How do you rig your boom preventers?

[Ian Macrae]

How do you guys set your boom preventers up? I see these drawings
suggesting you run lines all the way to the bow and stuff. I tie a
bowline to a bale on the boom about 2/3rds of the way out from the
mast, run it to a snatch block about mid-ship or just a tiny bit
forward of that, back to a mooring cleat, and just hand tighten it and
cleat it down w a wrap that is easy to quickly undo under pressure. I
have to mess around when I tack, moving the line to the other side.
If I was in San Francisco Bay or Puget Sound or something and had to
tack all the time that might be a hassle, but luckily I'm not! But
I'm hoping some of you technical guys in the SF Bay will describe your
setups to compare with my lazy and hopefully not dangerous cruiser set
up....

Should the line be weaker, sort of like a fuse, so it snaps before the
boom gets bent? Does proper seamanship call for something more
elaborate? Is the 2/3rds spot about the right place to attach it to
the boom?

Ian

P40, #49, S/V Freyja

[Matt Sponer]

Hi Ian,

I broke my boom by running a line from the vane to a pad eye on the
rail. It snapped a couple seconds after the main backwinded on the way
South from San Francisco, off of one of those minor capes where the
wind is a little stronger than normal. I felt really stupid about it
until I met other, more experienced, people that also broke their boom
this way. So it's a common mistake.

After that I used a Dutchmen boom brake for a while, then got the
super aluminum dinghy that I just loved (and was incompatible with the
dutchmen), so I went to those big rubber band things (that stretches
until the boom is about at the centerline), and then when the super
dinghy was in the past I went back to a Dutchmen.

I like the Dutchmen because you don't really have to do anything when
you jibe. Just loosen the rope enough from the cockpit for the boom to
come across and then tighten it back up. In light winds it adds enough
friction that you have to push the boom across manually. And I like
that it kind of pulls the boom down and holds it down, so it minimizes
chafe when the sail is eased against the lowers-- the sail at least
isn't riding up and down. So I like the whole experience and will
probably do it again, but it does feel way over priced, for what it
is. There are other things made that look to be nearly the same idea.

The rubber band things... They were a good enough trade off given that
we couldn't have the dutchmen. But they did only last about six
months, though we were covering a lot of miles at the time. They were
more work-- we had to undo them before jibing and then go and set them
back up.

For a rigid preventer, I would be cautious of anything that attaches
closer to the mast than the mainsheet. It's just too depressing to
break a boom. My friends broke theirs about halfway to the Marquessas,
and talking to them on the radio .. they were just sad. They thought
it would take forever to finish the passage. And it makes quite a
mess, since the sail is still catching wind but there are enough ropes
inside are keeping the boom together just enough to kind of gouge the
pretty boat.

Has anyone figured out a good end boom preventer system, with the
pairs of lines that run forward? I tried to do that on Mary Frances
but the angles never seemed to work. It seemed like the preventer
would be laying across the stanchions (and bend them).

Matt.

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[Ian Macrae]

Matt, when you say you had the line attached to a "vane" when you
broke your boom, what do you mean by a vane? is it like a tang, a flat
piece of metal that sticks out like a fin? and where was it spaced
between the mast and the aft end of the boom?

My attachment point is aft of the main sheet attachment, and I try to
have it pretty snug and the angle just so, so there isn't any slack in
any direction, so the boom can't get moving even if it gets back
winded, but have never had it get back winded with any really massive
force. And I suppose the danger of a backwinding in a big blow is why
I'm asking the question. The pad eye it attaches to is not that far
forward so in addition to a forward pull, I get a fairly vertical pull
which holds the boom down, too. I'll study up on Dutchmen and rubber
bands.

What happens to booms when you get pushed over so far that the boom
drags in the water and the preventer is there preventing? Ugh.

Ian

[P. Sherwood]

I have a Walder boom brake, same idea as a Dutchman, and it has saved my
bacon a few times. One down side is that it precludes installing a
proper vang, which I have wished for a few times. Can't have it all, I
guess.

Even with the Walder I've rigged a preventer at times, from out fairly
close to the end of the boom and tied on with something like a big
rolling hitch, up forward through the bow cleat, and back to the
cockpit. The padeye for the #1 reefing line kept the preventer from
slipping forward along the boom. The quick and dirty way is just to tie
off the boom to the padeye or dock cleat amidships.

I'd think running a long preventer forward then aft would be a little
more forgiving in that the line would stretch more and give you a little
more time to deal with an unwanted gybe. I was startled to see one time
how much curve I unintentionally induced in the boom when setting up the
quick-and-dirty preventer, and I can see how a sudden moderately strong
backwind could snap it before you had a chance to react.

