Could I remind Adobe that we are in a "credit crunch" and that perhaps if their software was cheaper they might sell more. Or is that perhaps too logical?
Pam
It's hard-nosed commercial exploitation of a captive user base by the Adobe bean counters.
Does anybody know the logic behind the fact that PS7 users can't upgrade
to CS4?
yes. they want more money. they figured you skipped three versions and now they want you to pay up. and they called you a cheap-skate. :)
They called me a cheap-skate. They called Pam a tightwad.
Didn't you get the Press Release on that, Dave?
;) %D XD
Bob
Because customers who do upgrade often deserve to be treated better than
those that don't.
I don't think so. customers are customers. i used to think it was very classy of adobe to update everyone who owned any version.
"A customer is the most important visitor on our premises.
He is not dependent on us.
We are dependent on him.
He is not an interruption in our work - he is the purpose of it.
We are not doing him a favour by serving him.
He is doing us a favour by giving us the opportunity to serve him."
Ghandi
There was plenty of warning ...
Only for people who hang around here or spend their time browsing Adobe's atrocious web pages.
I don't think Adobe sent out a notification of their change in policy to every user of an older version did they?
Get your oil changed 10 times at LubeExpress and get the next one free.
Use certain credit cards and get miles or cash back. But heaven forbid a
software company treats regular customer better and they're evil.
Sorry, but loyalty should count for something.
Bob
there. fixed that for ya.
But heaven forbid a software company stands out by treating every customer like a first class customer.
you're right. that's no way to run a business. that's the way to BUILD a business, but once they're hooked, that's no way to RUN one...
Adobe is a business...time to get over it.
Bob
... or jump over (crossgrade?) to gimp ;o)
Call them up and find out what they can do for her...as you say, in this
economy perhaps they can offer her a discount on a new CS4 license. It
can't hurt to ask. If she's real nice and gets the right person you
never know.
But seriously, why do you feel this way, Dave? I understand wanting to
be treated fairly but that's a two way street. Has she been a loyal
customer? The answer is quite obviously no.
The fact that you, or any other regular upgrader would take this stance
surprises me. Here's why.
The Adobe installers are crappy enough as it is. Can you imagine if they
had to verify installation media and serial numbers that could be up to
20 years old? I know the argument that's coming...just have the person
call Adobe.
The glitch in that argument is that you need a human being to handle
that...and that costs money, which raises the price of the software for
EVERYONE. Would you, as a loyal customer who's purchased every upgrade,
be willing to underwrite that cost? What if Adobe allowed all previous
owners to upgrade to CS4 for $239.00 instead of $199.00. Now...how do
you feel about it?
People are complaining enough about the cost as it is. Would you then
jump in to chastise Adobe for jacking up the price? You can't have it
both ways...either you want loyal customers to be treated as such or you
don't, but allowing every who's ever purchased a product from any
company to get the same treatment as regular loyal customers just makes
no sense from a customer prospective or a business prospective.
Bob
But seriously, why do you feel this way, Dave?
quitting smoking. thanks for asking. :)
Has she been a loyal customer? The answer is quite obviously no.
well, she bought and is using ps 7. did she go out in that time and fool around with another software company? hmm...
Ah...so now I know why you moved out of New Jersey. <g>
Bob
and what's traffic? people freak out up here when avg speed slows down to 45mph!!! lol!
Thank you Adobe and ____________ all the whiners in this thread!
Adobe was one of the rare companies that offered to update any version
of their software
which is one reason, imo, why they always engendered such fanatical loyalty. by behaving like the quarks and the microsofts, they've left themselves open to a "use whatever" sw might come along mentality, rather than "give me adobe or give me death!". :)
They are still being more than reasonable. They still allow you to update
every third version at this point.
I do hand it to them for that.
"Thank you Adobe and" A FREE UPGRADE "all the whiners in this thread!"
WHOO HOO! :)
wait... :)
Yeah, I thought the "______" would be more appropriate than what I was thinking at that time.
I remember when ID first came out V1 was sadly inept, so they came out with V1.5 which initially was offered at $129. I lead the charge that we shouldn't have to pay to get a workable version and eventually it was offered at $29. I was called some very nasty things on the ID forum for starting that thread and I was being on my best Canadian behaviour. So Adobe does listen to its customers.
That's being kind.
Bob
Bob
> Does anybody know the logic behind the fact that PS7 users can't upgrade to CS4?
As John Reed said of WWI, "Profits".
They didn't know when V.7 was released that they would be taking this course of action on upgrade eligibility.
But, as I said earlier, I don't think Adobe sent out a notification of their change in policy to every user of an older version did they?
It's part of the decline in customer loyalty which really started with the stupid suite concept (which they didn't think through).
It's all for short term gain and to hell with the long-term consequences.
It's all for short term gain and to hell with the long-term consequences.
that's all i'm sayin. but that goes against the mba philosophy that's trashed the world's economy. i blame obama. ;)
Then this year Adobe can send out a e-mail or snail mail to lets say the users of CS products (as a example) telling them CS5 will be the last time you can upgrade. No time limit. Throw in Lightroom 2 (3 maybe this next coming round) at reduced cost to sweeten the deal.
Well, in some cases, I'm sure customers that purchased Photoshop 7 (and previous versions) did exactly that. At which time they were lead to believe that they would be able to upgrade at ANY time without penalty.
So now I ask, what's your point?
Q
Nonsense...it was plainly obvious when CS3 came out and PS 7 was the
earliest version you could upgrade from that when CS4 came out, PS7
would be dropped from the eligible versions.
What would you say if this thread was about upgrading from PS6 or PS5?
This is no different than the whining from people who buy the new
version after it's been out for 16 months and then cry when a new
version is released and they don't get it for free.
I do more research on a coffee maker than these people do on large
software purchases.
Bob
Ridiculous. Just because that was the policy in effect at the time is no
proof that it would continue. In fact, the current policy has been in
effect since CS3 was released which means our OP did no research at all
over the last two years.
Bob
I don't hear people complaining that they can't upgrade from Windows Me to Windows Vista so why are people complaining about not being able to upgrade from PS7 to CS4?
I fully respect you, and your knowledge, but to say I'm ridiculous is unfair. Please keep in mind that not every user of Photoshop spends time in these forums. I have a friend that has a busy photography studio. He works long hours.
He is pretty intelligent. He builds computers and knows his way around Photoshop very well. He keeps up on all things pertaining to photography equipment. He had no clue that he needed to upgrade to CS3 from 7, or lose his right to upgrade. Will you at least admit that I have a point, and that it is not ridiculous?
Respectfully,
Q
Incremental version pricing looks at the fact that a version 7 user will be getting a whole lot more new features than a CS3 version user. Why should they not pay a lot more.
I am happy with Adobe allowing us to skip one or two versions of the software, in cases where the new features are not those I need. I usually skip one version.
(I remember upgrading to Quark 3.3 from Quark 2.0. They made me pay for Quark 3.0 upgrade, 3.1 upgrade, and 3.2 upgrade. To make it even worse, to reinstall (which I had to do regularly) I had to load each version, and update to the next version, in order.
You say he keeps up with all things pertaining to photography
equipment...well unless he's still using a darkroom, I would include
Photoshop and a very good computer in that.
In short, it's his business to know these things and when you add in the
fact that he had a year and half to find out and he gets no sympathy
from me. He skipped three upgrades...that's $600 saved.
What Adobe is doing makes perfect business sense...pay now or pay later.
Again, I don't understand why software makers get held to a different
standard than other industries.
Bob
my point still stands i'm afraid,
don't be afraid. we're really a friendly bunch here. :)
I am happy with Adobe allowing us to skip one or two versions of the software,
for now... XD
for now
Yeah. I can see them tightening the noose to two versions back. The problem with forcing continued upgrades each time is that hardware upgrades often have to follow software, and there is no way you can upgrade hardware every 18 months. Hell, at my college I am lucky if I can get IT to install something in that length of time.
(A coworker had a new laptop that spent the first 6-9 months of its life sitting in a box in the IT area, waiting for someone to install it. The machine was installed, and the one year warranty wore out a few months later).
Yeah. I can see them tightening the noose to two versions back.
then one. then every version or you pay full price.
Hey, look, Dave's wearing a tinfoil hat.
Bob
As long as they keep the educational versions cheap, I am covered though. Right now I can buy a new ed version for about the same as an upgrade.
If you run a business then a full version is probably cheaper than a month's rent.
I'd like PS to offer upgrades from 1.0 as well,but are your 20 year customers entitled to 1989 prices?
I'd like PS to offer upgrades from 1.0 as well,but are your 20 year customers
entitled to 1989 prices?
depends. do you want them as a customer 20 years from now? or are they only worth fussing over for "this quarter"? again i say, photoshop or any app will not remain "on top" forever. just as quark couldn't do it. when that "ever" comes, a lot will depend on customer loyalty. if you've already capitalized out all your customer loyalty then...
As a true loyal customer (not just of Adobe's but of any company) I
expect to be treated well and that just might mean treating someone
who's not so loyal not as well.
Quark's problems went well beyond their pricing structure.
Bob
Quark's problems went well beyond their pricing structure.
yes grasshopper... continue... :)
Bob
No need.
no need, but the mbas will go there anyway... sad but true.
Bob
The fact is that it would be nearly impossible to manage all of the old
versions..
bah.
Bob
Retailers hate excess SKUs
this is 100% adobe's fault. 1 sku for full version. one for upgrade. done and done.
