CS4 graphics card

[Don_...@adobeforums.com]

Just installed CS4 on my 2005 Power Mac G5 and evidently my graphics card does not support open gl. Any suggestions for a new graphics card?

[Neil_...@adobeforums.com]

Don,

Don't know how much luck you'll have. Suitable cards for G5 towers are scarce as proverbial hen's teeth.

Neil

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

Don:

This thread may help you:
<http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b69dcd/>

[Jim_G...@adobeforums.com]

FYI, I installed CS4 on my Quad G5 with a 7800GT card and it will enable OpenGL Drawing and in Advance Settings it will allow Vertical Sync and Force Bilinear Interpolation but nothing else.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

I believe that you need a more powerful Card than the 7800 for the Quads.

See the thread that I linked to in Message #2

[Allen...@adobeforums.com]

IMO wait a couple of weeks to see CS4 performance results on various boxes with various cards. It may or may not make more sense to save to invest in a MacIntel rather than pouring money into a legacy G5. Comparative performance information (IMO, Ann disagrees) will allow a more rational invest-in-G5 vs. invest-in-MacIntel decision.

[Jerry_...@adobeforums.com]

Here is the official list of supported and tested graphics cards:

<http://www.adobe.com/go/kb405711>

[Allen...@adobeforums.com]

official list of supported and tested graphics cards

My expectation is that it is not simply about supported. Similar to Adobe's ridiculous posted RAM requirements I am guessing we will need real tests to see which setups are best performance value.

[Buko]

I've got a 6600LE and everything works fine with the option plugin.

the plugin may make everything work fine with the 7800GT which I have ordered and Is on its way again.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

All Open GL features work on a G5 2GHz Dual fitted with a 7800GT.

[Jerry_...@adobeforums.com]

Open GL Features and Photoshop CS4:

<http://www.adobe.com/go/kb404898>

[Neil_...@adobeforums.com]

Also added to the boilerplate text in the tinted panel of the main Photoshop/Mac directory page. Thanks!

It's probably gonna be another hot topic.

Neil

[Scott_W...@adobeforums.com]

I wonder why Adobe didn't test with the nVidia 7300 cards. Apple sold those for a solid year before moving to the 8800.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

Scott:

Those cards are mentioned in the link that Jerry provided in #10:

<http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=kb404898>

[Chri...@adobeforums.com]

Adobe tested a lot with the 7300GT cards - and is waiting on Apple to fix a few dozen bugs in the driver code so they can be used.

[Scott_W...@adobeforums.com]

Thanks Anne. I missed those.
Now all I can say is CRAP!
Not overly worried about a couple of the items but the crashing will get to me :)

-------------------------------
Display card: NVIDIA GeForce 7300GT
Issue: When you resize a window using keyboard shortcuts, Photoshop crashes.
Solution: Turn off Enable OpenGL Drawing, and make sure you're using the most recent version of the display driver.

Issue: Photoshop freezes when you zoom in on an image and try to move the image.
Solution: Check for an update display driver, or turn off Enable OpenGL Drawing.
--------------------------------

Looks like I'll need a new card, get used to crashes or simply not benefit from the GPU items.

Thanks Chris!
I'll hold off on the 8800 for a bit and hope for an Apple update soon. Not that money on an 8800 would be wasted. hmmm.....

[Chri...@adobeforums.com]

Scott - I'd go buy the 8800.

[Wade_Zi...@adobeforums.com]

I used the 7300GT hundred and it worked with PS CS4 on the Mac Pro? It could only open 8 Open GL documents at a time but everything worked?

I then immediately upgraded to the 8000GT so I could open more then 12 documents I need to be able to have twelve such documents opened. I can actually now open 15 with my screen set at a resolution of 1920x1200.

But as far as I know the 7300 works.

