Fresh Water Angel Fish
muddyfox
Just had let you all know - last weekend I finally got the Angel fish
I've been looking for for my main tank. They are absolutley
beautiful! Previously my favourite fish have been Rummynose Tetras
and Bettas, but these Angels are incredible. Not only do they look
stunning but they move in such a gentle, graceful way. I am utterly
besotted. What I really didn't expect, especially given that they are
cichlids, is how friendly they are to me. Whenever I sit in the
armchair next to the tank they come out to say hello - swimming right
up to me - as if they are begging for an extra feed. I've only had
them a few days and one of them will take food straight from my
fingers. Previously I've only ever seen this kind of intelligent
interspecies interaction from Bettas, although I've heard that Oscars
can be human friendly like this too. They are the most wonderful
fish!!!
All the very best,
Muddy
NetMax
have better recognition abilities. Angelfish in particular are
'pisciverous' carnivores (they specialize in eating other fish) but
they cannot chase down their food. This combination requires them to
hunt by stealth, which requires even higher recognition skills (to
identify prey, plot approach vector and watch for awareness of their
presence). Oscars use the same strategy, but they go after larger
prey and their kill radius is much larger than an Angelfish (the
volume of water they 'inhale').
I'd love to see them hunt in the wild. I imagine Oscars might let
themselves drift like the piece of driftwood they resemble, and
Angelfish would slowly glide in on a vector where their narrow profile
would not register on their prey's lateral line (from directly
behind?)
~~
Mister Gardener
> themselves drift like the piece of driftwood they resemble, and
> Angelfish would slowly glide in on a vector where their narrow profile
> would not register on their prey's lateral line (from directly
> behind?)
Gliding in slowly from a stand of tall grasses in which they are camouflaged
visually as well as vibrationally, their movement being confused with the
gently moving grasses.
My pea sized babies are so quick in their attacks on live food in the water,
it's hard to believe they are going to grow and be among the slowest movers
in the basin.
MG
dave349
always wanted some)) and i've put them in my 29g, i hope everything
works out though and they don't become too agressive to my other fish.
So far they've been really docile, and i love them, if i ever get a
chance to buy another average sized tank (30-40g) it will be an all
angel tank.
On Mar 15, 12:04 pm, "muddyfox" <muddy...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
dave349
black with a few small silver/yellow areas. will they always be this
colour? or do the colours sorta change as the fish gets older and more
mature, kinda of like other cichlids?
Mister Gardener
> always wanted some)) and i've put them in my 29g, i hope everything
> works out though and they don't become too agressive to my other fish.
Dave - Congrats on the new angels. In my experience, angels restrict their
aggressive behaviors to their own kind. My worst experience has been with a
gorgeous koi angel that terrorized her original angel tank mates; she killed
two angels before I got her out of there. I call her Little Miss Sunshine.
She is presently the only angel in a community tank, mostly platies, and
she's shown absolutely no aggression to any of her tankmates. She mixes and
mingles with the livebearers as if they are all old friends.
MG
Mister Gardener
> black with a few small silver/yellow areas. will they always be this
> colour? or do the colours sorta change as the fish gets older and more
> mature, kinda of like other cichlids?
Good question. Here's the long answer, see below for the short answer. I
raise Double Dark Blacks, and when they were youngsters, nickel to quarter
sized, they had all sorts of splotches of color on them, mostly yellow
smudges and a little bit of silver on the sides of a couple of them. They
blackened as they matured - they are now getting close to a year old and two
or three have become 100% black, and their black has an almost velvety
appearance. Blue may also be present in some young angels, and it may
develop with maturity, usually around the gill edges and the webbing of the
large fins. I don't find the blue undesirable, it's only noticeable in
certain lighting or certain "moods", and I think it is a beautiful cast that
sets off the black. Strains of black angels are not as easy for breeders to
produce as many of the other varieties. Blacks are frequently weaker, more
susceptible to disease, and black adults are more likely to display violent,
aggressive behavior toward other angels. Because of these traits, breeders
face the challenge of producing blacks that are robust and strong, and have
less aggressive tendencies. So in order to maintain the desired characters,
the breeding stock needs to be outcrossed periodically with another variety
that is known to have a strong constitution and a peaceful personality.
