Re: PS, OS X and Norwegian Apple keyboard, shortcut problems

[Thomas...@adobeforums.com]

Hey guys, thanks. I hope Adobe can soon bring a solution to this issue.

[Nini Tjäder]

Fullsize Mac keyboards have alt keys both at left and right. Printed "alt" on them.

As for the problem of non US-keyboard layouts, there is no other solution as far as I know but to edit your shortcuts and assign other keys than the ones provided.

I've fought for non-US-hardcoded shortcuts in Adobe apps for many years in many different fora and it has become better for some apps in the Suite but we are still not there. I've always run US English version of apps (including the OS) but has to use Swedish keyboard-layout (or won't be able to write either my name or mmy adress, not to mention my native toungue).

I wish the developers would get it into their thinking some time that we are many users who use US English application-versions but are stuck with our native keyboard layouts. Editing shortcuts isn't always what you want to do as you normally lose those between versions and need to start all over again. And some shortcuts are hardcoded into the apps and cannot be changed no matter what.

[Neil_...@adobeforums.com]

Nini,

I've always run US English version of apps (including the OS) but has
to use Swedish keyboard-layout (or won't be able to write either my name
or mmy adress, not to mention my native toungue)

For your umlauted "a", on a U.S. keyboard, it is easily set using Option-u followed by a: ä. Many other western European accents and letters are similarly easy to key -- albeit with multiple keystrokes. But it is not impossible, as you imply.

Neil

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Neil,

easily set using Option-u followed by a: ä

"Easily" my foot! Apple's dead-key combinations were a welcome development when they first appeared —back in the days of Messy-Doze— as they made typing so-called "special" characters a workable possibility; but they are remnants of the Pleistocene these days.

You can easily re-map a software keyboard layout to eliminate the need for dead keys.

Literally decades ago I used MacKeymeleon from Avenue Software to create my custom keyboard layouts, which I've been using since the MacPlus days through today's Tiger 10.4.11.

Typing Option-a gets me ä in a single step, etc.

As a matter of fact, even Windoze's US-International keyboard layout, part of Windows, makes the two-step Apple way mercifully a thing of the past.

[Neil_...@adobeforums.com]

Ramón,

Since I do not do a lot of typesetting that requires accents, having to do a little finger exercise to get those characters is no big deal for me. (And certainly a lot easier than MS's old, bewildering and hard to remember alt+four digit method. If I had a lot of accented typesetting as you do, I would certainly find an easier way.

My point to Nini was that her comment made it appear that it is not possible to extract accented letters from a U.S. keyboard.

Neil

[Morten_...@adobeforums.com]

There are some good hints and tips from you guys. Thanks alot.

I notice that there is a "Keyboard Shortcuts" folder under ~/Library/Application Support/Adobe/Adobe Photoshop CS3/Presets
I would expect some .plist, XML or other form of config file under this folder, but even with my own set of shortcuts, nothing is saved there.

I could of course change my keyboard layout from Norwegian to US English and solve the problem. I consider this an annoyance and a hack as I multitask and have to frequently switch back and forth depending on the app.

Adobe can give us the option to have a multi-character keyboard shortcut. I can't understand why that is so hard?

I've always run US English version of apps (including the OS) but has
to use Swedish keyboard-layout (or won't be able to write either my name

or mmy adress, not to mention my native toungue).

Same here. I prefer this as the US English apps obviously does not suffer from bad translations by translators without care for the meaning of the dialogues. It is just easier to follow support, FAQs, guides and tutorials when you use the same language as the majority of the writers.

[Nini Tjäder]

Exactly. Bad translations and the lack of application-updates were the main reasons I originally switched to US English versions years and versions ago. Unfortunately I need to use Swedish localized versions at work so I still see the lousy translations.

For those of you who are only using English and living in English speaking countries, note that the problem is that keyboards that come with the machines are localized to your area and if you change keyboard layout the layout of the keys do not match what is under them. Does make it hard to work unles you glue something to the keys or create an overlay (remember those?) for the keyboard. That means that for isntance you cannot reach the tilde key (just an example, there are other ones too) but by using yet other keys to get there. That's what breaks the shortcut.

Editing keyboard shortcuts in each and every version of the applications is usally also not an option (and in some apps those shortcuts - if they can be called shortcuts when they contain around 4 keys...) as the shortcuts do not even reside in a selfcontained file that you can move to other machines, but is embedded into other settings. Or hardcoded into the application an unreachable. And not portable between versions.

Changing keyboard layout in Internationl is not an option either.

