Re: PPro 1.5 BUG - 24p Normal Handled Incorrectly

[KevinC...@adobeforums.com]

-click on the file in the project bin, and use "interpret footage."

That changes the duration of the footage. Not what we're after here.

I thought 24p normal WAS 60i, since the pulldown is done in-camera...

You would think so, but have you actually tried this? Adobe removes the pulldown for you, and there's no way to force it to do otherwise. That has been covered in other threads.

It wouldn't be such a bad situtation, if the automatic, inflexible pulldown removal worked well for 24p Normal. But it doesn't.

(Mind you, this is all for 24p Normal. 24p Advanced works beautifully.)

[KevinC...@adobeforums.com]

No responses from Adobe lurkers? This is a real bug, easily reproducable, and dramatically affects the usablility of one of version 1.5's major new features.

[Aanarav...@adobeforums.com]

I would reccomend calling Adobe tech support.

[KevinC...@adobeforums.com]

I was hoping it could all play out here in public, where other users could benefit from it as well, and other 24p users might still hold some hope, and stop their gradual migration away from Premiere Pro and towards Sony Vegas.

[Dale_Ha...@adobeforums.com]

Call and post the reply.

[Eddie_...@adobeforums.com]

I know next to nothing about 24P because I have no need of it, but there are several pages of information on it in the PPro online help. One of the items in the section "Capturing, importing, and playing back 24P footage" talks about two methods of frame pull-up for playback. It would be worth trying both settings to see which one produces the best results for you.

Cheers
Eddie

[KevinC...@adobeforums.com]

Thanks Eddie,
I am familiar with those settings. For preview, setting Preview Method to Repeat Frame does work better for me than Interlaced Frame.

However, these are Preview settings and that is not the problem here. The strobing effect I am speaking of is introduced in Premiere's handling of the footage, and is even present when you export the timeline and open it in another app. (While if you open the original footage in another app, it's fine.)

There are no settings that let you choose how Premiere inteprets the footage, and the method chosed by Adobe is just plain wrong.

(Wrong for 24p Normal footage, that is. Again, for 24p Advanced, everything works great.)

[Lucas_...@adobeforums.com]

Not to change the subject of this important thread, but to anyone who has called Tech Support is that call going to cost $35?

[KevinC...@adobeforums.com]

I think within a certain period it is "free." However, I'm not looking forward to running up my long distance bill while the person on the other end, who probably does not understand the difference between 2:3:2:3 ("normal") and 2:3:3:2 ("advanced") pulldown try to convince me that the problem does not exist, or that it is my fault.

This is not a camera problem.
This is not a capture problem.
This is not a preview-only problem.
This is an Adobe Premiere Pro implementation problem.

It is a 100% reproducable bug.

This bug is experienced not only by me, but also by other Panasonic DVX100/Premiere Pro users. (There are a few of us.)

Other programs that handle the footage (Vegas, Scenalyzer, Media Player) do not display the strobing. Premiere not only displays the strobing, but propigates it into rendered AVIs and MPEGs, and DVDs. With the smae footage, Vegas does not show the same strobing, and it's rendered output is fine.

[KevinC...@adobeforums.com]

Over at DVXUser.com somebody came up with a novel workaround for this problem.

Edit the 24p normal footagein a 60i timeline in Premiere Pro, but don't render the output in Pro because the output will be screwed up as described earlier in this thread. (Even in a 60i timeline, PPro will treat the footage as 24p, will botch the pulldown removal, and will insist on re-pulling down the botched footage. A red "render" bar will appear over the footage in the timeline.)

Instead, open the PremierePro project in After Effects. After Effects will interpret the footage from 60i, and you can render the timeline from there.

You can also edit in a 24p timeline within Premiere and import that into After Effects, but for each 24p clip you have to interpret footage.

But this doesn't let Adobe off the hook -- it's awkward and not all users have After Effects.

Adobe -- fix this bug!

[Aanarav...@adobeforums.com]

Rendering in AE is going to take a while!

[KevinC...@adobeforums.com]

Aanarav Sareen wrote:

> Rendering in AE is going to take a while!

That's why I'd really like Adobe to fix this bug!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not out to make trouble. I LOVE Adobe Premiere. I'm just tired of people on the DVX100 forums (the people towards whom this feature is aimed) saying "Use *Vegas* for 24p. It's the only program that handles it and handles in correctly."

Adobe, fix this problem!

