FW: Zizotes milkweed seed request

[Mike Quinn]

Can anyone help John out?? Thanks, Mike

---

From: John Thornton [mailto:jlthorn...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 2:46 PM
To: Mike Quinn
Subject: RE: Zizotes milkweed

Thanx so much; my mailing address is

 

John Thornton

146 Highland Terrace Drive
League City, TX 77573

Phone: 281-799-3710

 

________________________________

From: John Thornton [mailto:jlthorn...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 7:39 PM
To: Mike Quinn
Subject: Zizotes milkweed


Greetings,

My name is John Thornton and I have been referred to you by trudy Belz
by way of the NPSOT Yahoo group.

Per the subject line, I am trying to locate some zizotes milkweed
(Asclepias oenotheroides), a most interesting native species. I'd like
to at least have seeds to plant some for the butterflies. I am in
League City and I have seen the plant growing as close as Waller county.
I believe it grows not so far from my area. Any help is appreciated.

Kind regards,
John

[Skoshi]

Today was fabulous! Started off with 200 monarchs in the trees down the
road,
proceeded with 60 or so monarchs per minute on the Cunningham Ranch;
and during the canoe trip of 15 miles, there was a continuous stream across
the river.
Probably saw between 500 and 700 to be conservative. Our canoes and the
monarchs were fighting a stiff SE wind gusting up to 35mph. Heaviest flow
around 8:45 at the trees around the ranch house. 30 in view at any one time.

There were easily another 500-600 at the Salvadore Gonzalez country home
under massive native trees. This is the spot I call "The Cathedral."
Monarchs
drifting wall to wall in the 100s as they settle into clusters. Alan Fisher
(TP&W)
got some good footage at sunset.

It will be interesting to see what the monarchs do tomorrow if
and when the front comes through. It could blow them all out of here.
I hope there are more riding the wind in.

Carol Cullar
Maverick County, TX

__________________________________________________
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[The Aschens]

Tex Monarch Watchers,

Nothing is moving that we can see in numbers into the strong
SE wind right now. Stephanie Baker spent 3 hours at the Smith
Point Hawk Watch tower on Galveston Bay yesterday. The only
monarchs she saw were near home. I watched Lavaca Bay at the
end of the Lavaca Bay Causeway on the Point Comfort side
and drove the three mile loop to the southeast of town,
nothing until I got about three blocks from home. The front
is expected Monday morning. The coastal monarchs traditionally
don't show much until after the first strong norther and have
been as late as the last week of October. If you live near
the Texas City Dike, watch out on it just as the north wind
is calming down next week.

Thank you and take care

Harlen

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Harlen E. and Altus Aschen mailto:he...@tisd.net
Port Lavaca, Texas 77979 midcoast of TX 28.61N 96.62W
Google Map of the area: http://tinyurl.com/2blo8v
Photos of some Texas milkweeds: http://asclepias.org/

[The Aschens]

Tex Monarchers,

If you have been watching the weather forcasts you know
there is a change coming. The weather channel has been
warning us all day here of high winds up to 40 mph along
the coastal bend tomorrow. Houston just said the low in the
morning is predicted to be 74 for us, 64 by noon, and 54 by
evening. Winds between NW and N Mon, Tue, and Wed, low
in the upper 40's Wed morning. This may be that front we have
all been looking for, so be on the "look out" if you haven't
been already.

[Paul Cherubini]

At sunset today winds were from the South at
Eagle Pass, Del Rio, San Angelo and Abilene,
but from the North in Midland.

So tomorrow morning the wind should be out of the
North in all these cities and Carol Cullar should
see some spectacular flights in the morning hours
around 8:00 - 11:00 am (if skies are clear).

Paul

[Skoshi]

Paul, It couldn't have been more spectacular today!

We continued with the 30 mph winds from 170

heading. It forced the  monarchs to hang up in

all those cul de sacs that you and I explored in

past years; and we found a new site up on the

bluff above the Rio Grande with at least 3000 in

a single tree. Fortunately, Alan Fisher from the

Tx. Parks & Wildlife Dept. was there and able to

film that site and one other where the monarchs

were less densely gathered, but equally numerous.

