I'm giving myself until June 1 to increase the perceived value of this project, measured by increasing community involvement (traffic on the wiki or this list), or I'm pulling out.
There are 3 ways to be part of this project:Passive: read (at least some) of the notes here and on the wiki
Active: read and comment, talk about this with your colleagues, participate in quests
Creative: compose new text, and submit it for comment
Don't feel too bad. As a veteran of all kinds of "we must fix this!" efforts, I know that the failure rate is high, and that failure doesn't reflect on the ambitious person. (That is: I've failed at a zillion things, succeeded at a few - yet I am the same person. So there must be more to it than just my virtues or failings.)
-----
Brian Marick, independent consultant
Mostly on agile methods with a testing slant
Author of /Programming Cocoa with Ruby/
www.exampler.com, www.exampler.com/blog, www.twitter.com/marick
Don't feel too bad. As a veteran of all kinds of "we must fix this!" efforts, I know that the failure rate is high, and that failure doesn't reflect on the ambitious person.
> As you know, I've poured my heart into this project because I wanted an
> alternative to certification. Recently I was talking to another
> practitioner, asking what he does to stay current--and his response was that
> he'd recently gotten certified as a CSM. Does he read any books on the
> subject? No. Attend any user groups? No. Yet he thinks this shows
> his commitment to lifelong learning.
Oh well. Different people have different situations, different needs,
different ways of learning, and end up finding different ways to met
whatever needs they may have.
A CSM might be a necessary first step towards demonstrating to the
decision makers where he works that he has something to say that is
worth listening to, or may be deserving of some responsibility.
Employers don't care about what books you read, or what user groups
you go to, and to be honest if all you are doing is plumbing some .net
libraries together or implementing some specifications that have been
thrown over the wall then you will just end up more frustrated than
anything as a more engaged developer.
> You, my loyal readers, are not the folk who think they're going to "stay
> current" by taking just one class. You don't really even need help staying
> current--you're already a part of the community, finding out what is new by
> joining list serves and going to face-to-face events. However, many people
> don't participate in the community because it's easier to just pay for a
> course and add it to their resume. I think we can offer something of value
> for resumes, while still sustaining our community--but apparently the Agile
> Skills Project is not the way to do that.
I think the ASP wiki is a good central place for people to find
information that is available elsewhere on the web. I don't think it
is an effective alternative to certification.
> I'm going passive. I still care about this project, but need to try
> something else.
> So, I'm breaking out from being a "first follower" for ADS. I'm creating
> the Agile Welcoming Circle, whose purpose is to provide a "Certificate of
> Completion" to newcomers as soon as a moderator can verify that they've
> started participating in the face-to-face or online community. This circle
> would provide select services to members for $100/€100 per year, and would
> have a mixed paid/volunteer staff (starting with me). I don't think anyone
> will make full-time wages out of this project, but it will help me devote
> more time to the initiative, and allow newcomers to have a cheap alternative
> to certification schemes, and maybe even start feeding sponsor money into
> free, local conferences. If you'd like to talk more about this idea, please
> join agile-welcoming-...@googlegroups.com
Sounds interesting. You don't see this as an evil certification?
Curiosity has inspired me to join the mailing list.
--
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OK, the world is not (yet) beating a path to your door. That happens.
is this a community to help beginners learn... or a community for experts to discuss how to help
beginners learn
I was pretty surprised by your statement.... judging by the number of emails on this list, I thought you had an active group with a sustainable pace.
Hi all--
This is a hard note for me to write, but I want to be clear on what I'm thinking and doing, so here it is:
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 2:06 PM, D.Andr� Dhondt�<d.andre...@gmail.com>�wrote:I'm giving myself until June 1 to increase the perceived value of this project, measured by increasing community involvement (traffic on the wiki or this list), or I'm pulling out.
Throughout May, our numbers went from around 1,000 new visitors a week to 300. �The fire is dwindling here, and I don't think I'm the right person to stoke the coals. �I took advantage of XP 2010 to talk about the project, to ask people what they think it should be doing, where it should be going, etc., etc., and we came to a consensus that the project isn't helping practitioners learn. �I don't know how to fix this--maybe you can. �Please do.
As you know, I've poured my heart into this project because I wanted an alternative to certification. �Recently I was talking to another practitioner, asking what he does to stay current--and his response was that he'd recently gotten certified as a CSM. �Does he read any books on the subject? �No. �Attend any user groups? No. Yet he thinks this shows his�commitment�to lifelong learning.
You, my loyal readers, are not the folk who think they're going to "stay current" by taking just one class. �You don't really even need help staying current--you're already a part of the community, finding out what is new by joining list serves and going to face-to-face events. �However, many people don't participate in the community because it's easier to just pay for a course and add it to their resume. �I think we can offer something of value for resumes, while still sustaining�our community--but apparently the Agile Skills Project is not the way to do that.
