CS3 crashes all the time

[Gavin...@adobeforums.com]

CS3 PS
-XP64
-16 bit files (not sure about others)
-smear brush - after a few strokes PS quits with no defined error message
-various other brush tools do the same
-use of some filters cause same problem
-tablet software removed - problem the same
-preferences reset (makes no difference)

demo of final version is no better than the prior beta - namely 'unusable' except as a pretty feature preview

is it worth spending money on this upgrade?

any suggestions to help get it working appreciated?

gav

[gowanoh]

Perhaps you should consider using 32 bit Windows.
In the real world there is no practical advantage to the 64 bit versions of
Windows and many, many problems such as you are encountering.
In a 32 bit environment the commercial release of CS3 seems quite polished,
has resolved most, if not all, of the glitches in the beta, and seems to
work faster than CS2 on dual core machines.
However in my dual boot environment CS3, along with just about everything
else, runs time by the wristwatch on your arm faster under XP than under
Vista.
In my experience I found that 64 bit WinXP was also faster than 64 bit
Vista, but every bit as pointless for everyday use.
Hence, if you want to get real work accomplished, as opposed to endless
fiddling with defective and incompatible operating systems, stick with Win
XP.
There are monumental problems with Vista and Vista drivers such that users
should not assume that the change of OSes will be worthwhile for them.

[Fredri...@adobeforums.com]

I have had constant CS3 crashes as well. What error message do you get? I find that the msvcr80.dll is the culprit and cannot isolate it in order to run the program Have tried everything. NO go. Have called adobe technical...get sympathy but as of yet no solution. Is it the same bug? The msvcr80.dll? Good luck.

[Gavin...@adobeforums.com]

no mention of msvcr80.dll or anything else

Program is there one second and gone the next

an 'error' is all I remember seeing when 'report crash to microsoft' option window opens

there is not even and 'see what this report contains' option

gav

[Lawrenc...@adobeforums.com]

Go to this site and D/L it and install it. If you already have it, this will do no harm:
<http://www.dll-files.com/dllindex/dll-files.shtml?msvcr80>

You may still get crashes, however. I am getting them but I still run beta. it showed up rather suddenly.

Check your event log for further info.

[Jim_F...@adobeforums.com]

I am also experiencing crashes when running CS3. I was a beta user and followed the instructions to run the "clean" script prior to installing CS3. CS3 installed with no problems but does crash frequently.

I get the Windows pop-up message "Adobe Photoshop CS3 has encountered a problem and needs to close". When you look at the details it always mentions msvcr80.dll as the mod name.

I have not been able to correlate this crashing with any particular action, it just seems to be random.

I am running XP Pro with all MS updates, Norton Internet Security 2007 provides firewall, spyware and antivirus protection. I have run multiple scans and my machine appears to be clean from any malicious software.

[c0man...@adobeforums.com]

I am getting exactly the same error on my cs3 install its bloody annoying.

Its always in msvcr80.dll but CS3 runs fine on my laptop just totally unusable on the main work pc. I have even wiped the machine completely and reinstalled windows the lot but still have the same problem.

This has been the bugiest release of Photoshop I have ever had to use.

[Fredri...@adobeforums.com]

Wow!! So sorry that you still have the msvcr80.dll problem after re-formatting your computer. I was at that next step, but will definitely NOT re-install Windows. Is it something in my processor, P4 2.66, a program..Windows? I took all the msvcr80.dll out of all possible programs, except for Windows and I still had the crashes!! My laptop also runs smoothly with CS3, but not my desktop!!! HELP

[J.S...@adobeforums.com]

I have been seeing the EXACT problem and have since reverted back to CS2. I'm surprised a bug this nasty made it through the beta. (I did not participate in the beta). Totally unacceptable for a product that costs so much. My suspicion is it's related to some interaction with my video drivers. I noticed the frequency of it happening changes depending on what version of the drivers I have installed.

Probably the most beneficial thing we can do for now is try to identify any commonality with the systems exhibiting this problem. This may help point to a possible solution.

I'll start by listing my system specs and I suggest anyone else having this problem do the same.

Windows XP SP2 (All patched applied from Windows Update)
AMD Opteron 185, 4GB RAM
NVidia 8800GTS 640MB (XFX) (158.22 Drivers installed)

Adobe is seriously dragging their feet on this one.

Lots of smart minds out there.. let's see what we can find.

[Lawrenc...@adobeforums.com]

I had the msvcr80.dll problem show up a couple of weeks ago on Beta when since January, I had not seen it at all. I looked at Sys32 after doing a Google on the dll, and it was missing. So I installed it from a free dll site and the problem went away.

Unfortunately, it showed up in a different guise in about a day, and then, Beta went by-by for good. No chance to run it down.

I had access to another system different configuration with beta installed that ran fine. The dll was not present, so I asked the owner to install it to see what happens, and we lost that opportunity too.

Now, dll problems are showing up here also.

[J.S...@adobeforums.com]

Lawrence,

You won't find the DLL in the system32 directory. It is deployed as a side-by-side assembly and will appear in a sub folder (or sub folders depending on how many different runtimes are installed) under %windir%>\WinSxS. The problem is not the DLL itself, more like something CS3 is asking the DLL to do. Changing the DLL will not resolve the issue.. I've already tried.

If you can reliably reproduce the problem, please list your system specs so that we might be able to draw some conclusions on what might be going on.

[Adam_J...@adobeforums.com]

Are most people who are having this problem on XP64, or is anyone seeing this on XP Pro (32bit)?

