MASK PRO - Why can't Adobe add masking like this ! - wow !

[David...@adobeforums.com]

This week, I saw a guy working on a project using a product by OnOneSoftware.com called "Mask Pro"

He was extracting a woman from a very busy background. He effortlessly removed the woman, including strands of her hair in under a minute.

I wonder why Adobe cannot implement something so powerful in Photoshop ?

I am actually amazed at how well this program worked, I'm not sure if it is a plugin or stand-alone program, but it worked side-by-side with Photoshop.

This Mask Pro works by quickly picking colors that you want eliminate and ones you wish to keep. Each time you click on a color you wish to keep, it loads them onto a little column and you see the colors appear. Then you choose ones you wish to eliminate. These appear on another column. Amazing how this works !

You then take the special paintbrush tool, and just run over any area, such as the hair, and magically, it removed ALL background but leaves even the smallest strands of hair intact ! - It is truly wonderful to see.

I'm sure Adobe knows about this product, so I wonder why they cannot make something similar, or just buy the company out and implement their product in Photoshop. You have to see this tool in use to actually believe it.

Thanks,

Dave.

[Bart_...@adobeforums.com]

My friend, you're being led by the nose. There is no magic bullet for that.

[Phosąfour dots]

Have YOU actually used it, Dave?

Even with a dedicated plugin as capable as MaskPro, you still have to take the time to learn how to get the most out of it, and to use it efficiently. And that's not necessarily as easy as someone might make it look.

I don't mean that to say Mask Pro (or any of the other pro-level masking plugins) isn't useful—or possibly better than Photoshop's native tools at doing the same job—but to add my agreement to what Bart said.

There ARE no magic solutions. It'll STILL require a practiced level of expertise.

[Buko]

It'll STILL require a practiced level of expertise.

Exactly! and this means that if you have never used the plugin you wont be able to extract a woman from a very busy background effortlessly, including strands of her hair in under a minute.

[Don_Mc...@adobeforums.com]

Let me guess ... the sample picture was one with significant contrast between the hair and background. Ask to see an example where the hair color is close to the background color.

[Curvem...@adobeforums.com]

Photoshop ships with a similar, though simpler, tool called Extract. As of
CS4, which integrates many of the Extract tool's functions into Photoshop
proper, the Extract tool is available in the goodies folder.

[CR_Hen...@adobeforums.com]

I attempted to use the trial version of Mask Pro 4 with the original release of PS CS4.

I was not able to finish a single extraction before the trial expired because the app kept crashing. I reported the crashes early on to onOne but never heard a response.

onOne PS plugins currently do not work with the 64 bit version of PS CS4 though they say they are working on it.

[Ho]

I've used Knockout and Fluid Mask, both of which can produce outstanding results. Most often, though, they get you about 80% of the way to a professional masking job and (usually) the time spent getting there is not inconsequential.

The guys that demo the software make it look like a Photoshop miracle. As has already been pointed out, there ain't no such thing.

[Free...@adobeforums.com]

Besides, if it was that easy - where's the fun in that?

I'd just get bored and find something more interesting to do.

[Mark_R...@adobeforums.com]

The problem with many people's perception of these whizz bang masking plug-ins, is that the simply don't know what Photoshop already has built into it. They don't know about Color Range (improved in the quality of its result in CS4), channel masking, calculations and even the straightforward selection tools. Including the pen, which are already brilliantly implemented, and go FAR further in their flexibility,quality, speed of use of their result without a dodgy interface.

[John_...@adobeforums.com]

I have Mask Pro and I agree that it's a very useful, deep and robust tool
which augments Photoshop's native toolkit very well.

Having said that, it doesn't do anything that cannot be done natively with
Photoshop's existing tools but using the native tools may be less intuitive
and harder to grasp with less than satisfactory results for many users.

Just bear in mind that Mask Pro is certainly no magic bullet. It doesn't
work cleanly on all photos. On the right photos (lots of high contrasting
edges) it does a great job, quickly. But, in my experience, it's rarely
effortless to get good results.

It takes time, patience and practice, practice, practice to use it well -
just like Photoshop itself.

You need hands on experience with it, away from the seductive lure of the
(helpful) OnOne training movies and glowing reviews, to understand its
strengths and limitations.

--
Regards

John Waller

[KatW...@adobeforums.com]

sometimes you just don't want to fiddle about for hours making masks
send it to Thailand via internet for $2.50, you get it next morning
they work while we sleep
well worth it

[M.Barnes]

I tried so many of these products and in my my opinion I don't see any benefits. KatWoman says that it saves her time, but one could also ask the question; are you saving time because you don't know how to do it in Photoshop better and faster?

Extracting backgrounds is all about learning as many techniques as possible, not only by learning from others, but also your own experiments. Also pratice to recognize which approach should be used. This takes time, but impatient people often grab a third party plugin and never really learn the true power of Photoshop.

