CS4 bug: brush cursor display is incomplete

[Ton...@adobeforums.com]

Just installed CS4 under WinXP, 4G RAM.

I've set my brush cursors to show full size. The cursor displays correctly for brush sizes up to about 150 px. Beyond 150 px, the circle representing the brush size gets truncated: at 170 px, it's down to a half-circle, at 200 px it's down to one-third of a circle, and at 300 px all that remains is a small curved line segment.

[chris_...@adobeforums.com]

That's annoying - does it do it to custom brushes too?

[Ton...@adobeforums.com]

I solved this problem by updating my graphics card drivers (nVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT.)

[chris_...@adobeforums.com]

good stuff

[Myle...@adobeforums.com]

That's annoying - does it do it to custom brushes too?

Yes. It's an issue with how the brush "texture" overlay does not work within a given memory tile. You can also see white fringes on the cursors on systems that show this behavior, as obviously it also affects transparency blending. Maybe some day a patch will give us back the option to do this properly on all cards... *sigh*

Mylenium

[Tina_...@adobeforums.com]

Has everyone else seeing this issue updated their display drivers? Please do so, and then post if it solved the problem or not - and post what specific video card you're using. Thanks!

[Tina_...@adobeforums.com]

NVidia has released a new driver - please try that one.

[Dave_G...@adobeforums.com]

Hi Tina. I upgraded my Master Suite last evening and have the broken cursor issue. I'm running the newest Nvidia driver (178.26) on a Quadro FX 4600. Are there any particular settings / profiles that should be adjusted within the driver control panel to remedy this? The issue makes it pretty difficult to use the software.

[mister...@adobeforums.com]

Brush Cursors are clipped when larger than 64px. This is one of the known issues with CS4 using the GPU reported by Adobe. They will likely fix it in the 1st patch.
Regards, MM

[chris_...@adobeforums.com]

That's rubbish i.e.clipping - my brushes never really go below 150 pixels - I will be really annoyed if I see this issue with my 8800gts 640mb card and cs4.

[Tina_...@adobeforums.com]

This is a known issue, which NVidia is working on. If the most recent driver doesn't solve the problem, keep checking for new drivers.

Dave - I'll pass this on, but you might want to let NVidia know that you're using a Cintiq. That sort of thing always complicates matters. ;-)

[CR_Hen...@adobeforums.com]

chris farrell:That's rubbish i.e.clipping - my brushes never really go

below 150 pixels - I will be really annoyed if I see this issue with my
8800gts 640mb card and cs4.

Just a data point. I do NOT have the clipping problem in either 32bit or 64 bit PS CS4 on my system: Vista Ultimate 64, Q6...@2.4GHz, 8GB RAM, nVidia 9800GTX+ with 178.24 drivers, 2 SamSung SyncMaster 225BW monitors.

[chris_...@adobeforums.com]

Cheers CR Henderson

My cs4 has been shipped so I will find out tomorrow - I'll report in after I've installed it.

[Stefan...@adobeforums.com]

Now that`s funny, that problem is even visible in nvidia`s own presentation at:
<http://www.nvidia.com/object/adobe_photoshop.html>
Go to "brush rezising" there. If you look carefully at that video you can see that the brush circle is only half visible when it is big!

[chris_...@adobeforums.com]

'sigh' finally it has arrived and is installed - no brush problems and everything seems good.

[bob_a_f...@adobeforums.com]

Downloaded latest NVIDIA driver and cursor is now working.

Onward to new bugs/features of CS4

[David...@adobeforums.com]

I too am having this problem with the cursor beginning to disappear around 200 px. I've finished downloading and installing an updated nVidia driver to no effect.

This problem occurs whether Open GL is enabled or not.

I'm running Windows XP and did not have this problem with CS3 or any prior version of Photoshop.

[Pipkin]

Same issue on the secondary monitor.
Latest Nvidia drivers installed (6.14.11.8043).
Evident bug.

Geforce 8800GT (512 Mb) on board.

[David...@adobeforums.com]

By the way, I wanted to emphasize that the larger the cursor gets, the more of it disappears, to the point that you're only seeing a sliver of it - which makes it pretty much UNUSABLE because you can't see where you're drawing.

[Chri...@adobeforums.com]

Please contact NVidia with details of your card and system so they can fix the bug in the appropriate driver for your card and OS.

[David...@adobeforums.com]

But... it's a laptop, and not a real popular one, with built-in video.

I suspect it will be far easier and quicker to buy a new laptop than to get nVidia to fix the problem.

Meanwhile, CS3 and all prior versions of Photoshop did not exhibit this behavior. Is there no way that Adobe could fix the problem instead???????????????

Has Adobe just cost me the use of my laptop for editing???

(not very happy at the moment)

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

I suspect it will be far easier and quicker to buy a new laptop than to
get nVidia to fix the problem.

you'd be surprised at how bad those guys want to stay on top of reported bugs. there's a great rivalry between them and ati. both take bug reports VERY seriously and act quickly on them.

