I've rolled together a bunch of further changes which hopefully
represent another improvement. Could you please check them out and let
me know what you think?
As well as getting your response to these amendments, I'd also like to
ask for your *best possible examples* of TiddlyWiki in use. We've got
lots of examples where it's been used as a wiki or a website; we're
now looking for examples of applications or technical wizardry.
Also, is anyone aware of any books which are either about TiddlyWiki
or have at least one section focusing on TiddlyWiki? (please include
URL!)
I'd like to roll in these improvements before going back to the
graphical design considerations. Hot potato!
1. Removed author, date of origin / last amendments from each tiddler
- now looking cleaner as a result.
2. Added "Examples" to the left hand navigation (to support the
evaluation process). Will try and surface these examples better when
looking at graphical design in the next phase. But in the meantime:
3. Updated "Examples" and "Help and Support" tiddlers with additions
to lists and corrected URLs, awaiting more of the best examples
please!
4. Installed Udo Borkowski's search plugin, without modifications
(thanks Udo!)
5. Tagline changed. You might recall a thread a little while ago
asking for suggestions about taglines (http://groups.google.com/group/ TiddlyWiki/browse_thread/thread/11b76771e31ca6ba/). So I tried to pick
out the ones which meet the key criteria. These suggested criteria (a)
as little jargon as possible (b) describes the main states of
TiddlyWiki - storage of personal data, group wiki and application with
unlimited possibilities - and (c) easy to remember, say and share!
And here are what I think were the best suggestions.
- the portable web notebook
- the Web, Unplugged
- simply a hypertext tool
- a flexible web notebook
- control your world
So, "web notebook" is a recurring theme. I've gone for "the flexible
web notebook". Any objection?
6. Right hand navigation, "contents" is now "index", and spacing issue
has been fixed.
7. The big one....Download improved. This is just a work in progress,
and I'm looking for feedback please! This is what I've done:
(a) One can now download with a left click - so we're now in line with
standard web conventions. It'll still download if established users
use a right click.
(b) The idea is that (eventually!) the site will open an Installation
tiddler immediately before download commences. So this help text will
be in the browser while download and installation takes place in the
foreground. Check out the Firefox.com site to see how this works.
(c) I'd created a tiddler to show what these guidelines might look
like. Click on the "Download for Firefox on Mac OS X" to see this
example. We intend to select the most common browsers and operating
systems to create screenshots and guidelines for.
(d) we're thinking that the standard download for Safari should be
a .zip file, so we can force users to download TiddlyWiki.jar at the
same time, making saving files much easier for first time users.
Thoughts?
> As well as getting your response to these amendments, I'd also like to
> ask for your *best possible examples* of TiddlyWiki in use. We've got
> lots of examples where it's been used as a wiki or a website; we're
> now looking for examples of applications or technical wizardry.
Here a couple of really creative TiddlyWiki customizations (collected
in my showcase TW - http://change.tiddlyspot.com/download - beware,
this is a 3.8 MB TW!) - choose yourself:
I'm a bit concerned that the nav menu is getting too cluttered (eight items is hard on the limit). I think some items could be rearranged - e.g. RSS as an icon somewhere in the header, Examples doesn't really belong into the main navigation IMO, Plugins could be a (prominent) item under Customization.
> 4. Installed Udo Borkowski's search plugin, without modifications
Definitely a good move. Design-wise, it doesn't really blend in very well at the moment - but those details can be tweaked at a later stage.
> 5. Tagline changed. [...] > So, "web notebook" is a recurring theme. I've gone for "the flexible > web notebook". Any objection?
I guess "flexible web notebook" is okay - but I don't like the definite article there.
It's a bit tricky to give response and fully separate between layout
and graphical design, but FWIW;
I agree with FNDs commend above that RSS could be e.g in the header.
Examples, however, do belong on the main menu as they must be very
easily found for newcomers, and this is the intuitive place to look
first.
Plugins: from a user perspective (or just mine?), plugins are actually
just (extended) features, and as such I think it could very well be
grouped into one main menu item, i.e "Features & Plugins".
Apropos Features - this tiddler is a bit scary with all the links. One
small improvement would perhaps be not to detail every possible text
formatting feature. Although we (ok, you) definitely have reasons to
be proud over "Monospaced", "Subheads", "Bulletpoints" etc etc - I'd
say it is kind of expected by an average user. Maybe chopping up the
whole tiddler with subheadings such as "Browser support", "Images",
"Languages" etc. Maybe even using sliders... (which also displays this
valuable feature... that ought to be integrated with Erics Nested
Sliders... lol ;-)
On avoiding lingo; I think "permaview" is an unclear term. Even some
thing like "snapshot" (or "link-snapshot" or even half-lingo "url-
snapshot"... or maybe even just "url" or "address"?) would be better.
Again, I think a potential user really wants to know straight away
that UsaMesa is non-profit and that the whole project is open source +
license.
I think "index" is a great term. I think "view" should be changed to
"edit >" also in only view mode, or possibly into "code>". And I think
that whole tiddler menu should be more visible, particularly since the
"close" item is pretty important and at the same time difficult to see
- and also because the whole idea of tiddlers is confusing for a
biginner particularly when no frame around them is visible in this
layout. (Just adding a very light gradient along the top or bottom
edge would make it easier to grasp the concept, me thinks).
"flexible web notebook" is excellent. Adding "the" is a bit cocky...
but I think it is deserved.
> > 4. Installed Udo Borkowski's search plugin, without modifications
> Definitely a good move.
> Design-wise, it doesn't really blend in very well at the moment - but
> those details can be tweaked at a later stage.
I agree. And the search facility is a vast improvement but you're
right it doesn't blend well. In fact it's ponderous and overwhelming
that's why I never really liked it. To me it's always returned so
much information and dominates the page so much it's almost
claustrophobic. It needs a serious trimming.