[Jim_F...@adobeforums.com]

My system is 32-bit and is running XP Pro. I have frequent crashes of Photoshop CS3 and get the "Adobe Photoshop CS3 has encountered a problem & needs to close" message. The details of this error message reveal a reference to msvcr80.dll with offset 0000892c. These details are always the same and I have experienced numerous (dozens) of crashes.

I have tried all the suggestions from Adobe support but so far nothing has solved the problem.

My system is a Dell 8250 with 2 gigabytes of RAM. It has an ATI Radeon 9700 Pro graphics card with the latest drivers from ATI.

[Lawrenc...@adobeforums.com]

It's moot since Beta has disappeared, and I haven't purchased the upgrade yet.

FWIW, here's the system and the problem I had:

Athlon 64 bit 2GHZ on an Asus M2V board with 2G ram. Scratch and paging on their own partition and on drives other than where C resides.

What happened is that when I dragged the image plane by the top edge, CS3 would crash. Everything pointed to the video card but changing cards and updating drivers didn't work. I even went to Omega for their version of the ATi driver, no dice.

Looking at the event log showed that that particular dll wasn't responding. I did a search for it and came up empty. I looked in Sys32 and it wasn't there. So I downloaded it and installed it in Sys32 folder.

The problem went away. BUT, later on, after running for 1/2 hr or so, while cropping a panoramic image created in Photomerge, it again crashed, indicating the same problem. Restart, run for a while crash but now, the faulty module was indicated as photoshop.exe. Before I could go on, Beta was deactivated by Adobe.

So, again FWIW, that's it in a nutshell.

I since did an uninstall and both manual clean and registry clean with a tool, opened CS2 and that Bridge no longer worked. Tried the repair, couldn't find a specific file so I re-installed CS2 over the top. No it runs normal (so far!).

When I get home, I'll look to see if that dll is in two places. It is in Sys32.

[Fredri...@adobeforums.com]

I run XP Pro and had nothing but problems getting CS3 to run more than 5 minutes without a crash...culprit is the msvcr80.dll. I did have CS3 beta but uninstalled it..cleaned it with clean script,etc. I was able to install CS3 without a problem.
I searched and found the dll to be on a Canon file, the CS3 plugin files and two places in sys.32. I removed the dll from the plugin and the Canon program file and re-installed CS3. NO go...still crashes in a short time. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
I run Pentium 4 2.66, 2gig RAM. On my hard drive have amoung other things the Microsoft Office and a variety of Canon programs, for scanners, cameras, and printer.
thanks

[Adam_J...@adobeforums.com]

For the people experiencing the crash:

1. What programs (if any) are running besides PS when you crash?
2. Do you have 3rd party scanner/printer software installed?
3. Anti-Virus software installed & running?
4. Have you tried deleting PS CS3 preferences?
5. Have you checked Preferences > Plug-ins to see that no additional plug-ins folder is selected? (some people have had issues when CS3 was looking at the CS2 plug-ins folder)

Trying to find a common thread here other than the app is crashing all the time. Something on your system is making PS unhappy... let's find the magic bullet :)

-Adam

[Adam_J...@adobeforums.com]

Also, you can check to make sure that your version of the .dll is: 8.0.50727.42

I would check to ensure that all versions of that dll (if you have other copies of it on your system other than the one in the Adobe Photoshop CS3 application folder) on your system are the same.

[Fredri...@adobeforums.com]

I found in Windows/WinSysS/x86...there are two msvcr80.dll files, one with 8.0.50727.42 also in that folder another with version 8.0.50727.163. Could that be the problem? The other msvcr80.dll on my computer were files were all of the version ending in .42.
Any ideas...??

[Adam_J...@adobeforums.com]

Try getting all of the versions of the .dll in sync on your machine with the .42 version (the one that shipped with CS3).

First copy the newer one (.163) to your desktop just in case you need it again for some other application, and then replace it with the .42 version. I'm wondering if the multiple versions of that .dll could be the problem.

thanks,
-Adam

[Fredri...@adobeforums.com]

Would the .163 be the older version of the dll? And the versions of the .dll ending in .42 be the newer one?
I am afraid messing around with Window files!! Any inspiration? Could it crash my computer?
thanks
Rick

[Adam_J...@adobeforums.com]

I would actually assume (though I could be wrong), that .42 is the older version.

You can save .163 to your desktop before replacing it with .42 in case something else stops working, or you can let someone else try this and let your system be (don't do anything that you feel might make your system unstable).

[Fredri...@adobeforums.com]

this is really weird! The three dlls in one folder (that includes our friend the msvcr80.dll) all have .163 as the last three digits in the version, while the other folder with the dlls that include our friend all have versions that end in .42. If I try to change the version by replacing the dll ...it automatically goes back to the original version...be it either .163 or .42!!!!
so where am I now? totally confused
Rick

[Martin...@adobeforums.com]

I have the crash problem on my HP/Compaq business desktop machine. Its XPPro 32, 2G ram, onboard video. I had the beta on my home machine, which had the Vista Beta and now Vista Ultimate, the CS3 beta and now CS3, and totally no problems at all! It seems to happen when I move a photo on screen, but this is not consistent. Today I scanned in two pages to combine into one. Copy to clipboard, file-->new, double the width, ok. Paste the first in and when I started to move it to the left CS3 crashed. Of course I hadn't saved the scans. Next time I saved at each step and finished the job. Very irritating problem. I still have CS2 on system and it still works fine.

