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Thomas Fors  
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 More options Jul 29 2008, 2:22 pm
From: Thomas Fors <tomf...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:22:59 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Tues, Jul 29 2008 2:22 pm
Subject: DNG Profile Editor
Hi Everyone,

In case you haven't heard, Adobe has made available for public beta
testing a very cool new tool called DNG Profile Editor.  You can read
more about it here:

http://photoshopnews.com/2008/07/28/adobe-releases-beta-camera-profil...

What's interesting is you can use your raw shot of the Macbeth chart
to create a camera raw profile *much* quicker and easier than using
AcrCalibrator.  I haven't done any detailed comparison on the
resulting profile vs. AcrCalibrator results, but I suspect that the
DNG Profile Editor results will be superior.

Here's the basic steps to performing the calibration on a Mac.  For
Windows users, the steps may vary slightly.

--Tom

1. Download Camera Raw 4.5 from http://adobe.com/cameraraw
2. Mount disk image and drag Camera Raw.plugin to /Library/Application
Support/Adobe/Plug-Ins/CS3/File Formats/
3. Download Beta Camera Profiles from http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles
and run installer
4. Download DNG Profile Editor from http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles
and unzip.  Drag to /Applications
5. Launch Photoshop and open the raw file of your macbeth target.
6. In camera raw, click Save Image...  Choose dng as the file format
and save it.
7. Launch DNG Profile Editor.
8. File / Open DNG File
9. Choose the dng file you saved in step 6.
10. Select the chart tab in DNG Profile Editor.
11. Move the colored circles to the center of the matching colored
corner square in your raw file
12. Click Create Color Table.
13. Choose File/Export <Camera> profile...  Give it a name and save.
14. Exit DNG Profile Editor.
15. Re-launch photoshop and open a raw file.  In Camera Raw, on the
calibration tab, you should now see the profile you just saved.


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Steve Sprengel  
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 More options Jul 29 2008, 8:24 pm
From: "Steve Sprengel" <st...@sprengels.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:24:54 -0500
Local: Tues, Jul 29 2008 8:24 pm
Subject: Re: [acrcal] DNG Profile Editor

Thanks for the heads up.  It's nice to see the details of what Adobe has been up to.  I'd feel more comfortable if they used an IT8 or other target with more colors on it.

From: Thomas Fors
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 1:22 PM
To: AcrCalibrator
Subject: [acrcal] DNG Profile Editor

Hi Everyone,

In case you haven't heard, Adobe has made available for public beta
testing a very cool new tool called DNG Profile Editor.  You can read
more about it here:

http://photoshopnews.com/2008/07/28/adobe-releases-beta-camera-profil...

What's interesting is you can use your raw shot of the Macbeth chart
to create a camera raw profile *much* quicker and easier than using
AcrCalibrator.  I haven't done any detailed comparison on the
resulting profile vs. AcrCalibrator results, but I suspect that the
DNG Profile Editor results will be superior.

Here's the basic steps to performing the calibration on a Mac.  For
Windows users, the steps may vary slightly.

--Tom

1. Download Camera Raw 4.5 from http://adobe.com/cameraraw
2. Mount disk image and drag Camera Raw.plugin to /Library/Application
Support/Adobe/Plug-Ins/CS3/File Formats/
3. Download Beta Camera Profiles from http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles
and run installer
4. Download DNG Profile Editor from http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles
and unzip.  Drag to /Applications
5. Launch Photoshop and open the raw file of your macbeth target.
6. In camera raw, click Save Image...  Choose dng as the file format
and save it.
7. Launch DNG Profile Editor.
8. File / Open DNG File
9. Choose the dng file you saved in step 6.
10. Select the chart tab in DNG Profile Editor.
11. Move the colored circles to the center of the matching colored
corner square in your raw file
12. Click Create Color Table.
13. Choose File/Export <Camera> profile...  Give it a name and save.
14. Exit DNG Profile Editor.
15. Re-launch photoshop and open a raw file.  In Camera Raw, on the
calibration tab, you should now see the profile you just saved.