Phil
s/v Cynosure
Bocas del Toro

[louis raphael]

I have two lines, one on each side of the boom, tied to a bail at the
aft end of the boom.
Each line has a place to attach a hook on the forward end.
When not deployed, they are held in place by a bungee cord around the
mast under all the mast rigging.
To deploy, I have two very long lines with a hook on one end, one for
each side of the boat.
These lines are hooked to the boom lines (after removing the bungee),
run forward to a snatch block near the bow,
then run all the way back to a small winch in the cockpit. The
preventers can each be controlled from the cockpit
and released quickly if the boom is buried.

My previous preventer designed by Thom Wagner's staff came through a
hole in the bottom of the boom, amid-boom.
This line ran internally forward in the boom, then back to a winch
forward in the cockpit. The end of the line which
protruded from the hole in the boom had a snap shackle, so the line
could be pulled out of the boom and attached
to any position desired on my holy (as Passport calls it) rail. I
prefer a preventer that goes to the bow from the end
of the boom, based a my feeling about the forces on each system.

By the way, I changed preventers when I went from a traditional boom to
a roller boom furling main.

Louis Raphael
Buttermilk

[Matt Sponer]

Hi Ian,

Sorry, I wrote Vane but meant Vang, for boom vang.

Yes, the preventer that broke the boom was attached to the tang on the
bottom of the boom that was made for the boom vang. This is only about
a third of the way back from the mast, and really gives the sail too
much leverage to snap the boom if it is backwinded. I think moving the
vang to the rail is really called a "kicker strap", and not a
preventer. So I was using the kicking strap as a preventer, which is a
mistake.

Oh, one more detail-- I found that attaching the preventer to a tang
makes the boom want to twist. So after a lot of time at sea it puts a
lot of wear on the little pivot pin in the gooseneck. Better to attach
the preventer with a bale or rope (we started with a constrictor knot,
but then made a turks head when we were bored at sea), so that the
boom does not want to twist when the preventer pulls on it.

I prefer systems that let the boom move slowly to ones that are rigid.
It just seems like there are then less loads on everything if you
backwind the main. And you can use them to slow down a jibe. I never
dragged the boom in the water, it seems like you've have to be heeled
quite far over on a Passport for the boom to touch the water. The
lower shrouds keep the boom from going as far out as on a racing boat.

I know this is obvious, but a quick list of what I feel the advantages
of a preventer are:
- Less chafe when running, since the sail can't move up and down
against the shrouds
- Less noise in rolling seas (the boom doesn't slam and etc)
- More powerful sail shape on a dead run (for preventers that pull
down as well as prevent)
- Less wear on the gooseneck pivot pins
- Much less chance of being creamed by the boom

And for the Dutchmen type systems:
- Easy controlled jibes
- Easy control of the 'vang' from the cockpit (by tightening the control line)

I've heard that people use "fuse" lines with their prevents, but it
seems really difficult to me to figure that out, exactly. Maybe it
would be cool, if you do have a fuse line, to have the fuse tied
between two loops in a longer preventer, so that even if the fuse
blows the boom goes to a midship or close hauled position, and does
not slam all the way across on the other jibe. To possibly save the
gooseneck or someone standing in the kill zone.

[Bill Schmidt]

Ian:
Your setup is why I have my setup, though I am aware of only 1 other
Passport 40 who uses it (Tuckeroo). With your setup I snapped 2 booms, one
twice before redesigning the boom and having it custom built (LeFiell
Spars).
My setup on Wind Witch: Internally on (in) the boom there are welded
plates. Furthest aft is a big plate backing up a tang for the solid boom
vang. Approximately 1/3 of the way forward of this plate is another internal
plate backing up 2 eye plates, one on each side of the boom.
The preventer runs, on each side, from a snap shackle attached to a bow
shackle on the boom vang tang. The line runs from there to the plate on the
beam where I have a large double block. It runs through the block, then up
to a single block attached the eye plate on the boom. It runs through the
block, then back down to the double block, through the double block and then
aft to the turning block at the side of the cockpit combing.
As you will see, this gives me not only a 3:1 purchase on the preventer,
but also distributes the shock load on the boom from a jibe, accidental or
not, over 2 points on the boom, each backed up by long broad internal
plates.
I jibe when I damn well feel like jibing and I let the preventer out
when I damn well get around to it w/o worrying about snapping the boom (yet
again). Yes, it is a lot more line and yes, it is ponderous. But I have
sailed up and down the West US Coast and in/out of SF Bay a lot w/o any big
surprises. I have often thought that the line (9/16" Dacron) should be
nylon, but never got around to changing it.
Billy Manana

[Ian Macrae]

Billy, the idea of two points is a really good one, and of course
having those blocks in there means you don't have to do what I have to
do, which is tug and pull and tweak and then wait for a wave to hit
the boat just right so more slack shows up then tug and pull again to
get the preventer tight enough. I like it, and like the welded
plates, too. Sounds like a really nice bullet proof setup. I think
I'll try to double up my connection points and look for some blocks.
Yeah, some nice stretchy nylon line might be better but what the
heck. it is hard to be perfect.

