Dear Adobe, seriously: PLEASE release me from PAR distortion!

[Thomas...@adobeforums.com]

As mentioned in the Subject, help me out getting rid of the distortion to my images whenever PAR is activated when i create images for Video content.
It annoys me to death whenever i have my clients sitting by and i always have to explain why the images look crappy.

In after effects (which causes the same phenomenon) there is a simple change i can make in the preferences text to get rid of it.

So PLEASE if someone can hear my at Adobe, PLEASE tell me how i can find better sleep for christs sake.

Thank you.

Thomas

[Allen...@adobeforums.com]

Sorry, we are users here, not Adobe.

[Thomas...@adobeforums.com]

know man. but i also know that adobe ppl do monitor the forums, if they'd ignore everything anyone was begging for since the forums exist, they'd never have reached CS4. know what i mean? i'm just tired sending the Xth request to them.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

but i also know that adobe ppl do monitor the forums

Not regularly,

Sorry, I have no clue what "PAR distortion" is. :/

[John Joslin]

Pixel Aspect Ratio?

[Buko]

Thomas, See that contact link at the top of the page?

If you want to speak with Adobe I suggest you use it.

[PeterK.@adobeforums.com]

Out of all those Xth times you sent a request to them (who?), did you ever think to first check the help menu and do a search for pixel aspect ratio? Because it's not hard to go into the Image menu and click the aspect ratio you want (or don't want).
Are you even aware there are menus running along the top of the screen?

[Thomas...@adobeforums.com]

Thanks for reply and special thanks PeterK., probably my question was not clear or you simply did not understand the problem.

here are 2 self explanatory pictures.

[IMG]http://www.filedropper.com/second/6a592e84c5cacf893c71e691469958b0.png[/IMG]

[Phosąfour dots]

The links you posted aren't the ones you should have used, Thom.

And yeah, your question has EVERYTHING to do with changing the Pixel Aspect Ratio.

<http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/livedocs/search/index.cfm?restrict=support&link=&loc=en_us&term=pixel+aspect+ratio+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Flivedocs.adobe.com%2Fen_US%2FPhotoshop%2F10.0&go=Search>

[Thomas...@adobeforums.com]

ehm? ok, i'm not takling of the output im talking about working in the canvas with PAR on/off, but, don't worry people, sooner or later Adobe will change that.

[PeterK.@adobeforums.com]

sooner or later Adobe will change that.

They're not likely to change something that's working as it should. Either you have something messed up in your pixel aspect ratio settings and/or you are using the wrong monitor resolution that is resulting in a distorted image. There is no "off" setting. If you don't want pixel aspect ratio settings, set them to "square." If your image is still distorted, you should change your monitor resolution to the recommended one for your monitor instead of some non-proportional one.

[Neil_...@adobeforums.com]

I agree that it is either an incorrect selection of the monitor's aspect ratio or of the file's pixel aspect ratio. Neither would be a Photoshop-created problem.

Neil

[Neil_...@adobeforums.com]

I agree that it is either an incorrect resolution selection for the monitor's aspect ratio or selection of the file's pixel aspect ratio. Or both. Neither would be a Photoshop-created problem.

Neil

[Wade_Zi...@adobeforums.com]

I believe this is a photoshop related problem with not properly matching the shape of the pixels but instead interpreting them to be square instead of round.

There is a work around that was once described on the Premiere Pro forum.

You might ask there how this matter is solve. Something strange like export as square pixels import as square and then convert to round and the reimport as is.

You would be best to ask at the Premiere Pro forum. But I believe it is a Photoshop problem.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Ooooh! That sounds intriguing. Now I have to google how round pixels work and what happens to the inevitable empty spaces between adjacent circles.

[Phosąfour dots]

I've always wondered whether it would be possible to create a monitor with triangular/hexagonal pixels. Antialiasing would take on a whole new dimension.

[Thomas...@adobeforums.com]

aaaaaahh! guys, we're starting to talk at cross purposes.
it's nothing about the PAR output on saving or whatever, this works correctly as it should.

IT'S ABOUT THE THE POOR PREVIEW QUALITY ITSELF.
The screenshots i've postet shows the difference. it's a PAL DV Widescreen setup, to view the Final (correct) Image you have to turn on PAR correction but the preview quality goes down - this is the problem, whenever my client is sitting by.

To have crisp font and shapes at preview you have to turn PAR off, if you want to have perfect circles instead of eggs you have to turn PAR on and get a choppy look of the artwork.

It's the same issue in AE, but there, in the preferences file is a hidden value you can turn off but it's unsupported due lack of testing by adobe.

got it now?

[Wade_Zi...@adobeforums.com]

Oh well as it the warning says if you want quality turn off the preview and there is not much you can do about it.

It is a good complaint but you cannot do much about it now. Perhaps there will be some improvement in the future if may people complain.