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Shao Zhang  
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 More options Jul 29 2008, 9:04 pm
From: "Shao Zhang" <shaocahol...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 18:04:33 -0700
Local: Tues, Jul 29 2008 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [acrcal] Re: DNG Profile Editor
How much more expensive are good IT8 targets compared to the chart
AcrCalibrator uses?


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Steve Sprengel  
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 More options Jul 29 2008, 10:17 pm
From: "Steve Sprengel" <st...@sprengels.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:17:38 -0500
Local: Tues, Jul 29 2008 10:17 pm
Subject: Re: [acrcal] Re: DNG Profile Editor

IT8's can be cheaper than the color-checker.  They have a glossy finish and are used for scanner calibration so aren't ideal for camera calibration but I'm sure they can work if you are careful to keep environmental reflections to a minimum and relatively neutral colored.

My IT8 came along with a $70 printer/camera/scanner ICC-profile creation program called ProfilePrism from http://www.ddisoftware.com/ which also included the specific reference file, so I can use it with other programs, such as Imatest, which I use to measure the color-accuracy of my camera profiles.  http://www.imatest.com/

On B&H the ColorCheckers are $50-$70 and Kodak Q-60 5x7 reflective target (which has a part number that includes IT8) is $40 or $100 and I'm not sure what is different about them:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/shop/12003/Color_Management_Accessories...
(2nd page when sorted A-Z)

On Imatest's site, their targets are available for $10 from a German company:
http://www.targets.coloraid.de/

From: Shao Zhang
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 8:04 PM
To: acrcalibrator@googlegroups.com
Subject: [acrcal] Re: DNG Profile Editor

How much more expensive are good IT8 targets compared to the chart
AcrCalibrator uses?


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Hermit  
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 More options Jul 30 2008, 4:49 am
From: Hermit <ws....@lam.ws>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 01:49:13 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed, Jul 30 2008 4:49 am
Subject: Re: DNG Profile Editor
I have been trying out the DNG Profile Editor for a while. The editor
is indeed a real time save as it takes NO time to calibrate the
colorchecker. What is even cooler is that it allows you to embed dual
lighting (6500k and 2850k) into one profile.

However, it is not without issues. For example, I ran into a problem
with many of my Nikon D3/D300/D700 RAW files. Many of them are claimed
to be 'overexposed' by the DNG Profile Editor. Does that suggest that
Nikon metering (all shot in Matrix in Av mode) is at fault? (Canon's
RAW are all ok so far) or does it imply that DNG Profile Editor has a
very low tolerance of exposure?

Another issue I ran into is when I tried to profile the D3 on a wide
ISO range. At ISO25600, DNG Profile Editor complained that one of the
grey patches has a heavy color cast and refuse to proceed with the
calibration (this is after the image has been white-balanced)

From what I can tell, the colors from FORS script and the DNG Profile
Editor results are not even close... I have no idea how I could
'verify' the results to see which is better.

Do you guys think it is worth the trouble to profile every ISO? or at
least every stop of ISO?

Regards, ws


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Discussion subject changed to "Camera RAW settings (brightness, contrast, tone-curve)" by Markus
Markus  
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 More options Jul 30 2008, 5:34 am
From: Markus <markus.bro...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:34:42 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed, Jul 30 2008 5:34 am
Subject: Camera RAW settings (brightness, contrast, tone-curve)
I played a bit with the Profile Editor but have some issues validating
the obtained profile.

After I did the calibration which was finished in about a second
(impressive), I exported the profile and applied it to the DNG in
Camera RAW (16bit, ProPhotoRGB). Now, using a Photoshop script such as
"Read_Colors_CC24" enables validation of the profile against the
target colors.

