Help with unexpected change color

[Tom_ad...@adobeforums.com]

Hi
I open in Photoshop CS4 a simple JPG file and the color changes and I need to keep the same native color.
If I open with preview application in my Mac then the color is correctly and no change is there.
I know is a color profile problem but any choice I use in the start up Missing profile window doesn't works. ("The indexed color document "xxx.png" has a file format that does not support embedded color profiles, what would you like to do?, Leave as in (don't color manage), Assign working RGB: Adobe RGB (1998), Assign Profile... large list..)
NOTHING WORKS!!!! always change the tone color... if I open the image in Preview and make a copy/paste to Photoshop it lost the color tone again.
Can someone help me to fix this?
Thank you.
Tom

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Calibrate and profile your monitor regularly and often. Even the cheapest hardware calibrator puck will give you better results than Apple's built-in eyeball calibrator.

[Tom_ad...@adobeforums.com]

Thank you for your help, Ramón, but I think is not the solution.
Finally, I take the same image using Fireworks CS4 and when you open it the file is in the correct color tone... why can't get the same result in Photoshop CS4 when open the file?

[Buko]

CS4 is color managed using the monitor profile the other applications you mention are not. Until you have a correctly calibrated monitor you will never have consistent color.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

but I think is not the solution.

It is. You are wrong. You've been given the solution; what you do with that information is strictly up to you. Your decision won't affect me one way or another.

Good luck.

[Tom_ad...@adobeforums.com]

Thank you, Buko and Ramón.
I follow your advice and calibrate and profile my 30" Apple Cinema monitor to 2.2 gamma and native white point. I take the info here:
<http://www.gballard.net/photoshop/hardware_calibrate_monitor.html>
The color change when I open in Photoshop now and is more near to the original. BUT when I save it the color change to the undesired tone. It's very weird.
I'm not working for printing, it's only a simple JPG image for the web, the original is in Dreamweaver CS4 and when I edit in Photoshop CS4 the original tone goes away. Yes, I can edit in Fireworks and all is OK, but want to know why can't do it in Photoshop keeping the original color tone.
Any idea?
Thank you again.
Tom

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Any idea?

Yes, your monitor profile is still not accurate. Perhaps better than it was before, but not accurate.

As I said in #1:

Calibrate and profile your monitor regularly and often. Even the cheapest
hardware calibrator puck will give you better results than Apple's built-in
eyeball calibrator.

Are you embedding the working profile profile in the JPEGs? Is your working profile the same as the profile you have designated in the ACR workflow options?

How about showing us screen shots of all your Color Settings and your ACR dialog box so we can see the workflow options there?

You can use the free <http://www.pixentral.com> to upload and host images for posting here. Just read and follow the directions.

After the image you upload is displayed back to you, scroll down and copy ALL the text the the box labeled "HTML" for pasting in a reply here. Ignore the code in the box labeled "Forum".

This will give you a nice clickable thumbnail embedded in your post that leads to the original image on Pixentral.

[Lundb...@adobeforums.com]

Don't use tools if you you don't know which end to pound with.

[g_ba...@adobeforums.com]

Fireworks is not color managed
(on a Mac) it applies your monitor profile

Photoshop Save for Web (by default) Converts to sRGB and strips your profile

Please see more here to troubleshoot color issues
<http://www.gballard.net/photoshop/mac_color.html>

[g_ba...@adobeforums.com]

in other words, the color difference you are seeing is occurring when Photoshop Save For Web strips the profile (and applies Monitor RGB by Save For Web default)

and in unmanaged Mac applications when ColorSync applies Monitor RGB to the file (tagged with an embedded ICC profile or not)

if you want to get a true handle on how Photoshop deals with color, I would suggest slugging through this (and not move on until you get it)

<http://www.gballard.net/psd/assignconvert.html>

[Tom_ad...@adobeforums.com]

And the winner is.... g ballard!!!!!! :))))))) THANK YOU, g Ballard!!!!