In my opinion Eric's SearchOptionsPlugin is a better choice in many
ways. Besides being much smaller in size, Eric has provided a
expansion capability for users to provide their own output interface
so they can customize the search results.
I think we're still searching for the best tag line "the flexible web
notebook" seems to fall quite a way short of TiddlyWiki's uses and
therefore a bit demeaning to it's true capabilities.
I suggest: TiddlyWiki - the magic carpet to linguistic nirvana
> > 2. Added "Examples" to the left hand navigation
> I'm a bit concerned that the nav menu is getting too cluttered (eight
> items is hard on the limit).
> I think some items could be rearranged - e.g. RSS as an icon somewhere
> in the header, Examples doesn't really belong into the main navigation
> IMO, Plugins could be a (prominent) item under Customization.
> > 4. Installed Udo Borkowski's search plugin, without modifications
> Definitely a good move.
> Design-wise, it doesn't really blend in very well at the moment - but
> those details can be tweaked at a later stage.
> > 5. Tagline changed. [...]
> > So, "web notebook" is a recurring theme. I've gone for "the flexible
> > web notebook". Any objection?
> I guess "flexible web notebook" is okay - but I don't like the definite
> article there.
Have made many changes, here are the details (and some requests for
further feedback):
> Wolfgang: Thanks for the examples, I've rolled those into the site. Can't quite believe that tiddlytools wasn't already on there! The UnaMesa link doesn't work by the way.
> FND / Amzg: I share your concerns about left hand nav. I'm really keen to move examples into there though, and will revisit this when we look at design (RSS will almost certainly be dealt with then as well)
> FND: Customisation already includes a link to Plugins, so I've removed Plugins from the left hand nav for sake of simplicity.
> FND / Amzg: Have decided to leave the tagline to a later day, to be considered with the redesign / branding topic, rather than risk having to change it twice.
> Amzg: Excellent idea about the Features headings, have had a go and generally cleaned up the content to make it more pleasant for first time users - see what you think! And is there anything missing?
> Amzg: swapping permaview with url seems like an obvious improvement! Anyone got a good reason why we shouldn't do this?
> Amzg: I'd like to park the view / edit issue for now, as it's tied into TiddlyWiki itself. But we'll consider this at a later date.
> Morris: Thanks for your comments about search. Have had a look at Eric's search tool, as well as Saq's, and would like to invite folks to check out all three and let me know what they think. I've rolled all the above-mentioned improvements into one TW file, and then done three versions of it just with the different search plugins. Let me know what you think guys!
> > Definitely a good move.
> > Design-wise, it doesn't really blend in very well at the moment - but
> > those details can be tweaked at a later stage.
> I agree. And the search facility is a vast improvement but you're
> right it doesn't blend well. In fact it's ponderous and overwhelming
> that's why I never really liked it. To me it's always returned so
> much information and dominates the page so much it's almost
> claustrophobic. It needs a serious trimming.
> In my opinion Eric's SearchOptionsPlugin is a better choice in many
> ways. Besides being much smaller in size, Eric has provided a
> expansion capability for users to provide their own output interface
> so they can customize the search results.
> I think we're still searching for the best tag line "the flexible web
> notebook" seems to fall quite a way short of TiddlyWiki's uses and
> therefore a bit demeaning to it's true capabilities.
> I suggest: TiddlyWiki - the magic carpet to linguistic nirvana
> > > 2. Added "Examples" to the left hand navigation
> > I'm a bit concerned that the nav menu is getting too cluttered (eight
> > items is hard on the limit).
> > I think some items could be rearranged - e.g. RSS as an icon somewhere
> > in the header, Examples doesn't really belong into the main navigation
> > IMO, Plugins could be a (prominent) item under Customization.
> > Definitely a good move.
> > Design-wise, it doesn't really blend in very well at the moment - but
> > those details can be tweaked at a later stage.
> > > 5. Tagline changed. [...]
> > > So, "web notebook" is a recurring theme. I've gone for "the flexible
> > > web notebook". Any objection?
> > I guess "flexible web notebook" is okay - but I don't like the definite
> > article there.
> > Morris: Thanks for your comments about search. Have had a look at Eric's search tool, as well as Saq's, and would like to invite folks to check out all three and let me know what they think. I've rolled all the above-mentioned improvements into one TW file, and then done three versions of it just with the different search plugins. Let me know what you think guys!
Please note that, by default, when TiddlyTools' SearchOptionsPlugin is
initially installed, the TW core standard search output (i.e.,
displaying all matching tiddlers) is still used. In order to really
appreciate the extra search features provided by this plugin, I
suggest that you explicitly set
config.options.chkSearchList=true;
(see "Configuration" section of SearchOptionsPlugin for additional
settings)
>> Amzg: swapping permaview with url seems like an obvious improvement! Anyone got a good reason why we shouldn't do this?
I don't think that "url" quite captures what the feature does. It's purpose is to capture the current sequence of open tiddlers so that they can be bookmarked or shared. To me, it's one of TiddlyWiki's key features that it provides a quick and transparent way to share specific custom views of microcontent. I think we'll struggle to come up with a short word or phrase that captures that meaning. I copped out originally by inventing the word "permaview", hoping that using a word that isn't laden with extraneous prior meaning would make it easier to signal that this was a new concept that invited users to explore and learn so that they could benefit from it. Of course, this logic rests on there being good ways for users to discover the meaning and function of features that they don't understand. TiddlyWiki only uses plain old tooltips for this, but no doubt there are opportunities to do it better.
Anyhow, how about a new slider labelled "share" that contains text like "to share a link automatically opens all these tiddlers, click here and then copy the URL from the browser address bar".
>> Amzg: I'd like to park the view / edit issue for now, as it's tied into TiddlyWiki itself. But we'll consider this at a later date.
