Doesn’t come around often, Agile house, exciting projects.
If your interested get in touch on 03 9283 9079 or email
s...@btait.com.au
Here is a link to the group I rub on LinkedIn "Australian Rubyists"
gives you an indication of the work I am doing in this space.
http://www.linkedin.com/e/vgh/1479987/
> shouldn’t you be doing work and getting inspired by beautiful code?
It's very hard to inspire oneself with one's code.
> Tsk tsk.
Shh. You're not my mother.
Reading what I thought was a good discussion originating from the
often-dead AdelaideRUG I was disappointed to find it was a *three
lined* job advertisement. As much as well all like short, sharp, shiny
things (aka Twitter) a job advertisement needs to pull me in and then
have at least one or two well-detailed paragraphs about what I can
expect to be working on as well as my pay and the work conditions.
I dearly hope this job you're advertising, isn't the one I saw
advertised the other day under "Super-mega-extreme programming"... I
think it involved writing an entire file whilst sky-diving. Not my
style at all! What if I needed to use the internet? The ping would be
horrendous!
Now let's go on a slight tangent here and imagine my job is being
advertised by me. Completely theoretical. I love my job. This is how
it would go:
BRISBANE-BASED RUBY ON RAILS DEVELOPER
Mocra
Mocra (http://www.mocra.com) is a small startup that started up around
about 8 months ago. We're composed of the infalliable Dr Nic Williams
(http://drnicwilliams.com), the omniscient Bodaniel Jeanes (his
website is uber-top secret) and FIFTEEN!!!-time-world-StarCraft-
champion-in-his-own-head and super-awesome-unstoppable-mega-coder Jack
Chen (also top secret). Together this company has created such
brilliant applications such as Orchestrate (http://orchestrateapp.com)
and we're looking for you to fill our newest position: Code Monkey.
This position entails you working on our latest project rBoard* using
such skills as Agile development, Pair Programming and Scrum. So what
do you get with this job? All of this:
* A desk!
* A chair!
* A kitchen!
* Access to three of the greatest minds!
* Addittional exclamation mark allowance (10 a day, negotiable) !!! **
* AND MORE
Call now and receive a bonus keyboard ABSOLUTELY FREE. That's right,
FREE! $99.95 value, FREE! Limited time offer, not available to all
customers.
Hooked? Well then read on!
We don't require you to have a wanky Computer Science, Nuclear Physics
or Retail degree. We care about what you can offer to the company and,
more importantly, what the company can offer to you! A happy employee
is a productive employee!
Along with the afore-mentioned goodies you also get:
* A salary (~$60,000*** p/a negotiable)
* Sick leave
* Annual leave
* Full-time employment
* A chair!
* 8-5 Monday to Friday (working weekends is optional, not enforced!)
Apply at j...@mocra.com today! Can't wait to see you!
* Not really working on rBoard at Mocra, it's just my own little pet
project for now.
** A keen eye would've noticed that I've used my allowance as of this
point.
*** Theoretical. Not telling you how much I get paid! :)
*I was disappointed to find it was a *three
lined* job advertisement. As much as well all like short, sharp, shiny
things (aka Twitter) a job advertisement needs to pull me in and then
have at least one or two well-detailed paragraphs about what I can
expect to be working on as well as my pay and the work conditions.
*--
Sometimes I like putting the opportunity on the table and then speaking to
anyone who would be interested and then fill them in on all the details.
--
*It's very hard to inspire oneself with one's code*
--
Unfortunate, you should be more self indulgent with ones code.
--
*isn't the one I saw
advertised the other day under "Super-mega-extreme programming"... I
think it involved writing an entire file whilst sky-diving. Not my
style at all! What if I needed to use the internet? The ping would be
horrendous!
*--
Don’t know who posted that but one thing you will find out, actually maybe
you wont, so ill just tell you, I don’t talk shit so...
And FYI your ad sounds like a danoz direct commercial I hope you guys don’t
pitch your software like that.
Appreciate your concerns and they are not noted.
I am just here to put opportunities on the table to good ruby devs, I like
seeing good guys get good jobs, and the majority of you are really nice
human beings, maybe a little jaded with the recruitment industry but once
that hostility is gone, its all good.
