Upsizing an image

[Chand...@adobeforums.com]

Hi
I have an image that we want to use as a cover of a book.
The image is a scanned photo. The person who scanned it was a bit brain dead when she did it and scanned it in low res. The biggest size we have for this image is around 800kb @300dpi @ 1.5" x 2.7".
We need to use it for the cover of our Cookbook which is a 7" x 7 1/2 " bleed, or not...also we can use a frame around it.
HELP!
The layout artist says we cannot add pixels in PSCS3 to make it meet the 300dpi 150 line minimum.
As soon as we double it, of course the quality gets diminished.
He said using something "creative" within the PS filters might work. Alien Skin might work, but his trial subscription is finished.

Please, what can you tell me?.
If we could use any other pix for the cover, we would, but so far, not possible.
What would be the biggest size we could go for?
What extra programs or filters can we use to "build-up" this image to usable size?

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[Ed Hannigan]

The obvious question is, can you rescan it?

I haven't done the math (you should think in terms of pixel dimensions, not inches) but I doubt there is any good solution.

Omne poddibility wouod be to vectorize it using <http://vectormagic.com/home>
Some images lend themselves better to vectorizing than others. A vector image can be enlarged infinitely in Illustrator.

[Buko]

Why can't the image be rescanned?

[Chand...@adobeforums.com]

Oh Sorry.
The Image DISAPPEARED! We can't locate it anywhere.
Of course logically we could rescan, if we had it.
We also cannot find anyone who has a copy of it.
So we are left with this issue.
I will send your suggestion to Jeff and see if he can do something like Vectorize it in Illustrator.
We are hoping for the best.
Any other options?

[Buko]

Reshoot or find a new image.

since you are scanning an image that already existed do you have permission to use it?

[Chand...@adobeforums.com]

Yes, it's MINE!
I shot it.
I shot it for this Cookbook, and gave the negs to the editor, who gave them to the cook.... for use in the book. But unfortunately, she cannot find them, she says.
I have a copy of the photo, but it is locked away in a trunk in a storage compartment in America, and I am in India, so it won't help.
THis photo was chosen by our Teacher as the cover photo of the book, so we are trying to do the best we can to use it, that's why the scramble.

[Chand...@adobeforums.com]

Can't reshoot.
Our teacher passed-on 12 years ago. So that idea is out.

[Buko]

Never ever give your original negs to anyone. only give dupes. but I guess you learned that already.

It would be best to reshoot as digital.

[Allen...@adobeforums.com]

Best may be to apply one of the artistic filters because you just do not have enough image info for the size cover photo you want as a true photographic image.

[Ed Hannigan]

Sorry that sentence makes absolutely no sense. That's like me saying I can't cook because my mother died 13 years ago.

I am guessing the image is a portrait of the teacher.

I'd have someone break into that trunk it and rescan the photo.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Buko,

You may not remember Chandi. She had all these photos of her Indian guru. The teacher has passed away and is, therefore, not readily available for a new shoot.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Chandi! Long time no see. :)

[Chand...@adobeforums.com]

Hi Ramon,
I was wondering if I would hear from any of you?
Hope all is well.
Yes, I seem to have these tricky almost impossible issues.

Firstly, Yes, the photo is of my Teacher, who passed on 12 years ago. So no reshoot.
The trunk is not available for anyone... to enter it. DOn't ask, but it would be a LOT of work to even get near the trunk, let alone go thru thousands of photos looking for it.

Any other ideas?

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Chandi,

First of all, make sure to make two or three copies of the image in PSD or TIFF format, in order not to lose any more quality.

Now you can experiment with one of the copies. :D

Again, forget about inches when describing your image. What you have is a 450 pixels by 810 pixels image (450x810), not a "@300dpi @ 1.5" x 2.7"".

The file size/weight in KB is utterly irrelevant. Forget about KB, MB and inches for now.

If I remember you're scanning old film and prints, so the original was not a digital image. Your 450px x 810px image is indeed a very small one.

Another problem you have is the aspect ratio of your image (2x3) is not the same as your intended book cover (14x15 or 2100px by 2250px @ 300ppi). Substantial cropping will be involved.

Experiment with up-sizing the image in a single step using Bicubic Smoother to see what the quality is like. Very poor, I'm sure, as you'll be resampling by something like 466.67%. :/

If you post a smaller version of the image here, maybe the illustrators on this forum can suggest someting, perhaps like using vectors, like a drawing rather than a photograph.