>> Morris: Thanks for your comments about search. Have had a look at Eric's search tool, as well as Saq's, and would like to invite folks to check out all three and let me know what they think. I've rolled all the above-mentioned improvements into one TW file, and then done three versions of it just with the different search plugins. Let me know what you think guys!
> PS I'm still working on the download links and process...time > consuming stuff!
> Phil
> On Aug 5, 3:59 pm, Morris Gray <msg...@symbex.net.au> wrote: >> > > 4. Installed Udo Borkowski's search plugin, without modifications
>> > Definitely a good move. >> > Design-wise, it doesn't really blend in very well at the moment - but >> > those details can be tweaked at a later stage.
>> I agree. And the search facility is a vast improvement but you're >> right it doesn't blend well. In fact it's ponderous and overwhelming >> that's why I never really liked it. To me it's always returned so >> much information and dominates the page so much it's almost >> claustrophobic. It needs a serious trimming.
>> In my opinion Eric's SearchOptionsPlugin is a better choice in many >> ways. Besides being much smaller in size, Eric has provided a >> expansion capability for users to provide their own output interface >> so they can customize the search results.
>> I think we're still searching for the best tag line "the flexible web >> notebook" seems to fall quite a way short of TiddlyWiki's uses and >> therefore a bit demeaning to it's true capabilities.
>> I suggest: TiddlyWiki - the magic carpet to linguistic nirvana
>> > > 2. Added "Examples" to the left hand navigation
>> > I'm a bit concerned that the nav menu is getting too cluttered (eight >> > items is hard on the limit). >> > I think some items could be rearranged - e.g. RSS as an icon somewhere >> > in the header, Examples doesn't really belong into the main navigation >> > IMO, Plugins could be a (prominent) item under Customization.
>> > Definitely a good move. >> > Design-wise, it doesn't really blend in very well at the moment - but >> > those details can be tweaked at a later stage.
>> > > 5. Tagline changed. [...] >> > > So, "web notebook" is a recurring theme. I've gone for "the flexible >> > > web notebook". Any objection?
>> > I guess "flexible web notebook" is okay - but I don't like the definite >> > article there.
> > Wolfgang: Thanks for the examples, I've rolled those into the site. Can't quite believe that tiddlytools wasn't already on there! The UnaMesa link doesn't work by the way.
> > Morris: Thanks for your comments about search. Have had a look at Eric's search tool, as well as Saq's, and would like to invite folks to check out all three and let me know what they think. I've rolled all the above-mentioned improvements into one TW file, and then done three versions of it just with the different search plugins. Let me know what you think guys!
That's an interesting side by side comparison of 3 different search
extensions. Thanks for your efforts putting that up. However, it seems
I made my mind up already long ago - YourSearch is by far the best
plugin out there-
It simply beats any kind of navigation (be it sliders, tabs or tags)
for larger TiddlyWikis at great lengths. And by giving short previews
it shows with a quick glance if a particular find fits the bill - no
other search plugin does that.
YourSearch could also be easily customized with its shadowed
YourSearchStyleSheet to blend better with the custom TiddlyWiki Skin.
However - as it is for me now - it displays the right amount of
information in a clear enough format - for finding what I look for
with least detours.
You may consider this my heavily prejudiced opinion ;-)
> Anyhow, how about a new slider labelled "share" that contains text
> like "to share a link automatically opens all these tiddlers, click
> here and then copy the URL from the browser address bar".
As the first steps into TiddlyWiki lands: I think the label 'share'
would kindle the kind of curiosity in those who would make use of this
feature first anyway, and a very good idea. (in my private TWs I would
prefer something short as 'url' though)
> PS I'm still working on the download links and process...time
> consuming stuff!
* Phil, under "Hlep and support" there is a most likely unintentional
link to MainMenu in the middle of the text.
* I wouldn't really call "Jeremy Wagstaff's The Power of Tiddly" a
"tutorial or guide". Great positive article though.
* Actually, also to lower the threshold for first timers; how about a
"Try it live" link. True, it doesn't quite make sense for anyone in
the know - but that's just the thing, i.e beginners are not "in the
know" and this would be a teaser!
It could open a tiddler reading something along the lines of;
"You *are* actually using the very software right now. This whole
webpage is one example of what can be done with TiddlyWiki. If you
wish to view a tiddler "behind the scenes", i.e it's code, just double
click *anywhere* on it or choose "view" in the menu above. You can try
it right now, on this very tiddler! When in "view" mode, you
can ......"
* Why is actually "view" in the tiddler menu in bold text, and none of
the others?
* ..and, assuming the tags should stay visible after all - I'd still
like e.g a "tags" item in the tiddler menu, showing tags onHover -
but, assuming they stay as they are - why are they more visible (dark
blue font in gray box) than e.g the menu items? And not more invisible
when mouse is out of tiddler focus. Are they more important than the
menu?
*url vs permaview;
On Aug 8, 4:03 pm, "Jeremy Ruston" <jeremy.rus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think that "url" quite captures what the feature does. It's
> purpose is to capture the current sequence of open tiddlers so that
"Status url" !
> Anyhow, how about a new slider
Interesting idea! Or a onHover popup!
(spurs an idea: for beginners, how about spreading out onHover popups
with help info all over the place. And a checkbox to toggle it off
whenever the user has matured. Just a thought, but one I feel worth
mentioning because I would guess the threshold to pass make potential
uses turn on the doorstep (particularly for freeware, I'd guess
actually!))
Back to slider (or onHover) idea for "permaview" - one possible
problem would be that later referrals would either use the term that
was unclear to begin with or would also require a slider (onHover)...
* I think "Using your TiddlyWiki is misplaced in the Dowload tiddler.
A user would probably first want to read about using it and then (if
not even "in order to") decide to download. I suggest it go wherever a
newbie would look for it, which I'd guess would be in the MainMenu
(could be titled "TiddlyWiki ABC") or right in "Hello There".
