Account Options

  1. Sign in
The old Google Groups will be going away soon.
Switch to the new Google Groups.
Google Groups Home
« Groups Home
ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system
There are currently too many topics in this group that display first. To make this topic appear first, remove this option from another topic.
There was an error processing your request. Please try again.
flag
  Messages 1 - 25 of 39 - Collapse all  -  Translate all to Translated (View all originals)   Newer >
The group you are posting to is a Usenet group. Messages posted to this group will make your email address visible to anyone on the Internet.
Your reply message has not been sent.
Your post will appear after it is approved by moderators
 
From:
To:
Cc:
Followup To:
Add Cc | Add Followup-to | Edit Subject
Subject:
Validation:
For verification purposes please type the characters you see in the picture below or the numbers you hear by clicking the accessibility icon. Listen and type the numbers you hear
 
amir hosein khanof  
View profile  
 More options Dec 18 2011, 5:30 am
From: amir hosein khanof <amir.kha...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2011 14:30:22 +0400
Local: Sun, Dec 18 2011 5:30 am
Subject: ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system

Hi,

If we supposed that any systems with more than 400 concurrent users and
more than 80 pages + 80(TF) is an Enterprise system then:
I want to get your suggestions for the installation, configuration and
deployment of this enterprise system in WLS.
Have do you deployed such an Enterprise scale system with ADF(ADF Faces +
ADF BC)?
How Many concurrent user do you have?
How many cluster you have and how much RAM you specified for each cluster?
What is you infrastructure (JVM + WLS version + ADF version + OS version +
RAM )?

Last, why I am asking such questions? because I have deployed several
enterprise systems with ADF and I see lack of performance in run-time ( I
have this problem in SOA/BPM Suite11g also) I am trying to get help from a
brainstorming here.

What is the reality? is ADF suitable for such an enterprise level or it is
very heavy-weight for Enterprise systems?

we have done several migration from Form Builder to ADF the good-> people
are satisfied with functionality, design of page and capability in page
component the bad-> in the past they only has database to configure, now
they have very huge RAM consumption from WLS.

one of company that I knew has 15 clusters (each cluster has around 4 GIG
RAM)! to support 10000 concurrent users, is this normal?is it because ADF
needs lots of resources compare to other frameworks? or it is because they
do not know how to configure the system? but I am sure that they know the
basic ADF performance hints (APP Pool, Connection Pool,debug=false,....).
I hope at the end of this brainstorming I found my answer to what is the
best configuration for Cluster+WLS+ ADF..

To my experience, for each 150 user we need 3 gig for an Enterprise system
in ADF Faces, if it is true, suppose how much RAM needed if the
Facebook/Gmail/Oracle Website... was supposed to be written with ADF ;) ...

Thanks
Amir


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Simon Lessard  
View profile  
 More options Dec 18 2011, 6:49 am
From: Simon Lessard <simon.lessar...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2011 12:49:57 +0100
Local: Sun, Dec 18 2011 6:49 am
Subject: Re: [ADF EMG] ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system

Hi Amir,

If you already code applications using only 3Gb for 150 concurrent users,
which is 20Mb per user, then you're already doing pretty good and I don't
think I can come up with many potential optimizations. You could use full
client state saving (not token), but there are some potential security
risks associated with that and it's going to increase the network load.
Dropping the ADF Databinding layer and using POJOs as return values from
your application module methods can also yield some interesting RAM gains.
Other than that there isn't much really as JSF is a bit memory hungry by
design because of the said state saving.

I don't think Facebook could have been coded in ADF, it just not the right
framework model for that kind of application, it's really more intranet
oriented imho. I did work on some general public applications that ended up
pretty well, we still had to twist the framework around every corners to
resolve that kind of issues.

Regards,

~ Simon

On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 11:30 AM, amir hosein khanof
<amir.kha...@gmail.com>wrote:

--
Simon Lessard, ADF Architect
*CMA** **CGM SYSTeMS
**4, quai d’Arenc, 13235 Marseille cedex 02, France*
*( +33 6 79 37 39 85 (France)*
*(** **+**1.418.930.0279 (Canada)*

 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
amir hosein khanof  
View profile  
 More options Dec 18 2011, 9:02 am
From: amir hosein khanof <amir.kha...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2011 17:32:30 +0330
Local: Sun, Dec 18 2011 9:02 am
Subject: Re: [ADF EMG] ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system

Hi Sempon,

Thanks for your sympathy, I completely came up with your idea regarding ADF
but my problem is that when we say ADF is for Enterprise level
applications it is antithesis, during the past 3 years of improving of ADF
from Oracle, what I see is that in every version we see new feature and
lack of improvement in performance issue. blieve me that even the AM
Pooling in high load is not as good as must be.
in OOW I heard that Oracle is going to use ADF for all the
future applications that is going to be develope in Oracle, I wonder how it
could be with this performance!!!

Even the built-in application that Oracle himself has wrote that is not
good in performance i.e take a look over Oracle Workspace or Oracle
Worklist!!! when you try to login in, you feel that you are loading
1,000,000 records from db!!!

what is the future? in case of Oracle Technologies which technology we must
really use for Enterprise Level?

When Oracle talks about Cloud how it could be possible with lack of
performance?

I really advocate ADF but the future is vague for me...

Thanks,

On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 3:19 PM, Simon Lessard <simon.lessar...@gmail.com>wrote:

--
Amir Khanof
Senior Oracle MiddleWare Developer

09122124673


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Anton Gerdessen  
View profile  
 More options Dec 18 2011, 3:26 pm
From: Anton Gerdessen <a.gerdes...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2011 12:26:07 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sun, Dec 18 2011 3:26 pm
Subject: Re: ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system
Well, to be honest.
If you want that many concurrent users, don't go for ADF
ADF is centered on easy of development and reducing the required
knowledge to build enterprise applications.
Performance will never be as good as other JEE framework.

ADF can execute several more queries than required for a lot of
operations.
I have had several SR request with Oracle concerning duplicate or even
triple query firing of queries.
ADF has sacrificed a lot in order to fully support drag and drop and
generic components.

