I have been an Adventist teacher for 15 years. I have had children for
9 of those years. When my wife and I got married we had made the
decision to homeschool our children. For the last 3 years, especially
this year, several people have become very "concerned" of how our
homeschooling reflects on the school I teach at. I had put out some
resumes 3 years ago and recieved calls and requests for interviews
from 9 different schools. After recieving the invites and before I
accepted the interview I let them know that we have chosen to
homeschool our children. All 9 of those schools responded that I could
not work at the school unless my children were there.
I just had a discussion with a school board member tonight. Because
our school is struggling, there are many that feel that I should put
my kids in, or leave. I responded by saying that it looks like I will
have to teach at a public school in order to homeschool my children
without harassment.
I am a first generation adventist and very discouraged from what I am
experiencing here.
Wow, that just isn't right at all. I also homeschool my kids and have had pressure to put my kids in our small Adventist school. I once knew a Pastor who pastored the Church where the school is at. He had 2 children and his wife homeschooled. They told him he needed to put his kids in the school, same situation as yours. He ended up leaving and is pastoring in another state and still homeschooling as far as I know. I'm sorry you are going through this. I will pray everything works out for you.
> I have been an Adventist teacher for 15 years. I have had children for > 9 of those years. When my wife and I got married we had made the > decision to homeschool our children. For the last 3 years, especially > this year, several people have become very "concerned" of how our > homeschooling reflects on the school I teach at. I had put out some > resumes 3 years ago and recieved calls and requests for interviews > from 9 different schools. After recieving the invites and before I > accepted the interview I let them know that we have chosen to > homeschool our children. All 9 of those schools responded that I could > not work at the school unless my children were there.
> I just had a discussion with a school board member tonight. Because > our school is struggling, there are many that feel that I should put > my kids in, or leave. I responded by saying that it looks like I will > have to teach at a public school in order to homeschool my children > without harassment.
> I am a first generation adventist and very discouraged from what I am > experiencing here.
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group "Adventist Education Forum." > To post to this group, send email to AdventistEdForum@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to AdventistEdForum-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/AdventistEdForum
> Remember ~ EdForum is for discussion of topics directly related to Adventist Education. Please do not send advertising, off topic, or personal messages. Thanks for being a part of the Adventist Education Forum!
Take courage. Scripture tells us that Mary homeschooled Christ. His knowledge of scripture at age 12 confounded the "church Scool teachers" of His day. I encourage you to take this up with your superintendent; this is another source of wisdom and guidance. Where I taught at an academy, we chose not to put our child in the local church school. Discussing our concerns and motivations for that choice with our superintendent greatly smoothed things over. His guidance was helpful and encouraging. If there are other homeschoolers in the area, you may be able to create an umbrella group through the church school, which might alleviate some of the pressure.
God Bless you and keep you in this hour of struggle.
On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 9:56:04 PM UTC-5, SDA Educator wrote:
> I have been an Adventist teacher for 15 years. I have had children for > 9 of those years. When my wife and I got married we had made the > decision to homeschool our children. For the last 3 years, especially > this year, several people have become very "concerned" of how our > homeschooling reflects on the school I teach at. I had put out some > resumes 3 years ago and recieved calls and requests for interviews > from 9 different schools. After recieving the invites and before I > accepted the interview I let them know that we have chosen to > homeschool our children. All 9 of those schools responded that I could > not work at the school unless my children were there.
> I just had a discussion with a school board member tonight. Because > our school is struggling, there are many that feel that I should put > my kids in, or leave. I responded by saying that it looks like I will > have to teach at a public school in order to homeschool my children > without harassment.
> I am a first generation adventist and very discouraged from what I am > experiencing here.
You should not be depressed. You made a choice. Of course, there are sometimes consequences to our choices. One should NOT expect to be paid to teach church school when you do not support the church school with your kids. I taught my kids all the way through academy but did have a problem when the pastor did not choose church school. I applaud your choice but live understanding the implications of that choice. I do not throw stones at your choice but would not hire you until you decide to support the school with your kids.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 5, 2012, at 10:53 AM, Benjamin Thompson <benjamin.j...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Take courage. Scripture tells us that Mary homeschooled Christ. His knowledge of scripture at age 12 confounded the "church Scool teachers" of His day. I encourage you to take this up with your superintendent; this is another source of wisdom and guidance. Where I taught at an academy, we chose not to put our child in the local church school. Discussing our concerns and motivations for that choice with our superintendent greatly smoothed things over. His guidance was helpful and encouraging. > If there are other homeschoolers in the area, you may be able to create an umbrella group through the church school, which might alleviate some of the pressure.
> God Bless you and keep you in this hour of struggle.
> On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 9:56:04 PM UTC-5, SDA Educator wrote: > I have been an Adventist teacher for 15 years. I have had children for > 9 of those years. When my wife and I got married we had made the > decision to homeschool our children. For the last 3 years, especially > this year, several people have become very "concerned" of how our > homeschooling reflects on the school I teach at. I had put out some > resumes 3 years ago and recieved calls and requests for interviews > from 9 different schools. After recieving the invites and before I > accepted the interview I let them know that we have chosen to > homeschool our children. All 9 of those schools responded that I could > not work at the school unless my children were there.
