TagglyTagging - Main purpose and how to begin?

[W_de]

Hi there,

I still feel very encouraged by this intro text to this group (thanks
for it!):

>> New Users: Please don't hesitate to post your questions. Elsewhere you are expected to wade through the archives before posting any questions. But it's not like that here - just jump in.

On quite a few occasions I read about TagglyTagging. So obviously this
must be a pretty useful plugin. I tried to check at the source:
http://mptw.tiddlyspot.com/#TagglyTagging

But I wondered: was it really useful to read through all the things
there? Because - already three years ago(!) - it says:

>> What's different about TagglyTagging? Actually a lot less than there used to be since TiddlyWiki version 2.0! (TagglyTagging introduced the concept that a tag was a tiddler and vice-versa. Since version 2.0 this concept central to tagging in TiddlyWiki.)

Does this mean TagglyTagging is not useful any more? (Since I didn't
know TW from Version 1.x I have no idea how much TagglyTagging might
have "lost" by the TW update)

And 11 months ago the TagglyTagging source website says about it:

>> Note, this stuff is a bit old and in need of redrafting in some places. Apologies.

(Well, in my eyes there is no need to apologize, because rarely we
have the time to keep all things up to date).

In order to perhaps find some more updated infos I did a search for
"TagglyTagging" here in this group, and it returned 631 postings. So
this as well seems to be not a very efficient way to find a
begginner's way why and how to use it.

My question now is: does somebody perhaps know a tutorial or some
other kind of text which could give TW beginners an idea about the
purpose and the ways to use this plugin?

TIA W_de

[altiplano]

Hello,

I'm a new TiddlyWiki user and I ask myself the same questions about
this plugin present usefulness.

I disabled it to see what would be missing but did not notice any
difference.
I may be short-sighted or simply not gaining the true benefit of it
according to my present TiddlyWiki use, which is rather basic so far.

Anyway, inputs from advanced/power users would be appreciated.

[Amzg]

I use tagglyTagging daily and I find it extremely useful. I can warmly
recommend it as its functionality is not included in core TW.

Basically, in a tiddler "A", it renders a list of all other tiddlers
tagged "A". The list is located at the bottom of each tiddler, and is
part of the template (as far as I can tell), i.e if you open a tiddler
in view mode (such as when you write something in it) you will not see
any taggly-code there.

It also allows you various views of this list, such as a tree
structure of every other tiddler tagged "A" and *their* sub-tiddlers,
or you can have it so that they are grouped into what other tags they
might have, etc etc.
(Actually, one of the few things that is not fully satisfactory is
that there are several different displays but how to choose between
them is a bit iffy. Would probaby be better if the alternatives were
presented in drop down boxes or such).

The explanation on the site is in deed a bit 'meaty'. I would say you
can skip it and instead just install the plugin. As many things are
more or less automatically tagged when you use TW, you will see the
(positive) consequences of it.

I find tagglyTagging very, very valuable and can wholeheartedly
recommend it.

/Mat

[Alex Hough]

The is something about the rhythm of working with tagglyTagging. it
seems to go quite naturally with the way you think. it works really
well with the new here plugin. Its like being on a roll. anyone else
know what i mean???

it is good for thinking up and down levels of abstraction (i think
that is what i am on about - tTagging can get a little mindbending on
the odd occasion)

Alex

2009/1/6 Amzg <matia...@gmail.com>:

--
t: 0161 442 2202
m: 0781 372 50 17

[Morris Gray]

I struggled with understanding what TagglyTagging was all about and
bewilidered when I tried to follow the tutorial. After many many
months it became clear when Dave Gifford applied it to No-Brainer
notes. Once I saw a real application I could understand the fog
lifted and I ran with it.

I modified No-Brainer notes to suit myself and in doing so got a grasp
of it. It is a simple use of TagglyTagging but is used to good
effect. Many thanks to Dave for helping me create one of my favourite
TW's. It's on the second revision and I've just added math equation
generation to it. Explore it and see the fundamentals of
TagglyTagging.

Trying to create your own master topic and subtopics is a good way to
start to grasp the fundamentals it's almost a tutorial.

