Performance of the SL client(s), end user network, and the entire SL
server+network cloud is important to all of us. Some performance
problems are local to one or a few clients, while others have wider
impact. The term "Lag" seems to be generally used to describe this
entire collection of problems, but lacks precision. I propose we use
this thread to start a discussion of known causes of lag, where each
cause actually lives, and possible solutions and workarounds.
Probably we should also assign each source with a severity and
urgency, to help focus our efforts on what to address first. Two
anecdotes follow, and then I hope to hear a chorus of replies to get
things going.
1. I am running on a macbook pro, leopard, 2 GB RAM. My avi is in my
unfurnished NPC2 office, motionless, starring at a wall. It is late
at night, and I am alone on the island. In RL, I look at my DSL
modem, and the lights are screaming with activity! My DSL line
downloads average speed of 4Mbs. Why is it so busy while my SL
environment is static? Is this problem in my client, or in all
clients, or in the SL server cloud? My years of IT experience say
this looks like a network loading problem not waiting to happen. My
intuition says look at the client coding, or the protocol for
refreshing the current "view." Anyone have an explanation?
2. My Idaho team member and I meet after 10 pm SLT in our unfurnished
NPC2 office to discuss space planning. We activate voice chat, as it
is easier for me than typing. His avi goes FUBAR until we kill the
voice chat. We continue the meeting IW, with a RL phone call at same
time. He types notes from both of us into the chat window, which we
later archive and post to our team's Yahoo group. Did I mention his
internet connection is radio based, with the antenna in a tall tree?
Oh, plus RL wind and snow at his location. This one was easy to
solve, but remember there were only 2 of us, avi's mostly motionless,
alone on the island.
Thanks for reading this far! Can someone volunteer to track the lag issues that I hope everyone will hopefully log below? If not, then at
least this group thread will contain a log, sort of. I volunteer to
visit the Lindens in RL once we have a list of high priority, high
impact/urgency issues for them to consider addressing.
Thanks in advance for your replies, input and suggestions...
Ron/Buteo
Keep in mind the difference between latency and lag. Latency is the delay or how long it takes to get a response (objective), while lag is when it takes longer than you think it should (more subjective). Someone on a high latency link like satellite is obviously going to be worse off. Also, it seems all objects in SL are handled by a single database, which drops connections when it gets too busy. I'm suspecting poor design, for starters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag
Here are some simple things that practically everyone can do to reduce
"lag, latency, and poor performance" during Second Life sessions.
These items are not in the "rocket science" category, and are platform
independent.
1. Use a wired connection instead of a wireless connection, if you
have a choice.
2. If you are using wireless, with WEP encryption, consider turning
off WEP on your wireless hub. We got at 25% improvement in download
speed by doing this. Note your network is now "open"!!
3. Turn off file and printer sharing on your workstation/laptop.
4. Quit all applications except the 2nd Life client. Especially turn
off iTunes, which battles mightily with the SL client.
5. If you feel brave, and want more speed, temporarily disable your
anti-virus software. Norton allows you to disable antivirus
temporarily or until the next reboot. CAUTION: be sure to re-enable
antivirus ASAP when done using SL
6. While using the SL client:
a. don't use voice/talk feature unless needed. you're better off
using a landline or cell for voice if possible.
b. minimize movement of your avatar, your movement propagates
performance problems for everyone who can see your avatar. use camera
controls when possible to look around.
That's it for this round of suggestions! If you use any of this, and
it works or blows up, please report back so we can learn. Please use
extreme caution if you disable Antivirus protection!! A friend of
mine just got nailed badly when he forgot to re-enable his Antivirus
protection after troubleshooting a problem with HP. Yikes!!
There are more advanced techniques to improve performance, and some of
them are platform specific. I'll publish that info in a future
posting.
Cheers!
Ron/Buteo
On Mar 14, 6:59 pm, "Buteo Ruttan IW/ - r...@ophoenix.org"
> Performance of the SL client(s), end user network, and the entire SL
> server+network cloud is important to all of us. Some performance
> problems are local to one or a few clients, while others have wider
> impact. The term "Lag" seems to be generally used to describe this
> entire collection of problems, but lacks precision. I propose we use
> this thread to start a discussion of known causes of lag, where each
> cause actually lives, and possible solutions and workarounds.
> Probably we should also assign each source with a severity and
> urgency, to help focus our efforts on what to address first. Two
> anecdotes follow, and then I hope to hear a chorus of replies to get
> things going.
