(1) The video and audio should not be separated and recombined before they are written out. Send the original partial frames out to the disk as they are. Split off the audio and video for preview, but do not recombine them for writing to disk.
(2) If that won't work because the data must be reformatted. [I'm not sure what the DV disk format is. Not sure if this format is actually just DV frames on the disk.] THen if audio frames are missing, make up silent audio frames in the decomposer and toss them in the stream. That way the audio will not slip.
Looks like we know that this occurs in 6.5 as well, if we are talking about DV capture in the first post in this topic.
That's my guess. ANybody else got better info or other experiences?
FWIW,
djd
I think I have an explanation for this. I think there is a bug in DV capture. I've only seen this when the DV stream is probably dirty. That is, partal frames are probably present. I'm using Analog video from a VCR [beta] and passing it through a DV converter. I've used three different ones and the error occurs with all, which indicates to me that the error is in the computer rather than the converters. I've used a Sony DV8 camcorder, a Dazzle Hollywood bridge, and a Sony DV Converter box [DVMC-DA2]. All show the problem. See next part for a continuation.
You can cause this in two ways:
(1) use an audio tape that has undergone some linear editing. Adding and overwriting some clips. THere are bound to be some partial frames at the gaps unless you have a professional VCR.
(2) WHile the video is in preview via DV, scrub around using the analog VCR controls. THis will cause boucous partial frames.
Such partial frames appear to accumulate from the beginning of the time the capture window is opened. So if you open the capture window, scrub around in preview finding the place to start, and then capture some video, the Audio is way way off [that's when I noticed a large gap of about a second starting at the beginning of the movie.]
continued:
Try downloading the trial version of Scenalyzer from <http://www.scenalyzer.com> and see if that fixes your capture problem...
The other issue may be related to the way previews are handled assuming you are relying on the previews to determine whether or not it is in sync...For instance, the DVD simulator in DVDiT! is only an approximation of what the resulting DVD will look/behave like...There have been many reports of the previews being out of sync while the final disc was fine.
Problem is independent of preview. I have captured with and without preview and problem occurs in both. Avoiding any scrubbing during preview before capture sometimes eliminates problem for a tape. Other tapes have the problem even if no scrubbing.
And as I may have said, the audio frame slip is apparently cumulative. At end of 90 minute capture, audio may have slipped 10 frames while it was fine at beginning.
I'm not talking about DVD simulator. I'm talking prviewing the clip after capture in the Premier Clip preview window. Audio has definitely slipped. I'm not talking about slippage in DVD preview or after MPEG encoding. This is preview of RAW DV footage from HD after capture is complete.
Thanks,
djd
I scrubbed around during preview, then captured, and audio was messed up from the beginning of capture, by a lot.
Also, I looked up TYPE 1/2 on Microsoft website. I'm fairly sure that I'm capturing Type 1 since the Media player throws up when it sees the resulting captured AVI file.
djd
I think you're messing up the capture by scrubbing the source deck while capturing. Generally, you cue up several seconds prior to where you want to capture, start analog vcr, let it lock-up, then start capture. You stop capture prior to stopping vcr...This ensures a clean signal for the system to work with.
If you want to locate different spots to capture, I would suggest you dub it to DV first, then use batch capture after you have located the timecodes for the scenes you want.
Both show audio slippage. Slippage showsup even if I never scrub. If I start the deck [UTV] rolling and then open the capture window and start the capture without any scrubbing of the source, the slippage is less, but still present. Commercials in the UTV input seem to cause more slippage than content without slippage [although I don't have a tremendous amount of data in that area.]
I'm not just trying to get a quick workaround, but I'm fairly confident that the DirectMovie DV input filters have a slippage problem. I'm on DirectX 9.0 by the way. Problem started with DX 8.1 and upgrade to DX 9.0 did not change problem.
Any body know about the filter tree that Prem. uses and whether it might have a slippage problem if DV throws partial frames?
djd
Pinnacle Pro One RTDV
Premiere 6.5
MPEG 1.2 upgrade
2.5 P4
512 RDRAM 1066
80gig WD dedicated 7200 HD
DX 8.1
BTW, my system is:
Premere 6.0
Win2K SP3
Dell WS 530 dual 1.7GHz XEON
1GB RDRAM
3 SCSI Ultra160 10krpm HDs - 36,76,76 GB
nVidia GeForce 4ti4200, 128MB
DX 9.0
I have a home built computer running AP 6.5 I put about $700.00 into;
Win 2K Pro
1.5 Ghz proc
512M ram
120G, 80G, 40G HD
NTFS on the 120G
Fat32 on 80G & 40G
Adaptec firewire card
ZR 25 Camera
I am capturing up to 2 hours of footage via my Sony DV camcorder.
I simply save the video file at the end of the capture, close Prem 6.5 and use a standalone encoder (CCE 2.66) to convert the DV to mpeg2 (for DVD). There is no editing of the footage whatsoever.
After about an hour of play back (of the DVD) the audio is noticeably out of sync with the video.