You make software, I find people jobs. Its pretty simple.
Your snide remarks can be left at the door.
--
*Shh. You're not my mother.*
--
I hope she taught you common decency, as you have displayed a complete lack
of it here.
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Ryan Bigg <radarliste...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Spam filter?
> Yes.
> > For my email address?
> Yes.
> Inspire?
> Inspired. It happened in the past.
> > shouldn’t you be doing work and getting inspired by beautiful code?
> It's very hard to inspire oneself with one's code.
> > Tsk tsk.
> Shh. You're not my mother.
> Reading what I thought was a good discussion originating from the
> often-dead AdelaideRUG I was disappointed to find it was a *three
> lined* job advertisement. As much as well all like short, sharp, shiny
> things (aka Twitter) a job advertisement needs to pull me in and then
> have at least one or two well-detailed paragraphs about what I can
> expect to be working on as well as my pay and the work conditions.
> I dearly hope this job you're advertising, isn't the one I saw
> advertised the other day under "Super-mega-extreme programming"... I
> think it involved writing an entire file whilst sky-diving. Not my
> style at all! What if I needed to use the internet? The ping would be
> horrendous!
> Now let's go on a slight tangent here and imagine my job is being
> advertised by me. Completely theoretical. I love my job. This is how
> it would go:
> BRISBANE-BASED RUBY ON RAILS DEVELOPER
> Mocra
> Mocra (http://www.mocra.com) is a small startup that started up around
> about 8 months ago. We're composed of the infalliable Dr Nic Williams
> (http://drnicwilliams.com), the omniscient Bodaniel Jeanes (his
> website is uber-top secret) and FIFTEEN!!!-time-world-StarCraft-
> champion-in-his-own-head and super-awesome-unstoppable-mega-coder Jack
> Chen (also top secret). Together this company has created such
> brilliant applications such as Orchestrate (http://orchestrateapp.com)
> and we're looking for you to fill our newest position: Code Monkey.
> This position entails you working on our latest project rBoard* using
> such skills as Agile development, Pair Programming and Scrum. So what
> do you get with this job? All of this:
> * A desk!
> * A chair!
> * A kitchen!
> * Access to three of the greatest minds!
> * Addittional exclamation mark allowance (10 a day, negotiable) !!! **
> * AND MORE
> Call now and receive a bonus keyboard ABSOLUTELY FREE. That's right,
> FREE! $99.95 value, FREE! Limited time offer, not available to all
> customers.
> Hooked? Well then read on!
> We don't require you to have a wanky Computer Science, Nuclear Physics
> or Retail degree. We care about what you can offer to the company and,
> more importantly, what the company can offer to you! A happy employee
> is a productive employee!
> Along with the afore-mentioned goodies you also get:
> * A salary (~$60,000*** p/a negotiable)
> * Sick leave
> * Annual leave
> * Full-time employment
> * A chair!
> * 8-5 Monday to Friday (working weekends is optional, not enforced!)
> Apply at j...@mocra.com today! Can't wait to see you!
> * Not really working on rBoard at Mocra, it's just my own little pet
> project for now.
> ** A keen eye would've noticed that I've used my allowance as of this
> point.
> *** Theoretical. Not telling you how much I get paid! :)
On Apr 16, 4:59 pm, Shamael Keng <shamk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> *I was disappointed to find it was a *three
> lined* job advertisement. As much as well all like short, sharp, shiny
> things (aka Twitter) a job advertisement needs to pull me in and then
> have at least one or two well-detailed paragraphs about what I can
> expect to be working on as well as my pay and the work conditions.
> *--
> Sometimes I like putting the opportunity on the table and then speaking to
> anyone who would be interested and then fill them in on all the details.
How can someone be interested in such little information? It's like
going to a restaurant and the waiter says "The chef recommends food".
It shows no effort on behalf of the recruiter whatsoever. Sell it to
the person for god's sake!
> *isn't the one I saw
> advertised the other day under "Super-mega-extreme programming"... I
> think it involved writing an entire file whilst sky-diving. Not my
> style at all! What if I needed to use the internet? The ping would be
> horrendous!
