I really want to enhance my skills as developer and I was wondering if
the anybody in this group knew of any particularly companies who want
developers who are motivated to constantly improve themselves, and who
provide particularly good environments for such improvements to take
place.
I'm learning more about OO theory, design patterns, TDD and Agile
practices but I work in an organisation which is very waterfall-
centric and aren't exactly supportive of my efforts. Whilst I am
trying to change the way we work I would relish the opportunity to
work along side, and to learn from, some developers who have already
walked the path that I am currently walking.
Currently I'm working in .NET, but that could all change. Any names
of any companies I might approach would be most appreciated.
Perhaps after certifying developers' agile skills we should look at
certifying companies?
I'm not in London, but the international firm that immediately comes to mind is ThoughtWorks. It'd be especially good for larger, more enterprisy work and they definitely do .net and C# engagements (as well as Java, JRuby and who knows what else). I'm sure there are a ton of fun, small Ruby shops in London that would be worth checking out as I really like the atmosphere at the small Ruby shops. I find many of them pair extensively, and TDD in Ruby is just a pleasure compared to many other languages due to the maturity of the testing frameworks (I always miss the cucumber, capybara, rspec, factory_girl, fakeweb, vcr stack when coding in other languages).
I'm pretty sure there's some kind of "Agile Tuesday" group that meets up on Tuesdays. I'd find them, turn up and ask around. I'd also suggest XP day but I have a feeling that might have been in December.
Bear in mind this is FWIW from someone living in NYC who goes over to London once or twice a year for a day or two to present at conferences. So you may get better advice from someone else.
> I really want to enhance my skills as developer and I was wondering if > the anybody in this group knew of any particularly companies who want > developers who are motivated to constantly improve themselves, and who > provide particularly good environments for such improvements to take > place.
> I'm learning more about OO theory, design patterns, TDD and Agile > practices but I work in an organisation which is very waterfall- > centric and aren't exactly supportive of my efforts. Whilst I am > trying to change the way we work I would relish the opportunity to > work along side, and to learn from, some developers who have already > walked the path that I am currently walking.
> Currently I'm working in .NET, but that could all change. Any names > of any companies I might approach would be most appreciated.
> Perhaps after certifying developers' agile skills we should look at > certifying companies?
> Much of the discussion in the group is predicated on several resources summarized on the wiki at http://www.agileskillsproject.org Please review this regularly. To request editing permissions for the wiki, send an email to either of these gmail addresses: richardjfoster or redhotglass .
> ________________________________________________________________ > You received this message because you are subscribed to > the "Agile Developer Skills" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > agile-developer-skills+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> I'm not in London, but the international firm that immediately comes to mind is ThoughtWorks. It'd be especially good for larger, more enterprisy work and they definitely do .net and C# engagements (as well as Java, JRuby and who knows what else). I'm sure there are a ton of fun, small Ruby shops in London that would be worth checking out as I really like the atmosphere at the small Ruby shops. I find many of them pair extensively, and TDD in Ruby is just a pleasure compared to many other languages due to the maturity of the testing frameworks (I always miss the cucumber, capybara, rspec, factory_girl, fakeweb, vcr stack when coding in other languages).
> I'm pretty sure there's some kind of "Agile Tuesday" group that meets up on Tuesdays. I'd find them, turn up and ask around. I'd also suggest XP day but I have a feeling that might have been in December.
> Bear in mind this is FWIW from someone living in NYC who goes over to London once or twice a year for a day or two to present at conferences. So you may get better advice from someone else.
> Best Wishes, > Peter
> On Feb 13, 2011, at 12:16 PM, Douglas wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> I really want to enhance my skills as developer and I was wondering if >> the anybody in this group knew of any particularly companies who want >> developers who are motivated to constantly improve themselves, and who >> provide particularly good environments for such improvements to take >> place.
>> I'm learning more about OO theory, design patterns, TDD and Agile >> practices but I work in an organisation which is very waterfall- >> centric and aren't exactly supportive of my efforts. Whilst I am >> trying to change the way we work I would relish the opportunity to >> work along side, and to learn from, some developers who have already >> walked the path that I am currently walking.
>> Currently I'm working in .NET, but that could all change. Any names >> of any companies I might approach would be most appreciated.
>> Perhaps after certifying developers' agile skills we should look at >> certifying companies?
