Is Eric Priceless? You tell us
Greg Wolff - UnaMesa.org
the UnaMesa Association wants to hear from you. Specifically, if Eric
or someone else has answered your questions or customized a plugin for
you, please take a moment to fill out the form at http://support.unamesa.org/FeedbackForm
This is an initial experiment to help identify what YOU, the
TiddlyWiki community value. What have you found helpful? What kinds
of development and support would you like to encourage?
The not-for-profit UnaMesa Association has been a long-time supporter
of the TiddlyWiki community. Thanks to Osmosoft BT, Ricoh
Innovations, and other supporters we have a small amount of resources
to help make it possible for people like Eric, Saq, Martin, and others
to devote time and energy to developing tools that serve your needs.
For more background on this experiment, please see this recent blog
posting:
http://blog.unamesa.org/2009/02/17/rewarding-good-service/
Thanks for your assistance. If you have any suggestions on how to
improve this process, please reply to this message or leave a comment
on the above blog entry.
-Greg
UnaMesa.org -- Supporting Team Based Public Services
Dave Gifford
than Eric and the others. He deserves boatloads of recognition, too.
Dave
Alex Hough
you just have to see the times he posts to the group - weekends, evenings;
Don't burn out FND! - take some time out of TiddlyWorld now and again!
ALex
2009/2/20 Dave Gifford <gif...@gmail.com>:
> Why isn't Fred (FND) on the list? He has helped me as much if not more
> than Eric and the others. He deserves boatloads of recognition, too.
>
> Dave
> >
>
t: 0161 442 2202
m: 0781 372 50 17
skype: alexhough
delicious: alexhough
Alex Hough
Morris Gray
code, a plugin or just in need of some direction, any help we receive
deserves the highest gratitude that can be given.
In this respect it isn't possible to set one above another. It is the
community that is priceless. It is each contributing member and their
talent and generosity that is given freely which is beyond measure.
While your efforts to apportion gratitude and rewards is admirable I
don't think it is possible within such a group. We all have our own
favourites and they are as varied as our needs and personalities. The
results would be far from scientific and any reward system
controversial. However, good luck with your project..
Morris Gray
http://twhelp.tiddlyspot.com
A TiddlyWiki help file for beginners
.
On Feb 21, 6:21 am, "Greg Wolff - UnaMesa.org" <gregwo...@unamesa.org>
wrote:
> the UnaMesa Association wants to hear from you. Specifically, if Eric
> or someone else has answered your questions or customized a plugin for
Alex Hough
governance issues arise.
Would it be in appropriate for these issues to be discussed on the group?
It would be interesting for the community to know what is going on
behind the scenes with BT and Unamesa, to be privy to conversations
and debates and to be able contribute.
Alex
2009/2/21 Morris Gray <msg...@symbex.net.au>:
Paul Downey (psd)
> With the unusual structure of the TiddlyWiki project, some interesting
> governance issues arise.
> Would it be in appropriate for these issues to be discussed on the group?
>
> It would be interesting for the community to know what is going on
> behind the scenes with BT and Unamesa, to be privy to conversations
> and debates and to be able contribute.
BT, from where I sit the only thing going on behind closed the scenes
are stuff you'd expect to go on behind closed doors, e.g. sponsorship.
Beyond that I'm unaware of any hidden hand. There are no meetings in
Area 51. There is no Grassy Knoll :) If that doesn't reassure you,
then I suggest you start a thread with some specific concerns and we
can get someone from Osmosoft and UnaMesa to answer them.
Note: if it's the technical direction of TiddlyWiki which worries you,
then that's a very different issue. TiddlyWiki is a fairly typical
Open Source project in that the direction is steered by developers
contributing trac tickets, patches, code, and Jeremy as our BDFL
taking editorial control. We now have other core committers including
Martin Budden and FND, but it's Jeremy who ultimately decides which
contributions are released and which remain as plugins, extensions and
forks. That path continues to be very transparent, and observable from
trac: http://trac.tiddlywiki.org/
As in most any decision process there are discussions behind those
decisions taking place on trac, this and the developer mailing lists,
on irc, directly over email, IM and face to face discussion, sometimes
over frothy drinks. It's not always to the satisfaction of everybody,
but in life, nothing ever is! If you want to influence the discussion,
it's simple: choose a venue which suits you and continue to
contribute!
