Adaptation Progress
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PerfectChaos
Dec 27, 2007, 8:35:58 PM12/27/07
to Polyphasic Sleep
Hello everyone,
I have been sleeping quadraphasically for 8 days now and bi-phasically
for about 60 days before that and I wanted to let you all know how my
adaptation is moving along. The new sleeping pattern definitely seems
to be taking hold(Maybe Im the first person in a while on this forum
who will successfully adapt??).
Currently I am sleeping 4x70 minutes. Today I began to
experience, bascially for the first time, the lucid dreams associated
with Uberman/Dymaxion. I am nearly completely convinced that Dymaxion
is possible if one simply does bi-phasic for some time; core + nap.
Nap is after I get home from work for me, 6:30pm. Then after the body
readily takes to bi-phasic move to quadra-phasic without reducing the
amt of sleep taken in per night, i.e. 4x2hr or something near 6x1.5hr
for Uberman. For 5 days, similar to what Jeff Seely did I did not
reduce sleep quantity below 6-8hrs/night and I was surprised that
symptoms of biochemical adaptation started to occur without reducing
my daily sleep intake at all!! This indicates to me that we can
probably chemically adapt to a super functional state of mind by
riding our body's ultradian rhythm and then much more easily adapt to
sleep reduction without having to go through insane sleep deprivation
where we start hallucinating and hearing things.
There is a certain very distinct quality that arises, for me,
when adaptation began to take root. The whole body, from toe to head,
would suddenly feel lighter. In fact I could be exhausted one second
from sleep deprivation, and then a few seconds later a rush would come
over me and my mind would clear, and I would feel energized and awake.
I am not quite sure what chemical causes this sensation but to a
lesser degree someone doing a long term fast(3+ days) experience
something similar when their body enters a phase where it metabolizes
carbohydrates in a more efficient way (ketosis ?).
If you want to experience what this sensation is like, in a
limited way, try this: stand in a doorway and angle your arms
downwards at 30-45 degrees and press as hard as possible with your
arms locked against the frame of the door(from inside) for 60-75
seconds without a break. When you let go your arms will feel
'weightless', with no fatigue. I have done this before and the
senation is comparable, although the sensation I am getting now stays
for hours at a time and is full bodied.
There is another major sign of adaptation developing in the past few
days. I have been getting lucid dreams. In fact this last nap I had
two semi-lucid dreams and I woke up wondering if I had overslept my
70min nap time. I found that only 25 minutes had passed.
There seems to be a correlation between the number of dreams
remembered and the amt of weightlessness felt in the body during the
next day cycle.
Another speculation I have about why this sort of sleeping is
possible is that when we do the door-frame experiment(above) you are
straining the muscles of the body until they must relax and I suspect
similarly that when you are awake 22hrs a day the muscles are worked
to their limit, in a certain sense. This would mean that they must
relax and not feel the fatigue, or at least thats one of my
speculations. As far as why relaxation is healthy for a person and
increases the evolutionary survivability of the organism, well, thats
for another essay.
Questions?!
-David
I have been sleeping quadraphasically for 8 days now and bi-phasically
for about 60 days before that and I wanted to let you all know how my
adaptation is moving along. The new sleeping pattern definitely seems
to be taking hold(Maybe Im the first person in a while on this forum
who will successfully adapt??).
Currently I am sleeping 4x70 minutes. Today I began to
experience, bascially for the first time, the lucid dreams associated
with Uberman/Dymaxion. I am nearly completely convinced that Dymaxion
is possible if one simply does bi-phasic for some time; core + nap.
Nap is after I get home from work for me, 6:30pm. Then after the body
readily takes to bi-phasic move to quadra-phasic without reducing the
amt of sleep taken in per night, i.e. 4x2hr or something near 6x1.5hr
for Uberman. For 5 days, similar to what Jeff Seely did I did not
reduce sleep quantity below 6-8hrs/night and I was surprised that
symptoms of biochemical adaptation started to occur without reducing
my daily sleep intake at all!! This indicates to me that we can
probably chemically adapt to a super functional state of mind by
riding our body's ultradian rhythm and then much more easily adapt to
sleep reduction without having to go through insane sleep deprivation
where we start hallucinating and hearing things.
