Rudder tower woes

[William Ennis]

Hello,

I've been crawling around in the "man cave" under my cockpit a bit more than usual and found that one of the four legs on the (for lack of a better term) rudder tower is badly rusted. What is entailed in replacing the cage/tower? Can a single leg be replaced? Must the rudder be dropped? There's a 'glassed-in "box" from which the tower legs protrude. Can another tower be bolted to this? Surely this has happened to others and I'm wondering what people have done.

I feel sure that this issue has been answered on the list serve before, but I'm in Mexico and don't have access to the archives.

Bill Ennis
S/V Wings
P40 #78

[Jeff and Jane Woodward]

Hi Bill,

What we did on Adagio was to chip, sand, and wire brush the legs and frame of the tower.  Then we applied two or three coats of Rust Arrest.  That neutralizes the rust.  Chemically changes the iron oxide into something that resists further oxidation.

Then we reinforced the lower part of the tower where the rust had eaten away some of the meat of the angle iron.  We used bi-axial fiberglass cloth and epoxy.  We glassed up each leg about four inches and used peel ply to give it a finished look w/o any sharp spikes to draw blood down the line.  While we were at it, we glassed over the base to eliminate dips and valleys that had previously collected water, and we filled in the base of the angle iron legs with thickened epoxy so water would not collect there either.  Then we gave the whole structure several coats of paint.

Our tower was still structurally sound.  We did not have any wiggle or give. The top of the structure was pretty much as built, but the bottom of the angle iron legs were down to about half their original thickness.  And the iron was noticeably bleeding rust.

I hope this helps.  We will be in San Carlos, Marina Seca work yard November 6th.  Stop by and take a look if it helps you.

Jeff

Adagio, P-40 #109, 1986

on the hard, San Carlos, Mexico

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[Beller Family]

For the record, we did almost exactly the same fix that Jeff described on Adagio on our  P40 Journey.  The was four and half years ago and none of the corrosion has returned.  The biggest hassle is grinding and sanding all the old rust off in the confines of that tight space.  Needless to say, you need a respirator and eye protection. 

 

Jeff

S/V Journey

Back in Ventura.

Passport Owners Association http://passportyachts.org/

[Kevin]

Bill,

When I pulled my '83 P40 out of the water last November I ended up with much more extensive repairs than outlined in the other responses to your post.  The rudder cage on Casi Cielo was corroded to the point of being unrepairable.  A quick synopsis of the repair (if you want more detail let me know):

- Drop the rudder.

- Cut out the old cage, grind down the glassed in base, and remove the stuffing box.

- Install a new lower rudder bearing (built into a "high-tech" tube) into the hull.  This has a redundant lip-type seal in place of the stuffing that was evidently not replaced since 1983 (hard as nails).

- Attach a support bracket to the bottom of the cockpit sole into which an upper rudder bearing was mounted.

- Replace rudder.

There was much more that was done, but you get the idea.  Here are some links to pics that might help illustrate:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18183759/photo-1.JPG - bottom view of upper rudder bearing and support bracket

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18183759/photo-2.JPG - top view of upper rudder bearing and support bracket

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18183759/photo.JPG - bottom ridder bearing in tube that goes through the hull

The current set-up still allows access through the cockpit sole for the emergency tiller.  It was pricey, but the condition of the cage made fixing it a non-starter.

Kevin Muilman

Casi Cielo

1983 P40

[Larry Rovin]

What bearings did you use?

 

Larry Rovin

Whisper, P-40 #134

 

From: passpor...@googlegroups.com [mailto:passpor...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 7:47 PM
To: Passpor...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Passport Owners
Subject: [Passport] Re: Rudder tower woes

 

Bill,

 

When I pulled my '83 P40 out of the water last November I ended up with much more extensive repairs than outlined in the other responses to your post.  The rudder cage on Casi Cielo was corroded to the point of being unrepairable.  A quick synopsis of the repair (if you want more detail let me know):

 

- Drop the rudder.

- Cut out the old cage, grind down the glassed in base, and remove the stuffing box.

- Install a new lower rudder bearing (built into a "high-tech" tube) into the hull.  This has a redundant lip-type seal in place of the stuffing that was evidently not replaced since 1983 (hard as nails).

- Attach a support bracket to the bottom of the cockpit sole into which an upper rudder bearing was mounted.

- Replace rudder.

 

There was much more that was done, but you get the idea.  Here are some links to pics that might help illustrate:

 

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18183759/photo-1.JPG - bottom view of upper rudder bearing and support bracket

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18183759/photo-2.JPG - top view of upper rudder bearing and support bracket

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18183759/photo.JPG - bottom rudder bearing in tube that goes through the hull

 

The current set-up still allows access through the cockpit sole for the emergency tiller.  It was pricey, but the condition of the cage made fixing it a non-starter.

 

Kevin Muilman

Casi Cielo

1983 P40

On Sunday, October 14, 2012 12:58:56 PM UTC-4, william Ennis wrote:

Hello,

I've been crawling around in the "man cave" under my cockpit a bit more than usual and found that one of the four legs on the (for lack of a better term) rudder tower is badly rusted.  What is entailed in replacing the cage/tower?  Can a single leg be replaced?  Must the rudder be dropped?  There's a 'glassed-in "box" from which the tower legs protrude.  Can another tower be bolted to this? Surely this has happened to others and I'm wondering what people have done.

I feel sure that this issue has been answered on the list serve before, but I'm in Mexico and don't have access to the archives.

Bill Ennis
S/V Wings
P40 #78

--

[Kevin]

Both bearings are by Tides (www.tidesmarine.com).  The top is a URB bearing and the bottom is a rudder tube system.

Kevin

[Brian Moloney]

Several of us have replaced the old cage with the Jefa rudder bearing.

 

Brian Moloney

1984 P40, Toloa

[Richard Hurt]

Bill,

I replaced the rudder support tower on Perla last spring. I liked both the
Tides Marine and Jeffa bearings, but they would have complicated the repair
on my boat. I had a new tower fabricated by a local machine shop using
stainless plate. There was a drawing for a new tower floating around the
internet which I believe was originally provided by Wagner Stevens.
Adjusted a few of the measurements to fit my boat. Used 0.5" plate for the
top and 3/8" for the rest. The machine shop drilled and tapped the top
plate to receive a common off the shelf four bolt flange bearing. The
bearing is self aligning. The parts for the tower were lazer cut out of
plate, and the legs were bent in a press. Fabrication cost for the tower
was $650. The bearing was $50. Cut the old tower off at the base of the
legs. Left the old rectangle base in place and glassed the new tower in on
top. The rudder had to be dropped to replace the tower, which gave me a
chance to inspect the lower gudgeon and replace the lower bearing. Took a
friend and me two days to remove the old tower, prep the area, and glass in
the new structure. Tedious work and long days. I have attached a pic of
the old and new tower.

Good luck.
Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: passpor...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:passpor...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of William Ennis
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 9:59 AM
To: Passport Owners
Subject: [Passport] Rudder tower woes

[Larry Rovin]

I have the drawing for a new tower. How did you have to adjust it for your boat?

Sent from my iPhone

> <P1010703.JPG>

[Richard Hurt]

Reduced the overall height , and changed the plate thickness. I believe the
drawing called for 1/2" plate for all parts of the tower. There are so many
variations from boat to boat, that I would consider any plans for
modifications to be nominal measurements until I confirmed them on any
particular boat.

[Ian Macrae]

Larry, would you mind posting the drawing here so that it will be
available in the future? Thanks. Ian

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[Larry Rovin]

I will retrieve it from the boat and scan.

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