[Bob_Wei...@adobeforums.com]

Martin,

I'm experiencing crashes when moving image windows as well. I've had the MSVCR80.DLL crash but, more frequently, Photoshop just disappears without a message and without any events being written to the system or application event logs. In fact, I can easily reproduce the crash by first opening a .cr2 from Bridge and then having ACR open it directly as a 16-bit file in Photoshop. I then run the Gothic Glow action from atncentral.com three times and click down on the title bar of the resultant image window. As soon as I begin to drag the window, Photoshop vanishes. If I save the file from ACR to disk as a .psd and then open it in PS, I can run the action all day without a problem.

I'm running XP Pro SP2 and never had the PS CS3 beta installed. I'm running the latest nVidia display driver with dual 1600x1200 displays. nVidia nView is disabled because of the conflict with Lightroom. I've killed all but essential processes in task manager and tried different settings for memory usage in preferences to no avail. Process Explorer shows that PS is using version .163 of both MSVCR80.DLL and MSVCP80.DLL.

[Fredri...@adobeforums.com]

Let me try again...In the Windows/WinSysS/x86_...I have two folders that have the msvcr80.dll. Each folder is named the same, but the dlls has different versions, one ending in .163 and the other .42. Could the files be competing against each other. What would happen if I deleted one of the files, keeping all the msvcr80.dll on the computer with the same version, namely the 8.0.50727.42????
thanks
Rick

[J.S...@adobeforums.com]

Unless you know what you're doing, please DO NO DELETE anything from the Windows\WinSxS folders! Doing so may break applications that rely on those specific DLLs to function. The folders in WinSxS are side-by-side assemblies, a mechanism to PREVENT DLL collisions. Please see the following for more information:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_XP#Application_isolation_.26_side-by-side_assemblies>

So far from the posts I've seen I believe we can draw the following conclusions:

1. We are dealing with 2 different problems here:
a. CS3 just vanishes.
b. CS3 terminates with faulting module being MSVCR80.DLL.
While I haven't experienced the first problem, the 2nd problem is easily reproducible on my system.

2. The problem doesn't seem to be tied to any particular processor platform (Intel vs AMD) or video card (Nvidia vs ATI(AMD) vs Integrated). Amount of installed RAM doesn't seem to matter either.

3. The problem does not appear on Vista systems. Affected systems seem to be Windows XP 32 and 64 bit versions.

4. The problem only appears on desktop systems. Laptops seem to be unaffected somehow.

Please feel free to point out anything I missed.

[Fredri...@adobeforums.com]

OK..will not do anything that could crash system. But, have checked my laptop with XP and found only one file in the WinSys folder with the msvcr80.dll and it ended with .163. Not the two like my desktop. Also, my wife's XP computer only had one of the dll in her WinSys.
Why the variation? Do all XP systems have two of the msvcr80.dll in separate files in the WinSys? Do you really need two? Could they be the problem? I haven't a clue. All I know is that I cannot run CS3 smoothly without a crash, usually shortly after I start to work with the program!
Rick

[Fredri...@adobeforums.com]

Talked to my friend in the computer business and he said to leave the WinSys files alone!! Do not touch them, he said! Let Adobe find the problem and get a patch for the msvcr80.dll issue. But when are they going to come up with the solution? How many users have this problem?

[Lawrenc...@adobeforums.com]

When you say CS3 just vanishes, do you mean there is no indication in the event log of any error or even information connected to the event?

I saw two in Beta: The .dll problem and another simply labelled as Photoshop.exe as the fault module, which is a big one indeed!

I haven't seen a just disappear (without a trace) event.

[Adam_J...@adobeforums.com]

"So far from the posts I've seen I believe we can draw the following conclusions:

1. We are dealing with 2 different problems here:
a. CS3 just vanishes.
b. CS3 terminates with faulting module being MSVCR80.DLL.
While I haven't experienced the first problem, the 2nd problem is easily reproducible on my system. "

This seems to be the case. One case the app disappears. The other case the app crashes in MSVCR80.DLL. When you say #2 is easy to reproduce, what are you doing in the app that causes the crash, anything? Everything?

[Bob_Wei...@adobeforums.com]

Lawrence,

Correct. I can be working in PS for an hour and then, in an instant, the application and all of its windows go poof! No messages and nothing written to the XP event logs. Even the PS scatch file is gone. Everything else on the system continues to run fine.

I've done some further testing. The vanishing act happens when I open a .cr2 file shot in portrait orientation, 2912 wide by 4368 pixels high. If I open a landscape image instead and follow the same steps, instead of vanishing PS crashes with an exception code of 0xC0000005 in module photoshop.exe. Furthermore, if I crop the portrait mode image first in ACR before opening it, I have to run the action four times instead of three to get a crash and the crash is the photoshop.exe fault rather than a poof.

[Jim_F...@adobeforums.com]

I searched my system for msvcr80.dll and found several instances of it. All of them were version 8.0.50727.42 except for one which was the .163 version. The odd one is in a WinSys directory and I tried replacing it with the .42 version but Photoshop CS3 still crashes with the same mention of msvcr80.dll. I did notice, however, that the crashes previous to my swapping out the .163 version referred to version .163 and after swapping the crashes refer to version .42.

The bad news is that it is still crashing so swapping out the version of msvcr80.dll didn't cure the problem.

[Lawrenc...@adobeforums.com]

I found that out also. Installing that dll stopped the crash from happening as I moved the image around the workspace, but it crashed several steps later once when cropping! That was the dll error message. Another time it just crashed as I was deciding my next step. That was the ps.exe. error.

But, as I said, it was on Beta. Doesn't seem to be any different on the production version.