> 1. I am running on a macbook pro, leopard, 2 GB RAM. My avi is in my
> unfurnished NPC2 office, motionless, starring at a wall. It is late
> at night, and I am alone on the island. In RL, I look at my DSL
> modem, and the lights are screaming with activity! My DSL line
> downloads average speed of 4Mbs. Why is it so busy while my SL
> environment is static? Is this problem in my client, or in all
> clients, or in the SL server cloud? My years of IT experience say
> this looks like a network loading problem not waiting to happen. My
> intuition says look at the client coding, or the protocol for
> refreshing the current "view." Anyone have an explanation?
> 2. My Idaho team member and I meet after 10 pm SLT in our unfurnished
> NPC2 office to discuss space planning. We activate voice chat, as it
> is easier for me than typing. His avi goes FUBAR until we kill the
> voice chat. We continue the meeting IW, with a RL phone call at same
> time. He types notes from both of us into the chat window, which we
> later archive and post to our team's Yahoo group. Did I mention his
> internet connection is radio based, with the antenna in a tall tree?
> Oh, plus RL wind and snow at his location. This one was easy to
> solve, but remember there were only 2 of us, avi's mostly motionless,
> alone on the island.
> Thanks for reading this far! Can someone volunteer to track the lag > issues that I hope everyone will hopefully log below? If not, then at
> least this group thread will contain a log, sort of. I volunteer to
> visit the Lindens in RL once we have a list of high priority, high
> impact/urgency issues for them to consider addressing.
> Thanks in advance for your replies, input and suggestions...
> Ron/Buteo
I do all that and I've got a cable modem wired connection and a quad-core processor wi a ton of memory. My SL client is still dog slow at times.
To increase performance, folks can also turn down their video settings and turn off particles and fog.
I suspect there are some serious server performance issues going on. Things might get better with the new command interpreter and physics that coming up...
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Buteo Ruttan (IW) - r...@ophoenix.org
> Here are some simple things that practically everyone can do to reduce > "lag, latency, and poor performance" during Second Life sessions. > These items are not in the "rocket science" category, and are platform > independent.
> 1. Use a wired connection instead of a wireless connection, if you > have a choice. > 2. If you are using wireless, with WEP encryption, consider turning > off WEP on your wireless hub. We got at 25% improvement in download > speed by doing this. Note your network is now "open"!! > 3. Turn off file and printer sharing on your workstation/laptop. > 4. Quit all applications except the 2nd Life client. Especially turn > off iTunes, which battles mightily with the SL client. > 5. If you feel brave, and want more speed, temporarily disable your > anti-virus software. Norton allows you to disable antivirus > temporarily or until the next reboot. CAUTION: be sure to re-enable > antivirus ASAP when done using SL > 6. While using the SL client: > a. don't use voice/talk feature unless needed. you're better off > using a landline or cell for voice if possible. > b. minimize movement of your avatar, your movement propagates > performance problems for everyone who can see your avatar. use camera > controls when possible to look around.
> That's it for this round of suggestions! If you use any of this, and > it works or blows up, please report back so we can learn. Please use > extreme caution if you disable Antivirus protection!! A friend of > mine just got nailed badly when he forgot to re-enable his Antivirus > protection after troubleshooting a problem with HP. Yikes!!
> There are more advanced techniques to improve performance, and some of > them are platform specific. I'll publish that info in a future > posting.
> Cheers! > Ron/Buteo
> On Mar 14, 6:59 pm, "Buteo Ruttan IW/ - r...@ophoenix.org"
> <sancarlosas...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi everyone,
> > Performance of the SL client(s), end user network, and the entire SL > > server+network cloud is important to all of us. Some performance > > problems are local to one or a few clients, while others have wider > > impact. The term "Lag" seems to be generally used to describe this > > entire collection of problems, but lacks precision. I propose we use > > this thread to start a discussion of known causes of lag, where each > > cause actually lives, and possible solutions and workarounds. > > Probably we should also assign each source with a severity and > > urgency, to help focus our efforts on what to address first. Two > > anecdotes follow, and then I hope to hear a chorus of replies to get > > things going.
> > 1. I am running on a macbook pro, leopard, 2 GB RAM. My avi is in my > > unfurnished NPC2 office, motionless, starring at a wall. It is late > > at night, and I am alone on the island. In RL, I look at my DSL > > modem, and the lights are screaming with activity! My DSL line > > downloads average speed of 4Mbs. Why is it so busy while my SL > > environment is static? Is this problem in my client, or in all > > clients, or in the SL server cloud? My years of IT experience say > > this looks like a network loading problem not waiting to happen. My > > intuition says look at the client coding, or the protocol for > > refreshing the current "view." Anyone have an explanation?