There is a certain very distinct quality that arises, for me,
when adaptation began to take root. The whole body, from toe to head,
would suddenly feel lighter. In fact I could be exhausted one second
from sleep deprivation, and then a few seconds later a rush would come
over me and my mind would clear, and I would feel energized and awake.
I am not quite sure what chemical causes this sensation but to a
lesser degree someone doing a long term fast(3+ days) experience
something similar when their body enters a phase where it metabolizes
carbohydrates in a more efficient way (ketosis ?).
If you want to experience what this sensation is like, in a
limited way, try this: stand in a doorway and angle your arms
downwards at 30-45 degrees and press as hard as possible with your
arms locked against the frame of the door(from inside) for 60-75
seconds without a break. When you let go your arms will feel
'weightless', with no fatigue. I have done this before and the
senation is comparable, although the sensation I am getting now stays
for hours at a time and is full bodied.
There is another major sign of adaptation developing in the past few
days. I have been getting lucid dreams. In fact this last nap I had
two semi-lucid dreams and I woke up wondering if I had overslept my
70min nap time. I found that only 25 minutes had passed.
There seems to be a correlation between the number of dreams
remembered and the amt of weightlessness felt in the body during the
next day cycle.
Another speculation I have about why this sort of sleeping is
possible is that when we do the door-frame experiment(above) you are
straining the muscles of the body until they must relax and I suspect
similarly that when you are awake 22hrs a day the muscles are worked
to their limit, in a certain sense. This would mean that they must
relax and not feel the fatigue, or at least thats one of my
speculations. As far as why relaxation is healthy for a person and
increases the evolutionary survivability of the organism, well, thats
for another essay.
Questions?!
-David
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
foolonthehill
Dec 28, 2007, 1:46:01 AM12/28/07
to Polyphasic Sleep
PerfectChaos:
I warmly suggest that you read "Why We Nap: Evolution, Chronobiology,
and Functions of Polyphasic and Ultrashort Sleep". It's a collection
of many different studies done on subjects similar to polyphasic sleep
prior to 1992. What's nice about it is that everything is factual,
with data and references to back up every idea. I myself have ordered
it through my local library, and am becoming much more knowledgeable
on polyphasic sleep than I would have previously thought. A link to
it is here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=jeuWAAAACAAJ
I certainly don't mean to be rude or discourage you, but the common
body of knowledge pertaining to polyphasic sleep is hurt very badly by
speculations such as the ones you're making here, especially when
they're passed as fact. People may say that this is a new or
previously undiscovered field, but more research on all of this has
been done, much more than you would think. There aren't so many
questions left unanswered, really.
The only thing that I think is preventing all of this knowledge from
reaching the polyphasic community (because most of it's not there) is
the issue of accessibility. For example, "Why we Nap" is currently
out of print and would cost about 155 U.S. dollars to buy. When I
finish perusing the copy that I'm reading right now, I intend to write
an in-depth Wikipedia article on it. What's spurred me to be so
ambitious in learning all of this is the fact that polyphasic sleep,
in my opinion, is being sold off as something that it's not. I see it
being labeled as some hidden superhuman ability that needs to be
unlocked. While it truly is a notable optimization, science must
prevail.
To comment on the above post, picture this: On a monophasic sleep
schedule, you suddenly get up in the middle of the night due to an
emergency and begin running quickly. After about 5 miles of heavy
running, you're still running, in order to survive. You've noticed
that any past feeling of fatigue has left you. If you're out of
breath, you can't feel it. Why have feelings of homeostasis left
you? You can't afford to worry about them! This certainly doesn't
mean that you're now better off than before, when you were exhausted.
In fact, health-wise, you're much WORSE off. It doesn't matter
whether or not you feel "spent". There's only so much that your body
can handle, and worsening conditions is not the key to feeling better
later.
