Rmartin bikes

[neoplasticity]

has anyone had any experience with this?

http://www.rmartinbikes.com/R10_electric_bicycle.html

Looks like a cheaper version of the optibike.

[Bike_on]

Yes, REALLY cheap effort.

R10: 8Ahr, 200W at 60lbs.

Opti: 20Ahrs, 800W at 57lbs.

I applaud the chain driven design, but woa be the power.

DR

[OptOut]

Dear DR,
"Cheap" implies negatives like shabby construction and materials. Is
that what you meant?
200 Watts of assist power is plenty for some people and
circumstances. Heck, I'm often happy with zero.
Have you had personal experience with martin bikes?

Best,
Joe (mobile)

[deerfencer1]

This is one I've not seen, and aesthetically at least looks clean and
well done. But I have the same concerns as Dan re the minimal power,
especially on steep terrain, and would like to see some real world
ride reviews before even considering it, especially given the very
minimal information offered on their website. I wonder if DC knows
anything about these.

LH

On Feb 16, 5:05 pm, neoplasticity <neoen...@gmail.com> wrote:

[neoplasticity]

yeah, i like the motor attached to the bottom bracket design like the
optibike and this looked interesting and i was hoping that maybe
someone here had ridden one or knew of someone who had ridden one and
might give some input on it. i'd love to get an optibike but their
price point is way out of my league and these seemed like something
that might work for me... but i wouldn't want to buy without some
external review of it.

[Bike_on]

Joe,

I was treferring to "cheap" in the post == less $$, and making a play
on word == cheap results.

(Looks like a cheaper version of the optibike.)

If all you need is 200W, then it may be better than a hub - center of
gravity, efficiency, components can handle 15mph.

Instead of referencing the Optibike, which is in a different class of
perfromance than this one, it should be referred to as a gear driving
design vs. hub. IMO.

Dan

> > > Looks like a cheaper version of the optibike.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Jerome Daoust]

Good find, I created a parallel topic on Endless-Sphere to see if
anyone has experience with it there:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8715

- Jerome

[bill_von]

On Feb 16, 7:22 pm, Bike_on <therowe...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Yes, REALLY cheap effort.
>
> R10: 8Ahr, 200W at 60lbs.
>
> Opti: 20Ahrs, 800W at 57lbs.

1/4 the power, 1/3 the range, but 1/8 the price! Not bad.

Looking at the size of that motor, I strongly suspect it can be
overvolted to at least 400-600 watts. I'd have to look at gearing
ratios to see if that makes sense from a power standpoint. The full
suspension is a big plus.

[Bike_on]

From the Opti view:

4x the power 3x the range = 12x better at 8x the cost. :)

[bMF]

yeah, that's really weak logic there.

perhaps it's hoped to be forgotten in the past like the black sheep of
the family, but might I remind people that Optibike started out at
400W?
even with 600W on tap, Craig's butt got spanked a nice shade of Opti
red by our own Issac Hayes @ TDS in the short course exposing the
Opti's weak acceleration.
so much so that Craig stormed back to HQ demanding 'dammit Jim, I need
more POWER!'
yep, without Larry here there never would have been an 0Bjuan.

b-sides, I *thought* the whole point of thru the gears was to be able
to achieve the same performance with a lo-power motor.
now we see there's no free lunch & Opti motor power has crept even
beyond the TF just to claw back to the same performance.
so much for the gearing dividend.

now with that historical perspective in mind, spend 2k$ on some Li
pack, bore & stroke the motor the same way Opti engineers have, or
replace it entirely & there u go.
same or better performance, half or less the price.
numerous examples @ES if u don't believe.

[remf]

I don't disagree & I do believe, but the gearing dividend is evident
in extreme hill climbing. No disrespect to Larry, he's a champion but
I'm not sure how he'd go on Pikes Peak on his TFX? Comparing to a TFX
or an E+ for that matter, the Opti gets more miles per w/hr, weighs
less & has dual suspension. Generally you get what you pay for, any
excess keeps the Opti wheels turning in Boulder.

There are so many seriously cool bikes at ES but none have integrated
batteries that look as good as the Opti IMO.

[bMF]

let's see how a Opti400 would go on Pikes Peak, hmmm?
b4 I got shut out of the OOG, (otherwise I'd quote it here) IIRC there
were a couple of people who complained that even the 600W model didn't
quite cut it up hills & the posters were only happy once they
upgraded.
I'm sure Craig wouldn't storm into HQ, slam his helmet down & insist
'dammit Jim, I need more *efficiency*!!!' lol!
that don't impress the gurls.

we have *some* idea how a TFX might fare.
power consumption is about double, so what?
I'm sure here are bicycles that have made it up PP without *any* motor
at all which is even more eff than the Optibike.
Nimbuzz used his TFX as a hillclimber for several years & was only let
down by the battery.
granted it's no Pike's Peak but 300 watt-hours is a tiny, tiny pack.
I'm amazed that he could do it at all.
Then there's msvphoto1 who did it without an 'X'!

nope, it all comes down to the battery & Optibike is only benefiting
from improvements in batt tech.
My TF is 500W max & used most of the time in non-turbo which is half
that.
that's basically what the rmartin bikes have on tap.
fact it's driven thru the gears & very reasonably priced it I think it
will satisfy most first time buyers performance-wise & a is good
choice to get their sea-legs so to speak.
Then if they feel the need for speed can supe it up without a lot of
cash outlay & still come out ahead.

[OptOut]

LOL

Best,
Joe (mobile)

[OptOut]

That's right B,
You tell those Optibaked guys!
And big thanks from all to our feerless leader Larry!

Best,
Joe (mobile)

[Bike_on]

You guys are funny. My fuzzy math 3x4=12 > 8k is all in fun. I have
never claimed that the 800li has an 8-9k value. I maintain a market
price point of 5-6k would be appropriate.

As for your Optislams, just know that the Opti will spank your
Tidalbutts in efficiency == range, all day, up and down hill and
backside. Please purchase some Tide(lforce) for your Tideyshirts, for
you will need to wash them once you sputter out of energy and the
Optibike cruises accross your backside. Any yes, our full suspension
can handle that quite well.

Cheers,
Dan

On Feb 18, 8:59 am, OptOut <optib...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That's right B,
> You tell those Optibaked guys!
> And big thanks from all to our feerless leader Larry!
>
> Best,
> Joe (mobile)
>

> On Feb 18, 2009, at 1:36 AM, bMF <gspi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > yeah, that's really weak logic there.
>
> > perhaps it's hoped to be forgotten in the past like the black sheep of
> > the family, but might I remind people that Optibike started out at
> > 400W?
> > even with 600W on tap, Craig's butt got spanked a nice shade of Opti
> > red by our own Issac Hayes @ TDS in the short course exposing the
> > Opti's weak acceleration.
> > so much so that Craig stormed back to HQ demanding 'dammit Jim, I need
> > more POWER!'
> > yep, without Larry here there never would have been an 0Bjuan.
>
> > b-sides, I *thought* the whole point of thru the gears was to be able
> > to achieve the same performance with a lo-power motor.
> > now we see there's no free lunch & Opti motor power has crept even
> > beyond the TF just to claw back to the same performance.
> > so much for the gearing dividend.
>
> > now with that historical perspective in mind, spend 2k$ on some Li
> > pack, bore & stroke the motor the same way Opti engineers have, or
> > replace it entirely & there u go.
> > same or better performance, half or less the price.
> > numerous examples @ES if u don't believe.
>
> > On Feb 17, 6:49 pm, Bike_on <therowe...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> From the Opti view:
>

> >> 4x the power 3x the range = 12x better at 8x the cost.  :)- Hide quoted text -

[Bike_on]

A little less smack in this post, but I have to address bMF claims:

"nope, it all comes down to the battery & Optibike is only benefiting
from improvements in batt tech. "

Yes, power to the wheels, ie torque, is torque whether from a hub
or chain drive system. The Opti design advantage is more pronouced on
hills over a hub design: Center of gravity, less heat in motor due to
eff., and of course less energy used in battery. If you mean
comparing 1 hill moderate hill climb with a fuilly charged battery,
then yes, no real performance advantage. But what if the hill gets
real steep? What if the hill is realy long? There is more at play
here than the battery technology.