> > 2. My Idaho team member and I meet after 10 pm SLT in our unfurnished > > NPC2 office to discuss space planning. We activate voice chat, as it > > is easier for me than typing. His avi goes FUBAR until we kill the > > voice chat. We continue the meeting IW, with a RL phone call at same > > time. He types notes from both of us into the chat window, which we > > later archive and post to our team's Yahoo group. Did I mention his > > internet connection is radio based, with the antenna in a tall tree? > > Oh, plus RL wind and snow at his location. This one was easy to > > solve, but remember there were only 2 of us, avi's mostly motionless, > > alone on the island.
> > Thanks for reading this far! Can someone volunteer to track the lag > > issues that I hope everyone will hopefully log below? If not, then at > > least this group thread will contain a log, sort of. I volunteer to > > visit the Lindens in RL once we have a list of high priority, high > > impact/urgency issues for them to consider addressing. > > Thanks in advance for your replies, input and suggestions... > > Ron/Buteo
Your comment "dog slow" may be telling. If you ever get good
performance from your config, then my guess is you're seeing a
performance problem external to your computer. My first guess would
be that the intermittent problem mostly lives in the Linden server
cloud. Less likely but also possible, other network traffic on your
comcast service could account for some significant performance
degredation. At my previous employer, troubleshooting and resolving
this kind of problem was my passion and skill. I would offer my help
to the folks at Linden, but I don't know who to approach there. Any
suggestions on how to engage the Linden people in this effort
(optimizing performance and reliability of their WAN application, i.e.
2nd Life) would be greatly appreciated.
Best regards,
Ron/Buteo
PS I assume you're running WinXP, with a "perfectly sized" paging
file? This is more like rocket science for many of our readers, but
important to discuss :)
On Apr 10, 9:16 pm, "Manifold Destiny" <k9rescue...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I do all that and I've got a cable modem wired connection and a
> quad-core processor wi a ton of memory. My SL client is still dog
> slow at times.
> To increase performance, folks can also turn down their video settings
> and turn off particles and fog.
> I suspect there are some serious server performance issues going on.
> Things might get better with the new command interpreter and physics
> that coming up...
> On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Buteo Ruttan (IW) - r...@ophoenix.org
> > Here are some simple things that practically everyone can do to reduce
> > "lag, latency, and poor performance" during Second Life sessions.
> > These items are not in the "rocket science" category, and are platform
> > independent.
> > 1. Use a wired connection instead of a wireless connection, if you
> > have a choice.
> > 2. If you are using wireless, with WEP encryption, consider turning
> > off WEP on your wireless hub. We got at 25% improvement in download
> > speed by doing this. Note your network is now "open"!!
> > 3. Turn off file and printer sharing on your workstation/laptop.
> > 4. Quit all applications except the 2nd Life client. Especially turn
> > off iTunes, which battles mightily with the SL client.
> > 5. If you feel brave, and want more speed, temporarily disable your
> > anti-virus software. Norton allows you to disable antivirus
> > temporarily or until the next reboot. CAUTION: be sure to re-enable
> > antivirus ASAP when done using SL
> > 6. While using the SL client:
> > a. don't use voice/talk feature unless needed. you're better off
> > using a landline or cell for voice if possible.
> > b. minimize movement of your avatar, your movement propagates
> > performance problems for everyone who can see your avatar. use camera
> > controls when possible to look around.
> > That's it for this round of suggestions! If you use any of this, and
> > it works or blows up, please report back so we can learn. Please use
> > extreme caution if you disable Antivirus protection!! A friend of
> > mine just got nailed badly when he forgot to re-enable his Antivirus
> > protection after troubleshooting a problem with HP. Yikes!!
> > There are more advanced techniques to improve performance, and some of
> > them are platform specific. I'll publish that info in a future
> > posting.
> > Cheers!
> > Ron/Buteo
> > On Mar 14, 6:59 pm, "Buteo Ruttan IW/ - r...@ophoenix.org"
> > <sancarlosas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi everyone,
> > > Performance of the SL client(s), end user network, and the entire SL
> > > server+network cloud is important to all of us. Some performance
> > > problems are local to one or a few clients, while others have wider
> > > impact. The term "Lag" seems to be generally used to describe this
> > > entire collection of problems, but lacks precision. I propose we use
> > > this thread to start a discussion of known causes of lag, where each
> > > cause actually lives, and possible solutions and workarounds.
