Question about Layer Sets

[Kent_...@adobeforums.com]

I am working a homework assignment from a lesson book out of Photoshop 7 and I am working in Photoshop 11(Adobe Photoshop CS4), was the terminology changed? I cannot find anything relating to Layer sets in any of the CS4 reference books or materials.

Kent

[Neil_...@adobeforums.com]

Kent,

One side note here...

Use a lesson book for the Photoshop version you have. Between versions, capabilities are added, changed in their implementation, and...sometimes taken away.

You're four versions apart between the book and the software. It's like learning how to take care of an 2009 car with a 1989 manual.

Neil

[Ed Hannigan]

I believe they now call them Layer Groups.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Yes, terminology does change, and it has once again in CS4. For instance, now we don't have palettes anymore, they're called panels now, etc.

What Neil says.

[Kent_...@adobeforums.com]

Neil,
unfortunately this is a homework assignment from a college class and the computers in the lab have Photoshop 7 on them. My computer at home has CS4. Since the computers at school are breaking down all the time and have very strange problems at times I prefer to use the Mac at home which is much more reliable. I am actually taking a Final Cut Pro class and Adobe photoshop is one of the homework assignments.

Kent

[Kent_...@adobeforums.com]

Ed,

Thank you for your reply. I will now substitute Layer Sets with Layer Groups. Hopefully CS4 is backward compatible with Photoshop 7. :-}

Kent

[Kent_...@adobeforums.com]

Well hopefully my 1989 instructions will work with my 2009 software. so far I am on Lesson 4 and have managed the first 3 lessons without to much of a hitch. The last software I used was Fireworks so it was not to much of a transition, this software seems to have a lot more features and easier to use then Fireworks.

Hopefully I will get back to FCP (Final Cut Pro) since that is the main focus of the class.

Kent

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Well hopefully my 1989 instructions

Photoshop 7 came waaaaaaaaaaaaaay later than that. :D

Hopefully CS4 is backward compatible with Photoshop 7

CS4 will read Photoshop 7 files without a hitch. Not necessarily the other way around.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

Always make sure that you have checked Maximize File Compatability in the Prefs if there is any possibility that you will need to open a file in an earlier version of Photoshop.

That way, you should at least be able to open a composite layer — even if other layers are not compatible with the older version.

[Kent_...@adobeforums.com]

Ann,

Thank you for the advice. I would not get much credit if the professor could not open it up in Photoshop 7. :-) How do you put it in compatibility mode? I can find the different saves in different file formats just not that one.

Kent

[Ed Hannigan]

It's in Edit>Preferences>Maximize....(I'm going by my copy of CS)

Please be aware that features that appear in CS4, such as Smart Objects, but not in PS7 will not open in PS 7.

[Mark_R...@adobeforums.com]

Ok Kent, serious and hopefully complete advice for you…

Maximize compatibility in CS4, is an option which comes up and you save the file in PSD format. Its OK, mone of the features that you have in CS4 will prevent the file being opened with 7. If you turn maximize on when yoi save, you can open anything. As Ed says avoid using Smart Objects, the "vibrance" adjustment LAYER, or the new feathering feature in the masks panel. There may be one or two other things

Sets are now called Groups - they work exactly the same way, just a different name. Layer styles haven't changed, file structure luckily hasn't changed much - main changes have been interface changes which don't affect your files.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

What sort of school has its students working in Photoshop 7.x in March of 2009? :/

No need to answer that rhetorical question.

[Kent_...@adobeforums.com]

Well it is Houston Community College. As far as Smart Objects and vibrance adjustments that is not in the Homework assignment (Remember I am learning Photoshop 7 for class) When I become an expert user I will be opening all my projects in Photoshop 11. :-)

Kent

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

I think that we all concerned only that you might have inadvertently used some of the CS4 tools which were never part of PS7 and that you file might not re-open on the school computers as a result.

Houston are going broke are they — that they can't afford to update the software that they use to teach a fee-paying class?

:(

[Chri...@adobeforums.com]

We work really hard to keep the file backwards compatible. Not all items may remain editable if you go too far back (smart objects, new adjustments, etc.), but most of the file will be there.

[Kent_...@adobeforums.com]

Ann,

The school is teaching us final Cut Pro. We just need to know the basics of Photoshop to learn to make backgrounds for our videos. I don't think the even offer a class in photoshop at the school.

Kent

[Neil_...@adobeforums.com]

Kent,

I think you've been given some good advice here.

But for the future, I would suggest that you should check that any software courses you take use current versions on relatively modern computers so that you and your tuition dollars get their maximum benefit.

While Photoshop 7 is old (my 1989 reference was an exaggeration), it is still four versions back, and as you know, there are changes and additions to their features and their implementation.

I hope that the FCP course you are taking uses current software.

Please come back with any additional concerns.

Neil

[Mark_R...@adobeforums.com]

Rubbish - ignore all that. Sounds like a college minding its probably limited resources in a sensible way.