> I just had a discussion with a school board member tonight. Because > our school is struggling, there are many that feel that I should put > my kids in, or leave. I responded by saying that it looks like I will > have to teach at a public school in order to homeschool my children > without harassment.
> I am a first generation adventist and very discouraged from what I am > experiencing here. > -- > Visit our home page: http://edforum.adventist.org
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group "Adventist Education Forum." > To post to this group, send email to AdventistEdForum@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to AdventistEdForum-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/AdventistEdForum
> Remember ~ EdForum is for discussion of topics directly related to Adventist Education. Please do not send advertising, off topic, or personal messages. Thanks for being a part of the Adventist Education Forum!
Dear friends, I am surprised that school management has the audacity to compell you to have your children in the very school where you teach, against your will. I am also an Adventist teacher and church member but we don't go through such unfortunate incidences in Kenya where I teach. Here, you will only forgo the so-called education assistance if your child is not in an Adventist institution. They can learn in any school on planet Earth , even at home as long as you don't bother management with school fees issues. I think rationality is prudent. Sorry brother, but there are some issues that make denominational service so challenging, and, I dare say, unattractive. We too have our challenges, some of which give us sleepless nights but that is ,perhaps, the cost of disciplieship, or is it? Tom Olang' Nairobi, kenya
--- On Thu, 4/5/12, mbaggenst...@kc.rr.com <mbaggenst...@kc.rr.com> wrote:
From: mbaggenst...@kc.rr.com <mbaggenst...@kc.rr.com> Subject: Re: [EdForum] Limited by Homeschooling To: adventistedforum@googlegroups.com Cc: "SDA Educator" <sdaeduca...@gmail.com> Date: Thursday, April 5, 2012, 6:18 AM
Wow, that just isn't right at all. I also homeschool my kids and have had pressure to put my kids in our small Adventist school. I once knew a Pastor who pastored the Church where the school is at. He had 2 children and his wife homeschooled. They told him he needed to put his kids in the school, same situation as yours. He ended up leaving and is pastoring in another state and still homeschooling as far as I know. I'm sorry you are going through this. I will pray everything works out for you.
> I have been an Adventist teacher for 15 years. I have had children for > 9 of those years. When my wife and I got married we had made the > decision to homeschool our children. For the last 3 years, especially > this year, several people have become very "concerned" of how our > homeschooling reflects on the school I teach at. I had put out some > resumes 3 years ago and recieved calls and requests for interviews > from 9 different schools. After recieving the invites and before I > accepted the interview I let them know that we have chosen to > homeschool our children. All 9 of those schools responded that I could > not work at the school unless my children were there.
> I just had a discussion with a school board member tonight. Because > our school is struggling, there are many that feel that I should put > my kids in, or leave. I responded by saying that it looks like I will > have to teach at a public school in order to homeschool my children > without harassment.
> I am a first generation adventist and very discouraged from what I am > experiencing here.
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group "Adventist Education Forum." > To post to this group, send email to AdventistEdForum@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to AdventistEdForum-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/AdventistEdForum
> Remember ~ EdForum is for discussion of topics directly related to Adventist Education. Please do not send advertising, off topic, or personal messages. Thanks for being a part of the Adventist Education Forum!
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group "Adventist Education Forum." To post to this group, send email to AdventistEdForum@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to AdventistEdForum-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/AdventistEdForum
Remember ~ EdForum is for discussion of topics directly related to Adventist Education. Please do not send advertising, off topic, or personal messages. Thanks for being a part of the Adventist Education Forum!
I am a sales manager for Ford. It is my job to tell how good Ford products are. Part of my job is to talk to visit XYZ Corporation and convince them to buy Ford for the fleet of cars and truck instead of the Chevys they have been buying for years. I relish the challenge and have a great meeting with their fleet manager and VP of Purchasing. They are excited about the advantages that Ford can give them. I have been convincing! I feel ready to close the sale. I decide to take them to dinner and a fancy restraunt to seal the deal. They accept my invitation and we walk out of their corporate headquarters to the parking lot and I open the door of my luxury SUV to give them a ride to dinner and they get suddenly stop with puzzled looks on their faces. Without saying a word, they both turn on their heals and leave me standing by the open door of my Cadilac Escalade. The next day I am fired.
I think Richard summed it up accurately. You should be proud of your choice but realize that it will be hard to sell one product while you use another.
Mel Wade *“In times of change the learners will inherit the earth, while the knowers will find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists. ” *Eric Hoffer http://www.melwade.com
Welcome to the world of mix signals. You are being told be a church whose founder encouraged home schooling yet because of your calling to teach has put you in a situation where you can't live your choice. An option that I help create for parents was to offer the homeschoolers the opportunity to attend for electives like music, art, and p.e. and computers. They paid a percentage of tuition yet homeschooled for the core classes. This relieved some of the "concerns" I do agree though that it is hard to be taken seriously as a teacher in a school that you have chosen not to support with your own children. Over the years we were put in situations where we were forced to consider pulling our kids from church school because of the treatment they were getting from their teachers because I was either a teacher or Principal in the system. Catch 22 decide which is best for your family cause in the end the church isn't going to care one way or the other what happens to you.
