What is your experience with Hi-PoweredCycle ?

[Jerome Daoust]

In a separate topic:
http://groups.google.com/group/Tidalforce/browse_thread/thread/268850422b37f22d
I am looking for a second ebike, and for what i'm looking for (under
$3000, under 50 lb without batteries, and at least 20 mph on motor
alone) this company seems to have an ebike that fits my needs in their
"Road Legal High Performance Electric Comfort Bicycle":
http://www.hi-powercycles.com/product.sc?categoryId=3&productId=7

But I don't see much discussion in this forum about this company
http://www.hi-powercycles.com
Is there something I should be aware of?
I sent them some questions by email and notice there wasn't a contact
phone number which makes me wonder how future customer service may be.

I would appreciate you thoughts on this company, and if they serve
well their clients in Southern California.

Thank you,
Jerome

[bill_von]

On Sep 16, 1:59 pm, Jerome Daoust <EyesToThe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In a separate topic:http://groups.google.com/group/Tidalforce/browse_thread/thread/268850...

> I am looking for a second ebike, and for what i'm looking for (under
> $3000, under 50 lb without batteries, and at least 20 mph on motor
> alone) this company seems to have an ebike that fits my needs in their
> "Road Legal High Performance Electric Comfort Bicycle":http://www.hi-powercycles.com/product.sc?categoryId=3&productId=7

That picture scares me.

1) It's an aluminum frame with a 750 watt motor and no torque arms.
2) The motor isn't connected to anything.
3) The battery doesn't look like it's connected to anything.
4) There's no throttle.

Looks like they just bolted a hub motor on a regular bike for the
picture. They didn't even bother to reconnect the rear brake. I
think I'd want to see a little more info on their bikes before trying
any of their products.

[deerfencer1]

Looks like an "instant business"-type website, so I would proceed
cautiously. There was a fellow (very briefly) selling high voltage,
high speed e-bikes along these lines on eBay a couple years ago.
Something tells me this might be the same guy. I would note that
anything much above 48V tends to be prone to controller problems, at
least if you believe the many posts over at Endless Sphere. Our old
friend Knoxie there has played lots with 72V setups and last I looked
doesn't recommend them for this very reason--TOO much damn power can
lead to blown fets, boards, etc.

Personally I have ridden 24, 36, and 48V e-bikes and think 48V is the
ideal for a performance e-bike with a 200+ lb rider, especially over
hilly terrain. More than 48V is simply overkill IMO, and requires more
battery, better brakes, stronger frames, etc. since it puts the
machine out of the power-assist category and into e-motoville. My SX
draws such high amps that it fits my needs at 36V (Uma pulls
1100-1200W continuous average off a fresh charge @ 30-34A), but I am
always on the lookout for packs that will push the 46V envelope the WC
X bikes are capable of.


LH

On Sep 16, 4:59 pm, Jerome Daoust <EyesToThe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In a separate topic:http://groups.google.com/group/Tidalforce/browse_thread/thread/268850...

> I am looking for a second ebike, and for what i'm looking for (under
> $3000, under 50 lb without batteries, and at least 20 mph on motor
> alone) this company seems to have an ebike that fits my needs in their
> "Road Legal High Performance Electric Comfort Bicycle":http://www.hi-powercycles.com/product.sc?categoryId=3&productId=7
>

> But I don't see much discussion in this forum about this companyhttp://www.hi-powercycles.com

[plasmadust]

No phone.
No address.
No web ranking. O.K., it is a new site so would not expect much there.
No names. Read what you may there.
The motor is good, and I and a lot of other people can attest to that.
Note to Jerome: this motor will get you 22.5 with ease on a 36V
battery. I can spin up to 25 or so with out killing myself.
The newer 1000W gets 30mph, and at 48V we see 40mph.
DC

[Jerome Daoust]

Thanks for the replies.

I want to buy an ebike that is mainstream: Many similar ones already
sold and with an existing customer base so I will not be the only one
to complain when there are known problems. This does not seem to be
the case (yet).

I emailed the URL of this discussion to Chris (represents the company)
so he can participate if he wants to.

