
though everything happened without my own concern (because i was
really loving the way it was moving on),
i started studying in IT college later i hated and dropped out. as i
was getting an impression
that i'm studying to let someone certify me. as i don't wanna be
certified by other as i will be certified by my own creation.

lastly, i told my dad "i'm not chasing your dream i'm chasing mine".
since then i felt like i am "working for fun".

money or financial improvement is byproduct. money was never my
motivational factor where it does for my parents
since they are not from IT background and they can't measure how i'm
progressing.

i guess this is very common challenge thus most of the people can't
control their temptation, so they move company for better salary or
financial benefit.

i again ditto raisul bhai's opinion, many people think money is the
factor but it's not exactly the reason to leave a company,
as long as company environment has enough fun and challenge to live
with.

i saw many talents want to settle early in the life and they dream the
same thing as zillions of the other people do on earth. (i.e.. getting
married, having kid, own apartment, car and bla bla)

i think this should be changed, guys should have more passion on
learning and patience for climbing up to the peak of the
intellectually hill.

guys!, just chase your own dream, just wake up be what you dreamed and
dared to be :)_) just have fun! be your own idol be the icon for
others.
money can buy so many stuffs, but it can't buy what you have dreamed
about.

we need more passionate coder (architect coder), passionate product
owner (who just love to interact with client and team to build the
better software), passionate scrum master (who just love to facilitate
people)

i think company needs to care about few responsibilities -

1. company should grow up

2. Be trustworthy, honest and earn your respect (as a company, brand,
manager whatever)

3. they should treat developers (programmer, tester, designer) as
human not machine

4. they should pay them the fair amount of salary so they don't have
to be concerned about it.

5. they should facilitate them placing themselves on their side.

6. they should build relation rather not employee and boss culture

7. they should help to create an environment where everyone (even the
newly joined one) can speak out loud enough to be heard.
so everyone knows where is the frustration hides.

8. they should help to create an environment where people never
backstab rather they speak face to face and help the colleagues to be
better human, better team member.

9. management should be the first team who demonstrates their
accountability then expect everyone to do the same.

best wishes,
btw, this is my birthday writeup :)_)

[Shaiful Islam]

Really remarkable post for both the Employee and Employer.

specially liked the points Hasan mentioned. i myself worked different organization both small and big and my concern always learning first and then finance. we cannot ignore salary but salary never all to work with.

If both Employee and Employer can do the best; definitely salary is not the issue to leave any organization.

Thanks & Regards

Md. Shaiful Islam
Manager, Software Testing
tekSymmetry, LLC
http://teksymmetry.com
Phone (BD) +8801716314667

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Agile Bangladesh" group.
To post to this group, send email to agi...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to agilebd+u...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/agilebd?hl=en.

--

[Kazi Mohammad Ekram]

Hi,

   Nice to see the post. And thanks to everyone for sharing there thoughts. I am also leaving my current
company because of learning, management and motivation problem. They are paying good but 

unfortunately there is no way to learn something from this company. I spent my 1 year without getting
anything.

   People here are not passionate. If they get good salaries even they are ready to work as data entry from a php expert.
It feels very bad. I tried lot to the phpxperts to learn something and make something new they said we dont need

to learn if we get good salary. Shame to here it.

   So I am going to join a newly startup company to start Agile and build my team only passionate
people to make a good team. Pray for me. And as I new in Agile Please give me some suggestions
for first kick off. thank you...:)

 

[Tim Abbott]

Guys,

Great question.  I wasn't as smart early on in my career and went with Salary for my first job when I worked at Nasa.  Other than the name, it was a horribly slow place to work and EXTREMELY process oriented to the point of extremely slow development cycles, boring work, and the only thing I learned was how to throw darts at a picture of Bill Gates I had in my office (we are all C++/Unix devs that hated Microsoft).  

Later on I realized two things:

1.  In order to get paid more, I had to know more, deliver more, and be easy to work with.  I therefore I had to learn how to learn on my own and with my own drive so I read, read, and kept reading.  a bit more.  

2.  It sucks to work for a terrible organization, no matter how much money you make.  

I think Hasan's post outlined well what kind of environment a company should provide its employees.  While I'm sure none of our companies are perfect, I think a lot of us on this list that are founders really respect that ethos and while we are learning and growing, we are trying to provide that type of environment.  

Kazi, I'm sad to here about your environment.  The thing that stuck out in what you said was the following:

"I tried lot to the phpxperts to learn something and make something new they said we dont need

to learn if we get good salary."

That is just HORRIBLE.  Tell them, we'll see them looking for a job when their skills become obsolete.  I wish you well in your new endeavor and hope it becomes successful.  

--

Best Regards,

Tim Abbott

Chief Architect

tekSymmetry Interactive

t...@teksymmetry.com

www.teksymmetry.com

KSA - (+966).548182186

USA - (+1).678.682.9864

Fax - (+1).877.482.9533

[Asif Atick]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Asif Atick <aat...@primetechbd.com>
Date: 2009/12/22
Subject: Re: When starting off what were you more interested in : Salary / Doing what you liked / Establishing yourself ?
To: agi...@googlegroups.com


Hi guys,

It was rally informative and many good points has came up through hasan bhai and Tims mail.

There are few points I would like to add after hasan bhais Points:

=> The company should maintain a practice that the developers can feel its their own premises their own work place.

=> The word "Team" starts from dependability. It does not omits the management nether the Devs . I would not prefer playing in a football team without Goal keeper. 

=> A learning environment should be defined where even the seniors can learn new things from the  new guy.

=> Please no qubicals as they can make you the last man on earth.(No man no where) 

B.wishes

Asif

2009/12/22 Tim Abbott <t...@teksymmetry.com>

--
Md. Asif Atick
Microsoft Certified Application Developer

--
Md. Asif Atick
Microsoft Certified Application Developer

[Foyzul Karim]

I think the process in a company is instantiated when our managerial persons turned obsolete respect to our industry.

As a newbie on software industry i think the matter which influences to run for a good salary is our society. I truly believe (and most of you must agree with me) if we can learn new things passionately, adopt ourselves with them quickly, money will come in future. But at first we need some time to get matured/experienced for that money. But we young people can't wait for that time because we think our friends will laugh at us and say, "oh..you are doing a 6K job? look..i am getting 15k in starting..".or our parents don't want to talk about the job of us since the salary amount is so small..[both of the points happened with me..lolz] sometimes it frustrates people [but not me in this time]. Some of my friends didn't start working on the company only for the salary was below 10k. But one thing is for sure, if the office environment is turned into a recreation ground, money won't be a factor anymore. But to make that, each of the employee have to get out of their EGO and start communicating with others freely and honestly.

Thank you.
Foyzul Karim
Assistant Trainer
BASIS
Bangladesh
Mobile: +8801911567771
          +8801730061516