Zebras are one of the more common contributors to the black strain, and
along with the desired attributes, they may also express a little color in
some of the blacks. In certain lighting, and when frightened, the stripes of
the zebra can be seen, sort of a black on very dark gray. I see this mainly
in young fish. I've learned that I can't really determine how black my
blacks will be until they have matured.
The short answer to your question is "yes."
MG (Emm Gee)
dave349
night, i looked up some info on FW angels, and after reading that and
now what you have said, I'm convinced these are probably DDBs that
have been crossed somwhere along the line with another species. these
guys (or girls....btw can anyone tell me if theres ways to tell the
difference?) are awesome fish and have not caused any problems yet
and i hope it will stay liek this, they have been hanging out with my
gouramis (which i lost a neon blue yesterday btw, it had been looking
sickly for a few weeks so i moved it to quarentine, and it died
yesterday after a long fight, don't know what was wrong with it, other
than i saw it had a split tail, no bite marks or anything, just the
tail was divided in half). the only problem i could see arising is my
serpae tetras which are supposed to be fin nippers, but have had no
problems with them nipping my gouramis long whisker things or w.e they
are. anyways, ill try and get some pictures of the angels sometime
today and put them up here, they are about the length of the first
joint on you thumb to the second, so around 1.5-2"
On Mar 16, 9:10 am, "Mister Gardener" <mrgarde...@email.toast.net>
wrote:
NetMax
find that they don't change their colour significantly once they have
reached juvenile stage. I don't find cichlids change their colors
very much. What changes I see are related to spawing activities (so
it's mostly the area and the intensity of the colors), old age colors
(typical for many fish) and disease colors (also typical). Otherwise,
except for colors associated with spawning or sexual maturation,
cichlids basically stay the same color. Goldfish on the other hand...
~~
> > > Muddy- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mister Gardener
changes for them. Nitrates at or below 20, if possible. I've read of hard
core breeders who change 50% daily. After I sell my first million, I'll
invest in an auto water change system. Maybe before, if I can figure out a
workable and affordable way to do it.
MG
Mister Gardener
> find that they don't change their colour significantly once they have
> reached juvenile stage.
The changes I've seen have been barely enough to call them changes - they're
kind of subtle. The most dramatic changes I've seen in 2 of mine are the
small patches of silver on their sides when they were young that have
changed to black.
I read a theory on why solid black angels are prone to being weak fish - the
energy required to produce and maintain the exceedingly high number of
melanophores takes away from the energy resources required to maintain a
strong immune system. I don't know enough to support or refute the theory,
but it suggests to me that the growth of black pigment cells is a lifelong
process and subject to vary, depending on the fish's internal and external
environment and resources.
MG
Chip Wood
i bought 2 angels today (couldn't resist, i've
>> always wanted some))
>
>
surviving. I raised them in Florida- Middle and the SE of the state-
with no problems. I have tried off and on over 13 years to get them to
live more than a month or two in Phoenix, AZ. All my other community
fish have done just fine with one or two episodes that I want to forget.
I do everything my LFSs suggest and get the water tested and I change it
often, but NO luck with angels. They seem to have no noticeable
ailment, just find them floating. This has occurred for about 15 angels
over the years. Bought from different stores, different times, and
different sizes. The last 2 I bought from a HIGH class LFS, one died in
a few days and they wouldn't give me a sub until my water checked out.
The sub lasted another week and the remaining original lasted two more
weeks. None of the other 15 or so of that tank's fish had a problem
during this period.
Chip
Melissa Phillips
rummynose tetras a few years ago, that he was raised with:( The only
smaller fish he never killed were 2 particular beckford's pencil fish.
When ever I tried to add more he ate the new ones and left the original
2. Now he is in a bigger tank with rasboras, 2 gouramis another angel
hatchet fish and botias, he chases them all but they can get away.
Mister Gardener
So what's different between Phoenix and your previous homes? Different
water, for sure. And you know how we usually do things here on TFA, we put
you through the paces, beginning with asking about your water. Starting with
pH, the number is not so important as the stability. What's the pH from your
tap, in your tank the next day, and do you add anything to your tank water
to change the pH? Does your tank pH change over a period of days or weeks?