> *--
> Don’t know who posted that but one thing you will find out, actually maybe
> you wont, so ill just tell you, I don’t talk shit so...
joke |jōk|
noun
a thing that someone says to cause amusement or laughter, esp. a story
with a funny punchline : she was in a mood to tell jokes.
> And FYI your ad sounds like a danoz direct commercial I hope you guys don’t
> pitch your software like that.
parody |ˈparədē|
noun ( pl. -dies)
an imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre
with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect :
> Appreciate your concerns and they are not noted.
bullshit |ˈboŏlˌ sh it| vulgar slang
noun
stupid or untrue talk or writing; nonsense.
> I am just here to put opportunities on the table to good ruby devs,
Who probably already have jobs...
> I like seeing good guys get good jobs,
Perhaps you should recruit yourself into a different position. I'm
tired of your spam and many other people are also. Just go away,
thanks. I'm genuinely surprised you're still in a job.
> and the majority of you are really nice
Ruby community is awesome.
> human beings, maybe a little jaded with the recruitment industry but once
> that hostility is gone, its all good.
> You make software, I find people jobs. Its pretty simple.
I hear McDonalds/Coles/Hungry Jacks/Crazy Horse/KFC/Woolworths/BigW/
Target/Kmart/Myer/David Jones are hiring. Go apply! Give something
back to the community instead of being a leech on the ass of it.
> Your snide remarks can be left at the door.
Or I could continue to write these and hope that you get frustrated
enough to finally go away.
> --
> *Shh. You're not my mother.*
> --
> I hope she taught you common decency, as you have displayed a complete lack
> of it here.
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 7:20 AM, Ryan Bigg <radarliste...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 16, 4:59 pm, Shamael Keng <shamk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > *I was disappointed to find it was a *three
> > lined* job advertisement. As much as well all like short, sharp, shiny
> > things (aka Twitter) a job advertisement needs to pull me in and then
> > have at least one or two well-detailed paragraphs about what I can
> > expect to be working on as well as my pay and the work conditions.
> > *--
> > Sometimes I like putting the opportunity on the table and then speaking
> to
> > anyone who would be interested and then fill them in on all the details.
> How can someone be interested in such little information? It's like
> going to a restaurant and the waiter says "The chef recommends food".
> It shows no effort on behalf of the recruiter whatsoever. Sell it to
> the person for god's sake!
> > *isn't the one I saw
> > advertised the other day under "Super-mega-extreme programming"... I
> > think it involved writing an entire file whilst sky-diving. Not my
> > style at all! What if I needed to use the internet? The ping would be
> > horrendous!
> > *--
> > Don’t know who posted that but one thing you will find out, actually
> maybe
> > you wont, so ill just tell you, I don’t talk shit so...
> joke |jōk|
> noun
> a thing that someone says to cause amusement or laughter, esp. a story
> with a funny punchline : she was in a mood to tell jokes.
> > And FYI your ad sounds like a danoz direct commercial I hope you guys
> don’t
> > pitch your software like that.
> parody |ˈparədē|
> noun ( pl. -dies)
> an imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre
> with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect :
> > Appreciate your concerns and they are not noted.
> bullshit |ˈboŏlˌ sh it| vulgar slang
> noun
> stupid or untrue talk or writing; nonsense.
> > I am just here to put opportunities on the table to good ruby devs,
> Who probably already have jobs...
> > I like seeing good guys get good jobs,
> Perhaps you should recruit yourself into a different position. I'm
> tired of your spam and many other people are also. Just go away,
> thanks. I'm genuinely surprised you're still in a job.
> > and the majority of you are really nice
> Ruby community is awesome.
> > human beings, maybe a little jaded with the recruitment industry but once
> > that hostility is gone, its all good.
> > You make software, I find people jobs. Its pretty simple.
> I hear McDonalds/Coles/Hungry Jacks/Crazy Horse/KFC/Woolworths/BigW/
> Target/Kmart/Myer/David Jones are hiring. Go apply! Give something
> back to the community instead of being a leech on the ass of it.
> > Your snide remarks can be left at the door.
> Or I could continue to write these and hope that you get frustrated
> enough to finally go away.
> > --
> > *Shh. You're not my mother.*
> > --
> > I hope she taught you common decency, as you have displayed a complete
> lack
> > of it here.
