TiddlyEconomicModel: I am daft to try this with TW.

[Alex Hough]

Hello all,

I have just met with a friend who wants some help with his site: http://jcsweb.biz/mef/index.htm
Is it just daft to start on a route using TW?
I can certainly make the homepage better with TW but after this???

Somewhere down the line data from a server would have to be imported into tiddlers. 
I have the opportunity to develop the project over a period of time but don't want to start if TW is just the wrong technology.

Eventually the client wants to import data in real time, do some calculations on it then have realtime graphs.

Any help much appreciated, and the guy has some money to spend.
 
On money...  If TW was this was used, I gather there no money *has* to change to use the technology.  I would some money to go to  unamesa though: what are other people doing about this? It would feel wrong to take advantage of TW and the community if it became involved in financial exchange. 

Alex

[wolfgang]

Hi Alex,

> On money... If TW was this was used, I gather there no money *has* to
> change to use the technology. I would some money to go to unamesa though:
> what are other people doing about this? It would feel wrong to take
> advantage of TW and the community if it became involved in financial
> exchange.

Obviously nobody here objects if you invest your time in some specific
application and get a bit richer by it. And certainly the community
would profit from it too..

(of course, if plugins are involved, I would always double check with
that particular plugin's license and the author of it - if he would
also be fine with)

Regards,

W.

Alex Hough schrieb:

[Alex Hough]

Hi Wolfgang,

I understand the point about plugins.

Somewhere down the line I will need them if I am to use TW as a front end for all the project.

There has to be graphs in tiddlers.  These are to come from a server. 
My question "is it daft to try this with TW?" is to try to find out if the work with the graphs would be possible.

Currently i have just used TW to spit up the contents into smaller chunks.  TW is really good for this.
Compare the TW version
http://r.a.hough.googlepages.com/M_E_F.html
with the old
http://jcsweb.biz/mef/index.htm

I just wonder if I am going to get into trouble later on if TW can't have the graphs. But if the graphs are objects there should be no problem.

Alex

[FND]

> I just wonder if I am going to get into trouble later on if TW can't
> have the graphs. But if the graphs are objects there should be no problem.

I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for, but you could look into
Google Chart:
http://code.google.com/apis/chart/
There's also Yahoo's YUI Charts, but that requires Flash:
http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/charts/
I would assume that both options are routed through the Google/Yahoo
servers though, so chances are that neither will work offline.

HTH.

-- F.

[JaredFreeman]

You're daft to use TiddlyWiki for this application IF:

* Your friend needs to analyze page hits to refine their site. There's
only one page in a TiddlyWiki, so there is no useful data to be had
about page hits.
* Your friend wants to use slick graphic design. So far, TW looks like
an improvement over the ...ugly... current site.
* You want to integrate cgi's tightly into the site. It may be tough
to call a cgi then return to the originating page in the TW.
* Your friend starts writing longer pages
* Your friend's customers come in mainly by Google or some other
engine which (1) finds terms that fulfill a user's query but (2)
plunks them onto the TW home page that does not have those terms
anywhere on it (because they're buried in another part of the TW).
This confusion will cost a few eyeballs, where a few is probably too
few to worry about in your friend's business, but a whole lot in a
consumer products business.

Best of luck in your decision.

Jared

[FND]

> There's only one page in a TiddlyWiki, so there is no useful data to
> be had about page hits.

Not quite correct (apparently... ):
http://www.tiddlywiki.org/wiki/Google_Analytics

Nevertheless, for the moment, I would agree that using TiddlyWiki as a
regular website is not a good idea:
http://www.tiddlywiki.org/wiki/TiddlyWiki_As_a_Website
These issues are being worked on, but there's no ETA yet.

> * Your friend starts writing longer pages

A server-side solution with on-demand loading is in the works - but
again, no ETA yet.

-- F.

[Saq Imtiaz]

On Jan 28, 2008 7:10 PM, JaredFreeman <fre...@aptima.com> wrote:

* Your friend wants to use slick graphic design. So far, TW looks like
an improvement over the ...ugly... current site.

The sky is the limit in terms of how much you can customize a TW's layout. Eg:
www.chocolatedividends.org

Yes, its a TiddlyWiki.
Cheers,
Saq

[Alex Hough]

Saq I am most impressed by the design. It has the feeling of chocolate .Chocolate dividends looks like a great project as well.

FND said "Nevertheless, for the moment, I would agree that using TiddlyWiki as a

regular website is not a good idea:"

The design features I think the site could benefit from TW are the tiddlers - the way the content is displayed in small chunks which can be closed. I don't mind not using TW but would feel like my vision for the design would be compromised if there was  no tiddler type microcontent.As far as my knowledge goes, this is unique to TW. Am I right?

Re cgi

Doesn't ccTiddly load data from a server? (I have just started to look at this and installed WAMP server) - i don't want to go too far down this route until i know more.

Alex

[FND]

> I don't mind not using TW but would feel like my vision for the
> design would be compromised if there was no tiddler type
> microcontent.As far as my knowledge goes, this is unique to TW.

IMO, micro-content is mainly an author feature, not a software feature.
That is, you can use a WordPress-powered blog for micro-content
publishing, and you can just as well use TiddlyWiki for macro-content.

However, in its implementation of the micro-content principle, TW is
probably unique.

Just keep in mind that not everyone has JavaScript activated (think
screen readers). If you're confident that your target audience fulfils
these basic requirements though, and don't care about search engines
indexing your content, there's little else stopping you from using TW as
a website.

-- F.

[Alex Hough]

IMO, micro-content is mainly an author feature, not a software feature.
That is, you can use a WordPress-powered blog for micro-content
publishing, and you can just as well use TiddlyWiki for macro-content.

Good point.  It would make it easier to write / edit in TW then publish in WordPress

[FND]

> It would make it easier to write / edit in TW then publish in WordPress

There's TiddlyBlogger:
http://boycook.wordpress.com/2007/10/11/tiddlyblogger-is-here/
Not sure how well it works though; I have yet to try this myself.

-- F.

[Alex Hough]

....things like this never stop amazing me.

I have spend the day tiddling with Bidix's rssReader - I have used yahoo pipes with it. I am very charmed by TW today.

Does anyone have experience of Pipes[1] in this context?

[1]http://pipes.yahoo.com/pipes/

On 29/01/2008, FND <Ace_...@gmx.net> wrote: