Rap Music
Kimberly Viducich
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Schuyler Waynforth
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
Angela D. Burkhardt
We use it (if it has bad lyrics) as an opportunity for discussing those topics. This may not work for your daughter if you believe she will embrace the negative to spite you and your dh.
Maybe present her a CD or ipod rap/hip hop that has positive messages.
Angela
________________________________
> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:06:15 -0800
> From: kv...@yahoo.com
> Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Rap Music
> To: unschoolin...@googlegroups.com
Sandra Dodd
is something filled with the a sense that she is getting away with
something, the rush of the taboo. I would listen to rap music with
her. I am sure if you explored you could find rap music that you
Marty likes and knows quite a bit about it and he's a pretty peaceful
guy. He knows a lot about LOTS of kinds of music.
He's played me some songs he thought I would like for one reason or
another.
Maybe families here have recommendations of things she might like.
Sandra
Kimberly Viducich
those topics.
Sandra Dodd
Latifah. Missy Elliot is the female he's listened to the most but
says it's really sexual. Beyonce?
He said he's sure there are more he's just not thinking of.
Sandra
Laureen
On Nov 27, 2007 11:06 AM, Kimberly Viducich <kv...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> My almost 9 year old daughter really likes rap music. My DH and I are very
> concerned about the lyrics.
Ah, but not all the lyrics in "rap" are bad. One of my alltime
favorite bands, Sudden Rush, sings Hawaiian Rap. As in, some of the
lyrics in some of the songs are in the Hawaiian language. Beautiful
stuff; I could listen for hours, and sometimes I do. And many of their
songs are intensely political. I have learned so much about the
Hawaiian perspective on many historical events by listening to their
stuff. Read this abstract to a scholarly paper about them here:
http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/discourse/v023/23.1akindes.pdf,
"Sudden Rush: Na Mele Paleoleo (Hawaiian Rap) as Liberatory
Discourse".
Another ethnic rap band I like, WithOut Rezervation, sings songs from
a Native American perspective. Talk about incredible material for
conversation!!!
A friend of mine who's an Irish music fan tells me "the winners write
the histories, the losers write the songs", and in rap music, there is
such an outpouring of alternative sociological statement. I'm not
crazy about a lot of the gangsta stuff, and I can see how that might
make you kind of uncomfortable, but really as a genre, rap is just
amazing stuff. Keep digging...
--
~~L!
~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~
Writing here:
http://www.theexcellentadventure.com/
http://lifewithoutschool.typepad.com/
Publishing here:
http://huntpress.com/
~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~
Eber...@aol.com
In a message dated 11/27/2007 2:18:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
kv...@yahoo.com writes:
was wondering if anyone has dealt with similar issues. I would really like to delve into being interested with her but then I listen to some of the lyrics and I cringe. She has an ipod with lots of songs that aren't rap, but she likes to listen to the radio in the car, and of course she wants the rap songs she hears on the radio on her ipod.Thanks |
*************
I'm almost 50 and LOVE rap music .... my kids don't, but I do
- much to their chagrin sometimes. Sometimes crossover hip-hop
is classified as rap. There are hard core rappers and then
there is the more socially acceptable/radio play marketable
variety.
Is your daughter buying music off the shelf or downloading it from
the computer? Downloading it from a source like Limewire can be
helpful, because these shareware users will often label the version they
are sharing as "clean" or "dirty". You can find acceptable versions
of a lot of songs with a "clean" label.
Off the shelf, CD's still carry an "explicit language" sticker or
some other such "warning".
If she's happy with the radio version I wouldn't worry. Like
Schuyler suggested, simply "hearing" certain words will not scar her IF
her life is rich with other textures and values that you have shared with
her.
For me, listening to certain kinds of music allows me to vent,
vicariously, through the music. At any moment you can catch me
listening to TI, 50 cent, Nate Dogg, Eminem, T-Pain, E-Forty, or the Ying
Yang Twins ... some of it is pretty raw but at times it just really
resonates with me. Other times I can not get enough Chopin, Liszt,
Greig, or Beethoven.
