Radio 4 has listed a one-off programme called 'Greek Blues' which is
being broadcast on Tuesday 8 July from 1.30pm to 2pm. The programme is
supposedly about the history of Rembetika.
For those at work on Tuesday afternoon, or those outside the UK, most
Radio 4 programmes are available to hear on line for 7 days after the
programme is broadcast on this internet page:
This programme might be interesting. There was an article in the
London paper 'Evening Standard' about it today, with a picture of the
presenter, Pete Pahides, with Stelios Vamvakaris.
The BBC blurb says:
"Pete Paphides returns to Athens, the city where his parents grew up,
to chart the history of Rembetika – The Greek Blues.
Paphides, chief rock critic of The Times, grew up in a Greek chip shop
in Birmingham. His parents played him Greek blues or Rembetika – the
music they grew up with in Athens. Rembetika, played on violins, ouds
and bazoukis, accompanied by the most impassioned singing, is the
music of the lower classes in Greece and Asia Minor. It deals with
lost love, impending death, hashish, sex, prison, gambling and other
pursuits of the underworld, often played in dance rhythms.
In this one-off feature, Pete returns to Greece to seek the musical
and social roots of Rembetika and to find out why the Greek
melancholic melodies still haunt his waking hours."
you might possibly listen to my voice, too, if you tune in this
program. Of course, if I were in charge, I would avoid connecting
rebetika to blues in such a provocative way. I can only accept some
sociological parallels but that's all. Anyway, the have promised me a
cd but if they forget, i will try your link anyway, John! Thanks a
lot!
On Jul 2, 8:43 pm, John K <john.kyria...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Radio 4 has listed a one-off programme called 'Greek Blues' which is
> being broadcast on Tuesday 8 July from 1.30pm to 2pm. The programme is
> supposedly about the history of Rembetika.
> For those at work on Tuesday afternoon, or those outside the UK, most
> Radio 4 programmes are available to hear on line for 7 days after the
> programme is broadcast on this internet page:
> This programme might be interesting. There was an article in the
> London paper 'Evening Standard' about it today, with a picture of the
> presenter, Pete Pahides, with Stelios Vamvakaris.
> The BBC blurb says:
> "Pete Paphides returns to Athens, the city where his parents grew up,
> to chart the history of Rembetika – The Greek Blues.
> Paphides, chief rock critic of The Times, grew up in a Greek chip shop
> in Birmingham. His parents played him Greek blues or Rembetika – the
> music they grew up with in Athens. Rembetika, played on violins, ouds
> and bazoukis, accompanied by the most impassioned singing, is the
> music of the lower classes in Greece and Asia Minor. It deals with
> lost love, impending death, hashish, sex, prison, gambling and other
> pursuits of the underworld, often played in dance rhythms.
> In this one-off feature, Pete returns to Greece to seek the musical
> and social roots of Rembetika and to find out why the Greek
> melancholic melodies still haunt his waking hours."
> you might possibly listen to my voice, too, if you tune in this > program. Of course, if I were in charge, I would avoid connecting > rebetika to blues in such a provocative way. I can only accept some > sociological parallels but that's all. Anyway, the have promised me a > cd but if they forget, i will try your link anyway, John! Thanks a > lot!
> On Jul 2, 8:43 pm, John K <john.kyria...@btinternet.com> wrote: >> Radio 4 has listed a one-off programme called 'Greek Blues' which is >> being broadcast on Tuesday 8 July from 1.30pm to 2pm. The programme is >> supposedly about the history of Rembetika.
>> For those at work on Tuesday afternoon, or those outside the UK, most >> Radio 4 programmes are available to hear on line for 7 days after the >> programme is broadcast on this internet page:
>> This programme might be interesting. There was an article in the >> London paper 'Evening Standard' about it today, with a picture of the >> presenter, Pete Pahides, with Stelios Vamvakaris.
>> The BBC blurb says:
>> "Pete Paphides returns to Athens, the city where his parents grew up, >> to chart the history of Rembetika – The Greek Blues.
>> Paphides, chief rock critic of The Times, grew up in a Greek chip shop >> in Birmingham. His parents played him Greek blues or Rembetika – the >> music they grew up with in Athens. Rembetika, played on violins, ouds >> and bazoukis, accompanied by the most impassioned singing, is the >> music of the lower classes in Greece and Asia Minor. It deals with >> lost love, impending death, hashish, sex, prison, gambling and other >> pursuits of the underworld, often played in dance rhythms.