[KevinC...@adobeforums.com]

OK, we've disconvered the probelm affects BOTH 24p Normal and 24p Advanced.

In 24p Normal, it shows up on import, as soon as the 2-3 pulldown is removed.

In 24p Advanced, it shows up on EXPORT, when the 2-3 pulldown is added for dumping to tape.

Adobe, this big new feature is starting to look like a disaster.

[Lucas_...@adobeforums.com]

Kevin,

So at what point do we assume that Adobe either doesn't know or doesn't care about fixing this problem?

Basically, I cannot edit on PPro 1.5. I have been editing on 1.0 even though I have paid for the upgrade and its just sitting there.

What are the chances that if Adobe does fix this, it will be called 2.0 and cost $200 for an upgrade????

Just a check box... just a simple little checkbox... ;)

lucas

[Aki_Har...@adobeforums.com]

Adobe does not do bug fixes between Premiere Pro versions so don't hold your breath.

The problem with Adobe is that their sales are still very strong, they are market leader in print and publishing and that's where they make their big money.

They are nowhere near as competent in digital video but because of good sales in print and publishing it doesn't bother them. It's a shame but as mentioned don't expect miracles to happen with any reported bugs.

[Philo_...@adobeforums.com]

I don't have a 24P camera, but I would guess they will indeed add a bug fix between versions if the defect is that glaring. I doubt they want to see people switching to Avid or Vegas because they can't use their new camcorder.

[Mark...@adobeforums.com]

Trust me, I will be calling support and if Adobe is monitoring this site then I suggest they respond. I was so excited to get 1.5 because everything I shoot is in 24p, but after this thread I ran extensive tests and not only do the bright areas strobe, all motion is screwed up like it's skipping frames. This by the way only happens on output to tape as I have been burning native 24p DVD's and it has been fine. This however is totally unacceptable. I would hope that Adobe would have a downloadable patch available within a few weeks.

[Ba...@adobeforums.com]

I would hope that Adobe would have a downloadable patch available within
a few weeks.

as would i.

BabaG

[mar...@adobeforums.com]

We could all refuse to upgrade until they fix the bugs!

[John_...@adobeforums.com]

I would guess they will indeed add a bug fix between versions if the defect
is that glaring.

If history repeats, the next bug fix will be in 8 months and cost $99.

[Mark...@adobeforums.com]

I spoke to an Adobe tech support person this morning and they were very helpful and interested in researching this issue and resolving it. As I had said in my earlier post, my issues were strobing upon capture and output with 24pN (normal) and on output to tape with 24pA (advanced)as well as a stuttering effect when trying to capture, edit and ouput 24pN footage using the regular DV preset and not the new Panasonic 24p preset. What I learned was that unlike PPRO 7.0 (1.0) the new 1.5 recognises all Panasonic 24P footage as 23.976 whether you're in the Panasonic preset or not. That's why it stutters when it's in the regular DV preset unlike PPRO 1.0. I wish they just left the regular DV preset alone so people who want to edit 24pN in a 60I timeline (29.97) could do it. The Tech gave me a work around - highlight the clip in the project window -- right click -- hit interpret footage and change the clip to 29.97 and hit enter. That solved the stuttering -- although a pain -- but the strobing in the high contrast areas still there. They need to restore regular DV preset to take in 29.97 regardless of camera. I think the strobing is definately a bug -- not just a design flaw -- I think it has to do with how it interprets field order when capturing or adding the 3:2 pulldown on export to tape from the advanced preset. The tech told me he would foward my inquiry to the appropriate department as well as this thread. Anyway, I hope this helps -- keep your fingers crossed for a quick fix.

[Nick_M...@adobeforums.com]

Damn, I'm having this problem too! Just putting my two cents in...I'm a frustrated 24p user.

[Mark...@adobeforums.com]

Lucas,
I found that my footage sped up as well, but that was footage shot F6 or in the 24P advanced setting. When I was in the regular DV preset and captured F5 or 24pN, then the interpret footage worked for me. However, this is all a mute point since the strobing is there regardless. I'd be interested in hearing what you find.

[Lucas_...@adobeforums.com]

Mark,

Thanks for taking on this "actionable item" ;) I have been sitting on this problem for some time hoping it would solve itself... or someone would get through to support.

In any case, also check out dvxuser.com, plenty of people are trying to solve the same problem as well.