Do you know the KH and GH of your water? We also like to read that your
ammonia and nitrItes are absolutely zero. Angels can be sensitive to high
nitrAtes, they tolerate 0-20 pretty well, but 40 and up can cause problems.
Your water temperature is 78 - 82? Do you use any additives, conditioners,
fertilizers, or Love Potion #9 in the water? Who are the tankmates?
13 years ago you were having no problems - that would be in the late
nineties, after the introduction of the dread angelfish virus or angelfish
AIDS as it was called, and you didn't have trouble from that disease back
then. When you talk to the lfs that sold you the angels that died, and he or
she tests your water and your water checks out OK, does the lfs offer any
insights into what s/he thinks might have killed them? How has the lfs's
track record been at keeping angels alive in the store tanks? Any problems?
Do they quarantine new arrivals? And a critical question is, where does the
lfs get the angels it sells to you. Are they farmed or are they produced by
local breeders? I lost a slew of angels last winter, I stupidly purchased
them from a big store that I did not know well, instead of my very trusted
lfs - who told me he wasn't selling angels until he could tear down and
superclean a couple of tanks, because he couldn't keep them alive long
enough to sell them. I purchased a group of angels from a breeder 2000 miles
away, and those angels have become my breeding stock today. Never a problem,
tough as nails.
So . . . when you think about the questions above, you will probably figure
out the hoped for answers, but there are very few hard and fast rules - when
angels have a healthy start in life, they are quite good at adapting to a
wide range of waters. You've probably done a lot of reading and you've
answered these questions before, but humor us, so we can start from the
beginning. Hopefully there will be some others who will add some questions
that I forgot.
MG Mighty Glad you asked.
Mister Gardener
in their mouth, tetras being a delicacy for them. The only time my angels
chase away the pencilfish, hatchets and bloodfin tetras in their tank is
when they are spawning. Even then, they don't really attack, they just turn
in the little fish's direction and the little fish goes running. Or rapidly
swimming.
Just curious, how is his relationship with the other angel in the tank?
MG
Mister Gardener
> difference?)
I've read of a couple of ways to tell the difference, but they are very
subjective and seem to work only for the individuals who espouse them. When
the female begins to "yolk up" a bulge in her belly becomes apparent, but at
this point she is most likely within a couple of days of spawning, and a
couple of days before spawning, the male and the female will begin to engage
in telltale behaviors, like cleaning the spawning surface and driving other
tankmates away from their chosen area. Both partners share all chores
equally, they trade off between cleaning and chasing and, later, caring for
the eggs. So you can't tell the sex from their behaviors. As they get closer
to "the moment", their spawning tubes will begin to show, the female's
ovipositor is usually thicker than the male's sperm-o-positor, but I've had
a couple where even that wasn't for certain, I had to wait until I could see
which tube the eggs rolled out of. The short answer to this question is, "No
- though 4 or 5 people in the world will hotly disagree."
MG
Mister Gardener
>
> 13 years ago you were having no problems - that would be in the late
> nineties,
Oops, subtract a few more years from that.
Chip Wood
> Just curious, how is his relationship with the other angel in the tank?
>
>
When they were together (all 3 were gone in a month) no problems that I
noticed. In fact, I rarely had a problem with angels and their tank
mates, even in Fla.
As far as the other technical details, I have never been particularly
fussy about all the exact numbers. This is the same treatment my fish
have gotten for 30 years. I have a fairly casual approach which seems
to work for all my fish, EXCEPT for the PHX angels. I change the water
(~50%)and vacuum the gravel pretty often and get the water tested at the
LFS about every two weeks. I keep the temp about 78F, have 1-2% salt,
use both under gravel and power filtering, and haven't had any disease
problems for years.
My two main LFSs have no more suggestions on what may be wrong. I tried
just about everything. The angels seem to be quite active and
healthy in the stores. I hate to try again because the loss of those
beautiful fish hurts.
Chip
Mister Gardener
> fussy about all the exact numbers. This is the same treatment my fish
> have gotten for 30 years.
But it's not the same treatment your fish have gotten for 30 years, you're
using completely different water than you were in Florida. Without knowing
your water chemistry and quality, there's not much I can suggest regarding
your angel deaths.
> I change the water
> (~50%)and vacuum the gravel pretty often and get the water tested at the
> LFS about every two weeks.