Kurt Kaufman
"THEY DON'T CARE WHAT YOU KNOW UNTIL THEY KNOW YOU CARE"
________________________________ From: SDA Educator <sdaeduca...@gmail.com> To: Adventist Education Forum <adventistedforum@googlegroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 8:56 PM Subject: [EdForum] Limited by Homeschooling
I have been an Adventist teacher for 15 years. I have had children for 9 of those years. When my wife and I got married we had made the decision to homeschool our children. For the last 3 years, especially this year, several people have become very "concerned" of how our homeschooling reflects on the school I teach at. I had put out some resumes 3 years ago and recieved calls and requests for interviews from 9 different schools. After recieving the invites and before I accepted the interview I let them know that we have chosen to homeschool our children. All 9 of those schools responded that I could not work at the school unless my children were there.
I just had a discussion with a school board member tonight. Because our school is struggling, there are many that feel that I should put my kids in, or leave. I responded by saying that it looks like I will have to teach at a public school in order to homeschool my children without harassment.
I am a first generation adventist and very discouraged from what I am experiencing here.
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group "Adventist Education Forum." To post to this group, send email to AdventistEdForum@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to AdventistEdForum-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/AdventistEdForum
Remember ~ EdForum is for discussion of topics directly related to Adventist Education. Please do not send advertising, off topic, or personal messages. Thanks for being a part of the Adventist Education Forum!
First in the area of full disclosure and perhaps where my perspective comes from, I am currently serve as principal of a Pre-K – 12 Adventist school and have worked in most areas of the Adventist K-12 education system.
Some great things have been said so by both Mel and Richard. I have always believed that if I can’t support the school where I’m working, I shouldn’t be teaching there. Unfortunately, that caused me to make one of the most difficult decisions in my entire career where I left one school because I could not support what was happening there. (Those who know me please don’t try to guess where this was!J)
SDA Educator, you have chosen a career of ministry as a teacher in an Adventist School and I assume you believe you are called to this ministry. At the same time working in this ministry is how you support your family, providing shelter and food, etc. for them. I don’t know the size of the school you are teaching, but if you are like many Adventist teachers, it is a small school. Most of these schools struggle to pay the cost of their teachers and other operating expenses and many church members are giving sacrificially to keep the school operating. In short, they need as many students as possible to make their school a reality. This may sound like a “money “ thing for the school, but remember, if they can’t pay for their teachers, you don’t have a job there and the rest of the students are not able to receive the benefits of an Adventist Education where you have been called minister.
Now, add to this the need for ALL teachers to help recruit and promote the school. What message are you giving to the parents in your ministry group when you indicate by your decisions with your own children’s education that you don’t believe in your ministry? As a side note, the issue of where you educate your children is not just an Adventist Education issue; it is a common policy in many private schools!
SDA Educator, you have the right to homeschool your children. I commend you for the dedication and commitment of time this takes to do this correctly and provide them with quality home schooling. I also commend you for disclosing to the nine schools where you interviewed, your position in this area. That was the right thing to do! However, I take issue with chastising the system when these boards or conferences look at their overall education ministry in their communities and realize that this combination won’t work. You may be the very best, dedicated Adventist Educator, but it may not be a fit.
I would suggest you either find a school that will accept you teaching for them while you homeschool your children, and fortunately, it sounds like Benjamin can give you some suggestions of where these schools are located. If you are unable to find such a position, please follow your convictions with your children and if necessary, continue your education ministry in another venue or type of school until your children are past this time in their lives. Your children are the most important thing God has entrusted to you – even more important than your working ministry – so continue to make them your first priority!
On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 9:56:04 PM UTC-5, SDA Educator wrote:
> I have been an Adventist teacher for 15 years. I have had children for > 9 of those years. When my wife and I got married we had made the > decision to homeschool our children. For the last 3 years, especially > this year, several people have become very "concerned" of how our > homeschooling reflects on the school I teach at. I had put out some > resumes 3 years ago and recieved calls and requests for interviews > from 9 different schools. After recieving the invites and before I > accepted the interview I let them know that we have chosen to > homeschool our children. All 9 of those schools responded that I could > not work at the school unless my children were there.
> I just had a discussion with a school board member tonight. Because > our school is struggling, there are many that feel that I should put > my kids in, or leave. I responded by saying that it looks like I will > have to teach at a public school in order to homeschool my children > without harassment.
> I am a first generation adventist and very discouraged from what I am > experiencing here.
I see where the original poster and Mel are coming from. Years ago I was principal and my daughter was in 3rd grade. We both were in the school for 3 years, but then my daughter encountered some developmental issues and after a long struggle I decided homeschooling was her only option for the next year(s) until she was ready for school again. The board did not see it that way and presented Mel's analogy. I had to resign. Personally, I have no regrets, but for our educational system I have deep disappointment. The underlying assumption and question is this: *Am I a Ford salesman for the company or am I transportation minister for the people?* I long for the day when the local and global church will take the attitude (and put it into action/programs) where the teacher is a minister/counselor to help each parent find the best solution for their children. One year that might be church school, the next year might be homeschool, the next year might be a half and half, or SDA remote education, or.... You see where I am going with this? Like salesman, we often (not always) are out for the $$ and for the institution. The people are second. I am not saying to get rid of the institution, far from it. We desperately need it, but I want to see its priorities and programs improve. My two cents and my sympathies to those caught in between. Ed Lyons
On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Mel Wade <m...@melwade.com> wrote: > Maybe this parable will help....
