I work for the Ontario Ombudsman's office, and I'm noticing that when
people come to the complaints page on our site, they tend to print out
and mail complaint forms, rather than fill them online. This is
hurting our work flow - obviously the more people use the online
complaint forms the better. Any ideas/suggestions on how to have more
people use the online forms?
http://www.ombudsman.on.ca/en/make-a-complaint.aspx
Thank you, and I apologize if this question is off-topic, or
inappropriate.
(x-posted from torcamp, as per suggestion from the group)
--
Elena Yunusov
(416) 817-6296
elena.yunu...@gmail.com
Hey everyone, I referred Elena to the group to receive your input to
her situation. I have already provided direction to her regarding PDF
forms, link visibility, online forms, the unnecessary workload for
users, saving a form draft and submitting. Any other input the group
may have, I'm sure she would appreciate it. All the best Elena.
> I work for the Ontario Ombudsman's office, and I'm noticing that when
> people come to the complaints page on our site, they tend to print out
> and mail complaint forms, rather than fill them online. This is
> hurting our work flow - obviously the more people use the online
> complaint forms the better. Any ideas/suggestions on how to have more
> people use the online forms?
> http://www.ombudsman.on.ca/en/make-a-complaint.aspx
> Thank you, and I apologize if this question is off-topic, or
> inappropriate.
> (x-posted from torcamp, as per suggestion from the group)
> --
> Elena Yunusov
> (416) 817-6296
> elena.yunu...@gmail.com
On first look, it is obvious to me that people would choose to download the
PDF form from the right side of the page. You present the online option as a
button on the left, with no nearby clues as to the fact that it is the start
of a multi-step process, or that it is easier, quicker or more desirable to
the user in any way. I would guess that people recognize the PDF icon and
know what to do with it. Your online form link does not communicate much at
all.
Cheers,
Lynda Chiotti
On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Elena Yunusov <elena.yunu...@gmail.com>wrote:
> I work for the Ontario Ombudsman's office, and I'm noticing that when
> people come to the complaints page on our site, they tend to print out
> and mail complaint forms, rather than fill them online. This is
> hurting our work flow - obviously the more people use the online
> complaint forms the better. Any ideas/suggestions on how to have more
> people use the online forms?
> http://www.ombudsman.on.ca/en/make-a-complaint.aspx
> Thank you, and I apologize if this question is off-topic, or
> inappropriate.
> (x-posted from torcamp, as per suggestion from the group)
> --
> Elena Yunusov
> (416) 817-6296
> elena.yunu...@gmail.com
1. For one you can "only" give the online option. (no downloadable PDF)
2. To be honest the Complaint Form button over to the left "tricked me" as a Title. The right options were clearly more obvious.
3. Switch them, or even move the PDF buttons to the bottom of the page.
4. Try using PDF forms that the user just enters the information into then "Submit" content via email (custom built in feature - see more on Adobe LifeCycle Designer) - we use somethiing similar for ordering internal documents. One PDF with fields and a send/submit button at the bottom.
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 08:59:39 -0700
> Subject: [UXIrregulars] need navigation/design advice, apologies if this is off-topic
> From: elena.yunu...@gmail.com
> To: UXIrregulars@googlegroups.com
> I work for the Ontario Ombudsman's office, and I'm noticing that when
> people come to the complaints page on our site, they tend to print out
> and mail complaint forms, rather than fill them online. This is
> hurting our work flow - obviously the more people use the online
> complaint forms the better. Any ideas/suggestions on how to have more
> people use the online forms?
> http://www.ombudsman.on.ca/en/make-a-complaint.aspx
> Thank you, and I apologize if this question is off-topic, or
> inappropriate.
> (x-posted from torcamp, as per suggestion from the group)
> --
> Elena Yunusov
> (416) 817-6296
> elena.yunu...@gmail.com
I think there are emotional issues that need to be addressed. A complaint to the Ombuds office is likely about a complicated and "unfair" matter, lots of detail, a situation that's out of control and that has a history from before contact with the Ombuds office begins.
People may want paper records because it represents "proof" or "control" or it may be that something as complex as a complaint takes thought ... and time. (We've likely all had the experience of an online form that times out and discards all your work.) Or it may be perceived as impersonal, or "even more hoop-jumping" because the client isn't starting with the online form; this form may be the start of the last or second-last stage in a very lengthy and frustrating experience.
Once the emotional issues are understood, the process can be designed to accommodate those needs.
Echoing a bit of what someone else said: my eye jumps immediately to the PDF button on the right, and I barely noticed the button on the left. The button on the left actually looks more like a navigation feature (a heading) to me rather than a button in this context. It perhaps should be presented as the first button on the right with additional clues as others have mentioned.
I also notice in the text itself the mention "File a complaint online" actually looks like a heading rather than a link. For anyone who still reads all the way down the page, it says:
Great comments from everyone so far. A few more thoughts:
* One form or three?