Is there no way that Adobe could fix the problem instead?

not if it's nvidia's problem. and if chris says it is, it most likely is.

[David...@adobeforums.com]

I wouldn't doubt that there might be a bug in the nVidia driver. But Chris' recommendation aside, it would be CS4 that "turned on" this feature that CS3 never needed to use.

Some important points (from my posts) to remember:

1) This "bug" appears regardless of whether I enable acceleration in CS4. (which means CS4 even without acceleration turned on is doing something different from what CS3, CS2, CS or any of the other prior versions did)

2) I have already upgraded to the latest nVidia driver (well, the latest I could find, it is from August 2008).

My biggest problem is that the last time I contacted nVidia they told me that they don't support my laptop and that I have to go to the laptop manufacturer.

Indeed, if you look on nVidia's website, my video is _NOT_ listed on their website (GeForce Go 7700). The only way I was able to find a driver at all was by scouring the internet and finding a third party that was hosting it.

So the chances of nVidia doing something about it? I'd say are nil.

In the mean time, I have a broken cursor for anything other than editing small details. From my perspective, I have a broken CS4.

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

My biggest problem is that the last time I contacted nVidia they told
me that they don't support my laptop and that I have to go to the laptop
manufacturer.

guess what your next step is...

[boblevine]

> From my perspective, I have a broken CS4.

David, if Chris says it's nVidia you have every reason to believe him.
He's always been quite honest here and it's very good to have him back.

The fact that you got this driver from a third party doesn't sit too
well, either.

Bob

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

if the laptop manufacturer provides the (supposedly custom) driver, that's probably where he'll have to go for a fix.

[Free...@adobeforums.com]

My biggest problem is that the last time I contacted nVidia they told
me that they don't support my laptop and that I have to go to the laptop
manufacturer

This is in fact a major concern with laptops. I have an hp laptop, and it will not accept nVidia's driver for the 8600 GS. It has to come from hp, and the latest hp driver is about 6 months old. And this is a top-of-the-line machine that I bought only a year ago.

I installed CS4 Design Standard on my Vista 64 desktop yesterday, and in so doing I checked for nVidia updates for my 8500 GT. Guess what? The latest update came only a week or so ago.

Obviously, running Photoshop on desktops and laptops can be two very different things from now on. It's probably time to start pestering the laptop manufacturers.

PS BTW - haven't had time to use CS4 much yet, but so far it seems great. No problems yet.

[David...@adobeforums.com]

It's not a matter of believing Chris in saying nVidia has a bug. I'm not disputing that.

I _AM_ saying that CS3, CS2, CS and all other versions of Photoshop have used a DIFFERENT METHOD OF DISPLAYING THE CURSOR which functioned without exhibiting this bug.

THAT METHOD could be "turned back on" as an option in the same way that enabling (or not) acceleration is provided as an option.

(I didn't think what I was saying was that hard to understand, but I'm hoping the caps will provide sufficient emphasis without making it sound like I'm screaming)

And to reiterate ... this bug was apparent on my laptop (using CS4) BEFORE downloading the third party driver. It continues to manifest itself even after an Augst 31st 2008 release of the nVidia driver. The one and only reason I installed this third party driver was an attempt to solve the CS4 cursor problem.

Again, from my perspective: It is a CS4 cursor problem (no other application on my laptop is exhibiting this behavior and CS3 continues to function without a problem, but I paid good money for CS4 and would like to use it).

[Chri...@adobeforums.com]

Yes, CS4 uses a different bit of code for displaying the cursor. Normally that code is more stable, faster, has less lag, etc. than the old code. But it does expose bugs in some video card drivers. No, the old code cannot be "turned back on", it's far from that simple.

This is just a video card driver bug exposed by us using different APIs. Adobe cannot fix that, only the video card maker can fix that.

[David...@adobeforums.com]

That's unfortunate... it sounds like I'm stuck with CS3.

Any chance for a refund? (I could maybe apply it towards the purchase of a new laptop)

[boblevine]

Adobe has a 30 day return policy.

Bob

[Joann...@adobeforums.com]

I'm using a 512MB ATI Radeon 1950XT graphics card and I get that strange cursor thing with larger cursor sizes. I haven't updated my driver since receiving my new PC 18 months ago. I don't know if it's got Open GL compatibility or not, never mind how to switch it on!

Laptop has an nVidia graphics chip, but I haven't tried that with a large cursor yet.

Joanne

[Dav...@adobeforums.com]

On my XP Pro SP3/ NVidia 8800GTX system with the latest 178.24 driver, the brush cursor is limited to 2500px maximum.

On the primary monitor the full circumference is displayed OK, but on the secondary the brush cursor reduces to the upper left quadrant above 300px and shrinks as the cursor size increases until it is gone above 2000px.

Luckily I never need such a big cursor nor work on the secondary, but the bug is definitely there.

In case it is relevant, I am running 2x1280x1024x32bit with the primary on the right and secondary on the left.