Paul (psd)
--
http://blog.whatfettle.com
Mike
that FND & ELS are awesome !!
Can I join the fan club? (I want a FND = Friend Tshirt)
thx,
Mike
On Feb 21, 6:43 am, "Paul Downey (psd)" <paul.s.dow...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Alex Hough
Its not intended as such ;)
> Note: if it's the technical direction of TiddlyWiki which worries you, then that's a very different issue. TiddlyWiki is a fairly typical
No, i suppose i was a bit worried that the TW project is under some
kind of budget threat. I'm jumping to conclusions at the end of the
week.
ALex
(non sinister and peaceful person)
Alex Hough
when I wrote
"It would be interesting for the community to know what is going on
behind the scenes with BT and Unamesa, to be privy to conversations
and debates and to be able contribute."
sinister. Rather 'interesting' from a business structure point of
view. I've had discussion about ideas with a few innovation academics:
the think i am on another planet when i tell them the Tiddly IP is
owned by a charity. They don't believe me when I tell them about the
TW project.
I can't contribute code, but have a research interest in creativity
and organisational structure. I thought that I would be able to help
in some way. I do appreciate that there is a difference in asking
questions and delving into the workings of companies; the business of
a business is their own business. I am not wanting to butt in, but i
think that there is some genuinely interesting new ground and a model
for community organisaton and cooperation that could be applied
elsewhere.
Is it common for Open Source projects? Is it common in R&D in companies like BT?
Alex
----
When
2009/2/21 Paul Downey (psd) <paul.s...@gmail.com>:
Alex Hough
---------
I've had discussion about ideas with a few innovation academics: the
think i am on another planet when i tell them the Tiddly IP is owned
by a charity. They don't believe me when I tell them about the TW
project.
companies like BT?
many appologies in many fields.
ALex
2009/2/21 Alex Hough <r.a....@googlemail.com>:
>
> when I wrote
>
> "It would be interesting for the community to know what is going on
> behind the scenes with BT and Unamesa, to be privy to conversations
> and debates and to be able contribute."
>
> ... the word 'interesting' was not meant to allude to anything
> sinister. Rather 'interesting' from a business structure point of
> view. I've had discussion about ideas with a few innovation academics:
> the think i am on another planet when i tell them the Tiddly IP is
> owned by a charity. They don't believe me when I tell them about the
> TW project.
>
> I can't contribute code, but have a research interest in creativity
> and organisational structure. I thought that I would be able to help
> in some way. I do appreciate that there is a difference in asking
> questions and delving into the workings of companies; the business of
> a business is their own business. I am not wanting to butt in, but i
> think that there is some genuinely interesting new ground and a model
> for community organisaton and cooperation that could be applied
> elsewhere.
>
>
Paul Downey (psd)
> error alert !!! the above has a bit in the wrong place.
> I've had discussion about ideas with a few innovation academics: the
> think i am on another planet when i tell them the Tiddly IP is owned
> by a charity. They don't believe me when I tell them about the TW
> project.
>
> Is it common for Open Source projects?
organisation as opposed to an individual is very boring and highly
conventional:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Software_Foundation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Software_Foundation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Foundation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclipse_Foundation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbian_Foundation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Perl_Foundation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python_Software_Foundation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenBSD_Foundation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Source_Applications_Foundation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Source_Development_Labs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.Org_Foundation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Foundation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Invention_Network
etc, etc ..