One more point: it looks like you actually have three forms. For the
pdfs it's clear that there are three options (though what each one
refers to may not be so clear). With the online complaint form button,
a user doesn't know until clicking that they will be choosing among
three forms. Maybe start with the user needs each of these address,
and organize the presentation around that. Then offer the
* Form=short?
Another thing that is not clear from the presentation is that the form
contains multiple steps. Perhaps the form has the depth to address
some of the richness that Jerome has pointed out, but the initial
online complaint button, and the subsequent two screens, don't give a
sense of what will happen next and whether the form will address a
user's requirements.
> I work for the Ontario Ombudsman's office, and I'm noticing that when
> people come to the complaints page on our site, they tend to print out
> and mail complaint forms, rather than fill them online. This is
> hurting our work flow - obviously the more people use the online
> complaint forms the better. Any ideas/suggestions on how to have more
> people use the online forms?
> http://www.ombudsman.on.ca/en/make-a-complaint.aspx
> Thank you, and I apologize if this question is off-topic, or
> inappropriate.
> (x-posted from torcamp, as per suggestion from the group)
> --
> Elena Yunusov
> (416) 817-6296
> elena.yunu...@gmail.com
I agree with Connie...in fact, the so called "button" doesn't even
look like a button at all, hence why most people would think it's a
heading, myself included.
On another note, assuming people are actually clicking on the
"Complaint Form" link, Step #2 asks for a lot of personal information,
and it'ss not secure. In my opinion, I would stop immediately, go
back and print out the PDF, and mail it.
On Jul 2, 12:39 pm, Connie Crosby <conniecro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Echoing a bit of what someone else said: my eye jumps immediately to the
> PDF button on the right, and I barely noticed the button on the left. The
> button on the left actually looks more like a navigation feature (a heading)
> to me rather than a button in this context. It perhaps should be presented
> as the first button on the right with additional clues as others have
> mentioned.
Besides the obvious emphasizing and de-emphasizing of elements, there are
copy problems too. "COMPLAINT FORM" screams "indifferent bureaucracy". "File
a complaint" gives me the sense that I'm being buried in a beige steel
cabinet somewhere. Adding state could mitigate this; let me "open" a
complaint that can be acknowledged, responded to, completed, etc.
On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Jerome Ryckborst
<Jer...@fivesketches.com>wrote:
> I think there are emotional issues that need to be addressed. A complaint
> to the Ombuds office is likely about a complicated and "unfair" matter, lots
> of detail, a situation that's out of control and that has a history from
> before contact with the Ombuds office begins.
> People may want paper records because it represents "proof" or "control" or
> it may be that something as complex as a complaint takes thought ... and
> time. (We've likely all had the experience of an online form that times out
> and discards all your work.) Or it may be perceived as impersonal, or "even
> more hoop-jumping" because the client isn't starting with the online form;
> this form may be the start of the last or second-last stage in a very
> lengthy and frustrating experience.
> Once the emotional issues are understood, the process can be designed to
> accommodate those needs.
On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Avi Soudack<a...@brightroom.ca> wrote: > * Form=short? > Another thing that is not clear from the presentation is that the form > contains multiple steps.
For sure. I'd put all the form fields on one page: people don't mind scrolling these days, and it allows them to see everything at once.
Also, there's a message right before you submit the form that says if you want to have a printout you'd better get it now. This is a bit unusual: typically, you submit the form first (perhaps with a screen asking you to review your data), and then you get a printable record of what you submitted.
The original question wasn't clear: is it these printouts that people are bringing you, or hand-filled printouts of the PDF form?
Kivi
Kivi Shapiro Interaction Designer Qualicom Innovations Inc. 416 492-3833
Thank you all for the ideas, suggestions, and feedback! Much appreciated!
The more people complain to our office the better :) Please if anyone here
needs help with something, just let me know. Thank you
On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:53 PM, R.T. <rtlec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Agreed.
> Besides the obvious emphasizing and de-emphasizing of elements, there are
> copy problems too. "COMPLAINT FORM" screams "indifferent bureaucracy". "File
> a complaint" gives me the sense that I'm being buried in a beige steel
> cabinet somewhere. Adding state could mitigate this; let me "open" a
> complaint that can be acknowledged, responded to, completed, etc.
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Jerome Ryckborst <Jer...@fivesketches.com
> > wrote:
>> I think there are emotional issues that need to be addressed. A complaint
>> to the Ombuds office is likely about a complicated and "unfair" matter, lots
>> of detail, a situation that's out of control and that has a history from
>> before contact with the Ombuds office begins.
>> People may want paper records because it represents "proof" or "control"
>> or it may be that something as complex as a complaint takes thought ... and
>> time. (We've likely all had the experience of an online form that times out
>> and discards all your work.) Or it may be perceived as impersonal, or "even
>> more hoop-jumping" because the client isn't starting with the online form;
>> this form may be the start of the last or second-last stage in a very
>> lengthy and frustrating experience.