Opti has upped the power to hit the power v. weight cross over. How
much power can I get before my bike no longer feels like a bicycle? I
say 70lbs. A TF with a real aux battery is already over the limit.
The E+ is still on the map. People want more power, notonly to help
them up the hills, but to do it in a respectable time. To me, the
yardstick is an avid cycling on a superlight road bike going up a
hill. One needs enough power to pass that guy, and preferrable give
him some e-xhaust to breath and ponder what just passed him. TF and E
+ do well with that.

Acceleration. The TF had the nod with the direct drive. No shifting
of chain throw issues. We really don't know, watt for watt, how the
TF and Opti motors comparer unless we see data. They are indeed
different designs, with different controller algorithms.

Please reply.

DR

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[OptOut]

We need RACEs!

Best,
Joe (mobile)

[Bike_on]

Oh yes, and this quoye:

>b-sides, I *thought* the whole point of thru the gears was to be able
>to achieve the same performance with a lo-power motor.

You actually miss the point of going thru the gears, for your mind is
locked on a fixed gear hub. The MBB and drive is all about operating
a fixed gear motor atthe sweet spot and changing gears per the load.
A lo-power motor just means your don't go as fast. However, on
steeper hills, the effective output of the lo-power MBB and drive
would match the hub as the hub speeds decline.

>now we see there's no free lunch & Opti motor power has crept even
>beyond the TF just to claw back to the same performance.
>so much for the gearing dividend.

Power was not increased to match TF, but to outperform. Performance is
more than peak speed and acceleration. Opti CAN go up a steeper
grade. It uses 1/2 th eenergy on hills. It handles off-road better.

>now with that historical perspective in mind, spend 2k$ on some Li
>pack, bore & stroke the motor the same way Opti engineers have, or
>replace it entirely & there u go.
>same or better performance, half or less the price.
>numerous examples @ES if u don't believe.

Same or better performance??? Maybe if you go 48V.

DR

On Feb 18, 11:12 am, OptOut <optib...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We need RACEs!
>
> Best,
> Joe (mobile)
>

[bill_von]

On Feb 17, 6:49 pm, Bike_on <therowe...@verizon.net> wrote:

> From the Opti view:
>
> 4x the power 3x the range = 12x better at 8x the cost.  :)

Cool! By that standard, my Tidalforce has 1.2 times the power, more
battery and comes in at about half the cost!

[deerfencer1]

"Power was not increased to match TF, but to outperform. Performance
is
> more than peak speed and acceleration. Opti CAN go up a steeper
> grade. It uses 1/2 th eenergy on hills. It handles off-road better."

All valid points for sure, but I'd note that Pierrino has vented on
the Opti board that his Opti (not sure which model he has--either the
600 or 800 I think) balks on the steepest of the hills he encounters
in L.A. and that he now simply avoids those hills, period. A LOT has
to do with the human engine aboard, and obviously Craig and Reno John
are examples of extremely fit and efficient motors
that can help the e-motor tackle slopes like Pike's Peak. Would 70-
year-old Pierrino or our beloved big guy Saxophone Keith make it up
those same hills on his Opti? I tend to doubt it.

My personal feeling is that extreme uphill grades are simply not an e-
bike's forte regardless of make as there's just too much amperage
demand. Picture the energy involved with trying to push a 300 lb
wheelbarrow up a steep hill and you have an idea of what we're asking
these poor bikes to do.