Did you snap the booms with the attachment point way out past the main
sheet attachment? Can you describe what happened to help me learn and
understand or are some things better kept secret? :)

I asked about Passports getting their booms shoved into the water and
damaged. Have any of you guys been knocked down hard in a Passport or
are they so stiff that knock downs don't happen that frequently to
them? Masts in the water? Or just way way over on your side?


Ian

[Michael Moradzadeh]

I've used the Dutchman setup, which is very good till it gets all crusty, and I've used the "line from around the mainsheet on the boom to midships" method, which also works well.  The setup on Wind Witch works very well too, making for smooth and trouble-free gybes.

I think that whatever system you go with, you really should use line that is light enough so that it, rather than the boom, will break if you get an acccidental gybe with some force behind it (preventer was partly slack), or you put the boom in the water (rarer on a Passport that many other boats, but I have done it).  The farther aft on the boom you make the connection, the less likely you'll get a broken boom.  It's generally accepted that boom-tip to bow provides the best security in that regard, but I think for the way most of sail our Passports 3/4 back on the boom to a midship rail point (Padeye or Cleat) works just fine and serves as sort of a partial vang.

The friction-type preventers, "boom brakes" actually, offer great convenience.  My Dutchman saved the life of an idiot crewman who simply insisted on sitting in the cabin hatch.  The single-casting Wichard look interesting.

Michael Moradzadeh

Cayenne, 1984 P40 #52

[rhp...@verizon.net]

Anthem is rigged with the Wichard Boom Brake. It works great. We store the brake on the boom, attached to a tensioning line led to the cockpit. To use, we install a custom sized friction line attached beam to beam. This config allows us to tame jibes quite nicely.

Bob Peahl
Anthem P40/70

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

---

From: Michael Moradzadeh <cayen...@gmail.com>

Sender: passpor...@googlegroups.com

Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 06:15:37 -0800

To: Ian Macrae<versin...@gmail.com>

Cc: Passport Owners<Passpor...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [Passport] Re: How do you rig your boom preventers?

--

[d.bri...@verizon.net]

We've been using a Wichard Boom Brake for the past three years aboard Good Move (P-40 #85).  Works great!

From Dan Brinkman

-----Original message-----

[Bill Schmidt]

1) we have suffered one knockdown where the mast was in the water...beyond
vertical. Long story, not funny, but bottom line is that the boat emerged
intact except for the dodger.
2) when we broke the boom the first time, it broke at the boom bale for the
preventer. Second time, same place. Third time, I don't exactly know as when
we looked up, the boom was in 3 pieces! That's when I decided I needed to
redesign the preventer system on the new boom.
3) all boom breaks were forward of the bales (3) for the mainsheet. Hope
this helps. You might query other Passporters who have seen my rig as to why
they never have used it.
Billy Manana

[Michael Dobbs]

I am looking to sell my Monitor Windvane autopilot.  Removed it on day 2 of ownership of my P40 and I've never used.  Previous owner used extensively while cruising.
 
So, three questions:
 
1.  Anyone interested?  If so, e-mail me and I'll get you the specs.
2.  Anyone give me an idea of a "fair" price on this...even a price range would help if I decide to sell locally.
3.  Should I just consider letting it collect dust in the garage until i sell the boat to help or add value to that process?
 
Located in sunny San Diego. 
 
Love this group. 
 
Thanx!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ike a fin? and where was it spaced
> between the mast and the aft end of the boom?
>
> My attachment point is aft of the main sheet attachment, and I try to
> have it pretty snug and the angle just so, so there isn't any slack in
> any direction, so the boom can't get moving even if it gets back
> winded, but have never had it get back winded with any really massive
> force. And I suppose the danger of a backwinding in a big blow is why
> I'm asking the question. The pad eye it attaches to is not that far
> forward so in addition to a forward pull, I get a fairly vertical pull
> which holds the boom down, too. I'll study up on Dutchmen and rubber
> bands.
>
> What happens to booms when you get pushed over so far that the boom
> drags in the water and the preventer is there preventing? Ugh.
>
> Ian
>

[P. Sherwood]

Well, from a business point of view, if you are for sure not going to
use it you're better off selling it now than letting it sit in the
garage indefinitely. Inflation will make whatever dollars you can get
for it worth less in the future than they're worth today. Also, the
windvane will only lose value over time: it'll be that much older by the
time you go to sell the boat, it will still be "extensively used," it
will cost that much more to refurbish (again, inflation), and you won't
have extracted any value from it (by using it) in the meantime.

It's a deeply depreciated asset of (apparently) no functional value to
you. Get rid of it unless you perceive some historical or sentimental value.

Sorry; post-traumatic business-school mind-warp flashback. It's a sickness.

