I've seen that in the last period Google made some changes to Google Sites which unfortunately made this service less accessible than before.
The biggest accessibility issues I found, not exactly in the order below, were:
1. The buttons for creating and editting web pages are not text-based anymore, but buttons which are not labeled, and some browsers allow pushing those buttons only by using the JAWS cursor, but without those labels, they can't be found with the JAWS cursor. It would be nice if those buttons will be text-based again, or labeled.
2. Google Sites was not officially supporting IE6, but IE6 was able to access Google Sites better than other browsers which are less accessible. Google Chrome is a little accessible, but only a little. Firefox latest version is accessible, but on Google Sites frozes the computer and I've seen that it eats many hundreads of MB of memory and it is hard to start installing and uninstalling older and older versions of Firefox in order to test which one can be used better.
Until a few days ago I was able to include/upload images to Google Sites using IE6, but in the last few days this was not possible anymore. In some cases I found an error message printed on the page telling that the file is empty, even though I tried to upload images that were uploaded on Google Sites a few days ago without problems.
I was able to include images with Firefox 3.6, but very hard, because in some cases with Firefox 3.6 I wasn't able to add the text (because the textarea was reported as read-only), and because after clicking with the JAWS cursor on the "Include" menu, it was very hard to find the menu option "Images". I have tried to move the cursor up and down for a lot of times, but only after very many trials I found that menu item. Usually JAWS reported the same thing as the cursor was locked on a single line.
With IE6, after browsing for the image Google Sites prompted an "OK" button which needed to be just pressed, but now Google Sites doesn't prompt that button anymore and it should be found as a separate form somewhere at the end of the page, as a common form, not in application mode as before.
And what's worst, sometimes that "Ok" button that should be used for confirming the image inclusion appears as disabled, so it can't be used who knows for what reasons, so the single solution is to refresh the page and do the inclusion again, or even to close the browser and try again.
Starting for a few days, IE6 doesn't show that OK button at all after including an image, so it is not included, and pressing the Save button either don't do anything, or it makes JAWS speak an error message that something is wrong, but I couldn't understand that very short message very well, and I couldn't find it printed somewhere on the page in order to be able to read it better word by word, but it was something about a thing which is not valid or something like that.
3. The key combination Control+S for saving the currently eddited page sometimes works but sometimes not, and it just makes a click as when pressing a disabled button. Sometimes nothing happends even if I press the Save button with the JAWS cursor, and in those cases usually nothing happends even if I press the Cancel button and I need to close the window and open it again.
4. The menus that should be used for accessing more actions, like deleting the current page or for including an image are very hard accessible, only by using the JAWS cursor, and this was better accessible in IE6 which now can't be used for including images as before, because in Firefox, especially in the newest versions, JAWS cursor can find very few elements on the screen and I've seen that after an Insert+Escape for refreshing the buffer, instead of seeing the screen better, JAWS was able to read just the title bar of Firefox window. And with Chrome is even worse. And after choosing an action, for example for deleting the current page, the dialog that request a confirmation for deleting it or not, is also hard to access with the JAWS cursor in order to press the "Delete" button. (At least it is good that there is the hotkey Shift+3 for deleting the current page. It would be very good if there would be more hotkeys for more actions, including for confirmation dialogs, and have somewhere a list of all the hotkeys.)
I am absolutely speechless that you had to revert to IE 6 to use this service. Various thread replies I have seen on this list by Google employees, are boasting Chrome's so called greatness. While testing withe Chrome, were you using JAWS still or did you use ChromeVox?
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Octavian Rasnita <orasn...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello,
> I've seen that in the last period Google made some changes to Google Sites > which unfortunately made this service less accessible than before.
> The biggest accessibility issues I found, not exactly in the order below, > were:
> 1. The buttons for creating and editting web pages are not text-based > anymore, but buttons which are not labeled, and some browsers allow pushing > those buttons only by using the JAWS cursor, but without those labels, they > can't be found with the JAWS cursor. > It would be nice if those buttons will be text-based again, or labeled.
> 2. Google Sites was not officially supporting IE6, but IE6 was able to > access Google Sites better than other browsers which are less accessible. > Google Chrome is a little accessible, but only a little. Firefox latest > version is accessible, but on Google Sites frozes the computer and I've seen > that it eats many hundreads of MB of memory and it is hard to start > installing and uninstalling older and older versions of Firefox in order to > test which one can be used better.
> Until a few days ago I was able to include/upload images to Google Sites > using IE6, but in the last few days this was not possible anymore. In some > cases I found an error message printed on the page telling that the file is > empty, even though I tried to upload images that were uploaded on Google > Sites a few days ago without problems.
> I was able to include images with Firefox 3.6, but very hard, because in > some cases with Firefox 3.6 I wasn't able to add the text (because the > textarea was reported as read-only), and because after clicking with the > JAWS cursor on the "Include" menu, it was very hard to find the menu option > "Images". I have tried to move the cursor up and down for a lot of times, > but only after very many trials I found that menu item. Usually JAWS > reported the same thing as the cursor was locked on a single line.
> With IE6, after browsing for the image Google Sites prompted an "OK" button > which needed to be just pressed, but now Google Sites doesn't prompt that > button anymore and it should be found as a separate form somewhere at the > end of the page, as a common form, not in application mode as before.
> And what's worst, sometimes that "Ok" button that should be used for > confirming the image inclusion appears as disabled, so it can't be used who > knows for what reasons, so the single solution is to refresh the page and do > the inclusion again, or even to close the browser and try again.
> Starting for a few days, IE6 doesn't show that OK button at all after > including an image, so it is not included, and pressing the Save button > either don't do anything, or it makes JAWS speak an error message that > something is wrong, but I couldn't understand that very short message very > well, and I couldn't find it printed somewhere on the page in order to be > able to read it better word by word, but it was something about a thing > which is not valid or something like that.
> 3. The key combination Control+S for saving the currently eddited page > sometimes works but sometimes not, and it just makes a click as when > pressing a disabled button. Sometimes nothing happends even if I press the > Save button with the JAWS cursor, and in those cases usually nothing > happends even if I press the Cancel button and I need to close the window > and open it again.
> 4. The menus that should be used for accessing more actions, like deleting > the current page or for including an image are very hard accessible, only by > using the JAWS cursor, and this was better accessible in IE6 which now can't > be used for including images as before, because in Firefox, especially in > the newest versions, JAWS cursor can find very few elements on the screen > and I've seen that after an Insert+Escape for refreshing the buffer, instead > of seeing the screen better, JAWS was able to read just the title bar of > Firefox window. And with Chrome is even worse. > And after choosing an action, for example for deleting the current page, the > dialog that request a confirmation for deleting it or not, is also hard to > access with the JAWS cursor in order to press the "Delete" button. > (At least it is good that there is the hotkey Shift+3 for deleting the > current page. It would be very good if there would be more hotkeys for more > actions, including for confirmation dialogs, and have somewhere a list of > all the hotkeys.)
> Thanks.
> --Octavian
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "accessible" group. > To post to this group, send email to accessible@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > accessible+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/accessible?hl=en.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan E. Benson" <ryan.ben...@gmail.com> To: <accessible@googlegroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2011 1:29 AM Subject: Re: Google sites accessibility issues
> Octavian,
> I am absolutely speechless that you had to revert to IE 6 to use this > service. Various thread replies I have seen on this list by Google > employees, are boasting Chrome's so called greatness. While testing > withe Chrome, were you using JAWS still or did you use ChromeVox?
> -- > Ryan E. Benson
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Octavian Rasnita <orasn...@gmail.com> > wrote: >> Hello,
>> I've seen that in the last period Google made some changes to Google >> Sites >> which unfortunately made this service less accessible than before.
>> The biggest accessibility issues I found, not exactly in the order below, >> were:
>> 1. The buttons for creating and editting web pages are not text-based >> anymore, but buttons which are not labeled, and some browsers allow >> pushing >> those buttons only by using the JAWS cursor, but without those labels, >> they >> can't be found with the JAWS cursor. >> It would be nice if those buttons will be text-based again, or labeled.
>> 2. Google Sites was not officially supporting IE6, but IE6 was able to >> access Google Sites better than other browsers which are less accessible. >> Google Chrome is a little accessible, but only a little. Firefox latest >> version is accessible, but on Google Sites frozes the computer and I've >> seen >> that it eats many hundreads of MB of memory and it is hard to start >> installing and uninstalling older and older versions of Firefox in order >> to >> test which one can be used better.