I warmly suggest that you read "Why We Nap: Evolution, Chronobiology,
and Functions of Polyphasic and Ultrashort Sleep". It's a collection
of many different studies done on subjects similar to polyphasic sleep
prior to 1992. What's nice about it is that everything is factual,
with data and references to back up every idea. I myself have ordered
it through my local library, and am becoming much more knowledgeable
on polyphasic sleep than I would have previously thought. A link to
it is here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=jeuWAAAACAAJ
I certainly don't mean to be rude or discourage you, but the common
body of knowledge pertaining to polyphasic sleep is hurt very badly by
speculations such as the ones you're making here, especially when
they're passed as fact. People may say that this is a new or
previously undiscovered field, but more research on all of this has
been done, much more than you would think. There aren't so many
questions left unanswered, really.
The only thing that I think is preventing all of this knowledge from
reaching the polyphasic community (because most of it's not there) is
the issue of accessibility. For example, "Why we Nap" is currently
out of print and would cost about 155 U.S. dollars to buy. When I
finish perusing the copy that I'm reading right now, I intend to write
an in-depth Wikipedia article on it. What's spurred me to be so
ambitious in learning all of this is the fact that polyphasic sleep,
in my opinion, is being sold off as something that it's not. I see it
being labeled as some hidden superhuman ability that needs to be
unlocked. While it truly is a notable optimization, science must
prevail.
To comment on the above post, picture this: On a monophasic sleep
schedule, you suddenly get up in the middle of the night due to an
emergency and begin running quickly. After about 5 miles of heavy
running, you're still running, in order to survive. You've noticed
that any past feeling of fatigue has left you. If you're out of
breath, you can't feel it. Why have feelings of homeostasis left
you? You can't afford to worry about them! This certainly doesn't
mean that you're now better off than before, when you were exhausted.
In fact, health-wise, you're much WORSE off. It doesn't matter
whether or not you feel "spent". There's only so much that your body
can handle, and worsening conditions is not the key to feeling better
later.
PerfectChaos
Dec 28, 2007, 2:41:23 AM12/28/07
to Polyphasic Sleep
Thank you sir, for your useful input. I have one more comment to
make which may be useful to us in this group on your current post:
> To comment on the above post, picture this: On a monophasic sleep
> schedule, you suddenly get up in the middle of the night due to an
> emergency and begin running quickly. After about 5 miles of heavy
> running, you're still running, in order to survive. You've noticed
> that any past feeling of fatigue has left you. If you're out of
> breath, you can't feel it. Why have feelings of homeostasis left
> you? You can't afford to worry about them!
Hmm, I am not sure if I understand what you are suggesting here.
It sounds like you are suggesting adrenaline is a primary chemical
in contribution to the supposed falsified sense of wakefulness present
in a successful polyphaser. If I remember correctly, in the
Claudio Stampi book testing showed that not only was a test
subject awake when on the sleep routine, but was performing
with slightly greater mental clarity than on a normal sleep pattern.
I also don't really understand your running example. I certainly
feel out of breath 5 minutes after I start a run and I have alot
of experience, since I have ran daily for 8 months until recently.
Maybe you are suggesting a mechanism something like
Hysterical Strength?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysterical_strength
This might be a good investigation lead.
This certainly doesn't
> mean that you're now better off than before, when you were exhausted.
> In fact, health-wise, you're much WORSE off. It doesn't matter
> whether or not you feel "spent". There's only so much that your body
> can handle, and worsening conditions is not the key to feeling better
> later.
I suspect that many very willpower intensive activities are
considered by the organic body to be healthful because showing
greater will, in a traditional sense of evolutionary biology would
alow greater survivability. Interestingly this is the case
with a number of other activies which normally would be eschewed
by people. Olympic sports take great willpower, however after
completing a training an olympian or athlete feels very relaxed
an at ease and the body becomes healthy and efficient.
I was a long distance runner for about 8 months and I experienced
this.
Another example is true with cold water swimming. One would expect
the body to react adversely to extremely cold water, however, in
proper proportions the shock of the water can be very healthy and
have immune system benefits.
Another example is calorie restriction. The Massachussets Institute
of Technology along with a few other institutions have shown that
enduring the reduction of calories to 1200-1500cal/day regularly
increases the overall lifespan by 10%-20% which I think is pretty
staggering.