> Is it common in R&D in companies like BT?
to undertake "Open Source Innovation" through Osmosoft, however other
companies are also undertaking similar approaches, sometimes under the
banner of "open innovation":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_innovation
I'd point out this is not the only way BT fosters innovation and uses
other models of collaboration with academia, other companies, and
organisations. Jeremy wrote a nice explanation of Osmosoft's raison
d'être:
http://jermolene.com/2008/08/13/what-is-the-point-of-osmosoft/
Osmosoft is but a tiny part of BT Design, whose Managing Director, JP
Rangaswami:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JP_Rangaswami
is a thought leader in the value of "open":
http://confusedofcalcutta.com/
Best,
Greg Wolff - UnaMesa.org
thread and on the feedback form.
By popular demand, FND has been added to the feedback form.
Please note that the list was never meant to be comprehensive. Help
in the TiddlyWiki community clearly comes from all quarters. I've
always been impressed by the mutual respect of almost all participants
in this forum who treat each other as peers.
Our goal with the feedback form was simply to get some direct input
from the community on UnaMesa associates, those people who have a
formal working relationship with the UnaMesa Association. Unlike
others on the list, FND is only indirectly associated with UnaMesa.
FND is employed by BT Osmosoft, a sponsor of the non-profit UnaMesa
Association. (See next message for details on that relationship.)
-Greg
On Feb 20, 3:27 pm, Alex Hough <r.a.ho...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> has FND got a fan club? t-shirt? action figure?
>
>
>
> > (for ages i thought that FND was short for 'friend')
> > you just have to see the times he posts to the group - weekends, evenings;
>
> > Don't burn out FND! - take some time out of TiddlyWorld now and again!
>
> > ALex
>
Greg Wolff - UnaMesa.org
I appreciate your comments with respect to both governance issues and
the potential downside of introducing any kind of "performance
metrics" into a community of peers. I am hoping that you and the
broader community can help us come up find approaches to these issues
that work well for the TiddlyWiki community.
First some tiny background:
* Jeremy started TiddlyWiki on his own and remains an independent
minded technical leader of TW development even in his position at BT
Osmosoft
* Around the same time the Jeremy started TiddlyWiki I started the
UnaMesa Association and was fortunate enough to find Jeremy. Thanks to
grants from Ricoh Innovations, UnaMesa helped make it possible for
Jeremy, Eric, and other associates to spend more time helping the
community and less time worrying about paying the bills.
* Since Jeremy joined BT, BT has provided grants to the UnaMesa
Association to support the TW community. That raises two questions:
** How best to support the community?
** How to demonstrate that support to UnaMesa funders so that they
know they are getting good value for their money.
The main reason for initiating the feedback form was to help answer
these questions. I recognize that the feedback form has many flaws.
It would be much better if we could, for example, automatically
analyze the conversations on the groups and try to somehow show what
value was generated. Unfortunately we haven't found anything or
anyone who could do that kind of analysis.
I also want to be clear that this is not the beginning of some kind of
"pay for help" model. I started UnaMesa because of frustration with
the lack of good IT options for schools, clinics, social services, and
almost any kind of small business. Most business models for software
tend to work against the interests of customers by using some soft of
"lock-in" or forced upgrade model. Open source helps, but even there
the programmers and support personnel need to eat and they end up
adopting models like "pay for premium" or "pay for service" that again
goes against the interests of the customers.
Information technology and knowledge in general provides the most
value to "customers" when it is shared and everyone is able to
contribute and build upon each others work. Nevertheless, programmers
"need to eat" in order for the effort to be sustainable. So UnaMesa
is an experiment in providing software and support services freely to
communities while providing support to people who have something of
value to the community and want to contribute but would be unable to
do so without financial assistance. Of course, UnaMesa welcomes any
contributions (which go directly back into supporting the community)
but we have no intention of making money a requirement to get the best
help possible.