>> Once the emotional issues are understood, the process can be designed to
>> accommodate those needs.
A couple of points here, one of which may not be viewed favourably,
but here goes just the same...
Firstly, although I applaud Elena for trying to do the right thing for
her users, and for those that provided some insight to Elena, I feel
that this is a forum for UX professionals only. If everyone out there
that had a UX related question they wanted answered, and posted it
here, things would would get out of control and the UX of this
community would become so unfavourable that many would leave.
The second post, from Brett, indicates that Elena's office has engaged
his services in either a paid or non-paid arrangement. Therefore, my
suggestion would be that Brett would have been better off fielding the
question (wrapped in a whole bunch of context) to this community of
his peers for some additional insight, if he felt he needed it.
Secondly, I totally agree with Jerome, that there are larger
psychological issues at play here that need to be addressed before any
general usability methodology can be applied. Maybe a content strategy
assessment also needs to take place in order to provide additional
input on how best to ease the users minds, before presenting
interaction options. A very interesting project indeed! One that needs
a budget and a professional(s) assigned to it.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Shawn
_____________________________
On Jul 2, 10:58 am, Elena Yunusov <elena.yunu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you all for the ideas, suggestions, and feedback! Much appreciated!
> The more people complain to our office the better :) Please if anyone here
> needs help with something, just let me know. Thank you
> Elena.
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:53 PM, R.T. <rtlec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Agreed.
> > Besides the obvious emphasizing and de-emphasizing of elements, there are
> > copy problems too. "COMPLAINT FORM" screams "indifferent bureaucracy". "File
> > a complaint" gives me the sense that I'm being buried in a beige steel
> > cabinet somewhere. Adding state could mitigate this; let me "open" a
> > complaint that can be acknowledged, responded to, completed, etc.
> > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Jerome Ryckborst <Jer...@fivesketches.com
> > > wrote:
> >> I think there are emotional issues that need to be addressed. A complaint
> >> to the Ombuds office is likely about a complicated and "unfair" matter, lots
> >> of detail, a situation that's out of control and that has a history from
> >> before contact with the Ombuds office begins.
> >> People may want paper records because it represents "proof" or "control"
> >> or it may be that something as complex as a complaint takes thought ... and
> >> time. (We've likely all had the experience of an online form that times out
> >> and discards all your work.) Or it may be perceived as impersonal, or "even
> >> more hoop-jumping" because the client isn't starting with the online form;
> >> this form may be the start of the last or second-last stage in a very
> >> lengthy and frustrating experience.
> >> Once the emotional issues are understood, the process can be designed to
> >> accommodate those needs.
Hi Shawn,
I appreciate your 2 cents! Just wanted to clarify that our office didn't
"engage Brett's services in either a paid or non-paid arrangement." He just
let me know about this group, and was being helpful, like the rest of people
here and on the torcamp mailing list. I took his suggestion and x-posted my
question here. Everyone's suggestions have been invaluable, and I am
grateful for the feedback! Apologies if my post was inappropriate for this
group.
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Shawn Mabey <sma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Good day,
> A couple of points here, one of which may not be viewed favourably,
> but here goes just the same...
> Firstly, although I applaud Elena for trying to do the right thing for
> her users, and for those that provided some insight to Elena, I feel
> that this is a forum for UX professionals only. If everyone out there
> that had a UX related question they wanted answered, and posted it
> here, things would would get out of control and the UX of this
> community would become so unfavourable that many would leave.
> The second post, from Brett, indicates that Elena's office has engaged
> his services in either a paid or non-paid arrangement. Therefore, my
> suggestion would be that Brett would have been better off fielding the
> question (wrapped in a whole bunch of context) to this community of
> his peers for some additional insight, if he felt he needed it.
> Secondly, I totally agree with Jerome, that there are larger
> psychological issues at play here that need to be addressed before any
> general usability methodology can be applied. Maybe a content strategy
> assessment also needs to take place in order to provide additional
> input on how best to ease the users minds, before presenting
> interaction options. A very interesting project indeed! One that needs
> a budget and a professional(s) assigned to it.
> My $0.02.
> Cheers,
> Shawn
> _____________________________
> On Jul 2, 10:58 am, Elena Yunusov <elena.yunu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thank you all for the ideas, suggestions, and feedback! Much appreciated!
> > The more people complain to our office the better :) Please if anyone
> here
> > needs help with something, just let me know. Thank you
> > Elena.
> > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:53 PM, R.T. <rtlec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Agreed.
> > > Besides the obvious emphasizing and de-emphasizing of elements, there
> are
> > > copy problems too. "COMPLAINT FORM" screams "indifferent bureaucracy".