Phil
s/v Cynosure
Bocas del Toro

[Barry Kaplan]

I'm kinda interested. But lately I've been thinking that a Monitor is not going to work as well with (my soon to be) davits as, say a Windpilot or Cape Horn. The Monitor sticks out so far and so high I would have to mount my davits way way up there. 

-barry 

Mistress Quickly P42

[William Ennis]

Do not forget the Hydrovane. That's what we have and love it.

It's the only one that can be installed off-center: something to consider.

B.

[robert c young]

Isn’t there a famous used equipment/consignment place in san Diego (maybe sea chest marine based on a  Google search)? EBay? Craigslist?

 

A garage dust collector for future sale purposes appears to make the least sense (clutters garage and may or may not move the needle down the road). I would sell it and buy a share of something (Google, Facebook etc) and the future value of the financial  investment should be more than used steel. That being said, I often struggle with departing from previous acquisitions but I am getting better at it.

 

Regards

 

Bob

[Richard Hurt]

It really depends on the year and condition of the unit.  Anywhere from $1000 to $2000.  They hold their value pretty well, as a new one sells for about 4K.

Rgds

Rick

Perla, P-40 #14

 

From: passpor...@googlegroups.com [mailto:passpor...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Dobbs
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 2:57 PM
To: passpor...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Passport] Monitor WindVane Autopilot

 

I am looking to sell my Monitor Windvane autopilot.  Removed it on day 2 of ownership of my P40 and I've never used.  Previous owner used extensively while cruising.

[Michael Dobbs]

Minney's Surplus in Orange County/newport.  Hadn't thought of that....thanx.
 

---

Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 19:41:18 -0500
From: rcy...@optonline.net
Subject: RE: [Passport] Monitor WindVane Autopilot
To: ker...@msn.com; passpor...@googlegroups.com

[John Baudendistel]

Barry if your going ato cross oceans go for the monitor and a rollup,  John B.

-- Passport Owners Association http://passportyachts.org To post to the group, use "reply all" or...

[Donal Botkin]

View[+]Finder here. Based on meeting a lot of blue-water cruisers during a 5-year trip from San Francisco to NZ and back--and my own bias--windvane steering falls into the same category as sextant navigation. First, it is NOT an auto-pilot. No way, no how. The best it can do is maintain a course relative to the wind direction. Useless inshore or anywhere where winds are variable. Their only virtue is being quiet and requiring little power. I used an electronic autopilot with GPS (1999 vintage Raytheon) with a rate-gyro add-on plus computer nav charts and sailed single-handed on long passages. Wind conditions usually required engine power enough to keep the batteries up, but at most a couple of hours every two days was plenty. In today's prices that's about $4 per day for fuel. A $4000 windvane trades off for a lot of fuel for comfortable cruising. 

The only thing I would do differently today is to have a small wheel-autopilot servo in addition to the main actuator on the quadrant and use it when winds are light. Lower-power computer (iPad) and LED interior lights will take the power needed way down. 

Davits? Not my choice. I kept a light-weight Al RIB inverted on the foredeck while underway (it made an excellent splash-guard for the boat) and towed it behind while inshore. Today I have self-engineered vertical stowage for the dinghy that works well enough for sailing on the Bay. To paraphrase Mr. Clements, "my roughest ocean passage was an afternoon sail in San Francisco."

Donal

View[ + ]Finder

Donal Botkin

1 Peninsula Rd, Gate-B

Belvedere, CA. 94920

[Mary Heeney]

Hi all-

 

We loved our monitor windvane-- nothing sweeter than to get everything balanced and sail along with just the sounds of the boat moving through the water.  Magic!!!  Yes, you needed to pay attention to the wind and the sails, but I loved that awareness.    It seemed that the equipment failure that we heard about most often from other cruisers had to do with auto-pilots. The failures were from the full range of auto-pilots (even if you spent a lot of money on one).    We did have an auto-pilot that we used when we were motoring. 

 

We also didn’t want the burden of davits-- and rolled our dinghy up and stowed her on deck for passages.  This also worked nicely.

 

Lou can give you more of the details on the monitor windvane.  He really put a lot of thought into preparing for our cruise -- and received a lot of support from the Passport community.  We had an amazing trip-- thanks to all of his well thought out systems.

 

Okay- back to work for me! 

 

Best fishes-

 

 

 

Mary

[Barry Kaplan]

Bob, what kind of line do you use. I tried to setup a Wichard like system (using a rescue figure 8) but always had too much friction even with no tension on the line. I tried various lines I had lying around (double braid, regatta braid) and also a dynamic climbing rope. The climbing rope was 10mm ish so that was probably way too big. 