>> Until a few days ago I was able to include/upload images to Google Sites >> using IE6, but in the last few days this was not possible anymore. In >> some >> cases I found an error message printed on the page telling that the file >> is >> empty, even though I tried to upload images that were uploaded on Google >> Sites a few days ago without problems.
>> I was able to include images with Firefox 3.6, but very hard, because in >> some cases with Firefox 3.6 I wasn't able to add the text (because the >> textarea was reported as read-only), and because after clicking with the >> JAWS cursor on the "Include" menu, it was very hard to find the menu >> option >> "Images". I have tried to move the cursor up and down for a lot of times, >> but only after very many trials I found that menu item. Usually JAWS >> reported the same thing as the cursor was locked on a single line.
>> With IE6, after browsing for the image Google Sites prompted an "OK" >> button >> which needed to be just pressed, but now Google Sites doesn't prompt that >> button anymore and it should be found as a separate form somewhere at the >> end of the page, as a common form, not in application mode as before.
>> And what's worst, sometimes that "Ok" button that should be used for >> confirming the image inclusion appears as disabled, so it can't be used >> who >> knows for what reasons, so the single solution is to refresh the page and >> do >> the inclusion again, or even to close the browser and try again.
>> Starting for a few days, IE6 doesn't show that OK button at all after >> including an image, so it is not included, and pressing the Save button >> either don't do anything, or it makes JAWS speak an error message that >> something is wrong, but I couldn't understand that very short message >> very >> well, and I couldn't find it printed somewhere on the page in order to be >> able to read it better word by word, but it was something about a thing >> which is not valid or something like that.
>> 3. The key combination Control+S for saving the currently eddited page >> sometimes works but sometimes not, and it just makes a click as when >> pressing a disabled button. Sometimes nothing happends even if I press >> the >> Save button with the JAWS cursor, and in those cases usually nothing >> happends even if I press the Cancel button and I need to close the window >> and open it again.
>> 4. The menus that should be used for accessing more actions, like >> deleting >> the current page or for including an image are very hard accessible, only >> by >> using the JAWS cursor, and this was better accessible in IE6 which now >> can't >> be used for including images as before, because in Firefox, especially in >> the newest versions, JAWS cursor can find very few elements on the screen >> and I've seen that after an Insert+Escape for refreshing the buffer, >> instead >> of seeing the screen better, JAWS was able to read just the title bar of >> Firefox window. And with Chrome is even worse. >> And after choosing an action, for example for deleting the current page, >> the >> dialog that request a confirmation for deleting it or not, is also hard >> to >> access with the JAWS cursor in order to press the "Delete" button. >> (At least it is good that there is the hotkey Shift+3 for deleting the >> current page. It would be very good if there would be more hotkeys for >> more >> actions, including for confirmation dialogs, and have somewhere a list of >> all the hotkeys.)
>> Thanks.
>> --Octavian
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "accessible" group. >> To post to this group, send email to accessible@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> accessible+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/accessible?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "accessible" group. > To post to this group, send email to accessible@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > accessible+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/accessible?hl=en.
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 6:39 PM, Octavian Rasnita <orasn...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Ryan,
> I was using JAWS because I am used to use it better than any other screen > reader.
> --Octavian
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan E. Benson" <ryan.ben...@gmail.com> > To: <accessible@googlegroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2011 1:29 AM > Subject: Re: Google sites accessibility issues
>> Octavian,
>> I am absolutely speechless that you had to revert to IE 6 to use this >> service. Various thread replies I have seen on this list by Google >> employees, are boasting Chrome's so called greatness. While testing >> withe Chrome, were you using JAWS still or did you use ChromeVox?
>> -- >> Ryan E. Benson
>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Octavian Rasnita <orasn...@gmail.com> >> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> I've seen that in the last period Google made some changes to Google >>> Sites >>> which unfortunately made this service less accessible than before.
>>> The biggest accessibility issues I found, not exactly in the order below, >>> were:
>>> 1. The buttons for creating and editting web pages are not text-based >>> anymore, but buttons which are not labeled, and some browsers allow >>> pushing >>> those buttons only by using the JAWS cursor, but without those labels, >>> they >>> can't be found with the JAWS cursor. >>> It would be nice if those buttons will be text-based again, or labeled.
>>> 2. Google Sites was not officially supporting IE6, but IE6 was able to >>> access Google Sites better than other browsers which are less accessible. >>> Google Chrome is a little accessible, but only a little. Firefox latest >>> version is accessible, but on Google Sites frozes the computer and I've >>> seen >>> that it eats many hundreads of MB of memory and it is hard to start >>> installing and uninstalling older and older versions of Firefox in order >>> to >>> test which one can be used better.
>>> Until a few days ago I was able to include/upload images to Google Sites >>> using IE6, but in the last few days this was not possible anymore. In >>> some >>> cases I found an error message printed on the page telling that the file >>> is >>> empty, even though I tried to upload images that were uploaded on Google >>> Sites a few days ago without problems.
>>> I was able to include images with Firefox 3.6, but very hard, because in >>> some cases with Firefox 3.6 I wasn't able to add the text (because the >>> textarea was reported as read-only), and because after clicking with the >>> JAWS cursor on the "Include" menu, it was very hard to find the menu >>> option >>> "Images". I have tried to move the cursor up and down for a lot of times, >>> but only after very many trials I found that menu item. Usually JAWS >>> reported the same thing as the cursor was locked on a single line.
>>> With IE6, after browsing for the image Google Sites prompted an "OK" >>> button >>> which needed to be just pressed, but now Google Sites doesn't prompt that >>> button anymore and it should be found as a separate form somewhere at the >>> end of the page, as a common form, not in application mode as before.
>>> And what's worst, sometimes that "Ok" button that should be used for >>> confirming the image inclusion appears as disabled, so it can't be used >>> who >>> knows for what reasons, so the single solution is to refresh the page and >>> do >>> the inclusion again, or even to close the browser and try again.
>>> Starting for a few days, IE6 doesn't show that OK button at all after >>> including an image, so it is not included, and pressing the Save button >>> either don't do anything, or it makes JAWS speak an error message that >>> something is wrong, but I couldn't understand that very short message >>> very >>> well, and I couldn't find it printed somewhere on the page in order to be >>> able to read it better word by word, but it was something about a thing >>> which is not valid or something like that.
>>> 3. The key combination Control+S for saving the currently eddited page >>> sometimes works but sometimes not, and it just makes a click as when >>> pressing a disabled button. Sometimes nothing happends even if I press >>> the >>> Save button with the JAWS cursor, and in those cases usually nothing >>> happends even if I press the Cancel button and I need to close the window >>> and open it again.
>>> 4. The menus that should be used for accessing more actions, like >>> deleting >>> the current page or for including an image are very hard accessible, only >>> by >>> using the JAWS cursor, and this was better accessible in IE6 which now >>> can't >>> be used for including images as before, because in Firefox, especially in >>> the newest versions, JAWS cursor can find very few elements on the screen >>> and I've seen that after an Insert+Escape for refreshing the buffer, >>> instead >>> of seeing the screen better, JAWS was able to read just the title bar of >>> Firefox window. And with Chrome is even worse. >>> And after choosing an action, for example for deleting the current page, >>> the >>> dialog that request a confirmation for deleting it or not, is also hard >>> to >>> access with the JAWS cursor in order to press the "Delete" button. >>> (At least it is good that there is the hotkey Shift+3 for deleting the >>> current page. It would be very good if there would be more hotkeys for >>> more >>> actions, including for confirmation dialogs, and have somewhere a list of >>> all the hotkeys.)
>>> Thanks.
>>> --Octavian
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "accessible" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to accessible@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> accessible+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/accessible?hl=en.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "accessible" group. >> To post to this group, send email to accessible@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> accessible+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/accessible?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "accessible" group. > To post to this group, send email to accessible@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > accessible+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/accessible?hl=en.
Well, I read that "Once you have ChromeVox installed, you will be navigating web content in Chrome with ChromeVox and everything else with your existing screen reader.". This is not very nice at all!
It is like saying that Google offers accessible services, but some of them need to be accessed only with a certain operating system which has very few users. For a screen reader user, the screen reader is the interface, it is like an operating system, with its features and key combinations that need to be learned, and it is not productive at all to need to switch the screen reader for using the web apps.