> "File
> > > a complaint" gives me the sense that I'm being buried in a beige steel
> > > cabinet somewhere. Adding state could mitigate this; let me "open" a
> > > complaint that can be acknowledged, responded to, completed, etc.
> > >> I think there are emotional issues that need to be addressed. A
> complaint
> > >> to the Ombuds office is likely about a complicated and "unfair"
> matter, lots
> > >> of detail, a situation that's out of control and that has a history
> from
> > >> before contact with the Ombuds office begins.
> > >> People may want paper records because it represents "proof" or
> "control"
> > >> or it may be that something as complex as a complaint takes thought
> ... and
> > >> time. (We've likely all had the experience of an online form that
> times out
> > >> and discards all your work.) Or it may be perceived as impersonal, or
> "even
> > >> more hoop-jumping" because the client isn't starting with the online
> form;
> > >> this form may be the start of the last or second-last stage in a very
> > >> lengthy and frustrating experience.
> > >> Once the emotional issues are understood, the process can be designed
> to
> > >> accommodate those needs.
We're a UX community group. This is what we're supposed to do: help each other with UX questions. If we can't open up and share ideas to help the wider UX community, what's the point? This is the most valuable thing about the group for me.
And, Elena is a UX professional - she's engaged in designing a system to be used by people. My 2 cents:)
Thanks,
Lindsay
________________________________
From: Elena Yunusov <elena.yunu...@gmail.com>
To: Shawn Mabey <sma...@gmail.com>
Cc: UXIrregulars <UXIrregulars@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 3, 2009 11:11:51 AM
Subject: [UXIrregulars] Re: need navigation/design advice, apologies if this is off-topic
Hi Shawn,
I appreciate your 2 cents! Just wanted to clarify that our office didn't "engage Brett's services in either a paid or non-paid arrangement." He just let me know about this group, and was being helpful, like the rest of people here and on the torcamp mailing list. I took his suggestion and x-posted my question here. Everyone's suggestions have been invaluable, and I am grateful for the feedback! Apologies if my post was inappropriate for this group.
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Shawn Mabey <sma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Good day,
>>A couple of points here, one of which may not be viewed favourably,
>>but here goes just the same...
>>Firstly, although I applaud Elena for trying to do the right thing for
>>her users, and for those that provided some insight to Elena, I feel
>>that this is a forum for UX professionals only. If everyone out there
>>that had a UX related question they wanted answered, and posted it
>>here, things would would get out of control and the UX of this
>>community would become so unfavourable that many would leave.
>>The second post, from Brett, indicates that Elena's office has engaged
>>his services in either a paid or non-paid arrangement. Therefore, my
>>suggestion would be that Brett would have been better off fielding the
>>question (wrapped in a whole bunch of context) to this community of
>>his peers for some additional insight, if he felt he needed it.
>>Secondly, I totally agree with Jerome, that there are larger
>>psychological issues at play here that need to be addressed before any
>>general usability methodology can be applied. Maybe a content strategy
>>assessment also needs to take place in order to provide additional
>>input on how best to ease the users minds, before presenting
>>interaction options. A very interesting project indeed! One that needs
>>a budget and a professional(s) assigned to it.
>>My $0.02.
>>Cheers,
>>Shawn
>>_____________________________
>>On Jul 2, 10:58 am, Elena Yunusov <elena.yunu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Thank you all for the ideas, suggestions, and feedback! Much appreciated!
>>> The more people complain to our office the better :) Please if anyone here
>>> needs help with something, just let me know. Thank you
>>> Elena.
>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:53 PM, R.T. <rtlec...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Agreed.
>>> > Besides the obvious emphasizing and de-emphasizing of elements, there are
>>> > copy problems too. "COMPLAINT FORM" screams "indifferent bureaucracy". "File
>>> > a complaint" gives me the sense that I'm being buried in a beige steel
>>> > cabinet somewhere. Adding state could mitigate this; let me "open" a
>>> > complaint that can be acknowledged, responded to, completed, etc.
>> > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Jerome Ryckborst <Jer...@fivesketches.com
>> > > wrote:
>>> >> I think there are emotional issues that need to be addressed. A complaint
>>> >> to the Ombuds office is likely about a complicated and "unfair" matter, lots
>>> >> of detail, a situation that's out of control and that has a history from
>>> >> before contact with the Ombuds office begins.
>>> >> People may want paper records because it represents "proof" or "control"
>>> >> or it may be that something as complex as a complaint takes thought ... and
>>> >> time. (We've likely all had the experience of an online form that times out
>>> >> and discards all your work.) Or it may be perceived as impersonal, or "even
>>> >> more hoop-jumping" because the client isn't starting with the online form;
>>> >> this form may be the start of the last or second-last stage in a very
>>> >> lengthy and frustrating experience.
