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Daniel E. Renfer  
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 More options Mar 5 2012, 12:31 pm
From: "Daniel E. Renfer" <duck112...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 12:31:02 -0500
Local: Mon, Mar 5 2012 12:31 pm
Subject: Re: Targeting Spec - Last Call
I think it's best not to conflate targeting a user as a recipient of a
message with ACL rules for that same message. Adding recipient
information to an activity should indicate that that message should be
delivered to those recipients (in addition to normal routing rules) and
that that post should have a slightly higher visibility than the normal
post.

If I @-reply a user, they automatically are pushed a copy, and depending
on the system, are sent an email notification, have a pop-up message
displayed, or have that message routed to special purpose streams. (A
user's "mentioned" feed)

So you would only cc the "public" stream if you wish that message to be
brought to the attention of all the subscribers of that stream.

Assuming I see an alias in an activity, how would I discover more
information about that group? This may be out of scope, but would there
be something similar to webfinger lookup that would allow me to get the
meaning of the alias? Enumerating the users in that group can be
problematic for the reasons Evan stated. (Good luck listing all the
followers of identi.ca's public stream.)

On 03/05/2012 12:07 PM, James M Snell wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 8:45 AM, Evan Prodromou <evan.prodro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Oh, cool. So, I'm particularly interested in this issue as we're
>> starting to deal with limited distribution of activity streams data
>> over PubSubHubbub for OStatus.

>> 1) Typical semantics of "mentioning" someone on a social network are
>> that the posted object is distributed to the person mentioned as well
>> as the author's followers. So, a Twitter post like "@jsnell hello"
>> would go to user @jsnell as well as all followers.

>> Does this secondary audience need to be made explicit? If so, how? If
>> not explicit, I think it would be coded like...

>>    {"to": [{objectType: "person", id: "acct:jsn...@example.com"}]}

>> If explicit, maybe something like:

>>    {"to": [{objectType: "person", id: "acct:jsn...@example.com"}],
>>     "cc": [{objectType: "group", id: "followers-of-evan"}]
>>    }

> In this case, I think targeting the secondary audience would be
> optional but yes, that's how it would be done.

>> ? Some networks also make a "public" stream for the site available, so
>> something like:

>>    {"to": [{objectType: "person", id: "acct:jsn...@example.com"}],
>>     "cc": [{objectType: "group", id: "followers-of-evan"},
>>              {objectType: "group", id: "everyone-on-this-site"}]
>>    }

>> ... or even:

>>    {"to": [{objectType: "person", id: "acct:jsn...@example.com"}],
>>     "cc": [{objectType: "group", id: "followers-of-evan"},
>>              {objectType: "group", id: "everyone-on-this-site"}],
>>              {objectType: "group", id: "everyone-in-the-world"}]
>>    }
> Yes. I would recommend using the "alias" extension property instead of
> id tho. The "alias" is something that was discussed on list a couple
> of months ago. I just remembered this morning that I needed to add it
> to the spec... I've done so now.. It would look like...

>     {"to": [{objectType: "person", id: "acct:jsn...@example.com"}],
>      "cc": [{objectType: "group", id: "followers-of-evan"},
>               {objectType: "group", alias: "@all"}],
>               {objectType: "group", alias: "@world"}]
>    }

> Or something along those lines.. the value of the alias is some fairly
> system specific alias for the object in lieu of using an explicit ID.

>> Another option is to explicitly list all followers, which might be
>> tractable for small numbers of followers but falls down with 1M+
>> follower accounts on some popular systems.
> Using groups would be ideal, yes.

>> 2) If audiences are explicit, there's an implicit ACL in the targeting
>> -- by analogy with email, where it's unusual to allow a user to view a
>> message that was not addressed to them. (Auditing and administration
>> being the main exception here -- email list archives being a secondary
>> one.)

>> It would be useful to either call this out ("Processors SHOULD NOT
>> show activities to people who aren't in the audience"), or explicitly
>> disclaim it ("Audience != ACL").
> Disclaiming it would be good. The targeting information is meant to
> express the intent of the sender not necessarily control what the
> recipient does with it (with clear exception of bto and bcc handling).

>> 3) It's not clear what to do with an activity that has no audience
>> specification. It could mean either a) this isn't targeted to anyone
>> b) it's targeted to some system default (followers, the whole site,
>> the public), or c) the processor doesn't support targeting.

>> It may be useful to call out a default secondary audience when no
>> targeting is specified, e.g. "my followers".
> I would rather leave this up to the implementation. Like I said, the
> targeting information is meant only to express the intent of the
> sender. It's up to the implementation to figure out how to actually
> handle the activity, including selection  of the default audience.

>> Thanks,

>> -Evan

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