Like the Apache foundation and other non profits that support open
source projects, part of our mission is to operate the trac, svn, and
documentation sites at *.tiddlywiki.org. Unlike most other groups we
actively support the community. This includes current users of
TiddlyWiki as well as potential users such as classrooms (e.g. the
StudentNotebook) and clinics who may not know about TW or related
technologies. I wish we had great metrics to help us decide what's
most important and show the value created for students, patients, and
others in the community. We don't yet and the feedback form is just
one, imperfect step to help us do it a bit better. We welcome your
ideas and suggestions.
Lastly, one point about transparency. UnaMesa is a virtual
organization with associates spread around the globe. All of our
coordination happens through our project wikis which are available to
the public at http://www.projects.unamesa.org/. On that site you can
find transcripts of our weekly conference calls and get more details
than anyone cares to know about our connections with BT and other
partners.
-Greg
Alex Hough
To me it seems that Unamesa is different than the foundations quoted
above. It has an espoused purpose beyond the not-for-profit
safekeeping of the IP. I think that it is this that makes it different
than the open source projects you list, but not sure.
About open innovation; the question of "what is after open
innovation?' in the context of R&D management is one that i have heard
recently. I floated the idea that the
IP-in-a-charity-with-specific-projects-model might be an innovation.
There seems to be a shift in values amongst the business students and
tech people I meet. They appear to be more interested in sharing and
charity rather than forging white hot careers or developing a mega
cool application - (which is what they were into last year) .
Some companies might have difficulties in attracting interesting and
talented people. Some drug companies, for example, might be having
difficulties developing their innovation strategies because their
values might not concur with those of the current generation of
students and potential recruits. If they had an "Osmosoft BT
Unamesa" informed identity – the
'IP-in-a-charity-with-specific-projects-model?' – they would develop a
culture more attractive to employees and might even and culture get a
'community' themselves.
(It would be wonderful to have a Gregs, Jeremys, Erics, FNDs,
GiffMexes, Wolfgangs, Morrises, Skyes, Udos, BidiXes( and PSDs) in all
the communities and markets in which one belongs?)
Alex
Greg Wolff - UnaMesa.org
community organized around a common good versus a community organized
around a corporate good. Is it possible to align those two? After
several years of trying, I still don't know the answer. Successful
alignments seem to have two factors in common:
* individual participants identify first with the community (Jeremy
probably thinks of himself more as a TiddlyWiki person than a BT
person)
* the company sees or imagines ways they can "add value" on top of the
common good (and charge for that value). Hypothetical example: BT
using TiddlyWiki to package and deliver text messaging services to
their business customers.
More often than not two big factors get in the way of aligning common
and corporate interests:
* IP laws and standard practices. For example, many companies are now
willing to license copyrights into a common pool but they want to
retain their patent rights and positions.
* Notwithstanding the IP issues, coordination styles don't mesh.
Corporations live or die by cash flow. This gives everyone in the
corporation a common yardstick for decision making and prioritizing
actions. The community commons lacks any clear measure of the common
good. To the corporate eye, these communities look chaotic and
unpredictable and thus an unappealing avenue for investing
resources.
This last point brings us right back to the original thread and
motivation for the feedback form experiment. Namely, how do we make
visible the value created within the community in a way that supports
and strengthens coordination and cooperation?
-Greg
Morris Gray
> Corporations live or die by cash flow. This gives everyone in the
> corporation a common yardstick for decision making and prioritizing
> actions. The community commons lacks any clear measure of the common
> good. To the corporate eye, these communities look chaotic and
> unpredictable and thus an unappealing avenue for investing
> resources.
>
> This last point brings us right back to the original thread and
> motivation for the feedback form experiment. Namely, how do we make
> visible the value created within the community in a way that supports
> and strengthens coordination and cooperation?
this order of importance to an individual.
1: Identity
2: Stimulation
3: Security
These apply equally to individuals in corporations as well as
cooperatives.