>>> >> Once the emotional issues are understood, the process can be designed to
>>> >> accommodate those needs.
Well, maybe I should end my subscription then.
I joined specifically because this is a local group and to share thoughts and ideas, and this can only be done by having questions (a forum).
Not sure what is meant by "UX professionals only" does that mean professionals have no questions?
Maybe I should just stick to IxDA where I can ask and contribute to questions freely.
My $250.05
> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 07:35:39 -0700
> Subject: [UXIrregulars] Re: need navigation/design advice, apologies if this is off-topic
> From: sma...@gmail.com
> To: UXIrregulars@googlegroups.com
> Good day,
> A couple of points here, one of which may not be viewed favourably,
> but here goes just the same...
> Firstly, although I applaud Elena for trying to do the right thing for
> her users, and for those that provided some insight to Elena, I feel
> that this is a forum for UX professionals only. If everyone out there
> that had a UX related question they wanted answered, and posted it
> here, things would would get out of control and the UX of this
> community would become so unfavourable that many would leave.
> The second post, from Brett, indicates that Elena's office has engaged
> his services in either a paid or non-paid arrangement. Therefore, my
> suggestion would be that Brett would have been better off fielding the
> question (wrapped in a whole bunch of context) to this community of
> his peers for some additional insight, if he felt he needed it.
> Secondly, I totally agree with Jerome, that there are larger
> psychological issues at play here that need to be addressed before any
> general usability methodology can be applied. Maybe a content strategy
> assessment also needs to take place in order to provide additional
> input on how best to ease the users minds, before presenting
> interaction options. A very interesting project indeed! One that needs
> a budget and a professional(s) assigned to it.
> My $0.02.
> Cheers,
> Shawn
> _____________________________
> On Jul 2, 10:58 am, Elena Yunusov <elena.yunu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thank you all for the ideas, suggestions, and feedback! Much appreciated!
> > The more people complain to our office the better :) Please if anyone here
> > needs help with something, just let me know. Thank you
> > Elena.
> > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:53 PM, R.T. <rtlec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Agreed.
> > > Besides the obvious emphasizing and de-emphasizing of elements, there are
> > > copy problems too. "COMPLAINT FORM" screams "indifferent bureaucracy". "File
> > > a complaint" gives me the sense that I'm being buried in a beige steel
> > > cabinet somewhere. Adding state could mitigate this; let me "open" a
> > > complaint that can be acknowledged, responded to, completed, etc.
> > > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Jerome Ryckborst <Jer...@fivesketches.com
> > > > wrote:
> > >> I think there are emotional issues that need to be addressed. A complaint
> > >> to the Ombuds office is likely about a complicated and "unfair" matter, lots
> > >> of detail, a situation that's out of control and that has a history from
> > >> before contact with the Ombuds office begins.
> > >> People may want paper records because it represents "proof" or "control"
> > >> or it may be that something as complex as a complaint takes thought ... and
> > >> time. (We've likely all had the experience of an online form that times out
> > >> and discards all your work.) Or it may be perceived as impersonal, or "even
> > >> more hoop-jumping" because the client isn't starting with the online form;
> > >> this form may be the start of the last or second-last stage in a very
> > >> lengthy and frustrating experience.
> > >> Once the emotional issues are understood, the process can be designed to
> > >> accommodate those needs.
Back when this group started, it was just a bunch of people connecting
with other community members and helping each other out. I don't think
that this has changed.
The Irregulars were never expected to compete with TorCHI, IAI, IxDA,
UXNet, Toronto Interacts or any other group. It's not even a
meta-group. There's no charter here; not every
practitioner/professional group needs rules to get all dogmatic about.
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 11:38 AM, Lindsay Ellerby<ellerb...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> We're a UX community group. This is what we're supposed to do: help each
> other with UX questions. If we can't open up and share ideas to help the
> wider UX community, what's the point? This is the most valuable thing about
> the group for me.
> And, Elena is a UX professional - she's engaged in designing a system to be
> used by people. My 2 cents:)
> Thanks,
> Lindsay
> ________________________________
> From: Elena Yunusov <elena.yunu...@gmail.com>
> To: Shawn Mabey <sma...@gmail.com>
> Cc: UXIrregulars <UXIrregulars@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 3, 2009 11:11:51 AM
> Subject: [UXIrregulars] Re: need navigation/design advice, apologies if this
> is off-topic
> Hi Shawn,
> I appreciate your 2 cents! Just wanted to clarify that our office didn't
> "engage Brett's services in either a paid or non-paid arrangement." He just
> let me know about this group, and was being helpful, like the rest of people
> here and on the torcamp mailing list. I took his suggestion and x-posted my
> question here. Everyone's suggestions have been invaluable, and I am
> grateful for the feedback! Apologies if my post was inappropriate for this
> group.
> Elena.
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Shawn Mabey <sma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Good day,
>> A couple of points here, one of which may not be viewed favourably,
>> but here goes just the same...