Just create a simple application and start using it. See the memory
usage and CPU goes insane for a single user.
In my opinion Weblogic is the best JEE application server, but it is a
heavy weight server supporting a lot of features.
Features of which ADF uses almost nothing, features intended for JEE
frameworks.

The concurrent users you descibe I have had to deal with in only 1
project.
ADF was never an option there, we quickly moved to EJB 3.0 with a thin
Java layer and WFD (Microsoft) gui in order to support the load.
JEE can scale horizontal and vertical. ADF will not, simple due to the
application module being so heavy and the concept of a statefull
session facade.

If you check other JEE frameworks you see they quickly moved away from
state full session facades, EJB state full beans etc. ADF has not.
This type of programming paradigm just doesn't allow for scalability
under high concurrent.
users. Yet ADF keeps its application module, which is even heavier
then any other state full session facade out there.

ADF works, but the use in my opinion is limited.
ADF works in back end data entry application working mainly directly
on database tables.
It reduces the complexity of JEE application but imposes certain
drawbacks, one of them being performance and scalability.
And yes, I use ADF, but for exactly the type of application I
mentioned above, Back end application working 85% directly on tables,
10% with PL/SQL procedures and 5% with rest/soap services.

-Anton

On Dec 18, 3:02 pm, amir hosein khanof <amir.kha...@gmail.com> wrote:


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Rajeev Shah  
View profile  
 More options Dec 19 2011, 12:09 am
From: Rajeev Shah <rajeev.s...@agile-ft.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 10:39:59 +0530
Local: Mon, Dec 19 2011 12:09 am
Subject: Re: [ADF EMG] Re: ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system

What I understand with ADF is, an application that uses all ADF layers, is
not to be recommended for more than 500 concurrent users.
Reason: Business will always expect itself to grow in future and ADF is
inherently a heavy n/w framework.

But it will be interesting to see a ADF BC and Struts integrated
application, if it can support 500+ concurrent users. Gut feeling is yes,
b'coz ADF faces (UI part) is what makes it real heavy.

On 19 December 2011 01:56, Anton Gerdessen <a.gerdes...@gmail.com> wrote:

--

Thanks & Regards,
Rajeev


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Amr Gawish  
View profile  
 More options Dec 19 2011, 12:40 am
From: Amr Gawish <amr.gaw...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:40:05 +0300
Local: Mon, Dec 19 2011 12:40 am
Subject: Re: [ADF EMG] Re: ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system

Hi Amir,
One thing I'm sure with, is that ADF can be designed for Enterprise and Big
Applications, you only need to do one thing to rapidly enhance performance,
that one thing is *Don't use Data Binding Layer aka Drag and Drop *as you
get rid of it, you end up not having a big Page Definition file, sometime
no page definition at all, you decreasing the loading of reading and
parsing XMLs back and forth with the framework, you need to return back to
the backing beans and manage beans, this will boost your performance by 200%
That was testes, and trust me its working well, but you will lose most of
the cool stuff JDeveloper does for you, and ofcourse increase the time so
much, I'd rather also not use so much TF for that matter

Best Regards,
Amr Gawish
Senior Oracle Middleware Consultant
<http://www.amr-gawish.com>  <http://blog.amr-gawish.com>
<http://www.twitter.com/agawish>
  <http://www.linkedin.com/in/agawish>
<https://plus.google.com/113754637895846356137/about>
  <http://www.facebook.com/agawish>

On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 11:26 PM, Anton Gerdessen <a.gerdes...@gmail.com>wrote:


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Jean-Marc Desvaux  
View profile  
 More options Dec 19 2011, 7:39 am
From: Jean-Marc Desvaux <jm.desv...@gcc.mu>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 04:39:31 -0800 (PST)
Local: Mon, Dec 19 2011 7:39 am
Subject: Re: [ADF EMG] Re: ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system

Hi All,

I believe the choice of a framework as a long term strategic tool should
not be avoided because of a performance issue related to an hardware
resource constraint as long as it can be sorted out at an affordable cost.
If I go for a better performing Framework choice (non 100% ADF) how my
constraints (translating to less productivity mainly) are going to persist
or even increase compared to my current hardware constraint which has many
chances to vanish in the future ?

Taking into account that ADF is not meant for Google scale apps but that it
is for 10,000 users Enterprises, is it possible or not today to sort out
the performance issue with more CPUs & RAM ?

If Amir's figures are good, 15 machines of 3G to support 10,000 users is
not bad in term of machine cost per user.
Amr says that a 200% perf boost can be achieved by "avoiding" data binding
layer, TFs etc....
The Maths can be : Non 100% ADF with approx 7 machines or 15 machines with
100% ADF for 10,000 users. 1 machine at 3000$ => 24,000$ for 8 =>
2.40$/user one-off cost to pay for ADF productivity is a good deal.
Am I wrong ? Or is the performance problem more complex than that ?

Jean-Marc


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Jang-Vijay Singh  
View profile  
 More options Dec 19 2011, 7:47 am
From: Jang-Vijay Singh <jvs...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 12:47:08 +0000
Local: Mon, Dec 19 2011 7:47 am
Subject: Re: [ADF EMG] Re: ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system

Hi,

All the concerns raised seem valid. However, before getting to solutions,
let's break down the 'performance' issues by addressing the following
questions:

1) Does ADF as a framework require relatively more RAM and hardware
resources than other frameworks to function at an acceptable level?

OR

2) Do you observe other serious issues such as memory leaks that are
impossible to resolve after adequate tuning and sizing?

I read some unofficial blog post that suggests the whole Fusion
applications suite could need 120 GB of memory.

As Jean's math suggests, if, after that is just the price one pays to use
all the productivity and usability features. Of course, we do recognise
that different frameworks/patterns/technology platform suit different
problems - 'one size doesn't fit all'
Historically, hardware (RAM, processing power, storage) has only become
cheaper and better so it should hardly constrain one from using the
framework 'where appropriate' .