> I am a sales manager for Ford. It is my job to tell how good Ford > products are. Part of my job is to talk to visit XYZ Corporation and > convince them to buy Ford for the fleet of cars and truck instead of the > Chevys they have been buying for years. I relish the challenge and have a > great meeting with their fleet manager and VP of Purchasing. They are > excited about the advantages that Ford can give them. I have been > convincing! I feel ready to close the sale. I decide to take them to > dinner and a fancy restraunt to seal the deal. They accept my invitation > and we walk out of their corporate headquarters to the parking lot and I > open the door of my luxury SUV to give them a ride to dinner and they get > suddenly stop with puzzled looks on their faces. Without saying a word, > they both turn on their heals and leave me standing by the open door of my > Cadilac Escalade. The next day I am fired.
> I think Richard summed it up accurately. You should be proud of your > choice but realize that it will be hard to sell one product while you use > another.
> Mel Wade > *“In times of change the learners will inherit the earth, while the > knowers will find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that > no longer exists. ” *Eric Hoffer > http://www.melwade.com
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group > "Adventist Education Forum." > To post to this group, send email to AdventistEdForum@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > AdventistEdForum-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/AdventistEdForum
> Remember ~ EdForum is for discussion of topics directly related to > Adventist Education. Please do not send advertising, off topic, or personal > messages. Thanks for being a part of the Adventist Education Forum!
While I appreciate the necessity of brand loyalty in a company's employees, particularly the sales staff, I must point out two important places where this analogy breaks down. First, teachers aren't necessarily sales staff. There are some similar aspects and responsibilities in the work of an Adventist educator, but the main goals are education and a knowledge of Christ unto salvation. Meeting those goals will drive enrollment much better than "salesmanship" on the part of Adventist school teachers. But more than that, these goals are not met exclusively by Adventist Education, which brings me to the second point. Some children have needs that may not be met in the local church school. Adventist Educators, for example, in a one room school may not have any training in how to work with special needs students. Even if the teacher has the training, in a one room school, a special needs student will require nearly all of the teacher's attention, which will cause the other students' education to suffer from inadequate attention. In such circumstances, home school or some other option will better meet the needs of that student. The role of the student's parent has no bearing on such a situation. Therefore, an Adventist Educator whose child is not enrolled in the local church school is not necessarily the same as a Ford salesman who drives a Cadillac. To draw a parallel, a Porsche salesman who takes a large group of clients on a Boeing jet is not likely to be in danger of losing the sale or her job because Porsche doesn't make aircraft. Just so, the local church school may not offer a solution to meet the needs of all the students in the area.
Most importantly, it is up to that student's parent to make that choice. It is most definitely not up to the local church board or constituency to make that decision. Whether that child's parent happens to be the local church pastor or school teacher, a local church member or simply a local community member is entirely irrelevant. Parents have the responsibility and authority to make sure their children receive the best education available. That responsibility does not fall to the local church school board nor its constituents. That authority cannot and must not be usurped by the local church school board nor its constituents.
On Thursday, April 5, 2012, Mel Wade wrote: > Maybe this parable will help....
> I am a sales manager for Ford. It is my job to tell how good Ford > products are. Part of my job is to talk to visit XYZ Corporation and > convince them to buy Ford for the fleet of cars and truck instead of the > Chevys they have been buying for years. I relish the challenge and have a > great meeting with their fleet manager and VP of Purchasing. They are > excited about the advantages that Ford can give them. I have been > convincing! I feel ready to close the sale. I decide to take them to > dinner and a fancy restraunt to seal the deal. They accept my invitation > and we walk out of their corporate headquarters to the parking lot and I > open the door of my luxury SUV to give them a ride to dinner and they get > suddenly stop with puzzled looks on their faces. Without saying a word, > they both turn on their heals and leave me standing by the open door of my > Cadilac Escalade. The next day I am fired.
> I think Richard summed it up accurately. You should be proud of your > choice but realize that it will be hard to sell one product while you use > another.
> Mel Wade > *“In times of change the learners will inherit the earth, while the > knowers will find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that > no longer exists. ” *Eric Hoffer > http://www.melwade.com
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group > "Adventist Education Forum." > To post to this group, send email to AdventistEdForum@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > AdventistEdForum-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/AdventistEdForum
> Remember ~ EdForum is for discussion of topics directly related to > Adventist Education. Please do not send advertising, off topic, or personal > messages. Thanks for being a part of the Adventist Education Forum!
I believe you are certainly correct with the special needs area. I have been on several board where a request has come from a parent/teacher and have seen these boards make exceptions in light of these needs. I see that as a unique item and nothing was mentioned about children with special needs in the original post.
On Thursday, April 5, 2012 8:48:12 PM UTC-5, Benjamin Thompson wrote:
> While I appreciate the necessity of brand loyalty in a company's > employees, particularly the sales staff, I must point out two important > places where this analogy breaks down. > First, teachers aren't necessarily sales staff. There are some similar > aspects and responsibilities in the work of an Adventist educator, but the > main goals are education and a knowledge of Christ unto salvation. Meeting > those goals will drive enrollment much better than "salesmanship" on the > part of Adventist school teachers. But more than that, these goals are not > met exclusively by Adventist Education, which brings me to the second > point.