Right full version and upgrade from Photoshop CS and later. Done and Done!
Bob
Why should I not pursue a hobby, just because I have little money. Is photography ONLY a rich person's hobby? Obviously it is. Incidentally, we don't all have the opportunity to spend our time on Forums, where we might see these ridiculous rules. Also, in the UK the software is double the price of that in the USA. As regards Microsoft Vista, lots of UK Companies are not upgrading, because their software won't run on Vista. That's why Windows XP is still being sold to businesses in the UK - People Power!!
Pam
And again, I fail to see how you can be considered a loyal customer when
you haven't upgraded in years.
Bob
And again, I fail to see how you can be considered a loyal customer when
you haven't upgraded in years.
can't you see? because when she WAS ready to upgrade. adobe WAS her first choice.
Even the current version will do more than the full blown version of PS7.
I don't think so. unless by more you mean, what? chatzkies and auto red eye kind of things?
I drove the same car for 16 years. Should I have gotten the same trade
in allowance as someone who traded in a one year old car?
Bob
They can call me a "tightwad", but I earn very little money.
then you should have paid close attention to the upgrade policies, you could have saved some.
There would be a need for new, more complicated installers and/or
customer service people. And let's not forget the people who were
bitching and moaning when they upgraded to C2 from PS 5 and had to call
in every time they installed.
Would the "loyal customer" stand for having to wait on hold for an
installation code or come here to vent? And let's not forget the people
that would be complaining about the new interface and how Adobe forced
them to upgrade because the version they're using only worked on Windows 98.
Sorry, but this is one of times that it's just better to let them walk
away. You can't keep everyone happy.
Bob
Quiet Dave, go and change your patch.
:)
I'm trying to quit @_$)(@$(*@$ SU#W(*#OI:SDP*WR *WRE( w9:)((WrkikdfW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Time for a smoke.
Ah, I feel badder now!
Dave. What if keeping her (and others like her) caused Adobe to have to
raise prices across the board to support them?
you mean they're not doing that already? no they keep raising prices to keep their stock prices up. and executive salaries. and bonuses. do you really believe that they raise prices because Pamela E Jones hasn't upgraded since versions 7? well then bobby, have i got a bridge to show you. right over the river. you can see it from the turnpike...
You can't keep everyone happy.
that's a great slogan if your goal is to drive yourself out of business...
i'd rather stick with (repost):
"A customer is the most important visitor on our premises.
He is not dependent on us.
We are dependent on him.
He is not an interruption in our work - he is the purpose of it.
We are not doing him a favour by serving him.
He is doing us a favour by giving us the opportunity to serve him."
Ghandi
I don't think he's using the patch, but it had to be said.
AM. :) (week 8 and counting... down to 7mg)
I wonder what part of "can't afford to upgrade every year" people don't understand. When money is no object, we can all afford to be loyal and condescending. Some of us have more urgent priorities. Welcome to the real World!
This is nothing personal...it's strictly business. Keeping an upgrade
path back more than three versions, contrary to what some people may
think, costs a lot of money.
Bob
what you're not comprehending is the damage [a company] does to their brand when they implement customer unfriendly policies. especially when they CHANGE them from formerly very customer friendly policies.
contrary to what some people may think, costs a lot of money.
no. it doesn't, no matter what some people may think. ;)
Bob
You can say that again. There are certainly not many legit copies around. I agree with you and Dave.
As regards loyalty, how many people were loyal to their Banks? Look what happened there. Businesses only care about one thing - getting your money and nothing else. Was always true, is true now and always will be. I've worked for multinational companies in the past and the only thing that concerns them is profit and shareholders. Sad, but true.
Pam
See <http://www.storyphoto.com/multimedia/multimedia_photoshop.html>
It is now big business and suffers from all the horrible symptoms that characterise today's commercial world.
We can bleat all we like, the train has left us customers on the sidelines, and will continue on its headlong rush until the bubble bursts.
And imagine the insult when I upgrade from CS4MC to CS7MC for the same price as sequential upgrades and take advantage of all that R&D without additional charge. Those nervy Adobe SOBs. How dare they treat me like this. I'm not cheap, what will my business client think of me? Hopefully this treatment of me by Adobe does not affect how my clients view me, that somehow I will cheapen their business needs by using products like that.
I am terribly insulted by this treatment of me by Adobe and want to complain immediately. Bob, please send me the contact information, I'll show those greedy SOBs. I am totally in a tizzy now, you, you Adobe you!
. I am totally in a tizzy now,
:P
try xanex... :)
try xanex, nope just add two more patches Dave.
That link led to a very interesting story. I agree with everything you say. The bubble will one day burst!
Pam
thanks
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After that, you're SOL if you let the upgrade cycle pass you by.