I guess what I'm trying to convey is that it's possible to like many
kinds of music and listening to one certain style at any particular time
doesn't seem to be life threatening. If you hear things in the music
that cause you to raise your eyebrows, you can ask her why she thinks they
said something like that, or use it as a jumping off point to discuss
different points of view and different cultures.
Good luck and try to enjoy ALL music!!!!
Linda |
Hammer
You Feel That Way," is on YouTube, along with videos set to his songs,
"Alphabet Aerobics" and "Chemical Calisthenics."
Kathryn
On Nov 27, 11:06 am, Kimberly Viducich <k...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
> My almost 9 year old daughter really likes rap music. My DH and I are very concerned about the lyrics. We know banning it isn't the answer. My dd's personality is such that if she has any inkling that we may not like something for some reason, she really wants to do it more. I was wondering if anyone has dealt with similar issues. I would really like to delve into being interested with her but then I listen to some of the lyrics and I cringe. She has an ipod with lots of songs that aren't rap, but she likes to listen to the radio in the car, and of course she wants the rap songs she hears on the radio on her ipod.Thanks
> KImberly
>
Angela D. Burkhardt
Honestly......for us, if they are old enough to listen.....they are old enough to talk about it. Dom (just turned 8) and I have discussed premarital sex, drugs, gangs, and modesty based on song lyrics.
I would rather bring it up then to have hi come to his own conclusion based on hearing it elsewhere :)
(((hug))) It can be difficult. I just try to present as honest as I can. I basically ask questions and answer him back as needed depending on what he says.
Angela
________________________________
> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:52:41 -0800
> From: kv...@yahoo.com
> Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Rap Music
> To: Unschoolin...@googlegroups.com
Joyce Fetteroll
I have thought about that. At 9 years old the thought of some of these topics seems premature. I will do it though if it seems like the best solution.
Sandra Dodd
(((hug))) It can be difficult. I just try to present as honest as I
can. I basically ask questions and answer him back as needed
depending on what he says.
-=-
When talking to young kids, give short answers, not long details.
I'm just pointing this out because I've seen none at all and too
long, and neither of those is great.
If parents talk too much kids tune them out after a while. If you
give a short interesting answer, the child will ask more then, or
later. It will be a dialog and not a major presentation.
Think of it like "Where do babies come from?" The first-pass answer
to that is "From inside their moms' bellies."
Questions about violence and sex, same deal. Very simple answers, or
else the explanations do way more damage than the song could've done.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
wanted to discuss the lyrics because of fear of some influence on me
I would have thought "Geez, Mom, it's just a song. I like the music.
Parents were crazily up in arms about the Rolling Stones' "Let's
Spend the Night Together" when it came out in 65 or whenever. I
wasn't thinking sex. I was thinking talking until the sun came up,
or a sleepover. I wouldn't have cared much one way or the other, but
the parents and teachers and news commentators were acting like
crazed monkeys.
Sandra
Jennifer
--- Sandra Dodd <San...@sandradodd.com> wrote:
> Parents were crazily up in arms about the Rolling
> Stones' "Let's
> Spend the Night Together" when it came out in 65 or
> whenever. I
> wasn't thinking sex. I was thinking talking until
> the sun came up,
> or a sleepover. I wouldn't have cared much one way
> or the other, but
> the parents and teachers and news commentators were
> acting like
> crazed monkeys.
I remember in around 1986 writing a persuasive paper
in English class about some group headed up by Tipper
Gore. I can't remember the name ... they wanted to put
warning labels on albums with offensive lyrics.
Frank Zappa was the main spokesperson against it.
I was 16 at the time, and what strikes me is that I
didn't even KNOW that the songs I was enjoying (like
Cyndi Lauper's "She Bop" or Madonna's "Dress You Up")
were sexually explicit until I read these articles
saying they were some of the songs people wanted to
put warning labels on.
In other words, I only knew that these songs had
sexual implications BECAUSE of groups like these.