[PeterK.@adobeforums.com]

if you want to have perfect circles instead of eggs you have to turn PAR
on and get a choppy look of the artwork.

If you want to have perfect circles instead of eggs, you use SQUARE pixels. When you use a pixel aspect ratio such as the widescreen one you mentioned, that is when you get egg-shaped circles. Like I said, you probably have your monitor set to the wrong resolution. Either take the hint, or stop complaining.

[Super...@adobeforums.com]

Really, to fix this you should have your final output device on your desk. If you are doing a video or video frames, have a TV (normal or highdef) on your desk, and set the Photoshop preview to use that. I haven't used it but i know there is like a "firewire preview" or something you can use. So then on your computer monitor it can be crappy but the TV will show the actual correct image.
Look up "video preview" in the PS help.

[Thomas...@adobeforums.com]

Wade Zimmermann NAILED IT!

nothing more to say, Adobe goofing around with users, thats the problem.
so will complain till someones eyes are bleeding-
this is driving me nuts - it took me years till i've found out how to solve the same problem in after effects with a single number changed in the preference file.

IF SOMEONE FORM ADOBE IS READING THIS: IF YOU WANT YOUR USERS TO HELP YOU MAKINg YOUR SOFTWARE BETTER- SO THEN LISTEN TO US AND MAKE IT BETTER!!!!!!!

[Buko]

Thomas stop shouting.

Also if you want Adobe to hear you yelling in a user to user forum is not the way. What you need to do is submit a feature request.

[Thomas...@adobeforums.com]

I have to shout because i can't count the requests i've sent since 2004 anymore and many of request agree with several reques from other users but i've never have seen on of the requests have been implemented - they've must have been completely out of sight.

just for clarification. if you own a AjA Kona Videocard with AjA plugins installed, everything works flawlessly, but i don't own a card on the graphics PC.

would'nt you start shouting if your customer is sitting by and you start explaining technical things to him over and over again. my customer isn't interested in technical, he wants to see high-end results in front of my monitor but the software is not giving me the capabilities and degrades my preview horribly.

If photoshop is not able to show a hi-res preview with video formats why are then video templates are given to the user?

however, i'm out of here.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

I have to shout because…

Regardless of why, it doesn't help —ever.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

would'nt you start shouting if your customer is sitting by

If I were your customer and you started shouting, I'd be out of your shop in a second, no longer considering myself your customer.

[Thomas...@adobeforums.com]

i I have to shout because…

b Regardless of why, it doesn't help —ever.

and writing requests tame as a sheep since 2004 brought me farther?

i would'nt you start shouting if your customer is sitting by

b If I were your customer and you started shouting, I'd be out of your

shop in a second, no longer considering myself your customer.

I don't shout at my customers i'm shouting here in this forum because i can't help myself anymore. seems that TREATING PAYING CUSTOMERS WITH RESPECT is one of my philosophy, not adobe's.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Darn it, Thomas. Tell Adobe that, not us. Use the Contact link at the top of this page.

What's the point of harassing your fellow users? You could try showing us some respect.

[Thomas...@adobeforums.com]

ok, i'm showing you people respect and give this thread a rest. hopefully one of the Adobe people is passing by one day and will read this.

PS: just for clarification - if you work in a PAL environment with, lets say, 720x576 restricted to 5:4, or Anamorphic there is NO WAY for square pixels which would mean 768x576 or 1024x576.

The "(new) since ever PAR" corrections for PAL standards in After Effects CS4 are not making the headaches do away since lots of NLE's do not go hand in hand with these "correct" PAR's.

thats why the PS presets are good for, but with that poor way of PAR correction preview i'll go nowhere.

however, good luck and good night.

[PeterK.@adobeforums.com]

PS: just for clarification - if you work in a PAL environment with, lets
say, 720x576 restricted to 5:4, or Anamorphic there is NO WAY for square
pixels which would mean 768x576 or 1024x576.

<http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1Ll4PpRHmYkXHHMv3VyGxDANqtX1>

[Phosąfour dots]

I've figured all along this was a PEBKAC issue.

[Thomas...@adobeforums.com]

hmmhh, think you're funny

eat this

<http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/9964/parmashupev8.png>

if you guys are better in creatig illustration and stunning graphic stills so please stick in your area rather than hanging around with the video guy, but, hey probably you could learn somethig because there's always troubles whenever i get grapgics for video from so so designers.

adios

[PeterK.@adobeforums.com]

Obviously if you set it for square pixels, make a circle, and then change your view to a widescreen setting that distorts your pixels, you will have a distorted circle. In that case, use pixel aspect ratio to whatever setting you need, then draw your circle and everything will be fine. Thomas, I don't know how many times you need to be told, but there's something wrong with your workflow or monitor. I can make perfect circles in either square or non-square aspect ratios.