As per your workaround of changing the "interperet footage" setting, I tried this some time ago and it did not work for me. It ended up playing my footage to at an incorrect speed (as if had increased the speed of the clip). I will try it again when i get back to my machine and hopefully provide a more detail.

Thanks,
lucas

[Lucas_...@adobeforums.com]

Mark,

My 24p-normal (F5) footage definately speeds up when I change the "interperet footage" to 29.97. The motion is fast and the audio is obviously at a higher pitch. When I lay down the footage without changing the "interperet footage" setting it is jerky (even more so after I render the area because premiere sees the footage as having a different rate than the project).

So, in other words, that workaround does not work for me. Now, if it works for you, this is strange.

lucas

oh, and the strobing is always there as well ;)

[Mark...@adobeforums.com]

Lucas,
You're right. The work around doesn't work. It does speed up both 24pN and 24p Advanced. At the time I was speaking with the tech, the only footage I had were shots I had taken outdoors. Pans and tilts of the flowers and neigborhood. No real dialogue so I didn't notice the footage was smooth, but slightly sped up. Regardless, we're back to the same two fixes, the ability to use 24pN in the regular DV preset coming in at 29.97 and the strobing issue. (which is a biggy)

[Ba...@adobeforums.com]

i've just started exporting a 24p advanced project and haveb been getting this same speed/strobing issue. it's spectacular. is anybody reporting this?

BabaG

[Greg...@adobeforums.com]

Yes, you guys should definitely submit a bug report. The more people bring it up, the sooner it will be fixed.

[Mark...@adobeforums.com]

How many people out there are having this problem?

[Lucas_...@adobeforums.com]

There is a good conversation going on about this at dvxuser.com also... but no answers ;)

[Mark...@adobeforums.com]

Have you put in a bug report? It's really in Adobe's hands now. I hope they fix it soon.

[Lucas_...@adobeforums.com]

OK,

I have to ask. How do I put in a bug report? All I can find is feature request.

[Lucas_...@adobeforums.com]

Nevermind, found it, did it... waiting for response.

Others should do it too, perhaps.

Thanks
lucas

[Nick_M...@adobeforums.com]

Just put in a bug report. by the way, has anyone reverted back to Premiere Pro 1.0 in order to use the 24p in 60i timeline?

[Mark...@adobeforums.com]

It seems my only choice is to go back to 1.0 for this doc that I'm doing. I would like to cut in a 24 preset, but I'm nervous to do so especially since I can't output to tape for client viewings even though I would eventually go to DVD. I placed my bug report through tech support how do you do it through this website???

[Tr...@adobeforums.com]

Bug reports:
<http://www.adobe.com/misc/bugreport.html>

[Lucas_...@adobeforums.com]

For all my 24p work, I am using version 1.0

It's very unfortunate, but I don't know what else to do.

[Nick_M...@adobeforums.com]

Currently doing my work on 1.0 now...and everything works MUCH BETTER. Just finished a project and the client loved it. Whew, glad I had a work-around. Shame on Premiere 1.5!

[Paul_H...@adobeforums.com]

Thank you!

Please note: You will not get a response to your bug submission.

----------------------------------------------
In otherwords....... don't hold your breath.

[Ba...@adobeforums.com]

can i use v1.0 to open and export a final composite avi on a project that has been entirely done in v1.5? there are no complex effects. there are a couple of sequences that utilize two video tracks and dissolves but that's about it.

thanks,
BabaG

[Nick_M...@adobeforums.com]

Yep.

[Mark...@adobeforums.com]

Got it. Did it.

[Lucas_...@adobeforums.com]

So what's the deal... I'm so shocked that there is no way to get a response from Adobe... even if its a "we see this and we are working on it" response.

I'm using Ppro 1.0 to edit my footage because 1.5 is unusable in its current form because it cannot handle 24p correctly, and it won't even let me disable the pulldown function. If I didn' have version 1.0, I wouldn't be able to edit at all.

And we hear nothing from Adobe. How do you get a little 'hello' so we even think they may know about this.

[Nick_M...@adobeforums.com]

Their "Hello" is a 99$ upgrade.

[Lucas_...@adobeforums.com]

Honestly, let's see it then. I would at least like to know they fixed the problem.

I know we all complain (i do too) that they nailed us with a $99 dollar upgrade for a program we bought only months earlier.

But seeing the fix to this problem would at least be A FIX TO THIS PROBLEM ;)

I'd rather complain about a $99 dollar upgrade and be working, than complain about the fact that I cannot even use the program.