The common mistake that people make in my opinion is to rely on only one technique or tool for a specific image. The real strenght comes from combining tools (if really necessary). I've done many extractions for example where a combination of using a regular mask AND a vector mask gave me much better results than sticking to a single tool, technique or third party plugin.

The sad thing is, once you take the time to show in a friendly way on forums of these manufacturers how to do it faster and better in Photoshop, they often decide to delete your posts as has happened to me several times.

Nothing but a waste of money, there is a reason why they always use EASY images in their demonstrations...sigh

[Rob_K...@adobeforums.com]

send it to Thailand via internet for $2.50, you get it next morning they
work while we sleep
well worth it

I tried one of those, had a test image done, with a fence against a blue sky (heck, they could automatically chroma key it), but I can do a better job. Without a plugin.

We (some fellow photographers and I occupying the same studio building) discussed it and we all said "no way we are going to work on it for an hour and a half, when they can do it for 5 Euro", until we saw the result.

FWIW, I learned to make cutouts (including fine strands of fuzzy hair against textured walls) the very most from Martin Evenings books.

It's extra work, but the clients cue up (sorta) :-)

Rob

[KatW...@adobeforums.com]

FWIW I don't even own any plug-ins and have used many selection tools and
know how to make a decent selection
I use color range, magic wand, magnetic lasso, refine edges and combos of
those
Also tried Russell Browns channel technique for flying hair etc (his example
is on a plain gray cyc) and that hideous pen tool

a complicated mask make might take me a couple hours and I feel my time is
worth more

the service bureau does it for $2.50 overnight
the one I sent was FREE as a trial of their service
and I was quite pleased with it

for me the choice to farm out that un-creative task depends on the job,
things like number of images to complete in the time frame given
I prefer to use my time with an image for more the subjective changes, like
color balance, light, filters, adding creative techniques, fixing what I
want to

it is like the choice to use a lab to print or do it all yourself
benefits to both and choice dictated by the assignment
after all once we didn't have to sit and process all our own images they
went to an E6 lab
and we paid them to do it

so many things we did manually can now be done by a computer program such as
replacing part of the background with parts from another frame
adding softer depth of field by a plug in
skin smoothing etc
even windows live has stitching (even a little kid can do it as the
commercial shows)
resisitance is futile

[KatW...@adobeforums.com]

I should add I do very little work that needs cut out backgrounds
the photographer I work for shoots gorgeous locations and is good at
exposing and focusing properly in camera
I am mostly fixing people's faces and bodies

[Don_Mc...@adobeforums.com]

send it to Thailand via internet for $2.50, you get it next morning

What are the chances that the person working there for $1 an hour (or less???) is working on a legitimate, non-pirated version of Photoshop?

[Lawrenc...@adobeforums.com]

Won't be long and we will be sending all our RAW images somewhere else for corrections, at pennies on the dollar.

Ain't exploitation wonderful?

[David_E_...@adobeforums.com]

RAW sweat shops.... not a good thought

[KatW...@adobeforums.com]

maybe not pirated as the owners are GERMAN expatriates
and why assume that?

[Bart_...@adobeforums.com]

Oh, that is wa-a-a-a-a-ay too easy.

[Fred_...@adobeforums.com]

Colonialism lives!

I'm also having suspicions that there might be children involved here as well.....

If it ain't exploitation, why not do the job from the Fatherland then?

[KatW...@adobeforums.com]

why not do the job from the Fatherland then?

sun? surfing? beaches? lower cost of living? married a Thai person? spicy
food?

[John Joslin]

There are those spaces again!

It can't be caused by IE, there are lots more misguided IE users still out there.

[John_Me...@adobeforums.com]

Good lord, what a bizarre thread. The biggest thing Mask Pro is missing is Billy Mays yellin' its merits at me, but apparently the OP's guy is pretty good too.

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

but can you use it to slap chop nuts? ;)

[John_Me...@adobeforums.com]

Meh. My knife skills put that thing to shame. Besides, Vince lost credibility with me when I tried the ChamWOW! and thought "Whoa...sham."

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

he lost credibility with me when he said "watch me slap my nuts" on a nationally aired tv commercial! :)

[Phosąfour dots]

"You're gonna love my nuts!"

Fixed.

%D ;)

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

yea, knew it was something like that.

[David_E_...@adobeforums.com]

From Mask Pro to nuts in 5 days.

[Mathias_...@adobeforums.com]

Try the Quick Selection Tool (CS4). It works just like what the OP describes, and I now use it for all my extraction needs.

[Bill...@adobeforums.com]

Don't chop nuts. FONDLE them!

<http://vermundr.deviantart.com/art/Fondling-My-Nuts-55601389>

PC rated country humor.

Bill