> So full of hatred, pull your head in and make some software.
> [unsubscribe]
> --
> SK
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 7:20 AM, Ryan Bigg <radarliste...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> On Apr 16, 4:59 pm, Shamael Keng <shamk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > *I was disappointed to find it was a *three
> > lined* job advertisement. As much as well all like short, sharp,
> shiny
> > things (aka Twitter) a job advertisement needs to pull me in and
> then
> > have at least one or two well-detailed paragraphs about what I can
> > expect to be working on as well as my pay and the work conditions.
> > *--
> > Sometimes I like putting the opportunity on the table and then
> speaking to
> > anyone who would be interested and then fill them in on all the
> details.
> How can someone be interested in such little information? It's like
> going to a restaurant and the waiter says "The chef recommends food".
> It shows no effort on behalf of the recruiter whatsoever. Sell it to
> the person for god's sake!
> > *isn't the one I saw
> > advertised the other day under "Super-mega-extreme programming"... I
> > think it involved writing an entire file whilst sky-diving. Not my
> > style at all! What if I needed to use the internet? The ping would
> be
> > horrendous!
> > *--
> > Don’t know who posted that but one thing you will find out,
> actually maybe
> > you wont, so ill just tell you, I don’t talk shit so...
> joke |jōk|
> noun
> a thing that someone says to cause amusement or laughter, esp. a story
> with a funny punchline : she was in a mood to tell jokes.
> > And FYI your ad sounds like a danoz direct commercial I hope you
> guys don’t
> > pitch your software like that.
> parody |ˈparədē|
> noun ( pl. -dies)
> an imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre
> with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect :
> > Appreciate your concerns and they are not noted.
> bullshit |ˈboŏlˌ sh it| vulgar slang
> noun
> stupid or untrue talk or writing; nonsense.
> > I am just here to put opportunities on the table to good ruby devs,
> Who probably already have jobs...
> > I like seeing good guys get good jobs,
> Perhaps you should recruit yourself into a different position. I'm
> tired of your spam and many other people are also. Just go away,
> thanks. I'm genuinely surprised you're still in a job.
> > and the majority of you are really nice
> Ruby community is awesome.
> > human beings, maybe a little jaded with the recruitment industry
> but once
> > that hostility is gone, its all good.
> > You make software, I find people jobs. Its pretty simple.
> I hear McDonalds/Coles/Hungry Jacks/Crazy Horse/KFC/Woolworths/BigW/
> Target/Kmart/Myer/David Jones are hiring. Go apply! Give something
> back to the community instead of being a leech on the ass of it.
> > Your snide remarks can be left at the door.
> Or I could continue to write these and hope that you get frustrated
> enough to finally go away.
> > --
> > *Shh. You're not my mother.*
> > --
> > I hope she taught you common decency, as you have displayed a
> complete lack
> > of it here.
On Apr 17, 7:43 am, Freerange Future <freerangefut...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> LOL
qft.
Radar wins.
And Shameael, as for the job ad, I'm 10x more likely to apply for
Mocra's ad because we aren't just "code monkeys" (ahem), we can write
code anywhere, what entices us into jobs are culture, pays and the
project. I'd never consider looking at a job with a three line spec.
and pst, 9 out of 10 Rails devs in Australia know who Mocra and Dr Nic
are, we'd have no idea who your client is.
Why on earth would I pay a recruiter 20 odd thousand dollars to find
me someone that I would do better to find myself. And whats worse is
that most recruiters don't bloody listen to me!
On Apr 17, 8:41 am, "m...@keithpitt.com" <keithp...@gmail.com> wrote:
I wasn’t aware that this was a competition, as for the job ad there have
been many a time where I have put in detailed specs, I should of with this
one, but I did have my reasons. If people think my posts are spam, don’t
read them, I don’t force anyone, I am not in your face, the opportunity is
their if you want to take it.
Thanks for the heads up and next time I will put in all of the spec.
But ignorant, elitists attitudes displayed by Mr Biggs, just shows me that
there are some very small pockets in the ruby community which really want to
cotton ball RoR from the general market, it kind of contradicts everything
that the guys at 37 signals are doing, they are creating a language and
framework that is much cleaner and faster than a lot of languages out
their. They are pushing for enterprise level acceptance, and they are
constantly working on all the bugs so that the wider community can see that
"hey check this out coding can actually be a lot of fun and make you a
shitload of money!".