>> In this one-off feature, Pete returns to Greece to seek the musical >> and social roots of Rembetika and to find out why the Greek >> melancholic melodies still haunt his waking hours."
I enjoyed that, it was not bad at all. Nikos was good! He's right
about the claimed similarity with da Blooz, sociologically yes, but
musically not very similar at all.
You're both right about the Blues connection...but as someone who has
often had to try to explain Rebetika in 25 words or less to someone
who has no clue, the Blues analogy at least is a helpful introduction.
I thought it was a good programme, and provided a generalised overview
of a complex subject! A few of the clips used (Kazantsidi song, never
on a sunday) were more laika than rembetika, but let's not open that
thorny subject!
Nikos - it was good to hear your voice, and you made significant
points! I would be interested in your thoughts on the finished
programme.
I agree that rembetika does not sound much like blues or jazz, but
there is a definite sociological connection. This is evident not only
in the lives that the musicians led (often outside the mainstream of
society, with their own set of codes and rules), but also in the
subjects they wrote/sang about; and the passion, truth and spontaneous
way they performed and recorded the music.
I am struck by the many stories we read about the generosity of the
remebetes. I was amazed at Rena Stamou's story about Rita Ambatsi
taking her in to the family. Speaking of the great Rita, does anyone
know why she didn't record after the War?
For those in the UK, the programme is repeated on BBC Radio 4 on
Saturday 12 July 2008 15:30-16:00
John
On 8 Jul, 18:03, "Mr. Narghile" <squirrellyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You're both right about the Blues connection...but as someone who has
> often had to try to explain Rebetika in 25 words or less to someone
> who has no clue, the Blues analogy at least is a helpful introduction.
I also agree on the sociological connection between blues and rebetika
but this is not excuse enough for musicians to get together and play
bouzouki and guitar, each sticking to his familiar patterns and both
(audience too) thinking they are producing creative fusion.
Regarding Rita, she was forgotten after the war. But she recorded
many Demotika numbers.
On Jul 9, 12:54 am, John K <john.kyria...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> I thought it was a good programme, and provided a generalised overview
> of a complex subject! A few of the clips used (Kazantsidi song, never
> on a sunday) were more laika than rembetika, but let's not open that
> thorny subject!
> Nikos - it was good to hear your voice, and you made significant
> points! I would be interested in your thoughts on the finished
> programme.
> I agree that rembetika does not sound much like blues or jazz, but
> there is a definite sociological connection. This is evident not only
> in the lives that the musicians led (often outside the mainstream of
> society, with their own set of codes and rules), but also in the
> subjects they wrote/sang about; and the passion, truth and spontaneous
> way they performed and recorded the music.
> I am struck by the many stories we read about the generosity of the
> remebetes. I was amazed at Rena Stamou's story about Rita Ambatsi
> taking her in to the family. Speaking of the great Rita, does anyone
> know why she didn't record after the War?
> For those in the UK, the programme is repeated on BBC Radio 4 on
> Saturday 12 July 2008 15:30-16:00
> John
> On 8 Jul, 18:03, "Mr. Narghile" <squirrellyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You're both right about the Blues connection...but as someone who has
> > often had to try to explain Rebetika in 25 words or less to someone
> > who has no clue, the Blues analogy at least is a helpful introduction.