-barry, s/v kino

[rhp...@verizon.net]

The only line that works for me is the one that came with the brake. I do not know who makes it.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

---

From: Barry Kaplan <mem...@gmail.com>

Sender: Passpor...@googlegroups.com

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 15:03:33 -0800 (PST)

To: <Passpor...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: Michael Moradzadeh<cayen...@gmail.com>; <passpor...@googlegroups.com>; Ian Macrae<versin...@gmail.com>; <rhp...@verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Passport] Re: How do you rig your boom preventers?

Bob, what kind of line do you use. I tried to setup a Wichard like system (using a rescue figure 8) but always had too much friction even with no tension on the line. I tried various lines I had lying around (double braid, regatta braid) and also a dynamic climbing rope. The climbing rope was 10mm ish so that was probably way too big. 

-barry, s/v kino

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[Jim Melton]

Barry,

The line that Wichard supplies with their boom brake is said to be a special line in that it has a much higher melting point than most commonly available synthetic lines.  As you can imagine, a lot of (friction) heat can be generated when the brake stops an accidental gybe in high winds.  Rescue/climbing Figure 8 hardware can certainly handle the stresses of a person falling (even a long way) and sustained moderate heat, but I would want to research its ability to handle the much larger forces involved in handling a mainsail.  Also, the Figure 8 hardware doesn't provide the ability to "tune" the amount of friction available, which the Wichard system does.

At 2013-02-26 11:41, rhp...@verizon.net wrote:

The only line that works for me is the one that came with the brake. I do not know who makes it.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

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Jim Melton     SheltieJim at xmission dot com
1930 Viscounti Drive
Sandy, UT 84093-1063
Shelties since 1969; ASSA member since 1992
Please visit Sheltie Rescue of Utah, Inc. at
  http://SheltieRescueUT.org
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Support Sheltie Rescue and indulge yourself, too:
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[Barry Kaplan]

Hey Jim, 

My figure 8 is a Kong Rescue and is adjustable in a way similar to the wichard. Just loop the line over the ears for extra friction. The Kong is rated at 50kN (kilo newtons) That's 11,000+ lbs. My deck hardware and boom are breaking long before this fails. 

As an aside, climbing gear is always tested and rated for strength. Rarely do you see that in the "marine" grade crap we pay top dollar for. Indeed Wichard does not rate their brake for strength. 

[Jim Melton]

Barry,

Ahhh...thanks for the additional information.  I've actually never used the Kong Rescue, although I am aware of it.

Sorry for doubting!
   Jim

================
Jim Melton & Barbara Edelberg
"Dream SeQueL"
1982 Passport 40, hull# 18
http://DreamSeQueL.com
"BOAT: Break Out Another Thousand"

[Beller Family]

We used the same rescue 8 ring on Journey the last two years cruising in Mexico.  The challenge seems to be getting the end points of the line in the right position on the deck so that it tensions consistently through the gybe from side to side.

 

Jeff

S/V Journey

From: Jim Melton <Shelt...@xmission.com>
To: Barry Kaplan <mem...@gmail.com>
Cc: Passpor...@googlegroups.com; Barry Kaplan <mem...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Passport] Re: How do you rig your boom preventers?

--
--
Passport Owners Association http://passportyachts.org/

[Barry Kaplan]

Jeff, what kind and size line did you use?

[Beller Family]

Barry,

 

Not sure if it was the best choice or not, but I used a piece of old 11mm climbing rope.  My thinking was that the "stretchiness" would help with tensioning it and in the gybes.  We run one end to a spare winch under the dodger to tension it. 

 

Jeff

From: Barry Kaplan <mem...@gmail.com>
To: Passpor...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Beller Family <bel...@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Passport] Re: How do you rig your boom preventers?

--

[rhp...@verizon.net]

On Anthem,  with the Boom Brake, we keep the brake on the boom shackled to a control line that runs first aft to a turning block, then forward to the mast, down to the deck and aft to the cockpit.  A piece of bungee keeps the brake against the boom when not in use.

To use, we install a single line  athwartship from pad eyes just aft of the aft shrouds.  This line is of set length.  We use the adjustable control line to control tension from the cockpit.  It works well  to control jibes although I haven't tried it as a dead downwind preventer.

 

Bob Peahl

Anthem P40/70

 

On 02/27/13, Beller Family<bel...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

 

We used the same rescue 8 ring on Journey the last two years cruising in Mexico.  The challenge seems to be getting the end points of the line in the right position on the deck so that it tensions consistently through the gybe from side to side.

 

Jeff

S/V Journey

From: Jim Melton <Shelt...@xmission.com>
To: Barry Kaplan <mem...@gmail.com>
Cc: Passpor...@googlegroups.com; Barry Kaplan <mem...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:58 PM

Subject: Re: [Passport] Re: How do you rig your boom preventers?

Barry,

Ahhh...thanks for the additional information.  I've actually never used the Kong Rescue, although I am aware of it.