All good, being a recruiter I expect attitudes like this, I don’t dictate
how much I charge, my company does, you have a problem speak to my boss. I
just want to put good opportunities in front of good devs, and hey if the
dev is good enough he will make that company a shitload more than what my
company charges them.
I know 9 out of 10 devs know who Mocra is, geez if i was really a leech I
wouldn’t of called Dr nic saying that their is a potential project for him
worth a far bit of money, with which I am still getting the specs for.
People here only know how "normal" recruiters work, I am here to help the
community or Ruby houses with potential projects & information ( I am a
recruiter its my job to know who is doing what, where and why) and I am also
here to tell guys of potentially better opportunities. Its a give and take.
I am not just about making money with my clients and candidates, I want to
build relationships and get companies and devs to leverage off the people
and contacts that I have.
I know that some of the communiity have a strong opinion of what recruiters
do, but flip the coin and its like me saying that "You make software to fool
people in thinking that they need them" Is that a true statment? You decide.
Business is business you dont need to make it personal.
> And Shameael, as for the job ad, I'm 10x more likely to apply for
> Mocra's ad because we aren't just "code monkeys" (ahem), we can write
> code anywhere, what entices us into jobs are culture, pays and the
> project. I'd never consider looking at a job with a three line spec.
> and pst, 9 out of 10 Rails devs in Australia know who Mocra and Dr Nic
> are, we'd have no idea who your client is.
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Shamael Keng <shamk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I wasn’t aware that this was a competition, as for the job ad there have
> been many a time where I have put in detailed specs, I should of with this
> one, but I did have my reasons. If people think my posts are spam, don’t
> read them, I don’t force anyone, I am not in your face, the opportunity is
> their if you want to take it.
> Thanks for the heads up and next time I will put in all of the spec.
> But ignorant, elitists attitudes displayed by Mr Biggs, just shows me that
> there are some very small pockets in the ruby community which really want to
> cotton ball RoR from the general market, it kind of contradicts everything
> that the guys at 37 signals are doing, they are creating a language and
> framework that is much cleaner and faster than a lot of languages out
> their. They are pushing for enterprise level acceptance, and they are
> constantly working on all the bugs so that the wider community can see that
> "hey check this out coding can actually be a lot of fun and make you a
> shitload of money!".
> All good, being a recruiter I expect attitudes like this, I don’t dictate
> how much I charge, my company does, you have a problem speak to my boss. I
> just want to put good opportunities in front of good devs, and hey if the
> dev is good enough he will make that company a shitload more than what my
> company charges them.
> I know 9 out of 10 devs know who Mocra is, geez if i was really a leech I
> wouldn’t of called Dr nic saying that their is a potential project for him
> worth a far bit of money, with which I am still getting the specs for.
> People here only know how "normal" recruiters work, I am here to help the
> community or Ruby houses with potential projects & information ( I am a
> recruiter its my job to know who is doing what, where and why) and I am also
> here to tell guys of potentially better opportunities. Its a give and take.
> I am not just about making money with my clients and candidates, I want to
> build relationships and get companies and devs to leverage off the people
> and contacts that I have.
> I know that some of the communiity have a strong opinion of what recruiters
> do, but flip the coin and its like me saying that "You make software to fool
> people in thinking that they need them" Is that a true statment? You decide.
> Business is business you dont need to make it personal.
> All good, have a good weekend.
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Oli <oliyo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> And Shameael, as for the job ad, I'm 10x more likely to apply for
>> Mocra's ad because we aren't just "code monkeys" (ahem), we can write
>> code anywhere, what entices us into jobs are culture, pays and the
>> project. I'd never consider looking at a job with a three line spec.
>> and pst, 9 out of 10 Rails devs in Australia know who Mocra and Dr Nic
>> are, we'd have no idea who your client is.
Yes, please do that! I have absolutely no problem with detailed epics
(not quite talking Dune / Lord of the Rings, but you get the idea) of
job advertisements. I want juicy, lovely details (and I guess so do
many other people).
You should have a good weekend too.
Thanks for understanding.
