Not happy about Adjustments panel

[Mark_R...@adobeforums.com]

The adjustments panel in CS4 - does this mean that the dialogs now have to live in the palette well and nailed to the edges of the work area? -Deke McLelland has a video claiming that this is true. I'm also not sure about the physical size of the curves dialog, a very complex and important area being shrunk in some way.

Why on earth couldn't an option have been provided here? I guess I'm maybe jumping the gun, after all I've never tried CS4 yet, but strikes me as another interface move in the wrong direction there. Who on earth is it thats taken over interface decisions at Adobe? - they obviously have a Windows background - the point of having the floating dialogs is THAT THEY ARE NEAR THE IMAGE AREA and can be positioned exactly so that the eyedropper is more useful. Its turning photoshop into Illustrator or Indesign, with the continual juggling of a plethora of unnecessary palettes around

[Jeff_...@adobeforums.com]

does this mean that the dialogs now have to live in the palette well and
nailed to the edges of the work area?

No, you can drag them out and make the panel into a palette...

I'm also not sure about the physical size of the curves dialog, a very
complex and important area being shrunk in some way.

The curves panel can be one of two sizes...

I guess I'm maybe jumping the gun, after all I've never tried CS4 yet

Yes you are...you should wait to pass judgement until you actually learn how to use it.

[Mark_R...@adobeforums.com]

Ok, point taken

[rla...@adobeforums.com]

I agree here. I'm initially a bit turned off by the new adjustments panel. They're on my daily workflow and my first reaction was small shock. Have to see how it turns out with some getting used to.

[Wade_Zi...@adobeforums.com]

ou'll get use to it and in the end like me find out you actually like and prefer it.

[Mark_R...@adobeforums.com]

I use actions to bring up adjustment layers, I just hit a command F key and up pops my adjustment layer dialog waiting for input. Hitting Enter then commits the adjustment, escape cancels it. All done with keyboard, incredibly quick and efficient.

I can slide the adjustment dialog anywhere I want it. I'm still worried by this extra really unecessary panel - I bet its not better than my method I've described above, since this new way is going to make me have to FIND the new adjutments panel every time. Theres no way I'm going to want have such a pointless palette open on my screen all the time.

Once again Photoshop spoon feeding updgrades for lazy morons

[troy...@adobeforums.com]

I love how people make angry decisions based on absolutely no experience of what they are complaining about.

[steve_g...@adobeforums.com]

Mark- If you want modal adjustment layers and your current workflow, it is present; and you can leave the non-modal panel hidden.

You can also use a custom keyboard shortcut to bring the non-modal adjustment panel to display (as a docked panel, or a floating palette). You can also make actions that utilize the non-modal adjustment panel or the modal adjustment panel.

[Mark_R...@adobeforums.com]

OK thanks, no-ones actually taken the time to explain this in detail yet - how do you get it to use the the modal adjustment panel? a preference? - i guess you can call the new panel up with a shortcut and maybe this would be the quickest answer.

[PECour...@adobeforums.com]

Mark, every panel can be converted to a floating one. (Drag out the panel)

[Mark_R...@adobeforums.com]

Yes I realise that Pierre, but what if I want the adjustment pane to come up only when I double click the adjustment icon in the layers palette - possible?

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

Making History Snapshots as you go along will do that for you.

[PECour...@adobeforums.com]

Mark, have you seen the relevant info in John Nack's post?

[christoph_pf...@adobeforums.com]

Well, the only feature in the Curves Adjustment Panel I’m still unable to achieve seems to be entering the numeric fields of a point by hitting tab (which has also been mentioned in another thread), but that’s a rather minor point, so I guess I’m reconciled with Editing the Adjustment Layers in the Adjustments Panel.
Hue/Saturation- and Selective Color-Adjustment Layers lose a lot of convenience though if one has to manually enter the numeric fields.

[christoph_pf...@adobeforums.com]

Further search-results in this forum brought to my attention what Russell Williams pointed out in »CS4 : Accessing points on a Curve from keyboard«:
If working in the Adjustments Panel one has to select the Eyedropper Too (I) to add points on the curves.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

These shortcuts work for me 傭ut they took a bit of getting used to:

Highlight and cycle through selected points on an Adjustment Curve by using the + and - keys;
Shift Tab will cycle between the input and output boxes of the Selected Point.

In the Hue/Sat palette: you have to first click in an input box and can then cycle between them using Shift Tab or Option Tab as long as your cursor remains in a box.
You can use the Option 2 (and subsequent numbers) shortcuts to cycle between the different standard colors in the drop-down menu.

[Stephen_B...@adobeforums.com]

steve guilhamet:

"Mark- If you want modal adjustment layers and your current workflow, it is present; and you can leave the non-modal panel hidden."

How?

Somebody forgot to log Adjustment Panel resets as a separate history state so it's possible to create a situation you can't backtrack.

