Trills and chills.
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Carl Anderton
Jul 9, 2008, 8:22:18 PM7/9/08
to Minstrel Banjo
Page 61. Frank Converse green tutor. Luke West's Walk Around. B
part, measure 4. A trill.
How do YOU play that?
The instructions say "Stop B, on second string, trill with the 1st and
2nd strings."
The best best I can do is a series of triplets. Who's got somethin'
else?
part, measure 4. A trill.
How do YOU play that?
The instructions say "Stop B, on second string, trill with the 1st and
2nd strings."
The best best I can do is a series of triplets. Who's got somethin'
else?
Banjovi
Jul 10, 2008, 7:02:23 PM7/10/08
to Minstrel Banjo
I have never been able to execute that trill to my satisfaction. Joe
Ayres does it perfectly on his recording, and I'm damned if I can
figure out how he nails it. It seems to be the dragging of the index
finger nail across 1st and 2nd strings, with the aforementioned stop
on B, in a triplet fashion I suppose. Listen to how Joe does it. This
is probably for me the only technical difficulty I have not been able
to decipher........grrrrrrrrrrr.....it's a work in progress!
Ayres does it perfectly on his recording, and I'm damned if I can
figure out how he nails it. It seems to be the dragging of the index
finger nail across 1st and 2nd strings, with the aforementioned stop
on B, in a triplet fashion I suppose. Listen to how Joe does it. This
is probably for me the only technical difficulty I have not been able
to decipher........grrrrrrrrrrr.....it's a work in progress!
Banjovi
Jul 10, 2008, 7:29:52 PM7/10/08
to Minstrel Banjo
I ran upstairs to the banjo room to try that passage again, and it
seems to be index nail upwards against 1st and 2nd strings(with 2nd
string fretted at unison with 1st)followed by thumb on 2nd, all in
uniform spacing, 4 times.
seems to be index nail upwards against 1st and 2nd strings(with 2nd
string fretted at unison with 1st)followed by thumb on 2nd, all in
uniform spacing, 4 times.
trapdoor2
Jul 11, 2008, 5:55:40 PM7/11/08
to Minstrel Banjo
Look in the files for a .pdf of my interpretation...not that I can
play that trill yet. I would "stop" A on 2nd string (index) and C# on
1st (ring) in the standard "first" position. Then, I'd pick up the B
(second string) with my pinky and starting with the finger on the 1st
string, go F-X-F-X-F-X-F-X...ending with a pull-off to finish the
trill. This is outlined on page 12 of the Green book. The trill
itself is C#-B-C#-B, etc. Is that how you're playing it?
Naturally, I don't have a copy of Joe playing it...would love to hear
it.
===Marc
play that trill yet. I would "stop" A on 2nd string (index) and C# on
1st (ring) in the standard "first" position. Then, I'd pick up the B
(second string) with my pinky and starting with the finger on the 1st
string, go F-X-F-X-F-X-F-X...ending with a pull-off to finish the
trill. This is outlined on page 12 of the Green book. The trill
itself is C#-B-C#-B, etc. Is that how you're playing it?
Naturally, I don't have a copy of Joe playing it...would love to hear
it.
===Marc
Banjovi
Jul 27, 2008, 1:52:13 PM7/27/08
to Minstrel Banjo
Rosemary and I sat down and discussed the author's intent on this
trill business, and we came up with this. The note in question does
indeed have the trill sign over it, indicating playing a trill as
outlined by Converse on page 12, where he discusses the turn and the
trill. This is all well and fine and musically correct. Where things
get interesting is when you refer to the footnote underneath the trill
measure in question on page 61. It states" Stop B,on 2nd string, trill
with 1st and 2nd strings". Which means you play a trill on unison
notes, a B, on the 1st and 2nd strings. The footnote would supercede
the normal way of playing a trill, ie. starting on a C in this case
and alternating CBCBCBCBCB as needed during the given note length. So,
it must be BBBBBBBB!! Have fun, Carl, we will be rocking this one
at EABGIII.........along with all the others!