On Apr 17, 11:51 am, Shamael Keng <shamk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ryan, next time I will put a full spec on the role, last thing I want is for
> my communication to be seen as spam.
> Appreciated. Could of gone a diffrent way but at least I have gotten that
> off my chest.
> Have a good weekend.
> Regards
> --
> SK
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Shamael Keng <shamk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I wasn’t aware that this was a competition, as for the job ad there have
> > been many a time where I have put in detailed specs, I should of with this
> > one, but I did have my reasons. If people think my posts are spam, don’t
> > read them, I don’t force anyone, I am not in your face, the opportunity is
> > their if you want to take it.
> > Thanks for the heads up and next time I will put in all of the spec.
> > But ignorant, elitists attitudes displayed by Mr Biggs, just shows me that
> > there are some very small pockets in the ruby community which really want to
> > cotton ball RoR from the general market, it kind of contradicts everything
> > that the guys at 37 signals are doing, they are creating a language and
> > framework that is much cleaner and faster than a lot of languages out
> > their. They are pushing for enterprise level acceptance, and they are
> > constantly working on all the bugs so that the wider community can see that
> > "hey check this out coding can actually be a lot of fun and make you a
> > shitload of money!".
> > All good, being a recruiter I expect attitudes like this, I don’t dictate
> > how much I charge, my company does, you have a problem speak to my boss. I
> > just want to put good opportunities in front of good devs, and hey if the
> > dev is good enough he will make that company a shitload more than what my
> > company charges them.
> > I know 9 out of 10 devs know who Mocra is, geez if i was really a leech I
> > wouldn’t of called Dr nic saying that their is a potential project for him
> > worth a far bit of money, with which I am still getting the specs for.
> > People here only know how "normal" recruiters work, I am here to help the
> > community or Ruby houses with potential projects & information ( I am a
> > recruiter its my job to know who is doing what, where and why) and I am also
> > here to tell guys of potentially better opportunities. Its a give and take.
> > I am not just about making money with my clients and candidates, I want to
> > build relationships and get companies and devs to leverage off the people
> > and contacts that I have.
> > I know that some of the communiity have a strong opinion of what recruiters
> > do, but flip the coin and its like me saying that "You make software to fool
> > people in thinking that they need them" Is that a true statment? You decide.
> > Business is business you dont need to make it personal.
> > All good, have a good weekend.
> > On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Oli <oliyo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> And Shameael, as for the job ad, I'm 10x more likely to apply for
> >> Mocra's ad because we aren't just "code monkeys" (ahem), we can write
> >> code anywhere, what entices us into jobs are culture, pays and the
> >> project. I'd never consider looking at a job with a three line spec.
> >> and pst, 9 out of 10 Rails devs in Australia know who Mocra and Dr Nic
> >> are, we'd have no idea who your client is.
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Ryan Bigg <radarliste...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, please do that! I have absolutely no problem with detailed epics
> (not quite talking Dune / Lord of the Rings, but you get the idea) of
> job advertisements. I want juicy, lovely details (and I guess so do
> many other people).
> You should have a good weekend too.
> Thanks for understanding.
> On Apr 17, 11:51 am, Shamael Keng <shamk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Ryan, next time I will put a full spec on the role, last thing I want is
> for
> > my communication to be seen as spam.
> > Appreciated. Could of gone a diffrent way but at least I have gotten that
> > off my chest.
> > Have a good weekend.
> > Regards
> > --
> > SK
> > On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Shamael Keng <shamk...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > I wasn’t aware that this was a competition, as for the job ad there
> have
> > > been many a time where I have put in detailed specs, I should of with
> this
> > > one, but I did have my reasons. If people think my posts are spam,
> don’t
> > > read them, I don’t force anyone, I am not in your face, the opportunity
> is
> > > their if you want to take it.
> > > Thanks for the heads up and next time I will put in all of the spec.
> > > But ignorant, elitists attitudes displayed by Mr Biggs, just shows me
> that
> > > there are some very small pockets in the ruby community which really
> want to
> > > cotton ball RoR from the general market, it kind of contradicts
> everything
> > > that the guys at 37 signals are doing, they are creating a language and
> > > framework that is much cleaner and faster than a lot of languages out
> > > their. They are pushing for enterprise level acceptance, and they are
> > > constantly working on all the bugs so that the wider community can see
> that
> > > "hey check this out coding can actually be a lot of fun and make you a
> > > shitload of money!".