[Eddie_...@adobeforums.com]

Lucas, I would be very interested to have a look at a 24P clip. Do you have one that is less than 100MB? If so I can give you details of where to upload it.

Cheers
Eddie

[Lucas_...@adobeforums.com]

Eddie,

yes i do. I have been using this same clip to show other people too. Check out the strobing in the top left, in the sky.

<http://www.lucasmerino.com/premiere/strobe.mov>

thanks,
lucas

[Lucas_...@adobeforums.com]

Sure, I can upload it to a space.

How can I get your email address?

[Eddie_...@adobeforums.com]

Lucas, sorry, I meant I would like access to the actual file captured from your source, not a compressed export from PPro. That is I would like an uncompressed or DV AVI file to work with.

Cheers
Eddie

[Eddie_...@adobeforums.com]

Lucas, go to GreatNow.com <http://greatnow.com> and log in with Username "app.greatnow.com" and password "appro". Click on the "HTML File Manager" link, then click on the "upload" button and upload the clip. There should be 100MB available.

Thanks
Eddie

[Lucas_...@adobeforums.com]

Will try to get it up tonight... if not, I will be back in town Monday and will do it then.

thanks

[KevinC...@adobeforums.com]

Although, Eddie, you should note that this problem is easily reproducable by anyone with a DVX100 and PremierePro. You just need to make sure to have some overexposed sky in the background. To see the strobing, you need an external monitor or use PPro's waveform monitor.

Here's a little picture I made to illustrate the problem with the waveform monitor.

<http://www.southave.com/kevin/f5flickering.gif>

This shows the artifacts PPro introduces into 24p Normal footage. The "assembled" frames are clipped to 100 IRE.

24p Advanced footage also shows the problem, but only on Export to Tape when PPro introduces its own Pulldown.

[Nerv_S...@adobeforums.com]

OK, quick question for those who are having this problem to clairify.
If you do 24 Advanced, edit and export to MPEG-2 does it have the same effect? Or only when you export to tape?

Thanks

I'm wanting to get this version because of the DVX100 support, but not if it doesn't work right.

[Greg...@adobeforums.com]

It appears to only affect tape exports.

[Nerv_S...@adobeforums.com]

Thanks, maybe I'll get the Video Collection afterall. Hopefully the new fixes won't cost $99 this time around.

[KevinC...@adobeforums.com]

I guess this needs clarification.

In the case of 24p Noraml, there is no way to avoid this problem.

In the case of 24p Advanced, Export to Tape is the EASIEST way to demostrate the problem, but it creeps up elsewhere as well -- anytime you output your 24p timeline as 29.97 NTSC.

So if you export your 24p video to a 23.976 Progressive MPEG for DVD, you will not see the strobing. But if you export to a 29.97 MPEG, you WILL see the strobing.

However, if you Export your file as an NTSC AVI or QuickTime, you WILL see the strobing.

And, as I've said before, if you Export to Tape, you will see the strobing.

ADOBE, FIX THIS PROBLEM!

[Adam_L...@adobeforums.com]

Got the same problem. I'm so sick of coming to work with the Vegas guys and feeling like a sucker because I'm stuck on PPro. I don't even defend it any more because the proof is right in front of our faces.

[phil_...@adobeforums.com]

I would be reluctant to upgrade to pro 1.5 if this is not fixed. It anything being done?

[Nick_M...@adobeforums.com]

Nope.

[KevinC...@adobeforums.com]

No. For some strange reason Adobe seems satisfied with their flawed implementation, while 24p users trickle over to Vegas.

[Nick_M...@adobeforums.com]

Is anyone interested in getting a petition going? That may be the only way....

[Lucas_...@adobeforums.com]

Ill sign anything or do whatever. Otherwise I'm gonna have to trickle on over in little less than a month.

Actually, this morning I had a daydream about telling you guys that I received my copy of Vegas today... it was weird.

[Mark...@adobeforums.com]

Put me on that petition list.

[KevinC...@adobeforums.com]

Yes, I'd happily put my name in. I've been active on the Premiere forum at DVXUser.com and there are more people there that are experiencing problems.

[Ba...@adobeforums.com]

add me.

BabaG

[Philo_...@adobeforums.com]

I think Avid Xpress Pro (as well as Vegas) do 24p. Hopefully Premiere will add this better. I have a X1s and am debating getting the new Canon that has 24p as a feature.

[Mark...@adobeforums.com]

Has anyone gotten any response from Adobe?