[Anthon...@adobeforums.com]

"...I'm using a 512MB ATI Radeon 1950XT graphics card and I get that strange cursor thing with larger cursor sizes. I haven't updated my driver since receiving my new PC 18 months ago. I don't know if it's got Open GL compatibility or not, never mind how to switch it on!

Joanne:

I'm using the same graphics card without any problems. However, I went to the ATI site and downloaded/installed the latest driver (dated 11th October 2008) which I would strongly recommend as something you should do...

Anthony.

[Joann...@adobeforums.com]

Cheers Anthony. Is my graphics card compatible with that Open GL thing? I haven't updated a graphics driver for ages, correct me if I'm wrong:

Download the new driver. Uninstall the old one via add/remove programs. Restart the computer. Install the new driver.

I do have the problem that my PC doesn't display the start-up screens when connected via DVI. I have never managed to find out how to sort it, just that's it is caused by a vBios issue.

If I don't fully understand what I'm doing, I tend to leave well alone and avoid digging a bigger hole for myself.

Jo

[Joann...@adobeforums.com]

I definitely need to update my display driver. With the GPU thing enabled, doing certain things causes the display to go black and the computer spontaneously reboots itself.

I've disabled the GPU acceleration until I get the new driver installed. It's downloaded, just need to confirm the sequence for uninstalling the ATI software components and reinstalling the new version.

Jo

[Anthon...@adobeforums.com]

Joanne:

I just run the installation and the old drivers get overwritten; and that works for me.

If someone knows differently, please speak up.

Anthony.

[Chri...@adobeforums.com]

Joanne - ouch. That could be a driver, or a card problem. I hope the updated driver solves it.

[Pipkin]

The cursor issue on the second monitor is solved at my side by reducing display driver hardware acceleration

[David...@adobeforums.com]

I have found that to be true as well (that the cursor no longer disappears if you reduce the hardware acceleration).

Sadly, doing this also means that the cursor from time to time leaves "droppings" on the screen as I move the cursor around.

[Joann...@adobeforums.com]

Well, I updated my graphics driver for my ATI Radeon 1950XT and now, the PC freezes up but doesn't restart spontaneously. I think it's time to find a new graphics card.

Which one do you folks works best on XP SP3? Who has the least problems?

Jo

[David...@adobeforums.com]

Kinda sad that you have to upgrade your video card just to use a photo editor, huh?

If it were a gaming machine, it would be a whole different story. But a photo editor... sad.

[Joann...@adobeforums.com]

I can't display VGA screens while connected via DVI either. I have submitted a ticket to ATI, but I'm not holding my breath. Until now, apart from no start-up screens, I was okay.

Joanne

[David...@adobeforums.com]

UPDATE!

Adobe has a registry setting that will enable Old GPUs that, when applied, solves the cursor problem completely.

I'm very happy about this. Thanks! :)

(now I just wish I hadn't updated my video driver because it's not working as well as it used to)

[Chri...@adobeforums.com]

David - no, the registry setting does not solve the cursor problem. It is a temporary patch for some people with some drivers - and it is risky because it tells Photoshop to use features even if your video card says it does not support all the necessary features. That means that the driver may crash or show other artifacts when using that registry key.

The video card driver still needs to fix the bug causing the cursor problems.

[David...@adobeforums.com]

Uh... okay.

Well, CS4 was a total pain in the butt until yesteday. With the registry settings in place I'm now able to use CS4.

Still no word on when (if ever) a new update for my video card might be available. Laptop video apparently is a bastard child.

[Chris_...@adobeforums.com]

I'm having the same trouble.. Running on an NVIDIA Quadro NVS 290. Seems like the problem is only on NVIDIA cards. Has anyone had any luck getting this problem fixed? I hope it gets fixed ASAP, because right now my CS4 is basically unusable... a brush tool without a cursor is worthless.

[David...@adobeforums.com]

The most often heard reply in this forum is to update your video driver.

If you have as much trouble as I did (seems my laptop's video is not supported - even by nVidia!), then email me and I'll put you in touch with the person that gave me the registry setting that fixed the cursor for me. (I don't want to post it publicly because they probably want more control over the issue, but I can at least put you in touch with him)

My email: david @ dterryphotography.com

[Chri...@adobeforums.com]

The cursor bug is in the video card driver - updating it usually works, if not you need to contact NVida so they can update the driver for your model.

[Carl_...@adobeforums.com]

I have updated my video drivers to version 178.24 and am running on the NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GS, still having the brush cursor problem.

[Chris_...@adobeforums.com]

update.. i installed not the performance drivers, but the standard video card drivers for the Quadro NVS 290 (178.26_quadro_winxp2k_english_whql.exe) and it works fine now!

[ob3...@adobeforums.com]

Seen that both nvidia and my laptop manufacturer didn't release an updated version for my graphic card (8600M GT), solving this issue was really hard but seems like i found the way thanks to this website <http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/>
It has all the specific drivers for all laptop graphic cards, just look in the list of the cards supported for each driver version.
Hope this can help,
cheers

[Ron_D...@adobeforums.com]

To all who have had/have problems with incomplete cursor, I'm yet another joining the ranks. I have a Dell M1730 laptop with Nvidia 8800GTX GPU SLI, 4 GB ram, 2 x 200 GB storage in Raid ) configuration. I have tried all Nvidia drivers from 169.04 through 180.43. My base driver is 178.24 (recent). I also have a 24" LG monitor connected via dual link DVI-D cable running on idenpendent configuration (when forces SLI to be disabled). Both laptop and external monitor are running at 1920 x 1200 resolution.

I have run all programs on CS4 Designer Premium and they all work great. No problema with the cursor at all sizes. All GPU related goodies appear to work fine.

However, when I switch the screen to the LG 2452T screen (using the laptop to hold the pallets, I have a problem with the incomplete cursor. Yet all other GPU-related functions work every bit as well as when I use the laptop screen (with pallets on the LG 2452T).

Hopefully, when Nvidia releases their final version of their Big Bang II drivers (expected around the 17th of November), we may have a solution. These drivers are expected to run dual monitors on SLI. Until then, I use Photoshop CS4 on the laptop and drag the pallets over to the 24" monitor. This will work until either the driver issue is fixed or I go blind.

Almost forgot. I also use a Wacom Intuos 3 with no problems.

[F_Sa...@adobeforums.com]

Just wanted to add that I'm having the incomplete cursor problem too, on my second (Cintiq) and third monitor only. The primary monitor works fine, but since I paint on my Cintiq it sucks. I'm on XP. Changing the Cintiq to primary via the display function doesn't help. Lowering the Hardware Acceleration does work, but I don't want to do that just for PS CS4!

I have a Nvidia GeForce 9600 GT and had the up-to-date driver version 178.24, which didn't help. So updated to the beta 180.43(dated 23/10/08) which still doesn't help.

Anyway I'll report it to Nvidia, so I hope they do a fix on the beta but I'm not holding my breath.

[F_Sa...@adobeforums.com]

hmmm... I contacted Nvidia about this problem and they said "...there is no such known issue with the Adobe Photoshop CS4 and with the updated driver release".

This doesn't fill me with confidence that this issue will be fixed.

[Ron_D...@adobeforums.com]

I'm up to a 180.44 on 8800M GTX with no resolution to problem. Nvidia gave me the same "no known issue."

Dell laptop users are hurting here because, we must rely on 3rd party driver modders to get the "latest drivers." Since Nvidia won't release mobile versions directly for Dell machines, we must rely on Dell. The last Dell driver for the M1730 laptop with an 8800M GTX SLI was in February. The 8700M SLI driver is over a year old now.

So, I if Adobe can't help us, as F Sansom suggested, we may be waiting for the 12th of Never to get this reslolved.

[Jan_Sk...@adobeforums.com]

Hello,
so this is really bad, I have installed my CS4 yesterday and discovered the brush cursor problem - ok I have installed newest driver for my ASUS 8800 GTS and - yeah, cursor is OK- BUT --> all of my OTF fonts stoped working - this is another problem that I have googled earlier - not only my problem. I must use older drivers or my OTF fonts not work. So - What now?

Sorry but after all those serious problems, why ADOBE not try to cooperate with Nvidia when they are making their new software, or just chek it before release?

[Crea...@adobeforums.com]

I to have this CURSOR BUG, what a pain. Nvidia 7950GX2. I have tried up dating (178.24) and end up with artifacts on the screen. You cannot manage without a cursor size, so have resorted to my old copy of CS3 and wind the computer back to a previous date. Adobe take note what a shame for users like me to not be able to use the new stuff.
Why not work with Nvidia and sort the problem out??? I have been unable to complain to them, as their site is not user friendly, and I think it would be easier to contact the Mars probe. PLEASE HELP. Vic

[F_Sa...@adobeforums.com]

If you want to contact Nvidia, go to this page: <http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php>

Click on the Ask A Question tab then click on Continue at the bottom of the page.

[Mark_C...@adobeforums.com]

I am having the same problem with the cursor, and had for about the last half of the beta cycle. I am running an NVIDIA Quadro FX 3540 with the very latest drivers (Oct 11, 2008).

In addition, I cannot enable OpenGL as this card is apparently 'not supported'. I haven't yet tried the dangerous "older video card" registry hack; my card isn't really that old and I've been nervous about trying it.

AND ... I have the (apparently common) problem of the install failing when installing the English Language Pack part of PS 32-bit, so I cannot use that program (and my old filters) either. My only option seems to be to uninstall and re-install the *entire* web pro pack, as I have no option to uninstall and re-install 32-bit PS.

So I can't really use PS at all right now. :(

[Paul_...@adobeforums.com]

Mark,

Are you saying that the problem was there during beta? Was it ever fixed then?

Paul

[David...@adobeforums.com]

So I can't really use PS at all right now.

Kinda sad when lack of video card "acceleration" prevents you from using a photo editor. In any case, the older video card registry "hack" worked for me. I'm up and running with CS4 and quite happy with it now.