[PECour...@adobeforums.com]

Mark, see: <http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2008/11/configurator_is_live.html#more>

[John Joslin]

Sorry, I thought it couldn't be that simple!

[christoph_pf...@adobeforums.com]

Sorry, I have been unclear in my first entry (number 13) in this thread:
I want to know how – in CS4 – can I trigger the old appearance while editing Curves Adjustment Layers instead of editing within the Adjustments Panel, where some functionalities elude me (list see above)?

[Fred M Stevens]

You can press Backspace when you're in the new Adjustments panel to go back to the main screen.

Also, for those who may have overlooked this, you can use all of the old adjustments still (if you want to click more) by choosing Image > Adjustments > [Your adjustment]. For example, you could open Curves this way.

[christoph_pf...@adobeforums.com]

Thanks, Ann, for pointing out that the cursor has to be located over the Panel. (Bit of a bother though with Curves Adjustment Layers when one has to pick values from the image.)
But the clicking in the input-box with the Hue/Saturation Adjustment Layers annoys me, because it means going from a double-click to a click/move cursor/(double-)click.
On the other hand if You’ve gotten used to it, others can probably get used to it, too.

Have a nice weekend

[Mark_R...@adobeforums.com]

Thats command M Fred. Thats not an adjustment, its a destructive curve move on flat pixels.

[John Joslin]

Cmd + M ?

[christoph_pf...@adobeforums.com]

This thing about the numeric entry fields in Hue/Saturation Adjustment Layer in CS4 really bugs me … and I’ve noticed what I consider some rather mystifying behavior:
When I select a Hue/Saturation Adjustment Layer and hit shift-tab, shift-tab, shift the first entry field gets highlighted – but only once, I have to deselect and reselect said layer to recreate the behavior.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

To place points on a CS4 Adjustment Curve, you use the new "Pointy-finger" tool in the Curves Panel to click on the image and you can then slide the cursor around on the image to modify that point on the curve.

You can keyboard-select existing points on the curve with the + and - keys; and use the Nudge Arrows to adjust their positions — or you can drag the points manually.

[Mark_R...@adobeforums.com]

No where is that Pierre? on his blog?

[christoph_pf...@adobeforums.com]

That opens the Curves-dialog, not the Curves Adjustment Layer-dialog as far as I can tell.

[Mark_R...@adobeforums.com]

Yes, there should probably be an overall "take me to first field of adjustment panel" shortcut.

[christoph_pf...@adobeforums.com]

Steve or anyone else who knows, could You please let me know how to trigger the CS3-appearance Curves Adjustment Layer-window because in the Adjustments Panel-view a couple of functions don’t seem to work the way I’m accustomed to, like
• creating a point on the curve by command-clicking on the image
• creating points on the curves in all channels by command-shift-clicking on the image
• highlighting the number-fields for a selected point by hitting tab.

I considered starting a thread regarding this, but hopefully I can get some clarification by adding my query here.

[christoph_pf...@adobeforums.com]

Unfortunately not.
I’ve just recently installed Photoshop CS4 and that’s the one point that really bugs me so far as it concerns something I use pretty constantly.
But it seems conceivable that I am just overlooking something basic myself (as has happened before).

[PECour...@adobeforums.com]

Yes, <http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2008/11/configurator_is_live.html#more> (nobody reads post 21 ;) ) John speaks about the ability to have adjustment layers dialogs on their own.

[christoph_pf...@adobeforums.com]

It seems I can’t find the post You refer to.
Could You please tell me/us how John says one can do that?

[Wade_Zi...@adobeforums.com]

Christopher the link is right there in PE's post just click on it and it will take you to the site.

[christoph_pf...@adobeforums.com]

Yes, but on that page I can’t find post 21, as only 16 get shown … and in case the number 21 was merely symbolic I browsed the posts I did see and did a search of various relevant terms and still couldn’t make out the pertinent info.

[Fred M Stevens]

Christoph.. I'm not sure what PE was talking about here, but the info you seek is on that blog page (http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2008/11/configurator_is_live.html) he mentioned.

John lists in the "Some sample panels:" section, that you could have this functionality back (modal dialogs for adjustment layers) by using Configurator. Once you install Configurator, you can download the one he links to and then you'll be able to do what you desire. Or you could create your own panel.

[christoph_pf...@adobeforums.com]

Thanks!
I browsed to superficially it seems.

[PECour...@adobeforums.com]

I was making a reference to post 21 of this very thread, where I originally posted the link for Mark (and others).

[christoph_pf...@adobeforums.com]

Actually I superficially read it even back then and overlooked Mr. Nack’s panel »Curves – Dialog«.
It changes a selected Adjustment Layer to a Curves Layer if it isn’t one though; but by (quite clumsily) adapting his Script to set up conditionals to treat my favorite types of Adjustment Layers as themselves I finally got the result I had hoped for and could assign a Keyboard Shortcut.