* I think it's worth mentioning that there are some free hosts
specialized for tw (although it coudl be any server) that allows you
to access your TW "anywhere".
*Also in the Download instructions could you mention the wiki-on-a-
stick idea. (Actually, maybe also mentioning and including links to
the portable firefox versions... maybe even
http:portableapps.com ....)
*No installation instructinos for Linux? (Now with e.g Eee PC with
linux preinstalled spreading, I think also non power users are
beginning to use Linux)
* TiddlyWikiAdaptations should have a more prominent role, IMO. Maybe
a subheadline under Customizatino, e.g "Ready made customizations" or
"TiddlyWiki Variants"
> > Morris: Thanks for your comments about search. Have had a look at Eric's search tool, as well as Saq's, and would like to invite folks to check out all three and let me know what they think. I've rolled all the above-mentioned improvements into one TW file, and then done three versions of it just with the different search plugins. Let me know what you think guys!
Phil, Thanks for providing a side by side comparison of available
searches. May I add an extension to one of the plugins to the list as
well?
!Important I will reiterate what Eric said about SearchOptionsPlugin.
For Phil's test site you MUST got to the plugin itself and tick "Show
list of matches in SearchResults" to obtain the benefits of the
search.
I mentioned earlier that Eric provided a 'hook' into
SearchOptionsPlugin for anyone who wants to customize the search
results of SearchOptionsPlugin. I actually did this a couple of years
ago and have been using it on a daily basis ever since. The extension
results provides the tiddler title, the sizes of the tiddlers and the
tags in table form.
It's at: http://twhelp.tiddlyspot.com/#TwHelpSearchPlugin In TW Help
I chose to put the options for searching in titles, text and tags in
plain view which makes the search more specific and useful It also
has the option to hold the results of multiple searches if needed. Try
it while you're there.
I also implemented Saq's search into http://sidebarpluginvault.tiddlyspot.com/ some weeks ago because it works beautifully and fits nicely into the
sidebar. You can see it in operation there.
I think you're doing a great job Phil and thanks for devoting your
every free moment for the rest of your life to TiddlyWiki :-)
> Have made many changes, here are the details (and some requests for
> further feedback):
> > Wolfgang: Thanks for the examples, I've rolled those into the site. Can't quite believe that tiddlytools wasn't already on there! The UnaMesa link doesn't work by the way.
> > FND / Amzg: I share your concerns about left hand nav. I'm really keen to move examples into there though, and will revisit this when we look at design (RSS will almost certainly be dealt with then as well)
> > FND: Customisation already includes a link to Plugins, so I've removed Plugins from the left hand nav for sake of simplicity.
> > FND / Amzg: Have decided to leave the tagline to a later day, to be considered with the redesign / branding topic, rather than risk having to change it twice.
> > Amzg: Excellent idea about the Features headings, have had a go and generally cleaned up the content to make it more pleasant for first time users - see what you think! And is there anything missing?
> > Amzg: swapping permaview with url seems like an obvious improvement! Anyone got a good reason why we shouldn't do this?
> > Amzg: I'd like to park the view / edit issue for now, as it's tied into TiddlyWiki itself. But we'll consider this at a later date.
> > Morris: Thanks for your comments about search. Have had a look at Eric's search tool, as well as Saq's, and would like to invite folks to check out all three and let me know what they think. I've rolled all the above-mentioned improvements into one TW file, and then done three versions of it just with the different search plugins. Let me know what you think guys!
> > > Definitely a good move.
> > > Design-wise, it doesn't really blend in very well at the moment - but
> > > those details can be tweaked at a later stage.
> > I agree. And the search facility is a vast improvement but you're
> > right it doesn't blend well. In fact it's ponderous and overwhelming
> > that's why I never really liked it. To me it's always returned so
> > much information and dominates the page so much it's almost
> > claustrophobic. It needs a serious trimming.
> > In my opinion Eric's SearchOptionsPlugin is a better choice in many
> > ways. Besides being much smaller in size, Eric has provided a
> > expansion capability for users to provide their own output interface
> > so they can customize the search results.
> > I think we're still searching for the best tag line "the flexible web
> > notebook" seems to fall quite a way short of TiddlyWiki's uses and
> > therefore a bit demeaning to it's true capabilities.
> > I suggest: TiddlyWiki - the magic carpet to linguistic nirvana
> > > > 2. Added "Examples" to the left hand navigation
> > > I'm a bit concerned that the nav menu is getting too cluttered (eight
> > > items is hard on the limit).
> > > I think some items could be rearranged - e.g. RSS as an icon somewhere
> > > in the header, Examples doesn't really belong into the main navigation
> > > IMO, Plugins could be a (prominent) item under Customization.
> > > Definitely a good move.
> > > Design-wise, it doesn't really blend in very well at the moment - but
> > > those details can be tweaked at a later stage.
> > > > 5. Tagline changed. [...]
> > > > So, "web notebook" is a recurring theme. I've gone for "the flexible
> > > > web notebook". Any objection?
> > > I guess "flexible web notebook" is okay - but I don't like the definite
> > > article there.
I definitely like Saq's best. I never liked having a zillion tiddlers
open as in Eric's example, which seems very similar to the TW default
already.
And I have always found Udo's interface way too cluttered. I think
most people using their own files with their own content will be using
the search either as a quick way to get to a tiddler they already know
the title for, or they will know which tiddler has the content if they
can just see the list of possible tiddler titles. The snippet of the
tiddler text could, I suppose, be helpful to someone who completely
forgot where they put some information, or for when you are doing a
search in someone else's TiddlyWiki where you are unfamiliar with the
content, but most users will just want a clean and simple list of
tiddler titles, and having to mentally filter out all the other visual
clutter from Udo's search results will be a drain.
I use SearchOptionsPlugin (by Eric) which does the same as Saq's
example above, but puts the results in a tiddler. I still think that's
best, so that you stay focused on the tiddler viewing area. But Saq's
example above is a close runner up.