>> Firstly, although I applaud Elena for trying to do the right thing for
>> her users, and for those that provided some insight to Elena, I feel
>> that this is a forum for UX professionals only. If everyone out there
>> that had a UX related question they wanted answered, and posted it
>> here, things would would get out of control and the UX of this
>> community would become so unfavourable that many would leave.
>> The second post, from Brett, indicates that Elena's office has engaged
>> his services in either a paid or non-paid arrangement. Therefore, my
>> suggestion would be that Brett would have been better off fielding the
>> question (wrapped in a whole bunch of context) to this community of
>> his peers for some additional insight, if he felt he needed it.
>> Secondly, I totally agree with Jerome, that there are larger
>> psychological issues at play here that need to be addressed before any
>> general usability methodology can be applied. Maybe a content strategy
>> assessment also needs to take place in order to provide additional
>> input on how best to ease the users minds, before presenting
>> interaction options. A very interesting project indeed! One that needs
>> a budget and a professional(s) assigned to it.
>> My $0.02.
>> Cheers,
>> Shawn
>> _____________________________
>> On Jul 2, 10:58 am, Elena Yunusov <elena.yunu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Thank you all for the ideas, suggestions, and feedback! Much
>> > appreciated!
>> > The more people complain to our office the better :) Please if anyone
>> > here
>> > needs help with something, just let me know. Thank you
>> > Elena.
>> > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:53 PM, R.T. <rtlec...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > Agreed.
>> > > Besides the obvious emphasizing and de-emphasizing of elements, there
>> > > are
>> > > copy problems too. "COMPLAINT FORM" screams "indifferent bureaucracy".
>> > > "File
>> > > a complaint" gives me the sense that I'm being buried in a beige steel
>> > > cabinet somewhere. Adding state could mitigate this; let me "open" a
>> > > complaint that can be acknowledged, responded to, completed, etc.
>> > >> I think there are emotional issues that need to be addressed. A
>> > >> complaint
>> > >> to the Ombuds office is likely about a complicated and "unfair"
>> > >> matter, lots
>> > >> of detail, a situation that's out of control and that has a history
>> > >> from
>> > >> before contact with the Ombuds office begins.
>> > >> People may want paper records because it represents "proof" or
>> > >> "control"
>> > >> or it may be that something as complex as a complaint takes thought
>> > >> ... and
>> > >> time. (We've likely all had the experience of an online form that
>> > >> times out
>> > >> and discards all your work.) Or it may be perceived as impersonal, or
>> > >> "even
>> > >> more hoop-jumping" because the client isn't starting with the online
>> > >> form;
>> > >> this form may be the start of the last or second-last stage in a very
>> > >> lengthy and frustrating experience.
>> > >> Once the emotional issues are understood, the process can be designed
>> > >> to
>> > >> accommodate those needs.
UX Irregulars was conceived as an open group, in part, due to the
closed and exclusionary nature of some of the more formal
organizations.
UX Irregulars is a group for everyone who is interested in user
experience design and interested in being part of this community,
whether you are an information architect, an interaction designer, a
developer, researcher, or anyone else who touches UX. Having a formal
UX role isn't a requirement to participate.
Shawn: Your concern about the hypothetical situation of the group
"getting out of control" is the reason why we have managers like
Lindsay, Matthew and me. If you ever see a problem please send a note
and one of the managers will address it in a timely manner. We don't
want this group to descend to the level of of Usenet group either, but
we haven't come anywhere close to that point in the last few years.
Maurice: If being part of a local group to share thoughts and ideas is
what you are looking for then this is the place for you. As long as
posts are respectful and UX-related, they are welcome here.
Part of the fun in UX and UXI is the diverse range of ideas and
opinions. As UX practitioners we should encourage the interest of
those who are outside of our collective field to help spread the ideas
that we all work so hard to make a reality. Let's continue in that
tradition.
Thanks,
Kaleem
On Jul 3, 11:56 am, Maurice Carty <mo_vi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Well, maybe I should end my subscription then.
> I joined specifically because this is a local group and to share thoughts and ideas, and this can only be done by having questions (a forum).
> Not sure what is meant by "UX professionals only" does that mean professionals have no questions?
> Maybe I should just stick to IxDA where I can ask and contribute to questions freely.
> My $250.05
> > Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 07:35:39 -0700
> > Subject: [UXIrregulars] Re: need navigation/design advice, apologies if this is off-topic
> > From: sma...@gmail.com
> > To: UXIrregulars@googlegroups.com
> > Good day,
> > A couple of points here, one of which may not be viewed favourably,
> > but here goes just the same...
> > Firstly, although I applaud Elena for trying to do the right thing for
> > her users, and for those that provided some insight to Elena, I feel
> > that this is a forum for UX professionals only. If everyone out there
> > that had a UX related question they wanted answered, and posted it
> > here, things would would get out of control and the UX of this
> > community would become so unfavourable that many would leave.