[Chand...@adobeforums.com]

Hi Ramon,

Thanks. I'm always learning somthing new from you.

The man who is doing the photo editing and layout for the book commented to me about Ed's suggesting vectoring it.
I am posting his answer below.

Yes, I did Bicubic smoothing and made it bigger... definitely not book cover material. It was OK but not good quality.

Here is Jeff's reply:

"Sorry Chandi,

His answer is no good...I'm really surprised at his response. You even mentioned that you had a photo. His answer with making the image vector based is used for circles, squares and other shapes or fonts, but not photos. You can not vectorize a photo because each individual pixel is a color shade different than the one next to it.

It's also funny because he really never answered your first question of resizing the image except to rescan it.

Please trust me with the answers that I've previously given you. I taught Photoshop and other graphic design programs at the college level - I'm pretty knowledgeable with this stuff."

So, I did make .tiff copy of the image. Jeff said we cannot get anything good making it bigger. Too bad with this.

I think I will have to trust Jeff's ability.

I can add a thumb for all to see, but I don't know how.

[PSh...@adobeforums.com]

Also, you don't necessarily need the image to be 300ppi, even for high quality.

The general rule for publication resolution is 1.5x - 2x the line screen. If it's indeed 150 lpi, you can probably get by with 225 ppi (1.5x150). If the line screen is actually 133 (entirely possible), that means you only need an image with 200 ppi.

Don't interpolate larger than you need to. "Images headed for publication 'need' to be 300 ppi" is about a big a myth as "web images 'need' to be 72 ppi".

-phil

[PSh...@adobeforums.com]

The suggestion to vectorize the photo was not meant to be a successful way to enlarge it - but to simply get creative with what you have - turn it into a drawing of sorts. The image is really too small to be used as a high quality photo.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Whoever "Jeff" is, he did not understand the concept of making a vector drawing from it.

What that would entail, in simple terms so you can understand it, is having the photo as a background of your file, then having a skilled artist draw on layers on top of that with the pen in order to create paths (vectors) and finally discarding the photo background.

You would end up with something like this:

The vector drawing can be enlarged to size of a house without losing any quality.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

From the same site as the above example:

CLICK HERE <http://www.melissaclifton.com/tutorial-vector.html> for the home page of that web site.

NOTE: this is not a recommendation of the artist or the site, it's just a handy way to provide you with some examples.

[Ed Hannigan]

Chandi,

Sorry, but Jeff doesn't know what he's talking about. If he looked at the site I provided a link to he might realize that photos can indeed be vectorized. Not an ideal solution to be sure, but it can be done.

[Buko]

I had the impression it was of a dish of food.

Can you send me the image?

[Zeno_...@adobeforums.com]

Turning the picture into vectors might help, though I'm talking about Live Trace from Illustrator applied using the Photo High Fidelity modified to use 256 colors, a path fitting of 1px, no blur, minimum area of about 2px. If there are too many colors and you get banding in some areas you could also try cutting the image in two and tracing each one separately with these settings and then joining them back. Of course you'd need to then rasterize it and possibly modify it a bit in photoshop afterwords because you don't want to print vector images with about one million points in it:P

The result should look photographic and a bit artistic but it might just create a good enough picture

[Chand...@adobeforums.com]

Hi Guys,
I went to Vector Magic, thanks ED and turned Papaji into a vector image. It is nice. Not as good as a MelissaClifton, but nice. But it is not what we want. People want the REAL THING! The real photo.
So thank you, all of you, in replying about Vectoring, as well as image sizing.
I am going to put out PLEAS to try and find someone else in the Universe who might have a copy of this photo.
HARI OM
chandi

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

Chandi:

Do you have any other original negatives that include your teacher?

Could you use one of those — together with other suitable images — and make a montage which could be used for the book cover?

[Chand...@adobeforums.com]

Hi Ann,
Nice to hear from you again, too.

YES! I have thousnds. BUT, this photo Papaji posed for in an Apron for the book cover, so to stay true to our word, we would love to use it and it is the one with the energy.
However, there are others of Him cooking and eating...etc... but not like this one.
However, how do you mean Montage?
Just use other photos and make like a collage for the cover?

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

However, how do you mean Montage? Just use other photos and make like
a collage for the cover?

Exactly.

That way, you might still be able to include the photograph that you really wanted to us if you keep it to a small size.

[Chand...@adobeforums.com]

Yes,
Thanks.
We're working on that now. Seems to be the only way to use the photo .
OM