[Oliver_H...@adobeforums.com]

I have exactly the same issue with CS4. Drivers are up to date, but cursors on brushes, eraser, dodging and blurring all either go to a partial segment - eg a 45-60 degree arc - or freeze and refuse to resize or show themselves. Particularly irritating when resizing a brush, where Esc sometimes cures a freeze, but usually you have to reselect the tool.

[Mark_C...@adobeforums.com]

Paul,
Yes; this issue appeared during beta and, no, it was never fixed. :(

Mark

[Chri...@adobeforums.com]

Mark - the incomplete cursor problem is an NVidia driver bug. Adobe can't fix it.

[David...@adobeforums.com]

It's so nice to push things under the rug like that.

nVidia's bug or not ... Adobe has a way (via a registry setting) to "work around the bug" and it's a shame that they would rather push it under the rug than help their customers out.

If it weren't for the registry setting I would have asked for my money back from Adobe already because CS4 is basically broken on my laptop. And still, to this day, neither the laptop manufacturer nor nVidia have produced a fix.

Why let a little thing like this render a $699 package unusable when distributing the registry setting could potentially help the customer instead? Wouldn't you rather have happy (instead of irritated) customers?

[Chri...@adobeforums.com]

Nothing is being pushed under the rug. I'm telling you the facts. We're trying to work with customers to find and fix these issues. We've been working with the video card makers for years to get these issues fixed -- but it is up to them to deliver the updated drivers.

And I don't know of any magic registry setting that can fix a broken video card driver. The most we can do is say "ignore all the errors and assume the video card works correctly, whether it really does or not" (allow old GPUs).

Again, we're trying to help our customers.
But we do not have details of the video card circuitry or programming, we do not have source code to the video card drivers, and we are not setup to certify and release video card drivers (Microsoft has interesting procedures and requirements).

If your video card maker has not yet fixed the bug - let them know, so they can address the bug in the model specific and OS version specific driver that you need.

[David...@adobeforums.com]

My video card maker does not support me.

nVidia does not directly support the video card in my laptop and my laptop manufacturer appears to not care either.

That meant my choice was either: return Photoshop CS4 as "broken" on my laptop, or buy a new laptop.

Luckily one of your engineers offered the registry setting to me before I succumbed to the "return CS4" choice.

If you don't have access to the registry setting, I'd be happy to send it to you. Maybe you could offer it to others in this forum that are in the same boat I was in before they return the software.

[Adam_J...@adobeforums.com]

Here's the link to the optional GPU registry keys for CS4:

<http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/thankyou.jsp?ftpID=4056&fileID=3769>

What's worked for some people is to try using the AllowOldGPUS_ON.reg key. To use it, download the zip archive from the above link and double click on that specific registry key - DO NOT use the other registry keys unless you feel confident that you can get things back to default settings. Using the AllowOldGPUS_ON.reg key will not disable anything in the application.

Once you've enabled the registry, quit and re-launch CS4.

This has helped some people who have reported this problem.

-Adam

[F_Sa...@adobeforums.com]

I just want to check... before trying the AllowOldGPUS_ON.reg ... that if Nvidia do actually fix the driver that will correct this cursor problem, will using the AllowOldGPUS_OFF.reg reset the registry back to it how it was?

[moon...@adobeforums.com]

Dear Photoshop Engineers,

I just wanted to try out Photoshop CS4 and have to say that this behavior is quite odd. I understand that it is a fault of the graphic card drivers, but please also understand the many customers of Notebooks. Notebook graphic cards from NVidia do NEVER have direct support from the manufacturer, the only support we lads get is over our supplier of the notebook (be it Dell, HP or whatever).

These suppliers will NOT update our drivers specifically for our notebook/graphic card for only one program - that is the annoyance with notebook graphic cards. The only way is to use "hacked" drivers from third parties which might result in system failure.

------------------------------------------------
I would like to know what performance decrease I will have with the following settings, each making the cursor display WORK CORRECTLY:

Running Windows XP SP3 with a NVidia GeForce 8400M GS driver version 156.83 on a Dell Vostro 1400.

1. Go to Control Panel > Display Properties > Settings > Advanced > Troubleshoot and set Hardware acceleration to one step below full. It says "Disable cursor and bitmap accelerations". --> cursor display works
My question: What does this do outside of Photoshop
1.1 I can enable Photoshop Settings > Performance > Enable OpenGL Drawing
My question: Does is actually use the OpenGL drawing now or is it disabled?

2. Apply the Registry "fix" posted by Adam Jerugim AllowOldGPUS_ON.reg. (Windows hardware acceleration settings back to full hardware acceleration) Restart Photoshop --> cursor display works
But here comes a problem:
2.1 I cannot enable OpenGL Drawing in Photoshop! Once I do that the cursor reverts back to the "clipping" behavior.
------------------------------------------------

Again: I KNOW this is a problem of the graphic card manufacturer (NVidia), I just think that either you should alert the customers on how to fix this behavior or think of a workaround. All users being stuck with mobile NVidia graphic cards (I guess that's a lot) will probably NOT receive any updates for their drivers (e.g. official Dell drivers for my graphic card are from 07-12-2007).