Well, I listened to the show this morning and taped it and am listening again for some clarification. Anyway, it was quite interesting. It was great hearing you Niko. *smile* It's nice to finally put a voice to a friend. You mentioned that the music of the refugees was not rebetika yet and I totally agree with you. But you also said it fused with the "local urban music of the low level people of Greece". I'm really curious what that music sounded like. Many of us are only used to stuff starting from the 30's and later, and while I think it's safe to say most of us know what the Smyrna sound is, not all of us know the early Piraeus stuff. Also, that story about Crete and the lyra was fascinating. I like how you set the record straight when it came to the manges. Even Dalaras did that correctly. In any case, I didn't know that he could speak English. I thought I saw recently that he didn't. Maybe, he learned after that video? I was also surprised that they started with him and not Stelios Vamvakaris. lol That was a good point made about women and manges. *smile* How true. Anyway, I know very little of the blues, but I suppose the analogy fits to some degree, though as everyone said, not in sound. What I didn't get was this. If the narrator was looking for authentic music, why didn't he go to a koutouki in Thessaloniki? From everything I've heard, that's where you'll find real rebetika, not the big touristy places in Athens. I was very interested in the imagery of the grammophone in the tekes. I was under the impression that 1. manges couldn't afford them and 2. you wouldn't want to have too many things in a teke lest the cops came. But then again, since a teke could theoretically be in the basement of someone's house, I guess it could work out. I found the interview with Rena Stamou to be really enlightening. I know that she knew some of the greats but didn't realise how much contact she had with them, even Batis! Something's telling me I'd better find her number and give her a call. *smile* Sounds like a wonderful person to interview or even to talk with. Btw, I called Gail Holst Warhaft *wink* today but she wasn't there. However, since she's not teaching for the summer, it's the perfect time to call her and I'll do so tomorrow morning. I barely know who Manos Hadjidakis is, but I found the story of the oscar funny. Why did it cause him so much trouble? Maybe, it was because of the subject of the movie? That last taximia by Stelios was beautiful, as always and I loved what he said about his father. It touched me very deeply. As a final note, I agree with that metaphor about rebetika being like a sound track to a movie that you don't really know, which explains why I'm still on this five-year-long search for a mangas. Overall, very nice little piece of work. As for fusion, I tend to agree, but since I admire a certain famous bouzouki player who mixed the blues and rebetika, I won't go into too much detail.
Later, Tiffanitsa
On 7/8/08, Nikos A. Politis <nika...@otenet.gr> wrote:
> I also agree on the sociological connection between blues and rebetika > but this is not excuse enough for musicians to get together and play > bouzouki and guitar, each sticking to his familiar patterns and both > (audience too) thinking they are producing creative fusion.
> Regarding Rita, she was forgotten after the war. But she recorded > many Demotika numbers.
> On Jul 9, 12:54 am, John K <john.kyria...@btinternet.com> wrote: >> Just heard the programme on 'Listen Again' - it should be available >> there for 7 days, and I hope the link works for those outside the >> UK?:
>> I thought it was a good programme, and provided a generalised overview >> of a complex subject! A few of the clips used (Kazantsidi song, never >> on a sunday) were more laika than rembetika, but let's not open that >> thorny subject!
>> Nikos - it was good to hear your voice, and you made significant >> points! I would be interested in your thoughts on the finished >> programme.
>> I agree that rembetika does not sound much like blues or jazz, but >> there is a definite sociological connection. This is evident not only >> in the lives that the musicians led (often outside the mainstream of >> society, with their own set of codes and rules), but also in the >> subjects they wrote/sang about; and the passion, truth and spontaneous >> way they performed and recorded the music.
>> I am struck by the many stories we read about the generosity of the >> remebetes. I was amazed at Rena Stamou's story about Rita Ambatsi >> taking her in to the family. Speaking of the great Rita, does anyone >> know why she didn't record after the War?
>> For those in the UK, the programme is repeated on BBC Radio 4 on >> Saturday 12 July 2008 15:30-16:00
>> John
>> On 8 Jul, 18:03, "Mr. Narghile" <squirrellyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > You're both right about the Blues connection...but as someone who has >> > often had to try to explain Rebetika in 25 words or less to someone >> > who has no clue, the Blues analogy at least is a helpful introduction.
The “local urban music of the low level” is what we call mangika,
koutsavakika, mourmourika etc. Typical “apo kato ap tis domates”, the
Spachanis recordings etc.
There are (few) places in Athens, too, where some sort of genuine
rebetika are played, but not in the summer. In Thessaloniki, too, the
koutoukia are closed for the summer.
You are probably confusing the recent BBC radio program with the old
BBC Dalaras video production. In the latter, towards the end, the
surrounding is a small bar with one guy on the bouzouki (sorry Dave, I
don’t know the name of the guy) and, if I remember right, a
grammophone. It was not a tekke. Of course the manges could not
afford buying a grammophone for themselves but a kaffeneion would and
did, ans so did the semi professional ‘grammophonitzides” who would
wander around with a (possibly borrowed) grammophone hanging on a belt
around their neck and a case with records to play.