Jenny
Visit me and my family at my blog!
http://beanmommyandthethreebeans.blogspot.com/
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Make Yahoo! your homepage.
MrsStranahan
I listened to songs as a kid over and over again and I had no idea what some of the songs were really about until I was an adult. When I heard the song Divers Do it Deeper by David Allen Coe in my head I had men in deep sea diving suit diving in an ocean. I heard that song not long ago and I was like, ohh ... As an adult I like a lot of songs that could be labeled dirty. I don't take things so literally when I'm listening to a song to get offended by them.
There are tons of 'clean' rap songs and plenty of 'dirty' pop songs, country songs .. really just pick any genre. And the stuff on the radio is by definition 'clean'.
Not listening to rap in the car is not the same as banning something.
If you want to get creative about it learn some popular rap music she likes and the next time the song comes on the radio sing as loud as you can and flash some gang sings, get your husband to join if you can .. really, I bet she will NEVER want to listen to rap music with you again. Though, not sure you should want that.
Lauren
k
Penta
"There is lots of comedy on TV, and people just aren't running around
in the streets being funny"
or something like that. :) In line I believe with what was questioned/
written/quoted below.
Shonna
Lizzil32
music. Music that speaks to responsibility and even faith. My husband
cannot hang with contempory worship music all the time. So he sought
out different genres that upheld his beliefs. He's found Christian
rap, Jewish rap, and I'm certain with a bit of looking you can find
music that has that vibe--since it's really the vibe, the feel, the
mooooove ya tush beat--that most are looking for in rap with out the
"pop ya sista ugly words ugly words". For many it speaks to their
lives, but since you may not live that life the lyrics are
irrelavent. You can motivate discussions on these topics within
songs. I worry that what goes in can't be gotten out. The more you
listen to a certain way of speaking, singin, etc the more it you
become a perpetuator of the language within it. It takes more
discipline in other words to not be influenced by what you hear
repeatedly.
I've discuss with DD about songs by BS the "hit me baby one more
time," lyric just freaked me. Not because BS want's her man to hit
her, but because children of my kids age hear things literally, and I
felt like I needed to be doubly sure dd understood. We checked the
content of the music with what we asked her she believed in, and since
it didn't jive she put it away and hasn't asked since.
On Nov 27, 2:06 pm, Kimberly Viducich <k...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
> My almost 9 year old daughter really likes rap music. My DH and I are very concerned about the lyrics. We know banning it isn't the answer. My dd's personality is such that if she has any inkling that we may not like something for some reason, she really wants to do it more. I was wondering if anyone has dealt with similar issues. I would really like to delve into being interested with her but then I listen to some of the lyrics and I cringe. She has an ipod with lots of songs that aren't rap, but she likes to listen to the radio in the car, and of course she wants the rap songs she hears on the radio on her ipod.Thanks
> KImberly
>
Sandra Dodd
listen to a certain way of speaking, singin, etc the more it you
become a perpetuator of the language within it. It takes more
discipline in other words to not be influenced by what you hear
repeatedly.
It takes awareness and mindfulness, not discipline.
There are LOTS of things I heard repeatedly when I was a kid that
influence me now. They influence me not to repeat those harmful
phrases. <g>
-=-I've discuss with DD about songs by BS the "hit me baby one more
time," lyric just freaked me. Not because BS want's her man to hit
her, but because children of my kids age hear things literally, and I
felt like I needed to be doubly sure dd understood. -=-
Holly listened to a lot of Britney Spears a few years ago, and I
heard that song but I never thought of it literally. The phrase "hit
me" comes more from poker games and other card games. I don't think
Holly thought it was about a request for violence.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
Susan Fuerst
-----Original Message-----
From: Unschoolin...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:Unschoolin...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Lizzil32
I've discuss with DD about songs by BS the "hit me baby one more time,"
lyric just freaked me. Not because BS want's her man to hit her, but because
children of my kids age hear things literally, and I felt like I needed to
be doubly sure dd understood. We checked the content of the music with what
we asked her she believed in, and since it didn't jive she put it away and
hasn't asked since.