Just click download in the sidebar and play with it a while at least
one simple use of TagglyTagging will surely become clear.

http://twt-notes.tiddlyspot.com/

Morris
http://twmath.tiddlyspot.com/
quick and easy math formulas
http://twequation.tiddlyspot.com/
an equation capable personal web notebook

[W_de]

Thanks to those who answered.

I installed TagglyTaggingPlugin (and all the other parts starting with
"TagglyTagging..."), played around with it and tried to find the
function of it. But I can't see what it does.

I then also downloaded http://twt-notes.tiddlyspot.com/ and played
around with it. Very nice done! - But to be honest: I still didn't
understand more about TagglyTagging (And twmath has certainly some
very nice features, but my TW knowledge unfortunately is not deep
enough to be able to adapt this to my own needs. E.g. I didn't even
manage to disable the horizontal tabs and single page view mode and
work with it in the "classic" way).

I am somewhat disappointed that I don't grasp the idea and how to
accomplish the TagglyTagging thing, because I sense that it must be
quite useful. But for now it looks like I had to give up, until maybe
I run into an updated step-by-step tutorial somewhere and somewhen...

Thanks again for your inputs!

W_de

[Amzg]

Maybe if you try out http://mptw.tiddlyspot.com/#Download
i.e Mr.Bairds own version of TW, which in itself is very very nice and
where taggly is included by default....

/Mat

On Jan 7, 10:45 pm, W_de <w...@gmx.net> wrote:
> Thanks to those who answered.
>
> I installed TagglyTaggingPlugin (and all the other parts starting with
> "TagglyTagging..."), played around with it and tried to find the
> function of it. But I can't see what it does.
>

> I then also downloadedhttp://twt-notes.tiddlyspot.com/and played

[eew...@bellsouth.net]

 If you don't grasp the idea, then you probably don't have the need. When  you have the need, you'll ask for help, TiddlyTagging will be suggested, and you'll grasp the idea.

My use, which is pretty elementary at this point, is for organizing a modest sized collection of tiddlers addressing different aspects of an extended subject. Not just organizing, though. I found thinking about how to use TiddlyTagging for this purpose stimulated thinking about the subject I've been trying to write about.

I tend to be wary of hierarchical approaches. Even where they're useful they have their limitations and can mislead. With that in mind, however, I've found Tiddly Tagging helpful. It surprised me at first, but it has definitely been helpful.

Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA

[Morris Gray]

> I didn't even
> manage to disable the horizontal tabs and single page view mode and
> work with it in the "classic" way).

If you prefer not to use tabs in http://twt-notes.tiddlyspot.com/ you
can recover the 'classic' TiddlyWiki behaviour simply by disabling the
TiddlersBarPluginMG. Simply change it's tag to systemXConfig (you may
wish to change back for certain applications). This allows all open
tiddlers to be viewed at the same time with newly opened tiddlers
opening at the top. I have now included this information in the
Customization tiddler.

This also applies to http://twequation.tiddlyspot.com/ which is a
fundamentally a basic empty TiddlyWiki that with a few other
enhancements like QuickEditPlugin and improved SearchResults includes
math equation capabilities.


Morris Gray
http://twhelp.tiddlyspot.com
A TiddlyWiki help file for beginners
http://twt-notes.tiddlyspot.com/
tabbed notes for the taking

http://twequation.tiddlyspot.com/
an equation capable personal web notebook

On Jan 8, 8:45 am, W_de <w...@gmx.net> wrote:
> Thanks to those who answered.
>
> I installed TagglyTaggingPlugin (and all the other parts starting with
> "TagglyTagging..."), played around with it and tried to find the
> function of it. But I can't see what it does.
>

> I then also downloadedhttp://twt-notes.tiddlyspot.com/and played

[W_de]

Mat,

I am beginning to get a glimpse of it! Finally!

> Maybe if you try out http://mptw.tiddlyspot.com/#Download
> i.e Mr.Bairds own version of TW, which in itself is very very nice and
> where taggly is included by default....

I followed your tip and now it worked. I finally could see
TagglyTagging in action!