Separately, it IS a bit ironic as Bubba notes that Opti has chosen to
go the very American, more power/speed route when the whole thrust of
the original 400 was towards lightness and efficiency (another reason
to hate the heavy plastic TAG wheels--they go against both these
principles; in fact I'd dare to say I can't think of a more absurd
wheel to put on the carbon-fiber-laden $14K Opti).

That said, I personally find the pace and range capability of the
stock 800Li very attractive, and would probably own one if I could
justify the cost (and put up with the noise factor--a long test ride
or two would be mandatory)--AND if my SX didn't fulfill 90% of my
riding wants/needs, namely one hour joy rides. The biggest drag with
our TFX bikes continues to be finding a long-lived lithium battery
capable of cranking out the 30-34A demand these motors require at full
throttle, exactly the reason that Al ended up going Opti for his
commute.

Overall, my personal opinion is pretty simple--one hour fun ride/
commute? Go TF/E+ with aux pack. Anything beyond that, go Opti or a
600W BMC-based kit bike such as Doug offers. Anyone with truly
serious grades they need to do on a regular basis should look at 48V
systems IMO; I was very impressed with how powerful my POS Lashout
became when I upgraded the controller and started to feed the motor
48V. Too much power, perhaps, for my 120 lb wife, who rode it up some
extreme hills at half throttle, but just right for her nearly twice-as-
heavy hubby.

LH

P.S. Ultimate dream bike: A turnkey 48V big guy model E+ specifically
geared towards Clydesdales and/or big hill climbing.

[Bike_on]

Hi Larry,

Would you buy an Opti 800Li at $5k?

On the hills, Pierrino changed his front ring from 48T to 44T and now
crushes ALL hills. There is a bit of a design progresson with Opti
for chainring. They started with a 44T on the 400, went to a 46T on
the 600. I, and maybe others were asking for a 48T on the 600, then
they came out with the 800. That was all about the speed at the top
gear. However, the gear range is limited and the bottom end suffers
with the 48T. The two Opti-off road guys use a 44T and 42T chainring
for the torque, and it works great. Seriously, the available torque
with 800W running peak power, 44T/34T gear ratio, and cruising up
steep hills without help is real. Unless one has dual windings in
their hubs, they have to maintain some speed or the hub will die off,
get hot, and suck the juice.

LH, I too think a 48V system is more ideal for hubs and gear drivers.

DR

[deerfencer1]

Dan,

Thanks for clarifying P's (successful) experience with gearing down on
steep hills--very interesting. Unfortunately it doesn't solve the
problem speed hounds like myself would have in confronting steep
grades with a 48T ring (which I'm sure I'd order over the 44T).
Someday Opti will figure a way around this conundrum. I personally
don't enjoy super-steep climbs anyway, so I'm sure I'd be willing to
compromise with the larger ring by just avoiding the worst grades.

Would I buy an Opti 800Li @ $5K? In a healthier economy, if my
business was booming, almost surely.
I'll be the first to admit I'd love to ride a sleeker, more bike-like
e-bike that I could take out on weekends for 40-50 miles. But the NY
metro area economy is in shambles, and my customer base (the Wall
Street crowd) is at ground zero, so right now we're just trying to
survive. Luckily we just landed a 200-acre commercial apple orchard
fence right here in Dutchess County that will take us into spring, but
it's a very unusual project for us as we are an almost 100%
residential fencing business. We've done some large estates for sure,
but this is the first big farm fence we've ever done in almost 20
years of deer fencing.

LH

> ...
>
> read more »

[Bike_on]

Larry-

I favor the 48T as well and an young enough to power up th ehills if
they seem steep. I have felt my bike pull on a couple steep hills
around MD rivers, but not bog down.

This spring, it is on my to do list to visit E+ down in Va, 30 minutes
from me, and trade rides. Ran out of weekends last year. Then Uncle
Al and I can both give real, antidotal comparisons.

Dan

> > > > > >>>> yeah, that's really weak logic there.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -...
>
> read more »

[bMF]

DR, r u axeing *me* to reply?
well, ok, but don't really have much more to add.
actually Larry summed up my rambling by applying the precision assault
of one word, ironic.
thems book larnins 4 ya!