[Jerome Daoust]

I have to say...
Chris from Hi-PoweredCycles is quick to reply by email and seems nice
enough and provides info on his products.

To see one of their models on video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y35IVvZkVw&fmt=18

[hillclimber]

I have met him and tested a 48v model. College student with
engineering smarts and a new web-marketing attempt.

Speed and torque as advertised!! Not sure which batteries he uses but
they were 2- small 24v bricks wired for 48v. All components are good
and lightweight- a major step away form TF "SUV bikes".

Good basic Schwinn frame - which can be changed to your preference.
Battery on the post mounted rack is probably OK for street riding, but
I would like to see an alternate mount in the frame or a rigid rack
for the heavier, longer range batteries (15ah+).

Of course he has torque arms. he even sells them separate.

He is on top of the electrical mods for both controller and motor, and
according to his post on Endless Sphere, he has collaborated with
BMC , US office in the Valley, (Van Nuys/LA)to have them produce newer
models with more torque and speed which will be available soon.

Keep an eye out for the latest word. He is more present on Endless
Sphere.

My next bike will probably be based on his 48v, hi-torque BMC/Lipo.

[OptOut]

Ahh hillclimber, good stuff! Thanks for posting.

Best,
Joe (mobile)

[Jerome Daoust]

I'm copying here part of my posting in another discussion:
http://groups.google.com/group/Tidalforce/msg/1d7b659fb2e77ed7

I just got off the phone with Chris Hunt of Hi-Powered Cycles. Nice
guy and he is based in Southern California (convenient for me). I like
the fact that the battery can be easily removed and then the transport
weight is down to about 45 lb for a bike with full suspension. Lots of
battery options to fit one's desired range. And the whole package is
well priced (under $3000). The only issue is that it is a young
company.


After I get my Optibike 800Li at the end of this month, myself and
Chris plan to meet and compare rides, since we are only about an hour
away from each other (if no traffic). That should be interesting.
Showdown at hi-noon?

I have encouraged Chris to join and participate on this forum, if only
to answer questions. Hopefully he will do that and join other
manufacturers already here.

[Jerome Daoust]

Copied from http://groups.google.com/group/Tidalforce/msg/fd34aaa1bc2bcfa6

I've seen these bikes locally & seem to be good value & lightweight.
I like the 67V X-treme - 38 MPH top speed! It has disc brakes, I
hope???
- 28 mile range
Price: $2,675.00

rem

[Bike_on]

Jerome,

I suspect the weak link with these bikes will be the Li-poly
technology. With the high current controllers, the battery life will
be short. Based upon the weight specified, I don't think they are
sizing the battery with extra capacity inorder to handle the C rating.

Example:
Li-poly WANTS to be run a 0.5C. Life at 1C will be around 300 cycles
at best. If the controller draws 25A continuous, then you would want
a battery with 25Ahrs++ 30 Ahrs at least. How many Ahrs do these
bikes have?

Dan

On Sep 17, 7:27 pm, Jerome Daoust <EyesToThe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Copied fromhttp://groups.google.com/group/Tidalforce/msg/fd34aaa1bc2bcfa6

[Jerome Daoust]

It seems I was able to convice Chris Hunt (Hi-Power Cycles) to
register to this forum, so he should be able to address your concern
when his registration clears.

> > rem- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Geo Rider]

Welcome to hi power cycles who just joined the group.

Best,
Joe

On Sep 16, 4:59 pm, Jerome Daoust <EyesToThe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In a separate topic:http://groups.google.com/group/Tidalforce/browse_thread/thread/268850...

> I am looking for a second ebike, and for what i'm looking for (under
> $3000, under 50 lb without batteries, and at least 20 mph on motor
> alone) this company seems to have an ebike that fits my needs in their
> "Road Legal High Performance Electric Comfort Bicycle":http://www.hi-powercycles.com/product.sc?categoryId=3&productId=7
>

> But I don't see much discussion in this forum about this companyhttp://www.hi-powercycles.com

[OptOut]

Yup,
He's a new member.
You're starting to grow on me Jerome.

Best,
Joe (mobile)

On Sep 19, 2008, at 4:58 PM, Jerome Daoust <EyesTo...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[hipowercycles]

Hello to everybody on this forum!

