Geia sou Kavoura, paraponiari...
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elkibra
May 13, 2008, 6:58:02 AM5/13/08
to Rebetika
Hi Nikos,
I would not believe there is any important reason hiding behind
Kavouras nickname. He says it to himself. Paraponiaris is a word we
give, in certain cases, to people we like. It is a tender word
creating positive feelings. Kavouras was a beloved guy. The fact that
he calls himself like that can be seen both as a suitable "movement"
towards people who would buy the record, but even as a sign showing
the milde behaviour and the psychological security men (and manges) of
that time had towards themselves and the others.This is a very
sensible side of rebetiko which never mentions and interests me a lot
as one can see in my blogs.
elkibra
I would not believe there is any important reason hiding behind
Kavouras nickname. He says it to himself. Paraponiaris is a word we
give, in certain cases, to people we like. It is a tender word
creating positive feelings. Kavouras was a beloved guy. The fact that
he calls himself like that can be seen both as a suitable "movement"
towards people who would buy the record, but even as a sign showing
the milde behaviour and the psychological security men (and manges) of
that time had towards themselves and the others.This is a very
sensible side of rebetiko which never mentions and interests me a lot
as one can see in my blogs.
elkibra
Mr. Narghile
May 13, 2008, 1:57:28 PM5/13/08
to Rebetika
Hi Elkibra,
do you have any other info on Kavouras? I have a couple handfuls of
records he made with Perisiteris, but did he record in other settings?
What social class was he from?
I'd be curious to know if he was performing live during the 30's and
if so, with who? There's very little writing (in English, at least) on
the subject of who was performing with who, and where.
I'd love to more about that!
thanks,
Dave
do you have any other info on Kavouras? I have a couple handfuls of
records he made with Perisiteris, but did he record in other settings?
What social class was he from?
I'd be curious to know if he was performing live during the 30's and
if so, with who? There's very little writing (in English, at least) on
the subject of who was performing with who, and where.
I'd love to more about that!
thanks,
Dave
tambouras
May 13, 2008, 4:47:49 PM5/13/08
to Rebetika
Hi there - coudn't resist taking this opportunity to share a sound
bite of my past - see the files section for a latter day version of
this fantastic song.
Hope you don't mind!
T
bite of my past - see the files section for a latter day version of
this fantastic song.
Hope you don't mind!
T
Nikos A. Politis
May 13, 2008, 5:12:18 PM5/13/08
to Rebetika
Dave, there is some information in greek bibliography about Kavouras,
but not a book on him specifically.
He came from a musical family, low end Asia Minor immigrants into
Piraeus via (then Italian) Castellorizo island, his father was
playing the violin and himself, playing violin and very good sandouri
was helping him. Later he worked with many ensembles of the smyrnaika
genre, Stellakis Perpiniadis singing. With much difficulty Stellakis
and Papazoglou pursuaded him to sing. Of course, his most favourite
composer as a singer was Kostas Skarvelis.
but not a book on him specifically.
He came from a musical family, low end Asia Minor immigrants into
Piraeus via (then Italian) Castellorizo island, his father was
playing the violin and himself, playing violin and very good sandouri
was helping him. Later he worked with many ensembles of the smyrnaika
genre, Stellakis Perpiniadis singing. With much difficulty Stellakis
and Papazoglou pursuaded him to sing. Of course, his most favourite
composer as a singer was Kostas Skarvelis.
Mr. Narghile
May 13, 2008, 6:03:16 PM5/13/08
to Rebetika
Thanks Nikos,
Any thoughts on the live performances of the 30's? I'm curious to know
if any info exists on who was playing were...
Tambouras, sounds good!
dave
Any thoughts on the live performances of the 30's? I'm curious to know
if any info exists on who was playing were...