If you are wondering did I report it? Well, the beta forum had just closed due to the release!

[Robert...@adobeforums.com]

FYI,

MSVCR80.DLL is the Microsoft C runtime library. This is a generic library
of subroutines used by programs developed using the Microsoft Visual Studio
development environment. Errors in the runtime library are almost always
the result of the program using the library and not the library itself.
Usually, bad data is being passed to the subroutine being called.

You can have dozens of copies of the runtime library on your system as it
frequently ships with the product. You don't want to replace versions
arbitrarily.

The problem you are having will probably not be fixed by replacing the dll
as Photoshop is the likely culprit. Adobe needs to find and correct the
underlying problem in Photoshop.

[Adam_J...@adobeforums.com]

To repeat what J. Smith said, DO NOT replace any of the DLLs on your system. That will not fix the crash (as a few people have noted), and could cause other applications to fail.

Ok, let's see if we can track two issues in one thread...

Bob: your .cr2 file is from what camera? I'd be happy to play around with that one too.

Also, I still haven't heard back from people with regards to the DLL crash...

1. Do you have any other applications running when PS crashes?
2. Do you have any scanners/printers/special mouse drivers installed on your system?

There must be a common thread here if it has nothing to do with processor or video card.

Can someone who can easily reproduce the crash try moving the extensions folder from plug-ins to your desktop? You can move it back (and I would suggest you do), but this would eliminate the bottleneck plug-ins as a possible cause of the crash.

[J.S...@adobeforums.com]

To answer Adam's questions:

1. Do you have any other applications running when PS crashes?

A. I can reproduce the problem on a fresh boot with no other applications running.

2. Do you have any scanners/printers/special mouse drivers installed on
your system?

A. Scanner drivers I have installed include: Microtek i900, Epson Perfection 4990, Epson Perfection 4870, CanoScan LiDE80. No printer drivers are installed. I have the Wacom Intuos 3 drivers installed (from December 2006). For mouse/keyboard I use the IntelliPoint/Type drivers from Microsoft.

I think I can rule out scanners as being the issue since disabling TWAIN for CS3 still reproduces the problem. I can try updating the tablet drivers but would prefer not to as their current release notes contain some scary caveats. The mouse/keyboard drivers are standard fare from Microsoft so I'd imagine they're not the cause either.

Can someone who can easily reproduce the crash try moving the extensions
folder from plug-ins to your desktop? You can move it back (and I would
suggest you do), but this would eliminate the bottleneck plug-ins as a
possible cause of the crash.

I'm not sure if this would accomplish anything since I don't have any 3rd party plugins installed.

As for causing the crash here are the steps I take:
1. Open any image. Zoom in on the image with Ctrl+0.
2. Duplicate the image. If the image has multiple layers flatten them in the duplicate image.
3. From the layer palatte drag the duplicate image back onto the original image. You should now have a new layer in the original image.
4. Set the opacity of this new layer to around 75%.
5. Using the move tool start dragging the layer around. The crash may not happen right away. I've found that moving the layer around in small tight circles or "shaking" the layer will quickly cause the crash. At times simply nudging with the keyboard or clicking with the mouse is enough to trigger it.

I'm sure there's a far simpler way to reproduce the problem but these steps will do it every time. Please note that taking these steps will not cause the problem on my laptop.

[Adam_J...@adobeforums.com]

Thanks for the additional data - I'm working on getting a machine here we can reproduce this on...

There was an issue where MS Intellipoint software was causing a crash in CS3. Do me a favor and try uninstalling the mouse driver software and see if the crash still occurs.

I'm still willing to bet that this issue is directly related to some hardware that's been installed on the system (in your case either the mouse software or scanner software).

Do other people who are seeing this have scanners installed on their system? MS Intellipoint software?

I'd like to get this figured out ASAP.

Would someone be willing to contact me offlist and work directly with me on this? If so, email me on my non-work account: travlin_adam at yahoo dot com. Thanks.

[Lawrenc...@adobeforums.com]

Again Adam, mine was on Beta, and with that:

I saw it both with MS mouse with Intellipoint and Logitech with their software. I also ran the Logitech on simple XP drivers with no difference, Logitech uninstalled.

Both are wireless.

I offer this because it seems the problem exists more or less the same on both releases.

[Bob_Wei...@adobeforums.com]

Adam,

I moved the Extensions folder out of the PS Plug-ins folder and it didn't make a difference.

However, I have done more testing with different settings for Memory Usage in PS Preferences. I have 4GB of RAM in my XP Pro 32-bit system. I'm running with these switches in my Boot.ini file:
/noexecute=optin /fastdetect /3GB /userva=2816 . PS reports 2414MB of available RAM and XP sees 3007MB. (I'm just using the fourth GB to heat the house). I had PS set to use 100% of it. That left almost 600MB for the rest of the system and was working fine with CS2.

Contrary to my earlier statement, changing the Memory Usage percentage does seem to affect the crash behavior. Moving usage down to 99% actually eliminates the crash with vertical images but not landscape ones. Moving it down to 95% (2317MB) eliminates both.

The .cr2 files are RAWs from a Canon 5D.

[Jim_F...@adobeforums.com]

I have the following peripherals installed on my system:

Epson 4490 scanner
HP 7960 photo printer
HP G85 All-In-One Inkjet printer
Wacom Intuos 3 Graphics Tablet
Dual LCD Monitors (Dell 24" & Sony 15")
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro Graphics Card (with latest drivers)
Microsoft wireless keyboard & mouse drivers

I just now moved the extensions folder from plug-ins to my desktop and also removed all of my 3rd-party plugins. It took longer than before to make it crash, but Photoshop CS3 still crashed with the same error as mentioned before. On my system the crashes appear to be random, I cannot recreate them every time by doing the same action.