Sorry for doubting!
   Jim

At 2013-02-26 19:48, Barry Kaplan wrote:

Hey Jim,

My figure 8 is a Kong Rescue and is adjustable in a way similar to the wichard. Just loop the line over the ears for extra friction. The Kong is rated at 50kN (kilo newtons) That's 11,000+ lbs. My deck hardware and boom are breaking long before this fails.

As an aside, climbing gear is always tested and rated for strength. Rarely do you see that in the "marine" grade crap we pay top dollar for. Indeed Wichard does not rate their brake for strength.

================
Jim Melton & Barbara Edelberg
"Dream SeQueL"
1982 Passport 40, hull# 18
http://DreamSeQueL.com
"BOAT: Break Out Another Thousand"

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[Barry Kaplan]

Hmm, that is what I tried first. 10mm though. And it was just way too tight running thur the figure 8. Even when pretty slack. I guess I'll just get a some 8mm and do testing in a bit heavier wind.

Thanks Jeff

[Brian and Jen]

Hi Mike,

We are interested in installing a windvane on our PP40 (preferably a monitor). Do you still have your used unit available?

thanks

[Ian Macrae]

Hey, guys, please don't change the original subject. Start a new
thread if you want to talk about windvanes. I'd love to talk about
windvanes, but this was started as a thread on boom preventers, so
let's keep it that way. When a person is researching through past
threads it is better if the subject title reflects the substance of
the thread. Thanks.

Ian
S/V Freyja

[Jon Ash]

My 2 cents. I've installed a pad eye on each side of the extreme end of the
boom. Lines are terminated here and led forward to a spectra loop of about
10 inches diameter led thru the forward docking cleat and use a snatch block
for turning the lines back to the cockpit. When the boom is all way out a
good angle is maintained with the line and boom. Gybing is a little tricky
in that the working line must be eased while the lazy side is taken up. In
any kind of seaway I use this rig only as a preventer and to avoid loading
and breaking the boom. If gybing is a threat I add a tackle to either side
of the boom and lead it to the hardpoint on the bulwark amidships. Lots of
line but on a long rolly run you don't break anything including your
noggin.The spectra loop/snatch blocks do double duty as a down haul fairlead
for the pole when running the asymmetrical or when wing and wing.

S/V Caribbean Soul P40
Jon Ash
http://sv-caribbeansoul.com/

[Bill Schmidt]

Ian,
Having broken 3 booms jibbing, I have, years ago developed a
fool(me)proof, brick s---house preventer system that I have used in all
kinds of weather successfully for 20+ years. I have put this on this website
repetitively. To my knowledge only one person has ever,used this system
besides me in spite of lots of "Oh! I'm going to try that!" responses.
Rather than describe it again, I would note that it can be found on this
site. It doesn't require special lines, no guardian angel to watch over you
while trying to yet again set it right and, most importantly is hated by
boom replacement providers, but what the hell, there must be something wrong
with it, right?

Billy Manana
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Macrae" <versin...@gmail.com>
To: "Passport Owners" <Passpor...@googlegroups.com>

> --

> --
> Passport Owners Association http://passportyachts.org
> To post to the group, use "reply all" or send email to
> Passpor...@googlegroups.com
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[Michael Moradzadeh]

Bill's system is very cool, and makes gybes smooth and easy. SImply
put, he runs a pair of tackles from a hard point near the shrouds to the
mid-boom.

The only thing I'd change is make sure that some part of the system is
weaker than the boom. In a round-down, if the boom sticks in the water,
it can break. I have only put my boom in the water a few times, and
it's not super common on our boats, both by design and by how we sail.
Nonetheless, it would suck.

On Cayenne, we enjoyed a Dutchman for quite a while, but rigged a
Schmidt preventer for Pac Cup.

M

[Bill Schmidt]

Point taken. I've never put the boom end in the water to "test" the system.
B.

[Bill Casnovsky]

Bill Schmidt,

 

I just checked the new Passport Owners website and do not see your diagram/information about how you rig your preventer. Is there another wesite I need to visit?

 

Bill Caz.

s/v 1984 P40, Beau Navire

On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Bill Schmidt <bi...@windwitch.com> wrote:

Point taken. I've never put the boom end in the water to "test" the system.
B.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Moradzadeh" <m...@yachtpc.com>

To: <PassportOwners@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Friday, March 08, 2013 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Passport] How do you rig your boom preventers

Bill's system is very cool, and makes gybes smooth and easy.  SImply put, he runs a pair of tackles from a hard point near the shrouds to the mid-boom.

The only thing I'd change is make sure that some part of the system is weaker than the boom.  In a round-down, if the boom sticks in the water, it can break.  I have only put my boom in the water a few times, and it's not super common on our boats, both by design and by how we sail. Nonetheless, it would suck.

On Cayenne, we enjoyed a Dutchman for quite a while, but rigged a Schmidt preventer for Pac Cup.