 

When Alan left Del Rio yesterday morning, there

were still few if any monarchs in Del Rio. He said

he saw two there in town.

 

It doesn't look like our supposition that the leading

edge of the central flyway could have been blown

to the far west has panned out.

 

We spent much of Friday in Dolan Creek hoping

for clusters, but they hadn't seen but a few

monarchs. The Queen migration was still

moving through there though.

 

I'm really looking forward to seeing what tomorrow

will bring.

 

Carol Cullar

[whitedove]

Yesterday in the morning, I was crossing the Greater NO Causeway between
Metairie and Mandeville, Louisiana. Heads up to Corpus, Christi and the rigs
between NO and the Texas and Mexico coastlines. I have seen them 5 miles out
from the north side of the Causeway, and all along up into MS yesterday afternoon.

These guys mostly head out against the coastal winds from what I can surmise,
starting in this area with Lake Pontchartrain.

My friends are in Corpus Christi this coming week, and I have asked them to
watch for the coastal assault to Mustang island wildlife area. I haven't
looked at the most recent winds from Laurel, MS and NO, but, the Monarchs are
loving it here. The gulf frits remain nectaring on the lantanas planted all
over the area while the wild ageratum and the goldenrod awaits the moderately
higher flying Monarchs. They love our big red oaks as overnight roosts along
the journey.

Also, I had a long conversation today with Ba Rea, now in West Virginia, who
says the Monarchs are very late there this year. So, Coastal areas are
definitely going to see action this coming week :-)

Best regards,

Carole Jordan
Laurel, MS

On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:39:39 -0700, Paul Cherubini wrote

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[Paul Cherubini]

Carol wrote:

> we found a new site up on the bluff above the
> Rio Grande with at least 3000 in a single tree.

Wow! Is this a site you never checked before because
you thought the tree cover was too sparse? Or is it
an out-of-town site?

> When Alan left Del Rio yesterday morning, there
> were still few if any monarchs in Del Rio. He said
> he saw two there in town.
>
> It doesn't look like our supposition that the leading
> edge of the central flyway could have been blown
> to the far west has panned out.

Or maybe they were clustered up by the thousands
in the many pecan groves on the south side of Del Rio.

Here are three areas (orange circles) I've seen them
clustered by the high 100's or low 1000's in Del Rio
in year's past:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/delrio.jpg

Carol, did you, Alan or Mary Kennedy check any traditionally
good cluster groves in Del Rio this year?

Paul Cherubini

[Skoshi]

Carol wrote:> we found a new site up on the bluff above the Rio Grande with at least 3000 in a single tree. Paul wrote:<Wow! Is this a site you never checked before because you thought the tree cover was too sparse? Or is it an out-of-town site?

This was a yard to the NE of the Ayeres' place and the trees were much denser, creating a better windbreak. I'd not checked it in past years because the trees were behind a high privacy wall and this year the owners found us and invited us in.

> It doesn't look like our supposition that the leading edge of the central flyway could have been blown to the far west has panned out.Paul said:> Or maybe they were clustered up by the thousands in the many pecan groves on the south side of Del Rio.

 

Mary Kennedy, Olga DeLeon, and I spent about 4 hours combing through all of the pecans along San Felipe Creek in South Del Rio on Thursday afternoon, the same time the monarchs were arriving in Eagle Pass. Then the TPW videographer and I met in Del Rio on Friday and I checked there again then. He spent the night in Del Rio; then Saturday morning he checked there again on the way to Eagle Pass to film down here and saw 2 monarchs on the way out of Del Rio.

 

Del Rio had a light scattering in the trees on the hills on the north edge of town the morning of the 18th, according to friends of Mary Kennedy (It's her hometown.) We checked up there as well but they were all blown away by the afternoon when we arrived.

 

Carol Cullar

[Paul Cherubini]

Carol, are the monarchs in Eagle Pass today flying
at low to medium heights since the wind is so
strong (25-35 MPH) out of the NNW?

Or are the monarchs flying so high you need to
use binoculars to see most of them?

Or is the wind so strong many of the migrants
are preferring to cluster in trees out of the wind
instead of migrating?