Traditionally individuals in corporations have always listed monetary
reward well down in the list of reasons they stay or enjoy their
jobs. This is the reason corporations tend to use promotions as a
means to keep an employee over a large pay increase. ( It is also the
reason people get promoted to positions beyond their capacity and
accounts for the Peter Principle http://www.answers.com/topic/peter-principle)
So for all practical purposes we can eliminate 3: for individuals (as
opposed to corporations) for this discussion. Consequently the
dichotomy between corporations and cooperatives are irrelevant.
Identity applies equally to animals that live in groups, including the
naked ape of which we are members. It is the well known so-called
pecking order that determines an individual's status within the
group. It the wild as well as in civilization this identity
determines the social order and gives the group stability that
provides a stable platform for achievement and reasonable tranquility.
In the human situation stimulation is nearly as important as identity.
The inquisitive nature of humans keeps them constantly on the lookout
for stimulation, the new, the unusual and the progressive innovation.
While the corporation does bond the group to some degree because of
the desperate need for profit; the motivations that causes it to
succeed are the identity and the stimulation of the individuals within
it.
The recent innovation of open-source projects and free software proves
great things can be done without any monetary reward at all.
So for the answer to your question ...."how do we make visible the
identity and stimulation of the individuals within the group as the
first place to start.
Your form does this to some degree but it is lacking in finesse and
subtlety. It is more of a popularity contest than a bonding
mechanism.
If you want more details on how to achieve your goal you'll have to
pay me.
Just kidding;-)
Morris
On Feb 22, 11:32 pm, "Greg Wolff - UnaMesa.org"
YGG-
& contributions, + timely answers to questions...
[others are likely priceless too I know but I don't know them:]
YGG
On Feb 20, 8:21 pm, "Greg Wolff - UnaMesa.org" <gregwo...@unamesa.org>
wrote:
> the UnaMesa Association wants to hear from you. Specifically, if Eric
> or someone else has answered your questions or customized a plugin for
Alex Hough
Re: "This last point brings us right back to the original thread and
motivation for the feedback form experiment. Namely, how do we make
visible the value created within the community in a way that supports
and strengthens coordination and cooperation?"
As well as TiddlyWiki, I am also a big fan of Stafford Beer's Viable
System Model (VSM). The model is intended to be used to design and
tweak organizations so that they adapt to the environment. My approach
to your question (very unsurprisingly to those who know me) would
involve making a model of the system and I would use a TiddlyWiki!
In the VSM, coordination and cooperation are systems, 'System 2' and
'System 3' respectively. There are other systems which connect to
these.
*System 4 -development, looking out for the future
*System 5 - identity, policy, governance
*System 1 is where all the opperations are and where the direct value
exchange with the environment is.
**Inside a System 1 is another viable system. The model is often
described like a Russian Doll, or like looking under a car's hood /
bonnet only to find another car.
Systems 3,4 and 5 act to dynamically balance the organization's
present, future and its identity, but they too are part of a viable
system - at a 'higher level of recursion.' So the VSM is a fractal
model - made up up of other viable systems.
The VSM is an expression of Ashby's Law of Requite Variety. The
systems and communications channels between them have to have the
capacity for dealing with the variety (aka complexity). To be viable,
the systems at each level need to be able to communicate the
complexities they need to do their job between them. They also need to
communicate to systems at this 'higher levels of recursion' . For this
communication to work in real life, the varieties have to be
'amplified' or 'filtered.' otherwise people get confused, not listen
too or give up trying to communicate.
The background to the question "how do we make visible the value
created within the community in a way that supports and strengthens
coordination and cooperation?" was an enquiry into connection between
'the community' and 'those that Unamesa resource to help the
community'. Some people start modeling starting with the
'complexity drivers': Technology, time, TwUser , geography,
At the moment one way of measuring the technological complexity of a
question is which group it gets posted to: it's either a Tw or TwDev
question.
Other -- though possibly not very sensible ways -- could be length of
question, length of thread, requirement for the question need to be
posted in an example TW to give it context...
