Catastrophic User Interface error in ps11, screenshot included

[Acro...@adobeforums.com]

PS11 and the EXACT same problems in PS9. This image shows the black on black problem of many drop-down menus. It doesn't affect all drop-down menus but it affects ALL font-related drop-down menus, and, for example, the adjustsments panel (but others also). Some drop-downs are fine (white on black, as it should be). Some aren't.

<http://img126.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ps11dropdownblackonblacao4.jpg>

Backstory:
A catastrophic UI flaw if ever there was one. I use "catastrophic" because that's an error message I got from Acrobat 9 PX after I had a run in with the FlexSPY monitor Adobe uses on its software, when it didn't let me use Acrobat until I reformatted. The Acrobat 9 dialog said it can't proceed because it had a catastrophic error, and then the number 142:20.

[J_Ma...@adobeforums.com]

This worries me too. What's the best workaround you've come up with?

[John Joslin]

So, aside from Photoshop, what modifications have been made or settings changed to the "out of the box" Windows UI?

I can't reproduce this with any of the normal settings.

[Free...@adobeforums.com]

My immediate instinct is that this is the OS and not Photoshop.

[Acro...@adobeforums.com]

There is no work-around other than scrolling and trying to remember what I've passed. It's worse now than it was in cs2. For example, in cs2 the save-for-web dialog was okay; in cs4 it's ALL bad -- every single drop-down is black on black.

[Acro...@adobeforums.com]

<http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=windowblacksimplestufffr9.png>

[John Joslin]

[Free...@adobeforums.com]

The fact that a certain problem appears in one application doesn't necessarily mean that application is the cause of the problem. Don't make any assumptions, is all I'm saying. Lots of UI elements are handled by the OS, not the application.

[J_Ma...@adobeforums.com]

Sounds like you need to reinstall the OS.

[Phosąfour dots]

It's been known for ages that certain aspects of mucking about with the OS UI can create problems.

Smart people who want to maintain happy, healthy production don't do it. Or, if they do, they don't complain about it. They go into it aware of the possible pitfalls. If they realize they made a mistake somewhere they know it's of their own making and they do what they can to back out of the changes and fix it. The takeaway lesson is to not engage in that type of playing around without a large measure of patience, resourcefulness, and knowledge about what one is doing.

[J_Ma...@adobeforums.com]

It's been known for ages that certain aspects of mucking about with the
OS UI can create problems.

Since at least 2005, according to OP.

[Myle...@adobeforums.com]

Yeah, but who seriously wants to use black UIs? My guess here is, that it simply interferes with Windows own stenciling method - in many cases Windows will interpret black window areas as "transparent". Wouldn't just switching to a less - umm - black UI provide enough dark contrast without making Windows go haywire?

Mylenium

[Acro...@adobeforums.com]

Again, readers need to read. MANY drop-downs in PS11 are black on black. SOME are as they should be, white on black. It IS a user interface bug due to SLOPPY design, code, and implementation by Adobe. That is what it is. After all these years, Adobe not only can't get it right, Adobe has made it WORSE; there are many more black on black menus now compared to PS9. This is from a $1000 software package, people. This isn't some freebie thing you download from the internet. One sure has to wonder how this keeps getting by, nevermind the plethora of internut excuses I have seen here already, which is funny (nevermind nonsensical). It's as if some here make excuses so to further buggy software. Makes no sense to me. But then I'm not a barfly here.

ADOBE. Listen to me. FIX THIS! NOW!

[J_Ma...@adobeforums.com]

Are you seeing this "bug" after you change the appearance settings back to white? May I suggest a compromise ("buh"?) and switch to gray.

[John Joslin]

ADOBE. Listen to me. FIX THIS! NOW!

You have a non-standard Windows UI. Why should they?

[Phosąfour dots]

How come you're the only one bawling about it, Acro?

Seems to me that if the problam was widespread, this thread's "Me Too" factor would be breaking into triple digits by now.

[J_Ma...@adobeforums.com]

Because he's asked so nicely.

[J_Ma...@adobeforums.com]

Too much noise to ascertain the signal, Phos. Unfortunate.

[Acro...@adobeforums.com]

JMaloney, the window text is gray (not exactly white). That would then render the NOW CORRECT "white" on black as gray on gray. Invisible. There is no "gray" that is light enough to see hard-coded black text than doesn't then mask the correct "white" text. I realize this is a difficult concept for some here to grasp, but it is nothing short of a very stupid bug that Adobe needs to fix -- the ONLY thing to do is to correct the bug. Adobe needs to correct this NOW.

