Would you be more inclined to protect Omar Khadr's constitutional rights as a Canadian born citizen if he were a blond haired blue eyed White Anglo Saxon Protestant, Mr Harper?
fraeauldb...@gmail.com
Harper says Canada must leave the case in U.S. hands
Last Updated: Monday, July 21, 2008 | 6:00 PM ET
The Canadian Press
The leader of one of Canada's largest Islamic groups accused Prime
Minister Stephen Harper on Monday of being indifferent to Omar Khadr's
plight because he's "brown-skinned" and a Muslim.
In an opinion piece released to the media, Mohamed Elmasry, national
president of the Canadian Islamic Congress, wrote that Harper is
"callously" unconcerned about the 21-year-old Khadr, who faces trial
before a U.S. military tribunal at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in October.
"In this case, Mr. Harper is playing politics because of the backdrop
of Islamophobia in this country," Elmasry said. "This is where a
leader comes in, to say this is really wrong and I have to correct
that wrong by bringing this person [back to Canada] even if I lose
some political points with Islamophobes."
Khadr's lawyers and others want Ottawa to repatriate Khadr — who was
15 in 2002 when he was accused of killing a U.S. army medic in
Afghanistan — from the U.S. detention centre.
The prime minister repeated his vow to leave the case in U.S. hands
following the release of a videotape showing a Canadian official
interrogating a crying and despondent Khadr at Guantanamo Bay in 2004.
The official was told the U.S. military had deprived the then 17-year-
old of sleep for weeks to make him "more amenable and willing to
talk," according to a recently released internal report from the
Department of Foreign Affairs.
Harper said Ottawa has sought assurances that Khadr would be treated
humanely, adding his government was monitoring legal processes against
Khadr "very carefully."
But Elmasry wrote that Harper has shown a "shocking indifference" to
calls for Khadr's transfer.
Elmasry contrasted Khadr's case with that of dual Canadian-British
citizen William Sampson, who was freed from a death sentence in Saudi
Arabia in 2003. Prior to his release, Ottawa had said it had made
pleas on Sampson's behalf to the highest levels of the Saudi
government.
"Why is Stephen Harper so callously indifferent to Omar Khadr's case?"
Elmasry wrote. "It's painfully obvious: William Sampson is a white
westerner while his fellow Canadian citizen, Omar Khadr, is brown-
skinned and a Muslim."
Elmasry is no stranger to controversy. In 2004, he sparked a firestorm
of criticism by saying any Israeli over the age of 18 was a legitimate
target for suicide bombers because adult Israelis were required to do
military service.
© The Canadian Press, 2008
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/07/21/khadr-elmasry.html
catchme
a spokesperson on behalf Muslims, who has made very clear anti-Isreal
statements such as your quote, charges Harper with racism?
Not that I dont agree that Khadr should be acquitted (the principles of
Nuremberg dictates that Khadr, as a child soldier, is as much a victim
as the people whom he killed) should indeed be freed, mind- but your
source, and therefore the charge of racism- is somewhat lacking for its
very clear bias.
--
To the States or any one of them, or any city of the States,
Resist much, obey little,
Once unquestioning obedience, once fully enslaved,
Once fully enslaved, no nation, state, city of this earth,
ever after-ward resumes its liberty.
-Walt Whitman, 1860
Gen. Gus Cann
"E. Barry Bruyea" <lobb...@goaway.com> wrote in message
news:99ub841k83bdg06uf...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:59:01 GMT, catchme <som...@somewhere.net>
> wrote:
>
>>fraeauldb...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> PM ignoring Khadr because he's 'brown-skinned': Elmasry
>>> Harper says Canada must leave the case in U.S. hands
>>> Last Updated: Monday, July 21, 2008 | 6:00 PM ET
>>> The Canadian Press
>>>
>>> The leader of one of Canada's largest Islamic groups accused Prime
>>> Minister Stephen Harper on Monday of being indifferent to Omar Khadr's
>>> plight because he's "brown-skinned" and a Muslim.
>>>
>>> In an opinion piece released to the media, Mohamed Elmasry, national
>>> president of the Canadian Islamic Congress, wrote that Harper is
>>> "callously" unconcerned about the 21-year-old Khadr, who faces trial
>>> before a U.S. military tribunal at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in October.