> > The second post, from Brett, indicates that Elena's office has engaged
> > his services in either a paid or non-paid arrangement. Therefore, my
> > suggestion would be that Brett would have been better off fielding the
> > question (wrapped in a whole bunch of context) to this community of
> > his peers for some additional insight, if he felt he needed it.
> > Secondly, I totally agree with Jerome, that there are larger
> > psychological issues at play here that need to be addressed before any
> > general usability methodology can be applied. Maybe a content strategy
> > assessment also needs to take place in order to provide additional
> > input on how best to ease the users minds, before presenting
> > interaction options. A very interesting project indeed! One that needs
> > a budget and a professional(s) assigned to it.
> > My $0.02.
> > Cheers,
> > Shawn
> > _____________________________
> > On Jul 2, 10:58 am, Elena Yunusov <elena.yunu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Thank you all for the ideas, suggestions, and feedback! Much appreciated!
> > > The more people complain to our office the better :) Please if anyone here
> > > needs help with something, just let me know. Thank you
> > > Elena.
> > > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:53 PM, R.T. <rtlec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Agreed.
> > > > Besides the obvious emphasizing and de-emphasizing of elements, there are
> > > > copy problems too. "COMPLAINT FORM" screams "indifferent bureaucracy". "File
> > > > a complaint" gives me the sense that I'm being buried in a beige steel
> > > > cabinet somewhere. Adding state could mitigate this; let me "open" a
> > > > complaint that can be acknowledged, responded to, completed, etc.
> > > >> I think there are emotional issues that need to be addressed. A complaint
> > > >> to the Ombuds office is likely about a complicated and "unfair" matter, lots
> > > >> of detail, a situation that's out of control and that has a history from
> > > >> before contact with the Ombuds office begins.
> > > >> People may want paper records because it represents "proof" or "control"
> > > >> or it may be that something as complex as a complaint takes thought ... and
> > > >> time. (We've likely all had the experience of an online form that times out
> > > >> and discards all your work.) Or it may be perceived as impersonal, or "even
> > > >> more hoop-jumping" because the client isn't starting with the online form;
> > > >> this form may be the start of the last or second-last stage in a very
> > > >> lengthy and frustrating experience.
> > > >> Once the emotional issues are understood, the process can be designed to
> > > >> accommodate those needs.
> Back when this group started, it was just a bunch of people connecting > with other community members and helping each other out. I don't think > that this has changed.
> The Irregulars were never expected to compete with TorCHI, IAI, IxDA, > UXNet, Toronto Interacts or any other group. It's not even a > meta-group. There's no charter here; not every > practitioner/professional group needs rules to get all dogmatic about.
> Everything and anything related to UX is welcome here, as long as it's > respectful and tolerant of individual members and the membership as a > whole.
> Matthew
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 11:38 AM, Lindsay Ellerby<ellerb...@yahoo.ca> > wrote: >> We're a UX community group. This is what we're supposed to do: help >> each >> other with UX questions. If we can't open up and share ideas to >> help the >> wider UX community, what's the point? This is the most valuable >> thing about >> the group for me.
>> And, Elena is a UX professional - she's engaged in designing a >> system to be >> used by people. My 2 cents:)
On Behalf Of Avi Soudack
Sent: Fri, 3 July, 2009 9:34 AM
To: UXIrregulars UXIrregulars
Cc: Lindsay Ellerby; Elena Yunusov; Shawn Mabey; Matthew Milan
Subject: [UXIrregulars] Re: need navigation/design advice, apologies if this
is off-topic
Matthew and Lindsay have summed up my feelings perfectly. [Nice]
I'll only add:
1) It doesn't even cost 2 cents 'to join'. [Bargain]
2) Don't be shy about speaking out - even if "it may not be viewed
favourably". [Dialogue, Growth, Healthy]
/avi
On 3-Jul-09, at 12:13 PM, Matthew Milan wrote:
> I'm agreeing with Lindsay here,
> Back when this group started, it was just a bunch of people connecting
> with other community members and helping each other out. I don't think
> that this has changed.
> The Irregulars were never expected to compete with TorCHI, IAI, IxDA,
> UXNet, Toronto Interacts or any other group. It's not even a
> meta-group. There's no charter here; not every
> practitioner/professional group needs rules to get all dogmatic about.
> Everything and anything related to UX is welcome here, as long as it's
> respectful and tolerant of individual members and the membership as a
> whole.
> Matthew
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 11:38 AM, Lindsay Ellerby<ellerb...@yahoo.ca>
> wrote:
>> We're a UX community group. This is what we're supposed to do: help
>> each
>> other with UX questions. If we can't open up and share ideas to
>> help the
>> wider UX community, what's the point? This is the most valuable
>> thing about
>> the group for me.