Its still possible to learn Photoshop very well with version 7. Things haven't changed that much, 80% of the application, all the base tools and functionality are there - from a learning standpoint there's been tweaks only since.

[Neil_...@adobeforums.com]

Mark,

Yes, while I understand that the essentials of Photoshop are the same or similar, I wouldn't classify my viewpoint as "rubbish". Why should I pay to learn older software, when I can pay the same to learn the new and get an introduction to added capabilities or changed workflows?

Neil

[Mark_R...@adobeforums.com]

… and you might find you prefer driving it. No-one at college level is going to have anything to do with anything as sophisticated as "workflows"

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

I would go even further than Neil and say that, UNLESS a college uses the most recent version of software, your tuition fees would be better spent on buying the software for yourself 用lus a selection of the best books on the subject and/or membership at Lynda.com.

[Mark_R...@adobeforums.com]

- I think I'll band my head against the wall

[Neil_...@adobeforums.com]

Mark,

… and you might find you prefer driving it.

And although automatic transmissions have been around since WWII, I've only bought cars with stickshift since 1973. But it's by choice. And I still know how to drive an automatic when I have to. <g>

No-one at college level is going to have anything to do with anything
as sophisticated as "workflows"

No strong argument from me there. But a lot of folks take computer software courses not just to learn how to retouch Aunt Minnie's old wedding photos or design business cards (!), but as a way to add as valuable job skills to their résumés. Sure, learning Photoshop v7 is far better than nothing; but not as good as learning CS4...or CS3. If my tuition could buy either course, why start with v7?

Please note, the only good that comes out of banging your head against the wall is how it feels when you stop! <g>

Neil

[Mark_R...@adobeforums.com]

I still profoundly disagree with suggesting to Kent Harris, that his college is in some ways failing him by not have the most recent (buggy on Windows) version of Photoshop. I still think that the chances of anyone from scratch, being able to benefit from, learn and make use of the few changes in CS,2,3 and 4 are fairly slim.

When I went to college there was one very slow old computer with photoshop 2 on it, didn't stop me.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

You are teaching people to edit digital images … and you are prepared to forego the use of ACR 5.3?

I would want my tuition fees back for that reason alone!

[Mark_R...@adobeforums.com]

"and you are prepared to forego the use of ACR 5.3? " yep they learn to use Curves, selective colour and Channel mixer. Thats the manual gear shift way - they will learn it better. Finer points of quality are of no value for learning

[Neil_...@adobeforums.com]

Mark,

I appreciate your Photoshop response, but let's just agree to disagree on this issue.

Now, as for sticking automatics into Formula 1 cars, I agree.

Next week: the pros and cons of paddle shifters in the slick and pricey M-B Mclaren...

Neil

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

Mark:

If you look at ACR more closely, you will see that Curves and white and black points retain all of their importance and a student is STILL going to learn about those things in addition to learning about both the basic and advanced tools and features in Photoshop CS4 itself.

I have always believed that students, in any discipline, should be provided with the best possible tools or how can they begin to explore the possibilities?

One exception: I don't recommend a Ferrari for a learner-driver.

[Mark_R...@adobeforums.com]

I think your forgetting exactly how advanced Photoshop was at 7. If you look at ACR more closely, you will see that Curves and white and black points retain all of their importance attempting to patronise your opponent to retrieve a losing argument, is a strategy of yours that's losing its appeal for me. I can assure you I know the full range of options in RAW, and would bet I use most of them a lot more frequently than you do Anne.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

Stop trying to pick a fight where none (yet!) exists Mark.

I agree that Photoshop 7 was great … in it's day.

BUT …
it has long been superceded by the developments in THREE new versions since it was introduced;
does NOT run on newer computers;
employed Plug-ins which are no linger usable;
had no provision for working with RAW images from digital cameras;
had no useful previewing or image sorting abilities;
lacked modern tools like the Healing Brush among others
…… and had countless other deficiencies too numerous to mention compared with the latest version.

Anybody who is suggesting that someone should learn Photoshop in 2009 with the outdated tools of 2003 is doing them a grave disservice.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Using the latest version to teach students is elementary common sense.

Now, if this course is being taught for free in the meeting hall of some poor church…

[Kent_...@adobeforums.com]

As I said before, the class is teaching Final Cut Pro and we had a 3 hour lecture on Photoshop 7. It is to teach us on how to make Titles for our videos and to size photos for a program called motion. I went and purchased "Adobe Extended CS4" I have also purchased a book so I can learn it to it's full extent. "Adobe Photoshop CS4 one on one" It is good to learn the basic features of the software before going to the latest version. The homework is very basic. (How to make banner ads) I am sure once I get the manual I will learn more and hopefully it will integrate with the software Motion.

Kent

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

"Adobe Photoshop CS4 one on one"

Deke McClelland is great.