> > > All good, being a recruiter I expect attitudes like this, I don’t
> dictate
> > > how much I charge, my company does, you have a problem speak to my
> boss. I
> > > just want to put good opportunities in front of good devs, and hey if
> the
> > > dev is good enough he will make that company a shitload more than what
> my
> > > company charges them.
> > > I know 9 out of 10 devs know who Mocra is, geez if i was really a leech
> I
> > > wouldn’t of called Dr nic saying that their is a potential project for
> him
> > > worth a far bit of money, with which I am still getting the specs for.
> > > People here only know how "normal" recruiters work, I am here to help
> the
> > > community or Ruby houses with potential projects & information ( I am a
> > > recruiter its my job to know who is doing what, where and why) and I am
> also
> > > here to tell guys of potentially better opportunities. Its a give and
> take.
> > > I am not just about making money with my clients and candidates, I want
> to
> > > build relationships and get companies and devs to leverage off the
> people
> > > and contacts that I have.
> > > I know that some of the communiity have a strong opinion of what
> recruiters
> > > do, but flip the coin and its like me saying that "You make software to
> fool
> > > people in thinking that they need them" Is that a true statment? You
> decide.
> > > Business is business you dont need to make it personal.
> > > All good, have a good weekend.
> > > On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Oli <oliyo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> And Shameael, as for the job ad, I'm 10x more likely to apply for
> > >> Mocra's ad because we aren't just "code monkeys" (ahem), we can write
> > >> code anywhere, what entices us into jobs are culture, pays and the
> > >> project. I'd never consider looking at a job with a three line spec.
> > >> and pst, 9 out of 10 Rails devs in Australia know who Mocra and Dr Nic
> > >> are, we'd have no idea who your client is.
On Apr 17, 9:48 am, Shamael Keng <shamk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> But ignorant, elitists attitudes displayed by Mr Biggs, just shows me that
> there are some very small pockets in the ruby community which really want to
> cotton ball RoR from the general market, it kind of contradicts everything
> that the guys at 37 signals are doing
I can't see anything that Ryan's written that could be considered
ignorant or elitist, he merely complained about your original post, sp
I'm going to get a little pedantic here, but only to illustrate a
point
37signals have very little realistically to do with the day to day
management of Rails, of the 7 committers to the rails trunk, only 2 of
them are 37s employees, including DHH.
37signals have built a culture of being opinionated and calling a
spade a spade, they've never attempted to sweet-talk the community or
business interests. They've, mostly DHH, publically stated on many
times that Rails is a love it or leave it framework.
> they are creating a language and
> framework that is much cleaner and faster than a lot of languages out their.
They didn't create the language, Yukihiro Matsumoto did, 15 years ago.
That point alone will kill your trust every time you speak to a Ruby
or Ruby on Rails dev.
Rails is only cleaner because Ruby is and Ruby (and this will
potentially get me flamed on a RoR board) is not faster than any of
it's "competitors"
> They are pushing for enterprise level acceptance
No, they're on record as attempting to dispel the myth that frameworks
need to be labelled "enterprise", in-fact, they labelled a blog post
"why enterprise software sucks" (http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/ 669-why-enterprise-software-sucks)
> constantly working on all the bugs so that the wider community can see that
> "hey check this out coding can actually be a lot of fun and make you a
> shitload of money!".
37signals are in the business of making their "own shitload of money"
with their own apps, they've never promoted Rails
My point is if you're getting negative feedback about your interaction
with the community, you're approaching it the wrong way, with the
wrong attitude and with a lack of knowledge about the community that
destroys your legitimacy
*They didn't create the language, Yukihiro Matsumoto did, 15 years ago.
That point alone will kill your trust every time you speak to a Ruby
or Ruby on Rails dev.
Rails is only cleaner because Ruby is and Ruby (and this will
potentially get me flamed on a RoR board) is not faster than any of
it's "competitors"
*--
That has tripped me up before, I keep on making that stupid slip of the
brain. Its rails I was meaning. But hey take it as you want.