I had imported TagglyTagging to my own main TW before, but now I see:
it seemingly hadn't worked there (maybe it was incompatible with some
other plugins, or maybe I did't install *all* parts which were needed?
Which ones are needed, anyway? I would be interested in getting it
running also in my main TW). So all the time I was watching out for
what it did, and it just did: ...nothing. So I always wondered... and
was still curious after reading so many positive feedbacks about it.

Thank you and the others who kept trying to help me. Now I can explore
how to use it, and I got a glimpse already that indeed this could be
very useful.

Morris: thanks for pointing me (and even including this tip into the
TW itself) to the name of the plugin which I had to disable in order
ot get the classic view running. Now it behaves in the the desired
way.

Greetings, W_de

[Alex Hough]

I would second this. have a mess a bout

[altiplano]

>Basically, in a tiddler "A", it renders a list of all other tiddlers
>tagged "A".

As I've started using TiddlyWiki with MPTW (thank you Mr.Bairds), I've
been taking this aspect for granted and have not been into advanced
list uses yet.

Thank you for pointing out the core of it. And thanks all for the
inputs.

[Eric Shulman]

> >Basically, in a tiddler "A", it renders a list of all other tiddlers
> >tagged "A".

While the "tiddlername used as a tag" feature originated with
TagglyTagging, it has been included in the TW core functionality for
quite some time. Even with an empty, plain vanilla TW, you can tag
tiddlers with "SomeTag" and then also create a tiddler called
[[SomeTag]]. When viewing [[SomeTag]] a 'tagging' list will be
automatically displayed, showing all the tiddlers that are tagged with
"SomeTag".

One basic use of this core feature: adding notes about the meaning of
a given tag. For example, on TiddlyTools, I have 'bundled' various
tiddlers together into 'feature packages' by tagging the tiddlers with
"XYZPackage". Then, I create an [[XYZPackage]] tiddler that describes
the purpose of the bundle, plus any extra instructions on how to
install/configure the options for that bundle of features.

Note: using "...Package" tags also makes it very easy to install the
entire bundle of tiddlers when using TiddlyTools' ImportTiddlerPlugin,
which allows you to select tiddlers by matching a tag value (a feature
currently lacking in the core's backstage>import panel)

enjoy,
-e
Eric Shulman
TiddlyTools / ELS Design Studios

[Ken Girard]

W_de,
Go into your ViewTemplate and replace:
<div class='tagged' macro='tags'></div>
with
<div class="tagglyTagged" macro="tags"></div>

remove
<div class='tagging' macro='tagging'></div>
and put
<div class='tagglyTagging' macro='tagglyTagging'></div>
between
<div class='viewer' macro='view text wikified'></div>
&
<div class='tagClear'></div>

Ken Girard

On Jan 7, 8:41 pm, W_de <w...@gmx.net> wrote:
> Mat,
>
> I am beginning to get a glimpse of it! Finally!
>

> > Maybe if you try outhttp://mptw.tiddlyspot.com/#Download

[Simon Baird]

I think unless you're an expert TWer then if you want to try TagglyTagging then start with an empty MPTW. Otherwise you have to get into tweaking your ViewTemplates and so on and installing the ancilliary stuff.

To put it another way, you can't get started with TagglyTagging by just importing the TagglyTaggingPlugin. You also need NewHere, QuickOpenTag, RenameTags, the template customisations and so on.

The faq and tutorial are still good despite the fact that they are old and need a bit of a redraft. (Though from the comments here the tutorial isn't working for everyone). The tutorial presumes you're using an MPTW with all the TagglyTagging components.


Best wishes,

Simon.

Ps, I enjoyed reading some of the comments in this thread. Cheers to all the MPTW fans out there.. :)

--
simon...@gmail.com

[W_de]

Simon,

>> To put it another way, you can't get started with TagglyTagging by just
importing the TagglyTaggingPlugin. You also need NewHere,
QuickOpenTag,
RenameTags, the template customisations and so on.

Yes. And I wasn't aware of that, when I first tried to figure out what
TagglyTaggingPlugin does. And so the tutorial obviously just *could*
not work. Now I see why I couldn't see it work :-)

Thanks, W_de