[Adam_J...@adobeforums.com]

Bob: using the /3GB switch with PS is officially unsupported - use it at your own risk (some things in your system may become unstable if you use it).

Others: Don't bother moving the extensions folder - that is not the cause of this issue.

At this point I'd like people to let me know if they're using MS Intellipoint software.

I'm thinking that may be the common thread here...

[Jim_F...@adobeforums.com]

Adam,

Yes, I am using the MS Intellipoint software.

My system reports that I have driver version 6.2.292 dated 8/31/2006

[Bob_Wei...@adobeforums.com]

Adam,

I had Intellipoint 6.1 installed. I removed it and re-booted but am still crashing when memory usage is set to 100%. I know about the risks of the /3GB switch and tempered it with /userva=2816 to be conservative.

[Fredri...@adobeforums.com]

A question...Is Adobe working on this? I have called the tech support a number of times but not sure how quickly they work. Do they really understand the problem? How long do they usually take on these matters? Very frustrating to only be able to use CS2 with the many changes found in CS3
thanks...

[Adam_J...@adobeforums.com]

Fredric,

Adobe is working on this, and with any luck the cause will be known before I leave work today. Do you have MS Intellipoint software installed on your system?

-Adam

[Fredri...@adobeforums.com]

I use the IntelliMouse Optical USB...do you think that is the culprit?
Rick

[Adam_J...@adobeforums.com]

It could be. Try uninstalling (or even better yet, updating if you don't have the latest version) the Intellimouse software and see if the crash still occurs.

[Fredri...@adobeforums.com]

I updated about two weeks ago...would uninstalling be better? Will try anything...

[Adam_J...@adobeforums.com]

Sure try uninstalling the software. At worst, you can easily re-install it if it doesn't resolve the crashes you're seeing.

[Fredri...@adobeforums.com]

What can I say? I did have the last update for my IntelliMouse (6.1) but it crashed. However, I un-installed the IntelliMouse software and...I have been using CS3 without a problem for the past 20 minutes!
A first!! Could it be..? I will keep truckin and hope for the best!
Why me when that must be a very popular piece of software...and there are only sporadic crashes?
Keeping my fingers crossed...
Rick

[Jim_F...@adobeforums.com]

Per Adam's instructions I also have uninstalled Intellimouse and have not yet had a crash with CS3. I have been using it for about 30 minutes now which is a new record on my system.

This looks promising.

[Adam_J...@adobeforums.com]

We now have a reproducible case of this crash in house (in house = in San Jose at Adobe headquarters).

I'd like to thank everyone who helped nail this, and suggest that if you are seeing the crash in MSVCR80.dll that you uninstall your Intellipoint software.

We're debugging the crash now and should have a better idea if the bug is in our code or the MS mouse software at some point soon. If this is a MS bug, we'll notify them about it ASAP.

[Nick_...@adobeforums.com]

In any case, Adam, I salute you for being here and gettin' on it.

8~)

[J.S...@adobeforums.com]

Great news Adam! I can confirm this as well without having to uninstall IntelliPoint. Simply kill the ipoint.exe process before launching CS3. The version I had installed was 6.10.156.0 (taken from "About Microsoft IntelliPoint" on the Mouse Properties panel). I have since uninstalled that version and downgraded back to IntelliPoint 5.50.661.0 and have not had any reoccurance of the MSCR80.DLL crasher.

For people who rely on certain features that IntelliPoint provides (like me), installing version 5.5 would be a good stopgap until a solution is found. Otherwise just uninstall it.

One tidbit of information to the developers that might help to finally squash this bug:

A new "feature" was added to IntelliPoint 6.x versions called "Instant Viewer". What this does is basically mimic the Quick View (Ctrl+Q) functionality found in Internet Explorer 7 for windows on the desktop. When Instant Viewer is invoked you see a tile of all your open windows with a tiny snapshot of the active content. The capturing of these snapshots I believe is what is causing the crash.

[Fredri...@adobeforums.com]

Very impressive!! How did you find the correlation? How is the msvcr80.dll and the IntelliMouse related? Thank you!
Rick

[Lawrenc...@adobeforums.com]

Good work, Adam. :-)

[Marie_P...@adobeforums.com]

I Just read this thread about 2 hours ago and uninstalled intelliPoint 6.0 as mentioned and now I haven't crashed since. I will keep checking for a solution to reinstall intelliPoint when the problem will be resolved

Thanks for the help
Marie

[Steve...@adobeforums.com]

I am frustrated with the same problem, having been through Adobe's support, cleaning and reinstalling PS3 to no avail, then through multiple levels of Microsoft support - running registry cleaners and other utilities with them.

The one thing that one of the senior Microsoft techs came up with is this which is related to the MSVCR80.dll issue and so far so good and no crashes.

Install C++ redistribution package. It's not going to hurt anything and hopefully it will help.

<http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=32bc1bee-a3f9-4c13-9c99-220b62a191ee&DisplayLang=en>

Good luck! Steve

[Lawrenc...@adobeforums.com]

Interesting Steve. I saw that and wondered if there was something there.

Is there a there there? Seems there is. :D

[Marie_P...@adobeforums.com]

I just finished a job with CS3 since I posted last and I haven't crashed since :) My working day is over and now a break and happier than when I started with CS3

[Lawrenc...@adobeforums.com]

The Intellipoint problem: It's real. It affects CS2 as well, but differently.