During the last 10-60 minutes before sunset today, may I
suggest you check a wide range of potential evening
cluster sites including hilltop groves of pecan and oak trees.
During N winds when temps are below about 75 degrees
near sunset it is routine to see fall migrants
selecting cluster trees on or near hilltops and ridgetops.

Also, during N winds, sometimes the fall migrants
don't drop out of migration until the last 20 minutes
before sunset and then the clusters form abruptly
and spectacularly. So in a matter of minutes the
situation can change from seeing few migrants to
suddenly seeing thousands.

Paul

[The Aschens]

Carole,

Thank you for that info to the east of us. I never can estimate
the timing from that direction, but it may take them 3 to 5 days
to work their way here, just 3 now. We had a horrible wind with
the front today, steady 40 mph with gusts to 50 just before noon.
I went across the causeway at 3:30 and had to fight to stay in
my lane. The wind is supposed to stay 30 to 35 most of the
night. It was clearing at 3:30 and should be clear with a 20 mph
NW wind tomorrow and in the 70's. When Altus gets back we'll try
another trip to the other side of the bay to see if anything made
it to the false willow and other brush near the beginning of the
peninsula about 5:30, wind might calm a bit near sundown. Then to
see if anything flies tomorrow.

Harlen

whitedove writes:

>
> Yesterday in the morning, I was crossing the Greater NO Causeway between
> Metairie and Mandeville, Louisiana. Heads up to Corpus, Christi and the rigs
> between NO and the Texas and Mexico coastlines. I have seen them 5 miles out
> from the north side of the Causeway, and all along up into MS yesterday afternoon.
>
> These guys mostly head out against the coastal winds from what I can surmise,
> starting in this area with Lake Pontchartrain.
>>

> Best regards,
>
> Carole Jordan
> Laurel, MS
>
>
>

[Skoshi]

Paul,

 

I just spent 15 minutes in the back yard with the binocs. 1 monarch, 1 queen. Both fighting through the sparse branches of the mesquite thicket. I guess it cuts the wind.

 

Paul Cherubini said: are the monarchs in Eagle Pass today flying at low to medium heights since the wind is so strong (25-35 MPH) out of the NNW?

 

The wind hit at 3:05 a.m. At first daylight there wasn't a single monarch to be seen anywhere. The only few I saw were alee of a big tree and not venturing out.

 >Or are the monarchs flying so high you need to use binoculars to see most of them?

 

I've not gotten out binoculars. I don't think the winds aloft are any better. I'll check at dusk to see if we get a fall out. At least the sun has come out and it's warming some.

>Or is the wind so strong many of the migrants are preferring to cluster in trees out of the wind instead of migrating?

 

I wonder where the ones here yesterday are congregating or are they already blown to Monterrey?

>During the last 10-60 minutes before sunset today, may I suggest you check a wide range of potential evening cluster sites including hilltop groves of pecan and oak trees.

 

Good idea. I'll certainly check things out. Thanks for reminding me.

[The Aschens]

Tex Monarchers,

Mike may report this:
65 Monarchs passed by a stationary viewing point in 15 minutes ...
Center Point (Between Comfort and Kerrville) from Tx-Butterfly List

At 1:30 I found about 30 monarchs on the east side of the
north end of the Lavaca Bay Causeway peninsula. They were
along the tall grass and salt cedar trying to not get into the
25 mph west wind. It appeared as is a few were dropping down
out of the sky, but I may have stirred them up as I went slowly
along. Will make another try in a bit. That is the first
significant number in two weeks. If TxDOT hadn't cut most of
the brush I wonder what it would have been like out on the
peninsula ... no way to compare to last year!

Harlen

[Paul Cherubini]

1000's of monarchs somehow reached Galeana, Nuevo Leon
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/galeana.jpg
by October 20, according to the following Journey North report:
http://www.learner.org/cgi-bin/jnorth/jn-query-byday?1193246526

Rough translation:

"They arrived some as many monarchs October 18.
The photos that enclosed are of the [Oct] 20 in the
morning; there were thousands. They sit on the pines,
walnuts, thunders (Ligustrum), zacatones Cortaderia).
The [Oct.] 21 in the morning there was not, Monday [Oct. 22]
if but I left at 7 o'clock am and I did not see as many. Last
night with the wind did not they arrive. To see as many the
next arrive you gave.