I will say one thing tho.
nowhere have I read in any postings of Opti owners a simple thank-you
for Larry's part in changing the course of Optibike history with his
win over Craig Weak-knees @TDS.
Craig can deny the effect that the loss had on him all he wants &
claim it was all his grandpa's fault.

But all of us here at the time remember how it all went down.
It was a surreal moment that u just don't forget, kinda like man
landing on the moon or 9/11.
when everyone's favourite whipping boy, the Tidalforce, costing half a
much, beat the much heralded Opti600.

yep, we needs races to improve the breed.
Optibike would still be at 600 Watts if it weren't for that loss.
so if no one else will say it then I will.
thank YOU, Larry (Shafty) Hayes for ur legendary win, ur place in the
history books & ur pivotal role in shaping ebike evolution.

[OptOut]

B,
I can't stop laughing - weak-knees.
I'll probably never forgive him for avoiding me like the plague when
he's in my area. Fearing my review, no doubt.

Best,
Joe (mobile)

[Bike_on]

Never heard of any race until now. How far was it? Flat? Hills?
When? Where? Give credit where it is due.

I assume that was a 600T with NiMH? Did Larry have Li or lead for a
boost?

DR

On Feb 19, 12:04 pm, OptOut <optib...@gmail.com> wrote:
> B,
> I can't stop laughing - weak-knees.
> I'll probably never forgive him for avoiding me like the plague when  
> he's in my area. Fearing my review, no doubt.
>
> Best,
> Joe (mobile)
>

[optibike]

Well, I guess I better step up then. Come to colorado and beat me on
an 800li (or even a 600li for that matter) and I will pay for your
trip, no problem.

I have the perfect 3000 foot climb over 20 miles to really settle the
score.

:) colorado is beautiful in the spring.

Craig

[remf]

My money's on Craig...600 or 800.

[optibike]

I don't know rem, it got kinda quiet in here.....

[OptOut]

Dear Craig,
All I can say is you blew bye me and Larry when you were last in NY.
BUT we were hoping you'd stop bye instead. At least speaking for
myself. Now I'm out of a job so can't spend the dough on a trip to
CO. (Or an Opti.)

Best,
Joe (mobile)

[remf]

Like vacuum in space. Pity, I hear there are great 5 star resorts &
amazing gourmet restaurants in Boulder :)

[bMF]

yeah, quiet like the vacuum of space at the entrance to OOG.
sorry to have missed u craig, i can only dedicate a small time-slice
to spend here.
and so soory to hear about ur problematic patella.

we can get hot-n-heavy into some sort of glove-slap if u like.
but i drew u out to ask about ur google group.

1. r u aware that the Optibike-Owners-Group is no longer viewable to
the general public?
2. if u are aware, do u intend to re-open it to public view & when?
3. if u don't intend to return to free & open access, then why not?


btw, richard's Optibike group is also members only now which would
indicate it's a system glitch. but the E+ group hasn't been affected.
so i look forward to what light craig can shine on this.

[remf]

"we can get hot-n-heavy into some sort of glove-slap if u like."

Sounds like a showdown to me. *cue Ennio Morricone's The Good, the Bad
and the Ugly*

[OptOut]

B,
Richard's Optibike group?
I should send you this off list but if you mean the one simply called
Optibike it's not a glitch. Spammers were messing with it so at my
suggestion Rich tightened it up. But no one was actually using it
besides spammers.

Best,
Joe (mobile)

[Richard Papa]

Hi all, nice find!

I think the bikes are a good sign. Yes under powered for most of us but
good to have more choice. Hopefully some reviews will come along to shed
some light on performance. They look more targeted for the European market.

As some are trying to measure the efficiency of the Opti motor v the TF
motor. I would speculate there is not a lot of difference really. I am
talking about the Opti 800 motor v TFX motor. As I have ridden the TF for
three years on the road and now an Opti for nearly a year. I can speculate
a bit.