Do you know what your LFS tests for and the results? Most LSFs that I know
only test for pH and ammonia, which only assures the customer that their
tank is not full of poison and their pH lies somewhere within a rather broad
range deemed as "normal".
> I keep the temp about 78F, have 1-2% salt,
Why salt? Salt is only indicated for angels in treatment of specific medical
problems, such as nitrite toxicity or parasites.
> My two main LFSs have no more suggestions on what may be wrong. I tried
> just about everything.
It troubles me that your LFSs are aware of your problem with angels yet are
happy to keep selling them to you. When you say you've tried everything,
have you tried examining each and every one of your water tests - I don't
think you'll be able to solve your problem until you explore this next level
of learning about your water. What worked 15 or 20 years ago for many
species of tropical fish is no longer good enough for them today - pet store
fish in the 21st century are much weaker than in the past, and the water
we've always taken for granted has much more junk in it, added by both the
treatment plants as well as mother nature.
> I hate to try again because the loss of those
> beautiful fish hurts.
I understand and would like to help if I can.
MG
NetMax
body from their head, and another about how the head's profile is more
square. I'm not sure how they know the difference. Perhaps it's
hormones, so maybe we need a hormone sniffer. Can dogs smell
underwater? ;~)
~~
On Mar 16, 6:11 pm, "Mister Gardener" <mrgarde...@email.toast.net>
wrote:
NetMax
about the levels of dissolved gases which can be found in deep water,
when doing large water changes. Perhaps the only thing you need to do
is let your change-water age before use. I generally keep about 15g
of well-water aging for a week for my changes.
The other things to know are the usual, pH, and gH. Angelfish are
notoriously poor stock as well. Contact your local aquarium society
for an Angelfish breeder in your area (with similar water conditions).
~~
On Mar 16, 7:01 pm, "Mister Gardener" <mrgarde...@email.toast.net>
wrote:
Tynk
Hey Muddy!
Congrats on the Angels! = )
My favorite fish, next to Bettas.
I've specialized in both for many years.
What you have noticed is that Angels, like Bettas, are aware of their
surroundings *outside* their tank.
This is one of the things I love about both species.
I have this long hallway down from my main tank where I keep my
Angels.
If I just pop my head out of my bedroom waaaaaay down the hall,
they're over to that side of the tank in a flash.
It's the cutest thing. Both my children over the years "play" with the
Angels. They'll go to one side of the tank and then the Angels will
swim as fast as they can to that side....then the kids will switch and
the Angels will dash to that side. I think the fish have about as much
fun as the kids do.
When they see you sit down, it's not that they're begging for food
(I'm sure when it's feeding time, they are), but they are happy to see
you. They can all excited and go side to side with their bodies,
pushing each other out of the way to have the best look at you, or
show you how gorgeous they are.
I had one male yrs ago named Studly. He was gorgeous, and boy did he
know it! If a fish could act "stuck up" he sure did. He sure was a
good looking fish though.
It's very easy to get them to eat from your fingers too.
Make sure they get some frozen Bloodworms, Brine shrimp and even some
blanched Romaine lettuce.
Live bearer fry (if you have and can handle it...it's not for
everyone) is a great treat for them!
You get to see them go into their hunting / prey drive mode.
Spectacular!
The way they hold their finnage, how fast they go in for the strike,
it's really lovely to see.
I recently had a pair of Pearscale spawn and the pair is getting ready
again. The female is plumping up again with eggs and her ovipositor
has been down a couple times already (a sure sign).
Tynk
On Mar 15, 8:08?pm, "dave349" <davester_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> i know what you mean, i bought 2 angels today (couldn't resist, i've
> always wanted some)) and i've put them in my 29g, i hope everything
> works out though and they don't become too agressive to my other fish.
> So far they've been really docile, and i love them, if i ever get a
> chance to buy another average sized tank (30-40g) it will be an all
> angel tank.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
I think Angels get a bad rap for being "aggressive" when they really
aren't.
I truly belive the hobbyist may not know the *why* and just think
they're aggressive fish.
Things that'll make them aggressive are:
When their tank is too small.
Males are sparring for a mate.
A pair is "testing" each other to see if the other is worthy of
spawning, and would be a good mate.