M

On 3/8/2013 10:43 AM, Bill Schmidt wrote:

Ian,
   Having broken 3 booms jibbing, I have, years ago developed a fool(me)proof, brick s---house preventer system that I have used in all kinds of weather successfully for 20+ years. I have put this on this website repetitively. To my knowledge only one person has ever,used this system besides me in spite of lots of "Oh! I'm going to try that!" responses. Rather than describe it again, I would note that it can be found on this site. It doesn't require special lines, no guardian angel to watch over you while trying to yet again set it right and, most importantly is hated by boom replacement providers, but what the hell, there must be something wrong with it, right?
Billy Manana
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Macrae" <versin...@gmail.com>

To: "Passport Owners" <PassportOwners@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 8:44 PM
Subject: [Passport] How do you rig your boom preventers

Hey, guys, please don't change the original subject.  Start a new
thread if you want to talk about windvanes.  I'd love to talk about
windvanes, but this was started as a thread on boom preventers, so
let's keep it that way.  When a person is researching through past
threads it is better if the subject title reflects the substance of
the thread.  Thanks.

Ian
S/V Freyja



On Mar 6, 10:27 am, Brian and Jen <bnj...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Mike,

We are interested in installing a windvane on our PP40 (preferably a
monitor). Do you still have your used unit available?

thanks

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[Bill Schmidt]

No, it's there somewhere in the archives. Webmaster? Where are it???

B.

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[Michael Moradzadeh]

Very simple.  Just search on "Schmidt Preventer"

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/passportowners/preventer$20schmidt/passportowners/N3qK57G17Qo/yK6QT6bWzmEJ

On 3/8/2013 6:17 PM, Bill Schmidt wrote:

No, it's there somewhere in the archives. Webmaster? Where are it???

B.

----- Original Message -----

From: Bill Casnovsky

To: Bill Schmidt

Cc: Michael Moradzadeh ; Passpor...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, March 08, 2013 11:26 AM

Subject: Re: [Passport] How do you rig your boom preventers

Bill Schmidt,

 

I just checked the new Passport Owners website and do not see your diagram/information about how you rig your preventer. Is there another wesite I need to visit?

 

Bill Caz.

s/v 1984 P40, Beau Navire

On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Bill Schmidt <bi...@windwitch.com> wrote:

Point taken. I've never put the boom end in the water to "test" the system.
B.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Moradzadeh" <m...@yachtpc.com>

To: <Passpor...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Friday, March 08, 2013 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Passport] How do you rig your boom preventers

Bill's system is very cool, and makes gybes smooth and easy.  SImply put, he runs a pair of tackles from a hard point near the shrouds to the mid-boom.

The only thing I'd change is make sure that some part of the system is weaker than the boom.  In a round-down, if the boom sticks in the water, it can break.  I have only put my boom in the water a few times, and it's not super common on our boats, both by design and by how we sail. Nonetheless, it would suck.

On Cayenne, we enjoyed a Dutchman for quite a while, but rigged a Schmidt preventer for Pac Cup.

M

On 3/8/2013 10:43 AM, Bill Schmidt wrote:

Ian,
   Having broken 3 booms jibbing, I have, years ago developed a fool(me)proof, brick s---house preventer system that I have used in all kinds of weather successfully for 20+ years. I have put this on this website repetitively. To my knowledge only one person has ever,used this system besides me in spite of lots of "Oh! I'm going to try that!" responses. Rather than describe it again, I would note that it can be found on this site. It doesn't require special lines, no guardian angel to watch over you while trying to yet again set it right and, most importantly is hated by boom replacement providers, but what the hell, there must be something wrong with it, right?
Billy Manana
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Macrae" <versin...@gmail.com>

To: "Passport Owners" <Passpor...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 8:44 PM
Subject: [Passport] How do you rig your boom preventers

Hey, guys, please don't change the original subject.  Start a new
thread if you want to talk about windvanes.  I'd love to talk about
windvanes, but this was started as a thread on boom preventers, so
let's keep it that way.  When a person is researching through past
threads it is better if the subject title reflects the substance of
the thread.  Thanks.

Ian
S/V Freyja



On Mar 6, 10:27 am, Brian and Jen <bnj...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Mike,

We are interested in installing a windvane on our PP40 (preferably a
monitor). Do you still have your used unit available?

thanks

--
--
Passport Owners Association http://passportyachts.org

[Binari, Steve]

Bill: is this the description that you were thinking of? It is a 2005 post.
It sounds like both attachment points on the boom are very close to each
other (one at the vang attachment and one between the vang and the mast).
Am I reading that correctly?

Thanks.