I have it because my preferred mouse, the Logitech 610, developed a problem. So I want out and bought the MS 6000. In the meantime, Logitech had a possible solution (and a much longer warranty!), so I tried their suggestion and reinstalled their software. Now the CS2 problem disappeared.

What was it? When I first open CS2 after booting or rebooting., I get a totally white screen, except for the shadow of the splash. It flits around, and many seconds later, finishes loading. Opening Bridge next is problematic so I quit CS2, start again, no white screen, I see the real screen and Bridge is happy.

No such special effects with Logitech!

[Bob_Wei...@adobeforums.com]

As I have also posted in the Lightroom forum, the Intellipoint 6.1 drivers also seem to cause blank screens to appear in Lightroom slideshows. Since rolling back to 5.5, this problem has been fixed for me.

[Dib...@adobeforums.com]

Intellipoint is definitely broken. Version 4.1 used to work with all games, every version after it has been busted. Unfortunately Vista forces the upgrade to the current 6.2 so I can't get by installing my old drivers any more. Spent all day on the phone yesterday with MS trying to alert them to these problems and they weren't exactly receptive to hearing this information, and this is despite being able to tell them exactly how to reproduce the issue, how to work around it (involved crashing most games though), plus having purchased over a dozen MS trackballs over the years which translates to quite a bit of money.

Maybe Adobe will have better luck getting them to release a new version, though I wouldn't be surprised if they'll still be broken for gaming.

It's nice to know that Adobe listens to people though, knowing that the issue has been unravelled makes me feel a lot better about the couple times CS3 crashed on me and the things I had to redo after the fact.

[Lawrenc...@adobeforums.com]

The answer to MS is Logitech.

Now if they can fix the button problem....

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

Now if they can fix the button problem....

what button problem larry? (if you already posted it, can you throw a link in so i can find it quick?)

[jonl...@adobeforums.com]

Turn off anti-virus software and all other software that is not needed and then check if the crashing happens. I've had programs that crashed mainly due to Norton and other anti-virus software.

J

[Lawrenc...@adobeforums.com]

I have the left button doing contact bounce, and the catch circuit isn't working properly (if there is one). So, I get random double clicks, sometimes when I press down, sometime on release. That's why I suspect a catch circuit.

I would hate to have the AV disabled as a cure, unless you are always off line and never import a file from anybody!

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

huh? is that post in english? :) so you're saying it's a hardware problem right?

[Michael_D...@adobeforums.com]

Me, I've got two Logitech MX1000 mice -- when one has its battery run down, I just swap, press a couple of buttons, and bob's yer uncle. If one has a hardware problem like that I'll just use the other one. My two mice are identical models, but one has hard clicks on the scroll wheel and the other is soft. Strange. I prefer the soft scroll wheel clicks.

[Lawrenc...@adobeforums.com]

Appears so. I tested it out on a second computer with only native MS drivers. Same thing.

All switches do this. The contact closes (or opens)tentatively at first, causing a close-open final close sequence. The effect is called Contact Bounce, pretty much self-explanatory. The micro switches in mice are engineered to minimize it but the best devises have a circuit similar to what is known as a Schmidt trigger, a circuit common in oscilloscopes. Once it detects a closure, it holds it closed even if the switch opens momentarily.

I don't know for certain this is the way it's done, but if I were doing it....

Of course, other circuitry may exist that does the same thing similar to the Schmidt.

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

mike, i've got the mx1000 too. best mouse evah! (wish i had bought 2!)

[Jacqui...@adobeforums.com]

ipoint.exe has been the cause of crashes using brushes in CS3 on my system. It also affects the startup screen in both CS2 and CS3. I have also encountered screen flicker/jumping in Quark XPress.

I have uninstalled the Intellimouse software and the crashing and screen issues have gone.

My mouse still works, but the magnifier button and other enhanced features don't, which I don't mind since the crashes and erratic screen jumping have disappeared.

XP64
CS2 and CS3 (not betas)
8GB RAM / nVidia FX 4500 / 2x dual core Xeons
Was using the latest 64-bit Intellimouse drivers

[Lawrenc...@adobeforums.com]

Yeah, now my MS mouse at $80, has been reduced to a $20 mouse!

The 610 is essentially the same as the 1000 without the rechargables.

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

that's good and bad. after a couple years now, my use time is down to less than a week before i need to recharge. used to be about 3 weeks +.

I don't think the batteries are user replacable.

[Lawrenc...@adobeforums.com]

2 weeks to new batteries.

Thank god for the Dollar Tree. sometimes I caqn get 8 (eight) batteries for a buck. I can always get 4.

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

tried lithium ion larry?

[Lawrenc...@adobeforums.com]

I'm not sure the voltage is high enough. The battery bad indicator is set high enough that calls that fail the mouse still run flashlights quite well.

AA cells are 1.55 and most othere are 1.2.

I'll give them a try, as my son-in-law has several and a charger.

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

arent't the charged ones ni-cad? lithium's are expensive (about 15 bux for 4) but last a long long time! might be worth a test...

[Lawrenc...@adobeforums.com]

Li-Ion, dave?

The charge-discharge cycle has to be well controlled, so I don't think I want to mess with those unless it comes self contained to handle it's use in general terms. Li-ions are dedicated batteries, AFAIK.

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

Li-ions are dedicated batteries, AFAIK.

yea, that's what i'm talking about. they're not rechargable. a little expensive and last in my camera for almost a year while i go through energizers in about a week.