Perhaps I am wrong but I speculate that polyphasic sleep
falls into the same category. Additionally I know that it possible
for the body to work properly and efficiently on1-2 hours of sleep
a night. I have some friends who have praticed yoga and meditation
for 40 years, and the amount of sleep needed(monophasically)
decreases drastically after that sort of body work.
One cavet, in agreement with you, is that overtraining does
cause damage. Ultramarathoners, who run 50mi-100+mi races
generally have a lifespan of 50-60yrs rather than 75yrs-80yrs.
certainly it seems to me like a complex issue!
-David
make which may be useful to us in this group on your current post:
> To comment on the above post, picture this: On a monophasic sleep
> schedule, you suddenly get up in the middle of the night due to an
> emergency and begin running quickly. After about 5 miles of heavy
> running, you're still running, in order to survive. You've noticed
> that any past feeling of fatigue has left you. If you're out of
> breath, you can't feel it. Why have feelings of homeostasis left
> you? You can't afford to worry about them!
It sounds like you are suggesting adrenaline is a primary chemical
in contribution to the supposed falsified sense of wakefulness present
in a successful polyphaser. If I remember correctly, in the
Claudio Stampi book testing showed that not only was a test
subject awake when on the sleep routine, but was performing
with slightly greater mental clarity than on a normal sleep pattern.
I also don't really understand your running example. I certainly
feel out of breath 5 minutes after I start a run and I have alot
of experience, since I have ran daily for 8 months until recently.
Maybe you are suggesting a mechanism something like
Hysterical Strength?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysterical_strength
This might be a good investigation lead.
This certainly doesn't
> mean that you're now better off than before, when you were exhausted.
> In fact, health-wise, you're much WORSE off. It doesn't matter
> whether or not you feel "spent". There's only so much that your body
> can handle, and worsening conditions is not the key to feeling better
> later.
considered by the organic body to be healthful because showing
greater will, in a traditional sense of evolutionary biology would
alow greater survivability. Interestingly this is the case
with a number of other activies which normally would be eschewed
by people. Olympic sports take great willpower, however after
completing a training an olympian or athlete feels very relaxed
an at ease and the body becomes healthy and efficient.
I was a long distance runner for about 8 months and I experienced
this.
Another example is true with cold water swimming. One would expect
the body to react adversely to extremely cold water, however, in
proper proportions the shock of the water can be very healthy and
have immune system benefits.
Another example is calorie restriction. The Massachussets Institute
of Technology along with a few other institutions have shown that
enduring the reduction of calories to 1200-1500cal/day regularly
increases the overall lifespan by 10%-20% which I think is pretty
staggering.
Perhaps I am wrong but I speculate that polyphasic sleep
falls into the same category. Additionally I know that it possible
for the body to work properly and efficiently on1-2 hours of sleep
a night. I have some friends who have praticed yoga and meditation
for 40 years, and the amount of sleep needed(monophasically)
decreases drastically after that sort of body work.
One cavet, in agreement with you, is that overtraining does
cause damage. Ultramarathoners, who run 50mi-100+mi races
generally have a lifespan of 50-60yrs rather than 75yrs-80yrs.
certainly it seems to me like a complex issue!
-David
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
foolonthehill
Dec 28, 2007, 6:37:18 PM12/28/07
to Polyphasic Sleep
To go back to your original post, what do you think about that 4x70
minutes ordeal? It sounds like it's working, but do you think that
the nap duration can be reduced without adverse effects? I myself
haven't gotten far enough with any form of polyphasic sleep to draw
any personal conclusions.
> Hmm, I am not sure if I understand what you are suggesting here.
> It sounds like you are suggesting adrenaline is a primary chemical
> in contribution to the supposed falsified sense of wakefulness present
> in a successful polyphaser. If I remember correctly, in the
> Claudio Stampi book testing showed that not only was a test
> subject awake when on the sleep routine, but was performing
> with slightly greater mental clarity than on a normal sleep pattern.
No, I didn't mean to refer to adrenaline. Natural opiates, such as
endorphins, are the key to relieving pain in stressful situations,
allowing for people to focus less on their body's condition and more
on the task at hand. You have already seen my point of view here,
that attempting to make long-term use of such things is destructive.