> Some children have needs that may not be met in the local church school. > Adventist Educators, for example, in a one room school may not have any > training in how to work with special needs students. Even if the teacher > has the training, in a one room school, a special needs student will > require nearly all of the teacher's attention, which will cause the other > students' education to suffer from inadequate attention. In such > circumstances, home school or some other option will better meet the needs > of that student. The role of the student's parent has no bearing on such a > situation. Therefore, an Adventist Educator whose child is not enrolled in > the local church school is not necessarily the same as a Ford salesman who > drives a Cadillac.
> To draw a parallel, a Porsche salesman who takes a large group of clients > on a Boeing jet is not likely to be in danger of losing the sale or her job > because Porsche doesn't make aircraft. Just so, the local church school > may not offer a solution to meet the needs of all the students in the area.
> Most importantly, it is up to that student's parent to make that choice. > It is most definitely not up to the local church board or constituency to > make that decision. Whether that child's parent happens to be the local > church pastor or school teacher, a local church member or simply a local > community member is entirely irrelevant. Parents have the responsibility > and authority to make sure their children receive the best education > available. That responsibility does not fall to the local church school > board nor its constituents. That authority cannot and must not be usurped > by the local church school board nor its constituents.
> On Thursday, April 5, 2012, Mel Wade wrote:
>> Maybe this parable will help....
>> I am a sales manager for Ford. It is my job to tell how good Ford >> products are. Part of my job is to talk to visit XYZ Corporation and >> convince them to buy Ford for the fleet of cars and truck instead of the >> Chevys they have been buying for years. I relish the challenge and have a >> great meeting with their fleet manager and VP of Purchasing. They are >> excited about the advantages that Ford can give them. I have been >> convincing! I feel ready to close the sale. I decide to take them to >> dinner and a fancy restraunt to seal the deal. They accept my invitation >> and we walk out of their corporate headquarters to the parking lot and I >> open the door of my luxury SUV to give them a ride to dinner and they get >> suddenly stop with puzzled looks on their faces. Without saying a word, >> they both turn on their heals and leave me standing by the open door of my >> Cadilac Escalade. The next day I am fired.
>> I think Richard summed it up accurately. You should be proud of your >> choice but realize that it will be hard to sell one product while you use >> another.
>> Mel Wade
>> *“In times of change the learners will inherit the earth, while the >> knowers will find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that >> no longer exists. ” *Eric Hoffer
>> http://www.melwade.com
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group >> "Adventist Education Forum."
>> To post to this group, send email to AdventistEdForum@googlegroups.com
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> AdventistEdForum-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/AdventistEdForum
>> Remember ~ EdForum is for discussion of topics directly related to >> Adventist Education. Please do not send advertising, off topic, or personal >> messages. Thanks for being a part of the Adventist Education Forum!
I have read your comments and empathize with those who claim to be circumstantial victims. I also read about the analogy of the Ford vs a Cadillac. I strongly believe that everyone has a choice to do what he or she is convicted to do. I also appreciate pastors who make decisions to go somewhere else when demanded to put their children in the schools where they are pastoring. However, I do question the motives of the so-called adventist teachers who choose to homeschool their children, yet teach other people's children in an adventist institutions, but yet the institutions are not good enough for their children. As an educator, I humbly ask these teachers to explain why they talk from both sides of their mouths? Please note that I am not challenging anyone's decision to homeschool his or her children, however I do ask why they teach in the same institutions where they feel are not good enough for their children. Realistically speaking, I feel that this forum, on this particular issue should come to a stop. We need to occupy our time with something more tangible, than to deal with the "rain" we call on ourselves. Finally, we will all have to make our bed and sleep in them. Best wishes as you all try to preach one thing, but do quite the opposite.
Sam Nkana, Ph.D.
Professor of Journalism & Communication,
Specialist in Media Literacy Education,
Curriculum & Instruction.
(423)503-5286
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 18:56:58 -0700 From: chcas...@gmail.com To: adventistedforum@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [EdForum] Limited by Homeschooling
I believe you are certainly correct with the special needs area. I have been on several board where a request has come from a parent/teacher and have seen these boards make exceptions in light of these needs. I see that as a unique item and nothing was mentioned about children with special needs in the original post.
On Thursday, April 5, 2012 8:48:12 PM UTC-5, Benjamin Thompson wrote:While I appreciate the necessity of brand loyalty in a company's employees, particularly the sales staff, I must point out two important places where this analogy breaks down. First, teachers aren't necessarily sales staff. There are some similar aspects and responsibilities in the work of an Adventist educator, but the main goals are education and a knowledge of Christ unto salvation. Meeting those goals will drive enrollment much better than "salesmanship" on the part of Adventist school teachers. But more than that, these goals are not met exclusively by Adventist Education, which brings me to the second point.