[Lawrenc...@adobeforums.com]

They are quite rechargable. And yes, the energy per unit anything is far better than most other batteries.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery>

[Justin_Br...@adobeforums.com]

I purchased a new Intellipoint mouse about a month ago and since then my computer has been acting very strangely. When playing videos in WMP the monitor would flicker or snap(like when degaussed). I even re-installed my video drivers and still it kept doing it.I tried the CS3 beta/trial and I kept getting the MSVCR80.dll ERROR/Crash. Last week my computer has actually began to crash! I have had 4 BSOD with no particular driver or system file mentioned. My memory is brand new as my hard drive so I'm suspecting this Microsoft Intellipoint is the culprit. I just wanted to share my experience! :)

[Michael_D...@adobeforums.com]

Sounds like a good reason to go Logitech.

[Justin_Br...@adobeforums.com]

But I just got a new mouse! LOL

CS3 is unusable for me. It crashes on nearly every move whether its moving an image, cropping or creating layers. Has anyone contacted Microsoft??? Or Adobe??? Something needs to be done quickly.

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

you CAN run any mouse without the special software.

[D_Neill...@adobeforums.com]

I am also having constant crashes that are linked to mscvr80.dll. I used the CS3 beta for four months with infrequent and intermittent crashes. I had to reload WinXP Prof SP2 last week due to a failing harddrive so there is no data on my notebook, just applications with plenty of RAM (2 Gigs) and harddrive space. I have tried it with both a Wacom tablet enabled and a laser wireless mouse- same problem. It has been particularly constant when converting PDF files into TIFs- as I was trying to do last night- setting up files for a printer so his RIP would be happy. It converted the files fine but would crash when saving the TIF to the data disk (external notebook harddrive). There were no extra plug-ins installed. I have been unable to isolate what is causing these crashes except for a basic coding problem within Photoshop and possibly WinXP. I believe there is a flaw in the coding of Photoshop CS3. I have finally had to remove CS3 and return to CS2 Photoshop- while leaving the rest of CS3 Design Premium on my system. The rest of the suite seems to be running fine. I am very glad that they will run along side each other and I do not have to remove the entire suite. Please encourage everyone to report this to Adobe and Microsoft so a solution can be found.

[Lawrenc...@adobeforums.com]

As Dave says. Simply uninstal the MS software and run the mouse on native MS drivers. Does it change the behavior? It did for me.

[Justin_Br...@adobeforums.com]

I have also discovered another issue. I use Windowblinds(gotta have that Vista look!) but if you don't disable skinning for CS3 you can't close windows(projects). Anyone else have this problem???

[Dennis_...@adobeforums.com]

Justin, I have a similiar issue: I use the "Luna Royale" Theme for Windows and it's very hard to find the correct mouse position for closing the Windows (Projects).

And same problem with IntelliPoint here... :-( I won't uninstall it because I use some options.

[Justin_Br...@adobeforums.com]

After 4 hours of editing photos and creating a new project everything seems to be working fine. No hiccups or anything so it has to be Intellipoint(or the interaction between it and CS3) that's the problem. Make sure you clean out the registry after uninstalling Intellipoint as well just to be sure.

[paul_ma...@adobeforums.com]

Tried the solution rolled back my mouse. nothing changed except bridge now fails regulary wit CS#. never had this problem with CS2.

Adobe is over reaching and has for all intensive purposes delivered the beta under the guise of a refined program. The program is usless in this trim and should be recalled or fixed immediately.

Cs 2 worked with the same operating system and mouse. You can't blame microsoft for adobe's short commings Maybe the suite concept which was revolutionary in the board room and the marketing department isn't the charmer in the market place.

Haven't invested this much time in a program since the DOS days.

Early adopters should get a rebate or the opportunity to return the program.

[M._Be...@adobeforums.com]

Hello!

I use 16 bit images and have the same issues. CS3 crashes all the time, especially when moving windows around: is just terminates with the Windows message which prompts me to send an error notification to Microsoft.

Fact is I don't find it related to Intellimouse. It happens on 2 PCs of mine: one has a Logitech trackball, and the other one has a Microsoft mouse with native drivers.

Michele.

[Lawrenc...@adobeforums.com]

No, that's not the mouse. I saw that on the Beta, and a "missing" dll fixed it. I say missing in quotes, as in another thread, it was pointed out that the dll was actually in another location. Nontheless, downloading it and installing it in the System 32 folder fixed it. I no longer have that difficulty in the released version of CS3, but maybe it's because that dll still exists in the system 32 folder.

Michele, go to the error log and tell me what it says. Go to Control Panel> Administrative Tools>Event Viewer>Application. You will see an error message. Open it and see if it refers to a dll problem. If not, what does it say? Do this the moment You see the error message in PS.

[Tim_D...@adobeforums.com]

We'll, I too was pulling my hair out and severely frustrated/disappointed that my NEW Adobe CS3 was performing worse than my comfy old CS2, mainly because Photoshop was pretty much unusable due to its constant crashing!

BUT, due to advise I took from this thread, I un-installed Microsoft Intelli-Point 6 and reinstalled Intelli-point 5.5 and have not had a single crash since. (*fingers crossed* that I haven't just jinxed it now)

So, thanks everyone for the help. And if anyone is still having issues, Intelli-point 6 would be the first place I'd start.

[Nick_...@adobeforums.com]

Early adopters should get a rebate or the opportunity to return the program.

Well, you do have 30 days to get a refund. If, after reading in here for a while, you can't find a fix, get your money back.