>> Much of the discussion in the group is predicated on several resources summarized on the wiki at http://www.agileskillsproject.org Please review this regularly. To request editing permissions for the wiki, send an email to either of these gmail addresses: richardjfoster or redhotglass .
>> ________________________________________________________________ >> You received this message because you are subscribed to >> the "Agile Developer Skills" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> agile-developer-skills+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> Much of the discussion in the group is predicated on several resources summarized on the wiki at http://www.agileskillsproject.org Please review this regularly. To request editing permissions for the wiki, send an email to either of these gmail addresses: richardjfoster or redhotglass .
> ________________________________________________________________ > You received this message because you are subscribed to > the "Agile Developer Skills" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > agile-developer-skills+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> I'm not in London, but the international firm that immediately comes to mind is ThoughtWorks. It'd be especially good for larger, more enterprisy work and they definitely do .net and C# engagements (as well as Java, JRuby and who knows what else). I'm sure there are a ton of fun, small Ruby shops in London that would be worth checking out as I really like the atmosphere at the small Ruby shops. I find many of them pair extensively, and TDD in Ruby is just a pleasure compared to many other languages due to the maturity of the testing frameworks (I always miss the cucumber, capybara, rspec, factory_girl, fakeweb, vcr stack when coding in other languages).
>> I'm pretty sure there's some kind of "Agile Tuesday" group that meets up on Tuesdays. I'd find them, turn up and ask around. I'd also suggest XP day but I have a feeling that might have been in December.
>> Bear in mind this is FWIW from someone living in NYC who goes over to London once or twice a year for a day or two to present at conferences. So you may get better advice from someone else.
>> Best Wishes, >> Peter
>> On Feb 13, 2011, at 12:16 PM, Douglas wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>> I really want to enhance my skills as developer and I was wondering if >>> the anybody in this group knew of any particularly companies who want >>> developers who are motivated to constantly improve themselves, and who >>> provide particularly good environments for such improvements to take >>> place.
>>> I'm learning more about OO theory, design patterns, TDD and Agile >>> practices but I work in an organisation which is very waterfall- >>> centric and aren't exactly supportive of my efforts. Whilst I am >>> trying to change the way we work I would relish the opportunity to >>> work along side, and to learn from, some developers who have already >>> walked the path that I am currently walking.
>>> Currently I'm working in .NET, but that could all change. Any names >>> of any companies I might approach would be most appreciated.
>>> Perhaps after certifying developers' agile skills we should look at >>> certifying companies?
>>> Much of the discussion in the group is predicated on several resources summarized on the wiki at http://www.agileskillsproject.org Please review this regularly. To request editing permissions for the wiki, send an email to either of these gmail addresses: richardjfoster or redhotglass .
>>> ________________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to >>> the "Agile Developer Skills" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> agile-developer-skills+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> Much of the discussion in the group is predicated on several resources summarized on the wiki at http://www.agileskillsproject.org Please review this regularly. To request editing permissions for the wiki, send an email to either of these gmail addresses: richardjfoster or redhotglass .
>> ________________________________________________________________ >> You received this message because you are subscribed to >> the "Agile Developer Skills" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> agile-developer-skills+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> Much of the discussion in the group is predicated on several resources summarized on the wiki at http://www.agileskillsproject.org Please review this regularly. To request editing permissions for the wiki, send an email to either of these gmail addresses: richardjfoster or redhotglass .
> ________________________________________________________________ > You received this message because you are subscribed to > the "Agile Developer Skills" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > agile-developer-skills+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
Also keep an eye on Skills Matter's free events - they often have technical sessions, and everyone goes down the pub afterwards. http://skillsmatter.com/
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 8:13 PM, Diana Larsen <dianalar...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Douglas, > For info on eXtreme Tuesday Club (the longest running Agile user group that > I know of anywhere) check out: > http://xpday-london.editme.com/eXtremeTuesdayClub
> Peter's advice is right on when he suggests that XTC is a good place to > find the kinds of opportunities you're looking for.
> > I'm not in London, but the international firm that immediately comes to > mind is ThoughtWorks. It'd be especially good for larger, more enterprisy > work and they definitely do .net and C# engagements (as well as Java, JRuby > and who knows what else). I'm sure there are a ton of fun, small Ruby shops > in London that would be worth checking out as I really like the atmosphere > at the small Ruby shops. I find many of them pair extensively, and TDD in > Ruby is just a pleasure compared to many other languages due to the maturity > of the testing frameworks (I always miss the cucumber, capybara, rspec, > factory_girl, fakeweb, vcr stack when coding in other languages).