Anyway, I installed ChromeVox. I was disappointed from the start, because it installed it in my native language instead of English and I couldn't find how to change this. Then the installation guide said that it will let me download a setup program that I can run on my computer, but it installed it directly from the web, which I don't like at all also.
Then I am reading the ChromeVox documentation and I can say that its interface is horrible. For example, with JAWS I just need to press the letter "H" if I want to jump to the next heading, while with ChromeVox I need to press "Shift + Search + N + H" which under Windows means "Alt + Control + N + H". Just for jumping to the next heading! (which is a very much used feature in a screen reader).
Then I have tried the ChromeVox tutorial until Chrome became unresponsive. And I tried to close it, but it told that this program is not responsive so I needed to kill it.
The way it allows navigation on a page by different groups at different levels is not nice at all. I know that it is only alpha, but an alpha screen reader is not appropriate for be used in production with Google Sites. Google Sites is a pretty old service, and Google should offer accessibility for Windows users in the first place, because most computer users that use a screen reader are Windows users. And most computer users are desktop users and not only browser users.
Too bad that Google is interested only in the superficial computer users, so it is interested mostly in the accessibility for services like YouTube and netbook users and it is not very friendly for programmers.
And searching more about Chrome, I found the following comments in the last period, and they are not very encouraging:
HOW THE FUCK DO I UNINSTALL THIS SHIT IT NEVER SHUTS UP! AND I CAN'T FIND WHERE THE LITTLE TAB FOR IT WENT. ITS ANNOYING. I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A COOL APP BUT IT SUCKS
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan E. Benson" <ryan.ben...@gmail.com> To: <accessible@googlegroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2011 1:44 AM Subject: Re: Google sites accessibility issues
>I assumed as much. Again, sadly Google will probably advise you that > it works only on their setup "for now." That is Chrome and vox.
> -- > Ryan E. Benson
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 6:39 PM, Octavian Rasnita <orasn...@gmail.com> > wrote: >> Hi Ryan,
>> I was using JAWS because I am used to use it better than any other screen >> reader.
>> --Octavian
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan E. Benson" >> <ryan.ben...@gmail.com> >> To: <accessible@googlegroups.com> >> Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2011 1:29 AM >> Subject: Re: Google sites accessibility issues
>>> Octavian,
>>> I am absolutely speechless that you had to revert to IE 6 to use this >>> service. Various thread replies I have seen on this list by Google >>> employees, are boasting Chrome's so called greatness. While testing >>> withe Chrome, were you using JAWS still or did you use ChromeVox?
>>> -- >>> Ryan E. Benson
>>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Octavian Rasnita <orasn...@gmail.com> >>> wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>> I've seen that in the last period Google made some changes to Google >>>> Sites >>>> which unfortunately made this service less accessible than before.
>>>> The biggest accessibility issues I found, not exactly in the order >>>> below, >>>> were:
>>>> 1. The buttons for creating and editting web pages are not text-based >>>> anymore, but buttons which are not labeled, and some browsers allow >>>> pushing >>>> those buttons only by using the JAWS cursor, but without those labels, >>>> they >>>> can't be found with the JAWS cursor. >>>> It would be nice if those buttons will be text-based again, or labeled.
>>>> 2. Google Sites was not officially supporting IE6, but IE6 was able to >>>> access Google Sites better than other browsers which are less >>>> accessible. >>>> Google Chrome is a little accessible, but only a little. Firefox latest >>>> version is accessible, but on Google Sites frozes the computer and I've >>>> seen >>>> that it eats many hundreads of MB of memory and it is hard to start >>>> installing and uninstalling older and older versions of Firefox in >>>> order >>>> to >>>> test which one can be used better.
>>>> Until a few days ago I was able to include/upload images to Google >>>> Sites >>>> using IE6, but in the last few days this was not possible anymore. In >>>> some >>>> cases I found an error message printed on the page telling that the >>>> file >>>> is >>>> empty, even though I tried to upload images that were uploaded on >>>> Google >>>> Sites a few days ago without problems.
>>>> I was able to include images with Firefox 3.6, but very hard, because >>>> in >>>> some cases with Firefox 3.6 I wasn't able to add the text (because the >>>> textarea was reported as read-only), and because after clicking with >>>> the >>>> JAWS cursor on the "Include" menu, it was very hard to find the menu >>>> option >>>> "Images". I have tried to move the cursor up and down for a lot of >>>> times, >>>> but only after very many trials I found that menu item. Usually JAWS >>>> reported the same thing as the cursor was locked on a single line.
>>>> With IE6, after browsing for the image Google Sites prompted an "OK" >>>> button >>>> which needed to be just pressed, but now Google Sites doesn't prompt >>>> that >>>> button anymore and it should be found as a separate form somewhere at >>>> the >>>> end of the page, as a common form, not in application mode as before.
>>>> And what's worst, sometimes that "Ok" button that should be used for >>>> confirming the image inclusion appears as disabled, so it can't be used >>>> who >>>> knows for what reasons, so the single solution is to refresh the page >>>> and >>>> do >>>> the inclusion again, or even to close the browser and try again.
>>>> Starting for a few days, IE6 doesn't show that OK button at all after >>>> including an image, so it is not included, and pressing the Save button >>>> either don't do anything, or it makes JAWS speak an error message that >>>> something is wrong, but I couldn't understand that very short message >>>> very >>>> well, and I couldn't find it printed somewhere on the page in order to >>>> be >>>> able to read it better word by word, but it was something about a thing >>>> which is not valid or something like that.
>>>> 3. The key combination Control+S for saving the currently eddited page >>>> sometimes works but sometimes not, and it just makes a click as when >>>> pressing a disabled button. Sometimes nothing happends even if I press >>>> the >>>> Save button with the JAWS cursor, and in those cases usually nothing >>>> happends even if I press the Cancel button and I need to close the >>>> window >>>> and open it again.
>>>> 4. The menus that should be used for accessing more actions, like >>>> deleting >>>> the current page or for including an image are very hard accessible, >>>> only >>>> by >>>> using the JAWS cursor, and this was better accessible in IE6 which now >>>> can't >>>> be used for including images as before, because in Firefox, especially >>>> in >>>> the newest versions, JAWS cursor can find very few elements on the >>>> screen >>>> and I've seen that after an Insert+Escape for refreshing the buffer, >>>> instead >>>> of seeing the screen better, JAWS was able to read just the title bar >>>> of >>>> Firefox window. And with Chrome is even worse. >>>> And after choosing an action, for example for deleting the current >>>> page, >>>> the >>>> dialog that request a confirmation for deleting it or not, is also hard >>>> to >>>> access with the JAWS cursor in order to press the "Delete" button. >>>> (At least it is good that there is the hotkey Shift+3 for deleting the >>>> current page. It would be very good if there would be more hotkeys for >>>> more >>>> actions, including for confirmation dialogs, and have somewhere a list >>>> of >>>> all the hotkeys.)
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> --Octavian
>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups >>>> "accessible" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to accessible@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> accessible+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/accessible?hl=en.
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups >>> "accessible" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to accessible@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> accessible+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at
One just should not have to learn a new screenreader to use web sites, can you imagine if you have to use different browsers and screenreaders for each site, it would be ridiculous. Also, I have in fact now given most google stuff the big E. My brain cannot cope its all too much. I use nvda and have two versions of Firefox and one of IE and this is as far as I feel I should need to go. Most web sites will work with one of these and its ridiculous to suggest that google should be a special case. Brian
bgli...@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- bria...@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan E. Benson" <ryan.ben...@gmail.com> To: <accessible@googlegroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 11:29 PM Subject: Re: Google sites accessibility issues
> Octavian,
> I am absolutely speechless that you had to revert to IE 6 to use this > service. Various thread replies I have seen on this list by Google > employees, are boasting Chrome's so called greatness. While testing > withe Chrome, were you using JAWS still or did you use ChromeVox?
> -- > Ryan E. Benson
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Octavian Rasnita <orasn...@gmail.com> > wrote: >> Hello,
>> I've seen that in the last period Google made some changes to Google >> Sites >> which unfortunately made this service less accessible than before.
>> The biggest accessibility issues I found, not exactly in the order below, >> were:
>> 1. The buttons for creating and editting web pages are not text-based >> anymore, but buttons which are not labeled, and some browsers allow >> pushing >> those buttons only by using the JAWS cursor, but without those labels, >> they >> can't be found with the JAWS cursor. >> It would be nice if those buttons will be text-based again, or labeled.