When I was a child, I'd sing songs because of the rhythm, beat and the flow
of the words. I didn't think about the meaning hardly at all. I'm not
saying some children might not, but I think it's like many things that 'go
over a child's head'. For instance, my children watch the Shrek movies and
really don't 'get' some of the nuances and sexual references. We watched
hairspray recently also, and they didn't register some of the references -
like about the girl who left the Corny show for 9 months, and Corny's
subsequent comment about her sex life.
I wonder where your dd was about all this, and what it felt like to her to
have someone 'be doubly sure' she understood. I would have nodded and said
I understood if someone had done that.
A few years ago, my son (he was 4 or 5) began to sing the song at the end of
Shrek - "I like big butts and I cannot lie..." He didn't enunciate any more
of the words clearly, but did have some jumbled words to the beat of the
song. We didn't feel the need to deter him. Eventually, he listened to it
enough and learned the words to the whole clip. We did give him information
about where he ought to avoid singing it, and he was a bit older by then,
closer to six.
overall, we didn't even go into the meaning of the words (beyond letting him
know when he might offend someone) because he wasn't aware. So he learned
that they are offensive to some, and he didn't explore it any further.
Eventually, he drifted away from it. I'm glad we didn't make a huge fuss or
need to 'be doubly sure' about trying to force him to understand something
he had no need or desire to understand.
blessings, Susan
Sandra Dodd
need to 'be doubly sure' about trying to force him to understand
something
I agree.
It's not the same as a family that won't discuss sex at all, or gets
mad at children for asking.
Being available to discuss it if the children want to is better than
bombarding them with information they don't want. Seriously. The
concerns some parents have about sex are made worse by the parental
posture/attitude/disapproval/fear. More than "made worse," the
sexual awareness might be created entirely by the parental reaction.
When a kissing-in-bed scene comes on on a movie, most kids are
already doing something else. If you rush to mute it or fast-
forward, they'll notice that more than the content itself. They're
waiting for kids or dogs to be on the show.
When my kids and their friends got interested in Meat Loaf's Bat Out
of Hell album, Brett Henry said once in a group of friends that the
guy in Two out of Three Ain't Bad was an idiot. They weren't
absorbing the message of the song; they were analyzing the
relationship and the problems of living in the past instead of
embracing the present.
I suppose there are countless families that wouldn't let their kids
own an album with "Hell" on the cover.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
Lizzil32
On Nov 28, 9:02 am, Sandra Dodd <San...@sandradodd.com> wrote:
> -=-I worry that what goes in can't be gotten out. The more you
> listen to a certain way of speaking, singin, etc the more it you
> become a perpetuator of the language within it. It takes more
> discipline in other words to not be influenced by what you hear
> repeatedly.
> -=-
>
> It takes awareness and mindfulness, not discipline.
>
> There are LOTS of things I heard repeatedly when I was a kid that
> influence me now. They influence me not to repeat those harmful
> phrases. <g>
Self-discipline. Not punishment or prostration. That same self
discipline and a modicum of decorum probably keeps you from
communicating with your peers in the same fashion you might have heard
in music. The kids, however, do communicate in fashionable language.
Not all, I should say so as not to stereo-type or generalize, but
many.
We discussed what dd thought the song was saying, and she thought the
singer wanted to be hit. I didn't really know what BS meant by "hit
me." It does have more than one connotation. Yet when I look at the
lyrics in context there's no clear way to discern what she's actually
saying with the "hit me" line. There are no other words in the text
that would lead you to discern "oh we're talkin about black jack
here." What she really means is "come back, baby one more time." She
needs a second chance at this relationship. There are so many songs
out there that are unclear in their metaphors. You may draw a
conclusion based on context and experience and find by way of an
interview that you were way off mark. DD doesn't have enough life
experience or even educational experience to hear said words and say,
"Okay she means come back." Often I think she just ignores undesirable
or undecipherable content, but for how long?