Here I have a problem:
The target colors, luminance & saturation are way off (DE2000=~10)
when I use the default CameraRAW settings (Brightness=50/Contrast=25/
Tone-Curve=medium/saturation=0). Setting Brightness to 0, Contrast to
-10 and Tone-Curve to linear and saturation to +10, I get at least the
grey scale perfect and the colors are close (DE2000=~2).

Now, the thing is, in real live I much prefer to use the default
settings (brightness=50/Contrast=25/Tone-Curve=medium/saturation=0).
Does this mean my colors can only be correct for these settings I
found ? How does the DNG Profile Editor read the DNG file ? Which
parameters does it apply (brightness/contrast etc).

Maybe I am missing an important point here, but curious to hear what
you have to say.
Many thanks.

On Jul 29, 7:22 pm, Thomas Fors <tomf...@gmail.com> wrote:


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Markus  
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 More options Jul 30 2008, 5:44 am
From: Markus <markus.bro...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:44:28 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed, Jul 30 2008 5:44 am
Subject: Re: Camera RAW settings (brightness, contrast, tone-curve)
PS: I am aware that ProfileEditor only cares about color, not
luminance. Therefore I also report the DEColor values here, which are
more informative than the DE2000 in that respect.

DEColor (default settings): ~3
DEColor (brightness=0,Contrast=-10, Tone-Curve=linear, saturationto=
+10): ~1.5

So about two fold color delta when using the default ACR settings.

Thanks

On Jul 30, 10:34 am, Markus <markus.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:


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Discussion subject changed to "DNG Profile Editor" by Steve Sprengel
Steve Sprengel  
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 More options Jul 30 2008, 11:54 am
From: "Steve Sprengel" <st...@sprengels.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:54:18 -0500
Local: Wed, Jul 30 2008 11:54 am
Subject: Re: [acrcal] Re: DNG Profile Editor

To check the accuracy of your raw conversions you can use a script from Rags-Gardner against any one of a number of color targets:
http://www.rags-int-inc.com/PhotoTechStuff/ColorCalibration/

Presumably you are using the color-checker for the calibration so Read_Colors_CC24.jsx would be the script to use; however, if you have any of the other color-targets listed, you can validate against shots of those as well.

I use a program called Imatest to check the accuracy of my calibrations:  http://www.imatest.com/   Where besides characterizing the error with a single overall number, also provides a 2D and 3D error plots that show which colors have the worst error.  
-
An overexposure issue is likely detected by the script seeing one of the color-channels or perhaps the white-patch clipped at maximum value.  Clipping causes color-shifting so would introduce error in the profile.

There is likely a metering difference between Canon and Nikon and you might use M-mode and a gray card or spot-meter on the gray square below the yellow (which should be the same as a gray card) or use bracketed exposures until you figure out what EC adjustment to use for a non-clipped exposure with the Nikons.  
-
I would not worry about calibrating high ISO images for the reason you have discovered:  you are getting color-error warnings because the color-noise (random artificial color added by electrons that come from heat as opposed to electrons that come from photons) does not average out completely in the color sampling area of each square and so will introduce error in the resulting profile.  I would use the lowest ISO you have available when shooting the color-checker.

From: Hermit
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 3:49 AM
To: AcrCalibrator
Subject: [acrcal] Re: DNG Profile Editor

I have been trying out the DNG Profile Editor for a while. The editor
is indeed a real time save as it takes NO time to calibrate the
colorchecker. What is even cooler is that it allows you to embed dual
lighting (6500k and 2850k) into one profile.

However, it is not without issues. For example, I ran into a problem
with many of my Nikon D3/D300/D700 RAW files. Many of them are claimed
to be 'overexposed' by the DNG Profile Editor. Does that suggest that
Nikon metering (all shot in Matrix in Av mode) is at fault? (Canon's
RAW are all ok so far) or does it imply that DNG Profile Editor has a
very low tolerance of exposure?