Thanks, PE, Fred, Ann and all the rest of You.

[PECour...@adobeforums.com]

Christoph, if it is allowed, pay it forward by sharing your script in the exchange!

[g_ba...@adobeforums.com]

> I want the adjustment pane to come up only when I double click the adjustment
icon in the layers palette - possible?

I am going blind here, was this ever answered?

[christoph_pf...@adobeforums.com]

G, I don’t think it was answered definitely, but I also don’t think that it is possible. I could be wrong though.

PE, my scripting is atrocious and I would prefer not having it on the Adobe-server for years to come (apart from the embarrassing fact that the one time I tried to upload something there I failed, reflecting badly on my net-savvy).
But I’d be glad to email You the Scripts if You want to give them a try.

[g_ba...@adobeforums.com]

> I don’t think it was answered definitely

Thanks...put me down on this as not liking how it was 'improved.'

[Mark_R...@adobeforums.com]

Yes, improvements should concentrate on FUNCTION and not on appearance, or juggling things around in the interface. As far as I can see the only functional improvement in this version for professional and advanced users, is the dynamic, within image slider to alter adjustment values. This is a welcome move forward, but when it comes to adjustment layers, in most other ways CS4 has missed the boat.

Another thing that annoys me- why on earth have they introduced a completely new adjustment for Vibrance? much more sensible and efficient to include it as an add on to hue/saturation, with the same color range selection tools that hue/sat has.

For speed, in competitive environments, keyboard shortcuts are essential and not replaceable by user defined flash panels, or tiny icon toggles for essential functionality.

[John_St...@adobeforums.com]

I agree. The Adjustments Panel kinda sucks. Especially because you can't slide the bottom up and make the panel smaller (who needs to stare at all those presets all the time?). ALL the panels have taken a step backward. They were much better in CS3.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

For speed, in competitive environments, keyboard shortcuts are essential

and not at all replaceable by user defined flash panels, or tiny icon
toggles for essential functionality.

Fine, but I will need a far bigger keyboard than my current one in that case — mine just does not have sufficient different keystroke combinations that are recognizable by the CS4 Keyboard Shortcuts.

Seriously, you have the tools in Photoshop CS4 and the Configurator to arrange the GUI in numerous different ways so instead of all this whinging why won't you make the minutest effort to get to work to arrange CS4 to your PERSONAL satisfaction?
-------

Especially because you can't slide the bottom up and make the panel smaller
(who needs to stare at all those presets all the time?).

You can do all of that — if you use the Configurator.
Or hit Tab to immediately hide all of the panels.

[Mark_R...@adobeforums.com]

Don't necessarily need bigger keyboards, just the ability to recognize the existing mac keys would be helpful, one example, F13 to F16. A 'Keyboard type' preference would be useful allowing this increased functionality.

My workaround at the moment is to have 'unusual tasks' shortcut sets loaded.

[Fred M Stevens]

Mark... Not sure if this is exactly what you mean about the Function keys, but see:

<http://www.adobe.com/go/kb405167>

[Lar...@adobeforums.com]

I really like the new adjustments panel! Easy quick and very functional. Thanks ADOBE!

[Wade_Zi...@adobeforums.com]

I really like the new adjustments panel! Easy quick and very functional.
Thanks ADOBE!

I agree Larry GR and I think if they now were to remove them everyone including those complaining here would rise up in revolt against Adobe for removing them.

The people who complain the most are people who complain the most, always. They are born complainers.

[PECour...@adobeforums.com]

Wade, I beg to differ. Mark Reynolds is a photoshop power-user that has been sharing his knowledge for years.
The new adjustment panel made some crucial changes in his workflow, hence this very thread. It is not for the sake of complaining, but to make sure that he does not have to change his whole workflow.

MZ, I hope that I did not step on your toes, but could not let this pass...

[Ralph_E...@adobeforums.com]

Is there a keyboard shortcut to access the Target Adjustment tool of the Curves Adjustment Layer panel?

Having adopted PS CS4 since it became available, and while greatly appreciating the enhancements (of which I'm aware) that it offers, I still find that for the way I have been accustomed to work the panels are a hindrance and I would much prefer the palettes of CS2 (and shortcuts) that were still accessible as "legacy" in CS3.

[Wade_Zi...@adobeforums.com]

Perhaps you are correct perhaps he is a power user I would not know.

But that still does not mean that he will et use to it and that this might be a necessary step for further enhancements that will greatly improve a power users work flow.

Time will tell, but I think from my own experience that mark will find that he judge the feature too quickly and will pleased if Adobe does not listen to him in this case.

When I first saw this i was really annoyed by it but then realized that it was a convenience and save me the trouble of using keyboard short cuts that i sometimes screwed up with which only cost me time and made me loose my concentration, this I do not even have to think about I can go from one adjustment type to the other.

I even made a mistake in thinking that there was still use for the Image>Adjustment>Curves, etc when this panels is all that is needed.