I'm thinking my husband and I have lived fairly diverse musical taste
lives. We have, and we know, there is so much really awesome stuff out
there that may not even necessarily jive with everything we hold as
beliefs, but it was music that told a story greater than the players.
DH already shares some of his musical tastes with the kids. They LOVE
dad's music picks in part I think because he isn't just sharing a disc
he's sharing himself. They just dig it and we totally think he's a
star dj! So with so much great stuff to choose from why not be aware
and mindful enough to say, "Hey I know you really like this style, and
here's a group of artists that have a nicer perspective or a more
encouraging story within the music itself to tell. Interested?"
Rock On, Liz
Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is
impossible to be silent.
Victor Hugo
Sandra Dodd
or undecipherable content, but for how long?-=-
Until she begins to decipher it or to ask you about it.
Or maybe for the rest of her life.
I ignore undesirable or undecipherable content. When people are
speaking in a language I don't understand, I just hear it like water
flowing, like music. I don't try to decipher it.
-=-Mindfulness and awareness are disciplines.
Self-discipline-=-
I don't agree at all.
-=- That same self discipline and a modicum of decorum probably keeps
you from
communicating with your peers in the same fashion you might have heard
in music. -=-
No.
Mindfulness and awareness and a full understanding of decorum inform
how I communicate with people.
"A modicum of decorum" isn't a nice thing to say to or about someone
else.
"Self discipline" is like "self regulation." It's still about
discipline and rules. How and why should one discipline and regulate
oneself, when decision making in the light of compassion and goodness
will work much better?
Sandra
Joyce Fetteroll
When my kids and their friends got interested in Meat Loaf's Bat Out
of Hell album, Brett Henry said once in a group of friends that the
guy in Two out of Three Ain't Bad was an idiot. They weren't
absorbing the message of the song; they were analyzing the
relationship and the problems of living in the past instead of
embracing the present.
k
Lizzil32
On Nov 28, 3:27 pm, Sandra Dodd <San...@sandradodd.com> wrote:
> -=- Often I think she just ignores undesirable
> or undecipherable content, but for how long?-=-
>
> Until she begins to decipher it or to ask you about it.
>
> Or maybe for the rest of her life.
> I ignore undesirable or undecipherable content. When people are
> speaking in a language I don't understand, I just hear it like water
> flowing, like music. I don't try to decipher it.
>
picks up lil 2yr old and says "Hey say, I love you." Like she's a tape
recorder. She just hears it and repeats it. Like the little boy who
says "Crud"--or some other more embarrasing faux pas--after hearing
your 3rd cousin Betty, once removed say it while stubbing her toe on
that coffee table. It's also how lil 2yr old knows the words "donde es
tu zapatos" means where's your shoes, because my sista-girlfriend
speaks broken spanish to her children/all children in her household.
You might not try to decipher it, but your brain picks up more than
you know. Your self-discipline and life experience keep you from using
it inappropriately. Something children only learn with time and
phrases like "That's not nice to say in polite company, please dont
say that here or at home."
>
> "Self discipline" is like "self regulation." It's still about
> discipline and rules. How and why should one discipline and regulate
> oneself, when decision making in the light of compassion and goodness
> will work much better?
you expect the "rules" to be followed and that we will "self-regulate"
our posts. I'm learning to self-regulate how I problem solve with my
children and how I relate to my children by using this forum as a
sounding board. It will take a great deal more self-discipline on my
part than perhaps others to change to a life more full. Life itself
takes a measure self-discipline ie, what will I let in, and what will
I let leave out, and what will I not even entertain.
Sandra Dodd
Really?
yes, I know.
But little children aren't learning ALL the language around them.
They're ignoring most adult-to-adult conversation for the first few
years, and they're ignoring a lot of movie dialog and a lot of song
lyrics. Alarmed adults explaining it all to them is not a helpful
addition to the noise around them.
When an adult hears another language full speed between native
speakers, they're not likely to pick up a lot of it. I lived in a
70% Hispanic town and can understand a lot of Spanish, after years of
exposure, but the easy stuff comes first, and it's easy to ignore
when it's not to or about me or about things I know about. Same with
young kids and complex lyrics.