It’s a good idea to talk to Rena Stamou. Here is the adress of Laura
Parfitt of the BBC, wife of Pete Paphides and in charge of the Athens
journey. laura.parf...@whitepebblemedia.co.uk
You can say that I encouraged you to get in touch with her, she
certainly has kept Mrs. Stamou’s phone number.
Well, Chadjidakis was prized with an Oscar for Never on Sunday but
this was not his only international hit. The Perez Prado latin
orchestra (well, your parents were not even thinking of having
children in the future when he was making hits) also recorded
Carnation Girl, a mambo by Ch. and I also remember Brenda Lee singing
one of his, I think “All alone am I”. I ‘m not very sure the story
with the garbage bag is true.
Take care,
Nick
On Jul 9, 2:42 am, "Tiffany D" <tiffani...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, I listened to the show this morning and taped it and am
> listening again for some clarification. Anyway, it was quite
> interesting. It was great hearing you Niko. *smile* It's nice to
> finally put a voice to a friend. You mentioned that the music of the
> refugees was not rebetika yet and I totally agree with you. But you
> also said it fused with the "local urban music of the low level people
> of Greece". I'm really curious what that music sounded like. Many of
> us are only used to stuff starting from the 30's and later, and while
> I think it's safe to say most of us know what the Smyrna sound is, not
> all of us know the early Piraeus stuff. Also, that story about Crete
> and the lyra was fascinating. I like how you set the record straight
> when it came to the manges. Even Dalaras did that correctly. In any
> case, I didn't know that he could speak English. I thought I saw
> recently that he didn't. Maybe, he learned after that video? I was
> also surprised that they started with him and not Stelios Vamvakaris.
> lol That was a good point made about women and manges. *smile* How
> true. Anyway, I know very little of the blues, but I suppose the
> analogy fits to some degree, though as everyone said, not in sound.
> What I didn't get was this. If the narrator was looking for
> authentic music, why didn't he go to a koutouki in Thessaloniki? From
> everything I've heard, that's where you'll find real rebetika, not the
> big touristy places in Athens. I was very interested in the imagery
> of the grammophone in the tekes. I was under the impression that 1.
> manges couldn't afford them and 2. you wouldn't want to have too many
> things in a teke lest the cops came. But then again, since a teke
> could theoretically be in the basement of someone's house, I guess it
> could work out. I found the interview with Rena Stamou to be really
> enlightening. I know that she knew some of the greats but didn't
> realise how much contact she had with them, even Batis! Something's
> telling me I'd better find her number and give her a call. *smile*
> Sounds like a wonderful person to interview or even to talk with.
> Btw, I called Gail Holst Warhaft *wink* today but she wasn't there.
> However, since she's not teaching for the summer, it's the perfect
> time to call her and I'll do so tomorrow morning. I barely know who
> Manos Hadjidakis is, but I found the story of the oscar funny. Why
> did it cause him so much trouble? Maybe, it was because of the
> subject of the movie? That last taximia by Stelios was beautiful, as
> always and I loved what he said about his father. It touched me very
> deeply. As a final note, I agree with that metaphor about rebetika
> being like a sound track to a movie that you don't really know, which
> explains why I'm still on this five-year-long search for a mangas.
> Overall, very nice little piece of work. As for fusion, I tend to
> agree, but since I admire a certain famous bouzouki player who mixed
> the blues and rebetika, I won't go into too much detail.
> Later,
> Tiffanitsa
> On 7/8/08, Nikos A. Politis <nika...@otenet.gr> wrote:
> > I also agree on the sociological connection between blues and rebetika
> > but this is not excuse enough for musicians to get together and play
> > bouzouki and guitar, each sticking to his familiar patterns and both
> > (audience too) thinking they are producing creative fusion.
> > Regarding Rita, she was forgotten after the war. But she recorded
> > many Demotika numbers.
> > On Jul 9, 12:54 am, John K <john.kyria...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >> Just heard the programme on 'Listen Again' - it should be available
> >> there for 7 days, and I hope the link works for those outside the
> >> UK?:
> >> I thought it was a good programme, and provided a generalised overview
> >> of a complex subject! A few of the clips used (Kazantsidi song, never
> >> on a sunday) were more laika than rembetika, but let's not open that
> >> thorny subject!
> >> Nikos - it was good to hear your voice, and you made significant
> >> points! I would be interested in your thoughts on the finished
> >> programme.