[g_ba...@adobeforums.com]

> 7300GT cards - and is waiting on Apple to fix a few dozen bugs in the
driver code so they can be used.

great, my backup mac pro has those cards, not too sure I want to wait for Apple to fix those bugs

[Scott_W...@adobeforums.com]

Thanks Chris.

Since I'm running 2 monitors off of one card a 30" and a 20" (and a 20" off a second card) getting an 8800 would probably be best, at least for the primary card.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Just curious: Is anyone running CS4 with a MUTANT (flashed) nVidia GeForce 7800 GS 425MHz 256 MB graphics display card (w/support for Shader Model 3.0 and OpenGL 2.0)?

It is listed as a supported card on Windows PCs, but, for understandable reasons, not mentioned on the Mac list.

Maybe I'll just have to way for the trial version of CS4 to find out…

[Buko]

I have a 7800GT I got from AppleMacanix.com in my G5 I have no idea if its flashed but it seems to work fine. I'm using it with the optional plugin as it seems to unlock the Advanced Drawing. I have not had any problems.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

A Flashed-for-Mac 7800GT is what I have too — also from AppleMacanix — and it is fine.

I haven't yet tried using the optional plug-in (I assume you are talking about the "AllowOldGPUS.plugin"?) but Buko has apparently had no problems with it so perhaps I should install it?

[Buko]

Yeah give it a try Ann things seem to be fine here. My G5 is the last gen. so I have a PCIe slot.

[Wade_Zi...@adobeforums.com]

I made a mistake in typing< I know you are all surprised since I type so well.

I upgraded to the Geforce nvidia 8800GT and that seems to work well.

It does cost about $350.00.

[Buko]

I made a mistake in typing< I know you are all surprised since I type
so well.

I'm shocked!! I'll never trust your typing from now on. Its all over Wade.

[Scott_W...@adobeforums.com]

It does cost about $350.00

You paid way too much :)

[Wade_Zi...@adobeforums.com]

Excuse me I paid $279 plus tax. Same price as at the Apple store I do not have that good a memory. Tekserve does no give breaks but charges the same as if you were at the Apple Store. So that is the price.

[Scott_W...@adobeforums.com]

Well that was probably it, Wade. No tax here in Oregon.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

Actually there ARE other suppliers.

It was Ramón who put me on to the fact that there are companies that are making mutant Flashed-for-Mac cards from Nvidea Windows cards — and that these will work perfectly well.

Both Buko and I got ours from AppleMacanix and they are fine.

It is essential that the card that you buy isformatted for a Mac and is the correct kind for your computer's Bus.

I did install the "AllowOldGPUS.plugin".
No problems so far (despite the dire warning in the Tech Doc.!) and I now have full use of OpenGL Drawing.

[Wade_Zi...@adobeforums.com]

God Bless You!

[Scott_W...@adobeforums.com]

Well I installed this morning, still running 2 nVidia 7300 cards. (New card arrives tomorrow). Even with the minimum requirements for GPU it was active by default and Photoshop CS4 seems a whole lot smoother. Not just due to the enhanced panning/zooming, but in general brushes seem smoother.

I haven't hit any of the crash problems, even after attempting to. So even without a card upgrade it looks like I'd be happy. I'm sure the new card will simply improve things further.

[Buko]

I bet card manufactures and sellers love Adobe with this release.

[Allen...@adobeforums.com]

I bet card manufactures and sellers love Adobe with this release.

What they will really love is Snow Leopard. Hopefully we will see wider selections of cards available to Mac users.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

Want to bet that Snow Leopard won't lead to any wider choice of cards for older non-Intel Macs — particularly AGP Bus models?

Meanwhile we have AppleMacanix … .

[Ci...@adobeforums.com]

I did install the "AllowOldGPUS.plugin".

So did I. It wasn't pretty.

[Buko]

works well with the G5

[Allen...@adobeforums.com]

Want to bet that Snow Leopard won't lead to any wider choice of cards
for older non-Intel Macs — particularly AGP Bus models?