-=-You or the originator of this forum has set decorum for this site,
and
you expect the "rules" to be followed and that we will "self-regulate"
our posts. -=-
Joyce Fetteroll, Pam Sorooshian and I inherited this forum, though we
were on it since it was new. We worked together to set guidelines.
People don't have to self-regulate. They can choose to cooperate or
not. If they choose not to, we'll boot them off. It doesn't take a
lot of self discipline to read those guidelines and be cooperative.
-=- I'm learning to self-regulate how I problem solve with my
children and how I relate to my children by using this forum as a
sounding board. It will take a great deal more self-discipline on my
part than perhaps others-=-
It would be easier for you and your children if instead of looking at
a great deal of self discipline and self regulation and problem
solving, if you look at the good parts of the forum--the
encouragement to live by principles and to make mindful choices
moment to moment.
-=- Life itself
takes a measure self-discipline ie, what will I let in, and what will
I let leave out, and what will I not even entertain.
-=-
That can all be rephrased in terms of choices. The idea of "self
discipline" isn't as helpful to understanding unschoolig as the idea
of making mindful choices is. It's similar to the difference between
teaching and learning.
http://sandradodd.com/teaching/
http://sandradodd.com/control
If you think of controlling yourself, and of your children
controlling themselves, it's till about control.
If people live by principles their choices come easily.
Sandra
Joyce Fetteroll
I'm learning to self-regulate how I problem solve with my
children and how I relate to my children by using this forum as a
sounding board. It will take a great deal more self-discipline on my
part than perhaps others to change to a life more full. Life itself
takes a measure self-discipline ie, what will I let in, and what will
I let leave out, and what will I not even entertain.
You might not try to decipher it, but your brain picks up more thanyou know.
Sandra Dodd
Thanks, Joyce. That describes very well the way I hear music at first.
I know the lyrics of tunes I learned when I was very young, in the
1950's, and I usually know all the words, but it took years of repeat
(or hearing it or singing it) to put it into memory that way.
Yesterday Holly woke up and sang "good morning" in such a way that it
triggered me to continue with
"...good morning
The best to you each morning
From K-E-double-L
O-double-G
Kellog's best to you"
She looked at me as though she'd never heard that (because she
hadn't) and said "I was singing 'Good Morning Baltimore." Then she
wanted me to sing the Kellog's jingle two more times.
I asked her and our friend Ben (who's dancing with her on her MySpace
page, for those who might know those images) about what they thought
of those Britney Spears lyrics. Ben started reciting them... they
were all in his head from repeated exposure. He said he never
thought of it literally, figured it was "give me another chance," but
he's older than Holly. I asked Holly and she said she kinda
wondered, but it didn't matter. It never disturbed her that she
didn't really understand what the lyrics were about.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
violence (on TV and games and music) because it can feel like a way
Kids who are in repressive, controlled, demeaning situations can
become violent too (in attitude and words, if not in physical deeds).
Sandra
Pamela Sorooshian
I'm learning to self-regulate how I problem solve with mychildren and how I relate to my children by using this forum as asounding board. It will take a great deal more self-discipline on mypart than perhaps others to change to a life more full. Life itselftakes a measure self-discipline ie, what will I let in, and what willI let leave out, and what will I not even entertain.
Angela D. Burkhardt
This is REALLY wonderful. I have always had issues about being pretty hard on myself. :( I have been diagnosed with severe ADHD (also known as anti-sheeple disorder......doesn't do things like everyone else) It was hard for me to really embrace my differences and celebrate them. I have an easier time doing that for my children, but I tend to forget about being my own motivator. Thank you for reminding myself that more "self discipline" is not the answer. I need to make the best choices I can with joy! ::: happy tears:::
Thank you.....Angela
From: pamso...@earthlink.net
It has helped me a LOT, in many different areas of life, to stop thinking in terms of trying to be more self-regulating or self-disciplined, but to think, instead, of making the best "choices" possible.