Regards,
JV

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Jean-Marc Desvaux <jm.desv...@gcc.mu>wrote:


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Mashrur  
View profile  
 More options Dec 19 2011, 8:12 am
From: Mashrur <mash...@mislbd.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 05:12:12 -0800 (PST)
Local: Mon, Dec 19 2011 8:12 am
Subject: Re: ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system
Hi Jean,
What about the web logic cost which is most likely to be used with
ADF? As far as I know, Oracle made ADF to sell web logic. And
productivity?
What about some competing frameworks? Or is it productivity with
relatively cheap resources?
I can't understand this equation actually. Oracle made a tool/
framework which will end up selling something expensive [web logic] to
end customer - but that tool is targeted for quick development with
less scalability option - so, who are those end customers who don't
need a scalable app but ready to pay a huge amount for infrastructure
cost [app server, hardware, etc.] ? And why these end customers won't
have better options to choose from? And who are those ISVs who do not
want or can't invest a good amount for skilled developers [who will be
apt at using something productive and scalable] to make something
which will be bought by some rich end clients? I don't see how this
equation is going to work, in the long run..!
Making everything declarative is may be a way to attract some forms
developers, but I don't see why it is not possible to make this
declarations into something compiled in first build..[reducing the
need of xml parsing] just wondering!

Thanks
Mashrur

On Dec 19, 6:39 pm, Jean-Marc Desvaux <jm.desv...@gcc.mu> wrote:


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
John Flack  
View profile  
 More options Dec 19 2011, 8:21 am
From: "John Flack" <Jo...@smdi.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:21:52 -0500
Local: Mon, Dec 19 2011 8:21 am
Subject: RE: [ADF EMG] ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system

Just a few thoughts:

Make sure that your application server is patched to the latest,
including patches to the ADF libraries.  We don't have much experience
with JDev 11g and Weblogic, but the memory use on a 10g application on
OC4J was significantly reduced when we installed a fairly minor patch to
the ADF libraries.

Read up on the performance tuning parameters for your Application
Modules - we got a bit of a bump by fine tuning these.

Simon, while the long-time users of Oracle tools (like Forms) in my shop
(including me) are using ADF BC, we have two developers who knew
Hibernate, so they did the Model for their projects in JPA.  Their
applications simply don't perform as well as mine.  For that reason, and
so that any of our developers can maintain them, the next versions of
these will be switched to ADF BC.

From: adf-methodology@googlegroups.com
[mailto:adf-methodology@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Simon Lessard
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 6:50 AM
To: adf-methodology@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ADF EMG] ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system

Hi Amir,

If you already code applications using only 3Gb for 150 concurrent
users, which is 20Mb per user, then you're already doing pretty good and
I don't think I can come up with many potential optimizations. You could
use full client state saving (not token), but there are some potential
security risks associated with that and it's going to increase the
network load. Dropping the ADF Databinding layer and using POJOs as
return values from your application module methods can also yield some
interesting RAM gains. Other than that there isn't much really as JSF is
a bit memory hungry by design because of the said state saving.

I don't think Facebook could have been coded in ADF, it just not the
right framework model for that kind of application, it's really more
intranet oriented imho. I did work on some general public applications
that ended up pretty well, we still had to twist the framework around
every corners to resolve that kind of issues.

Regards,

~ Simon

On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 11:30 AM, amir hosein khanof

<amir.kha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

If we supposed that any systems with more than 400 concurrent users and
more than 80 pages + 80(TF) is an Enterprise system then:
I want to get your suggestions for the installation, configuration and
deployment of this enterprise system in WLS.
Have do you deployed such an Enterprise scale system with ADF(ADF Faces
+ ADF BC)?
How Many concurrent user do you have?
How many cluster you have and how much RAM you specified for each
cluster?
What is you infrastructure (JVM + WLS version + ADF version + OS version
+ RAM )?

Last, why I am asking such questions? because I have deployed several
enterprise systems with ADF and I see lack of performance in run-time (
I have this problem in SOA/BPM Suite11g also) I am trying to get help
from a brainstorming here.

What is the reality? is ADF suitable for such an enterprise level or it
is very heavy-weight for Enterprise systems?

we have done several migration from Form Builder to ADF the good->
people are satisfied with functionality, design of page and capability
in page component the bad-> in the past they only has database to
configure, now they have very huge RAM consumption from WLS.

one of company that I knew has 15 clusters (each cluster has around 4
GIG RAM)! to support 10000 concurrent users, is this normal?is it
because ADF needs lots of resources compare to other frameworks? or it
is because they do not know how to configure the system? but I am sure
that they know the basic ADF performance hints (APP Pool, Connection
Pool,debug=false,....).
I hope at the end of this brainstorming I found my answer to what is the
best configuration for Cluster+WLS+ ADF..

To my experience, for each 150 user we need 3 gig for an Enterprise
system in ADF Faces, if it is true, suppose how much RAM needed if the
Facebook/Gmail/Oracle Website... was supposed to be written with ADF ;)
...

Thanks
Amir

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the ADF
Enterprise Methodology Group
(http://groups.google.com/group/adf-methodology). To unsubscribe send
email to adf-methodology+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
<mailto:adf-methodology%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>

All content to the ADF EMG lies under the Creative Commons Attribution
3.0 Unported License (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/). Any
content sourced must be attributed back to the ADF EMG with a link to
the Google Group (http://groups.google.com/group/adf-methodology).

--
Simon Lessard, ADF Architect
CMA CGM SYSTeMS
4, quai d'Arenc, 13235 Marseille cedex 02, France

( +33 6 79 37 39 85 (France)

( +1.418.930.0279 (Canada)

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the ADF
Enterprise Methodology Group
(http://groups.google.com/group/adf-methodology). To unsubscribe send
email to adf-methodology+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

All content to the ADF EMG lies under the Creative Commons Attribution
3.0 Unported License (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/). Any
content sourced must be attributed back to the ADF EMG with a link to
the Google Group (http://groups.google.com/group/adf-methodology).


