New Lipo Batts
Paul Knox
Richard Papa
Are you saying NO BMS? Sound like an awesome pack though. Just not sure
about no BMS with Lithium?
Cheers,
Rich
Nimbuzz
1) The EV Tech pack is claimed at 15 ah and you say "17ah ...that's 7AH
more than the ev tech packs. " I've not measured my EV Tech pack but it
seems to be more than 10ah. Is 10 ah all you have measured out of the
EV Tech packs?
2) I don't think you mean "no BMS" just that the BMS does not have a
low voltage cutoff -- It still should have thermal cut off and high
voltage cut off -- right?
Thanks,
Al
L-A-commuter
measure 14 or 15 ah before i reach the 32v mark.
DAVE
L-A-commuter
are SUPPOSED to start shipping their newest "Pro-Hub-2" this month
www.hobsonseats.com. These seats look sweet..especially when used with
my thudbuster seatpost. I think EV-Tech has them listed as well.
Paul Knox
I guess it depends on how much you pull out of the battery and how you ride
it but on my setup I can only get 10AH from the EV Tech packs.
Maybe Doug can confirm but I thought they moved the LV cutout up a little to
improve cycle life? I have 3 of those packs and I cant get more than 10AH
which is still very respectable though considering it only weighs 10lbs, I
would prefer that than short cycle life.
It does have a BMS if you look over at endless sphere you can see as I have
taken the lid off it! it just looks like it doesnt have LV cut off, that
isnt a problem for me as I have it on my controller and I also have my watts
up to keep an eye on it. I do want to check the short circuit protection
though as thats also important as the Point-1 batteries do cut out very
quickly, quicker than the fuse!
I will get the specs for the BMS up on the post, It may have LV cut off but
it didnt cut off and I was low down to 32V.
Id be amazed if you can get 15AH from the point-1 (EV TECH) batteries, you
may if you lightly load it so the volts do not drop but any sort of load
over 10A and it cuts it on all the cells that I have and I have some of the
newer versions of those batteries as well.
This little blue battery has been made especially for Mark! and is brand new
left the factory in mid December, Its a seriously powerful cell and would
certainly take a 750 tidalforce bike a long way.
I will take it out again this afternoon as the weather is better, I have a
bit of a hangover so some fresh air may do me good!! damn that red wine!!
:-)
All the best
Knoxie
Nimbuzz
clarification. I don't have my Drain Brain hooked up yet. When I use my
36v 15ah(?) EV Tech/Point 1 = EV pack I'm riding up hill, over a
mountain as fast as I can. As the pack is in a rear rack bag with
little cooling I get it warm enough to get to the thermal 'cut down'
(about 1/2 power) point that Doug described to me. I then switch to my
other pack for some time, after which my EV pack cools and I can switch
back to it for normal operation. During my 15 mile over mountain ride I
switch a total of 3 times. Besides going up hill I am also doing regen
coming downhill, however I have it timed so the major regen is on my TF
hub pack as it is well configured for regen.
I guess I must get my DB wired up so I can tell my ah used but as my TF
hub pack is 8ah it sure seemes to me that the EV pack is close to twice
that so I'm suprised to hear the 10ah figure -- but with no DB I could
very well be wrong.
Can someone else with a 15ah EV pack and a DB please chime in with
their stats?
Thanks,
Al
M750X
Paul Knox
I am not sure if some of the EV Tech packs had lower limits? the new blue
batery is definately better than the point-1, the point-1 though is still a
brilliant battery ( I have 2 of them) the blue battery has very little
voltage sag which indiactes to me it is capable of pulling peaks of 60A as
that is what it is specced to do, pulling 35A from it only drops the pack
voltage 1V it was only like 1.5 volts even half empty.
I did another 40 miles run today with it, my gosh my feet were getting
really cold at the end of it!! I couldnt wait to get in!! the battery was
great though, I was a little kinder to it today and only pulled 14AH out of
it, there was a lot left in the tank at the end of the ride as well.
If I had a more powerful rig I could test more amps, I may put a beefed up
xlyte controller on it and see what it can do, its certainly a very high
power high capacity battery indeed.
I know the threads have been bouncing with all this talk of Chinese Lithium
and the like but really they are making some high power light weight
batteries, get enough of these in a little car and you are off!!
Larry can you chip in on the capacity you see with the Point-1 batts?
Cheers
Paul
I need some heated socks???
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nimbuzz" <mar...@aol.com>
To: "TidalForce Forum" <Tidal...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 2:31 PM
Subject: [TF] Re: New Lipo Batts
>
deerfencer1
As I've been posting for a while now, I get almost exactly one hour run
time at close to full power draw off my double lipo pack over hilly
terrain, sometimes a bit less if I run them very hard. In reality I am
of course NOT running full throttle for that hour as I give the
batteries a break on any downhills, but use them full tilt on any
climbing. The very shortest cutout I've seen is around 40 minutes, and
that was riding very aggressively.