>> 2. Google Sites was not officially supporting IE6, but IE6 was able to >> access Google Sites better than other browsers which are less accessible. >> Google Chrome is a little accessible, but only a little. Firefox latest >> version is accessible, but on Google Sites frozes the computer and I've >> seen >> that it eats many hundreads of MB of memory and it is hard to start >> installing and uninstalling older and older versions of Firefox in order >> to >> test which one can be used better.
>> Until a few days ago I was able to include/upload images to Google Sites >> using IE6, but in the last few days this was not possible anymore. In >> some >> cases I found an error message printed on the page telling that the file >> is >> empty, even though I tried to upload images that were uploaded on Google >> Sites a few days ago without problems.
>> I was able to include images with Firefox 3.6, but very hard, because in >> some cases with Firefox 3.6 I wasn't able to add the text (because the >> textarea was reported as read-only), and because after clicking with the >> JAWS cursor on the "Include" menu, it was very hard to find the menu >> option >> "Images". I have tried to move the cursor up and down for a lot of times, >> but only after very many trials I found that menu item. Usually JAWS >> reported the same thing as the cursor was locked on a single line.
>> With IE6, after browsing for the image Google Sites prompted an "OK" >> button >> which needed to be just pressed, but now Google Sites doesn't prompt that >> button anymore and it should be found as a separate form somewhere at the >> end of the page, as a common form, not in application mode as before.
>> And what's worst, sometimes that "Ok" button that should be used for >> confirming the image inclusion appears as disabled, so it can't be used >> who >> knows for what reasons, so the single solution is to refresh the page and >> do >> the inclusion again, or even to close the browser and try again.
>> Starting for a few days, IE6 doesn't show that OK button at all after >> including an image, so it is not included, and pressing the Save button >> either don't do anything, or it makes JAWS speak an error message that >> something is wrong, but I couldn't understand that very short message >> very >> well, and I couldn't find it printed somewhere on the page in order to be >> able to read it better word by word, but it was something about a thing >> which is not valid or something like that.
>> 3. The key combination Control+S for saving the currently eddited page >> sometimes works but sometimes not, and it just makes a click as when >> pressing a disabled button. Sometimes nothing happends even if I press >> the >> Save button with the JAWS cursor, and in those cases usually nothing >> happends even if I press the Cancel button and I need to close the window >> and open it again.
>> 4. The menus that should be used for accessing more actions, like >> deleting >> the current page or for including an image are very hard accessible, only >> by >> using the JAWS cursor, and this was better accessible in IE6 which now >> can't >> be used for including images as before, because in Firefox, especially in >> the newest versions, JAWS cursor can find very few elements on the screen >> and I've seen that after an Insert+Escape for refreshing the buffer, >> instead >> of seeing the screen better, JAWS was able to read just the title bar of >> Firefox window. And with Chrome is even worse. >> And after choosing an action, for example for deleting the current page, >> the >> dialog that request a confirmation for deleting it or not, is also hard >> to >> access with the JAWS cursor in order to press the "Delete" button. >> (At least it is good that there is the hotkey Shift+3 for deleting the >> current page. It would be very good if there would be more hotkeys for >> more >> actions, including for confirmation dialogs, and have somewhere a list of >> all the hotkeys.)
>> Thanks.
>> --Octavian
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "accessible" group. >> To post to this group, send email to accessible@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> accessible+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/accessible?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "accessible" group. > To post to this group, send email to accessible@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > accessible+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/accessible?hl=en.
Google is not a special case. Google Sites has accessibility problems with all screen readers, including Chrome. The special thing is that ChromeVox has accessibility problem with all the sites including Google Sites. :-)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian's Mail list account BY" <bgli...@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <accessible@googlegroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2011 10:51 AM Subject: Re: Google sites accessibility issues
> One just should not have to learn a new screenreader to use web sites, can > you imagine if you have to use different browsers and screenreaders for > each site, it would be ridiculous. Also, I have in fact now given most > google stuff the big E. My brain cannot cope its all too much. > I use nvda and have two versions of Firefox and one of IE and this is as > far as I feel I should need to go. Most web sites will work with one of > these and its ridiculous to suggest that google should be a special case. > Brian
> bgli...@blueyonder.co.uk > Sent via blueyonder. > Please address personal email to:- > bria...@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' > in the display name field. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ryan E. Benson" <ryan.ben...@gmail.com> > To: <accessible@googlegroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 11:29 PM > Subject: Re: Google sites accessibility issues
>> Octavian,
>> I am absolutely speechless that you had to revert to IE 6 to use this >> service. Various thread replies I have seen on this list by Google >> employees, are boasting Chrome's so called greatness. While testing >> withe Chrome, were you using JAWS still or did you use ChromeVox?
>> -- >> Ryan E. Benson
>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Octavian Rasnita <orasn...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> Hello,
>>> I've seen that in the last period Google made some changes to Google >>> Sites >>> which unfortunately made this service less accessible than before.
>>> The biggest accessibility issues I found, not exactly in the order >>> below, >>> were:
>>> 1. The buttons for creating and editting web pages are not text-based >>> anymore, but buttons which are not labeled, and some browsers allow >>> pushing >>> those buttons only by using the JAWS cursor, but without those labels, >>> they >>> can't be found with the JAWS cursor. >>> It would be nice if those buttons will be text-based again, or labeled.
>>> 2. Google Sites was not officially supporting IE6, but IE6 was able to >>> access Google Sites better than other browsers which are less >>> accessible. >>> Google Chrome is a little accessible, but only a little. Firefox latest >>> version is accessible, but on Google Sites frozes the computer and I've >>> seen >>> that it eats many hundreads of MB of memory and it is hard to start >>> installing and uninstalling older and older versions of Firefox in order >>> to >>> test which one can be used better.
>>> Until a few days ago I was able to include/upload images to Google Sites >>> using IE6, but in the last few days this was not possible anymore. In >>> some >>> cases I found an error message printed on the page telling that the file >>> is >>> empty, even though I tried to upload images that were uploaded on Google >>> Sites a few days ago without problems.
>>> I was able to include images with Firefox 3.6, but very hard, because in >>> some cases with Firefox 3.6 I wasn't able to add the text (because the >>> textarea was reported as read-only), and because after clicking with the >>> JAWS cursor on the "Include" menu, it was very hard to find the menu >>> option >>> "Images". I have tried to move the cursor up and down for a lot of >>> times, >>> but only after very many trials I found that menu item. Usually JAWS >>> reported the same thing as the cursor was locked on a single line.
>>> With IE6, after browsing for the image Google Sites prompted an "OK" >>> button >>> which needed to be just pressed, but now Google Sites doesn't prompt >>> that >>> button anymore and it should be found as a separate form somewhere at >>> the >>> end of the page, as a common form, not in application mode as before.
>>> And what's worst, sometimes that "Ok" button that should be used for >>> confirming the image inclusion appears as disabled, so it can't be used >>> who >>> knows for what reasons, so the single solution is to refresh the page >>> and do >>> the inclusion again, or even to close the browser and try again.
>>> Starting for a few days, IE6 doesn't show that OK button at all after >>> including an image, so it is not included, and pressing the Save button >>> either don't do anything, or it makes JAWS speak an error message that >>> something is wrong, but I couldn't understand that very short message >>> very >>> well, and I couldn't find it printed somewhere on the page in order to >>> be >>> able to read it better word by word, but it was something about a thing >>> which is not valid or something like that.
>>> 3. The key combination Control+S for saving the currently eddited page >>> sometimes works but sometimes not, and it just makes a click as when >>> pressing a disabled button. Sometimes nothing happends even if I press >>> the >>> Save button with the JAWS cursor, and in those cases usually nothing >>> happends even if I press the Cancel button and I need to close the >>> window >>> and open it again.
>>> 4. The menus that should be used for accessing more actions, like >>> deleting >>> the current page or for including an image are very hard accessible, >>> only by >>> using the JAWS cursor, and this was better accessible in IE6 which now >>> can't >>> be used for including images as before, because in Firefox, especially >>> in >>> the newest versions, JAWS cursor can find very few elements on the >>> screen >>> and I've seen that after an Insert+Escape for refreshing the buffer, >>> instead >>> of seeing the screen better, JAWS was able to read just the title bar of >>> Firefox window. And with Chrome is even worse. >>> And after choosing an action, for example for deleting the current page, >>> the >>> dialog that request a confirmation for deleting it or not, is also hard >>> to >>> access with the JAWS cursor in order to press the "Delete" button. >>> (At least it is good that there is the hotkey Shift+3 for deleting the >>> current page. It would be very good if there would be more hotkeys for >>> more >>> actions, including for confirmation dialogs, and have somewhere a list >>> of >>> all the hotkeys.)