[Buko]

Acro you have obviously F_cked up your machine and now you are upset with Adobe. Have you posted a thread where you are not whining about something you screwed up?

[Curvem...@adobeforums.com]

That's not catastrophic at all.
Real serious bugs are things like crashes.
Only time you'd see your problem is with a black menu background.
Leave your settings alone, and you won't see this problem at all.
Lots of luck getting Adobe to pay attention anyway, with that attitude!

[Free...@adobeforums.com]

I just want to humbly repeat what I said in an earlier post:

The fact that a certain problem appears in one application doesn't necessarily mean that application is the cause of the problem.

This is obvious to anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of how computers work. Why is this simple concept so hard to grasp Acro?

[PECour...@adobeforums.com]

To submit a bug, use the bug report form, instead of a user-to-user forum. <http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform>
Be articulate, state your whole setup so that QA can replicate the issue; explain WHY you change the UI of windows; HOW the "bug" affects your workflow...

[Acro...@adobeforums.com]

LARTs for all. This is basic stuff, people but it's obvious you have no clue how this is done. It all has to do with system colors -- you feed a windows API with a color constant (say, "window") and out pops the color that the user HAS CHOSEN for the window color (see my images above). Same for the window text color, or whatever object. This API get-me-the-user-color is a very old technology dating back to the beginning. I don't use it; all my apps allow the user to select colors by whim, as do most professional apps today (and I mean settings which affect ALL colors areas at once (menu, text, etc), not one-menu-at-a-time nonsens which gets wiped on a Perfs reset). Back to the CATASTROPHIC flaw which Adobe can't/won't correct: what the Adobe team (probably very low level guys gets this UI stuff -- it is awfully crude and without any consistency when you think about it, but I've seen much worse) has done is either NOT supplied the correct constant (i.e., not asking for window text but some other object's color), OR, it has hard-coded black in as the text (i.e., set in stone). Since I don't see any other operating system setting that changes the text color (on all those messed-up drop downs), I'll conclude that Adove has hard-coded black as the text color (for those drop downs that are messed up -- some are not). This is an error an amateur would make. The difference is, even an idiot could have, should have, fixed this by now. This problem was there in 2005 (very likely before, too), and it's there now, at the end of 2008.

Black windows are very common. It happens that MS chose white as the window color. For most people that use computers (and are not under bright lighting), say in offices, or low-light areas, black backs is the norm. The bright white is very tiring on the eyes. It's like looking in an overhead project's lens, compared with reading a (white) paper, which is reflected light. Then again, most people stick to defaults -- because that's all they know (witness the guy who didn't even know how to change the window color).

[John Joslin]

For most people that use computers (and are not under bright lighting),
say in offices, or low-light areas, black backs is the norm.

Well I've been around work areas with hundreds of workstations and I can assure you black is not the norm.

Once again, we are users here and not interested in your whining. If you want Adobe's attention here's the link:

<http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform>

Now leave us in peace – nobody's going to sympathise with you.

[Ho]

If you want to have a more attractive interface (assuming you're using XP), use the MS Zune skin. It doesn't conflict with CS2. Don't know about CS4.
<http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=88358352jg2.gif>

[J_Ma...@adobeforums.com]

Does red work?

[John Joslin]

Hey, I resent that remark!

[Jim_J...@adobeforums.com]

ADOBE. Listen to me. FIX THIS! NOW!

Acro Bat. Listen to me. YOU ARE IN THE WRONG FORUM!

You already posted this nonsense in a previous thread and you were already directed where you should go. <http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?14@@.59b6e214/6>

The fact that you persist in whining to fellow users who have no control over the development of the app indicate that you are even more clueless than the Adobe engineers that you criticize.

I appreciate if you are offering these bug reports to fellow users as a warning to prevent purchasing CS4. But most intelligent people will often wait for a .1 release and/or a trial version before purchasing.

[Bart_...@adobeforums.com]

Hey, I represent that remark too!

[Dav...@adobeforums.com]

Can't see any mention here of adjusting the user interface brightness in Preferences. Have you tried that?