On Aug 9, 3:04 am, Morris Gray <msg...@symbex.net.au> wrote:
> !Important I will reiterate what Eric said about SearchOptionsPlugin.
> For Phil's test site you MUST got to the plugin itself and tick "Show
> list of matches in SearchResults" to obtain the benefits of the
> search.
Ahaaa - now I get where to find that setting! ...and, for the record;
Do as Eric and Morris says! It makes a BIG difference and I must say
it becomes a thing of BEUTY!
Phil: I think it would be fairer to pre-set this toggle active, now
when you wish us to compare these side-by-side. If possible.
(Eric: one additional feature I would like to see for it is a checkbox
a toggle to "preview text" as in Udo's version) (Dave; notice that
Udo's version is also an easily turned off toggle in the result-list.
Aesthetics aside, I think this feature of Udo's is very valuable at
times and this is the search plugin I personally have used so far.)
I think Saq's variant/layout is very very neat, even cute ;-) and
seems like the perfect alternative for whenever all this stuff becomes
popular for "small screen devices" which I'd guess probably is very
soon...
> I use SearchOptionsPlugin (by Eric) which does the same as Saq's
> example above, but puts the results in a tiddler. I still think that's
> best, so that you stay focused on the tiddler viewing area.
Would be nice if the would be the option to open the SearchResult
tiddler in a popup or a floating slider as the other two search
plugins do. Personally I prefer the tiddler display area as
uncluttered as possible and focused on actual content.
> And I have always found Udo's interface way too cluttered. I think
> most people using their own files with their own content will be using
> the search either as a quick way to get to a tiddler they already know
> the title for, or they will know which tiddler has the content if they
> can just see the list of possible tiddler titles. The snippet of the
> tiddler text could, I suppose, be helpful to someone who completely
> forgot where they put some information, or for when you are doing a
> search in someone else's TiddlyWiki where you are unfamiliar with the
> content, but most users will just want a clean and simple list of
> tiddler titles, and having to mentally filter out all the other visual
> clutter from Udo's search results will be a drain.
As already said, I think YourSearch best with **big** TiddlyWikis, and
not for going to tiddlers (GoToPlugin would do much better at that) to
actually search the content for particular terms. And with the preview
making it easier to know what the content of the tiddler is one is
about to open. Which is impossible with the 2 other plugins. The
difference is as if a Google search would display only the title of a
website..
We may not forget, newbies to TiddlyWiki do search "in someone
else'sTiddlyWiki" and will be truly unfamiliar with its content.
Let's say someone does a search for 'horizontal rule' and 'formatting'
- with the 3 TWs Phil put up:
Eric's and Saq's don't display any results - Udo's shows 2!
> I definitely like Saq's best. I never liked having a zillion tiddlers
> open as in Eric's example, which seems very similar to the TW default
> already.
> seems like the perfect alternative for whenever all this stuff becomes
> popular for "small screen devices" which I'd guess probably is very
> soon...
I agree - if the objective is to go to tiddlers with a particular term
on small screens - Saq's extension s the best.
And in the TiddlyBookmarklets tiddler one could load YourSearch to do
real searches ;-)
Thanks, nearly ready for a release I think! Here are the latest round
of improvements:
Wolfgang > UnaMesa link works fine, have added it to the site!
Amzg > I like the 'Try it now' idea and will consider this during the
broader redesign
Amzg > Example of installing on Linux was on the cards and is now
done.
Amzg > After giving this some thought, I've added a link to Getting
Started in the left hand nav. I agree it didn't make sense having
those links in the Download tiddler. I've also added a link to the
Getting Started content at the end of each set of installation
instructions.
Amzg > We've already mentioned USB sticks in HelloThere, would prefer
to avoid duplication of content for sake of brevity.
Amzg > We'd actually prefer to draw attention away from adaptations
(given that these all depend on old versions of TiddlyWiki) and focus
instead on plugins. Most of the best adaptations have been upgraded to
work with the plugin architecture now.
There's a list of things I'm parking for the sake of getting this
release out. They include:
- Any design issues, including but not limited to 'view' being bold,
tags issue.
- Slider / permaview > I'm going to park this one for now in the
interests of getting this release out.
- Drawing different attention to server side versions - we plan to
surface this in the redesign too.
So far as search is concerned, preferences seem to be leaning towards
Saq's and Eric's design (I've implemented the SearchOptionsPlugin
tweak now!). Eric's and Saq's have the least impact on file size too.
My personal preference is Eric's, so here they are again with all the
latest improvements, feel free to add further comments!
So the final changes I intend to make before putting forward a
candidate for release:
- Create a 'Download' button, which will automatically conduct a
browser detect, serve the correct download (html file or zip file
containing TiddlySaver), and open the appropriate installation
instructions.
- Implementation the final choice for Search
- Still cleaning up the installation instructions for Windows XP.
Cheers,
Phil
On Aug 9, 7:54 pm, wolfgang <wolfgangl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I use SearchOptionsPlugin (by Eric) which does the same as Saq's
> > example above, but puts the results in a tiddler. I still think that's
> > best, so that you stay focused on the tiddler viewing area.
> Would be nice if the would be the option to open the SearchResult
> tiddler in a popup or a floating slider as the other two search
> plugins do. Personally I prefer the tiddler display area as
> uncluttered as possible and focused on actual content.
> > And I have always found Udo's interface way too cluttered. I think
> > most people using their own files with their own content will be using
> > the search either as a quick way to get to a tiddler they already know
> > the title for, or they will know which tiddler has the content if they
> > can just see the list of possible tiddler titles. The snippet of the
> > tiddler text could, I suppose, be helpful to someone who completely
> > forgot where they put some information, or for when you are doing a
> > search in someone else's TiddlyWiki where you are unfamiliar with the
> > content, but most users will just want a clean and simple list of
> > tiddler titles, and having to mentally filter out all the other visual
> > clutter from Udo's search results will be a drain.