> I suspect that many very willpower-intensive activities are
replenishable in the first place. A cardiovascular workout may be
immediately disabling, but skeletal muscles are healed, rebuilt, and
have multitudes of sarcomeres added over a period of time subsequent
to the original workout. I agree with you on that aspect. Willpower,
though? Greater willpower is just more direct access to the body's
capabilities. The functionality that we live on from day to day is
based on what the body can reasonably maintain.
> Another example is calorie restriction. The Massachussets Institute
> of Technology along with a few other institutions have shown that
> enduring the reduction of calories to 1200-1500cal/day regularly
> increases the overall lifespan by 10%-20% which I think is pretty
> staggering. Perhaps I am wrong but I speculate that polyphasic sleep
> falls into the same category.
Sadly, I don't think that it's so simple. Which calories are the ones
being cut? Calories found in common junk food tax the body in areas
that other foods may help. Gasoline is very calorie-dense, but for
one's diet to be comprise of that and nothing else would be fatally
detrimental to that individual's health, even keeping the calorie
range in mind.
> I have some friends who have practiced yoga and meditation
than post-activity euphoria.
>If I remember correctly, in the Claudio Stampi book testing showed that
>not only was a test subject awake when on the sleep routine, but was
>performing with slightly greater mental clarity than on a normal sleep pattern.
Hmm, are you sure that you're not referring to this video, featuring
Claudio Stampi?
http://tinyurl.com/yaf6um
I am nowhere near being finished reading "Why we Nap", but it seems
that everything within it is discussed in a much too in-depth manner
to be simplified like that without a good deal of construance. I
apologize if I am wrong; I admit that I'm confused about what it is
that you mean.
You're clearly a very worthwhile individual to discuss this with, and
I look forward to your response.
minutes ordeal? It sounds like it's working, but do you think that
the nap duration can be reduced without adverse effects? I myself
haven't gotten far enough with any form of polyphasic sleep to draw
any personal conclusions.
> Hmm, I am not sure if I understand what you are suggesting here.
> It sounds like you are suggesting adrenaline is a primary chemical
> in contribution to the supposed falsified sense of wakefulness present
> in a successful polyphaser. If I remember correctly, in the
> Claudio Stampi book testing showed that not only was a test
> subject awake when on the sleep routine, but was performing
> with slightly greater mental clarity than on a normal sleep pattern.
endorphins, are the key to relieving pain in stressful situations,
allowing for people to focus less on their body's condition and more
on the task at hand. You have already seen my point of view here,
that attempting to make long-term use of such things is destructive.
> I suspect that many very willpower-intensive activities are
> considered by the organic body to be healthful because showing
> greater will, in a traditional sense of evolutionary biology would
> alow greater survivability. Interestingly this is the case
> with a number of other activies which normally would be eschewed
> by people. Olympic sports take great willpower, however after
> completing a training an olympian or athlete feels very relaxed
> an at ease and the body becomes healthy and efficient.
This is to say that the specific reserves being depleted ARE
> greater will, in a traditional sense of evolutionary biology would
> alow greater survivability. Interestingly this is the case
> with a number of other activies which normally would be eschewed
> by people. Olympic sports take great willpower, however after
> completing a training an olympian or athlete feels very relaxed
> an at ease and the body becomes healthy and efficient.
replenishable in the first place. A cardiovascular workout may be
immediately disabling, but skeletal muscles are healed, rebuilt, and
have multitudes of sarcomeres added over a period of time subsequent
to the original workout. I agree with you on that aspect. Willpower,
though? Greater willpower is just more direct access to the body's
capabilities. The functionality that we live on from day to day is
based on what the body can reasonably maintain.
> Another example is calorie restriction. The Massachussets Institute
> of Technology along with a few other institutions have shown that
> enduring the reduction of calories to 1200-1500cal/day regularly
> increases the overall lifespan by 10%-20% which I think is pretty
> staggering. Perhaps I am wrong but I speculate that polyphasic sleep
> falls into the same category.
being cut? Calories found in common junk food tax the body in areas
that other foods may help. Gasoline is very calorie-dense, but for
one's diet to be comprise of that and nothing else would be fatally
detrimental to that individual's health, even keeping the calorie
range in mind.