The only application that is semi-smart is actually Bridge where you can set your keyboard prefs to another keyboard layout than the one you use for the application itself (Bridge is multi-lingual like OS X) and then the shortcuts follow with that setting. On the other hand you cannot edit shortcuts in Bridge. Bridge is also a limited application when it comes to features and shortcuts which makes this esier from an engeneering view I would guess. The other Adobe apps are far more complex in that regard (and if a short-cut would be changed in favour of the international users in for instance Illustrator, you would hear a roar you wouldn't believe from those Illustrator users....those are a conservative bunch).

The only solution that would be a good one would be if there would be no hardcoded shortcuts at all that are tied to one keyboard layout only, the US English one, but would use keys that can be used regardless of keyboard layout used at user end. I've fought for this for many years but so far only with limited success.

[Martin_B...@adobeforums.com]

I can't use å, ä, ö or ¨ for increasing/decreasing the brush size. I can
set them in the >settings, but nothing happens when I press the keys and
have the brush selected.

On a Powermac G5 with Mac OS 10.4.11 and the same version of Photoshop,
those keys >work fine.

Yeah, exactly what people in our retouch department are complaining about now when we switched to Leopard. It worked to remap the keys in Photoshop CS3 when running Tiger, but now - even if the remapping itself seems to work in Keyboard Shortcuts - nothing happens to the brush size when the keys are pressed!

We have:
- Mac Pro
- Mac OS X 10.5.4
- Photoshop CS3 10.0.1
- Swedish keyboard layout

While it would be great to have a more unified way for shortcuts on non English keyboards, at least give us back the functionality that was in Tiger, please.

[Janus_G...@adobeforums.com]

Hi all of you. I have the same problem and I have a Faroese keyboard. And I have struggled to find a solution so I can use the brush keyboard - shortcut to de- or increase the brush size. In my Faroese keyboard it is not possible - but if I go the system preference panel and go to "international" and then push "english" up above faroese so "english" is on top (could be swedish or norwegian), then my keyboard is english! And the brush size shortcuts in Photoshop work!!
Maybe you all knew this - but i didn't!

[Aram_Mäkivierikko@adobeforums.com]

Thanks, Nini!

Do you have any specific often-used, hardcoded shortcuts that won't work in mind? Because for me the brush size seems to be the non-working one I would use the the most.

@jann: can the brush size be adjusted by dragging in CS3 as well? It doesn't seem to work for me.

[barke...@adobeforums.com]

So it basically boils down to this? If you have a Swedish or Norwegian or 'foreign' keyboard you make sure that keyboard is properly selected and then edit the keyboard shortcuts so that shortcuts that would have used the tilde or square bracket keys (that don't appear on a swedish keyboard layout) for instance are reassigned to the equivalent key position on the 'foreign' keyboard. Not forgetting to make sure you aren't replacing a shortcut that you want to keep. I think that's what Chriswang suggested earlier in this thread. It works fine for me.

[Nini Tjäder]

Sure it works. Until the next update when you have to start all over again. And except for some shortcuts that are hardcoded to the English keyboard layout in the English version application and have no way to be edited in the shortcuts editor.

[jann_...@adobeforums.com]

Aram,
It is a new feature of CS4.
Will not work in CS3 .
Also it works at its best with proper OGl ( at least 512 MB ) graphic card ....

[jann_...@adobeforums.com]

I would like to join unhappy swedish keyboard club , and Adobes love of Square brackets and tilde ( My daughters first name is Tilde:-)so I should like it ) is really painful
but - for the brush adjustment I became a visual size and hardness adjustment addict :-)
with CS4 it is so much more fun to adjust by alt ctrl dragging ..
and cmd alt ctrl dragging .

[Nini Tjäder]

They work correctly, provided you have the correct keyboard layout chosen in System preferences, International. Which means you cannot change the keyboard layout to US English if you want access to the swedish keys, which means some shortcuts that are hardcoded to the US English keyboard layout will not work. That's the choice you have to do.

(OS X 10.5.5 US English version, PS CS4 US English version, Swedish keyboard layout).

[barke...@adobeforums.com]

Have you selected the correct keyboard in system preferences - International - Input Menu?

[Aram_Mäkivierikko@adobeforums.com]

Can anyone with Leopard and Photoshop CS4 please check whether the едцЁ' keys on a Swedish keyboard work correctly - see post #25? I'm currently running PS CS3 10.0.1 on MacOS 10.5.5 and still have the same problem.