After doing your advice: "Photoshop Save for Web (by default) Converts to sRGB and strips your profile" That fix the problem!!!!!
Please, see the difference of color tone after editing without saving like you say:

<http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1Q1Z3CqUPXXYh39B5d3MPTRSPjvQAC>

In this example are two sections of a webpage with two images in two DIVs Tags and editing the left image in photoshop and save it then you see a light blue instead of the original blue at the right.
Nothing fix that except your advice, g Ballard.
Thank you Ramón, don't need to calibrate the monitor as I said.
Lundberg, If I open a file in Photoshop the main reason is to use the tools :)

[g_ba...@adobeforums.com]

thanks, now I would be happy if you could tell us WHY and HOW it "fixed" the issue...

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

don't need to calibrate the monitor as I said.

Sigh…

[Tom_ad...@adobeforums.com]

G Ballard,
I can't say to you WHY is fixed this issue because I don't know what's the problem and this is the reason to ask in the forum. I work for years in Photoshop and in different versions and never got this weird problem. My intention is to edit a simple PNG image for the web. And this is the details of HOW is fixed:
1) I work in Dreamweaver CS4 and need to edit a PNG image in Photoshop.
2) When I save it there after editing then I notice an undesired changing color tone as you can see here (this is in Firefox browser, the last version):
<http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1Q1Z3CqUPXXYh39B5d3MPTRSPjvQAC>
3) I try to fix it changing the color setting to a different to see a some results but don't get it.
4) After a lot of tests, I decide to use Fireworks and then the problem is fixed... the color tone in Fireworks is preserve and in Photoshop is lost. I see in Dreamweaver and in Safari and Firefox the different color tone when use Photoshop to edit the image.
5) I try Ramón's advice and the color tone is better but still changing and don't want to change to Fireworks instead of Photoshop.
6) Try your advice using Photoshop and Save for the Web by default and the COLOR TONE IS PRESERVE IN PHOTOSHOP LIKE FIREWORKS!!!!!!
Don't understand WHY, but it works :)

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Tom,

You didn't learn a thing.

You think "it works", but it's working only in your particular computer with that particular monitor. It's like burying your heard in the sand.

You obviously have NOT enabled color management in Firefox. It's disabled by default. You need to go into the guts of the program and enable it.

But I'm just waiting my time here, manifestly. :/

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Check here if you're interested in enabling color management in Firefox:

Ann Shelbourne, "Different Colors by "Saving for Web" - why???" #15, 5 Mar 2009 10:31 am </webx?14@@.59b8224e/14>

[Tom_ad...@adobeforums.com]

Ramón... seems to be this issue is not a monitor calibration problem but if I'm wrong, please, excuse me :)

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

You also missed the Pixentral instructions in #6:

You can use the free <http://www.pixentral.com> to upload and host images
for posting here. Just read and follow the directions.

After the image you upload is displayed back to you, scroll down and copy
ALL the text the the box labeled "HTML" for pasting in a reply here. Ignore
the code in the box labeled "Forum".

This will give you a nice clickable thumbnail embedded in your post that
leads to the original image on Pixentral.

<http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1Q1Z3CqUPXXYh39B5d3MPTRSPjvQAC>

[Tom_ad...@adobeforums.com]

Ramón, I don't understand why is this problem but I can tell you that is fixed using Save for the Web by default in Photoshop and test this in Dreamweaver, Safari and Firefox and don't need to enable Color Managment in Firefox after this procedure.
And yes, I'm sorry, I missed the Pixentral instructions in #6.
Thank you, guys. This forum is excelent. :)

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

If you use g Ballard's advice the color tone is FIXED in Firefox also!!!

But ONLY because you have NOT enabled color management in Firefox! One exclamation point suffices. Your triple exclamation points don't help your cause one bit.