Now to try and back track:

Oct. 12-14 1000's roosting from Eden to west of San Angelo,
and 100's in Sonora, 10's Ozona and none in Eagle Pass

Oct. 15 north wind arrives in San Angelo

Oct. 17: 1000's in Sonora & Uvalde

Oct. 18: Gone from Sonora, 100's in Eagle Pass

Oct. 18-21: Southerly winds in Eagle Pass

Oct. 21: 1000's in Eagle Pass

Oct. 22: Only a trickle left in Eagle Pass

The distance between Eagle Pass and Galeana, NL
is about 250 miles. How is it conceivable the monarchs
could have traveled 250 miles in two days (Oct. 18-20)
when there were strong winds from the South?

Paul Cherubini

[Skoshi]

Paul, I had a single individual call on the 18th and say "They're here!" I don't know how many he had in his trees. When I was able to get there Saturday morning to look at the clusters, there were several hundreds. Our monarchs go out of Eagle Pass at a 210 to 220 heading.

 

I would think that the monarchs mentioned here had to have come from somewhere other than Eagle Pass. I've been wondering where the 1000s in San Angelo went. Where did they enter Mexico? Where did they "turn" and perhaps swing back to the SE to reach Galeana?

 

I've not heard any reports from Saltillo or Monterrey yet, either.

 

Could these possibly been running along the Gulf or been resident along the coast?

 

Carol Cullar

Paul Cherubini <mon...@saber.net> wrohttp://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/galeana.jpg
te:

1000's of monarchs somehow reached Galeana, Nuevo Leon

[Paul Cherubini]

Carol wrote:

> I would think that the monarchs mentioned here had to have come from
> somewhere other than Eagle Pass. I've been wondering where the 1000s
> in San Angelo went. Where did they enter Mexico? Where did they "turn"
> and perhaps swing back to the SE to reach Galeana?

Yes and there aren't hardly any spotters monitoring the rural
areas to the west of San Angelo, Ozona and Del Rio.

Since the monarch caterpillar population was high
in the Rocky Mountains in mid-August (and presumably
also in the adjacent high elevation western Great Plains)
perhaps the hatching adult butterflies flew southeast in
early-mid-September and entered Mexico in the Big
Bend Park area in late September / early October and
then followed the mountain ranges to the southeast,
ending up in Galeana, Nuevo Leon by Oct. 18-20

Kind of like this:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/galeanaa.jpg

> Could these possibly been running along the Gulf or
> been resident along the coast?

I don't believe anyone saw large numbers of
fall migrant monarchs in the coastal areas
of extreme southern Texas until the 3rd week
of October this year - too late to be the source of the
Galena mountain monarchs (Galena is about 5,300 feet
elevation)

In 1993 when I followed the migration from Eagle Pass to
El Rosario in the car, on Oct. 20 there was a strong
flow of migrants both in Saltillo and Monterrey and
on Oct. 21 there was a super strong flow 5-10 miles WEST of
Linares. The southern edge of the "front" had reached
Ciudad Victoria by the evening of Oct. 21. On the Oct. 22
I kept driving south and got ahead of the front - nothing
seen flying in Ciudad Del Maiz or Rio Verde. On Oct. 23
I drove even further south to Queretaro and ultimately to Chincua
and El Rosario and saw nothing the whole way because
I was well ahead of the front.

Paul

[Paul Cherubini]

I saw the interesting post below on dplex-l, but I can't tell
what date the 1000's were seen in San Angelo, nor who
saw them. I'd really like to know whether or not 1000's were
actually seen so late (Oct.20) in San Angelo. Mike, can
you clarify? Thanks.

Paul Cherubini
========================================
From: Dale Bulla
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 8:11 AM
To: Mike Quinn; Dan Hardy
Subject: Fwd: Monarchs in San Angelo

FYI. The pictures are from my cousin's back yard
in San Angelo. She said they had thousands! Wish
we could have jumped into the car and headed
out there! Ah, maybe next year....

Pat
==========================================