To address Bike-on's concern...Our Lipo batteries get around 500
cycles of average use. Some of our early prototype batteries still
work fine after 3 years of use (600-700 cycles). We are using high end
lipo cells. Our smallest pack is rated for continuous drain of 40A,
60A peak, and that is with our 8AH cells. We also offer a 56V 10AH
lipo pack rated to drain 300A CONTINUOUS and 450A peak. (Yes, 30C
continuous). There will never be a problem with a controller working
the batteries too hard. Our most powerful controller is a 35A at the
moment. The cells work perfectly with this setup and are not burdened
whatsoever. The customer can choose whatever lipo pack he or she
prefers.
We also sell lifepo4 packs in 10AH, 12AH, 16AH, and 20AH
configurations. However, I much prefer the lighter weight and sporty
feel of our bikes with the Lipo packs. Lifepo4 packs have an energy
density of about 110 wh/kg while our lipos are 170 wh/kg... 55%
lighter!

Lower quality lipo cells want to be run at .5c, not ours!

On Sep 18, 12:19 pm, Bike_on <therowe...@verizon.net> wrote:

[Bike_on]

Hello HPC,

Thanks for your post and promt addressing of the battery specs. I
challenge you to make me a believer that your li-poly batteries can
run at 5C and 30C continuous, and still get 500-700 cycles.

Please answer these questions:
Who makes the battery? What country?

What chemistry? LiCo, LiMn, Li other?

What is the cell nominal voltage? Peak charged voltage?

How many cells are in the battery stack?

Do you have BMS?

What is the cut off voltage?

Is it fused?

Anything else you can tell us about the batteries?

BTW, I commend you on your design with a 48V+ source and geared hub, I
think that is a great speed/torque/weight combo for a hub.

Regards,

Dan

[Jerome Daoust]

On Sep 22, 11:21 am, Bike_on <therowe...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Hello HPC,
>
> Thanks for your post and promt addressing of the battery specs.  I
> challenge you to make me a believer that your li-poly batteries can
> run at 5C and 30C continuous, and still get 500-700 cycles.

To Chris...

I understand it must create extra work right now for you to answer
challenging questions on forums, but I believe it will pay off for you
in the long run if you do. I'm not as knowledgable as Dan on battery
issues, but if you manage to put his mind at rest, it will go a long
way towards generating confidence in me and probably many other
readers.

Good rides,
Jerome

[Bike_on]

Hello High Power Cycles,

I repeat by request and challenge:

Thanks for your post and prompt addressing of the battery specs. I

challenge you to make me a believer that your li-poly batteries can
run at 5C and 30C continuous, and still get 500-700 cycles.

Please answer these questions:
Who makes the battery? What country?


What chemistry? LiCo, LiMn, Li other?


What is the cell nominal voltage? Peak charged voltage?


How many cells are in the battery stack?


Do you have BMS?


What is the cut off voltage?


Is it fused?


Anything else you can tell us about the batteries?

Expectantly Waiting,

Dan

[Jerome Daoust]

Dan wrote...

> Hello High Power Cycles,
> I repeat by request and challenge:

My understanding is that Chris Hunt is travelling at the moment.
Hopefully when he gets some time, he can answer the questions above
and tell us more about the new motors he is expecting: Up to 1200 W
brushless and gearless, if I recall correctly.

Jerome

[hipowercycles]

Hello,
Sorry for the delay. I have been away on business for a while...

Dan,
you are absolutely correct that if we were to run our 5c or 30c
battery packs at maximum capacity, they would not last 500-700 cycles.
The fact of the matter is, even using a 35A crystalyte controller
paired with our motors, most users will not even get close to
exceeding 20A continuous over the duration of their trip. With our
smallest 8AH packs, this means that it is unlikely that the batteries
will exceed a 2.5c drain over any extended period of time. From first
hand experience, along with proper storage at 60% capacity in a room
with an average temperature of 20 degrees Celcius, you will get 500
cycles or more of regular use with our batteries.