> > > Probably we should also assign each source with a severity and
> > > urgency, to help focus our efforts on what to address first. Two
> > > anecdotes follow, and then I hope to hear a chorus of replies to get
> > > things going.
> > > 1. I am running on a macbook pro, leopard, 2 GB RAM. My avi is in my
> > > unfurnished NPC2 office, motionless, starring at a wall. It is late
> > > at night, and I am alone on the island. In RL, I look at my DSL
> > > modem, and the lights are screaming with activity! My DSL line
> > > downloads average speed of 4Mbs. Why is it so busy while my SL
> > > environment is static? Is this problem in my client, or in all
> > > clients, or in the SL server cloud? My years of IT experience say
> > > this looks like a network loading problem not waiting to happen. My
> > > intuition says look at the client coding, or the protocol for
> > > refreshing the current "view." Anyone have an explanation?
> > > 2. My Idaho team member and I meet after 10 pm SLT in our unfurnished
> > > NPC2 office to discuss space planning. We activate voice chat, as it
> > > is easier for me than typing. His avi goes FUBAR until we kill the
> > > voice chat. We continue the meeting IW, with a RL phone call at same
> > > time. He types notes from both of us into the chat window, which we
> > > later archive and post to our team's Yahoo group. Did I mention his
> > > internet connection is radio based, with the antenna in a tall tree?
> > > Oh, plus RL wind and snow at his location. This one was easy to
> > > solve, but remember there were only 2 of us, avi's mostly motionless,
> > > alone on the island.
> > > Thanks for reading this far! Can someone volunteer to track the lag > > > issues that I hope everyone will hopefully log below? If not, then at
> > > least this group thread will contain a log, sort of. I volunteer to
> > > visit the Lindens in RL once we have a list of high priority, high
> > > impact/urgency issues for them to consider addressing.
> > > Thanks in advance for your replies, input and suggestions...
> > > Ron/Buteo
Thankees for the info and all that. However, I don't think either of my systems can be saved. They're both giving the 'hairy eyeball' to anything that even remotely resembles SL. This,of course, is highly inconvenient as I'm starting a business in SL. Isn't timing wonderful?
On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 9:31 PM, Morris Cox <morris...@gmail.com> wrote: > Keep in mind the difference between latency and lag. Latency is the delay > or how long it takes to get a response (objective), while lag is when it > takes longer than you think it should (more subjective). Someone on a high > latency link like satellite is obviously going to be worse off. Also, it > seems all objects in SL are handled by a single database, which drops > connections when it gets too busy. I'm suspecting poor design, for starters. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag
I've got a number of machines - from XP to XP64 to Vista 64 and anywhere from 2G to 8G of memory. Not all that much difference between them as far as SL goes...
On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 1:40 AM, Buteo Ruttan (IW) - r...@ophoenix.org
> Your comment "dog slow" may be telling. If you ever get good > performance from your config, then my guess is you're seeing a > performance problem external to your computer. My first guess would > be that the intermittent problem mostly lives in the Linden server > cloud. Less likely but also possible, other network traffic on your > comcast service could account for some significant performance > degredation. At my previous employer, troubleshooting and resolving > this kind of problem was my passion and skill. I would offer my help > to the folks at Linden, but I don't know who to approach there. Any > suggestions on how to engage the Linden people in this effort > (optimizing performance and reliability of their WAN application, i.e. > 2nd Life) would be greatly appreciated.
> Best regards, > Ron/Buteo
> PS I assume you're running WinXP, with a "perfectly sized" paging > file? This is more like rocket science for many of our readers, but > important to discuss :)
> > I do all that and I've got a cable modem wired connection and a > > quad-core processor wi a ton of memory. My SL client is still dog > > slow at times.
> > To increase performance, folks can also turn down their video settings > > and turn off particles and fog.
> > I suspect there are some serious server performance issues going on. > > Things might get better with the new command interpreter and physics > > that coming up...
> > On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Buteo Ruttan (IW) - r...@ophoenix.org
> > > Here are some simple things that practically everyone can do to reduce > > > "lag, latency, and poor performance" during Second Life sessions. > > > These items are not in the "rocket science" category, and are platform > > > independent.