I don't even think there is a need anymore or Layers> Adjustment layers this is going to in the end make Photoshop and very mean and very lean image machine.

And we are all going to be pleased by it. And it will lead to a much bigger integration for the creative suites.

I think Mark will Change his mind especially if he ius a power user.

[troy...@adobeforums.com]

Wade, I beg to differ. Mark Reynolds is a photoshop power-user that has
been sharing his knowledge for years. The new adjustment panel made some
crucial changes in his workflow, hence this very thread. It is not for
the sake of complaining, but to make sure that he does not have to change
his whole workflow.

Gosh, I've changed my workflow many times over the years as software has changed and guess what, muy new workflow is way better than it used to be.

This is original post from the photoshop 'power user' Mark.

I guess I'm maybe jumping the gun, after all I've never tried CS4 yet,
but strikes me as another interface move in the wrong direction there.

He's not even used the very thing he is criticising!!

I found it a bit odd at first, but then going back to CS3 to compare when testing, that previous better version seemed not so good as I remembered.

[Mark_R...@adobeforums.com]

"I think Mark will Change his mind" - well I've been using CS4 as trial now every day for nearly 3 weeks. In most respects its a slight move forward from where CS3 was. In particular the OpenGL screen view certainly has speed advantages. The one feature in my opinion that's a PRACTICAL move forward is the improved color range, improving the quality of its selections dramatically. Everything else is pretty well window dressing, just other ways to do what you could do before.

I do agree that its not wise to criticize until you have tried something, and would concede that I made a mistake there. But having said this, I'm still not entirely happy with the adjustments panel. Luckily I found a way to bring up the old modal dialog when first making a layer, and can work around the panel for editing . In the panel I don't like the loss of the old shortcuts like "reset" and command TAB, and shift command to place multiple points, and a complete lack of a shortcut for pointy finger tool have been ignored.

[PECour...@adobeforums.com]

QED

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

Pointy Finger (strictly speaking I believe that this is called the TAT — Target Adjustment Tool — but I have a feeling that "Pointy Finger tool" is the name that is going to stick?!) definitely needs to have a shortcut.

I do everything that is "Short-cuttable" with Shortcuts and find the lack of one for the TAT particulalarly irritating!

I realise that we can always click "I" and use the eyedropper to pop points onto a Curve but then you lose the OpenGL draggable controls if you do it that way.

[Wade_Zi...@adobeforums.com]

Everything else is pretty well window dressing,

This is not true Mark, and I suggest you give the adjustment panel as they are a chance to help you with your workflow. I do not like to admit it but I am a complainer and I use Photoshop extensively. MY main complaint is that I use Photoshop extensively and would like to spend so much less time using PhotoShop and the best way I can figure this is to make it work for me much faster and the way to that end is a better user interface and a better workflow.

You might find things like the preview for the clone Tool and Rotate canvas and the adjustment panels save a lot of time. And I mean a lot of time not minute but over the course of a day hours.

That is not window dressing.

The Application frame which you probably have turned of, just guessing is a life saver.
The ability to move your documents and tools and panels all at one united way really saves incredible time and frustration even if you use two monitors. BTW I have found that using two monitors one for panels and one for the work area is a true time eater and the current method that Adobe has adopted for us is a much faster and better method, turning your eye to the other monitor makes you loose your focus and each time whether you get use to it or not you have to refocus on your work. What is good about two monitors is that you can have a copy of the full image on the extra monitor and your working view in your frame so you can see the effect of the work being done on the whole image while working on the zoomed in or out image.

Or as with applications such as PremierePro or After Effects. Which brings up the advantage of the tabs as you have have several additional windows of images you have tabbed in the frame tabbed on the other monitor. It will be a feature request of mind to have the user dictate whether those tabbed documents come to the front together, allowing you to work on a group of images in a rational way.

But you might be able to see where this is going. This is a great new work flow in the making.

The reason I encourage you to try this new interface out is not so much as to convert you but if you do end as I think you will liking the interface you might also say but it would even be better if and I found that when Adobe takes everyones ideas and puts them together they get some really important ideas. So the"even be better if" is important to my goal of spending a half hour a day maximum on Photoshop and the rest of the time…well

[Ralph_E...@adobeforums.com]

Ann Shelbourne - 6:18pm Dec 8, 08 PST (#56 of 57)

Pointy Finger (strictly speaking I believe that this is called the TAT — Target Adjustment Tool — but I have a feeling that "Pointy Finger tool" is the name that is going to stick?!) definitely needs to have a shortcut.

Here, here..... The Targeted Adjustment Tool definitely needs a serviceable shortcut.