Without giving away too much proprietary information,
Our cells are of LiCoO2 format. They are custom manufactured for us
from our supplier in China. Nominal cell voltage is 3.7v per cell. Our
56v system is comprised of 15 cells. This equates to 55.5v nominal.
Peak voltage is 4.2v per cell, so a fully charged 55.5v pack will max
out at 63 volts. Yes, our packs employ a custom BMS that offers:
over-charge, over-discharge, short circuit, and reverse polarity
protection. It also offers individual cell balance. We also set the
BMS up to allow discharge at 40A maximum for continuous periods,
although the controller only allows for 35A continuous.

In case people are not aware, even 35A crystalyte controllers will not
allow a true current draw of 35A continuous... I will show this when I
put up comparison tests of our BMC made "true rated" 30A and 35A
controller which both offer more torque and higher current
capabilities.

By the way, for anyone interested, we just received some samples of
our high power 600W brushless, geared hub motor! Check out youtube in
the coming days for video updates! This motor is capable of providing
50% more power than the old motor! Also of note, I weighed it today
and it came in at only 8.9 lbs!


On Sep 30, 12:40 pm, Bike_on <therowe...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Hello HighPowerCycles,

[Bike_on]

HP-

Very informative and forthcomng post. Thanks.

Your high operating voltage (55.5V) gives you a real edge for battery
thermal management. I can see how an 8Ahr would work well at
500-600W.

To match the Optibike 800W power, you will be drawing about 20.6A with
70% eff drive. Thus, your LiCoO2 pack will be working at 2.5C. I
ride an Optibike and reguarly depend on full throttle for extended
times for speeds in the upper 20's to maintain. Opti has a 25Ahr
LiCoO2 battery and run at 22A cont. at full power, so less than 1C.
For the weight, Ithink your set up needs another 8Ahr to be robust.
IMO.

Please help me with rating the motor. If you have a 600W BMC, is that
for 36V? I assume if you up the voltage to 55.5V, with the same
controller, you can get more power and speed, but you surpass the
rating?

Dan

> > >    Jerome- Hide quoted text -

[Richard Papa]

Hello Hi-PoweredCycles & welcome to our group!

It's always especially nice when the MFGs come to talk to their market
through open forums. And we seem to attract the best! So thanks for that
and please keep us posted on your developments. And please post any
weblinks to videos ect... it all helps our readers.

But I too get very skeptical when these cheap packs come along with high
cycle rates advertised. This place is a good place to put to practice
though. So with a bit of luck we can confirm or deny your claims. It's all
good though.

I would also like to add that it's really a good idea to try and be as open
and honest as you can when dealing on these forums. As it can come back to
bite you hard when/if things go wrong. Just some friendly advise from
someone who truly cares about all you guys making your business work. There
is so few promoting this stuff, we need MUCH MORE!

Take care,

Rich

Btw, Our TF bikes are at least 30 amps continuous and 60 amp peak. If your
packs lasted 300 DOD cycles then they are well worth the money! And don't
forget, Paralleling two smaller packs could increase the cycle life even
more and benefit our rides with less V sag. Also this would improve the
efficiency of the packs. This approach seems best suited for these types of
packs and our rides. Just something to consider.

[Jérôme Daoust]

Can we change this discussion's title to "What is your experience with Hi-PowerCycles ?"

I got the company name wrong when I started it.

 

From the website's testimonial page:

http://www.hi-powercycles.com/category.sc?categoryId=6

this guy seems happy...

 

Officer James Hill, Seabrook Police Department

 