[Nick_...@adobeforums.com]

And, therein lies the problem. Adobe engineers have made us rely on the competence of the various video card manufacturers to update their drivers so that CS4 will work.

Said engineers were lured into the trap of "Hey, this is cool, let's make it happen!"

Unfortunately, they haven't made it happen for a great many of us who bought the program. Yet, they blame it on the video card manufacturers.

If I could return this program, I would. Unfortunately for me, I tried to work it out with said engineers during my 30-day return period, which has expired.

[John Joslin]

Maybe in the light of the perceived problems they would be prepared to stretch a point. Or you could always appeal to John Nack!

[John_Me...@adobeforums.com]

Just in case it might help someone:

After following this thread for a while, (and being a late-in-the-cycle CS3 user with an NVIDIA card), my curiosity got the better of me, so I installed the CS4 trial and encountered the incomplete cursor.

I've got the Quadro FX 570, and an update to driver version 6.14.11.7846 (11/05/08), which appears applicable to a number of other cards, fixed the cursor problem.

Aside from that, so far CS4 is a delight. Thanks to Chris and Adam for hanging in here. Chasing down emotionally charged issues like this can be a real balancing act, and no matter what anyone thinks about Adobe as a company, you guys are doing yourselves proud. Your diligence is appreciated.

[Rick Moore]

New nVidia drivers came out yesterday: 180.48. Running XP SP3, 8800 GTS
With OpenGL on, the full cursor shows on the primary monitor but the image
doesn't show at all on the secondary and the cursor is incomplete at larger
sizes.
With OpenGL off, the full cursor shows on the promary monitor and the image
shows on the secondary but the cursor is still incomplete.

[Adam_J...@adobeforums.com]

Derrick,

With the latest update. OpenGL off, and the AllowOldGPUs_ON.reg registry key, do you have complete cursors?

-Adam

[Rick Moore]

Yes, adding the AllowOldGPUs_ON.reg registry key, I get complete cursors on
both monitors.

[Rick Moore]

Adam, FYI
On my home machine I have Vista64, OpenGL on, no AllowOldGPUs_ON reg edit. I
get complete cursors, image display and smooth zooming on both monitors. It
works. Also, on the XP machine the image title flickers during zooming, it
does not in Vista. Both machines use the same card, same driver version.

[moon...@adobeforums.com]

Statusupdate: Using "hacked" drivers from <http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/> for my 8400M GS now and everything works like it should.

I still strongly believe that Adobe should do something for those unlucky users having a Mobile NVidia card not being able to get updated drivers from their manufacturers. I don't believe that using these "hacked" drivers is the way to go for everyone (especially for non tech-savvy).

[William_...@adobeforums.com]

I also had the same cursor truncation issue. I finally just got around to looking up this posting. The registery setting change that was provided worked for me.

I do agree that this issue NOT being fixed pretty much renders photoshop useless. :( I'm realy glad the registery setting was posted and worked.

Good luck to all of those stil experiencing issues!

[Chri...@adobeforums.com]

Cursor truncation is an NVidia driver bug. If it is not fixed in the latest drivers for your card, please contact NVidia.

[Mark_C...@adobeforums.com]

NVIDIA did finally release a driver for the FX 3450/3500 which fixes the cursor clipping problem.

Yay!

[moon...@adobeforums.com]

Chris: I don't like that you guys always refer to NVidia. You are perfectly right - The bug is on NVidia's side, but Notebook manufacturers will not release new drivers for the mobile GPUs and NVidia is not allowed to directly give drivers for these special mobile versions. I hope you don't expect every non-tech savvy user to use hacked drivers...

Contacting NVidia is NOT the problem's solution as NVidia does not give support to mobile GPUs. Contacting Dell, HP, Sony (whatever) will also most probably not yield to a result. The latest drivers for my 8400M GS official from dell are from late 2007. I hope you don't expect all users to use hacked drivers. What about publishing an official FAQ page in the adobe knowledge base with some tips for users how to circumvent this problem (e.g. the registry hack).

[Dav...@adobeforums.com]

It is VERY disappointing to see Adobe passing the buck on this cursor problem.

Here we have a graphics card manufacturer that has a serious market share offering certain API calls, and Adobe relying on some arcane document (not specified here) which lays down something different.

If I took this approach when developing web sites, very few of the end users would get acceptable page rendering due to variations in adherence to the supposed 'standards'.

Surely Adobe should take the more realistic view that whatever the standards might say, a big company like NVidia cannot be ignored if its drivers don't fully comply. Especially when the problem was flagged up during beta.

And while I'm having a little rant, can I also say that the new cursor in CS4 is very much less user friendly (ie it disappears against certain backgrounds) than that in CS3 when doing grayscale retouching (of which I do a great deal). Surely it can't be that difficult to include an option in Preferences to use the old cursor code. That would be a pragmatic and welcome workaround to both issues.

Meanwhile, even after all the months since the problem was first exposed, there is no sign of an update to NVidia drivers. Doesn't say much for working level cooperation between two supposed industry leaders, does it.

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

<rev. lovejoy>oh, dear lord!</rev. lovejoy>

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

surely if the problem lies with nvidia, nvidia needs to fix the problem. you see, in computers, specifications exist so that companies creating products can be assured of interoperability. when one company breaks spec, all it does is inconvenience the user because they couldn't be bothered doing it right.

if you designed a website "to spec" (whatever, html, xhtml) but then "spiced it up" a little with something no one else uses, something "proprietary", would you expect everyone else to change for your website? (unless you're microsoft the answer is no... but even then, i notice i now have no problems browsing MSDN with firefox.)

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

in other words, write letters, make phone calls, scream and jump up and down until nvidia fixes their bugs. or HP, or dell, or lenovo. if you don't get satisfaction, what does that say about your choice in hardware vendors? if they can't be bothered to fix their bugs why would you think it's acceptable to rant at adobe for that?

sorry for MY rant, but that's how i see it.

[Dav...@adobeforums.com]

But WHOSE standard is it when one of the few major graphics card manufacturers clearly doesn't adhere to it? Unless the standard is accepted by those who make the hardware, it does end users no favours to rely on the simplistic assumption that you can ignore known non-compliance.

When beta testers tell you there is a new problem with new code, regardless of whose fault it is, surely it is not unreasonable to expect a workaround, not a trenchant statement that it is someone else's fault and then to do nothing effective about it (I measure efficiency as output/input, not by the effort in between).

That's enough from me. If you follow the Adobe line that the rest of the world is out of step and can be ignored as non-compliant, so be it.

[Wolf_...@adobeforums.com]

But WHOSE standard is it ...

<http://www.opengl.org/about/overview/>

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

But WHOSE standard is it

wolf posted it. but more than that, the manufacturers AGREED to it, and then made mistakes (or "updates", or "customizations" whatever you want to call it) when implementing it. that's like breaking a contract. "oh yea, we support the entire opengl standard. see? got a pretty logo certification stamp right on our box! of course, we do do SOME things a 'little' differently..."

without following standards nothing would work together. that's kinda the agreement you make when you get into the game. sure make whatever you want, but if no one knows what the h%ll you're doing, there's gonna be problems. you can believe what you want about my feelings for adobe, but you're wrong.

surely it is not unreasonable to expect a workaround, not a trenchant
statement that it is someone else's fault and then to do nothing effective
about it

i've seen adobe do several workarounds in the past. ps7 had a problem with terabyte sized drives due to a microsoft api bug. they worked around it in CS1. i saw them work around a kpt3 bug because no one was updating that popular plugin anymore. but sometimes it's just not possible. there are some things that underly everything else and they NEED to work as advertised. and there's nothing you can do to work around them, except to disable the features that need the problem pieces.

an argument can be made if it was wise for adobe to go down the opengl route at all. i'm not getting into that, but i might come down on the side that it was probably not wise, for the gains and changes they made. that's not the issue. the issue is now that they HAVE made that change, the video manufacturers need to step up to the plate and fulfill their side of the bargain.

sorry david j, i'm not following any "adobe line". i'm speaking as a pro developer myself (not having anything to do with adobe) who knows the need to follow standards and specs when you're interacting with products that also agree to follow that standard.

[Nick_...@adobeforums.com]

Dave, your post is well-reasoned, as usual.

The fact remains that it's entirely possible that Adobe made some mistakes. I'm sure they had a set date for the release of Creative Suite 4, so maybe some of the components (PS CS4) weren't quite fully cooked. Just speculation on my part, but certainly within the realm of possibility, given the power of the bean counters.

[Dav...@adobeforums.com]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses, which is what I had hoped to provoke.

Nothing is ever straightforward and in millions of lines of code some bugs are inevitable. Overall, I am very impressed with PS CS4 and several little things that don't make the headlines have been a great help to things I do very often. So I'm not complaining about CS4, just challenging the response to known bugs.

I still consider that display of the cursor in PhotoShop is so fundamental to the working of the program that serious effort is justified to overcome cursor issues exposed during testing. And if the culprit (if that is a fair description of the graphics card manufacturer concerned) won't or can't fix it by release date, there should be a fall back position within the Adobe empire to avoid the negative customer experiences currently the subject of this thread.

Something not too dissimilar crippled the Premiere titler on secondary monitors for several versions of the program. That, too, was probably blamable on the graphics driver, but not getting it resolved for several years did nothing for Adobe's reputation in the eyes of those affected.

It is fixing the problem, if necessary by an Adobe compromise, that is lacking, whatever the rights and wrongs of the OpenGL standards compliance issues in this case. And, given Adobe's apparent line on this matter, the lack of any mention of the problem in the issues list for the latest NVidia drivers does nothing for my expectation of anything changing for a while yet.

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

The fact remains that it's entirely possible that Adobe made some mistakes.