All this is to say that I think I've got the wrong audience for what I want to do next... to provide an alternative introduction for newcomers to the Agile community.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 3:07 PM, D.Andr� Dhondt�<d.andre...@gmail.com>�wrote:
There are 3 ways to be part of this project:
Passive: read (at least some) of the notes here and on the wiki
Active: read and comment, talk about this with your colleagues, participate in quests
Creative: compose new text, and submit it for comment
I'm going passive. �I still care about this project, but need to try something else.
So, I'm breaking out from being a "first follower" for ADS. �I'm creating the�Agile Welcoming Circle, whose purpose is to provide a "Certificate of Completion" to newcomers as soon as a moderator can verify that they've started participating in the face-to-face or online community. �This circle would provide select services to members for $100/�100 per year, and would have a mixed paid/volunteer staff (starting with me). �I don't think anyone will make full-time wages out of this project, but it will help me devote more time to the initiative, and allow newcomers to have a cheap alternative to certification schemes, and maybe even start feeding sponsor money into free, local conferences. �If you'd like to talk more about this idea, please join�agile-welcoming-...@googlegroups.com
--
D. Andr� Dhondt
mobile: 011 33 671 034 984
twitter: adhondt � http://dhondtsayitsagile.blogspot.com/
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�
Much of the discussion in the group is predicated on several resources summarized on the wiki at http://www.agileskillsproject.org Please review this regularly. To request editing permissions for the wiki, send an email to either of these gmail addresses: d.andre.dhondt or redhotglass .
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I don't think you've failed at all. I /do/ think you chose an
impossible goal, and I'm amazed at the progress made toward it under
your leadership. The catalog of skills is an amazing thing, and I
thought /that/ was too big and too hard to approach.
I don't think that catalog can do much, by itself, to replace
certification programs. It can provide a measure of what areas a
certification program covers. And it will likely be useful as signposts
in your new endeavor.
You're doing well. Feel good about your accomplishments.
- George
> <mailto:agile-welcoming-...@googlegroups.com>
>
> --
> D. André Dhondt
> mobile: 011 33 671 034 984
> twitter: adhondt http://dhondtsayitsagile.blogspot.com/
>
> Support low-cost conferences -- http://AgileTour.org/
> If you're in the area, join Agile Philly http://www.AgilePhilly.com
>
> --
> ________________________________________________________________
>
> Much of the discussion in the group is predicated on several resources
> summarized on the wiki at http://www.agileskillsproject.org Please
> review this regularly. To request editing permissions for the wiki, send
> an email to either of these gmail addresses: d.andre.dhondt or redhotglass .
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> You received this message because you are subscribed to
> the "Agile Developer Skills" group.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>
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--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
* George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sorry to hear that you've decided to pull away from ADS, and I
can see why you might do that. As I expressed to you privately, I
believe that we should do the things that appeal to us, where we
have the passion to dig in, not the things that we "should" do. So
good luck in whatever you try next, and thanks for your efforts
here. I hope that the project can continue and I'll address that
separately.
Again, thanks!
Ron Jeffries
www.XProgramming.com
www.xprogramming.com/blog
Learn the principle, abide by the principle, and dissolve the principle.
-- Bruce Lee
> Don't feel too bad. As a veteran of all kinds of "we must fix
> this!" efforts, I know that the failure rate is high, and that
> failure doesn't reflect on the ambitious person. (That is: I've
> failed at a zillion things, succeeded at a few - yet I am the same
> person. So there must be more to it than just my virtues or failings.)
I'm not even sure it is failure. The group is large. We don't know
what will happen. If it goes forward from here, Andre will deserve a
big chunk of the credit. Even if it doesn't, the minds of a lot of
people have been opened a little bit.
You can't swallow the ocean. That's not failure, it's just the way
the world is. Ocean big, person small.
Ron Jeffries
www.XProgramming.com
www.xprogramming.com/blog
If you're not throwing some gravel once in a while,
you're not using the whole road.
Ditto.
I have seen things and met people that I would have missed otherwise.
Thank you for that :-)
ASP was (is) an important milestone in my 'enlightment'.
--
- Agile Poodle
- http://www.jussimononen.info/
- http://www.twitter.com/agilepoodle
> I have seen things and met people that I would have missed otherwise.
> Thank you for that :-)
> ASP was (is) an important milestone in my 'enlightment'.
As far as I know, none of us are dead ...
Ron Jeffries
www.XProgramming.com
www.xprogramming.com/blog
Inigo Montoya: You are wonderful!
Man in Black: Thank you. I have worked hard to become so.
> I also think that failure does reflect on the person--but not in the way you
> suggest. We're not being ambitious if we don't fail often. We're not
> learning if we don't actively seek out the real options, which implies we're
> pushing our limits, and failing often. I'd even argue that highly
> successful people simply fail early and fail often.
Failure doesn't reflect on the person. The wise person reflects on
failure.
True. I hope that ASP gets revved up now that we are facing substantial
change in the leading forces.