[Mate_...@adobeforums.com]

I agree, the Adjustments panel might be fun for someone who doesn't know Photoshop at all, but If you're a pro, you don't want that panel to be clogging up your damn workspace when youre not using it! I really hate it and if you make the panel float, then it's less handy then the old window, as it has a very small "x" on the top and no Cancel button, you can't even dismiss it with Escape, so you have to click that ridiculously small x button to close it.
By the way, it even comes up when you add an INVERT adjustment layer, which is insane, as it then tells you that "There are no settings for Invert. Duh." So why the hell does it come up then?

Adobe should have added an option to use the old style adjustment layer window.

But actually if you don't like the adjustment panel, you might as well go back to CS3 as there is nothing else in CS4 that is different from CS3, except some ridiculous new bugs in CS4 that keep you busy for some time, that I won't discuss here as I'm fed up with them...

[Wade_Zi...@adobeforums.com]

You're sure about that?

I think you might want to take another look.

for someone who doesn't know Photoshop at all

I know Photoshop extremely well and I say what you say is a sign of someone that does not know Photoshop well and has no need to work faster then they do.

Tr are features in Photoshop CS 4 that really make work much faster even if you can not get a handle on it and features that have improved its integration with the motion graphics a great deal as well.

Not to mention the promising 3D features.

I think you have perhaps taken a narrow approach to what Photoshop is all about.

I know you don't need motion graphics but Photoshop was develop to integrate with motion graphics.

So these are major improvements even if you have no clue!

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

that ridiculously small x button

No question about it, those close buttons and the miniature arrows for dropdown menus are an absolute disgrace.

If you're a pro, you don't want that panel to be clogging up your damn
workspace when youre not using it!

Agreed. But, on the other hand, real pros run dual side-by-side monitors and don't have the adjustment panel in the way. :/

Wade makes a valid point: Just because someone doesn't use a given tool, that doesn't mean that tool is superfluous. I very seriously doubt that any single user uses all of Photoshop tools, bar none. But get 1,000 Photoshop users together in a room, and you'll find it darn difficult to find a single Photoshop feature that absolutely no one uses.

The one thing I personally found utterly dispensable in previous versions of Photoshop was ImageReady, and yet look at how many users complained when they took it away in CS3! Each user has a different set of needs.

[John Joslin]

Well at least something's better with the "other" OS!

And, if you right-click on the panel's title bar or tab bar, you don't have to grope for the close button.

Ramón is right about every feature having a user somewhere.

[PECour...@adobeforums.com]

What I love in Panels is how they come back when you hover the sides of your screen when they are "tabbed"

[Wade_Zi...@adobeforums.com]

They have a lot of advantages and if Ramón you are almost correct about how real pros work sort of.

First of all using two monitors has an advantage but wasting it on panels is not the wisest choice definitely a time consuming and distracting approach.

I generally use the second monitor to show the who image when retouching so I can review at a glance the updated image as I retouch the close up area of the image.

Moving the cursor across the screen to the other screen and hunting though panels is not the best solution. How I think that all came about is that if you ever saw a Paint Box Suite they usually had a Large Plasma screen on the Wall in front of the Suite Artist and a smaller monitor tilted at 45º or so in the Artist's desktop so he could just quickly glance down to select the tool or what ever he had occupying that screen. Not the same configuration as a Motion Graphics Suite which generally has side by side Monitors and and a Video display over head.

So using the two monitors as I see it from the point of view of someone that does heavy retouching the people complaining about this new workflow one don't see where it is leading to which will make them champion it or they simply are chaotic works and prefer confusion.

But they will get use to it especially when they get drag and drop for photoshop from a Bridge panel off to the right of you main screen right into you open tabbed Documents.

They will talk a very different story when that happens. I know when will that happen, I would like it for CS 5 but that may or may not happen and I might be retired when it does.

So I wish you guys good luck. And of course what I just wrote about my preference is the way i see it and just my own opinion. Time will tell.

Paint Box was great though it did not have layers and very fast. I first saw it in I think in 1994-95 and even back then it opened a 100MB file in less then a second.

If Adobe had that technology today Photoshop would be more incredible then it is now.

[T._Sc...@adobeforums.com]

RE:What I love in Panels is how they come back when you hover the sides of your screen when they are "tabbed"

Was that a joke? That's the worst thing about them. They pop up when you get near the edge of the screen instead of when you tell them to via keyboard. Try drawing that way. The dock jumps up from one side, panels from to other sides.

[Nini Tjäder]

What I hate about Panels is that you cannot have more than one open at the same time (unless you brake them out of their panels and let them float loose on you display) and that they take up an awful lot of space onscreen. Granted they are better in CS4 than in CS3 but they are still not good.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

Nini:

I do break mine out purely because of the need to have more than one palette open at the same time —and I then control the whole lot from buttons on a Configurator Panel.

[Lar...@adobeforums.com]

I also like the 'MASK' tab in the adjustments panel and all the masking options readily available. Neat, fast and easily accessible.