I agree 100% nick. and adobe has admitted to finding some problems. but there are others like the 1/2 cursor problem that are fixed in some versions of drivers. the fact that the laptop makers don't want to "waste" time fixing their drivers isn't adobe's fault. that's all i was getting at.

I'm sure they had a set date for the release of Creative Suite 4, so maybe
some of the components (PS CS4) weren't quite fully cooked.

I also 100% agree with that. everyone's had more than enough of my rants about adobe corporate bean counters and suits, i'm sure, but i want to make clear that i have nothing but the highest respect for the intelligence and talent of the development team and engineers.

I still consider that display of the cursor in PhotoShop is so fundamental
to the working of the program that serious effort is justified to overcome
cursor issues exposed during testing.

but that's exactly one of my points david. the cursor bug has been proven to be a driver issue. we're told it was fixed by many manufacturers before the cs4 release. but some makers (specifically integrated vid laptop makers) couldn't be bothered. that's not adobe's fault and you should be screaming bloody murder to the laptop makers to fix their bugs that are crippling your system.

there should be a fall back position within the Adobe empire to avoid
the negative customer experiences currently the subject of this thread.

can't deny that. but it's a huge duplication of effort to make the same thing work 2 different way. that's a design decision, to support a fall back, or not.

I can't speak to anything with premire, as i haven't updated my copy since version 6... :)

[David...@adobeforums.com]

>I still consider that display of the cursor in PhotoShop is so >fundamental
to the working of the program that serious effort is >justified to overcome
cursor issues exposed during testing.

you should be screaming bloody murder to the laptop makers to fix their

bugs that are crippling your system.

While it seems so cut-and-dried to you ... the same is not true for the end user.

The end user who just paid good money for a software upgrade that doesn't work (whereas prior versions of the same software worked fine) sees only that Photoshop isn't working like it should.

The "screaming bloody murder" you recommended ideally needs to go in both directions.

Why?

Because some people don't have options for upgrading video drivers. And because if Adobe recognizes that fact, then they will look for ways around the issue. Software can do anything, given enough time and resources (i.e. priority).

Sure, you want it known that Adobe to be innocent. FINE. We've heard you. Blame nVidia. Now get the software working using a work around or there will be more screams of bloody murder.

-------------------

(to Adobe's credit, and for anyone who hasn't read the entire thread, one of Adobe's engineers did post a work around in this thread - which surprises me that people here are still taking the hard line stance of "scream bloody murder at nVidia" when they could take the softer approach of, "please contact nVidia for a real fix, and in the mean time, here is a nice work around that you can use while you wait", customers would be so much more relieved to hear this line than the other)

[David_E_...@adobeforums.com]

Dave,

The video card manufacturers did step up to the plate during beta testing. Proof lies in the abobe web page with all them tested cards. Correct? Adobe even stated that as beta testing progressed so did the updates to the drivers to make the software work perfect thus ready to launch. Then the launch date came and...........

So, when did things fall apart? Dave, don't get me wrong as I do agree with your point of view. What was the sweet spot to make these tested cards work during beta yet the same card not work on other peoples machines? I do understand that some hardware works different on other machines. However, after reading all these posts about people having high end hardware that is above and beyound what I am guessing the beta testers used, it makes leads me to believe there are other un-noticed issues causing the software not to run right or fails outright to install. DRM issues?

So yes I agree that the card manufacturers need to look at the driver issues. I also agree with the person who mention that maybe the software was not fully baked for release.

With that in mind we all come together as users in this tiny webspace trying to help each other out as much as we can until the software powers to be can iron things out.

Group hugg!!! lol

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

While it seems so cut-and-dried to you ... the same is not true for the
end user.

i am an end user.

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

I also agree with the person who mention that maybe the software was not
fully baked for release.

I agree, dave.

With that in mind we all come together as users in this tiny webspace
trying to help each other out as much as we can until the software powers
to be can iron things out.

yup. i log in here every day to learn and to help out by passing that along. that's what this forum is all about.

[David...@adobeforums.com]

i am an end user.

That changes nothing in what I said. All that says is that you are apparently one of the fortunate ones who is not affected by the problem. LUCKY YOU. Bow out. The issue is between those who are affected and Adobe - and you quite obviously don't appreciate what they are going through.

Take away your working machine. Replace it with a laptop and un-upgradeable video drivers. Pay good money for an upgrade to CS4. Start trying to use it. Then see how you feel. The tune will quickly change.

AGAIN: Adobe has posted a work around. It is mentioned right here in this thread. Adobe listened. Adobe responded. Why continue the "hard line". Download the work around. Begin using it now. Then go scream at those who maintain the video drivers.

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

wah. yawn.

[Lawrenc...@adobeforums.com]

I see that truncated brush as well, and it's not on any kind of late model board. It' not even a PCIe video but a PCI. So Open GL isn't a factor. It won't run at all.

The fact of the matter is that CS4 is not very kind to legacy stuff. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem kind to current stuff either. That or by the release date, everything out there is legacy.