Or...a mates pair is "testing" each other to see if they are *still*
worthy.
Claiming a territory to spawn in.
Have eggs or will soon spawn.
Younger fish put in with older fish will get "pushed" around.
The dominant fish (male or female...sex doesn't matter here) will be
putting another fish in it's place.
Things like that are all very common reasons for aggression in a
usually peaceful fish.
It's up to the hobbyist to be able to read their body language and
know the *why*.
Angels have a variety of body language. It's very interesting to
learn, so I would advise both Muddy and Dave349 to get to know it.
Tynk
On Mar 16, 11:00�am, "dave349" <davester_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
these
> guys (or girls....btw can anyone tell me if theres ways to tell the
> difference?) >
> - Show quoted text -
There is a general, well sort of way to "kind of" tell the difference
between the sexes when not spawning, but it's not always right.
Some will say it's all in the head...that the males have a bumped up
forehead. Not always true though.
Some say there's always a way to tell...it's in the shape of the body
between the ventrals and the anal fin.
However, it's not always true. This is the *most often correct* method
when not spawning though.
The males usually have an angled body from behind the ventrals to the
front of the anal fin. The females are usually straight across in the
same area. However, many times it can be vice versa, so unless they're
spawning and you know which is laying eggs you can't be 100% sure.
My male Gold pearlscale (I recently posted pics of my angels spawning)
has a more female body shape.
I've had a female gold that had the body shape of a male, and the tip
of her spawning tube was a little deformed and wasn't blunt at the
tip, so when it hung out a little after a good feed, she looked like a
he.
You should've seen my face when I found *him* laying eggs! = O
Another *kimd of way* is after a good feed, the larger angels will
have their breeding tubes out just a little bit. You can usually spot
a male's pointed tube, where as the female's are more blunt. However,
it's the males that are more noticeable after a good feed.
Now when a pair is nearing the spawning stage their tubes are out for
the world to see. The male's is obviously pointed and the female's is
thicker, and the bottom is blunt.
Go back through the older posts and look for my pics of Angels
spawning.
I believe I have one of each the male and female's side view (with
tubes showing).
Just remember that this particular male has the body shape of what
most female's do (straight across).
Tynk
On Mar 16, 4:32�pm, Melissa Phillips <melg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My angel, "Bull" goes after everybody. He ate my gorgeous school of
> rummynose tetras a few years ago, that he was raised with:( The only
> smaller fish he never killed were 2 particular beckford's pencil fish.
> When ever I tried to add more he ate the new ones and left the original
> 2. Now he is in a bigger tank with rasboras, 2 gouramis another angel
> hatchet fish and botias, he chases them all but they can get away.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hi ya Melbabysweetheart! = )
Is Bull a Koi? I forgot what color morph he was, but didn;t forget his
personality.
How's he doing with the other Angel?
He's killed every mate he's had and I've been wondering about the new
angel.
Melissa Phillips
actually biting her. He has killed 2 or 3 previous mates, in the 29
gallon tank.
He actively pursues other fish, not just turning in their direction.
He will chase them across the tank, until they disappear into the
plants. I think having the rasboras to chase keeps his aggression off
the other angel.
Tynk
On Mar 16, 9:54�pm, Melissa Phillips <melg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> He chases her, occasionally pinning her in a corner but has stopped
> actually biting her. He has killed 2 or 3 previous mates, in the 29
> gallon tank.
> He actively pursues other fish, not just turning in their direction.
> He will chase them across the tank, until they disappear into the
> plants. I think having the rasboras to chase keeps his aggression off
> the other angel.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes, I would think so. Having dither fish is a good idea with Bull,
that's for sure!
Hoepfully Bull will be smitten with her or she will give back just
what he gives.
I'm getting ready for another spawn with my pearlscales.
= ) (big cheesy grin)!!!
Melissa Phillips
testing her less and less. They have been cleaning the anubias leaf
today. Bull is a crowned marble. He is one of the ones I got i dunno,
5 years ago, remember, and then he killed the other ones.
Natasha (the new one) is all black with some blue around the gills and
has red eyes.
Mister Gardener
> I think Angels get a bad rap for being "aggressive" when they really
> aren't.
> I truly belive the hobbyist may not know the *why* and just think
> they're aggressive fish.