Tambouras, sounds good!
dave
Nikos A. Politis
May 14, 2008, 7:26:05 AM5/14/08
to Rebetika
Information is scattered in many places. The general situation is
that everybody played everywhere, frequently changing places, with
very few exceptions of people who only recorded, without playing live
music in parallel or vice versa. Recently I was looking into
Kounadhis and Schorelis, where some information is given. If I
remember well, Rosa also gives some information in the book
Chadjidoulis wrote about her. The big trouble is that all this
information has started being collected during the period of the
second revival (late 70s and 80s) and it is often not reliable or
poor, since it comes mainly from remaining relatives, descendants or
friends, since the main actors had mostly passed away by then.
that everybody played everywhere, frequently changing places, with
very few exceptions of people who only recorded, without playing live
music in parallel or vice versa. Recently I was looking into
Kounadhis and Schorelis, where some information is given. If I
remember well, Rosa also gives some information in the book
Chadjidoulis wrote about her. The big trouble is that all this
information has started being collected during the period of the
second revival (late 70s and 80s) and it is often not reliable or
poor, since it comes mainly from remaining relatives, descendants or
friends, since the main actors had mostly passed away by then.
Kostas Ladopoulos
May 13, 2008, 4:16:51 PM5/13/08
to rebe...@googlegroups.com
Hi Dave,
Give me some time before I send the info you need...
elkibra
> Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 10:57:28 -0700
> Subject: Re: Geia sou Kavoura, paraponiari...
> From: squirre...@gmail.com
> To: Rebe...@googlegroups.com
Give me some time before I send the info you need...
elkibra
> Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 10:57:28 -0700
> Subject: Re: Geia sou Kavoura, paraponiari...
> From: squirre...@gmail.com
> To: Rebe...@googlegroups.com
Mr. Narghile
May 14, 2008, 11:24:05 AM5/14/08
to Rebetika
I always have wondered if these guys who were "higher class" musicians
(for lack of a better phrase), like Peristeris, Smesis, Skarvelis,
Roukounas, etc., could be found playing with, or at the same venues as
Markos, Batis, etc.
It must be known, at least, what the main venues in piraeus and
athens throughout the 1930's?
dave
(for lack of a better phrase), like Peristeris, Smesis, Skarvelis,
Roukounas, etc., could be found playing with, or at the same venues as
Markos, Batis, etc.
It must be known, at least, what the main venues in piraeus and
athens throughout the 1930's?
dave
Nikos A. Politis
May 14, 2008, 4:19:46 PM5/14/08
to Rebetika
Oh yes, they have! Most well known example is the “Anastasis” of
Piraeus, where the Smyrnaiki Compania with Roukounas, I think, has
given its place to the Markos’ Tetras (first appearance as a group) in
the summer of 1934. Later, in Votanikos, Markos was sitting on the
same palko with either Semsis or Ogdondakis, I don’t remember.
Piraeus, where the Smyrnaiki Compania with Roukounas, I think, has
given its place to the Markos’ Tetras (first appearance as a group) in
the summer of 1934. Later, in Votanikos, Markos was sitting on the
same palko with either Semsis or Ogdondakis, I don’t remember.
Mr. Narghile
May 14, 2008, 5:04:07 PM5/14/08
to Rebetika
wow, who else was in Smyrnaiki Compania with Roukounas?
Were there any other well-known bands aside from them and the Markos
Compania?
What kind of place was Anastasis?
thanks for the info!
dave
Were there any other well-known bands aside from them and the Markos
Compania?
What kind of place was Anastasis?
thanks for the info!
dave
Nikos A. Politis
May 15, 2008, 3:57:29 AM5/15/08
to Rebetika
Dave, too many questions at once! The only solution is -learn Greek
and find the time to search. I have not all the (cross - checked)
answers in my mind, altough I have some time read about all of which
you are asking. As I said, it will be a very time consuming and
difficult task to write something about this interesting subject since
too little evidence exists from first hand witnesses...
Anastasis, also known as "i mandra tou Sarandopoulou" was an open air
tavern in the outskirts of old Piraeus (off Drapetsona), where mostly
refugees and low life persons were coming.
and find the time to search. I have not all the (cross - checked)
answers in my mind, altough I have some time read about all of which
you are asking. As I said, it will be a very time consuming and
difficult task to write something about this interesting subject since
too little evidence exists from first hand witnesses...
Anastasis, also known as "i mandra tou Sarandopoulou" was an open air
tavern in the outskirts of old Piraeus (off Drapetsona), where mostly
refugees and low life persons were coming.
Mr. Narghile
May 15, 2008, 1:01:19 PM5/15/08
to Rebetika
time consuming? I thought you were retired Niko!