>>> Thanks.
>>> --Octavian
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups >>> "accessible" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to accessible@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> accessible+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/accessible?hl=en.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "accessible" group. >> To post to this group, send email to accessible@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> accessible+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/accessible?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "accessible" group. > To post to this group, send email to accessible@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > accessible+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/accessible?hl=en.
i have been playing this it much more lately and i am starting to find some light at the end of the tunnel i actualy like useing docs with it a lot i find it kind of fun. but browsing with it is just to hard still. i get better with it every time i pick up my chrom book but it is quite hard. the point of this list is for people to say what is not working and what is so that the next vertion is better and better
On 12/2/11, Octavian Rasnita <orasn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, I read that "Once you have ChromeVox installed, you will be navigating > web content in Chrome with ChromeVox and everything else with your existing > screen reader.". This is not very nice at all!
> It is like saying that Google offers accessible services, but some of them > need to be accessed only with a certain operating system which has very few > users. For a screen reader user, the screen reader is the interface, it is > like an operating system, with its features and key combinations that need > to be learned, and it is not productive at all to need to switch the screen > reader for using the web apps.
> Anyway, I installed ChromeVox. I was disappointed from the start, because it > installed it in my native language instead of English and I couldn't find > how to change this. > Then the installation guide said that it will let me download a setup > program that I can run on my computer, but it installed it directly from the > web, which I don't like at all also.
> Then I am reading the ChromeVox documentation and I can say that its > interface is horrible. For example, with JAWS I just need to press the > letter "H" if I want to jump to the next heading, while with ChromeVox I > need to press "Shift + Search + N + H" which under Windows means "Alt + > Control + N + H". Just for jumping to the next heading! (which is a very > much used feature in a screen reader).
> Then I have tried the ChromeVox tutorial until Chrome became unresponsive. > And I tried to close it, but it told that this program is not responsive so > I needed to kill it.
> The way it allows navigation on a page by different groups at different > levels is not nice at all. I know that it is only alpha, but an alpha screen > reader is not appropriate for be used in production with Google Sites. > Google Sites is a pretty old service, and Google should offer accessibility > for Windows users in the first place, because most computer users that use a > screen reader are Windows users. And most computer users are desktop users > and not only browser users.
> Too bad that Google is interested only in the superficial computer users, so > it is interested mostly in the accessibility for services like YouTube and > netbook users and it is not very friendly for programmers.
> And searching more about Chrome, I found the following comments in the > last period, and they are not very encouraging:
> Comment by > bayoumit...@hotmail.com, > Nov 6, 2011
> how do i uninstall chromevox ?
> Comment by > callmeyo...@yahoo.com, > Nov 6, 2011
> HOW THE FUCK DO I UNINSTALL THIS SHIT IT NEVER SHUTS UP! AND I CAN'T FIND > WHERE THE LITTLE TAB FOR IT WENT. ITS ANNOYING. I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A COOL > APP > BUT IT SUCKS
> Comment by > doodlebu...@gmail.com, > Nov 20, 2011
> I totally agree with the above sentiments...minus the language, of > course!!!!
> Comment by > sean2sus...@gmail.com, > Nov 22, 2011
> I would also like to know how to uninstall it. please help.
> Comment by > peanutto...@gmail.com, > Nov 23, 2011
> How do i turn ChromeVox > ? > off, or delete this program.
> --Octavian
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ryan E. Benson" <ryan.ben...@gmail.com> > To: <accessible@googlegroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2011 1:44 AM > Subject: Re: Google sites accessibility issues
>>I assumed as much. Again, sadly Google will probably advise you that >> it works only on their setup "for now." That is Chrome and vox.
>> -- >> Ryan E. Benson
>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 6:39 PM, Octavian Rasnita <orasn...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> Hi Ryan,
>>> I was using JAWS because I am used to use it better than any other screen >>> reader.
>>> --Octavian
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan E. Benson" >>> <ryan.ben...@gmail.com> >>> To: <accessible@googlegroups.com> >>> Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2011 1:29 AM >>> Subject: Re: Google sites accessibility issues
>>>> Octavian,
>>>> I am absolutely speechless that you had to revert to IE 6 to use this >>>> service. Various thread replies I have seen on this list by Google >>>> employees, are boasting Chrome's so called greatness. While testing >>>> withe Chrome, were you using JAWS still or did you use ChromeVox?
>>>> -- >>>> Ryan E. Benson
>>>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Octavian Rasnita <orasn...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> I've seen that in the last period Google made some changes to Google >>>>> Sites >>>>> which unfortunately made this service less accessible than before.
>>>>> The biggest accessibility issues I found, not exactly in the order >>>>> below, >>>>> were:
>>>>> 1. The buttons for creating and editting web pages are not text-based >>>>> anymore, but buttons which are not labeled, and some browsers allow >>>>> pushing >>>>> those buttons only by using the JAWS cursor, but without those labels, >>>>> they >>>>> can't be found with the JAWS cursor. >>>>> It would be nice if those buttons will be text-based again, or labeled.
>>>>> 2. Google Sites was not officially supporting IE6, but IE6 was able to >>>>> access Google Sites better than other browsers which are less >>>>> accessible. >>>>> Google Chrome is a little accessible, but only a little. Firefox latest >>>>> version is accessible, but on Google Sites frozes the computer and I've >>>>> seen >>>>> that it eats many hundreads of MB of memory and it is hard to start >>>>> installing and uninstalling older and older versions of Firefox in >>>>> order >>>>> to >>>>> test which one can be used better.
>>>>> Until a few days ago I was able to include/upload images to Google >>>>> Sites >>>>> using IE6, but in the last few days this was not possible anymore. In >>>>> some >>>>> cases I found an error message printed on the page telling that the >>>>> file >>>>> is >>>>> empty, even though I tried to upload images that were uploaded on >>>>> Google >>>>> Sites a few days ago without problems.
>>>>> I was able to include images with Firefox 3.6, but very hard, because >>>>> in >>>>> some cases with Firefox 3.6 I wasn't able to add the text (because the >>>>> textarea was reported as read-only), and because after clicking with >>>>> the >>>>> JAWS cursor on the "Include" menu, it was very hard to find the menu >>>>> option >>>>> "Images". I have tried to move the cursor up and down for a lot of >>>>> times, >>>>> but only after very many trials I found that menu item. Usually JAWS >>>>> reported the same thing as the cursor was locked on a single line.
>>>>> With IE6, after browsing for the image Google Sites prompted an "OK" >>>>> button >>>>> which needed to be just pressed, but now Google Sites doesn't prompt >>>>> that >>>>> button anymore and it should be found as a separate form somewhere at >>>>> the >>>>> end of the page, as a common form, not in application mode as before.
>>>>> And what's worst, sometimes that "Ok" button that should be used for >>>>> confirming the image inclusion appears as disabled, so it can't be used >>>>> who >>>>> knows for what reasons, so the single solution is to refresh the page >>>>> and >>>>> do >>>>> the inclusion again, or even to close the browser and try again.
>>>>> Starting for a few days, IE6 doesn't show that OK button at all after >>>>> including an image, so it is not included, and pressing the Save button >>>>> either don't do anything, or it makes JAWS speak an error message that >>>>> something is wrong, but I couldn't understand that very short message >>>>> very >>>>> well, and I couldn't find it printed somewhere on the page in order to >>>>> be >>>>> able to read it better word by word, but it was something about a thing >>>>> which is not valid or something like that.
>>>>> 3. The key combination Control+S for saving the currently eddited page >>>>> sometimes works but sometimes not, and it just makes a click as when >>>>> pressing a disabled button. Sometimes nothing happends even if I press >>>>> the >>>>> Save button with the JAWS cursor, and in those cases usually nothing >>>>> happends even if I press the Cancel button and I need to close the >>>>> window >>>>> and open it again.