> > I'm pretty sure there's some kind of "Agile Tuesday" group that meets up > on Tuesdays. I'd find them, turn up and ask around. I'd also suggest XP day > but I have a feeling that might have been in December.
> > Bear in mind this is FWIW from someone living in NYC who goes over to > London once or twice a year for a day or two to present at conferences. So > you may get better advice from someone else.
> > Best Wishes, > > Peter
> > On Feb 13, 2011, at 12:16 PM, Douglas wrote:
> >> Hi All,
> >> I really want to enhance my skills as developer and I was wondering if > >> the anybody in this group knew of any particularly companies who want > >> developers who are motivated to constantly improve themselves, and who > >> provide particularly good environments for such improvements to take > >> place.
> >> I'm learning more about OO theory, design patterns, TDD and Agile > >> practices but I work in an organisation which is very waterfall- > >> centric and aren't exactly supportive of my efforts. Whilst I am > >> trying to change the way we work I would relish the opportunity to > >> work along side, and to learn from, some developers who have already > >> walked the path that I am currently walking.
> >> Currently I'm working in .NET, but that could all change. Any names > >> of any companies I might approach would be most appreciated.
> >> Perhaps after certifying developers' agile skills we should look at > >> certifying companies?
> >> Much of the discussion in the group is predicated on several resources > summarized on the wiki at http://www.agileskillsproject.org Please > review this regularly. To request editing permissions for the wiki, send an > email to either of these gmail addresses: richardjfoster or redhotglass .
> >> ________________________________________________________________ > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to > >> the "Agile Developer Skills" group.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> agile-developer-skills+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> > Much of the discussion in the group is predicated on several resources > summarized on the wiki at http://www.agileskillsproject.org Please > review this regularly. To request editing permissions for the wiki, send an > email to either of these gmail addresses: richardjfoster or redhotglass .
> > ________________________________________________________________ > > You received this message because you are subscribed to > > the "Agile Developer Skills" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > agile-developer-skills+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> Much of the discussion in the group is predicated on several resources > summarized on the wiki at http://www.agileskillsproject.org Please > review this regularly. To request editing permissions for the wiki, send an > email to either of these gmail addresses: richardjfoster or redhotglass .
> ________________________________________________________________ > You received this message because you are subscribed to > the "Agile Developer Skills" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > agile-developer-skills+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
As far as companies I've heard about go, ThoughtWorks are top of my
list. Six months ago I applied but I didn't get past the code test,
although they did suggest I apply again when I had a bit more
experience. Perhaps that time is now.
Ideally I'd like to find a company which could take me from my current
level to the level employable by ThoughtWorks. Perhaps I'll just have
to get there on my own.
I have actually been going to xTC, although I feel a little bit out of
my depth. I haven't asked too many of the other attendees whether the
companies they work for are hiring, but I will tomorrow!
Thanks again. I'll keep looking.
Douglas.
On Feb 14, 8:29 am, Elizabeth Keogh <l...@lunivore.com> wrote:
> Also keep an eye on Skills Matter's free events - they often have technical
> sessions, and everyone goes down the pub afterwards.http://skillsmatter.com/
> On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 8:13 PM, Diana Larsen <dianalar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Douglas,
> > For info on eXtreme Tuesday Club (the longest running Agile user group that
> > I know of anywhere) check out:
> >http://xpday-london.editme.com/eXtremeTuesdayClub
> > Peter's advice is right on when he suggests that XTC is a good place to
> > find the kinds of opportunities you're looking for.
> > On Feb 13, 2011, at 11:43 AM, Peter Bell wrote:
> > > I'm not in London, but the international firm that immediately comes to
> > mind is ThoughtWorks. It'd be especially good for larger, more enterprisy
> > work and they definitely do .net and C# engagements (as well as Java, JRuby
> > and who knows what else). I'm sure there are a ton of fun, small Ruby shops
> > in London that would be worth checking out as I really like the atmosphere
> > at the small Ruby shops. I find many of them pair extensively, and TDD in
> > Ruby is just a pleasure compared to many other languages due to the maturity
> > of the testing frameworks (I always miss the cucumber, capybara, rspec,
> > factory_girl, fakeweb, vcr stack when coding in other languages).