[axel...@adobeforums.com]

I've been able to reproduce this bug as well. Here's what I've discovered with my footage....

If I look at the YC Waveform display there is a green bar on the right hand side showing the min / max IRE values. By looking at each frame, here is what is reproduced for the TOP IRE level...

FRAME 1 - 110
FRAME 2 - 110
FRAME 3 - 110
FRAME 4 - 110
FRAME 5 - 106
FRAME 6 - 110
.
.
.
FRAME 10 - 106

By adding a Broadcast Colors filter and limiting the IRE to 106, the strobing is significantly reduced, but not entirely eliminated. This does not happen in my Avid system. (same footage)

It does not seem to matter whether the footage is captured in a "panasonic" template, or a straight 60i project. The strobing is still there. All 60i footage looks normal on the scopes.

BTW- I didn't come up with clipping on my own - I think I read something like this on DVXuser. The difference is some people seem to be having the problem every 4 frame (mine is consistently every fifth), and they seem to have different IRE levels that work best for them (110, 100, etc.)

Whatever particulars for your project, this is a bug that makes me look less than my best in front of clients. Adobe needs to address this before their next major release.

-axel

[axel...@adobeforums.com]

Here's something rather strange.

I have been able to reduce or eliminate strobing on several clips by adding the Brightness Contrast Filter and changing the contrast by a very small amount (like 1).

Suddenly the strobing stops.

It just gets curiouser and curiouser.

-axel

[D...@adobeforums.com]

Hi Axel,

The reason the strobing is reduced when applying the Brightness & Contrast video filter is because Brightness & Contrast is an RGB effect. RGB effects clip highlight and shadow information from the range of possible Y values (native YUV video data can extend above and below 0..100IRE). Once every frame's pixel values fall within 0..100 IRE, the strobing is reduced, although if you were to view the frames using the YC Waveform display mode (accessed using the Output popup menu in the transport controls along the lower edge of the Monitor window), you would still be able to make out some clipping.

To better illustrate this clipping, try applying the ProcAmp video filter on a video clip with no other effects, and adjust the brightness and contrast parameters in the ProcAmp video filter such that the highlight and shadow values extend above and below 0..100 IRE (using the YC Waveform display mode to see your results).

Then apply an RGB effect (such as Brightness & Contrast) and scrub through the clip while viewing it with the YC Waveform display mode.

If you turn the Brightness & Contrast video filter on and off (using the Filter switch to the left of the Filter name in the Effect Controls window) while viewing the YC Waveform display, you should be able to see the extent of the clipping when switching between YUV and RGB representations of the video.

Regards,

David Vasquez
Premiere Pro Team

[KevinC...@adobeforums.com]

David,
Thanks for your authoritative input on this matter. Can you provide any insight on how Adobe intends to address the problem?

If Brightness & Contrast isn't the best workaround, can you recommend another?

Thanks
Kevin

[D...@adobeforums.com]

Hi Kevin,

Please use the ProcAmp video filter to bring your highlights and shadows within range, because it is able to process input frames that use the full range of YUV values, without the pre-clipping caused by the conversion to RGB that is required when using RGB video filters.

Although you will have slightly reduced dynamic range, processing your video using ProcAmp to bring highlights and shadows within 0..100IRE will allow you to avoid the clipping which is introduced whenever RGB-only effects or processing takes place.

Please note that the above described ProcAmp processing is only necessary when your video has highlights or shadows outside of 0..100IRE. If your video does not have pixels which extend into that range, then ProcAmp processing is not necessary.

[Mark...@adobeforums.com]

David,
Does that mean that Adobe is not working on a fix for this 24P strobing issue? Thank you.

[HeyB...@adobeforums.com]

I just purchased the DV Collection Pro. This is the most dissapointing $2000 I've ever spent. I've got huge issues with After Effect 6.5 (with video preview and RAM issues) as well as this issue with PremPro 1.5.

What the hell? I think I might have to return this product and consider pirating the previous versions of the software, which I've used before with no problems.

[D...@adobeforums.com]

Hi Mark,

I have printed out the most informative posts about this issue to show to various folks on the team.

However, my employer prohibits me from commenting on fixes or future releases.

[creig...@adobeforums.com]

As much as I like the Adobe Collection, I still need to ask:
Is smugism a word?

[KevinC...@adobeforums.com]

Hi David,
Thanks for at least letting us know that the Premiere Team is aware of the problem.