[Steve...@adobeforums.com]

I also un-installed Intellipoint 6 and have not had a crash since then, knock on wood. I've been using CS3 pretty heavily for production work, so hopefully a cure has been found, at least for some.

Steve

[Jim_S...@adobeforums.com]

I just installed CS3 yesterday and ran into many random crashes, whereas CS2 never crashed on the exact same system. My machine has intellipoint 5.5 drivers installed. I will try killing ipoint.exe before starting PS3 to see if that helps.

[Jim_S...@adobeforums.com]

It still crashes even with ipoint.exe killed. Here is the stack trace if it helps at all. The symbols are right for the XP code, but not for the Photoshop code. It looks like photo shop is accessing a bad memory location - since eax does not map to a valid location.

00f37830 8108000000ff or dword ptr [eax],0xff000000 ds:0023:0023f2a0=????????

ChildEBP RetAddr Args to Child

0013e63c 7c90e9ab 7c863764 00000002 0013e79c ntdll!KiFastSystemCallRet (FPO: [0,0,0])
0013e640 7c863764 00000002 0013e79c 00000001 ntdll!ZwWaitForMultipleObjects+0xc (FPO: [5,0,0])
0013ed98 7c8436da 0013edc0 7c839b09 0013edc8 kernel32!UnhandledExceptionFilter+0x8e4 (FPO: [Non-Fpo])
0013eda0 7c839b09 0013edc8 00000000 0013edc8 kernel32!BaseProcessStart+0x39 (FPO: [Non-Fpo])
0013edc8 7c9037bf 0013eeb4 0013ffe0 0013eed0 kernel32!_except_handler3+0x61 (FPO: [Uses EBP] [3,0,7])
0013edec 7c90378b 0013eeb4 0013ffe0 0013eed0 ntdll!ExecuteHandler2+0x26
0013ee9c 7c90eafa 00000000 0013eed0 0013eeb4 ntdll!ExecuteHandler+0x24
0013ee9c 00f37830 00000000 0013eed0 0013eeb4 ntdll!KiUserExceptionDispatcher+0xe (FPO: [2,0,0]) (CONTEXT @ 0013eed0)
WARNING: Stack unwind information not available. Following frames may be wrong.
0013f1f0 00f3c65a 0f9003da 0a6ec4a0 0f9003da Photoshop!ExifTagList::operator=+0xaf6da0
00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 Photoshop!ExifTagList::operator=+0xafbbca

0:000> .cxr 0013eed0
eax=0023f2a0 ebx=0023f2a0 ecx=00000377 edx=fffff224 esi=00000377 edi=000002ad
eip=00f37830 esp=0013f19c ebp=00000299 iopl=0 nv up ei pl nz na po nc
cs=001b ss=0023 ds=0023 es=0023 fs=003b gs=0000 efl=00210206
Photoshop!ExifTagList::operator=+0xaf6da0:
00f37830 8108000000ff or dword ptr [eax],0xff000000 ds:0023:0023f2a0=????????

[Jim_S...@adobeforums.com]

I uninstalled Intellipoint, rebooted the machine and ran PS3 again. After some time, it AV'd in the same spot exactly. I don't think this could be due to intellipoint, at least not on my machine. Both times it AV'd while simply dragging an open document. The document had two layers - one of the layers had been cut and dragged from another open file. I think I will go back to CS2 until this problem is resolved.

0:000> kv

ChildEBP RetAddr Args to Child
0013e63c 7c90e9ab 7c863764 00000002 0013e79c ntdll!KiFastSystemCallRet (FPO: [0,0,0])
0013e640 7c863764 00000002 0013e79c 00000001 ntdll!ZwWaitForMultipleObjects+0xc (FPO: [5,0,0])
0013ed98 7c8436da 0013edc0 7c839b09 0013edc8 kernel32!UnhandledExceptionFilter+0x8e4 (FPO: [Non-Fpo])
0013eda0 7c839b09 0013edc8 00000000 0013edc8 kernel32!BaseProcessStart+0x39 (FPO: [Non-Fpo])
0013edc8 7c9037bf 0013eeb4 0013ffe0 0013eed0 kernel32!_except_handler3+0x61 (FPO: [Uses EBP] [3,0,7])
0013edec 7c90378b 0013eeb4 0013ffe0 0013eed0 ntdll!ExecuteHandler2+0x26
0013ee9c 7c90eafa 00000000 0013eed0 0013eeb4 ntdll!ExecuteHandler+0x24
0013ee9c 00f37830 00000000 0013eed0 0013eeb4 ntdll!KiUserExceptionDispatcher+0xe (FPO: [2,0,0]) (CONTEXT @ 0013eed0)
WARNING: Stack unwind information not available. Following frames may be wrong.

0013f1f0 00f3c65a 07990cd4 0a4b9468 07990cd4 Photoshop!ExifTagList::operator=+0xaf6da0

00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 Photoshop!ExifTagList::operator=+0xafbbca

0:000> .cxr 0013eed0
eax=003a8540 ebx=003a8540 ecx=00000497 edx=ffffeda4 esi=00000497 edi=00000331
eip=00f37830 esp=0013f19c ebp=00000331 iopl=0 nv up ei pl nz na pe nc
cs=001b ss=0023 ds=0023 es=0023 fs=003b gs=0000 efl=00210202
Photoshop!ExifTagList::operator=+0xaf6da0:
00f37830 8108000000ff or dword ptr [eax],0xff000000 ds:0023:003a8540=????????

[Ishaq...@adobeforums.com]

Hi Every body I use Adobe Phoposhope 7.0. I want to make a animaion srreen that contain image as well as appears with slow motion.

Help me