[Nini Tjäder]

Ann,
Yes the need is real for most users in most Adobe apps to be able to see more than one pane at the time. I really hope to see the ability to have more than one pane active and visible at the same time in CS5 without having to brake them loose (I still miss stashable palettes, which not all Adobe apps had).

[John Joslin]

It is always hard to get used to a new way of doing things (and annoying when you can't see how to do it the way you've been doing it for years).

A bit of time spent exploring and experimenting will soon show that most of the old ways are possible but, with a little personal flexibility, the new way is as good or even better.

As Ann reminds us, the new ability to make our own panels with user-defined content is pretty damned handy too!

Progress was never made without change and adaptation.

The phrase "Old stick-in-the-mud" comes to mind! :)

[Mark_R...@adobeforums.com]

Yes the little tabs are annoying when there's so much unused screen space available top left. I just about got used to this now. The way around all these problems for me is to set Workspaces, and one move forward is that these are now quite easily accessible in CS4 with the drop down.

The masks panel SO FAR has only one use really, and thats to non destructively feather masks, and I really like this feature. In some situations this improvement makes vector masks much more generally useful than they ever were. Everything else are not new features and have always been available in better ways with shortcuts such as command I or command L . I would like to be able to feather a mask from the layers panel, so I can avoid the masks panel altogether for this version

[Nini Tjäder]

It isn't always a question of old versus new ways of doing things. Adobe apps have changed UI both in CS3 and CS4 comapred to cs2 and earlier. Some of it adding frustration because the UI got worse than it was in CS2 and earlier (panes in CS3 not being possible to use on multiple screens just mention one thing, plus only being able to see one pane at the time if in pane-mode) and lost a lot of functionality and not to mention screen-estate (think MacBook and other portables when away from their big external displays).

I am personally well aware of all the workarounds and setups with workspaces, but tearing a pane loose from the pane-container just to be able to see more than one at the time is a step back, not forward, as having palettes floating around free on screen/s has always been possible but not the most efficient way of handling panes/palettes as it adds to clutter.

CS4 is quite a bit better than CS3, UI-wise (as I see it), but it is still not really there where we were in palette/pane-handling in CS2... and I don't mean the palette-well (which I hated and never used). The present UI, when it comes to panes/palettes, is less flexible than what we had in CS2.

[Wade_Zi...@adobeforums.com]

What I hate about Panels is that you cannot have more than one open at

the same time (unless you brake them out of their panels and let them
float loose on you display)

Not exactly an accurate statement take a look here…

<http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1rRuRFs4oAtCWfVgvIpSfwMNryC8N>

[John Joslin]

It's not a matter of "workarounds", it's a matter of adapting to a new paradigm.

I'll say no more.

[Nini Tjäder]

Wade, 2 column panes takes up even more onscreen space than leaving the palettes floating free of the pane-containers. I know you can do it like that but I like to have some space left on my MacBook alu screen (when it is off my 242 display at work) to work on as well... My regular stationary machine at home (iMac 20" with extra 17" display) is no problem, the smaller screen on the MB is. And using buttons only I find difficult and next to impossible to differ between the different symbols on them. I need the text too to know which pane I am choosing. Many of the symbols are not all that self-explanatory.

and Joslin,
if with "adapting" you mean we have to accept to have a less flexible UI than we used to have in previous versions (pre cs3) then I don't see it as something desireable which I have to adapt to. I know there are workarounds. I know my way around the UI and I use the workarounds. But I don't like having a less flexible UI than we once had.

[T._Sc...@adobeforums.com]

Adapting? Don't forget that you pay for it. I'm not Hiob, I don't have to take whatever I'm given. Nini is right about the two panel columns, that's even worse. If something worked and is becoming worse you shouldn't just adapt to it and since enough people complained about CS3's GUI, CS4's isn't as terrible anymore, so keep complaining and coming up with better solutions and don't just adapt.

[Wade_Zi...@adobeforums.com]

I don't agree I wonder what you all will be saying about it in a year.

It is reassuring to know you will all change your mind in that time span.

Especially Nini, she always does.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

I can guarantee that I will still be using a Configurator panel in a year's time.

This is only the first version of this most useful accessory and I am very much hoping that it will be developed to support the other Applications in the Suite as well.

I did work with the regular CS4 GUI for many months but, although it is usable, it does not provide the optimal environment for people who only have a single monitor.

The Configurator has solved that problem: One click on a button and a palette pops into view … another click and it removes itself again. And I can have as many as I want open simultaneously — or none at all.

[John Joslin]

An adjunct to Ann's advice on the Configurator panel (which I use and am still tweaking to my needs) is the use of saved workspaces, each with its optimum panel configuration.

With one click I can switch to my retouching workspace, or over to my image adjustment workspace. A barebones workspace with all panels "iconised" against the right border gives a clean area.

Of course, making full use of ACR and the much-improved Bridge also relieves basic Photoshop of a lot of the workload too.