The truth is though, is doesn;t seem to be much english writing on the
subject of live performances during the 1930's, most writing focuses
on recordings. If anyone can suggest some writing on the subject, in
greek or english, I'd love to check it out.
thanks for the info Nikos,
dave
The truth is though, is doesn;t seem to be much english writing on the
subject of live performances during the 1930's, most writing focuses
on recordings. If anyone can suggest some writing on the subject, in
greek or english, I'd love to check it out.
thanks for the info Nikos,
dave
Kostas Ladopoulos
May 14, 2008, 4:28:48 PM5/14/08
to rebe...@googlegroups.com
I totally missunderstood what wou were wondering and started explaining other things... Sorry again.
Nikos has already answered but the matter is much more complicated...
> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 08:24:05 -0700
Nikos has already answered but the matter is much more complicated...
> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 08:24:05 -0700
> Subject: Re: Geia sou Kavoura, paraponiari...
> From: squirre...@gmail.com
> To: Rebe...@googlegroups.com
>
>
Kostas Ladopoulos
May 14, 2008, 2:07:10 PM5/14/08
to rebe...@googlegroups.com
Sorry. I wrote that Giannis Dragatsis (Ogdontakis) was accompanying Nouros singing. I meant he played the violin for Nouros...
> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 08:24:05 -0700
> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 08:24:05 -0700
> Subject: Re: Geia sou Kavoura, paraponiari...
> From: squirre...@gmail.com
> To: Rebe...@googlegroups.com
>
>
Kostas Ladopoulos
May 14, 2008, 1:58:27 PM5/14/08
to rebe...@googlegroups.com
Hi Dave,
Your wanderings are very logical. Let me try to give some aspects. We talk about Mikrasiates (Skarvelis, Peristeris, Toundas) and for Elladites(living in Greece) like Semsis, Roukounas. Toundas and Peristeris originated from well established families. Skarvelis was a shoemaker. After that the recordings stopped because of the war, he went back to his former profession. He died during the German occupation because of starvation...
The question about Mikrasiates has two sides:
a. if they were warned about what was going to happen so that they would the time to arrange things...
b. if they came as hunted refugees. In this case, any possibility of having with wealth was minimal up to comical and impossible... The compensation that they got were ridiculous. So, they started from the beginning. Some of them, like Toundas and Peristeris took advantage from their education, their diversified musical knowledges, their flexibility plus their big talents, so they got high positions within the Record Companies. They exploited their position in all ways, getting provisions, putting their names on other composers songs etc. All of them, except Giannis Dragatsis Ogdontakis who was a fantastic musician and a fantastic human being. Listen to him when he's accompanying his friend Nouros and his tender violin sounds will make you understand what I mean.
Semsis comes from a poor family. He showed himself as a youngster in Smyrna bare footed but already a big violinist. Then he earned money even through his position in recordings.
As much as I know Roukounas origins are also poor, though it is very difficult to have opinions concerning the economy of people growing up in the country.
Ending, we have idealised very much Vamvakaris early problems. Nothing special for that time...
Batis, what? He was poor, he used his quick mind and went further on, like millions of other Greeks.
Don't believe so much the Greek people's tendency to magnify, exaggerate and grumbling. Be sure that Markos believed that he could ever reach Hollywood...
Be well
Kostas
> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 08:24:05 -0700
Your wanderings are very logical. Let me try to give some aspects. We talk about Mikrasiates (Skarvelis, Peristeris, Toundas) and for Elladites(living in Greece) like Semsis, Roukounas. Toundas and Peristeris originated from well established families. Skarvelis was a shoemaker. After that the recordings stopped because of the war, he went back to his former profession. He died during the German occupation because of starvation...
The question about Mikrasiates has two sides:
a. if they were warned about what was going to happen so that they would the time to arrange things...
b. if they came as hunted refugees. In this case, any possibility of having with wealth was minimal up to comical and impossible... The compensation that they got were ridiculous. So, they started from the beginning. Some of them, like Toundas and Peristeris took advantage from their education, their diversified musical knowledges, their flexibility plus their big talents, so they got high positions within the Record Companies. They exploited their position in all ways, getting provisions, putting their names on other composers songs etc. All of them, except Giannis Dragatsis Ogdontakis who was a fantastic musician and a fantastic human being. Listen to him when he's accompanying his friend Nouros and his tender violin sounds will make you understand what I mean.
