Version control for academic writing
CB
I used Subversion for a while (I used to be a programmer), but found
that I tended to forget about it (don't know why this was never a
problem when writing programs).
Recently I found a nice little app called 'AJC Active Backup' which
keeps a watch on user-definable folders, and automatically keeps
diff-able and annotatable copies of every version of any file saved.
I'm just evaluating this at the moment, and haven't decided to buy it
yet, but it looks pretty good so far.
Another alternative for some would be to use the versioning built-in to
OpenOffice or Word, but that leaves out any ancillary files, and isn't
any good for those of use using LaTeX etc.
Any other ideas?
CB
> Does anyone here use aversion control system for their writing?
Of course I meant "a version control system"!
But if anyone knows of an effective writing aversion control system,
I'd love one of those too.
GTD Wannabe
system. See [1]. It's not automatic, but I find it works very well.
In addition, you can use it from windows explorer to check in other
text files (e.g., batch files). I don't know about non-text files, I
haven't explored that.
[1] http://www.componentsoftware.com/csrcs/Integration/winedt.htm
Jason Blevins
writing? > > I used Subversion for a while (I used to be a
programmer), but found > that I tended to forget about it (don't know
everything text--academic writing, web pages, and source code. RCS is
the basis of the previous generation of revision control systems so if
you're not interested in Subversion, I doubt you'll want to go to RCS.
However, I think RCS might be better suited for single files than
Subversion. Again, I have never used Subversion but from what I
understand, it is much like CVS and requires a lot of supporting
infrastructure. RCS only requires that you keep a copy of the master
revision file around for each document. So, for every file "paper.tex"
I have an accompanying "RCS/paper.tex,v" file. I have gotten in the
habit of checking files in before I close them, regardless of how much
I changed. I probably have way too many revisions for most things, but
RCS uses diff so the additional storage required is minimal. If you
have an editor with built-in revision control functions (such as emacs)
then checking in or out is just a few keystrokes. I should also note
that RCS can handle binaries as well, but I typically don't use it for
this. Jason
CB
go.
CB
superseded by CVS. It might be worth a look for me.
Subversion's actually easier than CVS to keep running, as you don't
need a server if you're content to primarily work on one machine.
Tortoise's SVN on Windows is pretty painless. But for some reason I
find it really hard to see writing as 'editing source' (even with
LaTeX) ,and I forget to commit changes etc. Maybe because writing for
me is never collaborative, so there's no-one else to be responsible to
;)
Jan Erik Moström
--
Jan Erik Moström, mos...@gmail.com
Jan Erik Moström
I use subversion both for version control and collaboration.
jeffus
CB wrote:
> Does anyone here use aversion control system for their writing?
On my Mac I used subversion with svnX to write my last paper.
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/development_tools/svnx.html
It provides a rather nice GUI interface. I only had one Mellel file to
work with, so it was rather easy.
regards
CB
it. It seems to chug away unproblematically in the background, keeping
revisions without me having to think about it.
Reluctant to recommend it too much, with the way flaws in software
often take much longer acquaintance to show themselves, but it's really
quite promising. It doesn't offer anything like the more sophisticated
facilities of CVS or subversion (branching, labelling whole groups of
files for release, etc), but for just simply keeping older versions of
my docs around for reference, it seems to do the job. It does have a
rudimentary system for adding notes to specific revisions of single
files. It also has built-in diff support for text and Word docs (but
not, unfortunately, OpenOffice).
Andrew
concept of "projects" to the software. A "project" would define a list
of folder names where the files for that project are stored. You would
then be able to apply a product version number to the latest revision
in all archives in a project.
I would be interested in anybody's view on this.
------
Andrew Cutforth - AJC Software - www.ajcsoft.com
The best folder synchronize and directory compare tool available.
AJC Active Backup instantly archives every file you edit giving you
unlimited undo and automatic revision control. Never lose your data
again.
arehrlich
AJC Active Backup a try. No matter how hard I try, I always seem to
screw up my version-backups.