I agree that all angels should not be painted with the same brush and that
many of their so called aggressive behaviors are simply the result of
specific goings on in their environment or in their physiological or social
state at the time - ie spawning, selecting mate, etc. And then there are
those rogue angels whose aggression cannot be explained by the usual stimuli
and are just plain "mean". Like my Little Miss Sunshine who happens to be a
koi. I suspect that angels, like other animals, which are the product of
extreme inbreeding can display "high strung" or "hair trigger" behaviors -
we've certainly seen this phenomenon in certain over-bred dogs.
MG
Mister Gardener
> actually biting her. He has killed 2 or 3 previous mates, in the 29
> gallon tank.
> He actively pursues other fish, not just turning in their direction.
> He will chase them across the tank, until they disappear into the
> plants.
We could set up a 29 gallon tank, introduce Bull and Little Miss Sunshine,
and charge admission. But maybe, instead of the expected bloodsport, they
might fall in love and produce millions of little fry.
MG
Melissa Phillips
anyone who buys the babies will need to be warned of their aggressive
genes! I wonder if parenthood would mellow him out. He bred a couple
times with his previous mates, but the eggs always got eaten or turned
white and then he killed them.
Tynk
On Mar 17, 7:10?am, "Mister Gardener" <mrgarde...@email.toast.net>
wrote:
Mr. G.,
I have noticed that many Koi Angels show this aggressive trait. Many
are mean little buggers that have no reason for acting so.
There used ti be a breeder in town that had a line of Koi veils that
were vicious! They ripped each other apart, went after other fish like
a pack of wolves, and just needed to be on their own. I bought one of
them before I knew about their behavior. I just thought it was her
line, but I hear more and more that folks are having aggression probs
with Koi. The one I had I actually brought back to her and said take
it. It's vicious. She didn't seam to think anything about it and and
said Yeah, that line is rather mean.
Also when I'm in shops and checking out their Angels tanks I have
noticed that the Koi's are bullying their tank mates and each other.
Seems to me to be more than just a coincidence.
Mister Gardener
> are mean little buggers that have no reason for acting so.
If I follow my own theories about extreme inbreeding, that might be at least
part of the mean kois I've heard about. I don't have market data, but a wild
guess would be that koi and blacks are two of the most popular angels -
making them very tempting for amateurs with little or no knowledge of
genetics as well as profit oriented large scale breeders who know and
understand genetics and don't care. I read an article somewhere about
selecting breeder angels for potential matchups, and either number one or
number two on the list was temperament. Having seen the terror and
destruction that my Little Miss Sunshine created, in spite of the fact that
she regular produced spawns of hundreds of eggs, I can certainly appreciate
the importance of avoiding her type when it comes to the breeding tank. I
don't need the worry and headaches, and I certainly don't want to pass along
her genes. She continues to be docile in her new home with the livebearers,
so hopefully she will live out her life as the only, and most beautiful
angel in that tank.
Yesterday a high pressure weather system moved down from Canada while a low
pressure storm system rolled up from the south, colliding overnight for a
nasty storm. I decided this morning to take advantage of the miserable
weather by doing a 50% water change with cooler water in my angel 55 gal.
Two of the three pairs are 10-12 days past their previous spawning, so
everything's pointing to this weekend being the perfect time to go at it
again.
When I decided to purchase my breeders last spring, I was looking for my all
time favorite angels, black marbles with an orange crown. They are among the
most reliable varieties available, they are hardy, friendly, and beautiful.
Though I found several breeders, none were consistent in the presence or
absence of the crown - and to me, a black marble without a crown is like a
Fenway Frank, (hot dog), without mustard. So I changed my focus to the
slightly greater challenge of DD blacks. The koi were pretty, but the only
reason I have them is because the breeder added a couple of tiny ones as a
gift. I have one surviving breedable, friendly koi, and I think he's a male.
He's in with the blacks now, and one of the black males is doing double
duty, pairing up regularly with two different females. This is the perfect
opportunity to try the koi with a black female. I envision gorgeous fry, but
they could just as easily be a disaster. We'll see.
MG - beginning to catch up with Tynk for the longest posts.
Dave Godwin
dave349
On Mar 17, 1:42 pm, Dave Godwin <davester_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> here's a few pictures of my new angels. sorry about the picture quality i took them on my phone, i also don't have an image resizer on this computer, i might be able to upload some smaller versions sometime today.