Another issue I ran into is when I tried to profile the D3 on a wide
ISO range. At ISO25600, DNG Profile Editor complained that one of the
grey patches has a heavy color cast and refuse to proceed with the
calibration (this is after the image has been white-balanced)

From what I can tell, the colors from FORS script and the DNG Profile
Editor results are not even close... I have no idea how I could
'verify' the results to see which is better.

Do you guys think it is worth the trouble to profile every ISO? or at
least every stop of ISO?

Regards, ws


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Discussion subject changed to "Camera RAW settings (brightness, contrast, tone-curve)" by Steve Sprengel
Steve Sprengel  
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 More options Jul 30 2008, 12:08 pm
From: "Steve Sprengel" <st...@sprengels.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:08:05 -0500
Local: Wed, Jul 30 2008 12:08 pm
Subject: Re: [acrcal] Re: Camera RAW settings (brightness, contrast, tone-curve)

The differences in color-accuracy you are seeing are what is to be expected.  

A photometrically accurate photo is not the most pleasing photo, and the default ACR settings--which are intended to give a pleasing photo, have increased contrast and a non-linear toning curve which has the side-effect of increased saturation, so the color-error should be more for a "pleasing" version.  

If you have used Tom's script, the first thing it did was compute values for the Exposure, Black-point, Brightness and Contrast as well as set the Tone curve to Linear to minimize the error in the gray-patches.  This linearized the gamma as much as possible and the color-profile was computed from that.  If you did the same color-validation with Tom's script results you'd see more accurate color with the linear-gamma version compared to the more pleasing default ACR version.

Don't worry about it.

From: Markus
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 4:44 AM
To: AcrCalibrator
Subject: [acrcal] Re: Camera RAW settings (brightness, contrast, tone-curve)

PS: I am aware that ProfileEditor only cares about color, not
luminance. Therefore I also report the DEColor values here, which are
more informative than the DE2000 in that respect.

DEColor (default settings): ~3
DEColor (brightness=0,Contrast=-10, Tone-Curve=linear, saturationto=
+10): ~1.5

So about two fold color delta when using the default ACR settings.

Thanks

On Jul 30, 10:34 am, Markus <markus.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:


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Markus  
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 More options Jul 31 2008, 5:58 am
From: Markus <markus.bro...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 02:58:35 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 5:58 am
Subject: Re: Camera RAW settings (brightness, contrast, tone-curve)
Dear Steve

Thanks for this information - so nothing wrong in the way I test the
results ;)
I would have expected the default ACR settings are a bit more
"normalised", but apparently arn't.


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Discussion subject changed to "DNG Profile Editor" by MacUser
MacUser  
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 More options Jul 31 2008, 7:16 am
From: MacUser <mvo...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 04:16:51 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 7:16 am
Subject: Re: DNG Profile Editor
Hello Thomas,

Thanks for the info and the workflow.

The DNG Profile Editor worked fine and very fast although it is picky
on te input.
I had to shoot several new test images because my old ones where "over
exposed".
The new ones where also over exposed and when I I got that right they
had a "color cast".
So there is a check on the quality of the input images and I think
that is fine to avoid the creation of a false CameraProfile.

What do you think, is your work done now Adobe has launched there DNG
Profile Editor ?

Best,

Wim

On Jul 29, 8:22 pm, Thomas Fors <tomf...@gmail.com> wrote:


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midhelp@gmail.com  
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 More options Sep 17 2008, 4:57 pm
From: "midh...@gmail.com" <midh...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:57:31 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed, Sep 17 2008 4:57 pm
Subject: Re: DNG Profile Editor
I followed the steps but once I tried open one of my Nikon D300 DNG
files, it said "DNG Profile Editor could not open the selected image.
Note that the selected image must be a valid dng color image." I
couldn't figure out what the problem is. The .dng file I tried to open
works well on Bridge. It displays correct preview and can be opened
and edited in ACR without any problem. Nothing seems to be wrong with
the DNG file.

On Jul 30, 3:22 am, Thomas Fors <tomf...@gmail.com> wrote:


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