> I have some friends who have practiced yoga and meditation
> for 40 years, and the amount of sleep needed (monophasically)
> decreases drastically after that sort of body work.
I believe it. Yoga is an enriching activity, one that offers more
> decreases drastically after that sort of body work.
than post-activity euphoria.
>If I remember correctly, in the Claudio Stampi book testing showed that
>not only was a test subject awake when on the sleep routine, but was
>performing with slightly greater mental clarity than on a normal sleep pattern.
Claudio Stampi?
http://tinyurl.com/yaf6um
I am nowhere near being finished reading "Why we Nap", but it seems
that everything within it is discussed in a much too in-depth manner
to be simplified like that without a good deal of construance. I
apologize if I am wrong; I admit that I'm confused about what it is
that you mean.
You're clearly a very worthwhile individual to discuss this with, and
I look forward to your response.
foolonthehill
Dec 28, 2007, 10:30:35 PM12/28/07
to Polyphasic Sleep
Due to involuntary obligations, I must take a hiatus until January
8th. I mention this to counteract the idea that I may be blowing off
any reply in the meantime. Cheers!
8th. I mention this to counteract the idea that I may be blowing off
any reply in the meantime. Cheers!
PerfectChaos
Dec 28, 2007, 11:37:16 PM12/28/07
to Polyphasic Sleep
Great. Ill let you know how the rest of adaptation goes.
ttyl
-David
ttyl
-David
foolonthehill
Jan 8, 2008, 7:10:56 PM1/8/08
to Polyphasic Sleep
Back again. How's the sleep schedule? Did you miss my reply before
my brief absence notice? I'll post it again, just in case:
my brief absence notice? I'll post it again, just in case:
PerfectChaos
Jan 8, 2008, 8:35:29 PM1/8/08
to Polyphasic Sleep
>>>>
On Jan 8, 7:10 pm, foolonthehill <gotac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Back again. How's the sleep schedule? Did you miss my reply before
> my brief absence notice? I'll post it again, just in case:
>
>>>>
a bit too much alcohol and set my 3 alarms wrong, aka, not at all. It
was pretty unfortunate but looking back in retrospect something was
wrong.
Everyone else seems to have gotten major lucid dreams by week
2 or week 3. Look at Jeff Seely or ZelShark7.
I was just getting sleep deprived. The brain chemistry
wasn't shifting enough, but at first I thought it was shifting since
it seemed
like natural opiates were taking effect causing the body to feel
suddenly
light.
I'm not sure exactly how to force the brain to change modes like
it seems to do for some people but I suspect that is the critical
element.
The melatonnin production in the brain seems to need to change.
This happens in the case of the yogis I was talking about as well,
they have many more lucid dreams than the average person.
Looking back I also wonder if the weightlessness I was feeling
was simply the effect of the body detoxifying from using high
amounts of caffeine for a long period of time(up to 500mg for 2mo).
I had to drop caffeine to zero when I was on the schedule;
I wouldnt even eat chocolate. This may be the case because
even now I still feel the lightness on and off to some degree,
even though im sleeping regularly(6hr,90mins).
That attempt at the adaptation seemed much better than the first
one. There were times when I felt totally alert even when sleeping
only 4 hrs/night. When I dropped it down to 3hrs/night microsleeps
started to occur(the last few days of the experiment) but there were
still a few times when I felt totally alert.
After my first attempt at polyphasic sleep I noticed that my body
seemed to be able to nap better. After the second attempt it seems
my nap ability has again improved. I notice now that whenever I lay
down to sleep either I fall asleep in 5-10mins or not(which is rare).
I suspect that if I kept pushing, in a few more 'attempts' the
schedule would finally click. This time through I did have 1 lucid,
but I didn't recall the lucid dream until an hour after I had woken
up,
which was strange. It obviously wasn't cognitively impressive as
a lucid dream though, but I think its my first one ever.
I wonder if artifically learning to cultivate lucid dreams
before attempting polyphasic would significantly facilitate
this process.
Next time I may try Uberman, as you said it seems more
possible; although I really enjoyed the 5 1/2
hr wake blocks.
Any other questions you would like answered?
-Dave
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