[Tom_ad...@adobeforums.com]

Ramón, don't need to enable color managment in Firefox because the g Ballard's advice fix the problem inside the image and all the images have the same color tone now. If is a difference in other monitor or computer that will be in an uniformed way (all have now the same color tone) and not a different color tone in the edited image like my problem shows. That's the point.
If you waste your time in this forum then do not post, you are not obliged. (without exclamation marks).
Remmember that Firefox is not the only browser to keep in mind at the hour of web development and most people use it as default.

[g_ba...@adobeforums.com]

> Don't understand WHY, but it works

Mac OS applies/assigns/assumes/defaults unmanaged/untagged sRGB color to the Default monitor profile

this includes page color in Web pages

when you embed a profile, a color managed app reads the embedded profile in the graphic and converts it to the monitor profile

because the page color is unmanaged, the Mac OS (ColorSync) applies/assigns/assumes/defaults to the monitor profile

+++++++

in other words, on a Mac, the page color is assumed to be Monitor RGB, and the embedded profile in the graphic is read and corrected to Monitor RGB — thus the mismatch

+++++++

if you want to have the Mac match PAGE COLOR with GRAPHIC COLOR you need to use untagged graphics

the reason this works on a Mac — in both managed and unmanaged browsers and applications — is because ColorSync assumes both page color and graphics are Monitor RGB

+++++++

if you need to blend graphics/photos into page color, and have it display consistently in Mac color-managed browsers, don't embed profiles

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Yeah, then you have to resort to discarding or returning your wide-gamut monitors because you can't stand your untagged images. :D

[Tom_ad...@adobeforums.com]

Thank you, G. Ballard, you have a solid knowledge.
Sorry my ignorance but what is a tagged and untagged image? Don't find a decent answer in the search engines.

And finally... in my opinion, Adobe have like Apple those things that I named: SILLY POLICY FOR USERS... for years and in the name of "modern advanced technologies", Apple and Adobe changes and remove USEFUL features in old versions and replace it (OR NOT) with another different that is new but is not useful or in some cases useless. This is annoying and you lost excellent features. Before I post examples, the solution is to make the changes optional but not remove it.
Ok, I understand that very old features must be remove it, but let me explain:
This is a list of remove it features of Adobe from Dreamweaver CS3 thru CS4:

Deprecated features (Adobe named in this way)
The following features have been deprecated for Dreamweaver CS4:
• Timelines
• Web services
• Layout mode
• Site Map view
• Java Bean support
• Adobe® Flash elements (Image Viewer)
• Adobe® Flash text and Adobe® Flash buttons
• ASP.NET and JSP server behaviors and recordsets

In my opinion is SILLY to remove Layout mode... that works with tables. Ok, they want to move the users to use DIVS instead of Tables... but Fireworks create navigation bars using LAYOUT MODE and Fireworks can't gives an output after slicing in DIVs like Photoshop do it. (using save for the web workflow). Removing Site Map view is silly also and don't see a replace feature. This is the case of "more "professional" more silly". Removing Adobe® Flash text and Adobe® Flash buttons on CS4 is very annoying and is not a good decision.

Apple: The most annoying, for me, of the "Apple Cats"'s Operating System is Leopard... Apple remove the classical use of dock in Tiger and add the horrible and silly STACKS that nobody like it... Apple never fix the refresh bug... after saving a file you need to navigate and renavigate to force the finder to show where is the new created file. Sometimes works the refresh and sometimes don't.
Probably in the next release, Snow Leopard, Apple will remove Rosetta and Carbon and there's A LOT of useful applications that will be lost for ever because the developers are tired of the unpredictable changes at the last time from Apple and don't upgrade to the next Cat generation.
My question now is: This Profile's problem (that begins this discussion) in Adobe Photoshop CS4, WHY doesn't appears in CS3 or CS2? Do you think is for this silly policies?

Sorry my large post.
Thank you.
Tom