[Thomas...@adobeforums.com]

NOOOOH!
Look at the pictures for the correct PS preset (NON-SQUARE) and the correct Final Cut Setup (NON SQUARE, 5:4, 720x576, A N A M O R P H I C)

If you work in PAL for TV there are no way to use Square Pixels, see what happens with the Square 1024x576 out of Photoshop in FC - its wrong!

However this was for demonstration only how to set up graphics properly for Final cut.
I does not fix the Problem in Photoshop itself when i will work in the with Nonsquare Presets with PAR Toggle ON but retaining the image quality in the canvas.

is it really so hard to understand?

[PeterK.@adobeforums.com]

Like I said, if you design it with square pixels, and then convert that to a widescreen non-square display, OF COURSE it will look wrong! You have to make your design in photoshop with your non-square preview on. The reason you cannot get photoshop to display the way you want it is because you're supposed to use photoshop to edit images, not make pretty displays. Do you really want photoshop to CHANGE the grey values running along the edges of your circle so that it will look smooth on a computer monitor, or would you rather have photoshop display pixels with the RGB value that you specify? The answer is obvious. If your client wants to see a pretty picture, have them look at the final result on a tv set or whatever the end display will be. Photoshop will not (and SHOULD NOT) be fudging with the values of the pixels just so that your client will see a smooth circle on a computer monitor. Photoshop is for editing pixel values, not changing their appearance on-screen from what their RGB values actually are just to make pretty pictures for your client's eyes. There's a reason that when you start a new document with PAR on, you get this message:

<http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=16kcipcqPIIDFbCNMAFLVGComEZEr0>

[Thomas...@adobeforums.com]

ok, here is one last image comparing After Effects vs. PS PAR preview.

above you'll se AE acivated PAR wihout manipulated preference file.

below ist the same composition with same PAR active, but (secret undocumented and not tested by adobe) manipulated preference file.

<http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/6977/aeparshowgt1.png>
(click to see full res)

Lloyd Alvarez, programmer of known amazing scripts for AE is with me.

anyway, thank you Peter for standing by.

regards,
thomas

[Wade_Zi...@adobeforums.com]

Well now we can see how horrible and drastic the problem is ad considering the devastating consequences of this problem I for one think Adobe should do absolutely nothing about it.

[Thomas...@adobeforums.com]

Adobe should do absolutely nothing about it.

Adobe did already something huge with CS4 and its "correct(ed)" Pixel Aspect Ratios.

<http://help.adobe.com/en_US/AfterEffects/9.0/WS3878526689cb91655866c1103906c6dea-7f3aa.html#WSA803DAFB-1445-4870-840A-4599ECBC3066>

they could've done this ages ago, but it did not seemed to bother much people in the editing world if they'd worked already for years without clean aperture.

most people can't tell inbetween square or nonsqare, nor they have a clue what anamorphic means, and now we'll interpret old-new standards just within a single release of CS?

Avid, Apple, Whoever else, tell them to change the PARs into correct values, not me.

Sorry for bothering people in this forum.
I'm leaving now because it seems that just a very few really have a clue whats really going on here.

[Wade_Zi...@adobeforums.com]

Yes you are talking bout something that is not really the forte of most of the users on this forum even though it is a Photoshop issue.

You are asking what might seem obvious to you to be obvious to other people and that they should be concerned about this. I use PPro but this does not bother me. But I seldom use Photoshop to do much work exported from PPro, I might do it the other way around.

Everyone was trying to help but when given advice you ignored it and did not even offer a reason why you do not use a tv monitor for display to your client.

Also you want to know how to open the preferences so you could change it. I can do that easy and I would not feel confident in changing anything there unless instructed by an Adobe tech. But it does not bother you even though you do not have even a clue as to how to open the preference. So it y be your part where some of the problem exists.

[Thomas...@adobeforums.com]

I use PPro but this does not bother me.

But I seldom use Photoshop to do much work exported from PPro

ok, then please stop complaining about my complaints if YOU don't now where the troubles are.
Hopefully you'll get in one of these situations, maybe you will then remember my name very well.

Everyone was trying to help but when given advice you ignored it and did
not even offer a reason why you do not use a tv monitor for display to
your client.

TV Monitor? man you are making me nervous, without additional Hard- or Softwareplugins this is not possible with Photshop! Get it?

my last sentence here: the only thing that adobe has to fix that crappy resolution of images in Photoshop, because me idiot worked many years in AE with that PAR crap until i've figured it out how to deactivate with help from Chris & Trish Mayer by the way. period.

[Wade_Zi...@adobeforums.com]

So why don't you ask Chris and Trish mayer or go to the PPro forum where there are many uses that bring frames from video into Photoshop or to the AE forum.

Yes you need software and hardware to display on the a TV monitor but some one pointed such as Apple TV or a card like Black Magic Intensity Pro, I have such a card and it has software drivers for this purpose.

I suggest o make your complaint somewhere where the complaint can do some good. Like Here?

<http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform>