phones in the fridge

[Rob Hommel]

On the political side heres one for everybody. What actions should she have taken. I recommend her detaining the person and calling the police.
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/08/25/18529574.php

rhommel

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[Markella Liberto]

It is truly amazing to what extent some people will go, to find some kind of information to use against political parties. Yes, she should have detained the person and contacted authorities. Not only would this assure criminal charges against the person found in her room, but it would also prove an embarrassment to the parties in which he was working for. I thought politics were to be about issues concerning betterment of the public, not about the personal lives of candidates. --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Rob Hommel <rho...@mad.scientist.com> wrote:

[Wayne Blackburn]

Brings back memories of Watergate!

The Antilog guy!

[Rob Hommel]

Mark:

It would seem that in the world of politics there is no sense of history or common sense. In the not too distant past a President of these United States was brought down thanks in part to a similar situation. The bugging of the offices of the rival political party in a building named Watergate. The attempted cover up brought ruination to that party and the President. Several persons went to jail as well, to this day Watergate haunts politics.

There seems to be a problem today with people, they seem to think that there is a difference between what is referred to as "white collar crime" and your average day to day criminals, or "blue collar crime". The disconnect seems to be something about the rumor of country club prisons.
They expect to be housed in a place where they will have access to the golf green and tennis court. After all they didn't really do anything wrong.

In business to be able to steal a list of your competitors customers is considered a coup. Now we can target their customers and tell them why our product is better. Notice I mentioned the word "steal" in the previous sentence. Is this theft, is it a crime? That is the question business edges around.

rhommel

rhommel

[Markella Liberto]

Rob,    Very ggood point; especially the mention of watergate. I guess looking at the situation from a legal stand point, it would depend on how you obtain the list of customers. In business I think unless being caught red handed such as the person in the article, it would be hard to prove "theft" of a list of customers, but being this is dealing with politics, I assume that "dirt" is wanted on the targeted party.     You are right; there is no sense of history or common sense in politics, that is what is so very disturbing and scary, especially for future generations.

[Its from Onion]

Should be a lesson to all about hotel rooms.  They are 'not' your domain.  Always tell front desk NO house keeping, keep do not disturb sign on and always leave the tv playing as to give the effect of some ones home. 

 

I have seen 'teams' swarm rooms after 'guests' have left. If you make reservations with a credit card, NEVER take the room they offer.  Always switch rooms at last minute, floors if you can.

 

Onion

[Perry Myers, CFE]

I got a call today from a respected (so far) business person who said he was shown transcripts of conversations he had on his cell phone with another person.  I won’t share the details of the reason for the alleged cell phone intercept but it was done according to my contact.  Both sides of the conversation were recorded so this was not a simple hidden recorder in the car.  My question is, any ideas on how we can prove this happened?  If this was a clone, is there a place in the Cell Provider’s records that may indicate a duplicate Cell phone ID number was linking to their system at the same time?  Any little evidence may help.

The other person’s cell phone that was involved in this recorded conversation was available to the suspected perpetrators so that they could have done anything they wanted to that phone.  But my contact always had his phone in his possession.  

Any advice of what to do to prove this through subpoena is appreciated.  


Perry Myers, CFE
President
MSI Detective Services
2406 W Fullerton Ave
Chicago, IL 60647
pe...@detectiveservices.com
WWW.DETECTIVESERVICES.COM
(773) 404-7400 x 200

[Its from Onion]

Shown by who? 

 

The conversation with the other person could have been recorded by the 'other' person.  The suspected perps could have set up 3-way calling or such as they had access to phone. 

 

The fact that your client does not know the security of the other side of his conversation, all is possible.

 

Cloning?  Mmmm.. don’t think.  You would have to look at what is at stake.  (i.e. divorce or national security)

 

Start simple.  Plenty of time to jump to conclusions later.

 

Onion

"surfing the net with a Jet Ski"

[Perry Myers, CFE]

Thanks Onion!  The transcript was shown to my contact by an adversarial person in the matter of a divorce.  The conversation was with my contact and his son.  His son would not willingly participate with the adversary.  But the son’s wife who he was living with at that time did have access to her husband’s cell phone while he slept and showered.  So if 3 way calling was implemented while he was sleeping or showering, that would be a possibility.

Thanks again!

Perry Myers, CFE
President
U-Spy Enterprises, Inc.

2406 W Fullerton Ave
Chicago, IL 60647

pmy...@uspystore.com
WWW.USPYSTORE.COM
(773) 529-2779

[ed]

any cell phone call can be easily recorded through the audio output jack of the
phone: http://www.dictationwarehouse.com/CC20detail.asp

also, many of the PDA-phones like the Palm Treo, Apple iPhone, etc, can run
readily-available programs to record both sides of calls:
http://software.palminfocenter.com/product.asp?id=1962

programs exist for doing this covertly, as well. so a compromised PDA-phone
could have a recording program installed (unbeknownst to the user) and the phone
call recordings could be covertly retrieved later if the phone can be obtained
only for a few minutes.

as was previously mentioned on this list, the other party (not your client) was
probably simply recording the call.

-ed

Quoting Its from Onion <areda...@msn.com>:

> Re: [TSCM-L] {2862} Re: phones in the fridgeShown by who?

[1a...@netscape.com]

 Hello Perry and List

 

 I have had the experience of deploying my Bionic Ears made by Silver Creek, which intercepted both sides of a 2-way transmit/ receive device.

 The perp's were in my yard and communicating with there boss , 1 female and 1 male  agents.

 

 Both sides of the communications were heard clearly.

 

 Now in your case it's possible that a parabolic device was used and output to a recorder. Over time the perp's may have penetrated the other end

 that would by the called person stole his or her phone and copied the sim card.

 

 If we don't have 24hour electronic security employed then it is possible to be subject to the type of crime.

 

 Have your client check all security codes in his or her alarm panel. then swept using NLJD and don't forget the IR threat red for sure green for target

 positioning of the laser. Have your client walk his zones at night and have portable spot light and video capturing device at the ready.

 

 Regards Andre Holmes https://www.nes-ets-usa.com

 

 

--- pe...@detectiveservices.com wrote:

From: "Perry Myers, CFE" <pe...@detectiveservices.com>
To: <TSCM-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [TSCM-L] {2874} Re: phones in the fridge
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 14:01:12 -0500

I got a call today from a respected (so far) business person who said he was shown transcripts of conversations he had on his cell phone with another person.  I won’t share the details of the reason for the alleged cell phone intercept but it was done according to my contact.  Both sides of the conversation were recorded so this was not a simple hidden recorder in the car.  My question is, any ideas on how we can prove this happened?  If this was a clone, is there a place in the Cell Provider’s records that may indicate a duplicate Cell phone ID number was linking to their system at the same time?  Any little evidence may help.

The other person’s cell phone that was involved in this recorded conversation was available to the suspected perpetrators so that they could have done anything they wanted to that phone.  But my contact always had his phone in his possession.  

Any advice of what to do to prove this through subpoena is appreciated.  


Perry Myers, CFE
President
MSI Detective Services
2406 W Fullerton Ave
Chicago, IL 60647
pe...@detectiveservices.com
WWW.DETECTIVESERVICES.COM
(773) 404-7400 x 200

 

---

Netscape.  Just the Net You Need.

[Perry Myers, CFE]

Thanks Ed! I forgot to mention the conversation was between father and son
and there would no reason for either to record the call. It had to be done
covertly so I assume it had to be done through a compromise of the
telephone. We just want to try to prove that fact. We know who did it as
they have verbally admitted this when they showed the transcript.

We now need to try to get evidence if there is a way. Any ideas on how to
obtain this would be helpful.

Perry Myers, CFE
President
MSI Detective Services
2406 W Fullerton Ave
Chicago, IL 60647
pe...@detectiveservices.com
WWW.DETECTIVESERVICES.COM
(773) 404-7400 x 200

[Eric Schmiedl]

Also don't forget the possibility of compromising software installed on
the cell phone at either end-- see flexispy.com for an example.

1a...@netscape.com wrote:

> Have your client check all security codes in his or her alarm panel.
> then swept using NLJD and don't forget the IR threat red for sure green
> for target
> positioning of the laser. Have your client walk his zones at night and
> have portable spot light and video capturing device at the ready.
>
> Regards Andre Holmes https://www.nes-ets-usa.com

> <https://www.nes-ets-usa.com/>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ed]

Perry,

What was the make/model/carrier of the phone in question? Various spyware
applications exist that are specific for specific phones.

A forensic specialist who's skilled in cellphone data recovery might be helpful,
although if spyware was covertly installed then it could have been covertly
uninstalled. Still, some traces of it may exist on the phone. Obviously,
quarantining the phone (removing the battery and physically securing it)
immediately after the compromise was suspected) would have been a good idea.

-Ed

[Marc DeRodes]

--- On Wed, 9/3/08, Perry Myers, CFE <pe...@detectiveservices.com> wrote:

From: Perry Myers, CFE <pe...@detectiveservices.com> Subject: [TSCM-L] {2874} Re: phones in the fridge

To: TSCM-...@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 3, 2008, 12:01 PM

I got a call today from a respected (so far) business person who said he was shown transcripts of conversations he had on his cell phone with another person.  I won’t share the details of the reason for the alleged cell phone intercept but it was done according to my contact.  Both sides of the conversation were recorded so this was not a simple hidden recorder in the car.  My question is, any ideas on how we can prove this happened?

If you have a written transcript, that would be a good place to start. The person who delivered it could be forced to testify as to its origins, or could provide information the next link in the chain.

If this was a clone, is there a place in the Cell Provider’s records that may indicate a duplicate Cell phone ID number was linking to their system at the same time?  Any little evidence may help.

As so many others have said, recording a phone call from both sides is simple. Not only does software exist for certain phones to record both sides of a conversation, bit Radio Shack also sells a very inexpensive device that allows virtually any cell phone to be connected to a recorder.

The other person’s cell phone that was involved in this recorded conversation was available to the suspected perpetrators so that they could have done anything they wanted to that phone.  But my contact always had his phone in his possession.

Your contact isn't too bright, is he or she? To tell you the truth, I doubt that anything illegal or covert was done to this persons phone. In many states of the US, it is perfectly legal to record conversations without informing the person being recorded. The first thing I would check into is the legality of such actions in the state that you reside.

Any advice of what to do to prove this through subpoena is appreciated.

Once again, the person who delivered the transcript should be questioned as to its origins.

[Perry Myers]

Clarifying what happened is the following:

·         Son and father talked using cell phones.  3^rd party showed (did not deliver) a transcript of conversation that appeared to be an accurate portrayal of the conversation.

·         The transcript was not left and the 3^rd party will deny this in a court of law.  But since there is no physical evidence which we would need to take to court, there will be no court until we get evidence. 

·         Father and son assumed they were recorded which as far as I know is illegal in all states since the person who recorded was not a party to the conversation.

·         Not sure how bright the client is but they need evidence for any action.  3^rd party is not in country although that part we would have covered. 

·         We need help or ideas on the evidence.

·         Lastly, I learned that the original phone we believe may have been compromised is lost.  Any modifications to it are not traceable now so we either need evidence from the cell phone company records if there in fact would be any trace evidence left there or we are out of luck. 

Thanks for any help in this matter. 

 

Perry Myers, CFE

President

Myers Services, Inc. DBA

MSI Detective Services

2406 W Fullerton Ave

Chicago, IL 60647

pe...@detectiveservices.com

WWW.DETECTIVESERVICES.COM

(773) 404-7400 x 200

 

 

 

 

 

[Its from Onion]

If your going to court with this my thoughts are that it would be inadmissible.  Reason being it is hearsay, to say the least.

 

That being said, if your looking for a way TO DO this,  ya might need to pay someone that can deliver the expertise.

 

Otherwise I would think the correct technical term would be, "SOL".

 

 

IMHO

Onion 

----- Original Message -----

From: Perry Myers

[Perry Myers]

I agree!  Thanks

<BR

[Joey Ortega]

Is it a possibility that the person on the other end of the phone is in fact a willing participant in the recording of the conversation.  If there is some sort of extortion involved then the it could help explain the how the "3rd party" got the info. If its an in fedelity issue perhapps the significant other of the person on the other end bugged the phone. Not a difficult thing to do. Joey Ortega Steven Rauch PI (Investigative Services) Santa Barbara, Ca (805)637-8034 sbeyef...@yahoo.com Rauch CA PI Lic#13734 --- On Thu, 9/25/08, Perry Myers <pe...@detectiveservices.com> wrote:

[Perry Myers]

Not possible.  This is a father and son and their relationship is solid.  The event happened without their knowledge.  How it happened is the question.  Thank you for the thought. 

Perry