>>>
>>> "In this case, Mr. Harper is playing politics because of the backdrop
>>> of Islamophobia in this country," Elmasry said. "This is where a
>>> leader comes in, to say this is really wrong and I have to correct
>>> that wrong by bringing this person [back to Canada] even if I lose
>>> some political points with Islamophobes."
>>>
>>> 15 in 2002 when he was accused of killing a U.S. army medic in
> liberals were in power, and everyday thereafter until Harper's
> conservative's took power? They did nothing, said nothing, but as
> usual, it's only bad if the conservatives are in power. Typical
> liberal hypocrisy. As to the 'spokesman' for Canada's Muslims, many
> of his past comments could easily be lapelled racist.
>
The bitching was there except the Liberals weren't part of it.
Funny argument Barry .......' the Liberals were guilty of treating a
citizen unjustly, so now its ok for the Conservatives to continue the
error.'
I though you guys said that people should vote Conservative to rectify the
wrongs of the Liberals.
It seems now that you are pleased to have a different bunch carry on the
same shit.
bluedev...@yahoo.com
terrorist?
Maybe he was born in Toronto. So what. The family was only here for
the free social health care.
Would any of you liberal nanny staters want him back here dating your
daughter?
Sunny Beasty
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:59:01 GMT, catchme <some...@somewhere.net>
> wrote:
> liberals were in power, and everyday thereafter until Harper's
> conservative's took power? They did nothing, said nothing, but as
> usual, it's only bad if the conservatives are in power. Typical
> liberal hypocrisy. As to the 'spokesman' for Canada's Muslims, many
>
> - Show quoted text -
Which comments of Mr.Elmasry can be labelled racist? Examples please.
sdgreen
==================================
Not withstanding Peffers that you are an idiot, Mohamed Elmasry while
entitled to his opinion, is beginning to piss off a number of both
Muslims and non-Muslims.
His continual chant is not welcome.
Finally, I do no give a shit about the radical Khadr family, who in my
opinion should be expelled from Canada forthwith. Omar Khadr, a 15 or so
kid made a choice which if found guilty will not go well for him.
There is absolutely no need for Canada to become involved in this case.
Both the last Liberal and current Conservative governments have taken
the same approach, and rightly so.
So Peffers, you bleeding heart left wing nutcase, fuck off!
sparky
> PM ignoring Khadr because he's 'brown-skinned': Elmasry
> Harper says Canada must leave the case in U.S. hands
This is the way it should be since the little bastard murdered an
American soldier
MI Wakefield
<fraeauldb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0ddba11b-9e40-4441...@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
PM ignoring Khadr because he's 'brown-skinned': Elmasry
Harper says Canada must leave the case in U.S. hands
Last Updated: Monday, July 21, 2008 | 6:00 PM ET
The Canadian Press
The leader of one of Canada's largest Islamic groups accused Prime
Minister Stephen Harper on Monday of being indifferent to Omar Khadr's
plight because he's "brown-skinned" and a Muslim.
++++++++++++++++
Tell it to the Albertan convicted of sex with a minor in Cuba (where the age
of consent is 18) ... he want to serve the rest of his sentence in Canada
... Cuba, apparently, has no objections to shipping him home ... he's going
to finish his sentence in Cuba.
catchme
our government has but two choices in matters such as Omar:
1) admit that Nuremberg trials were fraudulent
2) carry out the principles of Nuremberg according to the precedents
that the trials set, in ALL circumstances.
To do else, is to show the world the depths in which we are willing to
go to display our hypocrisy.
catchme
>
> Which comments of Mr.Elmasry can be labelled racist? Examples please.
In 2004, he sparked a firestorm
> >> of criticism by saying any Israeli over the age of 18 was a legitimate
> >> target for suicide bombers because adult Israelis were required to do
> >> military service.
are there no innocents?
if so, then this would inviolate his claim to Omar's defence....
壯 KR仕冉
wrote:
>bluedev...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Why would any sane tax payer want the government to look after a young
>> terrorist?
>> Maybe he was born in Toronto. So what. The family was only here for
>> the free social health care.
>> Would any of you liberal nanny staters want him back here dating your
>> daughter?
>>
>
>our government has but two choices in matters such as Omar:
>1) admit that Nuremberg trials were fraudulent
>2) carry out the principles of Nuremberg according to the precedents
>that the trials set, in ALL circumstances.
>To do else, is to show the world the depths in which we are willing to
>go to display our hypocrisy.