Is it the way Prem6.5 captures or is it the Microsoft DV-codec.
Is it possible that along the line somewhere there has been some minor variation, perhaps by the camera,that results in audio not quite at 48 khz. ie. 48 khz by the camera is not 48 khz precisely.
It seems odd that the audio loses sync suddenly after about an hour. (no frames dropped during capture).
I should mention that I have not checked if the DV-AVI file is out of sync before conversion to mpeg2. I will test this.
Also I will attempt to capture with the mainconcept DV codec. Apparently with some system tweaking this is possible.
I always test DVD conversions on DVD-RW
It is at this point (playing the DVD-RW on a standalone DVD-Video player), where the audio loses sync after about 60-70 minutes.
All audio settings are at 48khz (both camera & Prem 6.5). There are no frames dropped during capture.
All suggestions given to me were already in place, which is why I'm at a loss as to why the problem is occuring.
Unfortunatley I cannot use the Mainconcept DV codec during capture, even after modifying system & registry settings.
Any more ideas?
It seems to me there are 2 places where it can loose sync if it's fine on the AVI timeline...1st. is when you do the original mpeg encoding, 2nd. is the multiplexing done by the DVD authoring program.
The mpeg portion can be previewed with Windows Media Player...is it OK there? If it is, then it's in the authoring softwares multiplexing.
Other than that, I haven't a clue other than maybe trying out some other authoring titles...I haven't used Scenarist, but I've heard it was pretty good.
My system is a P4 running XP and exceeds the required specs.
I captured several long (2+hours) analog video .AVI files using a Sony VCR connected to a Sony DCR-TRV730 camcorder attached to an OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 port using DV specs.
The capture was perfect; no dropped frames. When previewed on Premiere 6.5, the audio drifts, and is noticeably out of sync at 1 hr, and is about 1-2 seconds out of sync at 1 hr 42 min.
When exported to MPEG using Premiere 6.5, the resulting files are also out of sync.
However, this same .AVI file that was captured in Premiere 6.5 can be previewed or played by 4 other programs with no sync problems, and can be rendered correctly by Pinnacle Studio 8 and TMPGEnc without sync problems.
I think Premiere 6.5 has a bug.
What does the "compressor" line of the properties sheet inside of Premiere say when you examine the properties of one of your problem clips?
If you render to a DV avi file from inside of Premiere (and not to mpeg), is the resulting avi file out of synch, either in Premiere or any of the other "playback" programs you have?
Hopefully some clues will be forthcoming.
Jeff
All the settings are the same, Capture Settings, Project Settings, File Settings, Export Settings:
Mode: DV/IEEE1394 Capture
Mode: Microsoft DV AVI (for the others)
Compressor: Microsoft DV (NTSF)
Frame Size: 720 x 480
Frame Rate: 29.97 FPS
Depth: Millions
Quality: 100%
Pixel Aspect Ratio: D1/DV NTSC (0.9)
Sample Rate: 48000 Hz
Format: 16 bit - Stereo
Compressor: Uncompressed
Field Settings: Lower Field First
IF I render a DV avi file from inside of Premiere, the resulting avi file is out of sync in Premiere and other programs.
Howard
IF I render a DV avi file from inside of Premiere, the resulting avi file
is out of sync in Premiere and other programs.
This sounds like a mismatch between your camcorder output and your Premiere settings, so I'll ask again:
What is the audio sampling rate of your camcorder when using it as a pass-through device?
Also, do you have Enhanced Rate Conversion checked on or off?
Jeff
The audio sampling rate of my camcorder when using it as a pass-through device is 16 BIT.
The Enhanced Rate Conversion is off (it is not good or best).
Howard
Try encoding/exporting using the "Best" setting. Theoretically, you shouldn't need to if all your project and camcorder settings are telling the truth, but hey; you never know.
Also, I didn't see where you mentioned what the "compressor" line in the clip properties sheet in Premiere said. I saw your project compressor settings, but not the property sheet value.
Jeff
The compressor line in the clip properties sheet in Premiere said 'dvsd'.
Howard
Sure sounds like your setup and source are exactly what they are supposed to be. Let me dig through some old notes and see if I can come up with any other ideas.
Did you try the Enhanced Rate Conversion thing yet?
Jeff
The Enhanced Rate Conversion test had same results.
Howard
What follows is the extent of my notes (from other posts) concerning audio synch problems. I've never run into them on my system.
Here are the tests:
1. If the clip goes slowly out of sync over time, stop the clip playing
in the Timeline and then start playing it again. If the clip goes back
into sync, the problem is probably your project settings. This most commonly
happens because the Project Settings>Video Settings are set to 30 fps
instead of 29.97 fps. Change the settings for your project back to 29.97
fps and your problem will go away.