> As already said, I think YourSearch best with **big** TiddlyWikis, and
> not for going to tiddlers (GoToPlugin would do much better at that) to
> actually search the content for particular terms. And with the preview
> making it easier to know what the content of the tiddler is one is
> about to open. Which is impossible with the 2 other plugins. The
> difference is as if a Google search would display only the title of a
> website..
> We may not forget, newbies to TiddlyWiki do search "in someone
> else'sTiddlyWiki" and will be truly unfamiliar with its content.
> Let's say someone does a search for 'horizontal rule' and 'formatting'
> - with the 3 TWs Phil put up:
> Eric's and Saq's don't display any results - Udo's shows 2!
> > I definitely like Saq's best. I never liked having a zillion tiddlers
> > open as in Eric's example, which seems very similar to the TW default
> > already.
> > seems like the perfect alternative for whenever all this stuff becomes
> > popular for "small screen devices" which I'd guess probably is very
> > soon...
> I agree - if the objective is to go to tiddlers with a particular term
> on small screens - Saq's extension s the best.
> And in the TiddlyBookmarklets tiddler one could load YourSearch to do
> real searches ;-)
> Thanks, nearly ready for a release I think! Here are the latest round
> of improvements:
> Wolfgang > UnaMesa link works fine, have added it to the site!
> Amzg > I like the 'Try it now' idea and will consider this during the
> broader redesign
> Amzg > Example of installing on Linux was on the cards and is now
> done.
> Amzg > After giving this some thought, I've added a link to Getting
> Started in the left hand nav. I agree it didn't make sense having
> those links in the Download tiddler. I've also added a link to the
> Getting Started content at the end of each set of installation
> instructions.
> Amzg > We've already mentioned USB sticks in HelloThere, would prefer
> to avoid duplication of content for sake of brevity.
> Amzg > We'd actually prefer to draw attention away from adaptations
> (given that these all depend on old versions of TiddlyWiki) and focus
> instead on plugins. Most of the best adaptations have been upgraded to
> work with the plugin architecture now.
> There's a list of things I'm parking for the sake of getting this
> release out. They include:
> - Any design issues, including but not limited to 'view' being bold,
> tags issue.
> - Slider / permaview > I'm going to park this one for now in the
> interests of getting this release out.
> - Drawing different attention to server side versions - we plan to
> surface this in the redesign too.
> So far as search is concerned, preferences seem to be leaning towards
> Saq's and Eric's design (I've implemented the SearchOptionsPlugin
> tweak now!). Eric's and Saq's have the least impact on file size too.
> My personal preference is Eric's, so here they are again with all the
> latest improvements, feel free to add further comments!
> So the final changes I intend to make before putting forward a
> candidate for release:
> - Create a 'Download' button, which will automatically conduct a
> browser detect, serve the correct download (html file or zip file
> containing TiddlySaver), and open the appropriate installation
> instructions.
> - Implementation the final choice for Search
> - Still cleaning up the installation instructions for Windows XP.
> Cheers,
> Phil
> On Aug 9, 7:54 pm, wolfgang <wolfgangl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I use SearchOptionsPlugin (by Eric) which does the same as Saq's
> > > example above, but puts the results in a tiddler. I still think that's
> > > best, so that you stay focused on the tiddler viewing area.
> > Would be nice if the would be the option to open the SearchResult
> > tiddler in a popup or a floating slider as the other two search
> > plugins do. Personally I prefer the tiddler display area as
> > uncluttered as possible and focused on actual content.
> > > And I have always found Udo's interface way too cluttered. I think
> > > most people using their own files with their own content will be using
> > > the search either as a quick way to get to a tiddler they already know
> > > the title for, or they will know which tiddler has the content if they
> > > can just see the list of possible tiddler titles. The snippet of the
> > > tiddler text could, I suppose, be helpful to someone who completely
> > > forgot where they put some information, or for when you are doing a
> > > search in someone else's TiddlyWiki where you are unfamiliar with the
> > > content, but most users will just want a clean and simple list of
> > > tiddler titles, and having to mentally filter out all the other visual
> > > clutter from Udo's search results will be a drain.
> > As already said, I think YourSearch best with **big** TiddlyWikis, and
> > not for going to tiddlers (GoToPlugin would do much better at that) to
> > actually search the content for particular terms. And with the preview
> > making it easier to know what the content of the tiddler is one is
> > about to open. Which is impossible with the 2 other plugins. The
> > difference is as if a Google search would display only the title of a
> > website..
> > We may not forget, newbies to TiddlyWiki do search "in someone
> > else'sTiddlyWiki" and will be truly unfamiliar with its content.
> > Let's say someone does a search for 'horizontal rule' and 'formatting'
> > - with the 3 TWs Phil put up:
> > Eric's and Saq's don't display any results - Udo's shows 2!
> > > I definitely like Saq's best. I never liked having a zillion tiddlers
> > > open as in Eric's example, which seems very similar to the TW default
> > > already.
> > > seems like the perfect alternative for whenever all this stuff becomes
> > > popular for "small screen devices" which I'd guess probably is very
> > > soon...
> > I agree - if the objective is to go to tiddlers with a particular term
> > on small screens - Saq's extension s the best.
> > And in the TiddlyBookmarklets tiddler one could load YourSearch to do
> > real searches ;-)
> Eric's results are in a Tiddler so you can still go back and choose
> other results. and of course search with more options.
> I'm for search being part of the normal gui, and behaving in the same
> manner.
> D.
> On Aug 11, 5:26 pm, Phil Whitehouse <phil.whiteho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thanks, nearly ready for a release I think! Here are the latest round
> > of improvements:
> > Wolfgang > UnaMesa link works fine, have added it to the site!