[Nini Tjäder]

Wade - I only change my mind about the UI if I am convinced without doubt and if there is real improvement (like in Bridge). I haven't seen that improvment yet (its gone better from cs3 to cs4 but..).

As for the Configurator, I feel one should not have to use a configurator to get to what one wants the UI to be. And I will not use that until it is out of beta. (I've presently run out of harddisks to test things on). I feel it should be one with the application. Particularly as it works only on Photoshop today as far as I know ?? I don't use Photoshop only. I also use Illustrator and InDesign (and GoLive CS2 and DreamWeaver and Fireworks). The things that I find a hindrance in the UI are there as well (except in GoLive CS2). When (if?) the configurator will work on all Adobe apps, then I will be willing to try it out. I am very tired of having the UI behave differently between the different adobe apps. Granted, it has improved over the years and versions, but we are still not there.

[christoph_pf...@adobeforums.com]

Nini, I would like to recommend that You reconsider waiting for cross-Suite implementation of Configurator before using it; You are missing out on a great new feature.
And so far I can’t remember coming across any complaints about its performance.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

You have absolutely nothing to fear from Cofigurator — "beta" or non-beta.

No need to "test" it because it does not cause any conflicts with Photoshop CS4.

The whole point is that it allows the User to configure the GUI to fit their own requirements; and you can create several different Configurator Panels to go with your various customized Workspaces.

[Mark_R...@adobeforums.com]

As far as I can see configurator doesnt really allow you to fully CONFIGURE the Gui at all. What it allows is the user to make customised panels, which can be loaded into workspaces. These custom panels have the same problems as the rest of the UI (small difficult to locate panel buttons, transparent flimsy movement of panels, difficult to resize).

I think all in all, CS4 is an improvement over where we were in CS3. I just think that generally reshuffling the interface unecessarily, introducing NEW panels (masks for example) without fully consolidating and extending whats there already, is a mistake.

The layers panel for example, with all its power, shortcuts and functionality is flawlessly well implemented at present. I just hope that this doesn't get altered in future. It ain't broke... don't try and fix it

[Nini Tjäder]

I'll have a look at it some time during this week as I am off this week and might get some spare time before regular work hits me again on Monday the 5th (night-work-week then). Any direct link to it?

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

You can download it from here:
<http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/configurator/>

Then there some articles about it here:
<http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/configurator/>

[Nini Tjäder]

Thanks Ann.

[Lar...@adobeforums.com]

The configurator is very cool indeed! Thanks Ann for pointing the way.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

I am glad that you like it.

Configurator certainly does help us to clean-up the GUI.

I have added buttons on mine for the filters and a couple of Scripts that I use the most frequently.

Configurator plus Shortcuts means that I very seldom have to go anywhere near the menus.

[troy...@adobeforums.com]

Ramon said - But, on the other hand, real pros run dual side-by-side monitors
and don't have the adjustment panel in the way.

Unless they are using laptops on location or a single large screen,as many do now.

Wade said - First of all using two monitors has an advantage but wasting

it on panels is not the wisest choice definitely a time consuming and
distracting approach.

But that's how I and many others do it and I find it very fast and easy to use and certainly not distracting, anything but. Not sure how you think it's time consuming, as for me it's the fastest way of accessing the panels I use.

More importantly, what these two very divergent views illustrate is that we all have differing ways of working. What suits one person will annoy another.

[pfi...@adobeforums.com]

I'm a "real" professional - both as a photographer and as a high end digital imager and retoucher. Everyone I know who does this for a living uses two monitors - one for the main image and one for palettes. I don't know anyone who uses Wade's setup. I'm very very fast at what I do, often confounding those in the room with me when they're trying to figure out what's going on.

So far I'm not exactly liking this new adjustment panel. There's no way in hell I'm going to keep it on my main screen, but having on the palette monitor is proving so far to be very frustrating.

My frustrations are similar to Mark's but perhaps a little different and if anyone has a workable suggestion, I'm all ears.

I don't really have a problem clicking on the Curves icon to get my Curves Adjustment Layer, but I really want the physical interface to be on the main screen on top or right next to the image I'm working on. Even keeping the panel as close to the middle edge of the monitor forces me to look back and forth which is just distracting.

Secondly, while I know there are small icons to preview, revert and even cancel, etc. they're just not as quick and easy to access as the Cancel button with or without the Option key. The old dialog box, which you can still access just using the non adjustment layer Curves, is what I'd prefer, and I have a feeling, a lot of other folks too.

Is there a way to accomplish this?

BTW, the two things I do like so far are the 1500 pixel brush in Liquefy and support for Device Link Profiles.

[Wade_Zi...@adobeforums.com]

What you say today of course is not what you will be saying in the future so I know you will be changing your mind.

There is no place that this phenomenon has been demonstrated more then here on the Photoshop forum. I am leased to know that this feature will be making you all more efficient professional and more profitable business craftsmen.

Happy new habits.