I hope your team also knows that users of DVX100 24p Normal (as opposed to 24p Advanced) footage may *not* want the pulldown removed at all. So I hope that a useful "Interpret Footage" command is somewhere in the future as well.

If you need any testing assets or beta testers for DVX100-related fixes or features, please don't hesitate to ask.

[KevinC...@adobeforums.com]

Hi David,
I don't know if it has been mentioned here, but it has turned up on the Premiere forum at DVXUser.com.

Some 24p users are occaisionally having a problem with PPro's pulldown removal getting the cadence wrong and starting on the wrong frame, resulting in bad interlacing artifacts in what should be progressive footage.

This is another argument for an "Interpret Footage" command that works with 24p.

If you are not familiar with the Premiere forum on DVX100User.com, you probably should check it out.

Thanks
Kevin

[Nick_M...@adobeforums.com]

Kevin, you misspelled it...it should be DVXUSER.COM. Excellent forum all around for the DVX100 Camera!

[Nick...@adobeforums.com]

This problem is indeed alarming. I was almost finished for a high budget DVD project - upgraded to Premiere Pro 1.5, imported my new project and didn't notice the problem until I overwrote the old project file. What a big mistake on my part. Now the video looks atrocious with the flicker. Looks like I'm starting over; another sleepless night.

[axel...@adobeforums.com]

Has anyone tried the ProcAmp video filter suggested by the Adobe representative?

Maybe I'm just thick, but I can't seem to get this filter to reduce the strobing at all. Is there a setting I'm missing here?

-axel

[D...@adobeforums.com]

Hi Axel,

My employer has an accounting policy which prohibits me from giving away a filter preset that would accomplish this task, so I will walk you through the steps that are required to create it yourself. (If anyone could post this filter preset to share with others, I'm sure other users would appreciate it.)

If you take a look at the screenshot Kevin Corcoran made of the waveform monitor (in posting #53 in this thread) to illustrate the strobing issue, you can see that one of the frames is clipped, while the other frames are not.

By bringing the shadows and highlights of the unclipped frames within the range of the clipped frame (somewhere around 0..100IRE) the strobing effect should be reduced (although not completely eliminated - there is likely to still be some subtle chroma strobing as well).

To fix an entire clip of video in this manner requires keyframing to only process the unclipped frames, and not the clipped frames.

As a time saver, Premiere Pro 1.5 has a preset filter capability that allows you to make a copy of your keyframes that you can use over and over again on additional clips.

1. Apply the ProcAmp filter onto the strobing clip.
2. Scrub the CTI to the first frame that has its values clipped to approx. 0..100IRE.
3. In the Effect Controls window, click the small watch switch buttons to the left of the Brightness and Contrast parameters in the ProcAmp filter.
4. Right click each of the keyframes and choose "Hold" interpolation mode.
5. Step one frame forward to the adjacent unclipped frame (it should have values with more dynamic range - that extend vertically a greater distance than the clipped frame's values do).
6. Adjust the Brightness and Contrast parameters in the ProcAmp filter such that the unclipped frame's values fall within approx. 0..100IRE. (The dynamic range, or vertical extent of the values of the frame should now look similar to that of the previous frame.)
7. Right click each of the keyframes you created in step 6 and choose "Hold" interpolation mode.
8. Click and drag out a marquee with the mouse to select all four of the keyframes you have made.
9. Right-click anywhere in the keyframe view in the Effect Controls window and choose "Copy" from the contextual menu that appears.
10. Move the CTI down to the next clipped frame position.
11. Right click anywhere in the keyframe view in the Effect Controls window and choose "Paste" from the contextual menu.
12. Repeat steps 9 through 11, doubling the number of keyframes you copy and paste each time, until you have enough keyframes to fill your entire clip.
13. Right-click on the title of the ProcAmp effect in the Effect Controls window and choose "Save Preset...".
14. In the "Save Preset" dialog, choose the "Anchor to In Point" option. (You don't want the "Scale" option because the strobing is at a fixed frequency that doesn't change from clip to clip.)
15. Name your preset with an easy to remember name, such as "Destrobe", and click OK.
16. The preset you just created should now appear in the Effects window ready for you to use on other clips.

You can now apply this filter preset to other clips that have super white highlights and super black shadows without having to repeat the above process.

Please post again if any of the above steps are unclear. If you still cannot get satisfactory results, please consider posting a very short snippet of the problematic video (just a few seconds will do) on a web page or FTP site, and we can walk through this issue in more detail using a portion of your specific clip.