[Nini Tjäder]

Aram , any shortcuts that contain tildes and other things that need 2 keys to reach on a Swedish keyboard layout won't work in an English Photoshop. Some can be changed in the shortcut editor, but some are hardcoded into the application and cannot be changed. So you won't be able to use them with the Swedish keyboard layout (or any keyboard layout that is not the English one). Some say to set keyboard layout to English then, but that is no real solution as you won't then be able to use å, ä, ö for instance and the keys on the keyboard will then not correspond to what you see and what you type.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Defining (re-arranging) a custom software keyboard layout based on the standard English keyboard layout, should solve such problems.

I have used such custom software keyboard layouts for many years. I can switch keyboard layouts on the fly through the dropdown menu right next to the clock of my menu bar, and even cycle through them via a keyboard shortcut.

I built my custom software keyboard layouts in MacKeymeleon by Avenue Software (now defunct) ages ago, in Mac OS 8 or earlier, and they still work fine in OS 10.4.11 Tiger.

I understand it's even easier to edit and rearrange software keyboard layouts in OS X. I just haven't had a reason to create new ones.

[Davi...@adobeforums.com]

Howdy Morton,

It sounds like you're running into a couple of problems. Let me give you a couple of suggestions to solve them.

First, if you're running the English application with a non-English keyboard, then yes, you're right, you're going to find that certain key-combos are inaccessible. Luckily, there are two solutions you can try.

The first solution would work best for a keyboard largely similar to the US layout, such as, German or Danish. In those case you can click Edit > Keyboard Shortcuts and then go through and change any shortcuts which don't work. It is true that this might not be the funnest process, but you can make sure YOUR shortcuts are best for YOUR workflow. To be brutally honest, Photoshop has SO many capabilities and so many of those are already mapped to shortcuts that we've quite frankly run out of letters! 8-)

The second solution would be to use the keyboard shortcut file for YOUR keyboard's language. At the moment we don't have them posted (uh, yeah, I work for Adobe...8-), but I was told after I read this thread that I CAN pass them out on an individual basis until we get a more comprehensive workaround. They're different between Windows and Mac, so please specify which type you need.

In answer to Nini's message, yes, there are a COUPLE of shortcuts that are still hard-coded, but in this last release we did manage to make many more customizable than ever before. If you have some which are still hard-coded and giving you problems, please let me know and I'll see what I can do (no promises) for the next release. For instance (this one's for you Ann), you'll find that we removed the tilda as a shortcut and standardized channel shortcuts across the various dialogs and widgets.

Hope that helps,
David Mohr

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

For instance (this one's for you Ann), you'll find that we removed the
tilda as a shortcut and standardized channel shortcuts across the various
dialogs and widgets.

I noticed and am perfectly happy with your new shortcuts for the Channels — AND for the ability to raise a luminosity Selection from ANY channel using Cmd Option 2 (and sequential numbers).

VERY nice!

There is one thing we REALLY need though — and post-haste if you can— and that is a shortcut for the TAT (AKA "Pointy Finger Tool"!) in the Curves Adjustment dialog.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Great to see you here, David!

That's a great offer to provide folks having problems with the localized files.

It's always encouraging to see Adobe staff here.

…but, please… "tilda"? :/ Cue Harry Belafonte singing… well, everyone knows the rest.

(Hint: tilde.)

[Marshal...@adobeforums.com]

Paint Brush short cuts.... I am working on a Spanish keyboard and also can not get the Paint brush shortcuts to work. I work with XP and in English, and can not find to remap the keyboard for shortcuts. (My Spanish is not fluent and my Adobe suite is in Spanish.) The only way I can quickly adjust my brushes is have them in the brushes presets and use the comma (previous) and period (next) keys. That is a work around, but often that takes me into a whole different brush style, which I don't want. Any help for Adobe or anyone else? Thanks, Marsh

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

I work with XP

Alas, this is the Photoshop Macintosh forum. :/

[nsn...@adobeforums.com]

Hello David,
I'm glad that you posted with some advice on using foreign keyboards with English PS.
I teach at PArsons in Paris and most of the students and I have MacBooks but with French keyboards, either US or International English versions of Photoshop CS3. Would you be able to send a keyboard layout for French keyboard English CS3 for Mac?
TIA

[Samuli_...@adobeforums.com]

It is great to see Adobe people taking an interest in this. What I would LOVE to see made possible for Europeans is the "select one layer above" and below -shortcuts, which make possible to cycle through layers quickly. As I understand, they don't appear in the shortcuts or menus so I can't map them anywhere by myself. Or they could be an urban legend... :/

As a sideline, "the other program" - Corel Painter X has worse problems with non-US keyboards - it just replaces your normal keyboard layout with the US one and that's it. Corel isn't really big on bug fixes so I suppose that's not going to change any time soon.