Thanks
Alan
CB
Being able to apply a version number to folders would be a good idea
for what I do. If it could be done via a context-sensitive right-click
menu item, so much the better (the success of the Tortoise apps is a
testament to the value of Explorer integration for many users).
I'd be a bit careful about wasting too much of your time emulating many
other common version control features. The space for these kinds of
apps for programmers is well-filled, and you're not going to win many
over from CVS, SourceSafe, svc, etc. However there seems to be little
that's accurately targeted at version control for 'ordinary users'
files.
But versioning of groups of files via their parent folder, yes. Good
idea.
inetguy
synchroniation, try Foldershare. http://foldershare.com
They were recently putchased by the evil empire, but the software
works on Mac or Windows and has a web interface. It has helped me a
great deal in keeping everything in sync and I don't lose things as
often :)
From their site:
"FolderShareTM is a service that allows you to securely keep files
synchronized between your devices, share files with friends or
colleagues, and remotely download your files from any web browser.
FolderShare consists of two components - My FolderShare and the
FolderShare Satellite"
FolderShare Satellite: The software you need to install on the
device(s) you want to sync or share files.
My FolderShare: allows ou sync via a web interface."
It's worth mentioning since the conversation went this way.
Dennis
rickla
CB
industry is just not that ambitious these days.
Marcel
to keep tabs on my academic writing (using Aquamacs and LaTeX or txt
files).
Installation was easy - just installed the Developr tools from the OS X
disc.
However, I find it slightly confusing, especially since I have only
been using emacs for a short while. I have googled "RCS" to look for a
beginners guide but have come up with nothing. Can anyone recommend any
guide or tutorial on the www?
Thanks,
Matthew
Ted Pavlic
Subversion) extend RCS in such a way that makes them more appropriate
for large projects distributed over groups of people. In most
"academic" cases, we're talking about smaller (compared to a software
project) documents distributed over only a small number of authors
(often with only one author doing the editing). This is perfect for
RCS.
Additionally, there are lots of pre-existing utilities that integrate
RCS well into popular applications.
CSRCS on Windows is a great idea. And the free version should be
sufficient for most "academics". (note that CSRCS supports RCS
repositories over FTP, which can be nice)
However, I also recommend installing GNU RCS along side CSRCS. It
doesn't hurt to use both. They write and read standard RCS versioning
files, so they work together. If you have both installed, then every
popular editor has an RCS plugin that will work. On my machine, every
editor (Vim, TextPad, UltraEdit, all of MS Office, and WinEdt) has an
RCS menu that allows for easy checking in, checking out, locking,
diffing, etc. (and there are plugins for emacs as well)
Once upon a time I put up this list of RCS utilities for Windows
(though many of these links are general and apply to any OS) and how to
get CSRCS working with GNU RCS within most of the popular editors. (I
didn't include any emacs info, but it should be easy to find)
http://www.tedpavlic.com/links.php#RCS
Once you have RCS installed, it's simple to use. A good place to start
(regardless of OS) might be:
http://www.uvm.edu/~ashawley/rcs/tichy1985rcs.html
Try the "Getting started with RCS" page:
http://www.uvm.edu/~ashawley/rcs/tichy1985rcs/html/ar01s02.html
Once you get used to the idea of "checking in" and "checking out" and
"locking," then there's really not much more you need to know.
Jan Erik Moström
> industry is just not that ambitious these days.
Or possible that no one want to pay what it cost, or possible that
no-one has told the software developers that "this" is needed, or ...
BTW - what exactly was it you wanted?
Matthew Lovell
That's just what I was looking for. I did want to start using (and trusting) RCS for my thesis and other other projects without knowing a little more. As you say and the link documents it looks pretty straightforward. I will start using it from today. The bonus for me is it seems to work well from inside Aquamacs, which I am using to write my thesis.