> > Amzg > I like the 'Try it now' idea and will consider this during the
> > broader redesign
> > Amzg > Example of installing on Linux was on the cards and is now
> > done.
> > Amzg > After giving this some thought, I've added a link to Getting
> > Started in the left hand nav. I agree it didn't make sense having
> > those links in the Download tiddler. I've also added a link to the
> > Getting Started content at the end of each set of installation
> > instructions.
> > Amzg > We've already mentioned USB sticks in HelloThere, would prefer
> > to avoid duplication of content for sake of brevity.
> > Amzg > We'd actually prefer to draw attention away from adaptations
> > (given that these all depend on old versions of TiddlyWiki) and focus
> > instead on plugins. Most of the best adaptations have been upgraded to
> > work with the plugin architecture now.
> > There's a list of things I'm parking for the sake of getting this
> > release out. They include:
> > - Any design issues, including but not limited to 'view' being bold,
> > tags issue.
> > - Slider / permaview > I'm going to park this one for now in the
> > interests of getting this release out.
> > - Drawing different attention to server side versions - we plan to
> > surface this in the redesign too.
> > So far as search is concerned, preferences seem to be leaning towards
> > Saq's and Eric's design (I've implemented the SearchOptionsPlugin
> > tweak now!). Eric's and Saq's have the least impact on file size too.
> > My personal preference is Eric's, so here they are again with all the
> > latest improvements, feel free to add further comments!
> > So the final changes I intend to make before putting forward a
> > candidate for release:
> > - Create a 'Download' button, which will automatically conduct a
> > browser detect, serve the correct download (html file or zip file
> > containing TiddlySaver), and open the appropriate installation
> > instructions.
> > - Implementation the final choice for Search
> > - Still cleaning up the installation instructions for Windows XP.
> > Cheers,
> > Phil
> > On Aug 9, 7:54 pm, wolfgang <wolfgangl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I use SearchOptionsPlugin (by Eric) which does the same as Saq's
> > > > example above, but puts the results in a tiddler. I still think that's
> > > > best, so that you stay focused on the tiddler viewing area.
> > > Would be nice if the would be the option to open the SearchResult
> > > tiddler in a popup or a floating slider as the other two search
> > > plugins do. Personally I prefer the tiddler display area as
> > > uncluttered as possible and focused on actual content.
> > > > And I have always found Udo's interface way too cluttered. I think
> > > > most people using their own files with their own content will be using
> > > > the search either as a quick way to get to a tiddler they already know
> > > > the title for, or they will know which tiddler has the content if they
> > > > can just see the list of possible tiddler titles. The snippet of the
> > > > tiddler text could, I suppose, be helpful to someone who completely
> > > > forgot where they put some information, or for when you are doing a
> > > > search in someone else's TiddlyWiki where you are unfamiliar with the
> > > > content, but most users will just want a clean and simple list of
> > > > tiddler titles, and having to mentally filter out all the other visual
> > > > clutter from Udo's search results will be a drain.
> > > As already said, I think YourSearch best with **big** TiddlyWikis, and
> > > not for going to tiddlers (GoToPlugin would do much better at that) to
> > > actually search the content for particular terms. And with the preview
> > > making it easier to know what the content of the tiddler is one is
> > > about to open. Which is impossible with the 2 other plugins. The
> > > difference is as if a Google search would display only the title of a
> > > website..
> > > We may not forget, newbies to TiddlyWiki do search "in someone
> > > else'sTiddlyWiki" and will be truly unfamiliar with its content.
> > > Let's say someone does a search for 'horizontal rule' and 'formatting'
> > > - with the 3 TWs Phil put up:
> > > Eric's and Saq's don't display any results - Udo's shows 2!
> > > > I definitely like Saq's best. I never liked having a zillion tiddlers
> > > > open as in Eric's example, which seems very similar to the TW default
> > > > already.
> > > > seems like the perfect alternative for whenever all this stuff becomes
> > > > popular for "small screen devices" which I'd guess probably is very
> > > > soon...
> > > I agree - if the objective is to go to tiddlers with a particular term
> > > on small screens - Saq's extension s the best.
> > > And in the TiddlyBookmarklets tiddler one could load YourSearch to do
> > > real searches ;-)
> I've implemented the SearchOptionsPlugin tweak now!).
> Eric's and Saq's have the least impact on file size too.
> My personal preference is Eric's, so here they are again with all the
> latest improvements, feel free to add further comments!
* [[configTweaks]] tiddler should be a proper wikiword:
[[ConfigTweaks]].
* I've just updated SearchOptionsPlugin to change the initialization
of settings so that chkSearchList will be enabled by default. I also
enabled 'sort results by date' so that that the most recently edited
tiddlers will be listed first in the results. If SearchOptionsPlugin
is added to TW.com, this change to the defaults eliminates the need
for a separate ConfigTweaks tiddler (at least for this purpose).
> Amzg > We'd actually prefer to draw attention away from adaptations > (given that these all depend on old versions of TiddlyWiki) and focus > instead on plugins. Most of the best adaptations have been upgraded to > work with the plugin architecture now.
> Although I have to add that I love the default search behaviour, and
> it's cool info tip.
> It would be perhaps better to combine the two somehow, or have Eric's
> as a toggled option. but of course that means more work,
The enhanced functionality provided by SearchOptionsPlugin can be
completely enabled/disabled by using option checkboxes that are
included in the plugin documentation (see Configuration section).
Depending upon your preferences, you might want to copy some (or all)
of the search option checkboxes and display them directly in the
sidebar, following the actual search field... something like this:
<<search>>
<<option chkSearchIncremental>> key-by-key search
<<option chkSearchList>> show results in list
<<option chkSearchByDate>> sort results by date
etc.