[pfi...@adobeforums.com]

Sorry Wade, but you have not made the case how this could possibly help me, and you have no real idea how I work or the level of complexity with which I work. For you to predict how I might feel some unspecified time in the future is pure conjecture on your part.

I've explained in pretty good detail the problem I'm having with the interface at this point. If you have any useful suggestions other than "you'll get used to it", I'd love to hear them. Until then, you're not exactly helping any of us to don't see it exactly the way you do.

I'm not above learning new ways, but so far, I'm only seeing several layers of roadblocks in my way in exchange for a couple of features that don't add a ton of real functionality to me.

[Wade_Zi...@adobeforums.com]

You'll get use to it is a very useful suggestion and there is no way to let you see what I see as being obvious since you cannot see it right now.

I wish you could see it but somethings take time and this is one of them. You are asking me to give you a reason when you are not quite ready to accept the reason as a positive step forward and an asset to your workflow.

It will take time, I hope you have the patience and if you don't there is little you can do about it as I am fairly certain this is the way Adobe must go.

I met someone hat had knowledge of the application frame the new gui and they tell me there were users who also had access that at first hated the new approach and that in a few months they began to change their minds about it and actually found a lot of cool things about it. The users were all very heavy users of many of the Adobe applications.

That is why I am pretty sure with time you will see it differently.

Ok so now you will tell me that you work differently then all these other people so it does not apply. Then of course you are an unusual rather than a typical user, which means the other users will get use to it and probably like it or you will be very unhappy.

That is how I see it. My source is very reliable btw.

Somethings just take time.

[PSh...@adobeforums.com]

The old dialog box, which you can still access just using the non adjustment
layer Curves, is what I'd prefer, and I have a feeling, a lot of other
folks too.

Count me in as one of those other folks! The old dialog box was perfect as it was. After several months, I STILL don't see a single benefit to an "always on" adjustment layer. Not only that, but some of the adj layers have LESS functionality than the previous versions and aren't even consistent with their pixel-altering counterparts. Plain and simple - a step backwards!

I've found you can keep the adj layer panels closed and call them up as before using the layer pallet icon, you can move them around where you want, but dismissing them is far less convenient because you have to manually close them with that minute close button rather than pecking the Return key.

The ONLY reason I can see Adobe taking this approach is an attempt to dumb things down for new users.

Wade-
I'm "used to" the change - I don't like it - the old way was better.

-phil

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

My recipe for taming the CS4 GUI (float all Palettes and show/hide them as needed through a Configurator Panel) works very well for me with one exception — that horrible Adjustments Panel.

It is totally superfluous with its unneccessary list of Presets and plethora of adjustment layer selection symbols—all of which are more effectively managed through the single icon on the bottom of the layers palette.

I have the Application Frame on a Keyboard shortcut so I can flick that on and off as required.

But that Adjustment Panel does need to be modifiable so that we see ONLY the actual Curve, levels, Hue/Sat sliders etc., when appropriate, and have the option to keep the introductory "Add an Adjustment" part of it CLOSED permanently.

[Wade_Zi...@adobeforums.com]

Time will tell! And I am glad that you will all be much more productive in the future.

You have Adobe to thank for it.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

"Time might tell" … Adobe to redesign the Adjustments Panel because it is an atrocious waste of space and is entirely superfluous for anyone but a Photoshop neophyte!

[troy...@adobeforums.com]

Wade, why don't you please tell us all about your superior and much faster method of working where you don't waste a second monitor on all those pesky pallettes?

Also constantly repeating you'll get over it without explaining why it is better, is simply annoying and a tad patronizing. Adobe has tweaked the interface numerous times and sometimes has reverted to the previous method or dropped new features as the 'improvements' turned out to be waste of time.
Some new tweaks do indeed take some adjustment, however some simply are not an improvement. For me, I'd rather the adjustment panel vanished when not being used, but as it takes up so little space on my very useful second monitor, I'm not that bothered. However when using a laptop when space is a premium, then less pallettes is a good thing.

[Mark_R...@adobeforums.com]

Colour work is usually something you generally need to do CAREFULLY, and precisely. Related to this, a more serious problem compared to CS3… the Scrubby sliders, especially with the option and shift shortcuts do not refresh properly any more. On higher res files the sliders and curve points don't seem to move that smoothly, being held up perhaps by graphics card refresh?

Having said all this, the new panel is actually useful for some limited tasks , but has enough problems at present that its good to have the old option still… Pfigen, the old dialog is actually still available if you are prepared to work through Actions, a copy of CS3, and F key keyboard shortcuts. I posted the solution for this in another thread.

Unfortunately Its not accessible in an easier way through the interface anymore.

To try and be constructive… an improvement would be this: • Either a menu item for creating a new adjustment with the modal dialog, and editing an existing adjustment, so that this could be Actioned more easily. • Or even better, a Preference, or maybe a toggle on the adjustment panel drop down, bringing back the old behaviour.