Of course not. Very little development - almost zero - is aimed at legacy systems.

[Buko]

If I were to run my panel monitor on my old video card(6600LE) and I run the main monitor on the 7800GT will I get better performance on the main monitor?

As opposed to running both Monitors on the 7800GT.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

I don't know — but try it and see?

[Buko]

I'm lazy right now.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

Or too busy playing with CS4?
:)

[Buko]

That too but I just got done taking it out. And have everything back together.

I suppose I should put it back in.

sigh

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Buko,

If I were to run my panel monitor on my old video card(6600LE) and I run
the main monitor on the 7800GT will I get better performance on the main
monitor?

Well, in that case all the VRAM on the card would be available to the main monitor, without having to share it with the secondary monitor. Whether that makes a difference in practice or not is a different story.

[Buko]

Well that's what I was thinking. but if it won't really make a difference I don't want to go to the trouble of pulling everything out again.

[Allen...@adobeforums.com]

And it depends on the app. Some apps' two-display operations only work properly when run from a single card.

[Buko]

the only app in question would be Photoshop

[Buko]

I just spoke to one of the tech guys where I buy my Macs. He said it won't make a difference so until I get that 3rd monitor the extra card stays in storage.

[Allen...@adobeforums.com]

As long as we are on the topic... I have a 2006 MP with a stock 7300 card as well an (uninstalled until I move beyond 10.4.11) HD 2600 XT card. If I choose to use both cards for 3 displays does it matter which slots the cards actually live in? I.e. can I leave the 7300 where it is? The 7300 card does not want to release and I don't want to break it.

[Scott_W...@adobeforums.com]

Buko... I'm running 3 monitors off of 2 cards. I'm moving some video cards around this afternoon. I'll let you know what I discover. Although I'm on a MacPro it may give a bit of insight.

[Neil_...@adobeforums.com]

Allen,

Check and see if the 7300 card has a small notch in its board, near the bottom, with a tab locking it in place.

Neil

[Buko]

Scott I'd be interested to hear. I just don't want to keep pulling the G5 apart if I don't have to. Nopt that it hard to pull the side off Its where I have it.

[Buko]

Yes I would put the bigger card in the slot with the locking tab.

[PSh...@adobeforums.com]

Allen -

Yes, there's a small tab that you must pull out (gently, of course), to release the card. You can't really see it - so you have to go by feel.

By default, the first slot will provide the best performance - it's a x16 lane slot - and the one next to it will be x8. Run the better card in the first slot. You can configure these differently if you want using the Expansion Slot Utility but there's not much point. The ESU is located:

Boot drive / System / Library / CoreServices / Expansion Slot Utility

-phil

[Allen...@adobeforums.com]

Thanks! I found the tab before but it sticks. When I upgrade above 10.4.11 I will use more force.

Am I correct that the move is to pull/lift the tab?

[Scott_W...@adobeforums.com]

Help.

What am I doing wrong.

Quad2.66 MacPro

I have been running 3 monitors off of 2 nVidia 7300 video cards. When I initially installed Photoshop CS4, the Enable GL Drawing was checked by default for these cards.

I just installed an nVidia 8800Gt video card. So I've got 1-7300GT and 1-8800GT driving three monitors. System Info shows both cards correctly and all monitors work properly. However, now Enable GL drawing is not available.

So, somehow with a better video card I can't get GL drawing. Anyone have a clue as to why?

Have reset PSCS4 prefs, and PRAM on the machine. No change.

[Scott_W...@adobeforums.com]

Okay installing the AllowOldGPUs plugin makes GL drawing available. But.. should I need the plug in with the 8800 card when I didn't need it at all for the 7300?

Basically.. I'm now wondering why I spent the money on a better card when Photoshop is somewhat acting like it's a worse card, at least in terms of preferences.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Maybe there's a newer driver for the card?

[Scott_W...@adobeforums.com]

Tried software update.. tried nVidia... nothing.