IMO, I think both motors are near the same efficiency wise. I can get 12
miles on my TFX in turbo mode with the stock 8.8ah pack. With the Opti 20ah
pack I get around 25 miles doing the same average speeds. I think the power
is pretty even only the Opti freewheel allows the Opti to go a few MPH
faster (maybe 2 or 3mph) and DOES have more torque. But where the Opti
really differs is the how the motor is fed into the system with the high end
components, and center force of the pack and motor. It all adds up to a
more efficient BIKE. The battery and the motor are not the whole story.
That's the little secret of Optibikes. It's the whole package that works so
well.

The added battery capacity has also been a TF owners dream for many years
now. The best thing for me is going out and NEVER worrying about my pack
running out. But it's not fair to compare components alone. For me at least
it's about he whole package. And Opti is the best out there by far. Look
forward to some reviews and MODs on the Rmartin bikes. Good luck to them!

Hugs to all,

Rich

[Richard Papa]

There are a few things here not quite right.

The TF is a MULTI speed hub motor. It will out perform any single speed hub
motor. I should know, I tried a few ;). It has adaptive properties a bit
like gears. I call it my automatic hub ;9) So you can't compare a TF motor
with a single speed. The TF is much more superior.

Measuring my top speeds on a 10% grade, my Opti 800 and my TFX has the same
top speed (15mph no pedal or 25mph going for it) Not sure about power? No
way for me to measure the Opti in/output. But the top speeds are around the
same. So if you consider 800w v 1000w, the Opti package seems to make up
another 200w worth of performance. Pretty impressive now I think about it.
And I was using Lithium on my TFX. So this is a more fair observation. The
TF hub is NiMH as no competition v Lithium.

Now could a high end TFX compete against an Opti on open roads? I think the
TF would give Opti a good run for the money. Off road the Opti would leave
the TFX. How about you guys hooking up for a burn? That would be something.
Wish I was in the US sometimes :9(

Take care all,

Rich

Btw, so sorry to pee on this thread. We should really start a new BITCH
thread on efficiency between motors.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tidal...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Tidal...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Bike_on
Sent: 18 February 2009 16:52
To: TidalForce Forum
Subject: [TF] Re: Rmartin bikes

[Richard Papa]

LOL! But what about us Europeans??? We pay near DOUBLE for our TFs!

Double standards again ;9)

Take care,

Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: Tidal...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Tidal...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of bill_von
Sent: 18 February 2009 17:09
To: TidalForce Forum
Subject: [TF] Re: Rmartin bikes

[Richard Papa]

I thank you Larry too for me 800Li!

Hugs,

Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: Tidal...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Tidal...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of bMF
Sent: 19 February 2009 16:18
To: TidalForce Forum
Subject: [TF] Re: Rmartin bikes

[Richard Papa]

Hi Bubba,

I don't want the Opti group. I just grabbed it so no one else could. Then
someone spammed the site so I booted them and closed it. It has no members.
I now use it for webspace ;9)

Hugs,

Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: Tidal...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Tidal...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of bMF
Sent: 20 February 2009 10:01
To: TidalForce Forum
Subject: [TF] Re: Rmartin bikes

[OptOut]

Bubba:
"It was not a glitch."

Best,
Joe (mobile)

Ps hope I'm a member.

Pss note I reserved the Optibike gmail address long before Rich
reserved the group name. But we think alike ;-)

On Feb 20, 2009, at 2:15 PM, "Richard Papa" <papa...@btconnect.com>
wrote:

[Richard Papa]

It's just me and you dear,

Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: Tidal...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Tidal...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of OptOut
Sent: 20 February 2009 19:29
To: Forum TidalForce
Subject: [TF] Re: Rmartin bikes

[OptOut]

It's lonely at the top.

Where's Flossy when you need her?