>>>>> 4. The menus that should be used for accessing more actions, like >>>>> deleting >>>>> the current page or for including an image are very hard accessible, >>>>> only >>>>> by >>>>> using the JAWS cursor, and this was better accessible in IE6 which now >>>>> can't >>>>> be used for including images as before, because in Firefox, especially >>>>> in >>>>> the newest versions, JAWS cursor can find very few elements on the >>>>> screen >>>>> and I've seen that after an Insert+Escape for refreshing the buffer, >>>>> instead >>>>> of seeing the screen better, JAWS was able to read just the title bar >>>>> of >>>>> Firefox window. And with Chrome is even worse. >>>>> And after choosing an action, for example for deleting the current >>>>> page, >>>>> the >>>>> dialog that request a confirmation for deleting it or not, is also hard >>>>> to >>>>> access with the JAWS cursor in order to press the "Delete" button. >>>>> (At least it is good that there is the hotkey Shift+3 for deleting the >>>>> current page. It would be very good if there would be more hotkeys for >>>>> more >>>>> actions, including for confirmation dialogs, and have somewhere a list
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Octavian Rasnita <orasn...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello,
> I've seen that in the last period Google made some changes to Google Sites > which unfortunately made this service less accessible than before.
> The biggest accessibility issues I found, not exactly in the order below, > were:
> 1. The buttons for creating and editting web pages are not text-based > anymore, but buttons which are not labeled, and some browsers allow pushing > those buttons only by using the JAWS cursor, but without those labels, they > can't be found with the JAWS cursor. > It would be nice if those buttons will be text-based again, or labeled.
There is aria-label on both the buttons and there "e" for edit and "c" for create are hotkeys
> 2. Google Sites was not officially supporting IE6, but IE6 was able to > access Google Sites better than other browsers which are less accessible. > Google Chrome is a little accessible, but only a little. Firefox latest > version is accessible, but on Google Sites frozes the computer and I've > seen that it eats many hundreads of MB of memory and it is hard to start > installing and uninstalling older and older versions of Firefox in order to > test which one can be used better.
> Until a few days ago I was able to include/upload images to Google Sites > using IE6, but in the last few days this was not possible anymore. In some > cases I found an error message printed on the page telling that the file is > empty, even though I tried to upload images that were uploaded on Google > Sites a few days ago without problems.
> I was able to include images with Firefox 3.6, but very hard, because in > some cases with Firefox 3.6 I wasn't able to add the text (because the > textarea was reported as read-only), and because after clicking with the > JAWS cursor on the "Include" menu, it was very hard to find the menu option > "Images". I have tried to move the cursor up and down for a lot of times, > but only after very many trials I found that menu item. Usually JAWS > reported the same thing as the cursor was locked on a single line.
> With IE6, after browsing for the image Google Sites prompted an "OK" > button which needed to be just pressed, but now Google Sites doesn't prompt > that button anymore and it should be found as a separate form somewhere at > the end of the page, as a common form, not in application mode as before.
> And what's worst, sometimes that "Ok" button that should be used for > confirming the image inclusion appears as disabled, so it can't be used who > knows for what reasons, so the single solution is to refresh the page and > do the inclusion again, or even to close the browser and try again.
> Starting for a few days, IE6 doesn't show that OK button at all after > including an image, so it is not included, and pressing the Save button > either don't do anything, or it makes JAWS speak an error message that > something is wrong, but I couldn't understand that very short message very > well, and I couldn't find it printed somewhere on the page in order to be > able to read it better word by word, but it was something about a thing > which is not valid or something like that
Yes, as you said Sites does not support IE6, so please do upgrade the browser. I tried navigating the "Insert" menu using keyboard on Firefox 3.6 and it works fine. Firefox memory issue could be just because of a bad installation, please try to re-install or upgrade because Sites doesn't keep any connections open, there should be no memory consumption when using Sites. I feel you will see memory issues when accessing anything on the internet.
> 3. The key combination Control+S for saving the currently eddited page > sometimes works but sometimes not, and it just makes a click as when > pressing a disabled button. Sometimes nothing happends even if I press the > Save button with the JAWS cursor, and in those cases usually nothing > happends even if I press the Cancel button and I need to close the window > and open it again.
> 4. The menus that should be used for accessing more actions, like deleting > the current page or for including an image are very hard accessible, only > by using the JAWS cursor, and this was better accessible in IE6 which now > can't be used for including images as before, because in Firefox, > especially in the newest versions, JAWS cursor can find very few elements > on the screen and I've seen that after an Insert+Escape for refreshing the > buffer, instead of seeing the screen better, JAWS was able to read just the > title bar of Firefox window. And with Chrome is even worse. > And after choosing an action, for example for deleting the current page, > the dialog that request a confirmation for deleting it or not, is also hard > to access with the JAWS cursor in order to press the "Delete" button. > (At least it is good that there is the hotkey Shift+3 for deleting the > current page. It would be very good if there would be more hotkeys for more > actions, including for confirmation dialogs, and have somewhere a list of > all the hotkeys.)
There are lot of hotkeys :). You should enter "?" and it will give all hotkeys. When in edit mode, there are different set of hotkeys.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "accessible" group. > To post to this group, send email to accessible@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to accessible+unsubscribe@** > googlegroups.com <accessible%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** > group/accessible?hl=en <http://groups.google.com/group/accessible?hl=en>.
I would point out that the other browsers in question were comparable with IE6. What I mean by that, or rather what I'm curious about is whether IE 8+, firefox 7+, and so forth, were tried?
Teddy, I hear you on the memory issues with FF, and I can't blame you at all for not wanting to try different versions, but it might be elucidating to do so just for a test?
Also, how about IE9? What version of jaws are you using? Sorry fi I missed that before.
-----Original Message----- From: accessible@googlegroups.com [mailto:accessible@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ryan E. Benson Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 6:29 PM To: accessible@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Google sites accessibility issues
Octavian,
I am absolutely speechless that you had to revert to IE 6 to use this service. Various thread replies I have seen on this list by Google employees, are boasting Chrome's so called greatness. While testing withe Chrome, were you using JAWS still or did you use ChromeVox?
-- Ryan E. Benson
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Octavian Rasnita <orasn...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello,
> I've seen that in the last period Google made some changes to Google Sites > which unfortunately made this service less accessible than before.
> The biggest accessibility issues I found, not exactly in the order below, > were:
> 1. The buttons for creating and editting web pages are not text-based > anymore, but buttons which are not labeled, and some browsers allow pushing > those buttons only by using the JAWS cursor, but without those labels, they > can't be found with the JAWS cursor. > It would be nice if those buttons will be text-based again, or labeled.
> 2. Google Sites was not officially supporting IE6, but IE6 was able to > access Google Sites better than other browsers which are less accessible. > Google Chrome is a little accessible, but only a little. Firefox latest > version is accessible, but on Google Sites frozes the computer and I've seen > that it eats many hundreads of MB of memory and it is hard to start > installing and uninstalling older and older versions of Firefox in order to > test which one can be used better.
> Until a few days ago I was able to include/upload images to Google Sites > using IE6, but in the last few days this was not possible anymore. In some > cases I found an error message printed on the page telling that the file is > empty, even though I tried to upload images that were uploaded on Google > Sites a few days ago without problems.
> I was able to include images with Firefox 3.6, but very hard, because in > some cases with Firefox 3.6 I wasn't able to add the text (because the > textarea was reported as read-only), and because after clicking with the > JAWS cursor on the "Include" menu, it was very hard to find the menu option > "Images". I have tried to move the cursor up and down for a lot of times, > but only after very many trials I found that menu item. Usually JAWS > reported the same thing as the cursor was locked on a single line.
> With IE6, after browsing for the image Google Sites prompted an "OK" button > which needed to be just pressed, but now Google Sites doesn't prompt that > button anymore and it should be found as a separate form somewhere at the > end of the page, as a common form, not in application mode as before.
> And what's worst, sometimes that "Ok" button that should be used for > confirming the image inclusion appears as disabled, so it can't be used who > knows for what reasons, so the single solution is to refresh the page and do > the inclusion again, or even to close the browser and try again.
> Starting for a few days, IE6 doesn't show that OK button at all after > including an image, so it is not included, and pressing the Save button > either don't do anything, or it makes JAWS speak an error message that > something is wrong, but I couldn't understand that very short message very > well, and I couldn't find it printed somewhere on the page in order to be > able to read it better word by word, but it was something about a thing > which is not valid or something like that.