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Simon Lessard  
View profile  
 More options Dec 19 2011, 9:37 am
From: Simon Lessard <simon.lessar...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 15:37:10 +0100
Local: Mon, Dec 19 2011 9:37 am
Subject: Re: [ADF EMG] ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system

Hi John,

Hibernate can also be a costly framework. Also note that I didn't name the
BC in my post, only the data bindings and using POJO instead of rows since
storing rows in the page flow scope won't work well since the row keeps a
reference to its VO which keep a ref to its app module. What we currently
use is disconnected app modules and interface contract using simple POJOs.
We also use the databinding layer only a little (without any pageDef)
simply to declare our data control and retrieve them through a common
locator method. This allow us to leverage the task flow transaction sharing
management (and auto root AM creation). It does requires more code as well
have to manually map the POJO with the row objects, but the speed and
memory gain is impressive, not to mention the passivation is no longer an
issue, ever. As a side note, a POJO's getter method is about 200 times
faster than a Row object's. This many look like a micro optimization, but
in one of our very heavy task, using POJO resulted in a 2 second boost for
the end user.

Regards,

~ Simon

--
Simon Lessard, ADF Architect
*CMA** **CGM SYSTeMS
**4, quai d’Arenc, 13235 Marseille cedex 02, France*
*( +33 6 79 37 39 85 (France)*
*(** **+**1.418.930.0279 (Canada)*

 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Jean-Marc Desvaux  
View profile  
 More options Dec 19 2011, 10:51 am
From: Jean-Marc Desvaux <jm.desv...@gcc.mu>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 07:51:51 -0800 (PST)
Local: Mon, Dec 19 2011 10:51 am
Subject: Re: ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system

Mashrur,

*What about the web logic cost which is most likely to be used with
ADF?*
Of course. But you are missing my main point which was to show the things
to consider when making a Framework choice.
RDBMS for example took years to run on cheap hardware it does not mean
Cobol was the best choice to take.
With Oracle Forms or Reports you sometimes had to use Pro*C or Pro*Cobol
for performance but it was always preferable to avoid when possible.
If you have no choice and need that performance you always have a way to do
it. Simon's approach in using POJO instead of Rows is a great example of it.
But I believe there is a cost to it and once need to weight this cost and
the cost of adding resources when possible.

Jean-Marc


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
shay shmeltzer  
View profile  
 More options Dec 19 2011, 1:50 pm
From: shay shmeltzer <shay.shmelt...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 10:50:34 -0800
Local: Mon, Dec 19 2011 1:50 pm
Subject: Re: [ADF EMG] Re: ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system

One note - A default ADF application that you just built with the wizards
may not be optimized for your usage both in terms of performance and memory
consumption.
Luckily ADF has a lot of tuning capabilities in each one of the layers.
I would highly recommend that you invest some time and investigate what
exactly is causing your heaviness.
Is it that you are getting too much data onto the middletier in the ADF BC
layer? Did you look into the VO tuning parameters?
Is it too much memory per user? did you look into the scope you are using
for saving data in your JSF application? (for example too much session
scope when a shorter scope will be good enough).
and there are many other tuning parameters that can influence your
application performance and memory consumption.
Some good reading is in the ADF section of the *Oracle® Fusion Middleware
Performance and Tuning Guide*:
http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E21764_01/core.1111/e10108/adf.htm#CIHHGADG

And of course there is a bunch of other tunings you can do outside of ADF
in your environment.


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Chad Thompson  
View profile  
 More options Dec 19 2011, 11:53 am
From: Chad Thompson <chad_thomp...@mac.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 16:53:38 +0000 (GMT)
Local: Mon, Dec 19 2011 11:53 am
Subject: Re: [ADF EMG] ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system

On Dec 19, 2011, at 07:12 AM, Mashrur <mash...@mislbd.com> wrote:

> I can't understand this equation actually. Oracle made a tool/
> framework which will end up selling something expensive [web logic] to
> end customer - but that tool is targeted for quick development with
> less scalability option - so, who are those end customers who don't
> need a scalable app but ready to pay a huge amount for infrastructure
> cost [app server, hardware, etc.] ?

When I think of where ADF really 'shines', it's not so much as a massively scalable app (after all, when pursuing 'web scale', you might be jettisoning the notions of JEE, middleware servers and relational databases altogether in the way that Facebook, Evernote, etc. do.) - but it's really in having the tools that allow end users to both manage and analyze large amounts of data.

It's in data management (working with large data sets) where traditional web application development struggles - where dealing with even 5,000 records is easy in 'native' apps (such as Forms, or even Excel), it's difficult to do this with web apps, both from a usability standpoint as well as support for data handling in the browser.

What I reallly, really like about ADF:  it abstracts away the hoops you need to jump through (like AJAX calls, etc.) to make a web app feel more like a native app when it comes to these data-centric types of applications.  (It takes away that need to write those little applets for data handling purposes.)

The tradeoff, of course, is application scalability.  Some of this can be handled with hardware, better clustering, etc. - some can't.

There are some things coming in the HTML5 spec that I'm curious to see eventually be added to things like ADF - for example, will the AJAX-heavy items in ADF be eventually replaced with WebSocket techniques?

- Chad


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Hyangelo Hao  
View profile  
 More options Dec 19 2011, 2:56 pm
From: Hyangelo Hao <hyang...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 11:56:08 -0800 (PST)
Local: Mon, Dec 19 2011 2:56 pm
Subject: Re: ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system
ADF(ADFm, ADFc and ADFv) is clearly a more complex framework compared
to the other more lightweight J2EE frameworks. This complexity is
borne out of the multitudes of abstractions the framework has to do in
order to support a very broad set of use cases. There is not wrong per
se(it is a logical design decision) but as consumers of this framework
we have to be always mindful of this limitation.