This is more about the UN convention on child soldiers. It's been
internatioanlly accepted that Khadr obviously meets the criteria for
special protection under the convention. Canada is supposed to ask the
US for Khadr (Canadian child soldier) to be repatriated so that he can
be rehabilitated and reintegrated into the free society he's entitled
to as a citizen of Canada and a victim of those adults who used him as
a combatant.
According to the covention, all signatories do not recognize the right
of any nation or it's military to prosecute a child soldier. For this
reason Canada's honourable leader is expected to intervene in the
illegal US procedures.
The US has honourably pledged to, "'cooperate in the implementation
of' the protocol, including the rehabilitation and social
reintegration of persons who are victims of acts contrary to the
protocol."
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2002/16213.htm
The US would hand him over if asked because they're our honourable
allies for whom we've disgraced outselves, if not our politicians,
more than enough.
So if Harper isn't a racist, what's keeping him from being the leader
of Canada and doing what is right in this instance? If he really
believes the answer he's been giving then he's ignorant of Canada's
obligations to making a better world with higher standards of decency.
Which smacks of the backwood, 'regionalist' intelligence, if you could
call it that, we use to hear from the Alliance Party. Are real
conservatives sure they have a conservative leadership?
Would Canadians want their country to withdraw it's pledge to the UN?
"If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it's probably a
duck!"
壯 KR仕冉
<lobb...@goaway.com> wrote:
>Right, let's give a green light to the Taliban, al Quaeda, and all
>other terrorist groups to 'employ' 14 & 15 year olds to commit murder,
>knowing they 'can't' be prosecuted because the UN says they are
>'children'.
Every other country that uses child soldiers could think the way
you're suggesting. But there are no exceptions in the convention. We
know, understand, signed and ratified it. Now we're obliged by honour
and expected to do what is right.
> And let's not forget that Khadr was in Afghanistan under
>the auspices of his own parents and now they're whining about it.
Obviously his presence in Afghanistan was backed by his family. A
child, his age at the time, would hardly have had the resources or the
wherewithall to just jump on a plane to Afghanistan. Are you implying
something about him that's supposed make it OK that he's being treated
as he is?
His mother is his only parent now and the outcry we've been hearing
has been from his family. He has other family members that have asked
Harper to do the right thing. Pleading not whining.
Am I to take it you'd prefer Harper and his Alliance Party withdraw
Canada from the UN conventions on children?
Sunny Beasty
How is the above comment racist. It is a perfectly legit opinion
considering that all Israeli adults are indeed considered part of the
reserve forces of a military thaqt illegally occupies land in
contravention of all UN resolutions.
Viejo Vizcacha
> that created the state of Israel & an Arab/Palestinian state; a vote
> that the Arab/Palestinians totally ignored.
>
So, when is Israel going to recognize those 1948 borders and hand back
the rest of the land to Palestinians?
V.V.
catchme
> other terrorist groups to 'employ' 14 & 15 year olds to commit murder,
> knowing they 'can't' be prosecuted because the UN says they are
> the auspices of his own parents and now they're whining about it.
liberty or death:
earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica/bookmarks/henry/speech.htm
this speech addresses those who would sacrifice liberty for security.
Ben Franklin also said that those who would give up liberty for
security, deserve neither.
what this means, is that above all else, we must not let the State
abrogate ANY of our- or even of our enemies' peoples Rights, Freedoms, etc.
the only way terrorists can possibly win, is if we become so afraid of
them that we allow our governments to imprison us with excessively
restrictive laws so that we may feel safe.
Extend this thinking beyond Khadr, and you see the big picture- what is
REALLY going on.
catchme
>
>
> I don't consider a 15 year old a child...period.
>
this is why we upped the age of sexual consent, and why most have to
wait until 16 to drive or vote, and 19 to drink?
Dave Smith
> >our government has but two choices in matters such as Omar:
> >1) admit that Nuremberg trials were fraudulent
> >2) carry out the principles of Nuremberg according to the precedents
> >that the trials set, in ALL circumstances.
> >To do else, is to show the world the depths in which we are willing to
> >go to display our hypocrisy.
>
> This is more about the UN convention on child soldiers. It's been
> internatioanlly accepted that Khadr obviously meets the criteria for
> special protection under the convention.
Is it? Have you actually read the UN convention? It has a lot more to do
with the recruiting and use of child soldiers than about repatriating them.
If people want to harp about his child soldier status they should directing
their outrage against his family and the terrorist network who recruited him.