If I am forced to use windows at work again, the info on your site will be useful too.
Thanks,
M.
Ted Pavlic
> go.
CS-RCS does not only integrate with WinEdt. It integrates with lots of
popular text editors. I have information about TextPad and UltraEdit
integration here:
http://www.tedpavlic.com/links.php#RCS
And CS-RCS has links to other integration add-ons for other editors
(including Emacs variants) here:
http://www.componentsoftware.com/csrcs/Integration/addons.htm
And finally, you can always use GNU RCS instead of CS RCS. It is easily
integrated in yet more editors (like Vim: see my links page above for
information about GNU RCS integration within Vim).
And CS-RCS and GNU RCS can co-exist with the same RCS repositories. Use
RCS integration in some apps and CS-RCS integration in others. Use some
of the GUI CS-RCS tools to manage your repositories.
CB
system" typo.
In reality there seems to be plenty out there that more than meets my
needs.
Ben Wilson
engineering context that y'all have been discussing. However, while RCS
may be good for managing small projects, you can use CVS for an entire
HOME directory. I did this for my Linux home directory and after three
years I can still conjure up my entire HOME directory. This is good now
that I'm wrapping up law school and need to start ironing out my resume
again.
For what it's worth.
Ben
Tom Lieber
> However, while RCS
> may be good for managing small projects, you can use CVS for an entire
> HOME directory. I did this for my Linux home directory and after three
> years I can still conjure up my entire HOME directory. This is good now
> that I'm wrapping up law school and need to start ironing out my resume
> again.
>
> For what it's worth.
Do you comment all your commits? Do you also version all of the
preference directories in your home folder?
> Ben
Sincerely,
Tom Lieber
http://AllTom.com/
http://GadgetLife.org/
CB
license for AJC. As a result of some of the comments posted here, I was
tempted by RCS, and did download and play with both CRCS and GNU RCS.
But I still have the fundamental issue of remembering to commit, and my
editor of choice (SciTe) doesn't AFAIK have an RCS plugin. And RCS has
more facilities than I need for just keeping a record of changes to my
LaTeX, Bibtex and Openoffice files.
As AJC Backup keeps its own watch on files, it's neutral regarding
choice of editor etc, and I haven't had to touch it after the initial
5-minute install and configuration step. I recommend a look at it to
anyone who has similar requirements to mine.
Jan Erik Moström
(and it's also easier to understand)
CB
current purposes the .svn directories to be a bit of a nuisance, and it
means jumping over to either Tortoise or a command line to commit to
the repository. But it is free and great in many ways. Different
requirements, etc.
Jan Erik Moström
Just curious, if you use CVS, don't you find the CVS directories even
worse? I don't remember exactly how RCS handled files (it's been 20
years or so) but wasn't there a lot of extra files involved there?
CB
them a nuisance.
C-RCS allows you to keep RCS's diff files all in a central repository,
with no working copy clutter.
I'm not claiming the 'clutter' is that big a deal by the way. It's just
a minor pest in my context (docs I'm writing, and a few local config
files for apps etc). Where version control looms larger in importance
and required functionality (eg. programming, especially in teams), I
wouldn't worry about it at all.
For my relatively undemanding use, being able to tell an app to
automatically keep versions of all files with specified extensions
within specified directory hierarchies (which is what ajc active
backup does) really keeps things pleasantly simple.
Jan Erik Moström
> with no working copy clutter.
ahhh
Personally my biggest problem with systems like subversion, cvs and I
assume RCS is that they doesn't recognize OS X bundles which can cause
problems.
A bundle is a document in OS X which in reality is made up of a
directory and files/sub-directories. It's very nice but cause problems
when svn/cvs inserts extra folders to keep track of changes,
especially for apps like Keynote that when saving makes a new document
and then delete the old one ...
Ted Pavlic
> editor of choice (SciTe) doesn't AFAIK have an RCS plugin.