2. If the clip goes slowly out of sync over time AND if you stop/start
playing the clip and it stays out of sync, then check the properties of
the clip. If the properties window reports 29.96 or something slower than
29.97, then your video was recorded on a Canon camera that is recording
at an off sampling rate (yes, it's true, your very expensive Canon camera
is defective). Instead of recording audio at a true 32000Hz or 48000Hz,
it's recording at around 32042Hz or 48054Hz. Canon is aware of this problem,
although I've never heard anyone say they heard Canon admit it. The web
is full of info on this. Do a Google search on Canon DV audio sync. You'll
get an eyefull. As for fixing it in Premiere, well, you can't really.
The best you can do is delay how long before it starts to drift. Add the
following entry into the prem60.ini.
[Override]
ForceDVNTSCTimebase=1
Save the prem60.ini, close and restart Premiere. Now re-import your video
clips into Premiere (you can use the Replace Clips command to do this).
Now the clip properties of the re-imported clips will show 29.97 fps.
The clips will now play in sync for longer than 7 minutes, however it
starts to drift again at about 13 minutes (told you that you couldn't
really fix it). The only real fix for this is to get a replacement camera
or to capture 7 minute or less clips.
3.If the clips are always out of sync, Open the Project Setting viewer
and compare your captured clips to your project settings. If you are seeing
a lot of red entries, pay attention, it means something. In particular
look for discrepencies in sampling rate and compressor fields. Make your
changes to your project settings as necessary.
You also may want to try changing the interleave settings to see if that helps.
Sorry I couldn't be more help.
Jeff
Thank you for your help. I have reviewed your last list of notes and found that I comply (in the case of Canon, it does not apply).
As I stated earlier, the .AVI files that were captured in Premiere 6.5 can be previewed or played by 4 other programs with no sync problems, and can be rendered correctly by Pinnacle Studio 8 and TMPGEnc without sync problems. To me, this means that the captured .AVI file is OK.
My hard drive is dedicated to video data and has been tested to write data at 32.9MB/s sustained. It is using a transfer mode of UDMA-5.
Also, I tested Premiere 6.5 on two different sets of hardware with the same results.
No need to reply to this comment. I will signoff of this topic, and will wait for a future update, or will check back in a few months. (I have to get back to my Photoshop project.)
Again, thank you for your help.
Howard
PLEASE HELP!!!!
System:
Microft Windows XP
Professional
Version 2002
Service Pack 1
Processor:
GenuineIntel Family 15
Model 0 1.5 GHz Stepping 10
Hard Disks:
37.28 GB,
55.90 GB,
37.27 GB,
111.79 GB,
93.16 GB
Memory:
1.024GB of RAM
Capture Device:
Sony DCR-TRV530
Capture Mode:
16-Bit (48KHz)
All items in the Settings Viewer match.
With over 300GB of hard disk space and 1GB of RAM, you can pretty much guess that I do a lot of multimedia work on my 'workhorse'.
I never had the audio sync problems with AP6.0 - only with AP6.5. I've defragmented, changed the DV capture drives, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
The avi files that I capture run fine in Windows Media Player and others -- just not in AP6.5. It seems that captures around 30-minutes or more in length cause the out-of-sync problem to manifest itself in AP6.5.
I've come up with a workaround to solve MY problem -- not the AP6.5 bug:
I create a Batch Captures with the capture lengths being in the 10-minute range. Then I bring the 'little' files to the Timeline and do my edits. They play OK on the Timeline. They play OK after DV exports.
This isn't a 'fix', but at least it keeps me going until the real fix comes along.
I routinely export dv timelines nearly two hours long. I generate mpeg files from these same timelines, I make dv tape dubs -- I never ever have sync issues. So something in the settings or hardware on other systems must be different than mine.
In particular, the ATI AIW is a frequent source of trouble. I have one, and never use it for capture or export for those very reasons.
GB
What do I need to do to get this to sync up?
Alternatively, you could see if the program Scenalzyer Live works with your hardware -- you can download a working version at no charge that watermarks your video -- and see if that software works with your hardware.
Premiere only offers capture drivers to work with OHCI cards -- everything else comes from your hardware manufacturer.
GB
I believe the issue is one caused by minor variances in the audio sample rate translated into long clip sync issues when the only sync point is the start of the clip. Some camcorders are known to have non-standard audio sample rates (maybe that's why the issue seems to affect some, and not others) and the issue is a problem only for DV Type 2 files not Type 1.
GB
Experienced Premiere users are complaining about this in a variety of other forums -- seems too widespread to be all of us just screwing up our project settings using weak, misconfigured hardware. That said, a gracious thank-you to those of you taking the time to offer reasonable and intelligent suggestions as to other possible causes. Many of us have tried these other alternatives, however, and the problem persists.
I'd love to see Adobe address this in some form, even if it's just to swear it doesn't exist. Anyone here tried to talk to them about it? I can't afford pay-per-incident, but 90% of what I do is import a tape full of footage and chop it up, so this a big issue for me...
GT
Is there some way to move it into sync after I get the clip on to the timeline?
What do I need to know about this problum?
Miles G Smith
Scenalyzer also has an option to re-sync the audio on capture.