Reinstalled the OS10.5.5 combo update, no change.

It is working with the AllowOldGPU plug in.... but I really shouldn't need that plug in. At least that's what I thought. I mean the 7300 cards didn't need it.

called Adobe Tech Support.. they suggested installing the plug in. That's about all they had to offer.

[Buko]

Scott this is something I noticed with the 7800GT. Without the plugin advanced drawing is not available. with the 6600LE the plugin made the basic open GL available. I think Adobe saw all these problems so they made the plugin + disclaimer.

so how do the two cards work compared to just one?

[Scott_W...@adobeforums.com]

Well I've had two cards, three monitors, for over a year with no problems.

I attempted to hook my 30" to the 8800 then the two 20"s to the 7300... only 2 monitors were seen. So I moved one 20" back to the 8800 with the 30". All works fine.

I don't know why I couldn't run 1 monitor off the 8800 and 2 off the 7300. Maybe something to do with main slot and second slot. Or possibly card power distribution which I didn't play with.

So now I'm running 30" and 20" on the 8800 with AllowOldGPU plug in, and a 20" on the 7300. No issues. Photoshop is absolutely snappier than it was with two 7300 cards. I see a marked improvement in all window drawing on my main monitor as well, not just in Photoshop.

[g_ba...@adobeforums.com]

Did you check Pshock's earlier post?

"the first slot will provide the best performance - it's a x16 lane slot - and the one next to it will be x8. Run the better card in the first slot. You can configure these differently if you want using the Expansion Slot Utility but there's not much point. The ESU is located:

Boot drive / System / Library / CoreServices / Expansion Slot Utility"

I recall setting mine to x16 (maybe on my 4-cor mac Pro under 10.4) but now 10.5x tells me Expansion Slot Utility won't run on my 8-core Mac Pro (so I don't know what's going on) and I've got Windoze Vista running on my Tiger box right now to check it...

[Don_...@adobeforums.com]

Does anyone have any excessive fan noise after installing the 7800 gt for a Mac G5(flashed) ?

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

The 7800GT has its own built-in fan so you have an extra one that is running all the time and it will obviously not be as quiet as the G5 was before you installed the new card.

But as the 7800 makes the OpenGL features of CS4 available to us, I reckon that I can put up with a little extra noise!

[Don_...@adobeforums.com]

Ann, Thanks for the reply. I ordered the 7800 on e-bay and should receive it soon. I am anxious to try it in my G5, any tips on installing it?

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

If you go to the Applemacanix website you can download very clear installation instructions. Print them out before starting the job.

You will find that the card comes with a 3-point connection cable and one end of this must connect to the internal power supply.

On the G5, that port is on the rear end of the optical drive and you have to disconnect the optical (CD/DVD) drive and slide it forwards to make the connection; and then re-install the CD drive.

It is actually very easy to do and just sounds more difficult than it actually is.

To get the full use of OpenGL in CS4, you should also install the optional CS4 plug-in that allows the use of older GPUs.

[Buko]

What ann said

[Danny_...@adobeforums.com]

Sorry if I'm dumb, but could you provide a link to the installation instructions? I can't find it on the Applemacnix site.

Here's what I bought: <http://cgi.ebay.com/Mac-nVidia-GeForce-7800-GS-256MB-AGP-Video-Card-G4-G5_W0QQitemZ270290513235QQihZ017QQcategoryZ25449QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem>

Mac 10.4.11
Dual 2.3 GHz Power PC G5
3.5 GB DDR SDRAM

[Buko]

I just plugged my card into the slot my 6600 was in. I have a G5 I did not look for any install instructions as it was plug an' play.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

Buko:

But surely you did plug in the three-ended cable into your Power Supply because the auxiliary fan on the card requires that, and you do need to run the fan to keep the operating temperature below 120°F.

Or does the 6600 (with which I am unfamiliar) also have an integrated fan so that a triple-ended connector was already installed in your G5?