Many plugins will automatically save your current work at the instant
you check it in from the built-in menu. Thus, rather than remembering
to do one extra thing, you simply replace "Saving" with "Checking in."
That's not too bad of an adjustment.
Or maybe this is more appealing. If you're a windows user, perhaps you
would like a tool like TortoiseCVS:
It should be easy to remember when to check in your changes because
files that are not checked in will have a different icon.
Thus, TortoiseCVS integrates into Windows Explorer rather than into
your editor.
> And RCS has
> more facilities than I need for just keeping a record of changes to my
> LaTeX, Bibtex and Openoffice files.
I think that's just your perception. The only thing that RCS (and CVS)
does that you probably wouldn't be interested in involves allowing for
multi-user editing. Otherwise, it's a very simple program that isn't
more complicated than AJC. You check in your changes. If you ever want
to review changes, compare the current version to old versions. The
tools mentioned here make this simple to do.
In the end, I guess, it's about your own comfort with the system. It
sounds like you really like AJC, so I guess that's fine.
Ted Pavlic
> with no working copy clutter.
Keep in mind that there is no need to ever store *,v files at the same
level as the actual source files in any RCS environment.
Simply creating a subdirectory named "RCS" will make a standard
command-line RCS tool store its ,v files within it. If you simply
overlook the RCS directory, then there is no clutter at all in your
source directory.
Ben Wilson
Journal article on CVS and home directories.[1] If it is important, I
will comment a commit, but usually I do not worry about that as much. I
have versioned my home directory, which has saved my bacon a time or
two. This is different when it is important, such as a software
project. Then, I always commented based on the ticket ID.
CB
> I think that's just your perception. The only thing that RCS (and CVS)
> does that you probably wouldn't be interested in involves allowing for
> multi-user editing. Otherwise, it's a very simple program that isn't
> more complicated than AJC. You check in your changes. If you ever want
> to review changes, compare the current version to old versions. The
> tools mentioned here make this simple to do.
>
Oh, I'm quite comfortable with cvs and svn, in GUI and command-line
versions, both of which I used for programming for years. And I agree
with you - I particularly recommend tortoiseSVN to anyone who wants to
give this approach a try, but CS-RCS also looks nice from my brief
look.
It's more a matter of my becoming intolerant of spending any time on
the computer other than purely dealing with 'content'. My approach to
the computer these days is to find apps whereever possible that require
minimal or no non-content-related intervention from me.
I'd even like to dump LaTeX and Bibtex if something better came along
which required no configuration, searching for and installing packages
etc. But as yet I've found nothing else worth using for academic
writing.
Ted Pavlic
> which required no configuration, searching for and installing packages
You really should consider using WinEdt. (or at least giving it a try)
Among other things, WinEdt will automatically find, download, and
install missing packages for you as you need them.
Plus, there's really no configuration. Just install MiKTeX. Install
WinEdt. And off you go. The only configuration you need is if you want
to customize the WinEdt interface (which is very customizable).
I know you like SciTE; however, WinEdt is really a quality editor. It's
very general, so you could use it to edit anything. It's a TERRIFIC
editor for LaTeX though.
> etc. But as yet I've found nothing else worth using for academic
> writing.
There are other alternatives that can be used for academic writing, but
most of them come with a hefty cost.
CB
>
> You really should consider using WinEdt. (or at least giving it a try)
>
OK, that's several recommendations I've had re WinEdt. I shall try it.
You know how deeply embedded in habit editors can be though ..
> There are other alternatives that can be used for academic writing, but
> most of them come with a hefty cost.
When OpenOffice get their bibliographic act together, it might be a
free contender. Bruce D'Arcus (blog at
http://netapps.muohio.edu/blogs/darcusb/darcusb/) is consistently the
most interesting commentator on matters bibliographic, and he's now
part of the OO bibliographic project.
talazem
control software. The idea of keeping versions of my
documents-in-the-making however is attractive. I downloaded the Mac
version of subversion and its frontend, svnX.