For example, we've recently come across a performance problem arising
from the use of the ViewRow's setters when populating programmatic
VOs(half of our applications model stack is composed of programmatic
VOs - long story). The ViewRow's setters ultimately call
setAttributeInternal() which causes events to be fired at the
ViewObject's EntityCache. So in essence, merely setting an attribute
in a row is causing a lot of code to be executed. Advice from Oracle
Support is to find a way to bypass those when possible(e.g. for our
search result screens, we don't really need to fire the EntityCache
events as the ViewObjects are serving only as data holders). This
seems to be possible using populateAttribute(a protected ViewRow
method).

I've been developing using ADF for only about a year but my conclusion
so far is that ADF is not design with performance as a primary
consideration.  The cynic in me tells me that this is because oracle
wants us to buy more WebLogic licenses... :D Kidding aside, there are
other frameworks out there that can easily handle 10-100 times more
load than ADF. And if you are bold enough to venture outside of the
J2EE ecosystem, stacks like node.js can easily handle even more
(concurrent) load. Of course those kinds of frameworks have their
drawbacks in lesser ease of development(which IMO is just a euphemism
for losing the ability to hire mediocre developers and still expect
functional software).

Additionally, ADF is only half the equation. WebLogic is also a
problem by itself. I will not argue about its features. Its feature
set is massive(heck I don't even know all of the features). But
features are not free. In comparison to bare Java containers like
Tomcat, WebLogic is a giant, complicated, resource hungry
chainsaw(whereas Tomcat is *just* a good 'old handheld saw). Depending
on the situation, this may be a good or bad thing.

Even the Integrated WebLogic server is a resource hog. Start it up
without any deployed application and it still consumes a good 1GB of
memory. Combine this with Jdeveloper's 1GB and you are easily
consuming more than half of a typical developer's machine(typical in
the developing/third world at least). Put this in contrast to the
lightweight(comparatively) Eclipse/Tomcat combination and you will see
how some developers find the ADF tech stack to be a giant vat of
sticky, heavy molasses.


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
hasim  
View profile  
 More options Dec 19 2011, 5:22 pm
From: hasim <hsai...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 16:22:20 -0600
Local: Mon, Dec 19 2011 5:22 pm
Subject: Re: [ADF EMG] Re: ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system

ADF is more Application Framework ,not realistically Web Application
Framework.
It is more web oriented to convert Oracle Forms , Portal application to ADF.

ADF is very good framework for RAD for building custom intranet based
ERP , SCM , Business application. I am sure no other framework can
do faster than ADF.

I would not suggest ADF for half a million user or even few thousands
because after
each ADF application deployment with webcenter we have to restart server
which
is OK with small number of users using application build on ADF , but not
with
24/7 kind of application.

Hope to see some massive changes from Oracle about ADF or i would suggest
oracle to move to light weight EJB which they have bought and recognized in
Market.

Thanks,
Hasim


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Mark Robinson  
View profile  
 More options Dec 19 2011, 10:07 pm
From: Mark Robinson <m...@mrobinson.ca>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 19:07:39 -0800
Local: Mon, Dec 19 2011 10:07 pm
Subject: Re: [ADF EMG] Re: ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system

I've said this before but I think it bears repeating.

The ADF tool support is lame.  Specifically, it doesn't really reach the
needs of the advanced developer.  Maven support is broken, as of today, and
JDeveloper is really tooled around helping a single developer work versus
helping a team work.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about.  In JDev, I can push out a new
deployment to my producation WLS server with a simple right click (ಠ_ಠ).
Great for a single guy to help a business unit, awful idea for more
structured group that needs to maintain things like repeatability.
Conversely, there is no Hudson/Jenkins plugin to say "Build and test *this*
version.  If it passes label it as ok and push to test".

JDev devs, here is my Christmas wish.  I want a maven plugin which can
generate an ADF-enabled EAR file as easily as I can generate a vanilla EAR
file.

Mark


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Chris Muir  
View profile  
 More options Dec 19 2011, 10:13 pm
From: Chris Muir <chriscm...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:13:55 +0800
Local: Mon, Dec 19 2011 10:13 pm
Subject: Re: [ADF EMG] Re: ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system
Please keep this thread on topic, discussions on tool support is a new thread.

Chris Muir

On 20 December 2011 11:07, Mark Robinson <m...@mrobinson.ca> wrote:


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
amir hosein khanof  
View profile  
 More options Dec 20 2011, 2:18 am
From: amir hosein khanof <amir.kha...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:18:39 +0400
Local: Tues, Dec 20 2011 2:18 am
Subject: Re: [ADF EMG] Re: ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system

Well,

First of all thanks for all the persons who participate in this topic,
second I will write an highlight of the above posts.
To me the main point is what the *Mashrur* said, he is right.

The problem is not solved if we said that we boost the hardware and in the
future the hardware would be more cheaper... it is not a solution( the
application is not fast just for reference open the Oracle Worklist or
Oracle Workspace with only 1 user and see how it is acting? the application
is served in very low speed! we boosts the hardware we gain more users but
each user is served in low speed).
If we say that ADF is an Enterprise solution we must be able to build an
enterprise system with that.

if we read the *Mashrur *post, we can conclude that the ADF/Jdeveloper team
in Oracle are not very clear in business and marketing and even targeting
the customer! to me, they do not have a bright future successful plan.

what is ADF going to be? a fantasy framework that have tons of features
that you can mix those feature in fragment of seconds but you can only
serve few users in low speed???

or ADF is going to be leader in JEE worlds? of course ADF can be! because
it has all the tools in hand(WLS,Ajax,JSF,...) but the reality is that the
ADF/Jdeveloper team or the product manager seems that concerns only about
features and soon we have to draw a line over "ADF is an Enterprise
Framework".

My aim for this post is not to say that ADF is not as fast as more pure
technologies, of course it is not supposed to be, if we got ease we lose
performance, but my aim is that we need to make the ADF/Jdeveloper team
awake! to me they are not plan to boost this framework they only try to
embellish this framework with features.

to clarify the issue, we are building a car with hundreds of facility and
we totally forgot the engine!!! so in near future we would have a car with
lots of feature and make user entertain for hours and then they would ask
why this car can not gain speed??? do you think that this car would be
successful in market??? of course not!