trill business, and we came up with this. The note in question does
indeed have the trill sign over it, indicating playing a trill as
outlined by Converse on page 12, where he discusses the turn and the
trill. This is all well and fine and musically correct. Where things
get interesting is when you refer to the footnote underneath the trill
measure in question on page 61. It states" Stop B,on 2nd string, trill
with 1st and 2nd strings". Which means you play a trill on unison
notes, a B, on the 1st and 2nd strings. The footnote would supercede
the normal way of playing a trill, ie. starting on a C in this case
and alternating CBCBCBCBCB as needed during the given note length. So,
it must be BBBBBBBB!! Have fun, Carl, we will be rocking this one
at EABGIII.........along with all the others!
Tim Twiss
Jul 27, 2008, 2:15:08 PM7/27/08
to Minstrel Banjo
Tom, I'm right there with you until the unison idea. I think this
implies a C# on the first string and a stopped not on the second, in
order to have the player use 2 strings instead of a "slurred" motion.
implies a C# on the first string and a stopped not on the second, in
order to have the player use 2 strings instead of a "slurred" motion.
Tim Twiss
Jul 27, 2008, 9:22:48 PM7/27/08
to Minstrel Banjo
I mean "note" (not not)
> > at EABGIII.........along with all the others!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Banjovi
Jul 27, 2008, 9:51:26 PM7/27/08
to Minstrel Banjo
The footnote says it all, I think. There is no implied c# from the
wording, it simply says " Stop on B, on second string, trill with 1st
and 2nd strings". That is unison, isn't it? Unless I'm missing
something, which is not impossible, even with the aid of my much more
written-music-savvy-wife.
Tim Twiss
Jul 27, 2008, 10:09:28 PM7/27/08
to Minstrel Banjo
Okay, we're goin' in.
The Harvard Dictionary of Music defines a trill as:
"A musical ornamentation consisting of the rapid alteration of a given
note and the diatonic second above it"
Converse defines it the same way (pg 19 of the Analyitcal)
So, there is only one conclusion. I really think he wanted a rapid
striking on two adjacent strings, and not the "hammer-pull" type. The
placing of a "B" on the second string gives the greatest advantage to
a good fingering for a M2, right.
BUT...there is nothing to indicate that a unsion repitition of notes
won't sound good...especially here, but a trill is certainly two
pitches.
WAIT A MINUTE....we're talking about banjo music, right?? I think it
just got too deep. Play it any way it works!!
The Harvard Dictionary of Music defines a trill as:
"A musical ornamentation consisting of the rapid alteration of a given
note and the diatonic second above it"
Converse defines it the same way (pg 19 of the Analyitcal)
So, there is only one conclusion. I really think he wanted a rapid
striking on two adjacent strings, and not the "hammer-pull" type. The
placing of a "B" on the second string gives the greatest advantage to
a good fingering for a M2, right.
BUT...there is nothing to indicate that a unsion repitition of notes
won't sound good...especially here, but a trill is certainly two
pitches.
WAIT A MINUTE....we're talking about banjo music, right?? I think it
just got too deep. Play it any way it works!!
trapdoor2
Jul 28, 2008, 9:32:09 AM7/28/08
to Minstrel Banjo
Now that I've been playing this for a while, the trill is getting
easier and easier. I've found that it tickles my ear to slow it down
at the "turn" on the end of the trill...a "rallentendo" which resolves
"a tempo" in the following measure.
I'm upset that you think the banjo isn't deep. Converse would have
words for you!
===Marc
easier and easier. I've found that it tickles my ear to slow it down
at the "turn" on the end of the trill...a "rallentendo" which resolves
"a tempo" in the following measure.
I'm upset that you think the banjo isn't deep. Converse would have
words for you!
===Marc
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