You can, of course, 'hard code' the options any way you like, simply
by creating a [[ConfigTweaks]] tiddler (tagged with 'systemConfig')
containing the appropriate assignments.... e.g.:
config.options.chkSearchIncremental=true;
config.options.chkSearchList=false;
config.options.chkSearchByDate=false;
config.options.chkSearchShadows=false;
etc.
enjoy,
-e
Eric Shulman
TiddlyTools / ELS Design Studios
Hi all, I hope that if it's the wrong time for these comments you'll
just ignore my two cent contribution to what is already a terrific
page!
1. I know this train has already left the station, but I still think
the fact that one can't actually edit - or create new tiddlers to see
how things work - really detracts from the impact of the demo. I'm
not sure I would have been convinced to download without having had
the chance to see things in operation. A "sandbox" would be a great
addition.
(Apart from the reduction in functionality, having to put "view"
instead of "edit" on the toolbar causes confusion because the text
talks about "edit mode" and "read mode" and doesn't mention "view" at
all - and to me "view" suggests "read", not "edit". I don't have a
solution to propose, but I think it might even help just to spell out
explicitly in very first tiddler that the downloaded version will
allow you to "'edit' and not merely 'view' the contents of
tiddlers").
2. I think a general overview of the "parts" of a TW would really be
helpful. SpecialTiddlers, for example, seems like an important enough
tiddler that maybe it could be included in GettingStarted? (Note that
there's a small typo in the first sentence of SpecialTiddlers). I
even think a screenshot or two with arrows and labels (actual tiddler
titles) pointing to where everything is would be nice. (For example,
I think it can be confusing that the SideBarTabs "live" over on the
sidebar but are still just regular tiddlers like everything else. The
"Editing" tiddler says "If you can't see this field, click on this
link to reveal it", but that doesn't tell me how to find it on the
sidebar itself.)
3. The new download is great!
4. Re: searching. I depend on the preview feature of YourSearch, but
the discussion here has been fascinating to me because it demonstrates
that even at such a fundamental level, we all use TiddlyWiki
differently. I wonder if the search options Phil created (those were
fascinating to play around with!) could somehow be incorporated into
this new website as a graphic demonstration of how many ways there are
to do things in TW.
Sorry to go on for so long!
cmari
Looking at the latest links, I like Eric's the best. Just wanted to
get those 2 cents in.
Also, some of the confusion between view and edit that has been
mentioned here in the past and now repeated by cmari could be resolved
by allowing the editing features to be viewed on the Internet, or as
cmari says, have a sandbox. Since playing with TiddlyWiki is the best
way to learn it, I guess I would lean toward having the online TW look
and feel as much as possible like it does once you have downloaded it
and open it offline.
- Have restructured the Help and Support tiddler into subsections -
much easier to read now, I hope!
- XP installation guidelines now created - that's the last set for now
at least...
- Download instructions embedded into HelloThere tiddler (to push the
download link up the page, hopefully above the page fold) - still
accessible via Download tiddler / link.
- Implemented Eric's improvements to the search plugin - thanks Eric!
I'd quite like the search results to look like this though, are you
able to help with this please?
cmari > Comments better late than not at all, so thank you! We'll look
at a sandbox feature in the next round of changes. Thanks Dave also
for your comments on this.
cmari > I've fleshed out the SpecialTiddlers tiddler and included a
link to this in GettingStarted
Remaining steps:
- Finalise search results look and feel.
- Add download button, browser detect and browser specific file
serve / installation instructions
- Testing Download process
<giff...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Looking at the latest links, I like Eric's the best. Just wanted to
> get those 2 cents in.
> Also, some of the confusion between view and edit that has been
> mentioned here in the past and now repeated by cmari could be resolved
> by allowing the editing features to be viewed on the Internet, or as
> cmari says, have a sandbox. Since playing with TiddlyWiki is the best
> way to learn it, I guess I would lean toward having the online TW look
> and feel as much as possible like it does once you have downloaded it
> and open it offline.
I'm wondering about the way that the SearchOptionsPlugin delivers it's results into a special, temporary tiddler. It seems that people like the way that it allows search results to be persistent, so that you can browse them at leisure. I'm worried, though, about the way that it faces new users with a new concept: temporary tiddlers that have been generated by the system. It doesn't quite behave like the other tiddlers the user encounters as they learn TW (because of the way that if they edit it it'll get overwritten, and because it's temporary, and doesn't get saved). Furthermore, there's a good deal of the baggage around tiddlers that just isn't relevant to search results (references, syncing, etc.)
So, a question for Eric - how easy would it be to add an option to deliver the search results into a new, clean <DIV> that's fixed in place at the top of the story column, with it's own "close" link? It seems that such a presentation would retain the key advantages of the current approach, but allow us to keep the overall user experience more consistent by not blurring the concepts of a list of search results and a tiddler.
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Eric Shulman <elsdes...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Although I have to add that I love the default search behaviour, and >> it's cool info tip. >> It would be perhaps better to combine the two somehow, or have Eric's >> as a toggled option. but of course that means more work,
> The enhanced functionality provided by SearchOptionsPlugin can be > completely enabled/disabled by using option checkboxes that are > included in the plugin documentation (see Configuration section).
> Depending upon your preferences, you might want to copy some (or all) > of the search option checkboxes and display them directly in the > sidebar, following the actual search field... something like this: > <<search>> > <<option chkSearchIncremental>> key-by-key search > <<option chkSearchList>> show results in list > <<option chkSearchByDate>> sort results by date > etc.
> You can, of course, 'hard code' the options any way you like, simply > by creating a [[ConfigTweaks]] tiddler (tagged with 'systemConfig') > containing the appropriate assignments.... e.g.: > config.options.chkSearchIncremental=true; > config.options.chkSearchList=false; > config.options.chkSearchByDate=false; > config.options.chkSearchShadows=false; > etc.
> enjoy, > -e > Eric Shulman > TiddlyTools / ELS Design Studios