I think that this kind of posts must be reach to development team of ADF.

Be honest, in the near future the ADF would be a bottleneck for Oracle
Fusion, it is clear, because we are integrating everything with ADF if ADF
is not performing well so the whole Fusion would be in danger suppose we
have Oracle BPM which is very good in performance and can support more than
100,000 concurrent processes but each process has a Human Task developed
with ADF(Worklist is also developed with ADF) which is not performing for
this huge users...

is it really not feasible to boost the framework of ADF??? I do not believe!
are they really care about it? I do not think...

have you visit the various ADF blogs in internet? or ADF presentations in
OOW??? what we saw? only presenting the new features... where is the
presentations for boosting the Framework itself?

and also are this kind of lake of performance related to JSF or taskflow I
do not think so I think the main bottleneck is the ADF BC ( AM Pooling,
VO,Eo,...) just for reference I have wrote an application with ADF Faces
without ADF BC and it has not any performance issue until know the
concurrent user is around 1500 users.

*at last there is an quick overview of this pos*t:
==============================================================

*Anton*

   - If you want that many concurrent users, don't go for ADF
   - Performance will never be as good as other JEE framework.
   - ADF has sacrificed a lot in order to fully support drag and drop and
   generic components.
   - memory usage and CPU goes insane for a single user.
   -  Weblogic is the best JEE application server
   - weblogic is heavy weight server supporting a lot of features of which
   ADF uses almost nothing, features intended for JEE frameworks.
   - JEE can scale horizontal and vertical. ADF will not, simple due to the
   application module being so heavy and the concept of a statefull session
   facade.
   - ADF keeps its application module, which is even heavier then any other
   state full session facade out there
   - It reduces the complexity of JEE application but imposes certain
   drawbacks, one of them being performance and scalability.

*Rajeev*

   - ADF application that uses all ADF layers, is not to be recommended for
   more than 500 concurrent users.
   - ADF is inherently a heavy n/w framework.
   - ADF faces (UI part) is what makes it real heavy.

*Amr*

   - do one thing to rapidly enhance performance by Don't use Data Binding
   Layer aka Drag and Drop
   - return back to the backing beans and manage beans, this will boost
   your performance by 200%
   -  not use so much TF

*Jean-Marc*

   - performance issue related to an hardware resource constraint is not a
   problem as long as it can be sorted out at an affordable cost.
   - ADF is not meant for Google scale apps but that it is for 10,000 users
   Enterprises

*Jang-Vijay Singh *

   -  whole Fusion applications suite could need 120 GB of memory.
   - Historically, hardware (RAM, processing power, storage) has only
   become cheaper and better so it should hardly constrain one from using the
   framework 'where appropriate' .

*Mashrur *

   - Oracle made ADF to sell web logic.
   - Oracle made a tool/framework which will end up selling something
   expensive [web logic]
   - ADF is targeted for quick development with less scalability option
   - who are those end customers who don't need a scalable app but ready to
   pay a huge amount for infrastructure cost [app server, hardware, etc.] ?
   - why ADF Customers (who pay huge money for WLS infrastructure) won't
   have better options to choose from?
   - who are those ISVs who do not want or can't invest a good amount for
   skilled developers [who will be apt at using something productive and
   scalable] to make something which will be bought by some rich end clients?
   - ADF (quick development with less scalability)equation is  not going to
   work in the long run
   - Making everything declarative is may be a way to attract some forms
   developers
   - why it is not possible to make this declarations into something
   compiled in first build..[reducing the need of xml parsing] just wondering!

*John Flack *

   - Make sure that your application server is patched to the latest.
   -  Hibernate/JPA simply don’t perform as well as ADF

*Simon *

   - Hibernate can also be a costly framework
   - Also note that I didn't name the BC in my post, only the data bindings
   and using POJO instead of rows since storing rows in the page flow scope
   won't work well since the row keeps a reference to its VO which keep a ref
   to its app module.
   - disconnected app modules and interface contract using simple POJOs and
   using databinding layer only a little would result in good performance.
   - POJO's getter method is about 200 times faster than a Row object's.
   - in one of our very heavy task, using POJO resulted in a 2 second boost
   for the end user.

*Shay *

   -  A default ADF application that you just built with the wizards may
   not be optimized for your usage both in terms of performance and memory
   consumption.
   - Luckily ADF has a lot of tuning capabilities in each one of the layers.
   - there are many other tuning parameters that can influence your
   application performance and memory consumption.

*Chad *

   - I think of where ADF really 'shines', it's not so much as a massively
   scalable app
   - ADF shines really in having the tools that allow end users to both
   manage and analyze large amounts of data.
   - traditional web application  in data management development struggles
   - where dealing with even 5,000 records is easy in 'native' apps (such as
   Forms, or even Excel), it's difficult to do this with web apps, both from a
   usability standpoint as well as support for data handling in the browser.
   - it abstracts away the hoops you need to jump through (like AJAX calls,
   etc.) to make a web app feel more like a native app when it comes to these
   data-centric types of applications.  (It takes away that need to write
   those little applets for data handling purposes.)
   - The tradeoff, of course, is application scalability.  Some of this can
   be handled with hardware, better clustering, etc. - some can't.

*Hyangelo *

   -  ADF is not design with performance as a primary consideration.
   - oracle wants us to buy more WebLogic licenses :D
   -  there are other frameworks out there that can easily handle 10-100
   times more load than ADF with lesser ease of development
   - WebLogic is also a problem by itself. Its feature set is massive But
   features are not free.
   - Weblogic In comparison to bare Java containers like Tomcat, WebLogic
   is a giant, complicated, resource hungry
   - Even the Integrated WebLogic server is a resource hog.Combine this
   with Jdeveloper's 1GB.

*Hasim *

   - ADF is more Application Framework ,not realistically Web Application
   Framework.
   - ADF is very good framework for RAD for building custom intranet based
   ERP , SCM , Business application.
   - I would not suggest ADF for half a million user or even few thousands
   - after each ADF application deployment with webcenter we have to
   restart server
   - Hope to see some massive changes from Oracle about ADF or
   - I  suggest oracle to move to light weight EJB which they have bought
   and recognized in Market.