Best,
Joe (mobile)

On Feb 20, 2009, at 2:51 PM, "Richard Papa" <papa...@btconnect.com>
wrote:

>

[Bike_On]

Rich,

How much does the TFX @1000W and Li weigh vs the Opti 800Li. The
extra weight could account for part of the 200W difference.

Dan

[Richard Papa]

Hi Dan,

My Opti 800 is 55lbs. My TFX with a 15ah Lithium pack is around 80lbs
(Roughly, 70 for the bike and 12 for the pack). Both have around the same
range with the same average speed. So yes my friend. Weight plays it's
part.

Cheers,

[Bike_On]

Rich,

Why does the TFX get 12 miles on 8.8Ahrs at 1000W, while the new
improved E+ has posted 7-8 miles (on a track) doing 30mph with a 1000W
motor and 9 ahrs?

Dan

[Richard Papa]

Because I always pedal!

[OptOut]

My TFM750X with the 2 lipo packs and the hub battery weighs in at
about 100 lbs. That includes a heavy rack and double (forked) kick
stand. I think I went about 20 fast hilly miles last time I drained
the packs to LV cutout.

Best,
Joe (mobile)

On Feb 20, 2009, at 3:21 PM, "Richard Papa" <papa...@btconnect.com>
wrote:

>

[Russell_LA]

Test reply from Russell/LA

I have recently taken delivery of a custom 800Li Optibike.
Puts a big smile on my face every time I ride it.

Regards;

> > > Best,
> > > Joe (mobile)
>

> > > On Feb 18, 2009, at 1:36 AM, bMF <gspi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > yeah, that's really weak logic there.
>
> > > > perhaps it's hoped to be forgotten in the past like the black sheep of
> > > > the family, but might I remind people that Optibike started out at
> > > > 400W?
> > > > even with 600W on tap, Craig's butt got spanked a nice shade of Opti
> > > > red by our own Issac Hayes @ TDS in the short course exposing the
> > > > Opti's weak acceleration.
> > > > so much so that Craig stormed back to HQ demanding 'dammit Jim, I need
> > > > more POWER!'
> > > > yep, without Larry here there never would have been an 0Bjuan.
>
> > > > b-sides, I *thought* the whole point of thru the gears was to be able
> > > > to achieve the same performance with a lo-power motor.
> > > > now we see there's no free lunch & Opti motor power has crept even
> > > > beyond the TF just to claw back to the same performance.
> > > > so much for the gearing dividend.
>
> > > > now with that historical perspective in mind, spend 2k$ on some Li
> > > > pack, bore & stroke the motor the same way Opti engineers have, or
> > > > replace it entirely & there u go.
> > > > same or better performance, half or less the price.
> > > > numerous examples @ES if u don't believe.
>

> > > > On Feb 17, 6:49 pm, Bike_on <therowe...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > >> From the Opti view:
>

[deerfencer]

Very interesting thread--I wish I could comment more intelligently but
have had a little too much John Daniels to say anything but keep
posting as I'm loving it!

LH

[bMF]

"Btw, so sorry to pee on this thread."

it's okay.
now that britain is part of the e.u., uri-peein' all the time.

thanx rich, for basically confirming in reality what my math has been
telling me theoretically.
it takes the same amount of energy to do the same amount of work, so
they're gonna drain the same.
of course u have to compare one variable at a time & if ur comparing
motors u need to take the battery out of the equation by giving both
the same battery, which was main point.

i agree that any edge is a combo of the small weight & power
difference but that really only comes into play up hills & while
accelerating when drawing peak loads, a small percentage of time in
the overall typical driving profile for most.
as rich points out, pedaling plays a biggest part i think, especially
if it's continuous & not just at peak times.

as to why the difference between the TFX & E+?
7-phase compared to 3-phase for one.
but i think rich was talking overall average speed on a typical ride
whereas the E+ measurement is at constant peak speed.
also given that the E+ is 3-5 mph faster top speed & that power
required increases with the cube of velocity, the seemingly small
speed difference would eat up a few amp-hours.
again multiple variables muddying the waters.