Steve

(From the Sailnet List Server Achives):

Re: Downwind running rigging and preventers by: "R. Wm. Schmidt M.D."
2005-03-21 18:38:00


1. O.K., here's the story on the rigging of the topping lifts on the
Passport 40s: the topping lift was moved above the backstay tang at the
mast head after we, on Wind Witch, managed to snag the topping lift wire
under the main halyard shackle pin knob while sailing down wind. It's a
long story, but the result of such snagging was that the mainsail could
not be dropped without going up the mast under sail. The point of
attachment of the topping lift at the top of the mast (these were NOT
Forespar masts, but Kenyon masts) was too close to the exit site of the
main halyard, permitting the slack topping lift to droop down along side
the halyard shackle and get trapped. Weird, I know, but it happened
three times to us and I got tired of cranking Liddy up the mast while
sailing. Since the change, by moving the top end of the topping lift
further aft and away from the halyard exit gate, it never happened
again. Incidentally, it's a lot easier to winch some one up the windward
side of the mast when you are hard on the wind.

2. We love our preventer setup: first, we have a rigid vang. Second we
have the preventer on each side attached to the boom at the tang for the
boom vang. The preventer is double blocked between the padeye at the
rail and back to another block on the boom 2/3 of the way between the
boom vang and the gooseneck before running back to the cheek block in
the cockpit. This spreads out the shock of the mainsail trying to snap
jibe - something that otherwise is a great way to snap, or at least
bend, a preventered boom while sailing down wind. When we jibe, let me
tell you, it's really easy to control the boom. We have a 4:1 purchase
on it and can handle the line even in the high winds of S.F. Bay in the
summer. As a side benefit, I would note that we also have stopped
ripping off ventilators from the dorades when we jibe. Moreover, if the
mainsheet is fouled, it is easy to cleat the preventer, go forward to
clear the mainsheet, then resume the jibe - all under obsessive control.
When we are sailing down wind and the wind dies, we can immobilize the
boom by pulling in both the preventer and the mainsheet - no boom
slating at all!

[Michael Moradzadeh]

They are pretty much the same attachment point.

[Bill Schmidt]

Steve, Michael, et al:
This isn't the one I was thinking of, but it does the job plus talking
about the topping lift trap. So, OK.
The tang to attach the rigid boom vang has been moved aft as far as I
could. (It just clears the on deck life raft.) The pad eyes are forward of
the tang about 1/3 of the way toward the gooseneck.Both padeyes as well as
the tang of the boomvang are backed by long, internally welded backing
plates (all aluminum, I believe). The whole point is to spread out the force
points of the jibbing boom. The only other embellishment (which I have never
tried) is to use nylon line for the preventer lines.
Billy Manana

[Bill Casnovsky]

Guys,

 

I am sorry but I need a diagram to understand the preventer thing. When you get a chance, make one up or give me the link to one that exists.

 

thanks,

 

Bill Caz.

s/v Passport40, Beau Navire 

On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 11:42 AM, Bill Schmidt <bi...@windwitch.com> wrote:

Steve, Michael, et al:
   This isn't the one I was thinking of, but it does the job plus talking about the topping lift trap. So, OK.

    The tang to attach the rigid boom vang has been moved aft as far as I could. (It just clears the on deck life raft.) The pad eyes are forward of the tang about 1/3 of the way toward the gooseneck.Both padeyes as well as the tang of the boomvang are backed by long, internally welded  backing plates (all aluminum, I believe). The whole point is to spread out the force points of the jibbing boom. The only other eGuys, I am sorry mbellishment (which I have never tried) is to use nylon line for the preventer lines.

Billy Manana
----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Moradzadeh" <m...@yachtpc.com>

To: <PassportOwners@googlegroups.com>

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[Barry Kaplan]

FYI, just found a pic of using the figure 8...

[Ian Macrae]

Nice picture, Barry. I note that, relatively speaking, your
attachment is really close to the vang attachment. Why isn't it
better to attach the break system much further aft on the boom?
Wouldn't that spread the forces out better? The energies involved,
and the way to understand the forces applied to the boom in the event
of gyb, are a mystery to me, other than that, yes, I've had the
opportunity to take part in a few uncontrolled gybs in my time.

Ian

[Barry Kaplan]

Well, that is only the brake.

We have a permanently rigged preventers from the very aft of the boom. At the aft of the boom, padeyes with backing plates are on each side. An amsteel line (with bungee inside to keep it tought) is run from those padeyes to a clip forward on the boom. The main preventer lines run on each side of the boat from the cockpit to blocks at the bow (one each side) and then stowed at the shrouds. When prevent, we clip the preventer line to the line attached to the boom with a carabiner. 

I'll try to remember to post some pics.

[Barry Kaplan]

I should also point out that I never used that brake as I could not quite get the friction correct. If I ever get the friction correct I would probably look into moving it as far aft as possible. But I don't think I can move it any further aft (not sure though).

[Barry Kaplan]

And by "correction friction" I mean enough to slow the boom down but not stop it. Only the real preventers (from the aft of the boom) are intended to stop a gybe.

[Ian Macrae]

Makes sense. Thanks.

Ian