We can look at the two google groups as two systems with connections
to different elements of the 'system in focus.' I would say that Tw
group has a stronger connection to System 5 (identity) -- the 'value
exchange' is that TwUser gets their problem solved and personally
experiences the identity of the project. The project has a satisfied
customer and all those that contribute to the identity of the project
gain some goodwill. TwDev's questioners are more likely to already
know about the identity of the project and there will be different
value exchanges. New developments emerge. For the sponsor company,
this link is a highly important structural one; between its System 4
and part of its external environment. But more important is the link
between its System 1 and the environment - it is a link that is often
missing.
Expanding the model from this point would then begin to show
archetypal issues like missing connections and unbalanced complexity.
Then some changes could be tested. For example reducing the number of
questions from new TwUser could be addressed by tweaking the
connections between the systems that produce the list of frequently
asked questions. Reducing the complexity of the journey to the
question (perhaps measured by number of clicks?) would make it easier
for new TwUsers to find the list of frequently asked questions ,
leading to less questions asked.
The question of producing a clear list of FAQ on tiddlywiki.com,
with the default option of downloading a TW copy with the list worth
considering? It is a governance issue.
The tiddler help and support tiddler[1] for example could be writen in
a way in which the complexity of ideas is reduced and unfolds
HELP AND SUPPORT
--------------------------------
!Help
Here is a list of [[Frequently asked questions]]
!Support
If you can't find the answer to your problem you can search our
[[google groups|http://google.groups.tiddlywiki]]
To post a question you will need to join the group. This is a simple
process, the only reason is to prevent spam ;)
The community is very FreNDly please jump in with any question.
It your question is difficult, you might want to make a [[test
tiddlywiki]] so that your problem can be solved more quickly, and
become an example which may help someone else
!!More
A [[community wiki|http://tiddlywiki.org]] is for community members to
share general information.
The roadmaps for the project is at [[trac| http://tiddlytrac]] code is
stored at [[svn|http:tiddlysubversion]]
--------------------------------
So in summary to make the value creation visible I would start making
by making a model. To do it in a way that "supports and strengthens
coordination and cooperation" i would compare the continuously
updated model to a theoretical Viable System Model [2].
I'd use a TW -- the original but continuously improved reusable
non-linear personal web notebook -- to make the model.
Best Wishes
Alex
[1] http://tiddlywiki.com/#[[Help%20and%20Support]]
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viable_System_Model
Morris Gray
> by making a model. To do it in a way that "supports and strengthens
> coordination and cooperation" i would compare the continuously
> updated model to a theoretical Viable System Model [2].
>
> I'd use a TW -- the original but continuously improved reusable
> non-linear personal web notebook -- to make the model.
an individual to save and categorize information from TiddlyWiki
Google groups. While it has some obvious short comings it could serve
in some way as a model to do as you suggest.
It uses TiddlySnips ( which is in danger for it is no longer supported
by the author) however it is my attempt to preserve information from
the Group in some kind of order including links back to the original
source. It needs more thought put into the categories and could be
improved in many other ways to achieve something similar to what you
suggest.
The rather random meanderings of the threads in the Group precludes
preserving the precise author and/or the best post within the thread.
However it gives good degree of order and provides a searchable means
of finding information in spite of having a limited number categories.
It was originally designed to fit into the Firefox sidebar for handy
reference purposes. See it here http://sidesnips.tiddlyspot.com/
Pseudo Realname
>
> The not-for-profit UnaMesa Association has been a long-time supporter
> of the TiddlyWiki community. Thanks to Osmosoft BT, Ricoh
> Innovations, and other supporters we have a small amount of resources
> to help make it possible for people like Eric, Saq, Martin, and others
> to devote time and energy to developing tools that serve your needs.
> For more background on this experiment, please see this recent blog
> posting:
> http://blog.unamesa.org/2009/02/17/rewarding-good-service/
>
How about organising some machines for Eric? A Mac, a 64bit Vista and such?
If Eric can't debug there, some bugs lately are hard to fix.
> -Greg
>
Pseudo