Alas, the command line. Again, no familiarity with anything that
requires the command line.
Could anyone post a little step-by-step guide on how to get subversion
and svnX up and working on a mac? It might be of great help and a
service to others on this list as well, in addition to people
google-ing for such information. Thanks in advance.
CB
which looks fairly straightforward:
http://www.chrisjdavis.org/university/svn-on-macos-x/
Matthew Lovell
http://wiki.ehow.com/Install-Subversion-on-Mac-OS-X
http://developer.apple.com/tools/subversionxcode.html
http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/08/10/subversion.html
http://www.joshbuhler.com/2005/07/05/setting-up-the-subversion-client-on-mac-os-x/
When work calms down I will try and install svn on my macs, and let you know how it goes. But at the moment I am happy using RCS with emacs. As discussed earlier in this thread.
talazem
personal computer, and not on a server over the net? I'd like version
control of my writing, but I am not always online. It seems all of the
above links assume one is posting the revisions etc. to an external
server. How could I do this on my own laptop? Sorry for the simplistic
questions, but again I have no programming experience, and just a user
of various types of software, so this stuff sometimes confounds me.
CB
keep searching: subversion definitely does not need a central server
(though one would normally be used for collaborative use). The
'repository' (ie. the store for revisions) can be just a directory on
your local filesystem.
Jan Erik Moström
> personal computer, and not on a server over the net?
Yes. What you do is that you install subversion but you never set up a
server. Then instead of giving the path to a server you just use it
locally. Take a look at the subversion book
<http://svnbook.red-bean.com/> which explains in great detail how
subversion works, how to set up things, etc.
Jan Erik Moström
subversion book, on-line, as a PDF or in the printed version (although
it's a bit older). You can find it here:
<http://svnbook.red-bean.com/>
pgogineni
sort of version control since i will be collaberating with a few other
writers. I am still in the dark ages of using word since that is what
others in the group use. I was wondering if these version control
systems work well with word files? Also has anyone tried online
collaberation sites like writeboard or writely. They do have a built
in version control that seems pretty neat.
thanks
prasanth
Ben Wilson
IIRC, CVS can archive binary, but not perform delta operations (i.e.
show changes between versions).
My advice on collaborating via Word is to break the project down into
discrete sections. You will also want to track changes (check Word's
Help for more information). In the alternative, do most of the
preleminary work via text documents (or a wiki), then when it is time
to consolidate a final product, have one person pull the documents
together.
The PmWiki software has a way of building PDFs from wiki pages.[1]
Although, that may be a bit much for a short project.
Ben
pgogineni
Yeah I was going to do all the prelim work on the websites (writeboard
or writely) and then pull them back into word to do the final
revisions.
prasanth
Jan Erik Moström
> IIRC, CVS can archive binary, but not perform delta operations (i.e.
> show changes between versions).
subversion handles binary files but I don't know what happens if you
try to merge binary files. My experiences of using Word for
collaborative writing or rather terrible and I haven't used Word in a
couple of years so ...
Ben Wilson
contributers. Each had a specific section. I was the compiler, and it
took about an hour to unify the sections. Since I hale from an IT
background, I use CSS to configure my print output from a web page,
which works well in an informal context. I mean, I took notes all
semester long using vim and posting remotely to a web site. Now, to
read through my notes, I just hit print on the web page.
Ben
CB
versions (I mean comparing as text, not binary). It's really for
individual use though (no collaboration features).
I've used Writely a bit. If your formatting requirements are simple, it
seems largely problem free. I imagine you could use it for the
collaboration phase and then reformat the final document versions
locally. They haven't accepted any more sign-ups since being acquired
by Google, though, so it's only any use if you already have an account.
CB
Writer. I haven't used them, but everything else I've tried in OO seems
to work so much more straightforwardly than in Word, so it might be
worth a look.