Semsis comes from a poor family. He showed himself as a youngster in Smyrna bare footed but already a big violinist. Then he earned money even through his position in recordings.
As much as I know Roukounas origins are also poor, though it is very difficult to have opinions concerning the economy of people growing up in the country.
Ending, we have idealised very much Vamvakaris early problems. Nothing special for that time...
Batis, what? He was poor, he used his quick mind and went further on, like millions of other Greeks.
Don't believe so much the Greek people's tendency to magnify, exaggerate and grumbling. Be sure that Markos believed that he could ever reach Hollywood...
Be well
Kostas
> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 08:24:05 -0700
> Subject: Re: Geia sou Kavoura, paraponiari...
> From: squirre...@gmail.com
> To: Rebe...@googlegroups.com
>
>
Nikos A. Politis
May 15, 2008, 3:12:07 PM5/15/08
to Rebetika
Hi Dave,
My work list until October:
Final check of comments to appear on a CD to be published shortly by
the group ΔΗΘΕΝ.
Compilation of a contribution to a CD presentation (group ΔΗΘΕΝ)
scheduled for mid June.
Rewrite / update a paper on "Rebetiko etymology" to be presented in
Istanbul and Athens in October
Write a paper on "The bouzouki and related long neck lutes in the
eastern Mediterranean region, over the milleniums and specifically in
the 19th and 20th centuries", to be presented in Hydra on October.
Think on the possible subject of an article on musicological aspects
and proceed to compiling, so a contribution can potentially appear in
the September issue of an internet magazine.
Study of music sheets and practice on an approx. 20 titles long
repertoire list of a concert to be held in Athens and Hydra in
October, in which I will be participating as a "remote" musician.
Assuming all the above goes well, the next subject could be "practices
and peculiarities of musical bands releated with greek urban popular
music genres in Greece, from 1922 to the outbreak of WW II".
On May 14, 11:28 pm, Kostas Ladopoulos <elki...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I totally missunderstood what wou were wondering and started explaining other things... Sorry again.
> Nikos has already answered but the matter is much more complicated...> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 08:24:05 -0700> Subject: Re: Geia sou Kavoura, paraponiari...> From: squirrellyd...@gmail.com> To: Rebe...@googlegroups.com> > > I always have wondered if these guys who were "higher class" musicians> (for lack of a better phrase), like Peristeris, Smesis, Skarvelis,> Roukounas, etc., could be found playing with, or at the same venues as> Markos, Batis, etc.> > It must be known, at least, what the main venues in piraeus and> athens throughout the 1930's?> dave> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> Skapa dina egna uttryckssymboler till Messenger!www.windowslive.se/dinegensmiley
My work list until October:
Final check of comments to appear on a CD to be published shortly by
the group ΔΗΘΕΝ.
Compilation of a contribution to a CD presentation (group ΔΗΘΕΝ)
scheduled for mid June.
Rewrite / update a paper on "Rebetiko etymology" to be presented in
Istanbul and Athens in October
Write a paper on "The bouzouki and related long neck lutes in the
eastern Mediterranean region, over the milleniums and specifically in
the 19th and 20th centuries", to be presented in Hydra on October.
Think on the possible subject of an article on musicological aspects
and proceed to compiling, so a contribution can potentially appear in
the September issue of an internet magazine.
Study of music sheets and practice on an approx. 20 titles long
repertoire list of a concert to be held in Athens and Hydra in
October, in which I will be participating as a "remote" musician.
Assuming all the above goes well, the next subject could be "practices
and peculiarities of musical bands releated with greek urban popular
music genres in Greece, from 1922 to the outbreak of WW II".
On May 14, 11:28 pm, Kostas Ladopoulos <elki...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I totally missunderstood what wou were wondering and started explaining other things... Sorry again.
> Skapa dina egna uttryckssymboler till Messenger!www.windowslive.se/dinegensmiley
Mr. Narghile
May 15, 2008, 4:07:18 PM5/15/08
to Rebetika
you've got your work cut out for you! Well, drop me a note if you come
across anything related to the last item on your list.
across anything related to the last item on your list.
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