> > > 1. Use a wired connection instead of a wireless connection, if you > > > have a choice. > > > 2. If you are using wireless, with WEP encryption, consider turning > > > off WEP on your wireless hub. We got at 25% improvement in download > > > speed by doing this. Note your network is now "open"!! > > > 3. Turn off file and printer sharing on your workstation/laptop. > > > 4. Quit all applications except the 2nd Life client. Especially turn > > > off iTunes, which battles mightily with the SL client. > > > 5. If you feel brave, and want more speed, temporarily disable your > > > anti-virus software. Norton allows you to disable antivirus > > > temporarily or until the next reboot. CAUTION: be sure to re-enable > > > antivirus ASAP when done using SL > > > 6. While using the SL client: > > > a. don't use voice/talk feature unless needed. you're better off > > > using a landline or cell for voice if possible. > > > b. minimize movement of your avatar, your movement propagates > > > performance problems for everyone who can see your avatar. use camera > > > controls when possible to look around.
> > > That's it for this round of suggestions! If you use any of this, and > > > it works or blows up, please report back so we can learn. Please use > > > extreme caution if you disable Antivirus protection!! A friend of > > > mine just got nailed badly when he forgot to re-enable his Antivirus > > > protection after troubleshooting a problem with HP. Yikes!!
> > > There are more advanced techniques to improve performance, and some of > > > them are platform specific. I'll publish that info in a future > > > posting.
> > > Cheers! > > > Ron/Buteo
> > > On Mar 14, 6:59 pm, "Buteo Ruttan IW/ - r...@ophoenix.org"
> > > > Performance of the SL client(s), end user network, and the entire SL > > > > server+network cloud is important to all of us. Some performance > > > > problems are local to one or a few clients, while others have wider > > > > impact. The term "Lag" seems to be generally used to describe this > > > > entire collection of problems, but lacks precision. I propose we use > > > > this thread to start a discussion of known causes of lag, where each > > > > cause actually lives, and possible solutions and workarounds. > > > > Probably we should also assign each source with a severity and > > > > urgency, to help focus our efforts on what to address first. Two > > > > anecdotes follow, and then I hope to hear a chorus of replies to get > > > > things going.
> > > > 1. I am running on a macbook pro, leopard, 2 GB RAM. My avi is in my > > > > unfurnished NPC2 office, motionless, starring at a wall. It is late > > > > at night, and I am alone on the island. In RL, I look at my DSL > > > > modem, and the lights are screaming with activity! My DSL line > > > > downloads average speed of 4Mbs. Why is it so busy while my SL > > > > environment is static? Is this problem in my client, or in all > > > > clients, or in the SL server cloud? My years of IT experience say > > > > this looks like a network loading problem not waiting to happen. My > > > > intuition says look at the client coding, or the protocol for > > > > refreshing the current "view." Anyone have an explanation?
> > > > 2. My Idaho team member and I meet after 10 pm SLT in our unfurnished > > > > NPC2 office to discuss space planning. We activate voice chat, as it > > > > is easier for me than typing. His avi goes FUBAR until we kill the > > > > voice chat. We continue the meeting IW, with a RL phone call at same > > > > time. He types notes from both of us into the chat window, which we > > > > later archive and post to our team's Yahoo group. Did I mention his > > > > internet connection is radio based, with the antenna in a tall tree? > > > > Oh, plus RL wind and snow at his location. This one was easy to > > > > solve, but remember there were only 2 of us, avi's mostly motionless, > > > > alone on the island.
> > > > Thanks for reading this far! Can someone volunteer to track the lag > > > > issues that I hope everyone will hopefully log below? If not, then at > > > > least this group thread will contain a log, sort of. I volunteer to > > > > visit the Lindens in RL once we have a list of high priority, high > > > > impact/urgency issues for them to consider addressing. > > > > Thanks in advance for your replies, input and suggestions... > > > > Ron/Buteo
This is a telling thread and I shared it with a SL backchannel that
Lindens watch frequently to keep the conversation in front of them.
I'm sure one or two of them can come here to see the whole
conversation.
For the record, my G5 Mac tower is not able to stay stable enough with
Windlight to run machinima. This saddens me greatly but my PC will be
fixed in a few weeks. The XO laptop doesn't run SL but most intel
machines will run it very, very slowly. Will try again in AjaxLife or
similar web browser clients on the XO as they become available.
Any news on the Samsung mobile client? I kept hearing whispers of
people working on iPhone clients but many of us use the Nokia/Symbian
system.