Some children have needs that may not be met in the local church school. Adventist Educators, for example, in a one room school may not have any training in how to work with special needs students. Even if the teacher has the training, in a one room school, a special needs student will require nearly all of the teacher's attention, which will cause the other students' education to suffer from inadequate attention. In such circumstances, home school or some other option will better meet the needs of that student. The role of the student's parent has no bearing on such a situation. Therefore, an Adventist Educator whose child is not enrolled in the local church school is not necessarily the same as a Ford salesman who drives a Cadillac. To draw a parallel, a Porsche salesman who takes a large group of clients on a Boeing jet is not likely to be in danger of losing the sale or her job because Porsche doesn't make aircraft. Just so, the local church school may not offer a solution to meet the needs of all the students in the area. Most importantly, it is up to that student's parent to make that choice. It is most definitely not up to the local church board or constituency to make that decision. Whether that child's parent happens to be the local church pastor or school teacher, a local church member or simply a local community member is entirely irrelevant. Parents have the responsibility and authority to make sure their children receive the best education available. That responsibility does not fall to the local church school board nor its constituents. That authority cannot and must not be usurped by the local church school board nor its constituents.
On Thursday, April 5, 2012, Mel Wade wrote:
Maybe this parable will help.... I am a sales manager for Ford. It is my job to tell how good Ford products are. Part of my job is to talk to visit XYZ Corporation and convince them to buy Ford for the fleet of cars and truck instead of the Chevys they have been buying for years. I relish the challenge and have a great meeting with their fleet manager and VP of Purchasing. They are excited about the advantages that Ford can give them. I have been convincing! I feel ready to close the sale. I decide to take them to dinner and a fancy restraunt to seal the deal. They accept my invitation and we walk out of their corporate headquarters to the parking lot and I open the door of my luxury SUV to give them a ride to dinner and they get suddenly stop with puzzled looks on their faces. Without saying a word, they both turn on their heals and leave me standing by the open door of my Cadilac Escalade. The next day I am fired.
I think Richard summed it up accurately. You should be proud of your choice but realize that it will be hard to sell one product while you use another.Mel Wade
“In times of change the learners will inherit the earth, while the knowers will find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists. ” Eric Hoffer http://www.melwade.com
Remember ~ EdForum is for discussion of topics directly related to Adventist Education. Please do not send advertising, off topic, or personal messages. Thanks for being a part of the Adventist Education Forum!
Remember ~ EdForum is for discussion of topics directly related to Adventist Education. Please do not send advertising, off topic, or personal messages. Thanks for being a part of the Adventist Education Forum!
I think you make a point, but to make a statement such as “I feel that
this forum, on this particular issue should come to a stop.” Is fine
if we lived in the old Russia or even Nazi Germany but we don’t and
one of the great things of this country is that we can debate and
learn from the debate. This particular discussion has had more
comments on it than most topics which mean that it is addressing an
issue which needs to be looked into since so many people have
expressed concerns. If we read all the post we even have a few
spinoff topics. If we really want to make the Adventist Education
better we need to listen to the discussion and even the sub-
discussions to see where we need or can make improvements. I truly
hope teachers are passionate about their own children and this should
never be discouraged or told to not talk about it…
While we may not agree with all comments that have been made there has
been some important dialog going on about some of the challenges in
Adventist Education and to just cut that off is unfortunate and border
line Anti-Adventist. This organization was established on questioning
and debating then taking it back to scripture to prove a topic wrong
or write. If we do not take a stand that is against the bible why
can’t the people talk about it? Some people who are willing to ask
questions help make our Education System better by looking at the
issues.
THIS TYPE OF QUESTIONING SHOULD BE ENCOURGAGED!
On Apr 6, 4:20 am, Sam Nkana <asnk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have read your comments and empathize with those who claim to be circumstantial victims. I also read about the analogy of the Ford vs a Cadillac. I strongly believe that everyone has a choice to do what he or she is convicted to do. I also appreciate pastors who make decisions to go somewhere else when demanded to put their children in the schools where they are pastoring. However, I do question the motives of the so-called adventist teachers who choose to homeschool their children, yet teach other people's children in an adventist institutions, but yet the institutions are not good enough for their children. As an educator, I humbly ask these teachers to explain why they talk from both sides of their mouths? Please note that I am not challenging anyone's decision to homeschool his or her children, however I do ask why they teach in the same institutions where they feel are not good enough for their children. Realistically speaking, I feel that this forum, on this particular issue should come to a stop. We need to occupy our time with something more tangible, than to deal with the "rain" we call on ourselves. Finally, we will all have to make our bed and sleep in them. Best wishes as you all try to preach one thing, but do quite the opposite.
> I believe you are certainly correct with the special needs area. I have been on several board where a request has come from a parent/teacher and have seen these boards make exceptions in light of these needs. I see that as a unique item and nothing was mentioned about children with special needs in the original post.
> On Thursday, April 5, 2012 8:48:12 PM UTC-5, Benjamin Thompson wrote:While I appreciate the necessity of brand loyalty in a company's employees, particularly the sales staff, I must point out two important places where this analogy breaks down. First, teachers aren't necessarily sales staff. There are some similar aspects and responsibilities in the work of an Adventist educator, but the main goals are education and a knowledge of Christ unto salvation. Meeting those goals will drive enrollment much better than "salesmanship" on the part of Adventist school teachers. But more than that, these goals are not met exclusively by Adventist Education, which brings me to the second point.