>
> angel.JPG
> 276KViewDownload
>
> angel (1).JPG
> 250KViewDownload
>
> angel (2).JPG
> 287KViewDownload
Mister Gardener
>
> On Mar 17, 1:42 pm, Dave Godwin <davester_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > here's a few pictures of my new angels.
Their species is Pterophyllum Scalare. There variety appears to be
?black marble ?half black ? black ?silver
Any or all of the above. Any single fish from a group of a given variety
doesn't always show all of the characteristics of the named variety. Many
pet shop angels display a mixed heritage - and the combinations of these
different characteristics are expressed in varying degrees; this is what
makes virtually all angels beautiful, imho. The second fish appears to have
two different colored ventrals, that looks pretty cool.
MG
NetMax
with a mix of undocumented wild Angelfish, and has produced what we
have today. In the wild there are separate species, but their
classification has not been straightforward.
A bit more info below, but like most of these Angelfish articles, I'm
not in 100% agreement with the author's conclusions. I'd really like
to see ray & scale counts used to differentiate scalare, leopoldi,
altum and eimekei, instead of head shape and stripe characteristics.
http://www.angelsplus.com/wildtype.htm
http://www.angelsplus.com/wildtype2.htm
Anyways, a Half black silver Pterophyllum scalare sounds a lot better
than a Half black silver mutt ;~)
~~
On Mar 18, 8:06 am, "Mister Gardener" <mrgarde...@email.toast.net>
wrote:
Mister Gardener
The Angelfish Society has undertaken to establish standards for all known ornamental types - they've been at it for a few years - their work is interesting and commendable, but the validity of their standards depends on how much credibility is given the Society by the rest of the scientific community.
MG
dave349
On Mar 18, 11:10 am, "Mister Gardener" <mrgarde...@email.toast.net>
wrote:
NetMax
phenotype) was and we went off into scientific mumbo jumbo
nomenclature-land ;~)
Thanks for the link MG! For me, the best might be a M/M V/+ and the
worse, a g/g s/s or a/a p/p, so I guess I'm a moderized
traditionalist ;~)
~~
> > MG- Hide quoted text -
Mister Gardener
> Dave is being polite. He just wanted to know what the strain (or
> phenotype) was and we went off into scientific mumbo jumbo
> nomenclature-land ;~)
I think I started it - trying to be polite and not tell him that his angels are mutts, describing instead the great heritage and beauty that is found in pet shop angels. Then you stepped in and called his fish mutts. From there I tried to salvage his mutts by referring to a society that is giving official names to mutts. And you've capped it off below by zooming right over my head with all those letters and slashes that are supposed to mean something. I still think of a punnit square as Groucho Marx driving an Edsel.
>
> Thanks for the link MG! For me, the best might be a M/M V/+ and the
> worse, a g/g s/s or a/a p/p, so I guess I'm a moderized
> traditionalist ;~)
Mister Gardener
that when I went to college DNA and RNA were the new hot topics, and the
biggest challenge was to remember how to spell them.
MG
dave349
were $4 angels, i wasn't expecting much when i've seen some the same
size go for $10-20 a piece. mine have probably been crossed with every
different kind imaginable lol. lol anyways, i dont midn the scientific
mumbo jumbo, the parts i understood were great :P
On Mar 18, 12:32 pm, "Mister Gardener" <mrgarde...@email.toast.net>
wrote:
NetMax
let's see.. but should be related to Angelfish... ok, how about a
paper on Angelfish escape trajectories?
http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/reprint/177/1/253.pdf
ps: MG, those Angelfish phenotypes were all from the site you listed.
You mean you don't read ever word on the web sites you recommend? ;~)
(neither do I)Anyways, not keen on albinos and gold pearlscales. I
like the veiltail marbles, not the drag-the-ventral along the gravel
or caudal hanging down super veiltails.
~~
dave349
Mister Gardener
Glad you enjoyed the show. We've been working on a routine, but neither of
us is sure which of us is the straight man.
MG
Mister Gardener
>
> > paper on Angelfish escape trajectories?
You know, there are people who make a living doing studies like this. And
get paid for it!
MG