> >> I agree that rembetika does not sound much like blues or jazz, but
> >> there is a definite sociological connection. This is evident not only
> >> in the lives that the musicians led (often outside the mainstream of
> >> society, with their own set of codes and rules), but also in the
> >> subjects they wrote/sang about; and the passion, truth and spontaneous
> >> way they performed and recorded the music.
> >> I am struck by the many stories we read about the generosity of the
> >> remebetes. I was amazed at Rena Stamou's story about Rita Ambatsi
> >> taking her in to the family. Speaking of the great Rita, does anyone
> >> know why she didn't record after the War?
> >> For those in the UK, the programme is repeated on BBC Radio 4 on
> >> Saturday 12 July 2008 15:30-16:00
> >> John
> >> On 8 Jul, 18:03, "Mr. Narghile" <squirrellyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > You're both right about the Blues connection...but as someone who has
> >> > often had to try to explain Rebetika in 25 words or less to someone
> >> > who has no clue, the Blues analogy at least is a helpful introduction.
No, this one was said here, during the interview with Stelios. (sorry for spelling) "Gramophone recordings were being phrated in and the songs of the day were being played in the tekedes, the hash dens of Piraeus." I've never heard the music itself referred to as koutsavakika or mangika, just the language, so this is a new one for me. Also, who is Spachanis? It's usually pretty hard to stump me in rebetika but I only vaguely remember his name. Maybe, it's just too early for me to think properly.
Later, Tiffanitsa
On 7/9/08, Nikos A. Politis <nika...@otenet.gr> wrote:
> The "local urban music of the low level" is what we call mangika, > koutsavakika, mourmourika etc. Typical "apo kato ap tis domates", the > Spachanis recordings etc.
> There are (few) places in Athens, too, where some sort of genuine > rebetika are played, but not in the summer. In Thessaloniki, too, the > koutoukia are closed for the summer.
> You are probably confusing the recent BBC radio program with the old > BBC Dalaras video production. In the latter, towards the end, the > surrounding is a small bar with one guy on the bouzouki (sorry Dave, I > don't know the name of the guy) and, if I remember right, a > grammophone. It was not a tekke. Of course the manges could not > afford buying a grammophone for themselves but a kaffeneion would and > did, ans so did the semi professional 'grammophonitzides" who would > wander around with a (possibly borrowed) grammophone hanging on a belt > around their neck and a case with records to play.
> It's a good idea to talk to Rena Stamou. Here is the adress of Laura > Parfitt of the BBC, wife of Pete Paphides and in charge of the Athens > journey. laura.parf...@whitepebblemedia.co.uk
> You can say that I encouraged you to get in touch with her, she > certainly has kept Mrs. Stamou's phone number.
> Well, Chadjidakis was prized with an Oscar for Never on Sunday but > this was not his only international hit. The Perez Prado latin > orchestra (well, your parents were not even thinking of having > children in the future when he was making hits) also recorded > Carnation Girl, a mambo by Ch. and I also remember Brenda Lee singing > one of his, I think "All alone am I". I 'm not very sure the story > with the garbage bag is true.
> Take care,
> Nick
> On Jul 9, 2:42 am, "Tiffany D" <tiffani...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Well, I listened to the show this morning and taped it and am >> listening again for some clarification. Anyway, it was quite >> interesting. It was great hearing you Niko. *smile* It's nice to >> finally put a voice to a friend. You mentioned that the music of the >> refugees was not rebetika yet and I totally agree with you. But you >> also said it fused with the "local urban music of the low level people >> of Greece". I'm really curious what that music sounded like. Many of >> us are only used to stuff starting from the 30's and later, and while >> I think it's safe to say most of us know what the Smyrna sound is, not >> all of us know the early Piraeus stuff. Also, that story about Crete >> and the lyra was fascinating. I like how you set the record straight >> when it came to the manges. Even Dalaras did that correctly. In any >> case, I didn't know that he could speak English. I thought I saw >> recently that he didn't. Maybe, he learned after that video? I was >> also surprised that they started with him and not Stelios Vamvakaris. >> lol That was a good point made about women and manges. *smile* How >> true. Anyway, I know very little of the blues, but I suppose the >> analogy fits to some degree, though as everyone said, not in sound. >> What I didn't get was this. If the narrator was looking for >> aut