> Some children have needs that may not be met in the local church school. Adventist Educators, for example, in a one room school may not have any training in how to work with special needs students. Even if the teacher has the training, in a one room school, a special needs student will require nearly all of the teacher's attention, which will cause the other students' education to suffer from inadequate attention. In such circumstances, home school or some other option will better meet the needs of that student. The role of the student's parent has no bearing on such a situation. Therefore, an Adventist Educator whose child is not enrolled in the local church school is not necessarily the same as a Ford salesman who drives a Cadillac.
> To draw a parallel, a Porsche salesman who takes a large group of clients on a Boeing jet is not likely to be in danger of losing the sale or her job because Porsche doesn't make aircraft. Just so, the local church school may not offer a solution to meet the needs of all the students in the area.
> Most importantly, it is up to that student's parent to make that choice. It is most definitely not up to the local church board or constituency to make that decision. Whether that child's parent happens to be the local church pastor or school teacher, a local church member or simply a local community member is entirely irrelevant. Parents have the responsibility and authority to make sure their children receive the best education available. That responsibility does not fall to the local church school board nor its constituents. That authority cannot and must not be usurped by the local church school board nor its constituents.
> On Thursday, April 5, 2012, Mel Wade wrote:
> Maybe this parable will help.... I am a sales manager for Ford. It is my job to tell how good Ford products are. Part of my job is to talk to visit XYZ Corporation and convince them to buy Ford for the fleet of cars and truck instead of the Chevys they have been buying for years. I relish the challenge and have a great meeting with their fleet manager and VP of Purchasing. They are excited about the advantages that Ford can give them. I have been convincing! I feel ready to close the sale. I decide to take them to dinner and a fancy restraunt to seal the deal. They accept my invitation and we walk out of their corporate headquarters to the parking lot and I open the door of my luxury SUV to give them a ride to dinner and they get suddenly stop with puzzled looks on their faces. Without saying a word, they both turn on their heals and leave me standing by the open door of my Cadilac Escalade. The next day I am fired.
> I think Richard summed it up accurately. You should be proud of your choice but realize that it will be hard to sell one product while you use another.Mel Wade
> “In times of change the learners will inherit the earth, while the knowers will find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists. ” Eric Hofferhttp://www.melwade.com
> Remember ~ EdForum is for discussion of topics directly related to Adventist Education. Please do not send advertising, off topic, or personal messages. Thanks for being a part of the Adventist Education Forum!
> Remember ~ EdForum is for discussion of topics directly related to Adventist Education. Please do not send advertising, off topic, or personal messages. Thanks for being a part of the Adventist Education Forum!
That is a good question and fair point. It think a lot of that depends on the local community and their expectation when hiring the staff. I would lean more toward the Ford vs. Chevy, but...
While we are looking at the big picture, there are a lot of things we don't know about the specific situation that probably shouldn't be shared here.
What were the expectations when that teacher was hired? What are the reasons for homeschooling? Is it just for the family experience or is there friction among the staff members that is motivating this? Is this a large school or a small tight knit community? Big fish small pond, small fish large pond? What discussions have taken place before and how has that been handled on both sides?
Just as in student discipline situations, decisions shouldn't be made until all parties have been heard, we shouldn't jump to conclusions here since we don't know the entire situation. The Adventist system isn't perfect because it's made up of us - and we aren't perfect.
That being said, the discussion is healthy and valuable.
Mel Wade *“In times of change the learners will inherit the earth, while the knowers will find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists. ” *Eric Hoffer http://www.melwade.com
Thank you very much for your comments. Yes, we live in a free country where freedom of speech is everyone's prerogative. I believe in the same and I encourage others to do the same. As you know, no one individual has the rights or power to curtail others' ability to express self, especially in this age of media convergence. Believe me, I do not have that power, and if I did, I would not want to exercise it either. My objective was to hopefully get someone's attention so that we do not get off track, or end up getting others hurt. Nevertheless, I do appreciate your response, and thank you for it. I want us to continue discussing things that we would hopefully learn from, and at the same time remain within boundaries where we uplift the gospel, and nurture each other. I agree with you about uplifting Adventist Christian Education, and I must say that I am a proponent of it. No one says teachers should not be passionate about their own children or even barred from talking about it, but we must also understand that when such passion bleeds into the community, where mixed signal surfaces, eyebrows would be raised. Be it what it may, I feel for those of us who are discomforted in various situations, and I wish to see their issues resolved in the best way possible. Deep down in my heart, I do feel compassionate for the ailing, and truly hope solution is found.
> I think you make a point, but to make a statement such as “I feel that > this forum, on this particular issue should come to a stop.” Is fine > if we lived in the old Russia or even Nazi Germany but we don’t and > one of the great things of this country is that we can debate and > learn from the debate. This particular discussion has had more > comments on it than most topics which mean that it is addressing an > issue which needs to be looked into since so many people have > expressed concerns. If we read all the post we even have a few > spinoff topics. If we really want to make the Adventist Education > better we need to listen to the discussion and even the sub- > discussions to see where we need or can make improvements. I truly > hope teachers are passionate about their own children and this should > never be discouraged or told to not talk about it…
> While we may not agree with all comments that have been made there has > been some important dialog going on about some of the challenges in > Adventist Education and to just cut that off is unfortunate and border > line Anti-Adventist. This organization was established on questioning > and debating then taking it back to scripture to prove a topic wrong > or write. If we do not take a stand that is against the bible why > can’t the people talk about it? Some people who are willing to ask > questions help make our Education System better by looking at the > issues.