>> And, Elena is a UX professional - she's engaged in designing a
>> system to be
>> used by people. My 2 cents:)
I just finished reading a book called "Unanticipated Gains," which was an investigation into the effects of daycare centres in New York. What does that have to do with the UX List?
Well turns out that many benefits emerged from being associated with a daycare centre (more even than having individual friends at the daycare centre like other parents).
Elena's question is really this principle in action. Brett tells her about the list. She joins the list. She gets information from the community that she wouldn't normally get access to. And, turns out, this information is for the public good, i.e., the Ombudsman of Ontario. Wow, that's amazing!
So this list's purpose was to connect UX peeps in an informal way and then it provided "unanticipated gains," (see, you knew I'd get back to it) that helped people.
Imagine if instead the purpose of this list was, say, like a list of the Canadian Medical Association. The CMA does not invite "hey doc, I have this thing with my shoulder..." type questions. So losers like you and me don't benefit from its existence and it provides gains only for doctors. Great, you say, they fund it. Bully for them.
The question is: are we a daycare centre or the CMA? I kind of like the daycare centre example 'cause I'm narcissistic and I'd like to think I'm helping people. Others may like the CMA 'cause they're greedy. Whatever.
I have been on lists in the past that degraded over time when the
doors were flung open. This community has been well managed and I
should have run with that history rather than the assumption that won
out.
All the best with your project, and as others have noted, I look
forward to seeing the after state.
Cheers,
Shawn
On Jul 3, 8:11 am, Elena Yunusov <elena.yunu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Shawn,
> I appreciate your 2 cents! Just wanted to clarify that our office didn't
> "engage Brett's services in either a paid or non-paid arrangement." He just
> let me know about this group, and was being helpful, like the rest of people
> here and on the torcamp mailing list. I took his suggestion and x-posted my
> question here. Everyone's suggestions have been invaluable, and I am
> grateful for the feedback! Apologies if my post was inappropriate for this
> group.
> Elena.
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Shawn Mabey <sma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Good day,
> > A couple of points here, one of which may not be viewed favourably,
> > but here goes just the same...
> > Firstly, although I applaud Elena for trying to do the right thing for
> > her users, and for those that provided some insight to Elena, I feel
> > that this is a forum for UX professionals only. If everyone out there
> > that had a UX related question they wanted answered, and posted it
> > here, things would would get out of control and the UX of this
> > community would become so unfavourable that many would leave.
> > The second post, from Brett, indicates that Elena's office has engaged
> > his services in either a paid or non-paid arrangement. Therefore, my
> > suggestion would be that Brett would have been better off fielding the
> > question (wrapped in a whole bunch of context) to this community of
> > his peers for some additional insight, if he felt he needed it.
> > Secondly, I totally agree with Jerome, that there are larger
> > psychological issues at play here that need to be addressed before any
> > general usability methodology can be applied. Maybe a content strategy
> > assessment also needs to take place in order to provide additional
> > input on how best to ease the users minds, before presenting
> > interaction options. A very interesting project indeed! One that needs
> > a budget and a professional(s) assigned to it.
> > My $0.02.
> > Cheers,
> > Shawn
> > _____________________________
> > On Jul 2, 10:58 am, Elena Yunusov <elena.yunu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Thank you all for the ideas, suggestions, and feedback! Much appreciated!
> > > The more people complain to our office the better :) Please if anyone
> > here
> > > needs help with something, just let me know. Thank you
> > > Elena.
> > > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:53 PM, R.T. <rtlec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Agreed.
> > > > Besides the obvious emphasizing and de-emphasizing of elements, there
> > are
> > > > copy problems too. "COMPLAINT FORM" screams "indifferent bureaucracy".
> > "File
> > > > a complaint" gives me the sense that I'm being buried in a beige steel
> > > > cabinet somewhere. Adding state could mitigate this; let me "open" a
> > > > complaint that can be acknowledged, responded to, completed, etc.
> > > >> I think there are emotional issues that need to be addressed. A
> > complaint
> > > >> to the Ombuds office is likely about a complicated and "unfair"
> > matter, lots
> > > >> of detail, a situation that's out of control and that has a history
> > from
> > > >> before contact with the Ombuds office begins.
> > > >> People may want paper records because it represents "proof" or
> > "control"
> > > >> or it may be that something as complex as a complaint takes thought
> > ... and
> > > >> time. (We've likely all had the experience of an online form that
> > times out
> > > >> and discards all your work.) Or it may be perceived as impersonal, or
> > "even
> > > >> more hoop-jumping" because the client isn't starting with the online
> > form;
> > > >> this form may be the start of the last or second-last stage in a very
> > > >> lengthy and frustrating experience.
> > > >> Once the emotional issues are understood, the process can be designed
> > to
> > > >> accommodate those needs.
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