I have not had a DrainBrain in use for a long while now, but just got
back a replacement from Justin via Doug and will give you some hard
numbers as soon as I hook it up, but my memory sez I was getting an
average of about 10 Ah per pack, so 20 Ah for the double last summer
when I was riding with the DB. I will search through some of my old
ride posts here to confirm. Mile-wise I average between 20-30 miles
max, depending on the terrain and demands I put on the packs. Average
speed is consistently between 22-24 mph for the entire run, with 22-23
mph up graduated climbs off a fresh charge. The rides I did at Bash
Bish Falls last summer impressed me greatly as the grades were severe,
yet I still got an hours ride out of them--and had a ball! I can
usually average 25-26 mph for the first half hour if I'm really
cranking, then the speed steps down about 10-15% for the remainder of
the ride. In general I have been extremely pleased with the performance
of these packs as I frequently lock them into cruise control on 4-5
mile climbs without a hitch (twice per ride), and they don't blink.
Awesome! Even on the steepest grades I can usually keep the bike above
12 mph--and closer to 14 mph off a fresh charge. Given my weight (230
now) plus the bike and the packs, you're basically talking close to a
300 lb payload! To me this is damn impressive performance.
The advantages of the double pack as far as I can see are multiple: 1)
no low voltage cutouts until I'm about 45-50 minutes into the ride; I
can then usually milk the pack need be for as much as 5-6 miles at
reduced speed; 2) no thermal cutouts as the load is spread over the two
packs and I have never felt them to be more than mildly warm ever, even
after the hardest rides; 3) (and this is just a guess)--no damage to
the packs on high REGEN on very steep downhills such as Kirby Hill,
where I regularly hit 45 mph+ in full REGEN. The only evidence I have
that this is true is the fact that the packs continue to perform as new
after 8 months and over 2000 miles.
Paul, the new packs you're testing for Mark sound awesome, so please
keep us up to snuff on them as they are the first real contenders we've
had to compare to Doug's packs. Very encouraging to see that the tech
may truly be arriving here and now for our rides!
Hope this helps, and let's keep this thread going as it is the essence
of what this board is all about!
Larry
deerfencer1
I've been scratching my memory banks and am quite sure the very best
I've gottem out of Doug's packs in tandem is 23 Ah, with the last 4-5
Ah in limp mode. Average is closer to 18Ah, which translates to 22-32
miles range given the way I ride, which is full power turboX (28-32A)
CC on climbs and reduced/intermittent power on flats and downhills.
22-24 mph average speed with vigorous pedalling throughout and 50-75
minute ride time. I find I can milk these packs about 6 miles in non-X
reduced power mode with heavy pedalling on mild terrain once I get an
initial cutout warning sign that the packs are about done. This is one
of the things I love about these packs, i.e. even riding without a
meter, they give you enough warning to get home on as long as you're
within striking distance. I have yet to be stranded with them, and to
me that is everything!
Cheers,
Larry
Paul Knox
Yes that seems to be what I see with the packs, 10AH or 32V under load is
what you get, that is still very good and like I said I would rather that
they do this than damage the pack or cycle life.
This new battery is considerably more powerful if a little bigger and
heavier, what impressed me was the complete lack of sag under high amps and
also the capacity, we have yet to find out about LV cutout on the BMS but I
will get it confirmed, I took another ride yesterday with it and was mighty
impressed!
Cheers
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "deerfencer1" <deerf...@aol.com>
To: "TidalForce Forum" <Tidal...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 5:40 AM
Subject: [TF] Re: New Lipo Batts
>
deerfencer1
Knoxie,
I used to have the same problem on my road bike in cold weather. I've
solved it on Uma by going over to my insulated Muck boots when the
temps really drop. I know they're not the sexiest things going--and you
need a non-clip or combo pedal to ride with them (I have the campus
model pedals from Performance that clip on one side and are non-clip on
the other)-- but man are they dry and cozy--rated to -70F in fact! (I
basically live in these boots come winter for outside work, and they
have much better support than your average rubber boot.)
Plenty of other models if you don't want something as high as the 12"
Chore boot model, but one nice thing about the taller boot is it
protects your pants legs from the greasy chain. I had my original pair
for several years and finally wore them out! The new ones seem even
better, and I can't recommend this company's stuff highly enough. I've
tried probably a dozen different cold weather boots over the years and
most were far too bulky, lacked decent support for working/walking, and
weren't that warm besides. These slip on in two seconds and are simply
a pleasure to wear. The material is a soft and stretchy foam rubber
above with a heavier stiff rubber below.
http://www.muckbootsonline.com/chore_boot_muck_boots.html
Larry
deerfencer1
off them!! this is amazing!!>>
Wow, Paul, I'm going back over this thread to clarify the differences
between the two packs and it seems you're getting nearly double the Ahs
out of them vs the Point 1 packs most of us are riding--that IS
remarkable!