> 3. The key combination Control+S for saving the currently eddited page > sometimes works but sometimes not, and it just makes a click as when > pressing a disabled button. Sometimes nothing happends even if I press the > Save button with the JAWS cursor, and in those cases usually nothing > happends even if I press the Cancel button and I need to close the window > and open it again.
> 4. The menus that should be used for accessing more actions, like deleting > the current page or for including an image are very hard accessible, only by > using the JAWS cursor, and this was better accessible in IE6 which now can't > be used for including images as before, because in Firefox, especially in > the newest versions, JAWS cursor can find very few elements on the screen > and I've seen that after an Insert+Escape for refreshing the buffer, instead > of seeing the screen better, JAWS was able to read just the title bar of > Firefox window. And with Chrome is even worse. > And after choosing an action, for example for deleting the current page, the > dialog that request a confirmation for deleting it or not, is also hard to > access with the JAWS cursor in order to press the "Delete" button. > (At least it is good that there is the hotkey Shift+3 for deleting the > current page. It would be very good if there would be more hotkeys for more > actions, including for confirmation dialogs, and have somewhere a list of > all the hotkeys.)
> Thanks.
> --Octavian
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "accessible" group. > To post to this group, send email to accessible@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > accessible+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/accessible?hl=en.
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----- Original Message ----- From: Abhishek Surana To: accessible@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2011 12:59 AM Subject: Re: Google sites accessibility issues
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Octavian Rasnita <orasn...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
I've seen that in the last period Google made some changes to Google Sites which unfortunately made this service less accessible than before.
The biggest accessibility issues I found, not exactly in the order below, were:
1. The buttons for creating and editting web pages are not text-based anymore, but buttons which are not labeled, and some browsers allow pushing those buttons only by using the JAWS cursor, but without those labels, they can't be found with the JAWS cursor. It would be nice if those buttons will be text-based again, or labeled.
There is aria-label on both the buttons and there "e" for edit and "c" for create are hotkeys
2. Google Sites was not officially supporting IE6, but IE6 was able to access Google Sites better than other browsers which are less accessible. Google Chrome is a little accessible, but only a little. Firefox latest version is accessible, but on Google Sites frozes the computer and I've seen that it eats many hundreads of MB of memory and it is hard to start installing and uninstalling older and older versions of Firefox in order to test which one can be used better.
Until a few days ago I was able to include/upload images to Google Sites using IE6, but in the last few days this was not possible anymore. In some cases I found an error message printed on the page telling that the file is empty, even though I tried to upload images that were uploaded on Google Sites a few days ago without problems.
I was able to include images with Firefox 3.6, but very hard, because in some cases with Firefox 3.6 I wasn't able to add the text (because the textarea was reported as read-only), and because after clicking with the JAWS cursor on the "Include" menu, it was very hard to find the menu option "Images". I have tried to move the cursor up and down for a lot of times, but only after very many trials I found that menu item. Usually JAWS reported the same thing as the cursor was locked on a single line.
With IE6, after browsing for the image Google Sites prompted an "OK" button which needed to be just pressed, but now Google Sites doesn't prompt that button anymore and it should be found as a separate form somewhere at the end of the page, as a common form, not in application mode as before.
And what's worst, sometimes that "Ok" button that should be used for confirming the image inclusion appears as disabled, so it can't be used who knows for what reasons, so the single solution is to refresh the page and do the inclusion again, or even to close the browser and try again.
Starting for a few days, IE6 doesn't show that OK button at all after including an image, so it is not included, and pressing the Save button either don't do anything, or it makes JAWS speak an error message that something is wrong, but I couldn't understand that very short message very well, and I couldn't find it printed somewhere on the page in order to be able to read it better word by word, but it was something about a thing which is not valid or something like that
Yes, as you said Sites does not support IE6, so please do upgrade the browser. I tried navigating the "Insert" menu using keyboard on Firefox 3.6 and it works fine. Firefox memory issue could be just because of a bad installation, please try to re-install or upgrade because Sites doesn't keep any connections open, there should be no memory consumption when using Sites. I feel you will see memory issues when accessing anything on the internet.
.
3. The key combination Control+S for saving the currently eddited page sometimes works but sometimes not, and it just makes a click as when pressing a disabled button. Sometimes nothing happends even if I press the Save button with the JAWS cursor, and in those cases usually nothing happends even if I press the Cancel button and I need to close the window and open it again.
4. The menus that should be used for accessing more actions, like deleting the current page or for including an image are very hard accessible, only by using the JAWS cursor, and this was better accessible in IE6 which now can't be used for including images as before, because in Firefox, especially in the newest versions, JAWS cursor can find very few elements on the screen and I've seen that after an Insert+Escape for refreshing the buffer, instead of seeing the screen better, JAWS was able to read just the title bar of Firefox window. And with Chrome is even worse. And after choosing an action, for example for deleting the current page, the dialog that request a confirmation for deleting it or not, is also hard to access with the JAWS cursor in order to press the "Delete" button. (At least it is good that there is the hotkey Shift+3 for deleting the current page. It would be very good if there would be more hotkeys for more actions, including for confirmation dialogs, and have somewhere a list of all the hotkeys.)
There are lot of hotkeys :). You should enter "?" and it will give all hotkeys. When in edit mode, there are different set of hotkeys.
Hope this helps.
Thanks.
--Octavian
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I have tried only Firefox 8, Firefox 3.6, IE6 and latest Chrome. If I had free time, of course I would have tried more versions...
Firefox 8 consumes more than 400 MB and not the memory was the problem, but the fact that it reacted very very slow, so the computer appear as frozen for 10 - 20 seconds after each hotkey pressed.
Chrome especially, but Firefox also, had problems allowing the JAWS cursor to read the entire window, to be at least able to click on the things I can see on the page. Sometimes the entire page is visible, sometimes only some parts, and sometimes only the title bar.
I am planning to install IE9, but with IE there is a bigger problem, because I cannot test IE7, 8 or 9, and if I won't find them accessible enough to be able to go back to IE6 because it is not possible. And of course, I don't care only about the accessibility of Google services, but of other sites also.
But if you have tried IE8 and 9, which of them do you recommend? For JAWS 13, is IE9 at least as accessible as IE8?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sina Bahram" <sbah...@nc.rr.com> To: <accessible@googlegroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2011 1:43 AM Subject: RE: Google sites accessibility issues
>I would point out that the other browsers in question were comparable with IE6. What I mean by that, or rather what I'm curious > about is whether IE 8+, firefox 7+, and so forth, were tried?
> Teddy, I hear you on the memory issues with FF, and I can't blame you at all for not wanting to try different versions, but it might > be elucidating to do so just for a test?
> Also, how about IE9? What version of jaws are you using? Sorry fi I missed that before.
> -----Original Message----- > From: accessible@googlegroups.com [mailto:accessible@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ryan E. Benson > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 6:29 PM > To: accessible@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Google sites accessibility issues
> Octavian,
> I am absolutely speechless that you had to revert to IE 6 to use this > service. Various thread replies I have seen on this list by Google > employees, are boasting Chrome's so called greatness. While testing > withe Chrome, were you using JAWS still or did you use ChromeVox?
> -- > Ryan E. Benson
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Octavian Rasnita <orasn...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Hello,
>> I've seen that in the last period Google made some changes to Google Sites >> which unfortunately made this service less accessible than before.
>> The biggest accessibility issues I found, not exactly in the order below, >> were:
>> 1. The buttons for creating and editting web pages are not text-based >> anymore, but buttons which are not labeled, and some browsers allow pushing >> those buttons only by using the JAWS cursor, but without those labels, they >> can't be found with the JAWS cursor. >> It would be nice if those buttons will be text-based again, or labeled.
>> 2. Google Sites was not officially supporting IE6, but IE6 was able to >> access Google Sites better than other browsers which are less accessible. >> Google Chrome is a little accessible, but only a little. Firefox latest >> version is accessible, but on Google Sites frozes the computer and I've seen >> that it eats many hundreads of MB of memory and it is hard to start >> installing and uninstalling older and older versions of Firefox in order to >> test which one can be used better.
>> Until a few days ago I was able to include/upload images to Google Sites >> using IE6, but in the last few days this was not possible anymore. In some >> cases I found an error message printed on the page telling that the file is >> empty, even though I tried to upload images that were uploaded on Google >> Sites a few days ago without problems.
>> I was able to include images with Firefox 3.6, but very hard, because in >> some cases with Firefox 3.6 I wasn't able to add the text (because the >> textarea was reported as read-only), and because after clicking with the >> JAWS cursor on the "Include" menu, it was very hard to find the menu option >> "Images". I have tried to move the cursor up and down for a lot of times, >> but only after very many trials I found that menu item. Usually JAWS >> reported the same thing as the cursor was locked on a single line.
>> With IE6, after browsing for the image Google Sites prompted an "OK" button >> which needed to be just pressed, but now Google Sites doesn't prompt that >> button anymore and it should be found as a separate form somewhere at the >> end of the page, as a common form, not in application mode as before.
>> And what's worst, sometimes that "Ok" button that should be used for >> confirming the image inclusion appears as disabled, so it can't be used who >> knows for what reasons, so the single solution is to refresh the page and do >> the inclusion again, or even to close the browser and try again.
>> Starting for a few days, IE6 doesn't show that OK button at all after >> including an image, so it is not included, and pressing the Save button >> either don't do anything, or it makes JAWS speak an error message that >> something is wrong, but I couldn't understand that very short message very >> well, and I couldn't find it printed somewhere on the page in order to be >> able to read it better word by word, but it was something about a thing >> which is not valid or something like that.
>> 3. The key combination Control+S for saving the currently eddited page >> sometimes works but sometimes not, and it just makes a click as when >> pressing a disabled button. Sometimes nothing happends even if I press the >> Save button with the JAWS cursor, and in those cases usually nothing >> happends even if I press the Cancel button and I need to close the window >> and open it again.
>> 4. The menus that should be used for accessing more actions, like deleting >> the current page or for including an image are very hard accessible, only by >> using the JAWS cursor, and this was better accessible in IE6 which now can't >> be used for including images as before, because in Firefox, especially in >> the newest versions, JAWS cursor can find very few elements on the screen >> and I've seen that after an Insert+Escape for refreshing the buffer, instead >> of seeing the screen better, JAWS was able to read just the title bar of >> Firefox window. And with Chrome is even worse. >> And after choosing an action, for example for deleting the current page, the >> dialog that request a confirmation for deleting it or not, is also hard to >> access with the JAWS cursor in order to press the "Delete" button. >> (At least it is good that there is the hotkey Shift+3 for deleting the >> current page. It would be very good if there would be more hotkeys for more >> actions, including for confirmation dialogs, and have somewhere a list of >> all the hotkeys.)
>> Thanks.
>> --Octavian
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "accessible" group. >> To post to this group, send email to accessible@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> accessible+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/accessible?hl=en.
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-----Original Message----- From: accessible@googlegroups.com [mailto:accessible@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 1:32 AM To: accessible@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Google sites accessibility issues
Hi Sina,
I have tried only Firefox 8, Firefox 3.6, IE6 and latest Chrome. If I had free time, of course I would have tried more versions...
Firefox 8 consumes more than 400 MB and not the memory was the problem, but the fact that it reacted very very slow, so the computer appear as frozen for 10 - 20 seconds after each hotkey pressed.
Chrome especially, but Firefox also, had problems allowing the JAWS cursor to read the entire window, to be at least able to click on the things I can see on the page. Sometimes the entire page is visible, sometimes only some parts, and sometimes only the title bar.
I am planning to install IE9, but with IE there is a bigger problem, because I cannot test IE7, 8 or 9, and if I won't find them accessible enough to be able to go back to IE6 because it is not possible. And of course, I don't care only about the accessibility of Google services, but of other sites also.
But if you have tried IE8 and 9, which of them do you recommend? For JAWS 13, is IE9 at least as accessible as IE8?
Thanks.
--Octavian
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sina Bahram" <sbah...@nc.rr.com> To: <accessible@googlegroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2011 1:43 AM Subject: RE: Google sites accessibility issues
>I would point out that the other browsers in question were comparable with IE6. What I mean by that, or rather what I'm curious > about is whether IE 8+, firefox 7+, and so forth, were tried?
> Teddy, I hear you on the memory issues with FF, and I can't blame you at all for not wanting to try different versions, but it might > be elucidating to do so just for a test?
> Also, how about IE9? What version of jaws are you using? Sorry fi I missed that before.
> -----Original Message----- > From: accessible@googlegroups.com [mailto:accessible@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ryan E. Benson > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 6:29 PM > To: accessible@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Google sites accessibility issues
> Octavian,
> I am absolutely speechless that you had to revert to IE 6 to use this > service. Various thread replies I have seen on this list by Google > employees, are boasting Chrome's so called greatness. While testing > withe Chrome, were you using JAWS still or did you use ChromeVox?
> -- > Ryan E. Benson
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Octavian Rasnita <orasn...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Hello,
>> I've seen that in the last period Google made some changes to Google Sites >> which unfortunately made this service less accessible than before.
>> The biggest accessibility issues I found, not exactly in the order below, >> were:
>> 1. The buttons for creating and editting web pages are not text-based >> anymore, but buttons which are not labeled, and some browsers allow pushing >> those buttons only by using the JAWS cursor, but without those labels, they >> can't be found with the JAWS cursor. >> It would be nice if those buttons will be text-based again, or labeled.
>> 2. Google Sites was not officially supporting IE6, but IE6 was able to >> access Google Sites better than other browsers which are less accessible. >> Google Chrome is a little accessible, but only a little. Firefox latest >> version is accessible, but on Google Sites frozes the computer and I've seen >> that it eats many hundreads of MB of memory and it is hard to start >> installing and uninstalling older and older versions of Firefox in order to >> test which one can be used better.
>> Until a few days ago I was able to include/upload images to Google Sites >> using IE6, but in the last few days this was not possible anymore. In some >> cases I found an error message printed on the page telling that the file is >> empty, even though I tried to upload images that were uploaded on Google >> Sites a few days ago without problems.
>> I was able to include images with Firefox 3.6, but very hard, because in >> some cases with Firefox 3.6 I wasn't able to add the text (because the >> textarea was reported as read-only), and because after clicking with the >> JAWS cursor on the "Include" menu, it was very hard to find the menu option >> "Images". I have tried to move the cursor up and down for a lot of times, >> but only after very many trials I found that menu item. Usually JAWS >> reported the same thing as the cursor was locked on a single line.
>> With IE6, after browsing for the image Google Sites prompted an "OK" button >> which needed to be just pressed, but now Google Sites doesn't prompt that >> button anymore and it should be found as a separate form somewhere at the >> end of the page, as a common form, not in application mode as before.
>> And what's worst, sometimes that "Ok" button that should be used for >> confirming the image inclusion appears as disabled, so it can't be used who >> knows for what reasons, so the single solution is to refresh the page and do >> the inclusion again, or even to close the browser and try again.
>> Starting for a few days, IE6 doesn't show that OK button at all after >> including an image, so it is not included, and pressing the Save button >> either don't do anything, or it makes JAWS speak an error message that >> something is wrong, but I couldn't understand that very short message very >> well, and I couldn't find it printed somewhere on the page in order to be >> able to read it better word by word, but it was something about a thing >> which is not valid or something like that.
>> 3. The key combination Control+S for saving the currently eddited page >> sometimes works but sometimes not, and it just makes a click as when >> pressing a disabled button. Sometimes nothing happends even if I press the >> Save button with the JAWS cursor, and in those cases usually nothing >> happends even if I press the Cancel button and I need to close the window >> and open it again.
>> 4. The menus that should be used for accessing more actions, like deleting >> the current page or for including an image are very hard accessible, only by >> using the JAWS cursor, and this was better accessible in IE6 which now can't >> be used for including images as before, because in Firefox, especially in >> the newest versions, JAWS cursor can find very few elements on the screen >> and I've seen that after an Insert+Escape for refreshing the buffer, instead >> of seeing the screen better, JAWS was able to read just the title bar of >> Firefox window. And with Chrome is even worse. >> And after choosing an action, for example for deleting the current page, the >> dialog that request a confirmation for deleting it or not, is also hard to >> access with the JAWS cursor in order to press the "Delete" button. >> (At least it is good that there is the hotkey Shift+3 for deleting the >> current page. It would be very good if there would be more hotkeys for more >> actions, including for confirmation dialogs, and have somewhere a list of >> all the hotkeys.)
>> Thanks.
>> --Octavian
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "accessible" group. >> To post to this group, send email to accessible@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> accessible+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/accessible?hl=en.
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