Hey Chris, we had a direct hit from Hurricane Ike. The City of Seabrook suffered MAJOR damage and a complete collapse of infrastructure. I can not convey in words how bad it is. We were hit by a 16 1/2 foot storm surge of water plus 110 mph winds. All I can say is it was complete devastation. Our police department building was flooded and half of our department was trapped on the 2nd floor until the water receded. The other half of the department was in was trapped at our local Holiday Inn Hotel. We did this so at least one half of the department could be functioning. After the storm, we emerged and secured our city. That was on Sat. Sept. 12th. By Monday morning the 14th we were out of fuel. I was ordered out on bike patrol because we did not have enough fuel to run our patrol cars. We had numerous agencies helping us and it consumed all of our fuel supply. FEMA was not able to get fuel to us until the 16th. Our police bikes were stored at the Police Station and destroyed by the storm surge. We were only able to get one functioning. Luckily I had taken the bike you and your partner built for me to work before the storm. I was able to use the bike in a real world disaster zone. The bike was the only way to access certain areas in the aftermath of the storm. Unfortunately I had left my bike helmet in my car which was flooded and a lost. I found a bike helmet in a ditch and used it for 2 days until a store opened and I could buy another one. I want you to know your bike Saved lives. I could not have accessed certain areas of the city with out it. There were broken gas lines, fuel spills from boats plus sand and tons of debris every where. The bike has been thru Hell and back along with me. Just today I was riding with my partner and we were flagged down about on a man beating up a female. I was able to catch and tackle the Suspect who never saw or heard me coming. I had to responded to a 84 year old elderly female who had fallen literally split her skull open about 7 inches. I beat all other units to the scene and was able to apply direct pressure and stop the bleeding. The bike is being used constantly with the batteries being charged back up as soon as they go dead. Today was the 1st day I got to go home to my family and send you this Email. Even though my house is damaged I felt it was necessary let you know what is going on while everything is fresh in my mind. I have attached three pictures because I wanted you to personally see what your bike is doing. There were lots of people taking pictures so I will try to find more later. I now work everyday on bike patrol. The looters are everywhere and the bike is a must have at this point. I work 12 hours on and 12 hours off with no days off. The bike is taking some very serious abuse but it is still functioning. I just wanted to say thank you for making me a very good bike that is saving lives including my own. When the SHIT hit the fan your bike had my back and I thank you for it.

 

Sincerely James Hill,

Patrol Officer Seabrook Police Dept.

[OptOut]

Name changed. May not stick though. 

Best,

Joe (mobile)

<JamesHill_1.jpg>

[hipowercycles]

Hello again everybody,

Thanks for the input. We actually do sell 16AH 5 and 10c packs. BMS
are all set for 40A continuous on our Lipo packs. Our packs are not
necessarily "cheap," but are of very high quality. The "600w motor" is
a factory continuous rating. It is normal to well exceed this number
for normal day to day use. 16AH packs would be optimal for increased
longevity, however, most of our customers opt for the low weight (6
lbs or less for the battery system).

For anyone interested, I am updating the website tonight with battery
systems. We have new Lifepo4 packs as well. 38.4v and 51.2v (nominal)
10AH, and 15AH, and 20AH packs. All are rated at 1500 cycles. Weight
of 51.2v 10AH is 10.1 lbs, 15AH is 14.7 lbs, and 20AH is about 19
lbs.

BMS for 10AH and 15AH are 35A with 50A capability for a few minutes at
a time. TBD on the 20AH pack.

By the way, I think Optibikes are fantastic. They are our benchmark
for performance and innovation! Take care.

On Oct 1, 8:34 am, "Richard Papa" <papap...@btconnect.com> wrote:
> HelloHi-PoweredCycles & welcome to our group!

> Subject: [TF] Re: What is your experience withHi-PoweredCycle ?

> our highpower600W brushless, geared hub motor! Check out youtube in

> the coming days for video updates! This motor is capable of providing

> 50% morepowerthan the old motor! Also of note, I weighed it today

[Jerome Daoust]

Thanks for the good info Chris (Hi-Power Cycles).

From your website, I could not determine by what method we can know
the remaining energy (or voltage) in the battery, as we are riding
along. Is there a display of the battery level (LED lights or
numerical voltage)?

Thanks, Jerome

[hipowercycles]

We use a standard LED throttle for voltage indication. For more
detailed information, we sell the Cycle Analyst for direct plug and
play into the crystalyte controllers.

[Jerome Daoust]

Chris Hunt (hi-power cycles) wrote:
> We use a standard LED throttle for voltage indication. For more
> detailed information, we sell the Cycle Analyst for direct plug and
> play into the crystalyte controllers.

Sounds good Chris.
Please add the info to your website, so it will be obvious to others.

I see you added info about the new batteries (separate discussion):
http://groups.google.com/group/Tidalforce/browse_thread/thread/8b33f842ac43770f#