[Acro...@adobeforums.com]

Probably because there is no seeing this interfeace brightness settings in Prefs. If that is there (where?), how is it going to affect, for the better, hard-coded black text (on MOST, but NOT all, drop-down menus) on a black background? The problem is Adobe has been very sloppy when doing the UI. I can see why it's replaced by the ribbon in cs5. Menus are like single-shot muskets. I could go on, but black on black is the main problem right now that needs to be FIX RIGHT NOW!

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

don't worry. if you report it, i'm sure they'll get right on it and it'll be ready in time for cs5.

[J_Ma...@adobeforums.com]

CS4.3?

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

4.5, that one'll cost ya! ;)

[Bria...@adobeforums.com]

Works mostly as expected for me... CS4, Vista, "High Contrast Black" display theme.

<http://luxography.ca/tmp/pscs4_black_menus.png>

You're probably just doing it wrong, Acro Bat.

[PECour...@adobeforums.com]

This problem was there in 2005 (very likely before, too), and it's there
now, at the end of 2008.

Did you report it in 2005?

[Acro...@adobeforums.com]

Again, readers need to READ. SOME drop-downs are fine (white on black). MANY are black on black. The font-menu is the main culprit for many years now. In ps11 the disease has progressed and has infected MANY MORE places, like the save-for-web dialog (all drops downs are invisible).

I've already shown the simple way to re-create this long-standing bug in the screen shots above using a standard, typical XP theme. One needs only change the bottom (window) settings, for background and text colors.

I realize this is very difficult for some here to grasp, but that's to be expected in a user-luser forum like this.

[Phosąfour dots]

Never had any problems on my Macs.

:)

[J_Ma...@adobeforums.com]

<http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1kdrM8t8wSFCLuoREh9KXPPJkt0w0>

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

[J_Ma...@adobeforums.com]

I always say, "if you want a raise, just scream at your computer". Your man's about to be CEO. ROFL!

[Acro...@adobeforums.com]

Since there's so much continuing interest, here's a shot of the save-for-web-guess-where-it-is panel

<http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ps11dropdownblackonblacdi2.jpg>

(This won't display on a Mac so mac users return to your pen.)

[Chri...@adobeforums.com]

Why wouldn't a JPEG image display on a Macintosh? That makes no sense.

And how exactly have you hacked your OS to try and display black menus?

[Ho]

Excellent question, Chris, and welcome back. :)

Acro, are you using any 3rd party skins on your pc? If not, WHICH "standard, typical XP theme" are you having this issue with?

[John Joslin]

He said he just modified the "Appearance" settings in Windows.

I suppose if you look hard enough there are plenty of settings that will make menus unreadable. What I can't fathom is why people need to proclaim their individuality by messing around with a perfectly functional UI. :(

[Free...@adobeforums.com]

Dave, that's just beautiful...keep them coming.

While the first one is clearly picking up where Samuel Beckett left us hanging, I think I can detect a hint of Francis Bacon in the second.

This made my day XD

[Free...@adobeforums.com]

John,

I think you'll agree that this is well beyond "proclaiming individuality". What we're seeing here is "me against the world".

[PECour...@adobeforums.com]

"How exactly have you hacked your OS to try and display black menus? "

Chris, he selected Black as the window color, and it seems that the drop down menus of Photoshop are influenced by that setting, while the font color for the menu does not automatically switch to white to be readable.

[Bill...@adobeforums.com]

Thank you for the nice art work.

Bill

[Chri...@adobeforums.com]

PEC - I'm not so sure about that. We tested with the shipping Windows themes and custom mangling of the themes. I'm really not sure how he could get Photoshop to show what that screenshot shows. (maybe if he set every color in the theme to black?)

[Bria...@adobeforums.com]

From my own tinkering, the only fix I can suggest is to render the font samples using the same colour as the font name menu item. Right now, it appears that the font preview text is always rendered in black. There are other menus that ignore the UI colour selection and always render dark-on-light, but that's squarely in the consistency/aesthetic realm rather than a usability/functionality bug.

[PECour...@adobeforums.com]

Chris, I remember fiddling with themes some time ago, I was just disturbed by the colors of the icons, not by menus readability, but it was pre-CS4. I remember seeing odd stuff on windows with windows classic mode. (drop down menus too white) in CS3. XP theme always seemed more "solid", but not as customisable as Classic (I get smaller windows frames, and less disturbing colors)

Acro, could you go step by step, from the default XP theme, and try to explain when the menu "fails"? There is nothing custom in your install (no Powertoys, windows blinds, etc?)
Can you confirm that you had similar issues with previous versions?
Did you try on another machine, to confim that the bug is not in your windows install?