> THIS TYPE OF QUESTIONING SHOULD BE ENCOURGAGED!
> On Apr 6, 4:20 am, Sam Nkana <asnk...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > I have read your comments and empathize with those who claim to be circumstantial victims. I also read about the analogy of the Ford vs a Cadillac. I strongly believe that everyone has a choice to do what he or she is convicted to do. I also appreciate pastors who make decisions to go somewhere else when demanded to put their children in the schools where they are pastoring. However, I do question the motives of the so-called adventist teachers who choose to homeschool their children, yet teach other people's children in an adventist institutions, but yet the institutions are not good enough for their children. As an educator, I humbly ask these teachers to explain why they talk from both sides of their mouths? Please note that I am not challenging anyone's decision to homeschool his or her children, however I do ask why they teach in the same institutions where they feel are not good enough for their children. Realistically speaking, I feel that this forum, on this particular issue should come to a stop. We need to occupy our time with something more tangible, than to deal with the "rain" we call on ourselves. Finally, we will all have to make our bed and sleep in them. Best wishes as you all try to preach one thing, but do quite the opposite.
> > I believe you are certainly correct with the special needs area. I have been on several board where a request has come from a parent/teacher and have seen these boards make exceptions in light of these needs. I see that as a unique item and nothing was mentioned about children with special needs in the original post.
> > On Thursday, April 5, 2012 8:48:12 PM UTC-5, Benjamin Thompson wrote:While I appreciate the necessity of brand loyalty in a company's employees, particularly the sales staff, I must point out two important places where this analogy breaks down. First, teachers aren't necessarily sales staff. There are some similar aspects and responsibilities in the work of an Adventist educator, but the main goals are education and a knowledge of Christ unto salvation. Meeting those goals will drive enrollment much better than "salesmanship" on the part of Adventist school teachers. But more than that, these goals are not met exclusively by Adventist Education, which brings me to the second point.
> > Some children have needs that may not be met in the local church school. Adventist Educators, for example, in a one room school may not have any training in how to work with special needs students. Even if the teacher has the training, in a one room school, a special needs student will require nearly all of the teacher's attention, which will cause the other students' education to suffer from inadequate attention. In such circumstances, home school or some other option will better meet the needs of that student. The role of the student's parent has no bearing on such a situation. Therefore, an Adventist Educator whose child is not enrolled in the local church school is not necessarily the same as a Ford salesman who drives a Cadillac. > > To draw a parallel, a Porsche salesman who takes a large group of clients on a Boeing jet is not likely to be in danger of losing the sale or her job because Porsche doesn't make aircraft. Just so, the local church school may not offer a solution to meet the needs of all the students in the area. > > Most importantly, it is up to that student's parent to make that choice. It is most definitely not up to the local church board or constituency to make that decision. Whether that child's parent happens to be the local church pastor or school teacher, a local church member or simply a local community member is entirely irrelevant. Parents have the responsibility and authority to make sure their children receive the best education available. That responsibility does not fall to the local church school board nor its constituents. That authority cannot and must not be usurped by the local church school board nor its constituents.
> > On Thursday, April 5, 2012, Mel Wade wrote:
> > Maybe this parable will help.... I am a sales manager for Ford. It is my job to tell how good Ford products are. Part of my job is to talk to visit XYZ Corporation and convince them to buy Ford for the fleet of cars and truck instead of the Chevys they have been buying for years. I relish the challenge and have a great meeting with their fleet manager and VP of Purchasing. They are excited about the advantages that Ford can give them. I have been convincing! I feel ready to close the sale. I decide to take them to dinner and a fancy restraunt to seal the deal. They accept my invitation and we walk out of their corporate headquarters to the parking lot and I open the door of my luxury SUV to give them a ride to dinner and they get suddenly stop with puzzled looks on their faces. Without saying a word, they both turn on their heals and leave me standing by the open door of my Cadilac Escalade. The next day I am fired.
> > I think Richard summed it up accurately. You should be proud of your choice but realize that it will be hard to sell one product while you use another.Mel Wade
> > “In times of change the learners will inherit the earth, while the knowers will find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists. ” Eric Hofferhttp://www.melwade.com
> > Remember ~ EdForum is for discussion of topics directly related to Adventist Education. Please do not send advertising, off topic, or personal messages. Thanks for being a part of the Adventist Education Forum!
What is interesting, is that the ministry I have had at the school has
been blessed by the majority of my students making a decision for
Christ. As far as what impact my life choices with home-schooling is
making on the community.... I would say this... If you can home-
school, and do it with success, that should be your first choice.
However, individuals that seek out our schools are not usually
considering home-school as an option. If you cannot home-school, then
a good church school should be your next option.
I do not know of one home-schooler that has opted to put their
children in public school. However, I know MANY that have opted, after
the age of 9/10 to enroll them in our school.
As a conservative Adventist, I believe in following the counsel. And
that is where the dilemma is....