Dave Smith
> hi
>
> >Would Canadians want their country to withdraw it's pledge to the UN?
> >
> >"If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it's probably a
> >duck!"
>
> Right, let's give a green light to the Taliban, al Quaeda, and all
> other terrorist groups to 'employ' 14 & 15 year olds to commit murder,
> knowing they 'can't' be prosecuted because the UN says they are
> 'children'. And let's not forget that Khadr was in Afghanistan under
> the auspices of his own parents and now they're whining about it.
Don't you find it the least bit amusing that all these people who are whining
about Khadr being a child soldier are under the impression that we have to let
them go free as if it were similar to our Young Offenders Act. While harping
about the UN convention they don't know enough about to know that if is more
about the recruiting and use of child soldiers than about dealing with them
when they are caught.
Dave Smith
>
>
> Every other country that uses child soldiers could think the way
> you're suggesting. But there are no exceptions in the convention. We
> know, understand, signed and ratified it. Now we're obliged by honour
> and expected to do what is right.
So we should be prosecuting Khadr's family for having recruited him?
> Obviously his presence in Afghanistan was backed by his family. A
> child, his age at the time, would hardly have had the resources or the
> wherewithall to just jump on a plane to Afghanistan. Are you implying
> something about him that's supposed make it OK that he's being treated
> as he is?
For a lot of us, it is a matter of whether or not we really care about his
treatment or repatriating him so that we can have the honour of having the
likes of a terrorist like him in our midst.
> His mother is his only parent now and the outcry we've been hearing
> has been from his family. He has other family members that have asked
> Harper to do the right thing. Pleading not whining.
Bear in mind that this is the same family who left Canada because they thought
it was a vile and decadent place. Most of the family are terrorist or terrorist
supporters. After his capture his sister said that the death of Sgt. Speer was
"no big deal". His mother said that she would rather see her sons in an al
Queda training camp than to be or drugs or having homosexual relations in
Canada.
Having rejected our culture and political system, the Khadr family moved to
Pakistan and got even more heavily involved in the al Queda terrorist network,
an organization dedicated to destroying our dedicated system, one which has a
more tolerant view of drugs and homosexuality, but now that poor little Omar is
being detained pending some sort of trial, these same people who don't believe
in democracy and human rights are whining, yes WHINING, that he is being
denied his human rights. Give us a break. We don't care.
We did not send him to Afghanistan. We did not encourage him to fight against
our society and our cultural values. We did not engage him and his fellow
terrorists in a fire fight. This is not home to him. It is just a convenient
base of operations, a place to come for medical care and recuperation.
gordo
<lobb...@goaway.com> wrote:
This child soldier is innocent until proven guilty.Innocence will be
very hard to prove when the child is tortured.There are war crimes
committed and they have been committed by Bush and his circle of
evil.The Hague has been very patient but the goons of the world can be
taken to justice.The American people have figured it out.There will be
no place to hide.
Gordo
>didn't vote for them to govern Canada, notwithstanding the fact that
>the UN is more or less ruled by third world shitholes.
catchme
the word terrorist has been bandied about for too many uses as of late.
Consider that the US were an invading force, though they claimed they
were not "at war", but in fact involved in a "police action".
Next they first labelled Khadr as an "illegal combatant", but later
called him a "terrorist".
In fact, he has dual canadian citizenship, and was involved in assisting
the defence of his parents' birth country from an invading force.
Not to mention that the US can (possibly will) face criminal charges
from an international court for carrying out an illegal war....
Viejo Vizcacha
> Israel that 'gives up' something, such as the Sinai.
Why is Israel the one who always has to give back something? Could it be
the same reason that in order to get peace between the thief and the
victim the thief has to give back (at least part of what) he stole? This
really takes some chutzpah! It reminds me of the story about the guy who
killed both his parents, and then asked mercy from the judge on the
basis he was just an orphan.
The reason is Israel who has to give back, is because it is Israel who
has taken the land from Palestinians.
V.V.
> They should
> remove the settlers from the West Bank, but without some kind of
> guarantee, backed up by the International community, why the hell
> should they give it up? The Arabs invade, they lose, and Israel is the
> one that has to 'give up' something. Look at Gaza; the Israelis move
> out, but are still under constant rocket attack. The Syrians want the
> Golan Heights back; how stupid would Israel be to agree to that?
> especially given the strategic and tactical advantage that would give
> Syria?
>