==============================================================

Thanks,
Amir

...

read more »


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Chris Muir  
View profile  
 More options Dec 20 2011, 5:59 am
From: Chris Muir <chriscm...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 18:59:23 +0800
Local: Tues, Dec 20 2011 5:59 am
Subject: Re: [ADF EMG] ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system

Amir, thank you for taking time out to summarize all the posts, few people
take the time to do this.

Chris Muir
ADF EMG Group Moderator

On Tuesday, 20 December 2011, amir hosein khanof <amir.kha...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Well,

> First of all thanks for all the persons who participate in this topic,

second I will write an highlight of the above posts.
> To me the main point is what the Mashrur said, he is right.

> The problem is not solved if we said that we boost the hardware and in

the future the hardware would be more cheaper... it is not a solution( the
application is not fast just for reference open the Oracle Worklist or
Oracle Workspace with only 1 user and see how it is acting? the application
is served in very low speed! we boosts the hardware we gain more users but
each user is served in low speed).
> If we say that ADF is an Enterprise solution we must be able to build an

enterprise system with that.

> if we read the Mashrur post, we can conclude that the ADF/Jdeveloper team

in Oracle are not very clear in business and marketing and even targeting
the customer! to me, they do not have a bright future successful plan.

> what is ADF going to be? a fantasy framework that have tons of features

that you can mix those feature in fragment of seconds but you can only
serve few users in low speed???

> or ADF is going to be leader in JEE worlds? of course ADF can be! because

it has all the tools in hand(WLS,Ajax,JSF,...) but the reality is that the
ADF/Jdeveloper team or the product manager seems that concerns only about
features and soon we have to draw a line over "ADF is an Enterprise
Framework".

> My aim for this post is not to say that ADF is not as fast as more pure

technologies, of course it is not supposed to be, if we got ease we lose
performance, but my aim is that we need to make the ADF/Jdeveloper team
awake! to me they are not plan to boost this framework they only try to
embellish this framework with features.

> to clarify the issue, we are building a car with hundreds of facility and

we totally forgot the engine!!! so in near future we would have a car with
lots of feature and make user entertain for hours and then they would ask
why this car can not gain speed??? do you think that this car would be
successful in market??? of course not!

> I think that this kind of posts must be reach to development team of ADF.

> Be honest, in the near future the ADF would be a bottleneck for Oracle

Fusion, it is clear, because we are integrating everything with ADF if ADF
is not performing well so the whole Fusion would be in danger suppose we
have Oracle BPM which is very good in performance and can support more than
100,000 concurrent processes but each process has a Human Task developed
with ADF(Worklist is also developed with ADF) which is not performing for
this huge users...

> is it really not feasible to boost the framework of ADF??? I do not
believe!
> are they really care about it? I do not think...

> have you visit the various ADF blogs in internet? or ADF presentations in

OOW??? what we saw? only presenting the new features... where is the
presentations for boosting the Framework itself?

> and also are this kind of lake of performance related to JSF or taskflow

I do not think so I think the main bottleneck is the ADF BC ( AM Pooling,
VO,Eo,...) just for reference I have wrote an application with ADF Faces
without ADF BC and it has not any performance issue until know the
concurrent user is around 1500 users.

> at last there is an quick overview of this post:
> ==============================================================

> Anton

> If you want that many concurrent users, don't go for ADF
> Performance will never be as good as other JEE framework.
> ADF has sacrificed a lot in order to fully support drag and drop and
generic components.
> memory usage and CPU goes insane for a single user.
>  Weblogic is the best JEE application server
> weblogic is heavy weight server supporting a lot of features of which ADF

uses almost nothing, features intended for JEE frameworks.
> JEE can scale horizontal and vertical. ADF will not, simple due to the

application module being so heavy and the concept of a statefull session
facade.
> ADF keeps its application module, which is even heavier then any other

state full session facade out there
> It reduces the complexity of JEE application but imposes certain

drawbacks, one of them being performance and scalability.

> Rajeev

> ADF application that uses all ADF layers, is not to be recommended for

more than 500 concurrent users.
> ADF is inherently a heavy n/w framework.
> ADF faces (UI part) is what makes it real heavy.

> Amr

> do one thing to rapidly enhance performance by Don't use Data Binding

Layer aka Drag and Drop
> return back to the backing beans and manage beans, this will boost your
performance by 200%
>  not use so much TF

> Jean-Marc

> performance issue related to an hardware resource constraint is not a

problem as long as it can be sorted out at an affordable cost.
> ADF is not meant for Google scale apps but that it is for 10,000 users
Enterprises

> Jang-Vijay Singh

>  whole Fusion applications suite could need 120 GB of memory.
> Historically, hardware (RAM, processing power, storage) has only become

cheaper and better so it should hardly constrain one from using the
framework 'where appropriate' .

> Mashrur

> Oracle made ADF to sell web logic.
> Oracle made a tool/framework which will end up selling something

expensive [web logic]
> ADF is targeted for quick development with less scalability option
> who are those end customers who don't need a scalable app but ready to

pay a huge amount for infrastructure cost [app server, hardware, etc.] ?
> why ADF Customers (who pay huge money for WLS infrastructure) won't have

better options to choose from?
> who are those ISVs who do not want or can't invest a good amount for

skilled developers [who will be apt at using something productive and
scalable] to make something which will be bought by some rich end clients?
> ADF (quick development with less scalability)equation is  not going to

work in the long run
> Making everything declarative is may be a way to attract some forms
developers
> why it is not possible to make this declarations into something compiled

in first build..[reducing the need of xml parsing] just wondering!