[Buko]

Everything seems to be working including the fan as I had extra fan noise. I'll check but I had nowhere to plug the fan cable into the G5.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

Danny:

If you look on the instruction-sheet that you received from Applemacanix you will see the Link to get the special instructions for installing a 7800GT in an AGP G5.

<http://www.applemacanix.com/g5molex.pdf>

[Buko]

Ann what is the temp of you graphics card?

[PSh...@adobeforums.com]

Only more powerful GPUs require the additional power. The 6600 was the base Mac card from several years ago and doesn't need the extra juice.

Question, Ann. Apple's technote says 512 MB of RAM is needed for the advanced GPU features. Yours has only 256. Can you enable the advanced stuff? Just curious.

On a un/related note, I've installed CS4 on my 2.66 Mac Pro and the ATI 3870 ($217) I installed a few months ago appears to work perfectly. All the advanced features are enabled and everything is very smooth.

Everyone suggests the Nvidia 8800 is the way to go for Mac Pros but I still say the ATI 3870 is the best bang for the buck. (and performs better with Apple's pro apps)

-phil

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

Buko:

Your G5 is not an AGP 8x bus one is it and so it may be different?

The power-supply outlet on the AGP G5s is on the rear end of the DVD drive. You have to disconnect that plug and replace it with one end of the triple-ended cable.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

Question, Ann. Apple's technote says 512 MB of RAM is needed for the advanced
GPU features. Yours has only 256. Can you enable the advanced stuff? Just
curious.

ALL advanced GPU features are working for me Phil — even with a 256 card.
Actually, the Adobe TechDocs that I have seen stated that 256 MB cards were usable.

You are very limited in the choice of suitable cards if you have an AGP x8 Bus G5.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

Sorry, I missed #72:

My Graphics processor Chip is currently reading 111.2°F.

Ramón advised me that the temperature should be kept below 120°.

[PSh...@adobeforums.com]

Ann-

That's good to hear. Are you using that non supported "enabling" plug in?

FYI - It was this that I read:

"We require 512 MB RAM for Advanced Drawing to be enabled."

<http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=kb404898#known>

-phil

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

Phil:

I have installed the "AllowOldGPUS.plugin".

I needed that to make "Advanced: OpenGL Drawing" available but the basic OpenGL functions will work without the optional plug-in.

Adobe seem to have updated KB404898 a few days ago. It now suggests that 128MB cards are sufficient — which I question?:

For Photoshop to access the GPU, your display card must contain a GPU
that supports OpenGL and has enough RAM to support Photoshop functions--
at least 128 MB of RAM--and a display driver that supports OpenGL 2.0
and Shader Model 3.0.

[Scott_W...@adobeforums.com]

They need to add the issue with non-matching display cards as well.

[Stev...@adobeforums.com]

gebers, my graphic processor runs at about 62C, that's 143F: G5 quad with a GeForce 6600.

[Buko]

OK I just took the side off the G5.

The 7800 fan is running just fine without being connected. I also just googled temps and gamers are running at 62+c / 143.6+f I'm running about 122f at idle.

[Don_...@adobeforums.com]

Just installed the 7800 GT on my G5. Everything works fine including open gl features. Thanks to all of you for your help and information

[Don_...@adobeforums.com]

The fan on my 7800 GT seems pretty noisy. Has anyone tried installing any of the silencer/cooling fans such as the Artic silencer?

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

The problem with PCI cooling fans is that they take too much space. You have to sacrifice from at least two to three PCI slots.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

I just keep my G5 with the 7800 GT (and its fan!) under my desk where the extra fan-noise is somewhat muted.

[Buko]

the Arctic Silencer looks pretty slim and it keeps the card about 10 to 15 degrees cooler, but my fan is not very noisy so I probably won't get one.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

I tried that one, but it did take up the space of two PCI slots. :(

[G...@adobeforums.com]

I have an old G5 with a Radeon 9650, and thought I would have to buy a new video card since Enable OpenGL Drawing was grayed out.