[Acro...@adobeforums.com]

I've already said how to do it back in #5

<http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=windowblacksimplestufffr9.png>

change the window to black and the text to gray. Nothing else needs to be done, though a restart won't hurt. To refresh those with heads in the sand, I get this for those two simple changes:

<http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ps11dropdownblackonblacdi2.jpg>

Here it is when I change the window BG to red and the text to yellow, I get this

<http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ps11dropdownblacknotyelbt5.jpg>

As you can see, there are menus with yellow on red (these are the correct menus), black on red (those are the wrong ones, which are ALL OVER THE PLACE), and then there's that funky regular system menu right BETWEEN the yellow on red (smoothing menu) and the black on red (font weight), in this example.

Yes, it's been like this for years, only is much worse now. Many more menus are hard-coded to use black as the text color.

[John Joslin]

Why are you telling us this?

You have already been told how to contact Adobe.

[Acro...@adobeforums.com]

Already have, ignorant one. Head in sand, etc. If you don't want to hear it, don't read it. Nothing more to it. If you want to blow more fuses, if you have any left, keep on reading.

- - - -

[Phosąfour dots]

getamac.

XD

[J_Ma...@adobeforums.com]

I don't know Phos. I have this Mac <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2079/2236085190_074e13f89a.jpg?v=0>, and I can't seem to get PS running on it. ADOBE FIX THIS NOW! ;)

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

have you zapped the pram jm? :)

[Acro...@adobeforums.com]

[boblevine]

Acro...you are violating the TOS you agreed to by spamming this forum
with the same message over and over.

You've managed, in the brief time you've been here, to come of as
nothing but a whiner with little or no credibility.

This is your only warning, stop it now.

Bob

[Acro...@adobeforums.com]

Look Levine, these trolls are in here causing the problem you are getting so bent out of shape over. You have already shown your inability to understand the VERY SIMPLE, STUPID BUG that has existed for years, by calling it, and me, a baseless complaint/complainer, right before you killed my original thread (again, thanks to your homeboys, who you can't see make this place a joke).

It's obvious that CS4 is as buggy as they come, and it's obvious it was released WAY BEFORE its time. Now, LOOK at this (I've posted it for you to READ) -- don't bury your head and say, no,no, there is no catastrophic bug, no, no. Try and understand how stupid a bug this is, and after all these years. It will be there next time, and next time, and next time.

And this isn't even about the other bugs I've found. CS4 (PS11) is so buggy it's outrageous. Nothing this bad, and I mean BAD as in terribly bad quality, should ever be put out to the public. EVERYTHING is SO SLOW. Jerky laggy windows that seem to be stuck on with glue; windows that redraw over redraw (with transparent grid showing through) as if the lights are about to go out; controls that sometimes DON'T WORK one time, and I have to close the file/reload; OpenGL working fine then all of a sudden turning off, either for evertthing, or just ONE FRICKIN' WINDOW (man, that's really pathetic), and I can go on and on, but what's the point?

Adobe can't fix these problems, or it would have already, before this mess was released. And these boards? It just goes to show that Adobe has gone waaaay downhill. It needs to hire competent people. Whoever is there now should be fired. You too, but I doubt you get paid to do this. I mean, it's got to be the worst thing to do, and idiot could do it. Right, that is obvious.

----------

<http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=windowblacksimplestufffr9.png>

<http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ps11dropdownblackonblacdi2.jpg>

<http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ps11dropdownblacknotyelbt5.jpg>

- - - --

So Levine, you and your homeboys can down another bottle in celebration. Surely you are as drunk as a skunk to not see those idiots for what they are.

I'm outta here, what a waste of my time.

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

stop whining and change your interface colors.

[jca...@adobeforums.com]

I'm outta here, what a waste of my time.

Well, yeah. But some of us found it entertaining (thank you, Dave, for those gifs). Does this mean you won't be back?

stop whining and change your interface colors.

While this would work, he clearly doesn't want to do the simple thing that would solve (one of) his problems.

I admit that I change my UI colors but only slightly. I can't deal with giant white backgrounds (too bright) so I make them a shade of grey. Never had a problem with it.

[boblevine]

Read only...though why anyone would want to is beyond my comprehension.

Bob