> John Flack

> Make sure that your application server is patched to the latest.
>  Hibernate/JPA simply don’t perform as well as ADF

> Simon

> Hibernate can also be a costly framework
> Also note that I didn't name the BC in my post, only the data bindings

and using POJO instead of rows since storing rows in the page flow scope
won't work well since the row keeps a reference to its VO which keep a ref
to its app module.
> disconnected app modules and interface contract using simple POJOs and

using databinding layer only a little would result in good performance.
> POJO's getter method is about 200 times faster than a Row object's.
> in one of our very heavy task, using POJO resulted in a 2 second boost
for the end user.

> Shay

>  A default ADF application that you just built with the wizards may not

be optimized for your usage both in terms of performance and memory
consumption.
> Luckily ADF has a lot of tuning capabilities in each one of the layers.
> there are many other tuning parameters that can influence your

application performance and memory consumption.

> Chad

> I think of where ADF really 'shines', it's not so much as a massively
scalable app
> ADF shines really in having the tools that allow end users to both manage

and analyze large amounts of data.
> traditional web application  in data management development struggles -

where dealing with even 5,000 records is easy in 'native' apps (such as
Forms, or even Excel), it's difficult to do this with web apps, both from a
usability standpoint as well as support for data handling in the browser.
> it abstracts away the hoops you need to jump through (like AJAX calls,

etc.) to make a web app feel more like a native app when it comes to these
data-centric types of applications.  (It takes away that need to write
those little applets for data handling purposes.)
> The tradeoff, of course, is application scalability.  Some of this can be

handled with hardware, better clustering, etc. - some can't.

> Hyangelo

>  ADF is not design with performance as a primary consideration.
> oracle wants us to buy more WebLogic licenses :D
>  there are other frameworks out there that can easily handle 10-100 times

more load than ADF with lesser ease of development
> WebLogic is also a problem by itself. Its feature set is massive But

features are not free.
> Weblogic In comparison to bare Java containers like Tomcat, WebLogic is a

giant, complicated, resource hungry
> Even the Integrated WebLogic server is a resource hog.Combine this with
Jdeveloper's 1GB.

> Hasim

> ADF is more Application Framework ,not realistically Web Application
Framework.
> ADF is very good framework for RAD for building custom intranet based

ERP , SCM , Business application.
> I would not suggest ADF for half a million user or even few thousands
> after each ADF application deployment with webcenter we have to restart
server
> Hope to see some massive changes from Oracle about ADF or
> I  suggest oracle to move to light weight EJB which they have bought and

recognized in Market.

...

read more »


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Michael Koniotiakis  
View profile  
 More options Dec 20 2011, 7:50 am
From: Michael Koniotiakis <mko...@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 04:50:34 -0800 (PST)
Local: Tues, Dec 20 2011 7:50 am
Subject: Re: ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system
Hello
We have migrated an Application from Forms to ADF (more than 60 men
years development)
We are deploying to different customers scaled from 10 users to 1500
users.
Pages are heavy, with many view objects each.
We have performed most of the known tuning practices. yet our load
testing cannot exceed 100 users per cpu with 16G ram.
Scaling up is by clustering many servers
It is still cheaper to sell by named user than by cpu.
 I think the license cost is the main reason that reducing the amount
of concurrent users is not  the main concern of oracle.
if you could load 1000 users in one cpu then the license fees would be
10 times less?
I feel the license fees policy should be more competitive. Then even
if i needed more hardware to support concurrent users the cost would
be acceptable
Even if we need double the time to build an application in another
framework, we would gain more while selling to more users.
This difference is much more with BPM,UCM,WC.
As developers we want to use BPM to complete the application since it
is the most sophisticated and more easy to use.  The maintenance cost
for us would be lower .Yet the license cost seems to be 10 times more
than other competitive frameworks and customers measure than more than
the custom maintenance cost.

Regards
MK


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Nick Aiva  
View profile  
 More options Dec 20 2011, 12:35 pm
From: Nick Aiva <nicka...@yahoo.gr>
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 09:35:51 -0800 (PST)
Local: Tues, Dec 20 2011 12:35 pm
Subject: Re: [ADF EMG] Re: ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system

I think what is missing here is a systematic benchmark document, comparing
the performance and scalability differences  between the same application,
running on the same physical machine and db, developed in:
1.ADF and BC
2.ADF and toplink EJB
3.Plain jsf  and open source model technologies

Is it possible for Oracle to supply their customers with such facts and
figures?
Thank you!
NA
http://nickaiva.blogspot.com


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Hyangelo Hao  
View profile  
 More options Dec 20 2011, 1:05 pm
From: Hyangelo Hao <hyang...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 10:05:44 -0800 (PST)
Local: Tues, Dec 20 2011 1:05 pm
Subject: Re: ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system
Hi Michael,
  By 100 user per cpu do you mean per CPU core or per physical
processor?  If it is the latter, what was the processor?

On Dec 20, 7:50 am, Michael Koniotiakis <mko...@hotmail.com> wrote:


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Ramesh K  
View profile  
 More options Dec 20 2011, 2:59 pm
From: Ramesh K <rkancha...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 13:59:26 -0600
Local: Tues, Dec 20 2011 2:59 pm
Subject: Re: [ADF EMG] Re: ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system

It would be good if Oracle Fussion/Jdeveloper/ADF product
managers/Architects can comment on this kind of threads.

I am sure they must have done some performance tests done for the Fussion
Apps, if they could share the numbers or experience, that would answer
atleast some of the concerns raised.


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Chris Muir  
View profile  
 More options Dec 20 2011, 7:24 pm
From: Chris Muir <chriscm...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 08:24:20 +0800
Local: Tues, Dec 20 2011 7:24 pm
Subject: Re: [ADF EMG] Re: ADF RAM/Performance Problem for enterprise system
I agree, I'd like to see a systematic analysis providing empirical
evidence by members of the group to back up the subjective opinions
please.

In turn I'm sure the Oracle staff are listening.  However please
remember it is Christmas followed by New Year, and like you they have
family and friends to focus on as a priority.

CM.

On 21 December 2011 03:59, Ramesh K <rkancha...@gmail.com> wrote:


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Messages 1 - 25 of 39   Newer >
« Back to Discussions « Newer topic     Older topic »