> > > I'm pretty sure there's some kind of "Agile Tuesday" group that meets up
> > on Tuesdays. I'd find them, turn up and ask around. I'd also suggest XP day
> > but I have a feeling that might have been in December.
> > > Bear in mind this is FWIW from someone living in NYC who goes over to
> > London once or twice a year for a day or two to present at conferences. So
> > you may get better advice from someone else.
> > > Best Wishes,
> > > Peter
> > > On Feb 13, 2011, at 12:16 PM, Douglas wrote:
> > >> Hi All,
> > >> I really want to enhance my skills as developer and I was wondering if
> > >> the anybody in this group knew of any particularly companies who want
> > >> developers who are motivated to constantly improve themselves, and who
> > >> provide particularly good environments for such improvements to take
> > >> place.
> > >> I'm learning more about OO theory, design patterns, TDD and Agile
> > >> practices but I work in an organisation which is very waterfall-
> > >> centric and aren't exactly supportive of my efforts. Whilst I am
> > >> trying to change the way we work I would relish the opportunity to
> > >> work along side, and to learn from, some developers who have already
> > >> walked the path that I am currently walking.
> > >> Currently I'm working in .NET, but that could all change. Any names
> > >> of any companies I might approach would be most appreciated.
> > >> Perhaps after certifying developers' agile skills we should look at
> > >> certifying companies?
> > >> Much of the discussion in the group is predicated on several resources
> > summarized on the wiki athttp://www.agileskillsproject.org Please
> > review this regularly. To request editing permissions for the wiki, send an
> > email to either of these gmail addresses: richardjfoster or redhotglass .
> > >> ________________________________________________________________
> > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to
> > >> the "Agile Developer Skills" group.
> > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > >> agile-developer-skills+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> > > Much of the discussion in the group is predicated on several resources
> > summarized on the wiki athttp://www.agileskillsproject.org Please
> > review this regularly. To request editing permissions for the wiki, send an
> > email to either of these gmail addresses: richardjfoster or redhotglass .
> > > ________________________________________________________________
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to
> > > the "Agile Developer Skills" group.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > agile-developer-skills+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> > Much of the discussion in the group is predicated on several resources
> > summarized on the wiki athttp://www.agileskillsproject.org Please
> > review this regularly. To request editing permissions for the wiki, send an
> > email to either of these gmail addresses: richardjfoster or redhotglass .
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to
> > the "Agile Developer Skills" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > agile-developer-skills+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
just saw this so probably too late but I would like to recommend BSkyB as a very good (agile) company. Some departments are more agile than others but as company, I love it.
They have various recruitment programs, including graduate ones.
> just saw this so probably too late but I would like to recommend BSkyB as a very good (agile) company. Some departments are more agile than others but as company, I love it.
> They have various recruitment programs, including graduate ones.
> Much of the discussion in the group is predicated on several resources summarized on the wiki at http://www.agileskillsproject.org Please review this regularly. To request editing permissions for the wiki, send an email to either of these gmail addresses: richardjfoster or redhotglass .
> ________________________________________________________________ > You received this message because you are subscribed to > the "Agile Developer Skills" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > agile-developer-skills+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Michael James <m...@collab.net> wrote: > This is good to hear.
> What if everyone voted with their feet for Agile employers, and simply > declined to participate in anti-Agile practices? Bad companies deserve to > die.
> just saw this so probably too late but I would like to recommend BSkyB as a > very good (agile) company. Some departments are more agile than others but > as company, I love it.
> They have various recruitment programs, including graduate ones.
> Much of the discussion in the group is predicated on several resources > summarized on the wiki at http://www.agileskillsproject.org Please review > this regularly. To request editing permissions for the wiki, send an email > to either of these gmail addresses: richardjfoster or redhotglass .
> ________________________________________________________________ > You received this message because you are subscribed to > the "Agile Developer Skills" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > agile-developer-skills+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> Much of the discussion in the group is predicated on several resources > summarized on the wiki at http://www.agileskillsproject.org Please review > this regularly. To request editing permissions for the wiki, send an email > to either of these gmail addresses: richardjfoster or redhotglass .