*No, they're on record as attempting to dispel the myth that frameworks
need to be labelled "enterprise", in-fact, they labelled a blog post
"why enterprise software sucks"
(**http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/*<http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/>
*669-why-enterprise-software-sucks)*
--
*I have to wonder: what is it about the world of enterprise software that
routinely produces such inelegant user experiences?*
*The people who buy enterprise software aren’t the people who use enterprise
software. That’s where the disconnect begins. And it pulls and pulls and
pulls until the user experience is split from the buying experience so
severely that the software vendors are building for the buyers, not the
users. The experience takes a back seat to the feature list, future
promises, and buzz words. - *
--
This comment here suggests that the only reason they don’t like enterprise
software is because its built without the user in mind.
What I was suggesting is making RoR accessible to enterprise "market"
(companies) and re educating them on the benefits of this technology.
37 signals are in the game for making money right? I am sure if they got the
opportunity to partner up with an Apple or Microsoft they would jump at it,
oh hang on they already have
http://www.infoq.com/news/Apple-to-Include-Ruby-on-Rails
So back to the point, they only think enterprise software sucks because it
doesn’t take the user into account, if they had the opportunity to make
software which was accessible by millions of users, why wouldn’t they? They
want money right? they would be stupid if they didn’t.
--
*37signals are in the business of making their "own shitload of money"
with their own apps, they've never promoted Rails*
*--*
They have never promoted rails? Have you read "Getting Real?" Of course they
are promoting RoR!
--
*My point is if you're getting negative feedback about your interaction
with the community, you're approaching it the wrong way, with the
wrong attitude and with a lack of knowledge about the community that
destroys your legitimacy*
--
Hey I only reacted to Ryan's emails, have a read back he was the one
throwing knives!
He said she said, I have no time for it, but my interaction with the
community to date has been fine, the only backlash I have got is from this
thread.
Plus I am not a coder I am trying to understand it, and with learning you
make some mistakes, no need to shoot down someone learning, dare I say it
but I know far more about this space than any other recruiter I know.
Hey all good once again. Educate or re educate me I am all ears, I have
never professed that I am the all seeing eye when it comes to this, so I
don’t know why you expect it from others. I am learning as I go though.
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Oli <oliyo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 17, 9:48 am, Shamael Keng <shamk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > But ignorant, elitists attitudes displayed by Mr Biggs, just shows me
> that
> > there are some very small pockets in the ruby community which really want
> to
> > cotton ball RoR from the general market, it kind of contradicts
> everything
> > that the guys at 37 signals are doing
> I can't see anything that Ryan's written that could be considered
> ignorant or elitist, he merely complained about your original post, sp
> I'm going to get a little pedantic here, but only to illustrate a
> point
> 37signals have very little realistically to do with the day to day
> management of Rails, of the 7 committers to the rails trunk, only 2 of
> them are 37s employees, including DHH.
> 37signals have built a culture of being opinionated and calling a
> spade a spade, they've never attempted to sweet-talk the community or
> business interests. They've, mostly DHH, publically stated on many
> times that Rails is a love it or leave it framework.
> > they are creating a language and
> > framework that is much cleaner and faster than a lot of languages out
> their.
> They didn't create the language, Yukihiro Matsumoto did, 15 years ago.
> That point alone will kill your trust every time you speak to a Ruby
> or Ruby on Rails dev.
> Rails is only cleaner because Ruby is and Ruby (and this will
> potentially get me flamed on a RoR board) is not faster than any of
> it's "competitors"
> > They are pushing for enterprise level acceptance
> No, they're on record as attempting to dispel the myth that frameworks
> need to be labelled "enterprise", in-fact, they labelled a blog post
> "why enterprise software sucks" (http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/ > 669-why-enterprise-software-sucks)
> > constantly working on all the bugs so that the wider community can see
> that
> > "hey check this out coding can actually be a lot of fun and make you a
> > shitload of money!".
> 37signals are in the business of making their "own shitload of money"
> with their own apps, they've never promoted Rails
> My point is if you're getting negative feedback about your interaction
> with the community, you're approaching it the wrong way, with the
> wrong attitude and with a lack of knowledge about the community that
> destroys your legitimacy