However, I ran across this optional AllowOldGPUS.plugin:

<http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/thankyou.jsp?ftpID=4051&fileID=3770>

Once installed in the Plug-Ins folder, all the GPU-accelerated functions became available.

It's definitely worth a shot to try the plug-in to see if your current video card works.

[Scott_W...@adobeforums.com]

Be aware G5b, you should read the disclaimers for the AllowOldGPUS plug in. It can itself be the cause of system instability.

[G...@adobeforums.com]

Thanks Scott, I didn't realize that. However, I'm happy to report that it's been running almost a whole week without incident.

[Buko]

I think that the plugin works better with PPC machines.

[Don_...@adobeforums.com]

Ok...here's my CS4 + video card on a 1st generation Mac Pro running Leopard 10.5.5 story.
I had two 7300GT cards installed and I could turn on "Enable OpenGl Drawing", but only "Vertical Sync" could be enabled under Advanced Settings.
I then installed an 8800GT card in the first slot and left the 2nd slot with the 7300GT card for a total of two cards and 4 monitors.
When I restarted Photoshop with the new 8800 card installed, GPU Settings no longer detected Video Card and Enable OpenGl Drawing was dimmed out.
So then I installed AllowOldGPUS.plugin, and everything worked including ALL the features in Advanced Settings.
What's up with this....? It's my understanding that the plugin is for older cards not newer ones, and that the 8800 should work without having to use the plugin.
So strange, considering it worked with my 7300 cards, which are lesser cards.
Also....anyone have any idea of what all those setting are for in "Advanced Settings"...what they do and if you need to turn them on or not?

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

Let us know how stable CS4 proves to be with the two dissimilar cards being used in conjunction with the AllowOldGPUS.plugin.

[Scott_W...@adobeforums.com]

Don,

Exact same experience... read below.

<http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b6e56d/43>

I resolved to upgrading to 2-8800s rather than deal with the problems. It seems the Apple OS doesn't not like two different video cards. Things work better when they are identical. I'm still waiting from my second 8800 to arrive. But I'm anticipating much better behavior with 2 identical cards again.

[Don_...@adobeforums.com]

So far I haven't had any problems with it set up that way I have it at the moment.
I really don't want to spend another $300. for another 8800 card just to get this to work.
Especially when you wouldn't be able to get the full speed out of the 2nd slot anyways...quite throttled down...so why put a $300. card in there.
I'll let you know if I start to have any issues with this set up....otherwise you can assume it's working for me.
Anyone have any info on all those Advanced Settings and what they do and if we need them to do it?

[Scott_W...@adobeforums.com]

I absolutely agree, Don.

On the other hand.. even the second throttled down card on my system gave a noticeable improvement in video performance.

[Don_...@adobeforums.com]

Ann....
I really don't like the idea of spending another $300. for another 8800 card. Especially when the other video slots are so throttled down, its a waste of what the card is capable of.
That would be $600. for cards and another $200. for the CS4 upgrade, bringing the total to $800.00!!
I think I'll just wait until Apple gets this figured out, and hope they do and soon.
One should be able to upgrade a video card without being forced to buy two of them in order to get them to work without conflict. Somethings not right with that.

[Don_...@adobeforums.com]

Here's an update with my situation:

I finally had to remove the 8800 card and reinstall the 7600. It was not causing me problems in CS4, but was causing computer issues with waking up from sleep and major start up issues.
So I'm now back to two 7600 cards and will just have to wait for Apple to deal with the problem of having two different cards installed at the same time.
CS4 does work with the two 7600 cards...it's just a little sluggish for all the cool effects...zooming, tossing etc.

[Ann_She...@adobeforums.com]

Did you try setting the computer to "Sleep=Never"?

Let the monitor sleep but not the computer.