> ________________________________________________________________ > You received this message because you are subscribed to > the "Agile Developer Skills" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > agile-developer-skills+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> What if everyone voted with their feet for Agile employers, and simply > declined to participate in anti-Agile practices? Bad companies deserve > to die.
Currently that seems to lead to higher competition for jobs among the capable Agile developers and slightly lowered competition for the others. It's not enough to make the companies sit up and take notice, but it is enough to make it hard on developers who /really/ want to work in a place that "gets" Agile.
That's why the "bad companies" won't just die off, and we'll continue to have to educate people and help them become "good companies."
its very hard to do that. My last company was waterfall and the WHOLE company would have to change. Not just the devs (who had no power) but the management, accountants (who LOVE waterfall btw) and everyone.
Its easier to leave the company and find one who already 'gets' it.
Rakesh
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 10:43 PM, George Dinwiddie <li...@idiacomputing.com>wrote:
>> What if everyone voted with their feet for Agile employers, and simply >> declined to participate in anti-Agile practices? Bad companies deserve >> to die.
> Currently that seems to lead to higher competition for jobs among the > capable Agile developers and slightly lowered competition for the others. > It's not enough to make the companies sit up and take notice, but it is > enough to make it hard on developers who /really/ want to work in a place > that "gets" Agile.
> That's why the "bad companies" won't just die off, and we'll continue to > have to educate people and help them become "good companies."
> Much of the discussion in the group is predicated on several resources > summarized on the wiki at http://www.agileskillsproject.org Please > review this regularly. To request editing permissions for the wiki, send an > email to either of these gmail addresses: richardjfoster or redhotglass .
> ________________________________________________________________ > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "Agile > Developer Skills" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > agile-developer-skills+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
Thanks for your suggestion. I continue to hear good things about BSkyB, but as far as I know they're a Java/Groovy shop at the moment.
George,
Interesting to see this thread get picked up again.
It's interesting what you say about how competitive the job market for agile companies seems to be. That's certainly been my experience here in London. I suppose this might be a reason why the salaries for jobs working in agile vs traditional companies doesn't seem to be very different, even though the agile companies (if the agilists are correct) should have a better business model and, therefore, be more profitable (or at least sustainable). I'm still looking so if any body knows of a good .NET development house (I promise I'll learn Ruby one day - one day soon) in London who are hiring I'd be keen to hear from them!
Although increasing competition for jobs would seem to be (another) great reason to go agile. Some companies find it difficult to find and attract top development talent, so if you can really put a company in the position where numbers of really good developers are queuing up to join, then that is a huge advantage in itself.
Douglas.
On 11 June 2011 23:10, rakesh mailgroups <rakesh.mailgro...@gmail.com>wrote:
> its very hard to do that. My last company was waterfall and the WHOLE > company would have to change. Not just the devs (who had no power) but the > management, accountants (who LOVE waterfall btw) and everyone.
> Its easier to leave the company and find one who already 'gets' it.
> Rakesh
> On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 10:43 PM, George Dinwiddie < > li...@idiacomputing.com> wrote:
>> Michael,
>> On 6/11/11 4:25 PM, Michael James wrote:
>>> This is good to hear.
>>> What if everyone voted with their feet for Agile employers, and simply >>> declined to participate in anti-Agile practices? Bad companies deserve >>> to die.
>> Currently that seems to lead to higher competition for jobs among the >> capable Agile developers and slightly lowered competition for the others. >> It's not enough to make the companies sit up and take notice, but it is >> enough to make it hard on developers who /really/ want to work in a place >> that "gets" Agile.
>> That's why the "bad companies" won't just die off, and we'll continue to >> have to educate people and help them become "good companies."
>> Much of the discussion in the group is predicated on several resources >> summarized on the wiki at http://www.agileskillsproject.org Please >> review this regularly. To request editing permissions for the wiki, send an >> email to either of these gmail addresses: richardjfoster or redhotglass .
>> ________________________________________________________________ >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "Agile >> Developer Skills" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> agile-developer-skills+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> Much of the discussion in the group is predicated on several resources > summarized on the wiki at http://www.agileskillsproject.org Please review > this regularly. To request editing permissions for the wiki, send an email > to either of these gmail addresses: richardjfoster or redhotglass .
> ________________________________________________________________ > You received this message because you are subscribed to > the "Agile Developer Skills" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > agile-developer-skills+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