I wonder if Doug will pick up this new line. Any idea how they will be
priced, and when Mark intends to start offering them? I want one!
Cheers,
Larry
plasmadust
waiting on the first article items now.
If we get the test results at or near Koxie's, it will be a go on that
battery also.
BTW, we have 51.8V units being tested that go all the way up to 200Ah
at 200A continuous. Also have a 148V 94Ah, and yes, we intend to put
those in our car and drive off.
DC
Paul Knox
Yes the capacity of these packs is very impressive I do need to get the LV
cut off to be confirmed but they are definitely good for 15AH without going
in to the danger area on the low volts which is amazing, 2 of these on your
ride would almost double your range at the expense of a bit more weight.
The Point-1 packs are great though I'm in no way dissing them as I love them
and have 2 on the bike and 1 in test, I am so lucky to be able to play with
all this stuff and if anyone is in the UK is reading Mark at Team Hybrid is
going to revise the cost on the Lipo packs (they are coming down in price)
so contact him as he has stock left I would rip one off him if I didn't have
2 already!! he he.
You want to see the 48V Lipo its a beast! ha ha still not sure how on earth
I can connect it to the bike!! its crazy, I would prefer 2 of the 37V packs
to be honest and run them in series / parllel, in parallel you could pull
120A at 37V!! ha ha the Xlyte controller can be modified to do this by
adding in beefier fets and adding links to the busbar inside!! amazing or
what!! 4.4KW off the line!! ha ha I think you would win the traffic light
grand prix with that, just need a motor to take it!! ha ha.
Must get some heated socks Larry!! ha ha 2 hours in the saddle and my feet
are like Ice!!
Cheers
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "deerfencer1" <deerf...@aol.com>
To: "TidalForce Forum" <Tidal...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 4:02 PM
Subject: [TF] Re: New Lipo Batts
>
Steve Mooring
batt weigh? I could probably get closer to Vegas riding my bike with
that battery than I can with my CNG pickup!
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Tidal...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Tidal...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of plasmadust
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:19 AM
To: TidalForce Forum
Subject: [TF] Re: New Lipo Batts
Steve Mooring
rating and how much does it weigh?
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Tidal...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Tidal...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Paul Knox
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:21 AM
To: Tidal...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [TF] Re: New Lipo Batts
Hello Larry
Cheers
Paul
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 4:02 PM
Subject: [TF] Re: New Lipo Batts
>
Nimbuzz
fit in yer shoes -- but not tight to curb circulation -- a tip from
Wisconisn -- where I grew up!
Al
Paul Knox
Thanks I will try that, I have looked at those socks with batteries in but i
think they will suck? they use a D cell in each for and retail for around 20
pounds or so, I would make my own with a couple of wire wound resistors its
just where to put them!!
I think I will go to the Edinburgh wool shop in town and get some, if my
feet get cold I will drop a couple of wirewound resistors in my toes!
Cheers
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nimbuzz" <mar...@aol.com>
To: "TidalForce Forum" <Tidal...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 6:01 AM
Subject: [TF] Re: New Lipo Batts
>
Paul Knox
The 48V Lipo is 20AH rated (60A Peak) 45A continuous and it is as follows
48V 20AH (265 x 160 x 150) Length, Depth, Height in mm (9.1kg)
It may be alittle too big for bike applications It would suit being mounted
low down in the frame.
I need to get and test it soon and will have to devise a way of doing so
easily, its a little too heavy to have on my back for any length of time and
its a lot of weight high up on me, I think I will get an Xtracycle!!
Steve Mooring
Steve
________________________________
Paul Knox
Yes this is still quite a new battery however compared to other chemistries
it is very light for its energy density, lower down the better for handling
I find too much weight up tops makes the bikes very twitchy when cornering,
esp in the wet! In an ideal world mine would be about where my bottom
bracket is!! tricky to do with peddles and a chainring!!
Cheers
Knoxie
Steve Mooring
L-A-commuter
for biking in california since November or so. (89°F,... 31°C)
Single EV-Tech Point 1 Li-poly with about 50 charging cycles:
230 lb rider on a flat course along the L.A. river:
750Sx (turbo not used for this ride)
I wrote the following #'s after my drain-brain said I'd used 10ah:
10ah used
travelled 16 miles @ 17 mph avg speed for 55 min
36.2 volts remaining
367 watt hours @ 22.6 W/H per mile
Finished the ride @ 12ah used before I noticed performance hit.
DAVE
Nimbuzz
called 15ah 36v, Lithium)
However, how much pedaling were you doing?
Thanks,
Al