[Mike_M...@adobeforums.com]

David, thanks for posting.

I understand Adobe's policies mentioned in this thread regarding restrictions over employees announcing pending fixes and such. These rules make a lot of sense to help protect the corporation. I appreciate whenever Adobe team members stick their neck out on this (sometimes brutal) forum to help inform the user base. There are obvious personal risks taken whenever you and others speak up here. In taking these risks, you demonstrate a dedication to the products you work on and your companies customers. I have encountered this attitude from most of the Adobe employees that I have had contact with and this is, in part, why I continue to primarily work in the Adobe product space.

However, I would like to see Adobe management amend their policies moderately to officially acknowledge significant bugs and to let the users know that they aware of the problem and what their strategy is for remedying the issue or not. The user base gets significantly frustrated simply over the lack of acknowledgment and this causes much ill will of many users against Adobe.

I would suggest the following management responses to known issues with a product's advertised feature set:

Issue list:
We aware that an issue exists under the following circumstances / scenarios _____. We are aware that that it results in ____.

Workarounds:
The following explains a suggested workaround to this issue: _____. The workaround is limited in the following ways _____.

Adobe action:
1. We have no plans to address this issue at this time.
2. We will address this issue in a future release of the product.
3. We are investigating the possibility of releasing a bug fix patch but have not established a timeframe for doing so.
4. We are planning on releasing a bug fix patch within the following time frame _____.

I realize that implementing this type of communication policy would be a big step for Adobe. But I think that it would go a long way toward improving the perception of the company with existing and potential customers. With other Adobe products, we have seen recent bug fixes and release patches. Every reputable software company releases patches from time to time. Releasing a patch is in affect an addition that there was an issue. Certainly if Adobe is planning to release a patch, a policy ammendment that allows stating that a patch will be released is no worse than the current policy. You will obviously not fix every issue found and people will complain about it when you decide not to. But you will eliminate so many more complaints for issues that you state that you will address even before they are fixed.

[KevinC...@adobeforums.com]

I understand Adobe's unwillingness to make promises when a particular release or update will occur -- if they miss the announced date, users will be more angry when they were before.

For now, the problem is avoidable in some workflows (for example, shoot 24p Advanced, export to 24p DVD) and for cases where it's unavoidable (shooting 24p Normal, exporting to tape) there are workarounds.

I hope Adobe takes their time and gets 24p right, rather than rush another half-implemented version to users.

[Mark...@adobeforums.com]

I agree -- but sooner than later would be nice.

[Steve...@adobeforums.com]

If somebody wants to send me a copy of the preset, or send me a frame from the AVI file, I will be happy to post the preset on my site.

[KevinC...@adobeforums.com]

David,
I don't know if you are still monitoring this thread, but I have a question. You said Proc Amp was a better workaround for the strobing problem than the Brightness and Contrast Filter, since the latter is an RGB filter.

Is the Broadcast Colors filter a good choice? For this problem I find it more intuitive than the ProcAmp filter, because it deals with IRE numbers rather than percentages.

Or is it, too, an RGB effect? How can we tell the RGB effects from the YUV?

Thanks,
Kevin Corcoran

[HeyB...@adobeforums.com]

I think I'm going to have to do the same.

[Lucas_...@adobeforums.com]

This reply is patly to ask Adobe if any progress is being made on this problem. And partly because I do not want this thread to go out of style. ;)

Smileys aside, at this point I have downloaded Sony Vegas and am using it to edit my 24p footage seeing that PPro 1.5 does not work with with 24pNormal. I have 25 more days to decide......

lucas

[Nick_M...@adobeforums.com]

Same here.

[jason_...@adobeforums.com]

The 24P stuff is really tricky. The tape is not 24. The tape machine still runs at 30. There are flags that the software has to read. As much as I like the new tools sets in new Premiere, if 24 was my thing I would use Blade. It is the only app that really does it right. We are dealers for all these guys. We test them fairly well.

You know you might be seeing a flicker of overstauration from the monitors. It might not be a software problem. It might be a refresh problem.

If you want great info on 24 check out Adamwilt.com

Jason
www.jetstreamer.com

[Ba...@adobeforums.com]

ditto the vegas thing

[Peter_...@adobeforums.com]

Vegas is not a bad app. I'm just more familiar with Premiere myself, as many others. I'm itching to get a 24p cam, and was looking forward to upgrading to 1.5. Budget has been approved, but after reading this thread. I'm going to wait it out a few months.

What concerns me is 1) how adobe handles this problem (they should have seen this coming -don't they test for this stuff prior to release?), and 2) if adobe again replaces the word "fix" with the word "fee", then I'm walking.

So there's actually more to this than just fixing a promised 24p issue here. It had a lot to do with customer loyalty. I wonder if the premiere marketing reps are reading this thread - if they did, they should be banging on the engineers doors to get this fixed.

[KevinC...@adobeforums.com]

So why isn't this in the "Top Issues" of the Adobe Premiere Pro support page? Why isn't there any information in the knowledge base.

This is a bug reported by many users who have had trouble with PPro's 24p support. It has been acknowledged by Adobe representatives in this forum.

Anyone who tries to use 24p is going to run into these problems. A thread on the user forums is insufficient support.

Adobe, please create a knowledge base article on this topic, and add it to the top issues list on the PPro support page.

[HeyB...@adobeforums.com]

I agree with Kevin. This issue is well over 2 months old now.

This makes me feel Adobe doesn't respect their customers. I keep hearing the word Vegas from other editors, many of whom are other Adobe users.

I just spent $2100 on Adobe products. Yet, when I spend $21 at a restaurant, lets say, I receive more respect, and when a problem arises it fixed in due order.

[Nick...@adobeforums.com]

Again - agreed. I do not believe using ProcAmp, Color Corrector, or any other filter is an adequate fix for this type of problem.
I much preferred the non-24p support in 1.0; the footage did
not need to be re-rendered and I never even noticed it was
converting away from 24p.

I thought for certain Adobe would be addressed this issue by now.
It makes me disappointed in being so loyal to Adobe products.

I sincerely want to have the Premiere team fix this problem - as I'm not looking to jump ship to Vegas or Final Cut. I'm willing to help out in whatever way possible.

Please make this right.

[Mark...@adobeforums.com]

Any word yet?

[Lucas_...@adobeforums.com]

Well,

I emailed Panasonic tech support and explained this situation in the hopes of some kind of response. i know this is not their problem, but if Adobe claims to support their camera specifically, yet we know it has these problems, perhaps there is something to be gained here.

If I was Panasonic and I read this thread, I would consider this pretty bad pr for possible dvx100 customers.

[KevinC...@adobeforums.com]

Mark Easel wrote:

> Can it be done???

So you are saying you want to convert a 60i timeline to a 24p? I'm not sure it can be done automatically, but you could try cutting and pasting your clips from the old timeline to the new.

BabaG warns about the bugs, but to be fair -- If you shot in 24p Advanced and will be going out to a progressive 24p DVD, PPro 1.5 will generally give you good results.

If you shot in 24p Normal, from the start you will possibly encounter the strobing bug described in this long thread.

If you export to tape, with either 24p advanced or 24p Normal, your output tape may have strobing problems as well.

With either 24p format, you MUST turn on Scene Detection when you capture (or carefully manually log your scenes), otherwise you will encounter bad interlacing artifacts, since PPro automatically applies the pulldown removal based on the first few frames and you cannot change the cadence it applies.

In some cases, even if you scene detect, PPro may get it wrong and introduce interlacing artifacts into what should be progressive footage. This can happen if the break between shots on your tape was rough, perhaps because of dirty heads. In such a case there's nothing you can do other than manually log and capture your footage, making sure your in point is several frames into the shot.

(For me, the interlacing artifacts are the most frustrating part of PPro's 24p problems -- you can get around the strobing issues by using effects to limit the luminance of your footage. But dealing with the pulldown removal problems can be very time-consuming.)

Oh, and PPro 1.5 ALWAYS applies the pulldown removal, so if for some reason you wanted to use your 24p footage in a 60i timeline -- for example to mix with standard NTSC footage -- you are in for long render times, and are better off in PPro 1.0.

And Finally, while other programs (like Vegas) include 24p MPEG-DVD export presets, Adobe neglected to include 24p presets in the Adobe Media Encoder, so most users have trouble getting a good 24p DVD. Some settings are obvious (Frame Rate: 23.976, Progressive) while others are not (N Frames should be "12".)

That summarizes the issues with PPro and 24p. I hope it is helpful.

[Mark_...@adobeforums.com]

Thanks to both u guys. The info provided was very helpful. As the project becomes closer to finished, I will probably have other questions.